One thing I just thought of that I'm not sure has been mentioned on here. We never see the duffel bag in any shots aside from when it was being wheeled out on the pallet jack. Where did it come from ?? Dale nor the masked man had a bag in their hands in any of the shots we see. Also it seems odd to me that none of you seem interested in Dale's mysterious wealthy friend who made his money in grey market dealings. Two of dales family members have mentioned this man and it seems to get very little attention. I believe it was dales daughter who stated this man moved to Florida around the time of the incident.

One thing I just thought of that I'm not sure has been mentioned on here. We never see the duffel bag in any shots aside from when it was being wheeled out on the pallet jack. Where did it come from ?? Dale nor the masked man had a bag in their hands in any of the shots we see. Also it seems odd to me that none of you seem interested in Dale's mysterious wealthy friend who made his money in grey market dealings. Two of dales family members have mentioned this man and it seems to get very little attention. I believe it was dales daughter who stated this man moved to Florida around the time of the incident.

Good point, Kane.

Not only did he have a mysterious wealthy friend who lived in Florida, but Dale's daughter also stated that some years ago, a body was found near where this mysterious friend lived that she had compared to Dale. The doctor who did this deemed that it was not Dale's body, however, that same doctor was later found to have been implicated in some very shady dealings and served prison time for it. I had mentioned to Dale's daughter on here, that she may want to have his body compared again since that doctor may have not been as honest as she originally thought.

Good point, Kane.

Not only did he have a mysterious wealthy friend who lived in Florida, but Dale's daughter also stated that some years ago, a body was found near where this mysterious friend lived that she had compared to Dale. The doctor who did this deemed that it was not Dale's body, however, that same doctor was later found to have been implicated in some very shady dealings and served prison time for it. I had mentioned to Dale's daughter on here, that she may want to have his body compared again since that doctor may have not been as honest as she originally thought.
I read about the body being found and am a little baffled why we have this certain doctor doing the analysis. Wouldn't law enforcement be handling this and get some DNA evidence as to who this was ? Unless of course it was le that asked this doctor to examine the body as he had performed dale's knee surgery. If that's the case then someone had a strong suspicion this body was dale. Is like to know what gave them the hint that this body found in Florida might be dale who went missing in PA?

Could this man be dale???? It's worth looking into http://doenetwork.org/cases/862umwa.html

I agree that it's not him either, but what an eerie set of circumstances. That's going to a lot of trouble to get rid of a body. :eek:

I just re-watched this segment and I picked up on something that I hadn't before. Stack mentions that while authorities were searching his truck, they found the keys in the ignition. In the part of the segment, the truck did not appear to be on so its odd that he would just put his keys in there.

I just re-watched this segment and I picked up on something that I hadn't before. Stack mentions that while authorities were searching his truck, they found the keys in the ignition. In the part of the segment, the truck did not appear to be on so its odd that he would just put his keys in there.

It's possible that he had an extra set made that he just left in the ignition. I've done that in the past, just had an extra ignition key in the ignition, because it gets to be annoying taking it off the key ring almost every day in the winter, to warm my car up for a few minutes.

I just re-watched this segment and I picked up on something that I hadn't before. Stack mentions that while authorities were searching his truck, they found the keys in the ignition. In the part of the segment, the truck did not appear to be on so its odd that he would just put his keys in there.

FWIW, I have a friend who has lived her entire life (except for the four years she went to college) in St Marys PA, about an hour south of Bradford (and where Dale Kerstetter disappeared from). When I went to her wedding a few years after we graduated from college, I was one of the last ones to arrive and amazed to see how many cars in the church parking lot had their windows all the way down and keys in ignition. I also observed this "behavior" quite frequently when visiting some of my former in-laws in the town of Holsopple PA, about three hours south of Bradford.

I grew up in NJ and trust me, I neither saw anyone do that in NJ, nor would I do it myself. But in more rural places, it seems to be a common behavior.

I am 60/40 Dale was in on it. His son said something that he may be in Canada or something like that if he had ever disappeared. Plus no body was ever found. He never returned after statue of limitations though. He may have died from something else or robber may have turned on him.

I believe that if he was in on it, he later regretted it, because it most likely cost him his life.

I think that the son's comments on unsolved mysteries were mainly due to his age at the time, and not wanting to believe that his dad could be dead.

I believe that if he was in on it, he later regretted it, because it most likely cost him his life.

I think that the son's comments on unsolved mysteries were mainly due to his age at the time, and not wanting to believe that his dad could be dead.

Good theory.

I've never personally believed he was in on it.

I feel he was killed shortly thereafter.

I've never personally believed he was in on it.

I feel he was killed shortly thereafter.

Hi Jenna Nicole! :wave:

We're happy to have you here!

To say he was not in on it is to assume that:
1.Someone else new the layout of the plant
2. Someone knew the plant had platinum
3. Someone knew exactly where that platinum was
4. Someone knew how to remove the platinum
5. Someone knew security would be lax
6. Someone knew the surveillance cameras where not being monitored.
7. Someone knew where to find all the tools they needed to remove platinum
8. It was well known that dale was armed. Yet someone did not fear him shooting them and keep in mind dales gun was never found.

Dale is one of the few people with all the knowledge needed to pull this off. He wasn't stupid though and knew the people at the plant would be on to him. This is why he was sure to walk in front of the cameras with masked man. The only question for me is... did he get away and have a new identity or was he double crossed and killed ?

To say he was not in on it is to assume that:
1.Someone else new the layout of the plant
2. Someone knew the plant had platinum
3. Someone knew exactly where that platinum was
4. Someone knew how to remove the platinum
5. Someone knew security would be lax
6. Someone knew the surveillance cameras where not being monitored.
7. Someone knew where to find all the tools they needed to remove platinum
8. It was well known that dale was armed. Yet someone did not fear him shooting them and keep in mind dales gun was never found.

Dale is one of the few people with all the knowledge needed to pull this off. He wasn't stupid though and knew the people at the plant would be on to him. This is why he was sure to walk in front of the cameras with masked man. The only question for me is... did he get away and have a new identity or was he double crossed and killed ?

Isn't it just as likely that an ex-employee or even current employee besides Dale would know all of the things listed above, meaning Dale still could conceivably not have been involved?

ETA: Dale's daughter has posted earlier in this thread that a new employee was supposed to be monitoring the hourly check-ins that Dale was supposed to make that night, and Dale missed the midnight check-in all the way up to 5 in the morning when it was finally reported. The new employee didn't know the procedure, so they assumed nothing was worth reporting. Doesn't this put an end once and for all about Dale's involvement? If he was in on it, wouldn't he still want to call in hourly (until he escaped) to not alert the plant that something was up? What would have happened had the new employee notified someone after the first missed check-in?

ETA: Dale's daughter has posted earlier in this thread that a new employee was supposed to be monitoring the hourly check-ins that Dale was supposed to make that night, and Dale missed the midnight check-in all the way up to 5 in the morning when it was finally reported. The new employee didn't know the procedure, so they assumed nothing was worth reporting. Doesn't this put an end once and for all about Dale's involvement?

I agree. If Dale was in on it, he either paid off the new employee to not check in or to say he didn't check in (highly unlikely that he would keep up this story for 30 years) or he got insanely lucky that the new employee forgot to follow procedure. Just seems a bit too far fetched.

Have any of you ever worked in security type jobs? There are all kinds of written rules that they ignore. Especially in a wharehouse where the threat of robbery is very very low. The fact that the no one was alerted to dale not checking in does not surprise me in the least bit. Also if it was another employee would that not really narrow down the list of suspects for law enforcement ? Did another employee pull off the theft, murder Dale then somehow move the platinum on the black market ? Would it have not been obvious if some Corning employee all of a sudden had a bunch of money to through around

Have any of you ever worked in security type jobs? There are all kinds of written rules that they ignore. Especially in a wharehouse where the threat of robbery is very very low. The fact that the no one was alerted to dale not checking in does not surprise me in the least bit. Also if it was another employee would that not really narrow down the list of suspects for law enforcement ? Did another employee pull off the theft, murder Dale then somehow move the platinum on the black market ? Would it have not been obvious if some Corning employee all of a sudden had a bunch of money to through around

Understood but if that new employee had alerted his superiors that he couldn't find Dale that night and Dale was in on it, it could have completely screwed up his getaway. He would have had to plan for that. Just seems far fetched to me.

Understood but if that new employee had alerted his superiors that he couldn't find Dale that night and Dale was in on it, it could have completely screwed up his getaway. He would have had to plan for that. Just seems far fetched to me.
Right but dale understood how the system works an knew he'd have time to get away. If the robbery was pulled off by another employee then would he not know of the cameras? Why walk right in front of them? Someone had to know that camera they walked in front of was not being watched at the time. Dale knew that. Did the masked man? If he's an employee most likely yes. If dale was in on it then certainly yes.

If the robbery was pulled off by another employee then would he not know of the cameras? Why walk right in front of them?

Don't you think there was a reason this guy wore a mask? Plus we're not accounting just how long this process would've been. The guy would have had to have cut the platinum out, and then carried it from the kiln to the exits and into a vehicle. I figure that would take well over an hour to accomplish this. All it would take was just one missed check-in for the employee to notify someone and then the whole plan goes up in smoke. My point was simple: if Dale knew that he was supposed to check-in hourly, why would he not check-in every hour (during this heist, if he was involved) to make sure that Corning didn't suspect anything was wrong? By him not checking in, that increases the chances of him getting caught. Which makes me think he was an unwilling participant, and not calling in and looking at the camera was his way of trying to alert help.

Understood but if that new employee had alerted his superiors that he couldn't find Dale that night and Dale was in on it, it could have completely screwed up his getaway. He would have had to plan for that. Just seems far fetched to me.
Right but dale understood how the system works an knew he'd have time to get away. If the robbery was pulled off by another employee then would he not know of the cameras? Why walk right in front of them? Someone had to know that camera they walked in front of was not being watched at the time. Dale knew that. Did the masked man? If he's an employee most likely yes. If dale was in on it then certainly yes.

I'm not going to scroll back through 35 pages of comments, but I think it was a disgruntled ex-employee. Dale was killed either during the commission of the offense or shortly thereafter and they hid his body as to have the perfect patsy for the crime.

I write off the son's comments as wishful thinking.

I'm not going to scroll back through 35 pages of comments, but I think it was a disgruntled ex-employee. Dale was killed either during the commission of the offense or shortly thereafter and they hid his body as to have the perfect patsy for the crime.

I write off the son's comments as wishful thinking.
Ok well if it was a disgruntled ex employee then this man knowlingly walked in front of cameras, killed Dale without leaving a trace of evidence, disposed of dales body and turned the platinum into cash on the black market without raising any suspicions what so ever. Seems far fetched. If you think it was an employee (which I agree it almost had to be) then how do you rule out Dale?i think Dale being armed and his gun missing is a pretty telling piece of evidence.

Ok well if it was a disgruntled ex employee then this man knowlingly walked in front of cameras, killed Dale without leaving a trace of evidence, disposed of dales body and turned the platinum into cash on the black market without raising any suspicions what so ever. Seems far fetched. If you think it was an employee (which I agree it almost had to be) then how do you rule out Dale?i think Dale being armed and his gun missing is a pretty telling piece of evidence.

Since you think Dale was involved, doesn't everything you just posted above apply to Dale too? He walked in front of the camera, sans mask, stole the platinum in time to avoid detection, sold the platinum without any problems, and then disappeared with out a trace without ever contacting his family. And how exactly does Dale being armed and the gun missing prove anything? It's just as likely that he heard or saw something, and went to get his gun from his truck before returning and the intruder surprised him and then disarmed him.

Ok well if it was a disgruntled ex employee then this man knowlingly walked in front of cameras, killed Dale without leaving a trace of evidence, disposed of dales body and turned the platinum into cash on the black market without raising any suspicions what so ever. Seems far fetched. If you think it was an employee (which I agree it almost had to be) then how do you rule out Dale?i think Dale being armed and his gun missing is a pretty telling piece of evidence.

Even if it were Dale, an ex employee or some random homeless guy, they would ALL have to sell the platinum on the black market in order to recoup some funds. Whoever did it, did it without raising suspicions or being caught so I'm not sure how that is far fetched for it to not be Dale since it would have had to be done no matter who stole it.

Even if it were Dale, an ex employee or some random homeless guy, they would ALL have to sell the platinum on the black market in order to recoup some funds. Whoever did it, did it without raising suspicions or being caught so I'm not sure how that is far fetched for it to not be Dale since it would have had to be done no matter who stole it.
And again this goes back to dale having the shady friend who left for Florida around the same time of the theft. This guy might just have the connections to move the platinum and we know he left the area.

Since you think Dale was involved, doesn't everything you just posted above apply to Dale too? He walked in front of the camera, sans mask, stole the platinum in time to avoid detection, sold the platinum without any problems, and then disappeared with out a trace without ever contacting his family. And how exactly does Dale being armed and the gun missing prove anything? It's just as likely that he heard or saw something, and went to get his gun from his truck before returning and the intruder surprised him and then disarmed him.
No because if Dale had no involvement then he must have been killed in the plant right? I mean did he just stand there while this masked intruder removed the platinum ? If he was killed in the plant where is the blood evidence? If he was shot or stabbed there would be plenty of blood and tissue. But there is none. The only way that dale wasn't killed in the plant is if he was cooperating. On the surveillance video we see dale and masked man meeting and talking. Dale did not appear startled in anyway. Looks like they were having a casual conversation.

No because if Dale had no involvement then he must have been killed in the plant right? I mean did he just stand there while this masked intruder removed the platinum ? If he was killed in the plant where is the blood evidence? If he was shot or stabbed there would be plenty of blood and tissue. But there is none. The only way that dale wasn't killed in the plant is if he was cooperating. On the surveillance video we see dale and masked man meeting and talking. Dale did not appear startled in anyway. Looks like they were having a casual conversation.

If they knocked him over the head and knocked him out, there wouldn't be blood. If they smothered him, there wouldn't be blood. If they strangled him, there wouldn't be blood.

There are lots of ways to get someone out of a building without leaving blood evidence behind.

This thread is massive, and I didn't read through it, so I'm sure my theory has already been said but.....

I wonder if it was an ex-employee who approached Dale to cooperate. Some employees were laid-off, and one of the managers in the segment said that the masked man knew exactly where to go, what to get, how to cut, etc etc, leading it to be someone who worked/used to work there. I can't imagine a random burglar pulling up to a factory to steal some platinum randomly, it seemed plan. Whoever was wearing that mask knew what time Dale would be there.

Now the question was Dale in on it, or a victim. I personally think Dale was in on it. In the segment the daughter mentions that Dale had multiple sources to go to for money, and didn't need to steal, but what if Dale was a prideful man? Prideful people rarely going to someone else for something, especially their children.

We know Dale took a huge pay cut, so it's possible that he had exhausted all of monetary assets, was completely broke, and was too prideful to let his daughters know. Also, a man like Dale might've felt weak in front of his son asking for money from his family, it seems weird, but some people are like that.

The big controversy is over the recorded security footage, but to me Dale's posture in the camera exudes confidence. Look at his body language; his chest is poked out, his arms are by his side, and he looks smugly at the camera, he seemed too relaxed, and confident. I do think he was killed shortly afterwards though.

I also wonder if Dale was threatened to help. Perhaps someone had dirt on Dale, or threatened his family in a way that made him participate, and he was dispatched of shortly after helping. I guess I'm not too sure on whether he is guilty or not.

This case reminds me of Office Space. Some employees get fired, and the guy who still works there talks them into "getting back" at the company by stealing some valuables.

No because if Dale had no involvement then he must have been killed in the plant right? I mean did he just stand there while this masked intruder removed the platinum ? If he was killed in the plant where is the blood evidence? If he was shot or stabbed there would be plenty of blood and tissue. But there is none. The only way that dale wasn't killed in the plant is if he was cooperating. On the surveillance video we see dale and masked man meeting and talking. Dale did not appear startled in anyway. Looks like they were having a casual conversation.

Not necessarily. Masked guy holds Dale at gunpoint, takes him to an area out of the camera range and wacks him over the head and knocks him out. And the video is a re-enactment, so we'll never know just how accurate it really was. I wouldn't be adverse to the idea that Dale was involved if he had resurfaced or at the very least contacted his family at some point. He never did, which tells me he died on the night of the heist.

I wouldn't be adverse to the idea that Dale was involved if he had resurfaced or at the very least contacted his family at some point. He never did, which tells me he died on the night of the heist.

Dale could've been involved, and his partner could've killed him right after the heist because he wanted more for himself. Perhaps he thought Dale couldn't be trusted in the long run. Just because he never contacted his family doesn't mean he's not guilty.

Dale could've been involved, and his partner could've killed him right after the heist because he wanted more for himself. Perhaps he thought Dale couldn't be trusted in the long run. Just because he never contacted his family doesn't mean he's not guilty.

That would make him a murder victim, no?

That would make him a murder victim, no?

Obviously, but look what you wrote:

I wouldn't be adverse to the idea that Dale was involved if he had resurfaced or at the very least contacted his family at some point. He never did, which tells me he died on the night of the heist.

You said that you doubt Dale was involved because he never contacted his family, or resurfaced. My response was that he could've been involved and still got murdered. How did you not get that?

