What do you think?

:crazy:

That has to be the dumbest question I've ever heard! Howard Sprague gay? Not a chance!

I just watched his intro episode the other day/Howard and the County Nurse. It begins with opie asking about Howard and saying he sure is different, pa. He throws a baseball just like Aunt Bee. Andy goes onto tell Opie yeah, he was always a little different in school, quiet and kept to himself Andy later tells Helen that he workd s next to the new county nurse, and acts like he doesn't know she exists. He is also hen-pecked by his mother especially in this episode. She tells Howard to be home on time as they are playing bridge with the Hendersons.

So I don't think Andy Griffith Show meant Howard to be gay, but by all of these references it's not a totally silly question.

Howard could be another Norman Bates.

Howard Sprague gay? What would his mother think?:lol: :crazy:

Why do you ask, Jim? Are you attracted to him?

He did seem pretty happy on some occasions. Nobody can be cheerful all the time.

Sheriff Andy Taylor

I didn't think he was gay, but I did think that he was semi-******** with Andy acting as sort of a "big brother" to him.

I think Howard was the naive type. Didn't he date and like woman on the show? I seem to remember that.

I think Howard was the naive type. Didn't he date and like woman on the show? I seem to remember that.

I remember it as well. I just thougt it was a funny question, so I gave a funny response bc his mother was so stuffy.;)

he was engaged to Millie Swanson.

Strange - Yes!
Gay - No

No...but it would have made the later seasons much more interesting if they had an episode about Howard Sprague coming out.

I just wish TV could go back to the time of Andy Griffith when there were absolutely no gay characters. If there were, they kept quiet about it, or made jokes about it like Three's Company. It seems that now TV has a love affair with the gays.

I dont think so

I just wish TV could go back to the time of Andy Griffith when there were absolutely no gay characters. Do the names Paul Lynde and Charles Nelson Reilly ring a bell? You think they were playing straight?? If there were, they kept quiet about it, or made jokes about it like Three's Company. Rather those characters were the butt :groucho of others' jokes. Aha, so the subject of homosexuality is OK as long as those characters are objects of ridicule, gotcha. pig: It seems that now TV has a love affair with the gays.
It only seems that way to you because of your high level of discomfort with gay people. Any depiction of them as real people is too much, isn't it? Back into the closet with 'em, right? Well, it's a new world in a new milleium of gay visibility and TV is only reflecting real life in that regard. :rainbow:

I do not think Howard is Gay

no because in Return to Mayberry he told Andy he liked the librarian over in Mount Pilot

It only seems that way to you because of your high level of discomfort with gay people. Any depiction of them as real people is too much, isn't it? Back into the closet with 'em, right? Well, it's a new world in a new milleium of gay visibility and TV is only reflecting real life in that regard. :rainbow:


You are probably correct, but people can be uncomfortable with something without being an awful thing. You know how some people are disgusted by, let's say, feet. That doesn't mean they dislike a person, they just don't want to have any interaction with what they consider to be disgusting feet. And my grandparents are man and woman, but they think it is disgusting when a boy and girl or man and woman make out in public or on tv.

With that said, I am heterosexual. I watched and like the show "Brothers and Sisters" for a while. I continued watching when I discovered one of the characters was gay. But I couldn't help but get that yucky feeling when he started kissing another man like I kiss my wife. I just couldn't stomach it. And I don't mean this to be funny, but it was an uncontrollable yuck feeling.

I always thought of Howard as some type of Mama's boy who never really had much going on except his job. He didn't even know much about fishing or anything fun.

With so-called sitcoms and reality shows today, it has everyone looking at the sexual orientation of just about everybody. Sad.

I think he was quiet and shy, but, not gay

Janice is correct - not only did he date Milly (can't remember the last name) but he was going to marry her. There was an ep where he asked Andy to be his best man and he and Helen had to travel by train with them to Milly's hometown where they were to be married.