You said that you doubt Dale was involved because he never contacted his family, or resurfaced. My response was that he could've been involved and still got murdered. How did you not get that?

I doubt Dale wasn't involved for many reasons, including that one. Your entire premise is that Dale could've helped with the heist but was then murdered by his partner, almost writing it off as a "see Dale was involved!". If he was involved and was killed by a possible partner, that makes him a victim regardless. So if he wasn't murdered by his partner, but was still involved, where is he at and why hasn't he resurfaced?

I doubt Dale wasn't involved for many reasons, including that one. Your entire premise is that Dale could've helped with the heist but was then murdered by his partner, almost writing it off as a "see Dale was involved!". If he was involved and was killed by a possible partner, that makes him a victim regardless. So if he wasn't murdered by his partner, but was still involved, where is he at and why hasn't he resurfaced?

I never said it didn't make him a victim? I just said it was possible he could've been in on it, and was murdered. You keep bringing up this victim stuff.

The where is he at, and why hasn't he resurfaced questions had absolutely nothing to do with my reply to you, but you seem desperate enough to try to prove some point so I'll indulge. Dale could've fled to another state, country, city, and died of natural causes. He could've escaped to isolation to Canada, or else where and was murdered and hidden. He could be there now. I don't know. My point was he could've been the brains behind the idea, and was killed later by a greedy or untrusting accomplice. I don't get your point.

My point was he could've been the brains behind the idea, and was killed later by a greedy or untrusting accomplice. I don't get your point.

Going under the assumption that Dale was involved:

-why didn't surveillance footage capture him during any of the shots "in the tank" where the platinum is located?
-why didn't Dale call his routine security check-ins into the phone center, to not arouse suspicion?
-if he stole the platinum to pay off his debt, why did he not pay off his debt?
-where is he at today?

He's seen in one shot with the masked man. That's it. I find it hard to believe that masked man is going to be okay with doing the brunt of the work while Dale's off doing God knows what. Plus, if Dale was avoiding the tank area to not make it seem like he was helping with the heist, why did he not call to check in every hour until the heist was over?

Going under the assumption that Dale was involved:

-why didn't surveillance footage capture him during any of the shots "in the tank" where the platinum is located?
-why didn't Dale call his routine security check-ins into the phone center, to not arouse suspicion?
-if he stole the platinum to pay off his debt, why did he not pay off his debt?
-where is he at today?

He's seen in one shot with the masked man. That's it. I find it hard to believe that masked man is going to be okay with doing the brunt of the work while Dale's off doing God knows what. Plus, if Dale was avoiding the tank area to not make it seem like he was helping with the heist, why did he not call to check in every hour until the heist was over?

My mentioning of Dale being involved could mean that he was the one who came up with the idea. He could've approached the masked man for help and was killed at the scene. I'm not saying Dale hauled platinum out of the factory on his back, and ran down the street into a shroud of mystery.

My accusation of Dale being involved is being overblown. I'm not saying he did everything. I'm just saying he could've been involved in something minor, like it being his idea and he was overthrown.

He's seen in one shot with the masked man. That's it. I find it hard to believe that masked man is going to be okay with doing the brunt of the work while Dale's off doing God knows what. Plus, if Dale was avoiding the tank area to not make it seem like he was helping with the heist, why did he not call to check in every hour until the heist was over?

Dale could've easily been keeping watch out in the getaway vehicle. I mean his face was already shown on the camera, so it is weird, but Dale could've been the look out guy, while the masked man got the platinum and left.

Think about it. We saw Dale once on camera, and never again. There wasn't evidence suggesting foul play inside of the factory. Dale could've been on that dolly, or was in the truck keeping an eye out for anyone coming in.

Calling in every hour while a robbery takes place, and not reporting it directly to authorities is stupid. You don't think they would've known platinum was missing while Dale was on duty? If he reported in every hour, and someone had stole 250K worth of platinum, Dale would've gotten in a lot of trouble. That means he wasn't doing his job.

Dale could've easily been keeping watch out in the getaway vehicle. I mean his face was already shown on the camera, so it is weird, but Dale could've been the look out guy, while the masked man got the platinum and left.

Why not take his brand new pickup truck, or his cigarettes, or his day pack? The only thing he takes with him besides the platinum is his gun. Why?

Calling in every hour while a robbery takes place, and not reporting directly to authorities is stupid. You don't think they would've known platinum was missing while Dale was on duty? If reported in every hour, and someone had stole 250K worth of platinum, Dale would've gotten in alot of trouble. That means he wasn't doing his job.

If he reported in every hour no one would know anything was wrong at the plant. Especially if he was involved. He didn't check-in for a full 5 hours before anything was noticed. If he was involved, he got lucky.

Why not take his brand new pickup truck, or his cigarettes, or his day pack? The only thing he takes with him besides the platinum is his gun. Why?



If he reported in every hour no one would know anything was wrong at the plant. Especially if he was involved. He didn't check-in for a full 5 hours before anything was noticed. If he was involved, he got lucky.

To answer both of these, to seem more like a hostage/victim. I don't know if Dale is guilty or not, but if he is, then him taking his truck would make him seem guilty. Having stolen platinum, him on camera, and his truck missing would definitely seem like he took the platinum and ran. If he leaves everything behind (cigarettes included) he seems more like an unsuspecting victim.

But him leaving everything behind COULD support what I was saying about him being behind the idea, but was killed before it actually took off. If Dale was behind it, it's possible he did plan to take some things, but he could've been unexpectedly killed in the factory, making taking anything impossible.

You bring up a good point about the check-in times, but if Dale was a "victim" then checking in every hour like nothing was wrong, while platinum was being stolen would look fishy. He makes his rounds, checks in like everything is fine, while a good chunk of platinum is missing, would make him look suspicious. They would've figured out the platinum was stolen on his shift. So, if he doesn't check-in because of a burglary, then he looks more credible. He didn't have time to check-in because someone had broken in, and took him hostage (security footage). He looks more credible.

Was this one of those cases where police asked UM not to show the original security tapes?

I know Dale's daughter was posting at one time, did we ever found out what was on the tapes police didnt let us see?

Not necessarily. Masked guy holds Dale at gunpoint, takes him to an area out of the camera range and wacks him over the head and knocks him out. And the video is a re-enactment, so we'll never know just how accurate it really was. I wouldn't be adverse to the idea that Dale was involved if he had resurfaced or at the very least contacted his family at some point. He never did, which tells me he died on the night of the heist.
Dale's daughter said the footage we were shown was almost identical to the real thing. I agree that dale most likely was killed shortly after but I think it was a double cross.

If they knocked him over the head and knocked him out, there wouldn't be blood. If they smothered him, there wouldn't be blood. If they strangled him, there wouldn't be blood.

There are lots of ways to get someone out of a building without leaving blood evidence behind.
Ok that is all possible but that's too assume that this one man in the mask was able to kill Dale ( who was most likely armed) with his bare hands basically

Ok that is all possible but that's too assume that this one man in the mask was able to kill Dale ( who was most likely armed) with his bare hands basically

The masked man could've drew a gun on Dale first, and then took his gun. The masked man could've surprised attacked Dale when he wasn't looking either by a blunt attack or strangulation.

I will say this about Dale's possible involvement. There's a reason that UM did not (or maybe were not allowed) show the real surveillance camera footage. We also know how UM tends to tilt a segment in certain directions. Dale's boss seemed very confident that he was in on the heist. Part of me wonders if there was more to those surveillance tapes than what was let on during the segment.

During the segment, as it shows the masked man pushing a dolly out of the plant with a bag on it, Stack mentions that it could have contained the platinum or Dale's body. Well if it did contain the platinum, then where was Dale? If it contained Dale's body, then where was the platinum? Was this camera the only one that showed the exit?

I will say this about Dale's possible involvement. There's a reason that UM did not (or maybe were not allowed) show the real surveillance camera footage. We also know how UM tends to tilt a segment in certain directions. Dale's boss seemed very confident that he was in on the heist. Part of me wonders if there was more to those surveillance tapes than what was let on during the segment.

During the segment, as it shows the masked man pushing a dolly out of the plant with a bag on it, Stack mentions that it could have contained the platinum or Dale's body. Well if it did contain the platinum, then where was Dale? If it contained Dale's body, then where was the platinum? Was this camera the only one that showed the exit?

Could it have been both? Platinum stacked on the back, Dales body tucked up in the front.

Dales body could've been laying ontop of the platinum

Could it have been both? Platinum stacked on the back, Dales body tucked up in the front.

Dales body could've been laying ontop of the platinum

I guess it could have been but the bag didn't look nearly full enough to contain the platinum AND Dale's body. Plus the fact that Stack made it seem like it could have only contained one or the other, I figured that the video may have shown that as well.

I guess it could have been but the bag didn't look nearly full enough to contain the platinum AND Dale's body. Plus the fact that Stack made it seem like it could have only contained one or the other, I figured that the video may have shown that as well.

Wasn't the video a reenactment? Plus like you said, the show liked to make the show go in one direction. Also, making it seem like it could only be one makes it seem more like a mystery, and less cut and dry. They wanted that mysterious angle for the show. I'm sure both could've fit.

Actually, the more I think about it, I wonder if the bag was big enough to have laid ontop of Dale?

The masked man could've drew a gun on Dale first, and then took his gun. The masked man could've surprised attacked Dale when he wasn't looking either by a blunt attack or strangulation.
No that's impossible because we see the man talking to then walking with dale

I will say this about Dale's possible involvement. There's a reason that UM did not (or maybe were not allowed) show the real surveillance camera footage. We also know how UM tends to tilt a segment in certain directions. Dale's boss seemed very confident that he was in on the heist. Part of me wonders if there was more to those surveillance tapes than what was let on during the segment.

During the segment, as it shows the masked man pushing a dolly out of the plant with a bag on it, Stack mentions that it could have contained the platinum or Dale's body. Well if it did contain the platinum, then where was Dale? If it contained Dale's body, then where was the platinum? Was this camera the only one that showed the exit?
Dale's daughter said that they re enacted the footage to make it more clear and less grainy. She said it was an accurate re enactment

No that's impossible because we see the man talking to then walking with dale

How is it impossible? We see them talking and walking, then we see the masked man by himself. After the footage of them walking, Dale could've been easily sneak attacked.

The masked man could've drew a gun on Dale first, and then took his gun. The masked man could've surprised attacked Dale when he wasn't looking either by a blunt attack or strangulation.
No that's impossible because we see the man talking to then walking with dale

No that's impossible because we see the man talking to then walking with dale

No it isn't.

Anytime between when those two walked off camera Dale could've been attacked. Am I misreading something or am I being trolled?

No that's impossible because we see the man talking to then walking with dale

The first shot of the masked man in the re-enactment shows him walking somewhat nervously looking around for something or someone (probably Dale). Then the man starts walking towards the camera and out of frame.

Here's (https://s30.postimg.org/z41vl531t/intruder.png) a screenshot from the segment. The red arrow shows where the masked man is first shown and then his path of movement. The white arrows show the places where he looks around nervously for something.

The next shot (screenshot here) (https://s29.postimg.org/pe14fk1nr/daleintruder.png) shows Dale and the masked man walking together from the right just out of frame. Dale is the red circle, the masked man is the white, and the black line is the direction they walk in before coming to a stop. This (https://s24.postimg.org/4eox2cilh/daleintruder2.png) is where Dale and the masked man appear to be conversing for less than 5 seconds before walking together following the direction of the black line. The plant personnel manager interviewed in the segment says:

The first thing I saw was a masked man in the back of the plant in the one area. When I saw the masked man on the tape, I was very alarmed. At first I thought well obviously this person, there's been some foul play, Dale's involved in foul play and he probably is missing. And then uh, Dale Kerstetter came back and met this masked person in the back of the plant. I guess I would say I had a very empty feeling in my stomach, I said, 'what on Earth'. And then as I continued to review the tapes and I saw the masked person come back out and go up to the tank area, then I was extremely anxious because at that time I realized that not only did we have a missing employee, we also, there was a good possibility that we had missing platinum in the plant.

The last time the cameras, described in the segment as "3 security cameras that monitored the factory around the clock", picked up Kerstetter was when he and the masked man were walking together and when he looks into the camera. The personnel manager says that after that shot, he sees "the masked person come back out and go up to the tank area", meaning that the masked man comes back into frame (not shown on the re-enactment) and heads back up to the tank area. So where the hell was Dale at during this crucial time if he was supposedly helping the masked man? And what was he doing?

This (https://s27.postimg.org/96p1liwmb/daleintruder3.png) is the last shot of the intruder, shown wheeling something out of the factory. He comes from the top right corner (from the same place that he and Dale were first seen walking together) and continues downward out of frame. A legal briefing from when Dale's daughters tried to get Dale legally declared dead mentions that the missing platinum was an amount small enough that 1 person could have easily carried it out of the plant by themselves. There's no question in my mind that the bag was Dale's body. He was a small guy, but it still would be difficult for one man to move his body. Using the pallet jack makes this easier.

I've been thinking about this case a lot recently and I just had an off the wall theory. What if Dale was the intended target all along, and the platinum being stolen was simply a red herring to make it look like a robbery gone wrong?

The first shot of the masked man in the re-enactment shows him walking somewhat nervously looking around for something or someone (probably Dale). Then the man starts walking towards the camera and out of frame.

Here's (https://s30.postimg.org/z41vl531t/intruder.png) a screenshot from the segment. The red arrow shows where the masked man is first shown and then his path of movement. The white arrows show the places where he looks around nervously for something.

The next shot (screenshot here) (https://s29.postimg.org/pe14fk1nr/daleintruder.png) shows Dale and the masked man walking together from the right just out of frame. Dale is the red circle, the masked man is the white, and the black line is the direction they walk in before coming to a stop. This (https://s24.postimg.org/4eox2cilh/daleintruder2.png) is where Dale and the masked man appear to be conversing for less than 5 seconds before walking together following the direction of the black line. The plant personnel manager interviewed in the segment says:



The last time the cameras, described in the segment as "3 security cameras that monitored the factory around the clock", picked up Kerstetter was when he and the masked man were walking together and when he looks into the camera. The personnel manager says that after that shot, he sees "the masked person come back out and go up to the tank area", meaning that the masked man comes back into frame (not shown on the re-enactment) and heads back up to the tank area. So where the hell was Dale at during this crucial time if he was supposedly helping the masked man? And what was he doing?

This (https://s27.postimg.org/96p1liwmb/daleintruder3.png) is the last shot of the intruder, shown wheeling something out of the factory. He comes from the top right corner (from the same place that he and Dale were first seen walking together) and continues downward out of frame. A legal briefing from when Dale's daughters tried to get Dale legally declared dead mentions that the missing platinum was an amount small enough that 1 person could have easily carried it out of the plant by themselves. There's no question in my mind that the bag was Dale's body. He was a small guy, but it still would be difficult for one man to move his body. Using the pallet jack makes this easier.

All brilliantly written, and what I was trying to convey to the other poster.

I've been thinking about this case a lot recently and I just had an off the wall theory. What if Dale was the intended target all along, and the platinum being stolen was simply a red herring to make it look like a robbery gone wrong?

I actually had a very similar theory, but mine led to it being more of an inside job. The two managers took no time to throw Dale under the bus as a crappy employee, which is bizarre considering that one of their workers was possibly murdered, and his family would be in the same segment that would be broadcast nationwide. Not very nice considering that he could've been murdered in your facility, and was possibly innocent.

This brings me to my point; did Dale have tenure? Meaning, was it nigh impossible to fire Dale? If he was such a bad employee, to the point you smeared his name in a broadcast of him missing, why wasn't he fired beforehand? They really didn't like, nor trust Dale, so I'm wondering if there was some way he couldn't have been fired, but they wanted him gone? No one else was brought up as a suspect, but they were sure quick enough to blame Dale. Alot of other employees were fired and cut, but Dale was demoted. Could lend credibility to him having tenure for working there for 27 years. Maybe something to do with his stock options?

I still think taking over an hour to steal platinum is risky, and a little ridiculous, and only an inside person would know about it, and how to do it. Outside of wanting to fire Dale but couldn't, I don't know any other motive to have him killed, unless he knew shady insider dealings.

Unless of course they just wanted the insurance money, and used Dale as a fall guy. They knew his debt, and pay cut problems, so he was an easy "dummy" if you will. Perhaps he knew the company was in on it, and his look into the security camera was more of a "really?"

The first shot of the masked man in the re-enactment shows him walking somewhat nervously looking around for something or someone (probably Dale). Then the man starts walking towards the camera and out of frame.

Here's (https://s30.postimg.org/z41vl531t/intruder.png) a screenshot from the segment. The red arrow shows where the masked man is first shown and then his path of movement. The white arrows show the places where he looks around nervously for something.

The next shot (screenshot here) (https://s29.postimg.org/pe14fk1nr/daleintruder.png) shows Dale and the masked man walking together from the right just out of frame. Dale is the red circle, the masked man is the white, and the black line is the direction they walk in before coming to a stop. This (https://s24.postimg.org/4eox2cilh/daleintruder2.png) is where Dale and the masked man appear to be conversing for less than 5 seconds before walking together following the direction of the black line. The plant personnel manager interviewed in the segment says:



The last time the cameras, described in the segment as "3 security cameras that monitored the factory around the clock", picked up Kerstetter was when he and the masked man were walking together and when he looks into the camera. The personnel manager says that after that shot, he sees "the masked person come back out and go up to the tank area", meaning that the masked man comes back into frame (not shown on the re-enactment) and heads back up to the tank area. So where the hell was Dale at during this crucial time if he was supposedly helping the masked man? And what was he doing?