Well they ended up having so many differences that they ended up calling off the wedding. Frankly, imho, I think Howard was probably a gay in denial but there's no way the writers would be going that "deep" into his character. I always thought of Howard as if not gay, then a mama's boy (I'd rather the gay angle since I can't stand "mama's boy"). Actually I just found the whole character too annoying. If an ep with Howard is on, I skip it.

I think Howard was the naive type. Didn't he date and like woman on the show? I seem to remember that.

Howard dated and proposed to Boysinger Bakery worker Millie Hutchins in the last season. She appeared in two last season episodes - "Howard's Main Event" and "Howard and Millie". The two called their wedding off at the last minute. Millie liked spontaneity; Howard didn't. Millie, for example, wanted to take off and honeymoon in Las Vegas ("live it up") while Howard had made honeymoon plans to attend "The King Arthur Pageant" and visit a tourist-type attraction a few miles from home. Millie wanted an expensive dinner with lots of variety in the dishes while Howard watched his wallet and ordered fishcakes.

Howard was homosocial rather than homosexual - he socialized with other men rather than women. I don't think he had an overwhelming interest in women but I don't think he had any homosexual interests in men either. Howard strikes me as non-sexual. I doubt if Howard had much of a sexual life. He just doesn't seem the type.

Here's Howard and Millie sharing one of the few 'passionate' kisses in the entire series. This is just after he proposes to her.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/housetruck/homil-1.jpg

He definitely wasn't gay in that show but if the show were on today, he'd be translated into a gay character. And that's what prompted Joe to ask the question, I think.

He definitely wasn't gay in that show but if the show were on today, he'd be translated into a gay character. And that's what prompted Joe to ask the question, I think.

If the show were re-produced today I'm not sure Howard would be gay. Gays don't live in small towns like Mayberry. Altho gays may be born in small towns like Mayberry, they go to college and move to big cities where educational, job, and cultural opportunities exist. I could see maybe a rich retired gay or lesbian couple buying a small hobby farm somewhere near Mayberry but for a bachelor county clerk to be gay? Naw. I can't see it. A single gay man Howard's age wouldn't be living in a place like Mayberry.

The simple answer is no! A bit wussy but he did back down Cylde when they both wanted Millie.

I have a paperback book (my edition released in 1989 I think) by Robert Kelley about The Andy Griffth show. In it he has interviews with most of the cast. Andy talks about the creation of "Howard" and about how the character evolved over time. After the original Howard was getting to be too pathetic (mama's boy) they let the character become more independent (thankfully!). This is when he finally gets his own place and his worrisome mother gets married.

One of my favorite characters is Floyd. His goofy mannerisms are jsut great!

("He assaulted me. And he hit me real hard".):lol:

There was not one single indication that he was attracted sexually to a member of the same sex. To the contrary, he dated and proposed to a woman.
Some have commented that he was homosocial. Well, no not really. He was introduced to a men's club by Andy, and was subsequently black balled by Goober. Howard was just sort of an odd bird, initially controlled by his domineering mother, but not to the point that he didn't have his own will. I think he was mainly just overly concerned about her following the death of his dad. I believe she eventually moves to another town. Then Howard attempts to adapt a sort of a playboy lifestyle, redecorating his home to 60's swinger and hosting a couples party. Don't recall what happens to their dates but he and Goober ended up dancing with Helen.
So, Howard wasn't exactly bound to his mother's apron strings. Remember when he moved to the tropics and lived the island life? That took balls. Maybe he wasn't a man's man, but he was quite successful at whatever he did. He caught the biggest fish in the lake. He bowled a 300 game. He was just sort of the nerdy intellectual type. That shouldn't be interpreted as being gay.

Don't be silly. There was no one gay on The Andy Griffith Show.....









https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3d/4b/0b/3d4b0bd3b645a1029dd52d291043e239--jim-nabors-jim-orourke.jpg

There was not one single indication that he was attracted sexually to a member of the same sex. To the contrary, he dated and proposed to a woman.
Some have commented that he was homosocial. Well, no not really. He was introduced to a men's club by Andy, and was subsequently black balled by Goober. Howard was just sort of an odd bird, initially controlled by his domineering mother, but not to the point that he didn't have his own will. I think he was mainly just overly concerned about her following the death of his dad. I believe she eventually moves to another town. Then Howard attempts to adapt a sort of a playboy lifestyle, redecorating his home to 60's swinger and hosting a couples party. Don't recall what happens to their dates but he and Goober ended up dancing with Helen.
So, Howard wasn't exactly bound to his mother's apron strings. Remember when he moved to the tropics and lived the island life? That took balls. Maybe he wasn't a man's man, but he was quite successful at whatever he did. He caught the biggest fish in the lake. He bowled a 300 game. He was just sort of the nerdy intellectual type. That shouldn't be interpreted as being gay.
Your post really describes the Howard character well. He was an oddball or odd bird but in a good sort of a way.

I worked with a guy who lived in a trailer park. I commented that I bet there were a lot of odd birds in the trailor park. His response, " No, there are no pets allowed."

Howard was a late bloomer. He really was taken with that boy's sister and wanted to dance with her all the time. He liked girls but seemed to like his single life best. Millie wanted to eat shrimp cocktail and go to Las Vegas and gamble "with money. Howard planned the honeymoon like he was sedated. Even old ladies get on a bus and gamble. I do think Howard was a hilarious character ie. bachelor bash and moving to the desert island.

I don't think the writers knew what to do with the Howard character making him bland at first but not too funny.

Eventually they made his squareness a tool to put him funny situations with his domineering mother, dates , and friends.
He was great in the bowling, island, another name pre-Howard insurance guy, shagethi, fish, bachelor pad episodes just off the top of my head.

Again, I cannot imagine any Hollywood writer intentionally creating a gay character in 1966. It would have been career (and show) suicide. This was WELL before the days of social commentary a la "All in the Family", etc. While I think audiences MAY have accepted a gay character, I don't think studios would have risked it at this point.

So, no, I don't think any of the writers intended Howard to be gay. What this question reveals is that a lot of people still equate a middle-aged bachelor who is maybe a bit too controlled by his mother, with being gay. It's a stereotype and I think we're "slowly" moving beyond it.

The same holds true for the Jo character on FOL. Despite all the speculation and theory, there is no evidence at ALL to support Jo being gay.

I'd argue that the reason Howard was written the way he was was that the writer's wanted him to be an anti-Barney. After the failure of Warren Ferguson, the writers figured they needed a character similar to Barney who Andy would be a big brother to. Since attempting to create a clone didn't work, they went the opposite direction with the character

I'd argue that the reason Howard was written the way he was was that the writer's wanted him to be an anti-Barney. After the failure of Warren Ferguson, the writers figured they needed a character similar to Barney who Andy would be a big brother to. Since attempting to create a clone didn't work, they went the opposite direction with the character


I don't think Howard was anti-Barney so much as anti-Mayberry. When looking to create a new character they made someone completely different. Howard was intelligent and educated, unlike the folksy common sense of Andy, who was the only intelligent male on the show. Howard was also somewhat sophisticated for Mayberry, but they made him so straight that he became pitiable. Then they broadened him a bit, in more ways than one.

Howard had several girlfriends in Mayberry RFD. In the first season he was after a girl, and insisted on getting in on her hobbies, one of which turned out to be skydiving. So Howard took it up, as uncharacteristic as that sounds. In the third season, he did a TV show called the Dream Spinner where he read poetry. Emmett and Goober played a joke on him, and sent him poetry, supposedly from a female admirer (but really copied from a feed calendar). A new waitress from the diner (played by the Charlene Darling actress) copied the poems, and Howard eventually started dating her (this was probably the funniest Mayberry RFD episode in an otherwise pretty poor follow-up series). So, no, there was no indication in either show that he was gay.

It's a shame Mayberry rfd wasn't better. Ken Berry's character, thought I like Ken Berry, never clicked.

Off topic: Ken Berry (I think he came into his own on Mama's Family) came off on MRFD as mister goody two shoes, who knew absolutely everything, like a male Dear Abby of Mayberry. He didn't even get mad when another guy flirted with, and kissed Millie, on the Palm Springs trip.