This (https://s27.postimg.org/96p1liwmb/daleintruder3.png) is the last shot of the intruder, shown wheeling something out of the factory. He comes from the top right corner (from the same place that he and Dale were first seen walking together) and continues downward out of frame. A legal briefing from when Dale's daughters tried to get Dale legally declared dead mentions that the missing platinum was an amount small enough that 1 person could have easily carried it out of the plant by themselves. There's no question in my mind that the bag was Dale's body. He was a small guy, but it still would be difficult for one man to move his body. Using the pallet jack makes this easier.

I've been thinking about this case a lot recently and I just had an off the wall theory. What if Dale was the intended target all along, and the platinum being stolen was simply a red herring to make it look like a robbery gone wrong?

Nice work here. I didn't realize that the stolen platinum was so little that you could carry it out. Since that is the case, Dale's body was definitely in that bag. Why else would the masked intruder wheel out a bag on a dolly?

Nice work here. I didn't realize that the stolen platinum was so little that you could carry it out. Since that is the case, Dale's body was definitely in that bag. Why else would the masked intruder wheel out a bag on a dolly?

Told you.

Wasn't the video a reenactment? Plus like you said, the show liked to make the show go in one direction. Also, making it seem like it could only be one makes it seem more like a mystery, and less cut and dry. They wanted that mysterious angle for the show. I'm sure both could've fit.

I actually had a very similar theory, but mine led to it being more of an inside job. The two managers took no time to throw Dale under the bus as a crappy employee, which is bizarre considering that one of their workers was possibly murdered, and his family would be in the same segment that would be broadcast nationwide. Not very nice considering that he could've been murdered in your facility, and was possibly innocent.

I honestly thought they did this to avoid a possible lawsuit from Dale's family. If they painted him as a marginal and bitter employee, it would be easier to believe (at the time) that he was involved in stealing the platinum.

This brings me to my point; did Dale have tenure? Meaning, was it nigh impossible to fire Dale? If he was such a bad employee, to the point you smeared his name in a broadcast of him missing, why wasn't he fired beforehand? They really didn't like, nor trust Dale, so I'm wondering if there was some way he couldn't have been fired, but they wanted him gone? No one else was brought up as a suspect, but they were sure quick enough to blame Dale. Alot of other employees were fired and cut, but Dale was demoted. Could lend credibility to him having tenure for working there for 27 years. Maybe something to do with his stock options?

He worked there for 27 years. And Corning was cutting corners prior to his disappearance, and he went from a trades worker to a security guard, which cost him $5,000-7,000 salary cut. I'm assuming his tenure with the company is what saved his employment.

I still think taking over an hour to steal platinum is risky, and a little ridiculous, and only an inside person would know about it, and how to do it. Outside of wanting to fire Dale but couldn't, I don't know any other motive to have him killed, unless he knew shady insider dealings.

I'm just throwing a off the wall theory out there. It could have been someone who worked with Dale who wanted him dead for whatever reason and then saw stealing the platinum as an added bonus. Or to throw off the fact that Dale was the target.

http://mckeancountycoldcases.weebly.com/uploads/5/6/2/3/56234407/7165212_orig.jpg

Found this newspaper article. Don't know if it's been posted in here or not, but they do say that the masked man entered the plant 10 minutes after Dale's shift began. Which would coincide with the re-enactment showing Dale sitting in the cafeteria and noticing the masked man before going out to confront/find him.

I honestly thought they did this to avoid a possible lawsuit from Dale's family. If they painted him as a marginal and bitter employee, it would be easier to believe (at the time) that he was involved in stealing the platinum.

Possibly, but the family could've still sued. Even if Dale was a crappy employee who stole platinum, they still didn't check-in, or send authorities to see if anything was wrong. Crappy employee/thief or not, they still failed their duty, and that has no bearing on if Dale was abysmal or not. In fact it looks even worse for them, because if you have a security guard who you don't trust, and you think he would do something like this without any hesitation, then checking-in would seem more like a priority. I know they had a new guy who didn't know protocol, but that looks really fishy, and a huge coincidence.

He worked there for 27 years. And Corning was cutting corners prior to his disappearance, and he went from a trades worker to a security guard, which cost him $5,000-7,000 salary cut. I'm assuming his tenure with the company is what saved his employment.

And that's exactly my point. They were cutting corners, and trying to save money, and they wanted Dale gone, but couldn't fire him because of his tenure. He took a huge pay cut, and was demoted, so maybe they were hoping he'd quit, but didn't, hence framing and doing away with him.

I was just throwing a off the wall theory out there. It could have been someone who worked with Dale who wanted him dead for whatever reason and then saw stealing the platinum as an added bonus. Or to throw off the fact that Dale was the target.

Going through all of that trouble to steal platinum just to kill Dale seems like too much work. Way easier to just pop him before he goes into the building in the dark parking lot.

because if you have a security guard who you don't trust, and you think he would do something like this without any hesitation, then checking-in would seem more like a priority. I know they had a new guy who didn't know protocol, but that looks really fishy, and a huge coincidence.

Great point.

Going through all of that trouble to steal platinum just to kill Dale seems like too much work. Way easier to just pop him before he goes into the building in the dark parking lot.

Yeah I know it's an out there theory, just throwing it out there. I've also considered an ex-employee who was pissed at both Dale and Corning and decided to kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak.

Told you.

Told you? I've been firmly on board that Dale wasn't involved since day 1. I just played devil's advocate yesterday with the opposing view.

Great point.



Yeah I know it's an out there theory, just throwing it out there. I've also considered an ex-employee who was pissed at both Dale and Corning and decided to kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak.

I actually agree with that theory, it makes alot of sense. If we are to assume that Dale is innocent, then an ex-employee with an axe to grind makes sense. He obviously knew Dale's hours, seeing as how he came in 10 minutes after Dale arrived. He could've also known about the new security guard who wouldn't check-in properly, seeing as he seemed quite comfortable on the security footage, and took his sweet time, even bothering with a dolly.

That leaves us with motive. Why would an ex-employee hate Dale, and Corning? Perhaps Dale getting to keep his job, while he was cut? Especially since Dale seemed to be "lackluster"? Maybe it was just an attack on Corning for getting fired, but they knew Dale was an easy fall guy?

Told you? I've been firmly on board that Dale wasn't involved since day 1. I just played devil's advocate yesterday with the opposing view.

Ha, nah. I mean't that the body, and platinum were both in/on the bag, and dolly. It was possible he had both.

http://mckeancountycoldcases.weebly.com/uploads/5/6/2/3/56234407/7165212_orig.jpg

Found this newspaper article. Don't know if it's been posted in here or not, but they do say that the masked man entered the plant 10 minutes after Dale's shift began. Which would coincide with the re-enactment showing Dale sitting in the cafeteria and noticing the masked man before going out to confront/find him.

Do we know if Dale's family ever collected on his insurance or pension plan?

Ha, nah. I mean't that the body, and platinum were both in/on the bag, and dolly. It was possible he had both.

Gotcha.

I just had no idea that the platinum amount was so small that a normal person could carry it out. I always felt like it was a large amount of platinum. I wonder how much the stolen platinum was worth?

Found something interesting on the Unsolved site. Isn't this the ex of Dale's daughter who posted here? The last name matches up with the daughter from the segment. Seems petty, but weird:

Found something interesting on the Unsolved site. Isn't this the ex of Dale's daughter who posted here? The last name matches up with the daughter from the segment. Seems petty, but weird:

Well, Penny posts on here from time to time, so I'm sure she will see this.

Well, Penny posts on here from time to time, so I'm sure she will see this.

I saw his posts too. He said Dale's friend seemed sketchy, now he's blaming Dale? Weird.

I saw his posts too. He said Dale's friend seemed sketchy, now he's blaming Dale? Weird.

Oh is this the same guy who posted at the beginning of this thread? If so, that's quite a 180 he did with his opinion.

Gotcha.

I just had no idea that the platinum amount was so small that a normal person could carry it out. I always felt like it was a large amount of platinum. I wonder how much the stolen platinum was worth?

The article said $250,000 worth.

It would make sense to me that $250k worth of platinum wouldn't actually be that much. My engagement ring has a platinum band and I was told by the jeweler that the platinum was actually worth more than the three diamonds in the ring.

So hypothetically, if the small amount of platinum that it takes to make up a ring retails at over $1,000, how much platinum would it take to get $250k worth? Not that much. I'm with everyone else that's posted-- it's definitely Dale in the bag.

Oh is this the same guy who posted at the beginning of this thread? If so, that's quite a 180 he did with his opinion.

That's what I'm thinking. She refers to him as "J", and they seemed to be married at the time of the incident, seeing as how she had the last name Baptiste in the segment. Unless someone is trolling.

FWIW, I found this (http://www.theglassfoundry.com/170lbinvestedsicfurnace.htm) page which talks about glass furnaces and platinum pipe/tubing is mentioned.

http://www.theglassfoundry.com/images/170furnace/rtype.jpg

That little piece of pipe (silver piece by the tip of the pen) is roughly the size of a ruler and is extremely thin. The white piece around the silver wire is essentially the insulation. Boring, I know, but this tiny piece of platinum wire is worth an estimated $200 today. So I'm thinking that the total amount of platinum taken out of a glass furnace wouldn't be that much to equal up to $250,000.

Nice work here. I didn't realize that the stolen platinum was so little that you could carry it out. Since that is the case, Dale's body was definitely in that bag. Why else would the masked intruder wheel out a bag on a dolly?
Could it have been so that you don't see dale walk out? Could it have been staged to look like Dale's body? I mean if indeed he wants to hide out it wouldn't look to good if he's seen walking out with the masked man. I also think dale was on the pallet but suspect he was alive.

I actually agree with that theory, it makes alot of sense. If we are to assume that Dale is innocent, then an ex-employee with an axe to grind makes sense. He obviously knew Dale's hours, seeing as how he came in 10 minutes after Dale arrived. He could've also known about the new security guard who wouldn't check-in properly, seeing as he seemed quite comfortable on the security footage, and took his sweet time, even bothering with a dolly.

That leaves us with motive. Why would an ex-employee hate Dale, and Corning? Perhaps Dale getting to keep his job, while he was cut? Especially since Dale seemed to be "lackluster"? Maybe it was just an attack on Corning for getting fired, but they knew Dale was an easy fall guy?
If that's the case would that not provide a very defined group of suspects for the police to investigate? How many disgruntled ex employees with the exact knowledge to pull of the crime do we have here ?

If that's the case would that not provide a very defined group of suspects for the police to investigate? How many disgruntled ex employees with the exact knowledge to pull of the crime do we have here ?

Those are my thoughts exactly, why wasn't a more thorough search for other employees done? This person knew where everything was, and knew exactly what to do, this wasn't a random outsider. As to why this search wasn't that extensive, I don't know. I feel like the investigators spent too much time trying to connect this to Dale, rather than investigating everyone in the company with the knowledge who could've done this. Even one of the managers said it was someone who was familiar with the company, given how he operated.

I wouldn't be surprised if the police just said that Dale was in on it, and stopped there.

Could it have been so that you don't see dale walk out? Could it have been staged to look like Dale's body? I mean if indeed he wants to hide out it wouldn't look to good if he's seen walking out with the masked man. I also think dale was on the pallet but suspect he was alive.

Dale being alive on the dolly is a good theory, but there's never even been a fake sighting of him, so if it was him on the dolly then I'm sure he was dead. It's possible he could've escaped, and died elsewhere, but I'm not sure. However since there was were no signs of foul play, it's possible he was alive in that bag, and was killed elsewhere.

I recently found an article about this case at newspapers.com. The UM segment gives off the impression that they immediately checked the security tape and figured out the platinum was missing on the same day Dale was discovered missing, but the article says this didn't happen until four days later! Even though a police dog had already searched the room containing the furnace, no one had any inkling that there was a theft until they saw the masked intruder on the security tape and then double-checked the furnace to see that its platinum lining was missing.

Apparently, this furnace was only turned on a handful of times per year to make glass rods, which is why Dale didn't ordinarily check the area as part of his normal security rounds. This adds credence to the idea that the masked man was a former employee with inside knowledge of the plant since no outsider would have known to check that room for valuable platinum. I still think Dale probably recognized the intruder's voice, which is why he felt the need to kill him.

I recently found an article about this case at newspapers.com. The UM segment gives off the impression that they immediately checked the security tape and figured out the platinum was missing on the same day Dale was discovered missing, but the article says this didn't happen until four days later! Even though a police dog had already searched the room containing the furnace, no one had any inkling that there was a theft until they saw the masked intruder on the security tape and then double-checked the furnace to see that its platinum lining was missing.

Apparently, this furnace was only turned on a handful of times per year to make glass rods, which is why Dale didn't ordinarily check the area as part of his normal security rounds. This adds credence to the idea that the masked man was a former employee with inside knowledge of the plant since no outsider would have known to check that room for valuable platinum. I still think Dale probably recognized the intruder's voice, which is why he felt the need to kill him.

I kind of lean towards Dale having a hand in this, but was double-crossed. On the tape he seemed comfortable enough with helping the criminal out, and they seemed to be in cohorts with meeting at the back of the plant, and seemed to be leading the guy in the security footage, but then he looks directly in the camera. I don't know what to think

I kind of lean towards Dale having a hand in this, but was double-crossed. On the tape he seemed comfortable enough with helping the criminal out, and they seemed to be in cohorts with meeting at the back of the plant, and seemed to be leading the guy in the security footage, but then he looks directly in the camera. I don't know what to think

Yes, since there have been no sightings of Dale in 30 years, the only logical way he could have been in on this is if he was double-crossed and killed afterward. From what I've heard about the guy's character, however, I don't find that likely.

Yes, since there have been no sightings of Dale in 30 years, the only logical way he could have been in on this is if he was double-crossed and killed afterward. From what I've heard about the guy's character, however, I don't find that likely.

Yeah, it definitely doesn't seem to be in his character given his age, his smoking habit, and his family, but money makes people do crazy things. He didn't seem to be in the best of shape to have done this, but maybe he was forced to participate, or approached someone to help him. Maybe a co-worker or one that was recently fired talked Dale into this, and assured him that he would take a little platinum to get back at the company, split some with Dale, and that would be all.

Given Dale's demotion, and pay cut, maybe he thought they'd do a little harmless scheme, split the cash, and no one would say a word. But Dale was double-crossed, and killed. This person showed up right after Dale went on duty. They were in cohorts, or he knew the plant's schedule very well.

Edit: New theory The more I think about it, the more I think Dale's truck is a big clue. His keys were in the ignition, and most of his belongings were in it, sans his lunchbox and paper. What if Dale had set this up, and was playing the role of the victim? His lunchbox being a decoy, but his keys were left in the truck so that he could make a speedy get a way after the heist.

That could explain why the stranger wore a mask, but Dale didn't. What if the plan was to purposely have them walk infront of the camera, so Dale could look like a hostage, rather than an accomplice? He had plan on escaping right after the heist (hence his keys in the ignition) as a possible kidnapped victim, but he was actually in on it. Could also explain why his scent was near the furnace, he was coaching the suspect, and possibly keeping an eye out, then as Dale wasn't looking, he was attacked and thrown in that bag on the dolly.

But to mirror what Kane said above, perhaps Dale was alive in the bag, but unconsciously. There was no blood, or signs of the struggle at the scene, so maybe Dale was alive (part of the heist to be hidden in the bag) or he was knocked unconscious at the furnace. As they got outside, the masked man took Dale's gun from the holster in his truck and killed him with it at a later location. There was also no blood outside of the plant, or signs of a struggle. Dale had to have been killed elsewhere, unless he was attacked in a way that wouldn't shed blood (snapped neck, blunt trauma to head, etc)

Such an intriguing case. I find the keys in the ignition of Dale's truck particularly weird. Presumably he got to work, then locked his car and went in to the factory for his shift? So whether he was in on the crime or not, why would his keys be in his car either way?

Unless this is an instance of "things were so laid-back in _____, people regularly left their keys in their car and their front doors unlocked"

Such an intriguing case. I find the keys in the ignition of Dale's truck particularly weird. Presumably he got to work, then locked his car and went in to the factory for his shift? So whether he was in on the crime or not, why would his keys be in his car either way?

Unless this is an instance of "things were so laid-back in _____, people regularly left their keys in their car and their front doors unlocked"

I thought about the "it's laidback, so I don't need to lock up" theory myself. I just find that you're guarding a large plant in the middle of the night, and you leave your keys in the ignition?

Another thing that makes the truck scene sketchy, is the fact that his gun was missing from his holster. Was he known to take his gun without the holster?

I wonder if they made a plan to take Dale's car as part of the heist, so Dale left the keys in the ignition for the plan, but he was either killed or kidnapped, and they didn't take his vehicle as planned.

Such an intriguing case. I find the keys in the ignition of Dale's truck particularly weird. Presumably he got to work, then locked his car and went in to the factory for his shift? So whether he was in on the crime or not, why would his keys be in his car either way?