Off topic: Ken Berry (I think he came into his own on Mama's Family) came off on MRFD as mister goody two shoes, who knew absolutely everything, like a male Dear Abby of Mayberry. He didn't even get mad when another guy flirted with, and kissed Millie, on the Palm Springs trip.
I loved Mama's family. I thought it was a under appreciated sitcom gem. Ken Berry was brilliant in his character. Kind of using some of his f troop schtick in a southern way.

I believe he was married to Jackie Joseph aka ramona Wiley as she appeared in other classic sitcom terrific roles also.

Howard was the only replacement character that worked for me. Warren, Goober, Emmett...all were terrible.

But if you were to pick a gay character in Mayberry, it would probably be a tie between Howard and Floyd.

I believe he was married to Jackie Joseph aka ramona Wiley as she appeared in other classic sitcom terrific roles also.

Is that the one Ernest T called Romena?

This is an interesting topic, I think writers of that era sometimes presented stories on more than one level, one for the audience and one to amuse themselves. For lack of a better term they masked what they were really trying to say with a completely different story. A few years ago, I saw Howard's first episode where Helen is suggesting Andy set up a blind date for Howard, Andy referred to Howard as peculiar (maybe he used the word odd), years ago that was a code word for homosexual. All the signs of the era were there that suggest that's what was meant, he was in his 30's, he was unmarried and not looking, he lived and socialized with his mother.

This is an interesting topic, I think writers of that era sometimes presented stories on more than one level, one for the audience and one to amuse themselves. For lack of a better term they masked what they were really trying to say with a completely different story. A few years ago, I saw Howard's first episode where Helen is suggesting Andy set up a blind date for Howard, Andy referred to Howard as peculiar (maybe he used the word odd), years ago that was a code word for homosexual. All the signs of the era were there that suggest that's what was meant, he was in his 30's, he was unmarried and not looking, he lived and socialized with his mother.

Being in one's 30s an unmarried doesn't mean that person is gay, nor does socializing with one's own mother. Being 30 and married to a woman doesn't mean you're straight. In fact, the only gay person I know was married and has three kids. You know what makes a person gay? Having sex with another guy.

ALL of the Mayberry residents were obnoxious whack jobs. In fact, I discovered that while I like this show because of Andy, Opie and Aunt Bea, I generally dislike the scenes where the regular townspeople play a prominent role. Goober, Gomer, Floyd, Emmet, and especially Howard were obnoxious, stupid, and too much to take in anything but very small doses.

And if that obnoxious whiny cow was my mother, she'd have felt a bare-knuckled backhander in the mouth long before she got her first headache... God, I hate that Howard character. He wasn't gay, he was probably doing his mom.

Howard Sprague and Darrin Stephens are brothers. Want proof? They both have the same mother!

No, Howard was not gay.

Good Lord, no.

Howard was a bit of a mama's boy... ok, he was quite a mama's boy, but he was an ok joe otherwise.

This is so dumb. If you watched the show and you most likely did, he was in love with Millie. Case closed.

Howard was just very bookish, cultured and intellectual. His constant philosophy discussions with Goober were a recurring gag on Mayberry RFD.

What do you think?

:crazy:

In a town that small in the 1960s, if he was it wouldn't possibly be secret. At least some of the locals would have a diminutive view of his "uniqueness", and he would be a target for endless jokes.
The possibility that such a person could hold the job he had, given the era...seems highly unlikely. Given that he is obviously not independently wealthy, this presents a problem. Who would hire him?

He would have had to move to a larger city to get some shred of anonymity.

Just being honest, I always had more suspicion about Floyd.

In a town that small in the 1960s, if he was it wouldn't possibly be secret. At least some of the locals would have a diminutive view of his "uniqueness", and he would be a target for endless jokes.
The possibility that such a person could hold the job he had, given the era...seems highly unlikely. Given that he is obviously not independently wealthy, this presents a problem. Who would hire him?

He would have had to move to a larger city to get some shred of anonymity.

Just being honest, I always had more suspicion about Floyd.

Floyd, the Gay Deceiver. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I think Howard just marched to his own drummer, and for that, I kind of like the character. I feel the writing was better for him in Mayberry RFD. Personally, I hated Emmit. He just seemed like an old grouch set in his ways.

Floyd, the Gay Deceiver. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

https://i.imgur.com/tIiQA9H.png

I just watched his intro episode the other day/Howard and the County Nurse. It begins with opie asking about Howard and saying he sure is different, pa. He throws a baseball just like Aunt Bee. Andy goes onto tell Opie yeah, he was always a little different in school, quiet and kept to himself Andy later tells Helen that he workd s next to the new county nurse, and acts like he doesn't know she exists. He is also hen-pecked by his mother especially in this episode. She tells Howard to be home on time as they are playing bridge with the Hendersons.

So I don't think Andy Griffith Show meant Howard to be gay, but by all of these references it's not a totally silly question.

Awkward and shy, maybe, but definitely not gay.

Howard was just very bookish, cultured and intellectual. His constant philosophy discussions with Goober were a recurring gag on Mayberry RFD.

Who was the cute blonde at the bakery Howard had a thing for, was it Millie or an earlier, similar type girl?

Howard was willing to fight for her, even got punched in the nose in one case.

That was Millie, played by Arlene Golonka. Between TAGS and the later Mayberry RFD, she was referred to as Millie Hutchins and Millie Swanson.

That was Millie, played by Arlene Golonka. Between TAGS and the later Mayberry RFD, she was referred to as Millie Hutchins and Millie Swanson.

Same Millie?

She dumped Howard for Sam?

My interpretation was that Howard and Millie came to a mutual agreement that they were incompatible...!

^On TAGS they were going to be married, but that went sour on the train ride to her home town. They got on each others' last nerve.

Also to me his funniest episode (also off topic, sorry), is S3 Ep 15 of Mayberry RFD, Howard the Dream Spinner. In this episode he gets a TV show where he reads poetry, and becomes kind of snobby with friends. So Goober and Emmett play a joke and start sending him fake love notes which he reads on his TV show. Unfortunately still not available on DVD.

^On TAGS they were going to be married, but that went sour on the train ride to her home town. They got on each others' last nerve.

Also to me his funniest episode (also off topic, sorry), is S3 Ep 15 of Mayberry RFD, Howard the Dream Spinner. In this episode he gets a TV show where he reads poetry, and becomes kind of snobby with friends. So Goober and Emmett play a joke and start sending him fake love notes which he reads on his TV show. Unfortunately still not available on DVD.

Howard reading poetry and acting snobby... and unlike Goober he didn't even have to grow a beard.

:)

I would say no but very heavily controlled by his mother.

Howard was just a little shy with women. In the movie Return to Mayberry, when Andy arrives in town and meets Howard, he tells Andy rather sheepishly that he wants to ask a lady for a date, but is afraid because of his grey hair.

I found out that some women are attracted to grey, one told me "I like the grey!" the 2nd time I met her and she saw it on my face.

Maybe we can put forth that Howard was bisexual, as he did spend a lot of his time with guys.

Probably not gay, but definitely heavily controlled by his mother.

I'd say Howard could have possibly but not necessarily gay. In any case, while Andy seemed to get sometimes annoyed with him, he didn't consider him to be anything but harmless . Andy possibly may have just believed that since Howard didn't appear to attempt any trysts with any other men in Mayberry, there was no reason to not let Howard be .

As they say, a picture is often worth a thousand words:

https://i.imgur.com/nU5Af3t.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7EXzvpY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/FgmpYau.jpg

I'd say Howard could have possibly but not necessarily gay. In any case, while Andy seemed to get sometimes annoyed with him, he didn't consider him to be anything but harmless . Andy possibly may have just believed that since Howard didn't appear to attempt any trysts with any other men in Mayberry, there was no reason to not let Howard be .

This debate is still going?

Howard was a sheltered type, but not gay... he was definitely attracted to Millie.

Now, Gomer was almost certainly gay, correct?