Unless this is an instance of "things were so laid-back in _____, people regularly left their keys in their car and their front doors unlocked"

I figured either Dale escaped from the masked man and made a dash to his truck before being overtaken at gun point (which could also explain the missing gun and the empty holster found in his truck), or Dale figured since it was the overnight shift in a fairly rural area, it would be safe to leave the keys in the ignition.

I figured either Dale escaped from the masked man and made a dash to his truck before being overtaken at gun point (which could also explain the missing gun and the empty holster found in his truck), or Dale figured since it was the overnight shift in a fairly rural area, it would be safe to leave the keys in the ignition.

Solid theory about Dale escaping. However, do you think if Dale was an actual hostage they would give him enough time alone to be able to run? He was 50, and a heavy smoker, I can't see him making a dash to his truck that fast. And if we believe that was wasn't in on it, the burglar was directly behind Dale in the security footage, and Dale's scent was at the furnace, I wonder if he had an opportunity to escape?

In watching the original episode, the representitive from the glass company was more than eager to paint Dale in a bad light. They were more than happy from the very start to pin this all on Dale. Im sorry, but nowhere in Dales history does he come across as a criminal matermind who was conspiring to to pull of this caper. This is a clear cut case of the glass company not wanting to take responsibilty for lack security at such a large plant with many moving parts. The man in the mask was most likely a current employee and had no problems killing Dale that same night. RIP Dale.

In watching the original episode, the representitive from the glass company was more than eager to paint Dale in a bad light. They were more than happy from the very start to pin this all on Dale. Im sorry, but nowhere in Dales history does he come across as a criminal matermind who was conspiring to to pull of this caper. This is a clear cut case of the glass company not wanting to take responsibilty for lack security at such a large plant with many moving parts. The man in the mask was most likely a current employee and had no problems killing Dale that same night. RIP Dale.

That's why a very small part of me think this was an inside job. I don't understand saying how Dale saved lives/the company, worked there for over 20 years, and then they just destroyed his reputation. Either they were already fighting with Dale, which led to him getting killed, or they were afraid of being responsible for his death. I mean if it wasn't an inside job, and Dale had nothing to do with this, then that was down right disgusting. Either those tapes showed how guilty Dale was, or they were covering themselves.

The man went missing/killed, and all you can talk about how bad of an employee he was? Something is wrong with that picture. However, if they did have a hand in killing Dale, then saying that he was a good employee would've made more sense, because that way they wouldn't look too suspicious. Man this is weird.

Remember, the glass company was fighting Dales family on getting him declared legally dead. They wanted the finger pointed straight at Dale for as long as possible. Why is that???

Remember, the glass company was fighting Dales family on getting him declared legally dead. They wanted the finger pointed straight at Dale for as long as possible. Why is that???

That's why I hinted at an inside job. If it isn't, blaming Dale, and only Dale, isn't going to get your platinum back. It's weird to just blame Dale, and suspect no one else considering they just laid off a bunch of employees. Unless there was more on the security tapes that they didn't show.

Either they wanted to frame him because they had him killed, tried to save their own skin from being irresponsible, or there was more evidence that pointed at Dale that we don't know about. They came out with all guns blazing, so they're hiding something. They really wanted to hammer home how much Dale sucked.

Im not of the view that the glass company had anything directly to do with Dales death. My view is that after Dale went missing and there was a robbery at the plant, their operation of it would be brought into question. If Dale was an innocent bystander doing his job, an investigation into the safetly procedures at the facility may have led to lawsuit from Dales family. By putting the blame squarely on Dale, there is no digging into the company and their lax security. Therefore, no wrongful death lawsuit. Thats why they fought to keep Dale being declared legally dead. If hes not dead, he is part of the conspiracy and his family cant sue. Pretty sick stuff on their part. The Corning representive in the UM episode was a dispicable corporate puke. Im entitled to say that because I work as an investigator at a large multinational corporation and I deal with corporate pukes all day long.

Im not of the view that the glass company had anything directly to do with Dales death. My view is that after Dale went missing and there was a robbery at the plant, their operation of it would be brought into question. If Dale was an innocent bystander doing his job, an investigation into the safetly procedures at the facility may have led to lawsuit from Dales family. By putting the blame squarely on Dale, there is no digging into the company and their lax security. Therefore, no wrongful death lawsuit. Thats why they fought to keep Dale being declared legally dead. If hes not dead, he is part of the conspiracy and his family cant sue. Pretty sick stuff on their part. The Corning representive in the UM episode was a dispicable corporate puke. Im entitled to say that because I work as an investigator at a large multinational corporation and I deal with corporate pukes all day long.

Well Dale had tenure, and couldn't be fired, which is why his pay was cut, and he was demoted. A lot of people got fired but Dale, that's because they legally couldn't get rid of him, that's why I said the company may have been behind it.

Yeah, you're right about the company dodging a lawsuit, however, the family still could've sued. First off, there's not enough evidence to say that Dale was guilty. Secondly, the jury could've called into question why the police wasn't sent to the factory, because Dale didn't do his hourly check-ins indicating that something was wrong. If the security guard had called the police when Dale didn't check in perhaps things would've been different. I also find it odd how the security guard was "new" and didn't know to follow protocol right after Dale was demoted and went missing.

I agree with you though, but the bashing of Dale just made them look suspicious, and odd. I wonder what you said about the company blaming Dale so they couldn't be sued is why they didn't release all of the footage. I wonder if that footage showed that Dale wasn't an accomplice, and they knew releasing it could mean a definite lawsuit.

I love the way that even though Dale was most likely deceased as a result of this heist the company still took pot shots at him.

I'll keep an eye out for Dale in Australia!

I believe this was - and may well still be - a very solvable case. If I had the resources and was sufficiently motivated I would love to get the actual statements and police reports of the time, a copy of the CCTV - if one survives - and a list of people in and around the company at that time. I think you could possibly still crack this thing Moneypenny!
The actual timeline to the case - the police documented timeline - would be absolutely critical. From the amateur sleuth end there are just too many unknowns to really nail it. It's doubly frustrating because the questions were very answerable in 1987, and perhaps are even so now.
I say it's the timeline because it's the key to both crimes - the theft of the platinum, and the likely murder of Dale Kerstetter,

September 12 1987 is a Saturday. Dale Kerstetter goes to work the night securty shift at his workplace of some 27 years. I understand that's 10:30 -7, on his own, in an enormous factory.

Okay - questions. What is the purpose of Kerstetters presence? I understand Kerstetter is a machine man - a worker. On this thread it's alluded to "he works the shift for the overtime". The context of Dale Kerstetters presence in that victory is important. Did he want to be there? Was it customary for him to do so? How many times had he performed this role before? Was it something he genuinely didn't object to doing?
Who did Kerstetter talk to when arriving at work? How was his demeanour? It is stated in a comptenarenous newspaper report that ten minutes into his shift the security cameras show Kerstetter and a masked man.
Once again the location of the cameras in relation to the layout would be in a police report and invaluable. "Later" same article reports "the masked man is seen alone near the furnace". How much later I'd like to know?
In the family statement in the initial attempt to have Dale declared dead, this timeline is completely different with it being stated that the masked man arrived between twelve and one. Where the times known? What times are factual?

How many people did Dale relieve when he arrived on that Saturday night? Is Sunday the only day without a production run?
When Dales relief turned up what actually happened? How soon were the police contacted, how soon was the footage checked and when was the platinum discovered to be missing?
Was the platinum "chainsawed" out as stated in the news report? Or was it done with a hacksaw as shown on the UM reconstruction?
Was Dale in the habit of carrying his gun with him? How widely known where the camera locations?
How many people typically were at the plant on the Sunday? By taking Kerstetter but leaving his lunch box and keys etc it meant initially the fear was Kerstetter had hurt himself in the facility and was lying incapacitated. Was that the intention and if so where does that leave the CCTV footage?

A lot of unknowns. If the masked man turned up ten minutes into Dales shift, then this basically cracks this thing wide open.

Dale turns up on Saturday night. My hunch, he relieves more than one person? If so, then you've got a case of the offenders waiting for Dale to be the only man in the plant. Dale would have known this information, but who else would have?
Second, the duffel bag. Does the plant have similar on site or was it likely brought by the suspects?
Third, the platinum. If the platinum was contained within insulated wire, how much wire was taken, and how bulky a volume would it have been?
Was the pallet jack returned or left near the exit?

How many people did Dale relieve when he arrived on that Saturday night? Is Sunday the only day without a production run?
When Dales relief turned up what actually happened? How soon were the police contacted, how soon was the footage checked and when was the platinum discovered to be missing?
Was the platinum "chainsawed" out as stated in the news report? Or was it done with a hacksaw as shown on the UM reconstruction?
Was Dale in the habit of carrying his gun with him? How widely known where the camera locations?
How many people typically were at the plant on the Sunday? By taking Kerstetter but leaving his lunch box and keys etc it meant initially the fear was Kerstetter had hurt himself in the facility and was lying incapacitated. Was that the intention and if so where does that leave the CCTV footage?

If anyone knew all of these questions, I'm sure the case would've been solved by now.

After watching this on Season 2 of UM on Amazon and listening to The Trail Went Cold podcast on this, I have a few more thoughts...

This is one of the most baffling cases, in that I think any reasonable person could swing back and forth on what happened. Hell, even his family (who believes he didn't do it) hasn't totally eliminated the possibility that he did it.

I still think Dale did not commit this crime and he was a victim.

I do think he likely knew the masked man, who obviously had a great deal of knowledge of things. The Corning people said in the UM segment that he knew where the platinum was, where the tools were that he needed, etc. This was not a chance crime -- this was premeditated and the perp had knowledge.

Dale sounded like a close family guy. Why would he just drop everything and go, never to contact them again? He was less than a year from his pension.

I can't understand why the Corning employees went out of their way to make him look bad. The one guy said, "He was a marginal employee... He did what he was supposed to but..." What a sec. That sounds like an average employee. To me, a marginal employee is one who is frequently having issues and barely making the cut. They had cut Dale's hours and he was working security for the OT. It sounds like he had a reason to be upset, but that hardly sounds like a "marginal" employee.

They also seem to blame him as the perp had to have knowledge of the company and the plant, yet they don't seem to think it could have been another current or former employee.

As far as the video goes, I've long believed him looking up at the camera was his way of saying "Can you believe this s***?" or "I hope you're seeing this s***." If it was his way of thumbing his nose at them, why stage the rest of it? Why pack a lunch you weren't going to eat and why leave a carton of cigarettes? If you knew you were going to leave, that seems a little elaborate. He still had a 16-year-old son living with him. Dale would have had to be one cold SOB to leave his family high and dry like that, especially his son.

I think Dale was an unfortunate victim. Sadly, I think he died that night because he probably knew the robber, perhaps personally. I think his body was disposed of. Hopefully it will be found one day, but after 30 years that doesn't seem likely.

I still pray for his family, that they can one day learn the truth of this.

After watching this on Season 2 of UM on Amazon and listening to The Trail Went Cold podcast on this, I have a few more thoughts...

This is one of the most baffling cases, in that I think any reasonable person could swing back and forth on what happened. Hell, even his family (who believes he didn't do it) hasn't totally eliminated the possibility that he did it.

I still think Dale did not commit this crime and he was a victim.

I do think he likely knew the masked man, who obviously had a great deal of knowledge of things. The Corning people said in the UM segment that he knew where the platinum was, where the tools were that he needed, etc. This was not a chance crime -- this was premeditated and the perp had knowledge.

Dale sounded like a close family guy. Why would he just drop everything and go, never to contact them again? He was less than a year from his pension.

I can't understand why the Corning employees went out of their way to make him look bad. The one guy said, "He was a marginal employee... He did what he was supposed to but..." What a sec. That sounds like an average employee. To me, a marginal employee is one who is frequently having issues and barely making the cut. They had cut Dale's hours and he was working security for the OT. It sounds like he had a reason to be upset, but that hardly sounds like a "marginal" employee.

They also seem to blame him as the perp had to have knowledge of the company and the plant, yet they don't seem to think it could have been another current or former employee.

As far as the video goes, I've long believed him looking up at the camera was his way of saying "Can you believe this s***?" or "I hope you're seeing this s***." If it was his way of thumbing his nose at them, why stage the rest of it? Why pack a lunch you weren't going to eat and why leave a carton of cigarettes? If you knew you were going to leave, that seems a little elaborate. He still had a 16-year-old son living with him. Dale would have had to be one cold SOB to leave his family high and dry like that, especially his son.

I think Dale was an unfortunate victim. Sadly, I think he died that night because he probably knew the robber, perhaps personally. I think his body was disposed of. Hopefully it will be found one day, but after 30 years that doesn't seem likely.

I still pray for his family, that they can one day learn the truth of this.


I agree with all the points made here. The way the Corning company portayed Dale leaves them open for suspicion in my mind. Not in anything done to Dale. But how they handled the investigation after the fact. Completely unethical for a company their size

They also seem to blame him as the perp had to have knowledge of the company and the plant, yet they don't seem to think it could have been another current or former employee.

This is a huge mystery to me as well. Why are they so certain it was Dale when they had a huge company full of employees who just got fired who all could've had motive to steal, and knew the company well enough to have known where the tools were, and how to cut the platinum, etc? I'm sure Dale wasn't the only one who worked there with debt problems.

I really wonder if some of the tapes that weren't shown showed more incriminating evidence of Dale? Yeah, I know they we're covering for their slack security, and trying to dodge a lawsuit, but did they not suspect anyone else? Weird.

Yeah, I know they we're covering for their slack security, and trying to dodge a lawsuit, but did they not suspect anyone else? Weird.

Corning wasn't interested in anyone else. Dale was the perfect fall guy. They didn't care if Dale was innocent or not. Once he was missing, it was easy for them to insinuate he was in on the crime. Deflect from their lack of security at the plant and make this case an inside job. The masked intruder was most definitely a current or former employee. I wonder how much digging the police did into that and how forthcoming Corning was with employee records past and present

Corning wasn't interested in anyone else. Dale was the perfect fall guy. They didn't care if Dale was innocent or not. Once he was missing, it was easy for them to insinuate he was in on the crime. Deflect from their lack of security at the plant and make this case an inside job. The masked intruder was most definitely a current or former employee. I wonder how much digging the police did into that and how forthcoming Corning was with employee records past and present

I agree, but it's still fishy. Guess the platinum was small fry compared to what a lawsuit would've been. Throw Dale under the bus, and keep it moving. Cold.

For such a big company, Corning was doing an unbelievably lousy job managing their business, their property, and their staff. That particular building was being sold, corning was downsizing, cutting jobs, restructuring jobs, demoting people, and cutting salaries.

I'd like to know how many at the management level received pay cuts or lost their jobs. They're really the only ones in a position to juggle things around so they don't suffer the same fate as the blue collar guys.

We've seen with the recent disasters of big companies that the lower level working people take the biggest financial hit while the middle and upper management collect as many bonuses and perks as they can milk out of the place before the whole thing collapses.

The corning plant was about 115,000 to 120,000 square feet, IIRC. It's full of valuables, including the platinum. And their "security" is a demoted guy who's been given a pay cut just before retirement and who management describes as "a marginal employee".

Out of everyone who got demoted or lost their job, corning could only find a marginal employee to take the security guard position? Then, they back him up with a new guy who didn't know that Dale was supposed to make hourly check ins? Who was training these people? Lack of training is management's fault. New hires have to be informed about what their job duties are. Seems pretty basic, but corning couldn't even get that right.

This large corporation apparently had no policies in place to protect their staff and their property. I used to work in a two man office that never had more than $150 in cash in the building and only one computer (the only thing worth stealing) and we had much tighter security than corning.

I've mentioned on here before that I temped at a car dealership back in 2005. That company was going out of business, having their franchises yanked by the manufacturers, they were cutting salaries, firing, and demoting people, But management lived it up until the very end. In the last 6 months, the upper management took one vacation per month, vegas, florida, etc, and charged it to the company until they were completely broke.

Their security was also horrible. They had 10 acres and 4 buildings. Their security cameras were dummys that didn't record anything, yet the manager had a jacuzzi tub in his office. Priorities.... IMO, there's no excuse for fake security cameras in 2005, in a company worth millions of dollars, with so much property at risk, and a couple hundred employees doing everything from paperwork and handling large amounts of cash to repairing huge vehicles sitting over their heads on leaking hydraulic hoists.

There's a part of a car that contains platinum. I think it's a catalytic converter. Well, not surprisingly, one night at the unguarded lot full of new vehicles, several of the cars were vandalized and the platinum was stolen. (However, the joke was kinda on the thieves because they were so inept that they stole fairly worthless mufflers instead of the part containing the platinum.)

My point is, management knows the risks. They know what's on the property that can be targeted by thieves. In platinum alone, corning had hundreds of thousand of dollars worth of material, but guarded it (and everything else) with a low paid guy who they apparently didn't like and didn't trust, and they didn't even have a back up plan.

If the "new guy" didn't know about the hourly security check in procedure, what was he doing with his time on the job? Management needs to account for that, too. Why are they wasting company money by paying an untrained staff member to sit and do nothing all night?

After they fail to put anything in place to protect their property and their staff, they lose the most valuable things in the plant, the platinum and possibly a human life. The only thing they can come up with is to make Dale out to be the thief by saying he was taunting them by briefly staring at the security camera. That's it? That's all the evidence they have against Dale? He was unhappy with the pay cut and stared briefly at a security camera while in the company of an unidentified masked intruder who possibly held a weapon.

IMO, the management in the UM segment came across as trying to shift blame and cover their butts. They didn't protect their most valuable assets, and didn't provide even the basics of a safe working environment for Dale.

Remember the hot molten glass pouring onto the propane tank of the forklift? Why was that potentially deadly scenario even possible? There had to be multiple failures for that to even occur. And who saved several lives in that mishap? Dale. Who, while receiving a low salary to protect their expensive platinum, was possibly kidnapped and killed. They're terrified that the family is going to figure out their negligence and sue them. If they can turn Dale into a suspect or a co-conspirator, the heat is off them and attention is diverted to the missing employee who literally left everything behind.

This. All of this.
My guess is the employees were probably Union. Dale may have had enough seniority where they had to keep him. He may have been critical of management (I would have been based on their interviews) and practices. Heck, this might not even have been the first attempt to steal platinum. Maybe Dale thwarted a previous attempt. They decided to up the ante with the next attempt to scare Dale.
It doesn't make sense for Dale to do something like this so close to retirement.
I think he was just waiting it out so he could leave.

Perhaps he was waiting to file lawsuits against Corning for the unsafe work environment until he was no longer an employee.

Here's another point to consider, if we are to consider whether or not Dale was in on it. The segment mentioned that the glass kiln aka the tank (where the platinum was located) was not apart of Dale's regular security rounds. It does seem strange in that regard, considering the tank seems to be the location of the only thing in the building worth taking. In that regards, we could potentially assume that Dale might not have even been aware that there was a small cache of precious metal in his midst.

Here's another point to consider, if we are to consider whether or not Dale was in on it. The segment mentioned that the glass kiln aka the tank (where the platinum was located) was not apart of Dale's regular security rounds. It does seem strange in that regard, considering the tank seems to be the location of the only thing in the building worth taking. In that regards, we could potentially assume that Dale might not have even been aware that there was a small cache of precious metal in his midst.

He worked there far too long to have not known. Keep in fact that he wasn't always a security guard, so he could have dealt with that in his prior position.

Interesting that Dale was only declared legally dead in 2014, 25 years after he disappeared surely that's not very common.

Interesting that Dale was only declared legally dead in 2014, 25 years after he disappeared surely that's not very common.

The company fought like hell to have kept him alive so they couldn't be sued. It worked.

The company fought like hell to have kept him alive so they couldn't be sued. It worked.

Yeah it was a long fight, I wonder what if any compensation was paid to the Kerstetters?

I never thought dale was in on it. many of the interviews are strange including the I don't think he did it but if he did I think he's in Australia line. I think the bit where dale is looking into the camera is more of a you gotta be kidding me thing. My question would certainly be if more people in the company at that time knew more at the time than they were saying and were trying to pin it on dale. If it were an inside job...

I never thought dale was in on it. many of the interviews are strange including the I don't think he did it but if he did I think he's in Australia line. I think the bit where dale is looking into the camera is more of a you gotta be kidding me thing. My question would certainly be if more people in the company at that time knew more at the time than they were saying and were trying to pin it on dale. If it were an inside job...

I go back, and forth on Dale's innocence, because you can make a case either way. I understand when people say it's hard to believe that a 50 year old chain smoker, who had a modest living, and a big family would out of the blue pull something like this. It doesn't seem likely, however, he did receive a severe pay cut, so it's hard to say he didn't pull this heist as a finger to the company for being demoted, and to gain a little cash to supplement his measly income/crushing debt.

I do think it was an inside job though. I understand alot of people think the managers we're being bold in throwing Dale under the bus because they were afraid of a lawsuit, but it looks too fishy when they didn't concern themselves with the thief in the video, or anyone else in the company.

A random burglar isn't going to show up at a glass factory trying to steal platinum. Then on top of that, know how to cut the platinum, and find everything that they need. Either Dale had partnered with someone who worked there, or he was set up by someone who worked there.

The thing is that the robbery happened right as they were switching owners. Not years before, or afterwards, but right as they were in the process of switching is when it happened. So either someone who was fired, or demoted (Dale) had an axe to grind, or one of the higher-ups tried to get Dale out of there. (he had tenure and couldn't be fired)

Another classic creepy Unsolved Mysteries segment. I remember this episode and have re-watched it several times thanks to Amazon and Film Rise streaming the original Robert Stack episodes. I dont believe Dale "did it". I believe he may have been the perfect patsy. The thing that bothers me is how the managers interviewed for the segment threw him under the bus. Calling him a "marginal" employee who was "slow" and that they had "problems" with him. If thats the case why would the managers or those in charge allow him to be placed or put him into a position of security??? So, you have a marginal employee who is slow with various problems but yet you allow him or place him in a security position where he is alone and in control of access to basically the entire plant?? That just doesnt make sense! It was also reported in the segment that he had been "cut out" of working in the trade shop so now you have a disgruntled employee on top of being marginal, slow and a problem but yet is still put in a security position???? This was an inside job and Dale was simply the victim of circumstance. It doesnt appear to me Dale was anything like Robert De Niro in the movie "Heat". I doubt platinum is something someone can use as a get rich quick type deal, you would have to have a buyer waiting or someone who knew how to move something like platinum. Its not like he could walk out the door and money was instantly waiting. In my opinion he was the perfect patsy, the company had reasons they could blame him and divert attention away from what really happened. Just my opinion of course.

Why didn't they show the real surveillance tape footage? I really want to see it and wonder if it still exists.

Why didn't they show the real surveillance tape footage? I really want to see it and wonder if it still exists.

My guess would be that whoever is in possession of the surveillance tape footage didn't want to let UM use it for one reason or another. Perhaps there was something on the footage that would have given too much away about the robbery like something the police were holding back as they often do to verify legitimate tips from false ones.

My guess would be that whoever is in possession of the surveillance tape footage didn't want to let UM use it for one reason or another.

That would seem to lend credence to the inside job theory.

Perhaps there was something on the footage that would have given too much away about the robbery like something the police were holding back as they often do to verify legitimate tips from false ones.

I still feel like they could have shown us at least stills. That was the best piece of evidence they had and they only gave us a recreation to work with. Seeing what the masked man looked like could have prompted more clues.

From watching See No Evil, I know that real footage tends to be unclear and hard to make-out especially in comparison to recreations. I hope that wasn't what prompted UM to go with the latter.

Why didn't they show the real surveillance tape footage? I really want to see it and wonder if it still exists.

My guess is two-fold. First, they said the video was a composite of clips from different parts of the building, thus making the raw video useless for TV. I think even the clips put together would have been difficult to make sense of for TV viewers. Dale's daughter saw both the real video and the UM version, and she said the UM version is very accurate.

The other issue is that this was (is?) an active missing person investigation. The police may have asked the real video not be used. This was the case in some other UM stories as well.

I highly doubt there is any sinister motive for not using the actual video.

The neverending thread...

I've read the entire thing, and finally felt like I should take the time to register and post. First off, I just want to say what a great forum this is. Like most people here, I loved UM as a kid, and many of the segments stick with me to this day. Honestly, given the nature of the subject matter (and, well, the internet), when I stumbled across this board I expected a lot more...weirdos and bottom feeders, I guess. So it was great to discover so many likeminded enthusiasts making great points and engaging in thought-provoking, civil discussions. It really gets my wheels turning. Thank you all for this great community you have created.

Next, a special thanks to moneypenny10 for her honest and enlightening insights in this thread. What a cool thing for all of us. I'm thankful that your family was finally able to have Dale declared deceased, and I extend my wishes for peace to you all. Thank you for being willing to talk about this like you have; even with the passage of time, it can't always be easy.

In regards to the case itself, it truly is worthy of such an epic thread. This thread is eleven years old! All of the really great points have been raised many times over, so I don't really have anything new to add. I'm in the camp that believes Dale was murdered because he knew the perp, but I could go either way as to his involvement. I simply don't think we have enough info. I know Penny said that the reenactment was accurate to the best of her knowledge, but it was still a reenactment (on a TV budget and probably a rushed schedule). So I would never attempt to glean anything meaningful from the details--the look an actor gave the camera, the relative size of the masked man, the size of the bag, etc. Who knows how close they got these things?

The biggest factor here is the "how many people on the planet would have any earthly idea what to do with stolen platinum?!?" factor. Obviously this has been mentioned several times, but I don't feel enough attention has been paid to it. How many people in a small town have that kind of knowledge or those kinds of connections? Especially pre-internet. Maybe I'm completely naive, but I would have guessed that even 99.8% of the people working at that plant wouldn't have any clue (or interest) how to monetize stolen platinum, much less without getting caught. And that's just the people who actually worked there--forget the rest of the town. It's such a highly specific and specialized crime, and that's why I thought for sure it would be solved immediately. It's mindblowing to me that they never found a trace of it.

So clearly the masked man was a current or former employee of that plant--that's undebatable in my eyes. I think Dale knew who it was, and was either killed to eliminate the witness, or to eliminate splitting the take (as many have already theorized). Whether it was an inside Corning job, the sketchy Florida rich man, or something else, who knows. I know Penny said there was hardly anyone in that town who didn't know that the plant housed platinum, but I just think the specialized nature of the theft (where it was, how to get to it, how to retrieve it, how to transport, tools needed, the time of night to go, etc.) and the EXTREMELY specialized nature of having the connections to cash in from there (as mentioned above) severely limits the list of possible suspects. I would have guessed you could probably count on two hands the people in that town that could realistically pull something like that off, and I would have bet the management at that plant would have known the few who could have. But again, maybe I'm just extremely naive in regards to small-town 1987 black-market platinum dealings.

That's why Corning Douche's complete lack of interest in the masked man, and his attitude toward Dale, is completely fascinating to me. As others have mentioned, people always fall over themselves to publicly praise the deceased or the missing, even if they have to lie about it, so his brazen attitude in the segment was really something. The more conspiratorial something becomes--i.e. more people keeping more secrets--the more skeptical I get, so I dunno. It is certainly possible, as posited in this thread, they demonized Dale to avoid a wrongful death lawsuit. Or even that they made him the fall guy for an insurance scam. But I guess above all I come away asking, "What pieces are we missing?" I wonder if maybe we would all lean more a certain direction if we saw the actual security footage, or knew some information that was left out. Like another poster mentioned, Corning Douche's comments about Dale stealing "once again" or something to that effect are interesting. I would like to know more about this history of trouble alluded to between Dale and the company. It's fun to point at the big bad evil corporation, and I'm leaning that way as well, but on the flipside, there are two sides to every story. And when you brazenly dig your heels in in the face of law enforcement, security footage, and the scrutiny of a nationally-televised show the way Corning Douche did, well...maybe there's a reason we're not privy to.

Oh, and to me it seemed totally obvious that the masked man had a gun to Dale's back in the reenactment. Again, who knows how accurate it was, but it seemed clear to me that that's what UM was attempting to portray, at least.

Finally, the "Dale took his $125k and dropped off the face of the earth for decades to live the life of luxury like the master criminal he is" theory seems insane to me.

Anyway, fascinating case, and great thread.

Cheers,
Matt

Saw a recent picture of Al Kerstetter. He looks completely different, bald and looks like a bodybuilder.

Saw a recent picture of Al Kerstetter. He looks completely different, bald and looks like a bodybuilder.

Sharing is caring.

The neverending thread...

I've read the entire thing, and finally felt like I should take the time to register and post. First off, I just want to say what a great forum this is. Like most people here, I loved UM as a kid, and many of the segments stick with me to this day. Honestly, given the nature of the subject matter (and, well, the internet), when I stumbled across this board I expected a lot more...weirdos and bottom feeders, I guess. So it was great to discover so many likeminded enthusiasts making great points and engaging in thought-provoking, civil discussions. It really gets my wheels turning. Thank you all for this great community you have created.

Next, a special thanks to moneypenny10 for her honest and enlightening insights in this thread. What a cool thing for all of us. I'm thankful that your family was finally able to have Dale declared deceased, and I extend my wishes for peace to you all. Thank you for being willing to talk about this like you have; even with the passage of time, it can't always be easy.

In regards to the case itself, it truly is worthy of such an epic thread. This thread is eleven years old! All of the really great points have been raised many times over, so I don't really have anything new to add. I'm in the camp that believes Dale was murdered because he knew the perp, but I could go either way as to his involvement. I simply don't think we have enough info. I know Penny said that the reenactment was accurate to the best of her knowledge, but it was still a reenactment (on a TV budget and probably a rushed schedule). So I would never attempt to glean anything meaningful from the details--the look an actor gave the camera, the relative size of the masked man, the size of the bag, etc. Who knows how close they got these things?

The biggest factor here is the "how many people on the planet would have any earthly idea what to do with stolen platinum?!?" factor. Obviously this has been mentioned several times, but I don't feel enough attention has been paid to it. How many people in a small town have that kind of knowledge or those kinds of connections? Especially pre-internet. Maybe I'm completely naive, but I would have guessed that even 99.8% of the people working at that plant wouldn't have any clue (or interest) how to monetize stolen platinum, much less without getting caught. And that's just the people who actually worked there--forget the rest of the town. It's such a highly specific and specialized crime, and that's why I thought for sure it would be solved immediately. It's mindblowing to me that they never found a trace of it.

So clearly the masked man was a current or former employee of that plant--that's undebatable in my eyes. I think Dale knew who it was, and was either killed to eliminate the witness, or to eliminate splitting the take (as many have already theorized). Whether it was an inside Corning job, the sketchy Florida rich man, or something else, who knows. I know Penny said there was hardly anyone in that town who didn't know that the plant housed platinum, but I just think the specialized nature of the theft (where it was, how to get to it, how to retrieve it, how to transport, tools needed, the time of night to go, etc.) and the EXTREMELY specialized nature of having the connections to cash in from there (as mentioned above) severely limits the list of possible suspects. I would have guessed you could probably count on two hands the people in that town that could realistically pull something like that off, and I would have bet the management at that plant would have known the few who could have. But again, maybe I'm just extremely naive in regards to small-town 1987 black-market platinum dealings.

That's why Corning Douche's complete lack of interest in the masked man, and his attitude toward Dale, is completely fascinating to me. As others have mentioned, people always fall over themselves to publicly praise the deceased or the missing, even if they have to lie about it, so his brazen attitude in the segment was really something. The more conspiratorial something becomes--i.e. more people keeping more secrets--the more skeptical I get, so I dunno. It is certainly possible, as posited in this thread, they demonized Dale to avoid a wrongful death lawsuit. Or even that they made him the fall guy for an insurance scam. But I guess above all I come away asking, "What pieces are we missing?" I wonder if maybe we would all lean more a certain direction if we saw the actual security footage, or knew some information that was left out. Like another poster mentioned, Corning Douche's comments about Dale stealing "once again" or something to that effect are interesting. I would like to know more about this history of trouble alluded to between Dale and the company. It's fun to point at the big bad evil corporation, and I'm leaning that way as well, but on the flipside, there are two sides to every story. And when you brazenly dig your heels in in the face of law enforcement, security footage, and the scrutiny of a nationally-televised show the way Corning Douche did, well...maybe there's a reason we're not privy to.

Oh, and to me it seemed totally obvious that the masked man had a gun to Dale's back in the reenactment. Again, who knows how accurate it was, but it seemed clear to me that that's what UM was attempting to portray, at least.

Finally, the "Dale took his $125k and dropped off the face of the earth for decades to live the life of luxury like the master criminal he is" theory seems insane to me.

Anyway, fascinating case, and great thread.

Cheers,
Matt

Great first post, and I agree with the bulk of what you said. For some reason I just can't shake off Corning as "they didn't want an unlawful death suit", they really came out with all guns blazing.

Furthermore, as you've said, they barely mentioned the masked robber. Just how crappy of a guy/employee Dale was. I can understand that they're not trying to get sued, or have the blame put on them, but in a court of law with their slander of Dale, and the evidence that it was the companies fault for not calling to check in, then they would've lost regardless.

Somethings off about them for sure. I've been tinkering with the idea that they hired an older employee to rope Dale into the plan, and when Dale agreed, they knew they could do away with him. If the masked man was a hired hand from the company to trick Dale into the heist, then that could explain why there's no sign of him, the platinum, and their lack of interest in him.

The only scenario I would believe that maybe Dale was in on it (which I don't), is if maybe he and the masked man overestimated what the platinum was worth. It makes no sense to leave everything behind for $125k especially when you have to share it with one or more partners. If they originally thought it was worth a million, then maybe it would make sense.

The only scenario I would believe that maybe Dale was in on it (which I don't), is if maybe he and the masked man overestimated what the platinum was worth. It makes no sense to leave everything behind for $125k especially when you have to share it with one or more partners. If they originally thought it was worth a million, then maybe it would make sense.

Problem with the whole "left everything behind" scenario is that Dale could've been in on it but was killed before the whole plan took off. Maybe Dale didn't plan to take off if he was in on it, problem is we don't know.

I believe Dale was killed right after the heist, but I have no clue if he was in on it or not. We're assuming he would've taken off, but if he was in on it, then maybe that wouldn't have been his plan. Unfortunately it's likely that he was murdered.

It is possible that Dale might have planned on staying behind and playing the victim only to get his cut of the robbery later. But he knew there would be cameras there, and for some reason I think he would have played up to the camera more and tried to make himself look more like a victim with his hands up and showing more emotion just to leave no doubt. He wouldn't let his actions on the security camera be this ambiguous if he was in on it. I honestly think he was innocent. In the re-enactment video, He seems kind of unsure of what to do, and the look at the camera seems to me a look of help instead of joy. I think if he was involved and was going to leave, he would be gloating more and smiling at the camera.

It is possible that Dale might have planned on staying behind and playing the victim only to get his cut of the robbery later. But he knew there would be cameras there, and for some reason I think he would have played up to the camera more and tried to make himself look more like a victim with his hands up and showing more emotion just to leave no doubt. He wouldn't let his actions on the security camera be this ambiguous if he was in on it. I honestly think he was innocent. In the re-enactment video, He seems kind of unsure of what to do, and the look at the camera seems to me a look of help instead of joy. I think if he was involved and was going to leave, he would be gloating more and smiling at the camera.

Hamming it up too much for the camera would have looked phony. Depending on how he did it I guess, but if he was in on it, then the way they did it was perfect. You really don't know.

The thing that makes me think he was involved even if a little, was how he looked to be talking to the burglar, and helping him in the reenactment. It looks like they were in cohorts, with Dale talking to him, and even leading the way on camera. Dale's scent was traced to the furnace, I wonder if he was coaching or keeping watch out.

I also find the whole thing bizarre. Dale knew where the camera was, but apparently the burglar didn't. However, the burglar knew exactly how to cut the platinum, and where everything was. But if you look at the reenactment the burglar looks confused in the beginning when Dale met him at the back of the plant.

Isn't it weird that the burglar came to rob platinum, but wound up being a cohort of Dale's? No one is going to steal some random platinum from a glass factory without insider information.

My guess is that the masked man knew Dale would be on duty. He was most likely an ex employee, not current. He was probably thinking Dale would be a pushover. However, Dale had been there forever and was a wily old fart who recognized the guy even though he was masked. Dale probably called him out for what he was doing and the masked man felt the need to kill Dale to cover his tracks. Corning trashed Dale in the media because of fear for being on the hook for a wrongful death lawsuit due to their non existant security measures.

My guess is that the masked man knew Dale would be on duty. He was most likely an ex employee, not current. He was probably thinking Dale would be a pushover. However, Dale had been there forever and was a wily old fart who recognized the guy even though he was masked. Dale probably called him out for what he was doing and the masked man felt the need to kill Dale to cover his tracks. Corning trashed Dale in the media because of fear for being on the hook for a wrongful death lawsuit due to their non existant security measures.

Good theory, but it doesn't answer why it looked like Dale was seen cooperating with the masked man like he knew him. Why not just kill, or tie up Dale incase he called for back up? He was security, so letting Dale meet him at the back of the plant indicated he gave Dale some sort of leisure, despite him being security. On top of that, stealing platinum like that took a lot of work. It was time consuming, so whoever did it felt comfortable enough to move around, and take their time.

I'm not sure of Dale's involvement, but I wouldn't rule him completely out.

Good theory, but it doesn't answer why it looked like Dale was seen cooperating with the masked man like he knew him. Why not just kill, or tie up Dale incase he called for back up? He was security, so letting Dale meet him at the back of the plant indicated he gave Dale some sort of leisure, despite him being security. On top of that, stealing platinum like that took a lot of work. It was time consuming, so whoever did it felt comfortable enough to move around, and take their time.

I'm not sure of Dale's involvement, but I wouldn't rule him completely out.

You have to stop invoking that tape like it is gospel. UM did a recreation of the tape. We didnt see the actual tape. Only a few people did. Id wager a lot of money that tape was in black and white and was of very poor quality. People need to stop putting so much credence into this tape. No one knows what kind of reaction Dale may or may not have had. What, if anything he was trying to signal to the camera. Its all a load of speculation and innuendo until the public sees the tape. Dale was not in on this. Period.

You have to stop invoking that tape like it is gospel. UM did a recreation of the tape. We didnt see the actual tape. Only a few people did. Id wager a lot of money that tape was in black and white and was of very poor quality. People need to stop putting so much credence into this tape. No one knows what kind of reaction Dale may or may not have had. What, if anything he was trying to signal to the camera. Its all a load of speculation and innuendo until the public sees the tape. Dale was not in on this. Period.

I don't need to stop doing anything. Without that tape, we have nothing, so I'm going to refer to that tape. Even Penny his daughter, has said that the reenactment is faithful to the actual tape that she seen.

You tell me to stop referring to a tape that is close to the actual material, but you say that Dale has nothing to do with it, like you know? Why would I listen to you about Dale being innocent? You have no proof. You talking like you have some kind of insight or authority is hilarious. Please.

You really sound like a ten year old "stop talking about the tape, because I cant disprove it, but Dale is innocent. Period" Haha. Your trolling isn't funny anymore.

This is one case where its hard to say one way or another . Were there no cameras outside?

I get paid to investigate. You dont. All that needs to be said, Sideshow. Your amateurim is obvious as is your self loathing. For you to take "you have to stop" literally shows that you're most likely a child. What you think is insight on your part is utter rubbish. You're lack of any criminal justice background is so obvious I laugh out loud at these rambling missives you go on. But carry on if you must. We're all special in our own way, little buddy.

I get paid to investigate. You dont. All that needs to be said, Sideshow. Your amateurim is obvious as is your self loathing. For you to take "you have to stop" literally shows that you're most likely a child. What you think is insight on your part is utter rubbish. You're lack of any criminal justice background is so obvious I laugh out loud at these rambling missives you go on. But carry on if you must. We're all special in our own way, little buddy.

No one is paying you to investigate this, sit yourself down somewhere. What did you investigate that showed Dale was innocent? Nothing? You're not fooling me with your hot air.

For an "investigator" you have some bunk theories. Who's paying you? Your mom to investigate who wet your bed? You're certainly not solving any real cases. If you are a real investigator then bless your soul, because an investigator with no evidence saying "Dale is innocent. period" is a terrible one. Keep trolling though. I'm sure you're amusing your little self.

Show me your "paid" professional evidence that shows Dale is innocent, or you're just another kook.

I guess you just want a little attention without adding anything of substance though, huh little buddy? You have nothing to add but "stop looking at the tape. Dale is innocent". If you are scam artist ahem investigator, then may God bless those swindled people.

Are you nuts, are you crazy? The rubbish that you spend hours a day posting on this site and you want to go after me?! You're hilarious, you know that? You should also go back on your medication. Your ramblings prove that you're not a stable person. Welcome to my ignore button, Show.

Are you nuts, are you crazy? The rubbish that you spend hours a day posting on this site and you want to go after me?! You're hilarious, you know that? You should also go back on your medication. Your ramblings prove that you're not a stable person. Welcome to my ignore button, Show.

Still no proof. More hot air. Begone.

You have to stop invoking that tape like it is gospel. UM did a recreation of the tape. We didnt see the actual tape. Only a few people did. Id wager a lot of money that tape was in black and white and was of very poor quality. People need to stop putting so much credence into this tape. No one knows what kind of reaction Dale may or may not have had. What, if anything he was trying to signal to the camera. Its all a load of speculation and innuendo until the public sees the tape. Dale was not in on this. Period.

I generally agree here, athough I'm not even sure the original tape would be particularly useful in determining Dale's state even if we did have access to it. There is probably almost certainly no sound.

I always thought the most significant aspect of the tape was that it contained footage of the intruder himself, rather than that of what Dale was or was thought to have been doing. I can understand UM and Corning playing the latter up to each's respective benefit, but I've never felt it was anywhere near as important as the former from an investigatory standpoint--and that's even if the film is a POS. It establishes there was someone who didn't belong in that plant in that plant at that time, and provides a rudimentary description of that person. Were it not for the tape, I'm sure it'd be widely taken for granted that Dale committed the theft.

I generally agree here, athough I'm not even sure the original tape would be particularly useful in determining Dale's state even if we did have access to it. There is probably almost certainly no sound.

I always thought the most significant aspect of the tape was that it contained footage of the intruder himself, rather than that of what Dale was or was thought to have been doing. I can understand UM and Corning playing the latter up to each's respective benefit, but I've never felt it was anywhere near as important as the former from an investigatory standpoint--and that's even if the film is a POS. It establishes there was someone who didn't belong in that plant in that plant at that time, and provides a rudimentary description of that person. Were it not for the tape, I'm sure it'd be widely taken for granted that Dale committed the theft.

Well put Meg. I get frustrated with all the speculation of Dales demeanor on the tape. It's a total red herring in my mind. The tape shows an intruder who didn't want to be identified and who came in contact with Dale, the security gaurd. It's anyone's guess what was going on off camera and for how long. I don't know if the police ever gave an exact time frame for everything that went down.

I always thought the most significant aspect of the tape was that it contained footage of the intruder himself, rather than that of what Dale was or was thought to have been doing. I can understand UM and Corning playing the latter up to each's respective benefit, but I've never felt it was anywhere near as important as the former from an investigatory standpoint--and that's even if the film is a POS. It establishes there was someone who didn't belong in that plant in that plant at that time, and provides a rudimentary description of that person. Were it not for the tape, I'm sure it'd be widely taken for granted that Dale committed the theft.

I always go back to what the Corning supervisor said on UM when describing the tape. He says Dale "met" the intruder at the back of the plant, and that shortly after the intruder is seen going into the tank area. Dale is never picked up on the cameras or mentioned again, except for the hint that the intruder could've been wheeling his body out of the plant. I don't think that was his body in that bag being wheeled out. There would've been evidence that Dale was killed inside the plant. I think it would've been too risky for the intruder to try and knock Dale out because he would've ran the risk of having Dale come to in the middle of his theft and have his plans ruined. IMO, the intruder tied Dale up somewhere out of frame, told him he wouldn't hurt him as long as he cooperated, etc. and had Dale help him load the platinum into a vehicle before driving off with him. There's no question in my mind that Dale recognized the guy, so the intruder eventually killed him and dumped his body in a remote region. I'm convinced Dale wasn't involved with the theft or he would've been seen helping the intruder, or at the very least showing the intruder where the platinum was stored.

I always go back to what the Corning supervisor said on UM when describing the tape. He says Dale "met" the intruder at the back of the plant, and that shortly after the intruder is seen going into the tank area. Dale is never picked up on the cameras or mentioned again, except for the hint that the intruder could've been wheeling his body out of the plant. I don't think that was his body in that bag being wheeled out. There would've been evidence that Dale was killed inside the plant. I think it would've been too risky for the intruder to try and knock Dale out because he would've ran the risk of having Dale come to in the middle of his theft and have his plans ruined. IMO, the intruder tied Dale up somewhere out of frame, told him he wouldn't hurt him as long as he cooperated, etc. and had Dale help him load the platinum into a vehicle before driving off with him. There's no question in my mind that Dale recognized the guy, so the intruder eventually killed him and dumped his body in a remote region. I'm convinced Dale wasn't involved with the theft or he would've been seen helping the intruder, or at the very least showing the intruder where the platinum was stored.

The last thing I'm going to do if I rob a place is take the security guard with me.

Why would he take the body with him?

The last thing I'm going to do if I rob a place is take the security guard with me.

Why would he take the body with him?

I think Dale recognized the intruder, so the intruder took Dale away from the plant, alive, before killing him elsewhere and dumping his body.

I'm convinced Dale wasn't involved with the theft or he would've been seen helping the intruder, or at the very least showing the intruder where the platinum was stored.

Dale's scent was found at the tank that had the platinum, so it's completely possible that he was coaching the intruder. Unless his dead body was near the tank, or he was burned. I wonder why his scent was at the tank?

Were the people in charge of the company ever investigated? With the tone that the person in the segment used against dale it seems kind of fishy.

completely different, but it kind of reminds me of the murder on music row segment where the manager denied that the death had nothing to do with music. come to find out he was involved with it all and was trying to alter public perception for personal gain.

Sharing is caring.
https://fb-s-d-a.akamaihd.net/h-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/11045306_950261878320097_3791165366384076750_n.jpg?oh=d2ab2c16e83855ce73515921fffced68&oe=5954CA88&__gda__=1499643220_90330de05105834d44c58daba362c6e9

https://fb-s-d-a.akamaihd.net/h-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/11045306_950261878320097_3791165366384076750_n.jpg?oh=d2ab2c16e83855ce73515921fffced68&oe=5954CA88&__gda__=1499643220_90330de05105834d44c58daba362c6e9

Jesus christ, he does look completely different. He aged nicely though.

Jesus christ, he does look completely different. He aged nicely though.

His sister has too: Wendy, I always thought she was a hottiehttps://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1150284_10200695906668392_69340637_n.jpg?oh=b6539432152ddcc36692150563c6feca&oe=595ABEAB

His sister has too: Wendy, I always thought she was a hottiehttps://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1150284_10200695906668392_69340637_n.jpg?oh=b6539432152ddcc36692150563c6feca&oe=595ABEAB

Wow. She always looked different from her siblings, like she was mixed with Spanish or something.

Wow. She always looked different from her siblings, like she was mixed with Spanish or something.

Yeah I thought so too.

His sister has too: Wendy, I always thought she was a hottiehttps://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1150284_10200695906668392_69340637_n.jpg?oh=b6539432152ddcc36692150563c6feca&oe=595ABEAB

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/138/246/tumblr_lltzgnHi5F1qzib3wo1_400.jpg

My theory is that dale was never wheeled out like they speculated. My theory is that was all platinum and that dale left when the intruder did, possibly killed shortly after. If he was in on it he's done a great job at staying away.

Here's what I really think happened. I believe that Dale was in on it small time with another/ex employee. We see Dale walking out on camera, but never again. However, his scent was near the furnace that contained the platinum. I don't think he planned on fleeing, but set it up so he couldn't be blamed, and would've said the masked robber took off. We see him walking with the masked man on camera like he had a gun behind his back, as well as his belongings left behind, so he and his comrade had set this heist up for some small cash. If the masked man purposely walked on camera like he didn't know it was there, but Dale did, then it seems like it was a random intruder, correct? But the masked man knew where everything was, and how to cut the platinum, so he obviously was an ex/employee pretending he didn't know the camera was there so he could seem legit, but he failed by outing himself with how to cut the platinum and knowing where everything was.

Dale's scent was at the furnace, but the footage didn't show him there, just the masked man, odd. So I think Dale was keeping lookout/ possibly coaching the masked man, but the magnetic properties inside Dale's body had vibrated, and aligned with the platinum, and extraterrestrials had sensed Dale's magnetic force from outer space, so they abducted Dale via spaceship beam from the furnace area without the masked man noticing. The masked man looked around for Dale, but thought that Dale had ran off and snitched, so he was seen pushing the platinum in the bag quickly out of the plant to get away.

Wow. Solved. Well done.

Matt

Here's what I really think happened. I believe that Dale was in on it small time with another/ex employee. We see Dale walking out on camera, but never again. However, his scent was near the furnace that contained the platinum. I don't think he planned on fleeing, but set it up so he couldn't be blamed, and would've said the masked robber took off. We see him walking with the masked man on camera like he had a gun behind his back, as well as his belongings left behind, so he and his comrade had set this heist up for some small cash. If the masked man purposely walked on camera like he didn't know it was there, but Dale did, then it seems like it was a random intruder, correct? But the masked man knew where everything was, and how to cut the platinum, so he obviously was an ex/employee pretending he didn't know the camera was there so he could seem legit, but he failed by outing himself with how to cut the platinum and knowing where everything was.

Dale's scent was at the furnace, but the footage didn't show him there, just the masked man, odd. So I think Dale was keeping lookout/ possibly coaching the masked man, but the magnetic properties inside Dale's body had vibrated, and aligned with the platinum, and extraterrestrials had sensed Dale's magnetic force from outer space, so they abducted Dale via spaceship beam from the furnace area without the masked man noticing. The masked man looked around for Dale, but thought that Dale had ran off and snitched, so he was seen pushing the platinum in the bag quickly out of the plant to get away.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/seems-legit-2osh0x.jpg

Here's what I really think happened. I believe that Dale was in on it small time with another/ex employee. We see Dale walking out on camera, but never again. However, his scent was near the furnace that contained the platinum. I don't think he planned on fleeing, but set it up so he couldn't be blamed, and would've said the masked robber took off. We see him walking with the masked man on camera like he had a gun behind his back, as well as his belongings left behind, so he and his comrade had set this heist up for some small cash. If the masked man purposely walked on camera like he didn't know it was there, but Dale did, then it seems like it was a random intruder, correct? But the masked man knew where everything was, and how to cut the platinum, so he obviously was an ex/employee pretending he didn't know the camera was there so he could seem legit, but he failed by outing himself with how to cut the platinum and knowing where everything was.

Dale's scent was at the furnace, but the footage didn't show him there, just the masked man, odd. So I think Dale was keeping lookout/ possibly coaching the masked man, but the magnetic properties inside Dale's body had vibrated, and aligned with the platinum, and extraterrestrials had sensed Dale's magnetic force from outer space, so they abducted Dale via spaceship beam from the furnace area without the masked man noticing. The masked man looked around for Dale, but thought that Dale had ran off and snitched, so he was seen pushing the platinum in the bag quickly out of the plant to get away.

Sounds interesting.

Sounds interesting.

Legend has it that if you play the X-Files theme backwards, you can hear the plant manager calling Dale a marginal employee.

I have watched this case again recently. I realize many on the board are split 50/50 on this. I have always felt Dale was innocent, and I still do. But I started thinking, what if we didn't have the surveillance footage at all? What would we be left with for evidence?

IN PARKING LOT
-Missing employee's truck and inside it...
-Empty holster
-Keys in the ignition
-Cigarettes left behind (may or may not be important)
-Day pack

IN THE FACTORY
-Untouched employee lunch in cafeteria
-Another set of keys left next to lunch box
-Missing employee
-Missing platinum
-Hourly security check ins did not take place
-Employee scent was (possibly) tracked to location of missing platinum

So, what does this leave us with? Dale looks pretty guilty huh? Well, maybe not quite.

His truck was left at the scene. So regardless, he had to have an accomplice. So that is at least two people that would be in on this. But while the exact price of the platinum has been stated to be anywhere from $250,000 - $500,000, that still even in the 1980s wasn't an amount you would typically see people running away from their lives for. But it is still possible. So...

The hourly check ins. I would think if Dale were in on it, he would continue to report in just to keep police or anyone else from showing up to check on him. It would buy them time to get the platinum and get out guaranteed not to be noticed until the next day.

Now, to bring in the cameras.
-Cameras show one masked man
-Masked man conversing with Dale at one point (Dale's relationship to the man is unclear- accomplice or hostage?)
-Dale is led off camera never to be seen again.
-Masked man appears and goes after Platinum

As far as cameras go, if Dale was in on it, why not disable or simply unplug them? With only a few cameras covering the factory, it is in all likelihood this could have been done without actually being caught on camera doing it. If not, then we have to assume that since they didn't avoid the still running camera, that the path they needed to take was on camera and could not be avoided.

Also, let's put together what one of the Corning guys (his name escapes me at the moment) said about the video. He said we see Dale meet the masked man- strange choice of words assuming the Unsolved Mysteries reenactment was accurate- I would say that Dale is seen being lead into frame of the camera based on what I saw. But he said we see them converse, Dale looks at the camera, and is lead out of frame. The Corning man put it words to the effect of "Dale and the masked man walk out together".

Then he goes on to say that the masked man reappears walking back in (not shown in reenactment) and then walks toward where the tank where the platinum was stolen from. He is then seen again wheeling something out in a bag sitting on a pallet jack (assumed to be platinum, Dale's body or both). Seems to me if Dale was already lead out, then the masked man returns, he can't walk back out again without Dale also being seen.

So definitely some oddities here. Things that seem to be a no brainer for Dale to do if he were in on it, were not done with no clear explanation as to why they weren't done.

All in all, it still could go either way, but I have a theory that fits the facts listed. As this is already a long post, I will post in a follow up.

I find this one fascinating. I go with co-conspirator, who was then killed for no longer being necessary - why cut the pie too many ways.

Okay, given the items found in the locations they were found in, I will propose the following. I will point out reasoning based on known facts throughout.

-Dale starts is shift, likely bringing his pistol in with him still in its holster.

Why bring his gun with him at all only to leave it in his truck. Most people familiar with guns as we have been told he was, would probably not take their weapon in with it unholstered. I've been around guns my whole life and I can say I have never seen anyone familiar with guns do this when a holster is handy.

-An hour or two in Dale takes his first break, perhaps taking his lunch to the cafeteria at this time. Leaving what is presumably his factory keys beside the lunch box.
-He goes outside to smoke in his truck to have the heater on while he smokes.

I noticed on Unsolved Mysteries, which was filmed in the actual factory, at least one sign saying no open flame or light in the factory. So smoking in the factory was likely a big no-no due to safety concerns. So, the cigarettes left in the truck start to make sense.

-While smoking in his truck, Dale notices something suspicious.
-He draws his pistol and goes to investigate (or maybe tries to get back in to the factory to call for help).
-He is surprised or beaten to the draw by the masked man.

It is possible the masked man had an accomplice outside as well. In fact, I think this likely.

-Dale is lead back in by the masked man and possibly forced to show the masked man where the platinum or tools to get it are.
-Masked man leads Dale out to where the other unseen accomplice is waiting. Thinking that perhaps something may have caught some attention (gunshots fired outside? Or missed security check ins?), Dale looks to the camera thinking if help comes, they would come into the security office first and could be watching him even right at that moment on the monitor.
-After being lead to the other accomplice, Dale is held at gun point while the masked man re-enters and goes for the platinum.
-Dale mentions the security check ins and that help is already on the way
-When the masked man returns with the platinum, the decision is made to hold Dale as a hostage in case they need him to get away.

All speculation of course. But, it is t far fetched at all I don't think and it fits how the scene was left when you think about it all as a whole.

Also, let's put together what one of the Corning guys (his name escapes me at the moment) said about the video. He said we see Dale meet the masked man- strange choice of words assuming the Unsolved Mysteries reenactment was accurate

In some of the reenactment footage we see Dale meet the masked man in the back of the plant, and they talk amongst themselves in the back of the plant, like they're making plans.

I believe the masked man was waiting in the back when Dale walked up and talked to him.

To answer everything that you've said, if you look at this case as a "fake heist" then it makes sense. If Dale had set this up like he was taken hostage then it makes more sense. Keys left in the ignition, lunchbox left on the table, empty holster all seem like he went to investigate and then was taken hostage. Which could be true, but they do see him "meeting" up with the masked man at the back of the plant, and his scent was at the furnace but he wasn't on camera which is strange.

I really don't know if he's innocent or not. You can make a case either way. Either Dale looked in the camera because he was signaling for help, or he was faking it.

I noticed on Unsolved Mysteries, which was filmed in the actual factory, at least one sign saying no open flame or light in the factory. So smoking in the factory was likely a big no-no due to safety concerns. So, the cigarettes left in the truck start to make sense.

-While smoking in his truck, Dale notices something suspicious.
-He draws his pistol and goes to investigate (or maybe tries to get back in to the factory to call for help).
-He is surprised or beaten to the draw by the masked man.

If this wasn't a set-up, then your theory makes alot of sense. Good points. If he was held hostage, then what other time could he have gotten his gun? Unless he just had it with him unholstered the whole time. Unless he saw them pull up while he was in his car/looking outside the building, went to go get his gun and was caught then.

Legend has it that if you play the X-Files theme backwards, you can hear the plant manager calling Dale a marginal employee.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

In all seriousness though, this segment always struck me as a case of the employer *clearly* assuming Dale was in on it from the beginning, and thus their side of the story is told in such a way that Dale seems like an obvious accomplice even though that whole scenario really doesn't add up.

When we see Dale talking to the intruder, it seems as though he's trying to remain calm and collected, like he either knows the person in some capacity or maybe he thinks if he panics, the intruder will kill him on the spot. It just never struck me as a conversation between two accomplices planning out their course of action. There's no sense of urgency. It's almost TOO calm.

The part where he looks directly at the camera is pretty telling too. I never bought the whole "he was taunting us!" theory with that. What's the point? If he was involved, he was already giving Corning a giant middle finger anyway by doing all this during his shift, no mask, no attempt to conceal his actions, etc.

It just never struck me as a conversation between two accomplices planning out their course of action. There's no sense of urgency. It's almost TOO calm.

Good point. If the reenactment footage is accurate, I don't see this as a meeting of two accomplices. Dale is seen with the intruder for one scene which lasts about 15 seconds. If Dale was involved and his look into the camera was "look at me, I'm stealing your platinum", why wouldn't Dale show himself helping the intruder wheeling the platinum out of the plant?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

In all seriousness though, this segment always struck me as a case of the employer *clearly* assuming Dale was in on it from the beginning, and thus their side of the story is told in such a way that Dale seems like an obvious accomplice even though that whole scenario really doesn't add up.

When we see Dale talking to the intruder, it seems as though he's trying to remain calm and collected, like he either knows the person in some capacity or maybe he thinks if he panics, the intruder will kill him on the spot. It just never struck me as a conversation between two accomplices planning out their course of action. There's no sense of urgency. It's almost TOO calm.

The part where he looks directly at the camera is pretty telling too. I never bought the whole "he was taunting us!" theory with that. What's the point? If he was involved, he was already giving Corning a giant middle finger anyway by doing all this during his shift, no mask, no attempt to conceal his actions, etc.

Good point. If the reenactment footage is accurate, I don't see this as a meeting of two accomplices. Dale is seen with the intruder for one scene which lasts about 15 seconds. If Dale was involved and his look into the camera was "look at me, I'm stealing your platinum", why wouldn't Dale show himself helping the intruder wheeling the platinum out of the plant?

Y'know, I was sure that Dale was in on it at some capacity, but after reading conflicting replies, I think I may have changed my tune. If Dale did plan this, then he went through alot of hoops to set this up. Which is odd because his daughter said she and her friends used to stop in and check on him, so why would he do it so suddenly? I think Dale might be innocent.

And it's no mystery the company was putting Dale in a bad spotlight to cover their tracks. I just find it weird that his family thinks he could've been in on it though.

Hmmm..I just thought of something. Dale's scent was at the furnace, but he wasn't shown on the footage. Is that because he was inside the bag the entire time the intruder was cutting the platinum at the furnace? That would make the most sense. However, there were no signs of foul play at the scene so was Dale tied up, or was he just "hiding" after being seen on camera?

.....He might've had a part in this after all. That look into the camera could've been a fake plea for help. We see them walking off camera, but then we never see Dale again, but we do see the intruder pushing the brown bag on a dolly. That brown bag had to have contained Dale at the furnace, which is why his scent was there.

Or is it possible that Dale was the masked man who was cutting the platinum? Perhaps Dale had a mask of his own, or they swapped masks and the man we see cutting the platinum and pushing the dolly is Dale? That could also explain the scent.

Also, think about the keys left in his ignition. Was Dale waiting in his truck for his accomplice to show up? Either way I think he was killed, but maybe Dale did have a hand in this..

I think the whole "kidnapping" was a set-up by Dale and his accomplice to look legit, but Dale was double-crossed. Maybe the accomplice got greedy, maybe he didn't plan on sharing at all, but lied to Dale to get his cooperation.

Good point. If the reenactment footage is accurate, I don't see this as a meeting of two accomplices. Dale is seen with the intruder for one scene which lasts about 15 seconds. If Dale was involved and his look into the camera was "look at me, I'm stealing your platinum", why wouldn't Dale show himself helping the intruder wheeling the platinum out of the plant?

Exactly. This is something I have always thought. If Dale truly was showing off, why not show off WITH the platinum in hand? It's always made zero sense to me that the supervisor saw grainy footage of Dale and immediately came to the conclusion that Dale was ripping them off.

I've always assumed Dale was probably placed inside the furnace. Thus why his scent was found there. It's super grim to think about, but it would've been a perfect way for the culprit to dispose of him. It's been a bit since I've rewatched this segment but if I remember correctly UM sort of hinted at that being a possibility.

It's always made zero sense to me that the supervisor saw grainy footage of Dale and immediately came to the conclusion that Dale was ripping them off.

Same here. This has always been one of my pet cases for that reason. The supervisor seemed like such a jerk. I honestly wonder if anyone would've assumed Dale being involved was a viable option if the supervisor (and presumably the company itself since he served as the spokesperson) hadn't been so adamant about it.

I've always assumed Dale was probably placed inside the furnace. Thus why his scent was found there. It's super grim to think about, but it would've been a perfect way for the culprit to dispose of him. It's been a bit since I've rewatched this segment but if I remember correctly UM sort of hinted at that being a possibility.



Same here. This has always been one of my pet cases for that reason. The supervisor seemed like such a jerk. I honestly wonder if anyone would've assumed Dale being involved was a viable option if the supervisor (and presumably the company itself since he served as the spokesperson) hadn't been so adamant about it.

Was there proof that the furnace was on? I found this passage on Reddit, so please take it with a grain of salt. I don't know if this person is telling the truth or not.

The supervisor seeming like a jerk could be him just covering their butts. It was stated that they didn't do their regular 5-hour check-in, so they could've been held responsible for Dale's disappearance in court, which is probably why their so adamant on making Dale seem like the worst person ever.

Was there proof that the furnace was on? I found this passage on Reddit, so please take it with a grain of salt. I don't know if this person is telling the truth or not. Or they were behind it, and it was an inside job.

The supervisor seeming like a jerk could be him just covering their butts. It was stated that they didn't do their regular 5-hour check-in, so they could've been held responsible for Dale's disappearance in court, which is probably why their so adamant on making Dale seem like the worst person ever.

If the Reddit poster is telling the truth then that's definitely an intriguing twist. I'll have to do some more sleuthing. Thanks for finding that!

And yeah, I totally agree on the whole liability thing. The easiest option for Corning in a scenario like this is to blame the employee regardless of the details. If it's Dale's own fault then their hands are clean.

That info seems to jibe reasonably with info given on this thread by Dale's daughter. Only difference that stands out to me is that I was under the assumption that the factory was sold shortly after the heist rather than during. But, it takes a fair amount of time for deals like that to go through, so it's possible the deal was in the works when this happened.

First off, on behalf of the Unsolved Mysteries community, I want to express my deepest sympathies for your grandfather. As you already read, I too believe he met with foul play and was not a conspirator. Since we have never seen the original security video, it is very hard to understand the case fully. If you don't mind me asking some questions....

1. Did you see the original security video footage?
2. If yes, was it different from the UM version?
3. Why wasn't the original video shown?

IMHO, the reason is because it incriminates somebody that worked at the plant. His boss basically said Dale was a lazy worker. (If I'm remembering correctly.) I found that to be petty considering there was a disappearance. Foul or no foul play. The reason why this case makes me so angry is because he was innocent and nobody in LE seems to care about the case. Also another damning clue in my book is your grandfather left his cigarettes and his property behind. I know so many smokers and this simply doesn't happen. Again, I'm sorry for your loss and tell your Aunt Wendy hi! :-)

Everyone is my family firmly believes he didn't walk out, we all believe he was thrown in the glass to melt and hide all evidence.

This is interesting. Would any type of trace evidence of his body be found in there though?

I'm his granddaughter (Suzi aka Susan, twin sister of Al, is my mom), and we both just read through this entire thread and are shocked that people are still interested in debating what happened. That shock is a good kind of shock, it's just wild to know that people still question what went on. Everyone is my family firmly believes he didn't walk out, we all believe he was thrown in the glass to melt and hide all evidence. Side note, my Aunt Wendy is still hot (and single) if anyone was curious.

Thank you for posting :)

Obviously this all happened before my birth so all of these answers are via my mother, not me. However, she says that the original video was "ruined" by police and she was never able to see it. She says my Aunt Penny was probably the only one to see it at one point, but the original tape was then mysteriously ruined during the investigation rendering it impossible to watch. My family doesn't really have many complaints about the UM episode, so I'm assuming it's true to what actually went on. I would assume the original video wasn't shown for the same reason my own mother didn't get to see it: something happened to it during the investigation and it was already destoryed. As for any trace of evidence left in the hot glass, the only thing that would have would been left behind would have been his fillings. The hot glass was the last place they found his scent, but the main question left is whether the technology existed at that point that was necessary to use the fillings as a positive identification. My mom says that when they finally won the battle to have him declared legally dead, the FBI agents (who unfortunately have since passed, I'd love to talk to them) confided in my family that they did not believe he walked out of there because there was no scent trail leading away from the hot glass where his body was thrown.

Thank you so much for posting. I am sorry for your loss, even though it sounds like it happened before you were born.

The fact that he may have been thrown into the hot glass is a new one on me. Thanks for that information! I've always hoped that your family would get the answers it deserves regarding Dale's disappearance. I always assumed he was kidnapped-- I didn't think he'd leave his family behind. I never pieced together that he just never left the building. Sad.

Side note, my Aunt Wendy is still hot (and single) if anyone was curious.

This actually made me LOL. Thanks for that. :)

Obviously this all happened before my birth so all of these answers are via my mother, not me. However, she says that the original video was "ruined" by police and she was never able to see it. She says my Aunt Penny was probably the only one to see it at one point, but the original tape was then mysteriously ruined during the investigation rendering it impossible to watch. My family doesn't really have many complaints about the UM episode, so I'm assuming it's true to what actually went on. I would assume the original video wasn't shown for the same reason my own mother didn't get to see it: something happened to it during the investigation and it was already destoryed. As for any trace of evidence left in the hot glass, the only thing that would have would been left behind would have been his fillings. The hot glass was the last place they found his scent, but the main question left is whether the technology existed at that point that was necessary to use the fillings as a positive identification. My mom says that when they finally won the battle to have him declared legally dead, the FBI agents (who unfortunately have since passed, I'd love to talk to them) confided in my family that they did not believe he walked out of there because there was no scent trail leading away from the hot glass where his body was thrown.

Thanks for posting and welcome

I read on reddit ( I know I know) that all of the equipment was unplugged because the company was in transition of being sold. Was there any evidence that you know of that the kiln was used?

Side note, my Aunt Wendy is still hot (and single) if anyone was curious.

If your aunt Wendy like younger men, tell her to slide into my DM's. Tell her that freakbook is 170 pounds of twisted steel & sex appeal.

JK JK

Thank you so much for posting. I am sorry for your loss, even though it sounds like it happened before you were born.

The fact that he may have been thrown into the hot glass is a new one on me. Thanks for that information! I've always hoped that your family would get the answers it deserves regarding Dale's disappearance. I always assumed he was kidnapped-- I didn't think he'd leave his family behind. I never pieced together that he just never left the building. Sad.

I'm so sorry for your family's loss. Thank you for sharing what the family thinks happened.


That is what I've thought happened all along. It, to me, was the most obvious solution. I never thought he left on his own. No smoker would leave his smokes behind.

Wasn't there another unsolved mysteries case where someone was put in a kiln of some manner? Maybe his keys or eyeglasses survived in that one? I'm straining neurons and can't come up with it.

Wasn't there another unsolved mysteries case where someone was put in a kiln of some manner? Maybe his keys or eyeglasses survived in that one? I'm straining neurons and can't come up with it.

Yes -- that is the case of Dave Bocks.

*shivers* What a horrible way to go... :(

Yes -- that is the case of Dave Bocks.

*shivers* What a horrible way to go... :(

I can only hope he was unconscious.

I'm his granddaughter (Suzi aka Susan, twin sister of Al, is my mom), and we both just read through this entire thread and are shocked that people are still interested in debating what happened. That shock is a good kind of shock, it's just wild to know that people still question what went on. Everyone is my family firmly believes he didn't walk out, we all believe he was thrown in the glass to melt and hide all evidence. Side note, my Aunt Wendy is still hot (and single) if anyone was curious.

Thank you very much for your thoughts Suzi, and I'm sorry for your family's loss. I always appreciate when a family member/friend adds to our discussions here, as it is always very enlightening. Personally I've never believed that Mr. Kerstetter was guilty of any wrong doing. I always felt that the party line of “he was in on it”, was either the company's way of playing CYA, or an attempt to head off any potential lawsuits, or both. I also never put much stock in the glass kiln theory either. My sad belief has always been that Mr. Kerstetter was most likely wheeled out in the duffle bag via the pallet jack. My basis for that belief is that I never really thought the stolen platinum was heavy enough to require a pallet jack. In fact, IIRC, a previous poster earlier in the thread did some rough math that stated how heavy that amount of platinum was likely to be back then. I still avidly follow this case even after all these years and would love to see a resolution some day. Hell, if they can solve the Wendy Camp case all those years after the fact, I guess anything's possible!

I also never put much stock in the glass kiln theory either. My sad belief has always been that Mr. Kerstetter was most likely wheeled out in the duffle bag via the pallet jack. My basis for that belief is that I never really thought the stolen platinum was heavy enough to require a pallet jack.

I agree. He was definitely wheeled out. In the segment they said that Dale wasn't seen in the furnace area on the tape, just the intruder, however Dale's scent was there. I think that Dale was in the bag in the furnace area while the intruder was stealing the platinum.

If your aunt Wendy like younger men, tell her to slide into my DM's. Tell her that freakbook is 170 pounds of twisted steel & sex appeal.

JK JK

:rotflmao:

You have a way with words

:rotflmao:

You have a way with words

:lol: :lol:

Thank you, thank you.

But I'm only joking if she says no.

For those who think the cart must have had the body rather than the platinum because platinum isn't heavy enough to need the cart, a cubic foot of platinum weighs 1,340.45 pounds. By comparison, a cubic foot of silver only weighs 665.31 lbs. Copper (i.e. the pipes people are used to) is 559lbs for a cubic foot.

Platinum is extremely heavy.

For those who think the cart must have had the body rather than the platinum because platinum isn't heavy enough to need the cart, a cubic foot of platinum weighs 1,340.45 pounds. By comparison, a cubic foot of silver only weighs 665.31 lbs. Copper (i.e. the pipes people are used to) is 559lbs for a cubic foot.

Platinum is extremely heavy.

Good Lord Necco, I had no idea! I guess I always figured that the platinum was probably heavy, just not pallet jack heavy, you know? Now though, your research certainly gives me something else to think about.

For those who think the cart must have had the body rather than the platinum because platinum isn't heavy enough to need the cart, a cubic foot of platinum weighs 1,340.45 pounds. By comparison, a cubic foot of silver only weighs 665.31 lbs. Copper (i.e. the pipes people are used to) is 559lbs for a cubic foot.

Platinum is extremely heavy.

It was talked about a few pages back that the bag likely contained the body and the piece of platinum. The intruder took an extremely small piece of platinum, which may be heavy, but wasn't haven't enough for that large dolly.

There were zero traces of Dale in the plant, and no indication that the glass kiln had been turned on. There wasn't even anything that belonged to him in the furnace. Dale's scent was in that area, but he wasn't on footage, and no evidence states he was there other than his scent.

I think it's safe to say that Dale and the platinum shared the bag.

It was talked about a few pages back that the bag likely contained the body and the piece of platinum. The intruder took an extremely small piece of platinum, which may be heavy, but wasn't haven't enough for that large dolly.

There were zero traces of Dale in the plant, and no indication that the glass kiln had been turned on. There wasn't even anything that belonged to him in the furnace. Dale's scent was in that area, but he wasn't on footage, and no evidence states he was there other than his scent.

I think it's safe to say that Dale and the platinum shared the bag.


Glass kilns are generally not turned off due to the length of time it takes to heat the glass up and the precision with which glass needs to be cooled after making something. I haven't been in a glass factory but I've been in glass blowing hot shops and the kilns stay on 24/7 many places. It is far more efficient to keep the glass molten than to let it cool. It also likely makes the quality of the product more uniform.

Good Lord Necco, I had no idea! I guess I always figured that the platinum was probably heavy, just not pallet jack heavy, you know? Now though, your research certainly gives me something else to think about.


Hey, it's rare that my metalsmithing experience comes in handy, so I use it when the opportunity presents itself :)

Glass kilns are generally not turned off due to the length of time it takes to heat the glass up and the precision with which glass needs to be cooled after making something. I haven't been in a glass factory but I've been in glass blowing hot shops and the kilns stay on 24/7 many places. It is far more efficient to keep the glass molten than to let it cool. It also likely makes the quality of the product more uniform.

Fair enough. However, that doesn't dispel that Dale could've also been in the bag in with the platinum.

From what was reported there weren't any ashes, or anything that identified Dale in the ashes.

Fair enough. However, that doesn't dispel that Dale could've also been in the bag in with the platinum.

Yep. He could have been. I'm not saying I'm 100% certain. It's just my theory.

Debating is sort of our point here. :)

~Necco

P.S. If you're going to try and pick up Aunt Wendy, it might help if your profile picture didn't make you seem like a medieval nun. :crazy: :lol: I like your bravado, though :)

Yep. He could have been. I'm not saying I'm 100% certain. It's just my theory.

Debating is sort of our point here. :)
~Necco

No, I wasn't trying to say you were wrong, which is why I said fair point about your glass kiln theory. I was just arguing that both were possible.

P.S. If you're going to try and pick up Aunt Wendy, it might help if your profile picture didn't make you seem like a medieval nun. :crazy: :lol: I like your bravado, though :)

Lmao! If Wendy can't accept Hilary, then she can't accept me. Hilary is my spirit animal.

If Wendy can't accept Hilary, then she can't accept me.

219818

219818

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aww man. This is gold!

Hilary must become the next internet sensation. If there is a hype train I am jumping aboard!

I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I've always felt that the key to solving these crimes is buried somewhere within the company Kerstetter was employed with at the time. It's JMO of course, but I've always believed that their behavior in this case was pretty low class and contemptible.
Based on what's known of Kerstetter's personnel record, his employer's automatic assumption that he was complicit in the theft and disappeared voluntarily never made much sense to me. Hell...so much of this case makes no sense to me.
For example, the company floated the theory that Kerstetter making eye contact with one of the surveillance cameras was some type of silent “taunt" to his employer. If that's the case, then why isn't he seen leaving the building like the masked intruder was? If his intent was to flaunt the theft, as his employer claimed, then what would be the point of then avoiding the surveillance cameras on his way out? I just can't see it. If he truly had been involved in the theft, and was somehow working with the masked intruder, wouldn't it have made more sense, and be less risky to allow his employer to believe he was acting under duress? Maybe I'm over thinking it...
I've always suspected that Kerstetter was likely caught unaware by the masked perpetrator and sadly killed during the crime. Can anyone remember if the masked person was armed? I've also wondered if maybe the reason he was killed was because the intruder was worried that Kerstetter could identify them somehow despite the mask. Is it possible that maybe the masked perpetrator was a fellow current or former employee and that the company immediately pointed the finger at Kerstetter in an effort to avoid some type of lawsuit by his family? As I said, so much of it just doesn't make sense to me.

Is it possible that maybe the masked perpetrator was a fellow current or former employee and that the company immediately pointed the finger at Kerstetter in an effort to avoid some type of lawsuit by his family?

Bingo. I've completely changed my tune on this case and think that Dale was completely innocent. However, I think the company throwing Dale under the bus was more than lawsuit reasons.

If you think about it this robbery doesn't make much sense. Breaking into a glass factory to steal platinum is intimate knowledge, a common person isn't going to know that a glass factory has platinum. This leaves us with a disgruntled ex-employee, or current employee. Whoever this robber was knew Dale's schedule to a T. They got him just after he arrived to work, which again, would be intimate knowledge of someone who work/worked there.

People here think that the company threw Dale under the bus to avoid a lawsuit, which is possible, but that can't be the only reason. See, getting on television, and blaming Dale, and saying that Dale could've done this without hard evidence is defamation of character. Their claims were reckless and could've done them serious damage in court. Just because Dale was a marginal employee (which might not even be true) doesn't make him a thief. He's been working there for years, why wasn't he fired for stealing before? Despite his demotion, and pay cut why was he still loyally working there? Everyone has debt, most common people are drowning in debt, using his debt as evidence for why he would steal platinum is flimsy and poor.

The intruder stole such a small piece of platinum, that makes me think that the platinum wasn't the real target. Everything in the plant was clean as a whistle, and they never even suspected anyone else, just Dale. They just laid off a bunch of employees but they target the man who was at work and who's belonging were still there? That doesn't make sense. Why not talk about a disgruntled fired employee? Why the guy who was seen as being a hostage on camera? Why would he flaunt this crime by looking in the camera with a intruder behind him? I feel like if I was flaunting the crime I would have the platinum in one hand, and my middle finger extended in the other.

Like what was said up above, this have Dave Bock written all over it. I'm not sure if Dale was a potential whistleblower, or heard/saw something he shouldn't have. Maybe it had something to do with his tenure?

Given the fact that he had tenure, and the company went into instant damage control, this seems much more than saving face to me. But maybe it was just a robbery gone wrong.

I agree with freakbook here. If Dale was not on that cart, he did not survive for long - most possibly he knew who the thief was. And platinum is so heavy, this cannot be a job made in solo.

On a robbery a victim at gunpoint is killed for three reasons: by accident, for the thrill, or because the witness knows the robber and he is too dangerous to leave behind. I go with the last one.

I would not go as far as saying the company outright had him silenced because he might have been a whistleblower, but it seemed fairly obvious Dale was a disgruntled employee toward his company, and the relationship was mutually strained. Between believing he might be a victim or a possible accomplice they went with the latter, which is really bizarre. I believe they know it was an inside job, but they have no real suspect. The easiest scapegoat is Dale letting them in, notwithstanding the fact that he has never surfaced since and he has vanished into thin air.

It is possible, however, that Dale was at first an accomplice due to being disgruntled, who let the robbers in but ended up murdered after the robbery was completed. It is a possibility that we cannot ignore. In both cases, however, Dale remains a victim of murder.

I would not go as far as saying the company outright had him silenced because he might have been a whistleblower, but it seemed fairly obvious Dale was a disgruntled employee toward his company, and the relationship was mutually strained.

The reason why I made such a claim is that they know how reckless their words are. I'm not saying for sure, but hell, look at Dave Bocks. No one had one bad thing to say about him as an employee, but he ended up in a pool of acid. Given the hostility between Dale, and the company, and how fast they were to fire off, I wouldn't let them completely off the hook. I'm not saying they for sure had Dale killed, but it's a possibility.

It is possible, however, that Dale was at first an accomplice due to being disgruntled, who let the robbers in but ended up murdered after the robbery was completed. It is a possibility that we cannot ignore. In both cases, however, Dale remains a victim of murder.

Yep. This was my original theory. It's still kind of is in a way, but I don't know. Just the fact that they showed up just as he got to work is odd. Like he was sitting and waiting for them. But, I don't know. I still haven't let go that he was involved in some way.


I'm sure most have seen this, but on Unsolved.com some people are saying that they think Dale was found in Norway. I don't think it's him, but it's an interesting comparison. It was noted that cigarettes were found near the body. He apparently was found 10 days after Dale vanished in 1987.

WARNING: NSFW. PICS OF A DEAD PERSON:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=443653165985362&id=144695135881168

http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/8989776/

The reason why I made such a claim is that they know how reckless their words are. I'm not saying for sure, but hell, look at Dave Bocks. No one had one bad thing to say about him as an employee, but he ended up in a pool of acid. Given the hostility between Dale, and the company, and how fast they were to fire off, I wouldn't let them completely off the hook. I'm not saying they for sure had Dale killed, but it's a possibility.



Yep. This was my original theory. It's still kind of is in a way, but I don't know. Just the fact that they showed up just as he got to work is odd. Like he was sitting and waiting for them. But, I don't know. I still haven't let go that he was involved in some way.


I'm sure most have seen this, but on Unsolved.com some people are saying that they think Dale was found in Norway. I don't think it's him, but it's an interesting comparison. It was noted that cigarettes were found near the body. He apparently was found 10 days after Dale vanished in 1987.

WARNING: NSFW. PICS OF A DEAD PERSON:

that does kind of look like him. How close is Norway to the scene of the crime/theft?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=443653165985362&id=144695135881168

http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/8989776/

I could swear I chimed in on this a few yrs back when I was more active, but I recently watched the segment again after however long and read through this entire thread.

Personally, I don't *think* Dale was in on it. You can't exactly walk off with $250K worth of platinum one night and then fence it in a week and call it good. In my mind, whoever did this either had a customer lined up and ready to go or had a short list of potential buyers. You could argue that Dale floated the idea of such a heist to this mysterious Florida character, but without any more information on him & his connection to Dale, that link is just too circumstantial for me to lend credence too. The only thing that would tie Dale in is his knowledge of the plant's layout & such.

Given how the company (or at least that plant) was in dire financial straits and they were screwing over a lot of people, another employee taking a bit of time to plan out a heist like this isn't at all out of the realm of possibility in my mind. I think Dale was killed as well, though I don't think a lot of thought went into it (whoever did it was probably just trying to cover themselves).

I don't think Corning really cared about the theft at all either. Knowing that the plant was going to be sold (and eventually was not too long afterwards), I think they just wanted to wash their hands of the whole thing and throwing Dale under the bus, even as vigorously as they did, was their way of tying up loose ends.

In the end, I think it was an inside job. You had a significant number of people with the knowledge to plan and execute such a heist and given how the company was laying people off, cutting pay etc, I bet many of them had a motive as well. The issue of how and why Dale was killed remains unknown to me, but I'm pretty sure he was killed that night. Finally, as I said, the company in charge--facing financial issues and embarassment--didn't care enough to address the issue properly, so they pinned it all on this employee so as to get out and get away from all the controversy as expediently as possible.

I could swear I chimed in on this a few yrs back when I was more active, but I recently watched the segment again after however long and read through this entire thread.

Personally, I don't *think* Dale was in on it. You can't exactly walk off with $250K worth of platinum one night and then fence it in a week and call it good. In my mind, whoever did this either had a customer lined up and ready to go or had a short list of potential buyers. You could argue that Dale floated the idea of such a heist to this mysterious Florida character, but without any more information on him & his connection to Dale, that link is just too circumstantial for me to lend credence too. The only thing that would tie Dale in is his knowledge of the plant's layout & such.

Given how the company (or at least that plant) was in dire financial straits and they were screwing over a lot of people, another employee taking a bit of time to plan out a heist like this isn't at all out of the realm of possibility in my mind. I think Dale was killed as well, though I don't think a lot of thought went into it (whoever did it was probably just trying to cover themselves).

I don't think Corning really cared about the theft at all either. Knowing that the plant was going to be sold (and eventually was not too long afterwards), I think they just wanted to wash their hands of the whole thing and throwing Dale under the bus, even as vigorously as they did, was their way of tying up loose ends.

In the end, I think it was an inside job. You had a significant number of people with the knowledge to plan and execute such a heist and given how the company was laying people off, cutting pay etc, I bet many of them had a motive as well. The issue of how and why Dale was killed remains unknown to me, but I'm pretty sure he was killed that night. Finally, as I said, the company in charge--facing financial issues and embarassment--didn't care enough to address the issue properly, so they pinned it all on this employee so as to get out and get away from all the controversy as expediently as possible.

Yeah. I was kind of thinking the intruder was someone that could've been let go a year or two prior to the incident, and subsequently had a bone to pick with Corning.

I could swear I chimed in on this a few yrs back when I was more active, but I recently watched the segment again after however long and read through this entire thread.

Personally, I don't *think* Dale was in on it. You can't exactly walk off with $250K worth of platinum one night and then fence it in a week and call it good. In my mind, whoever did this either had a customer lined up and ready to go or had a short list of potential buyers. You could argue that Dale floated the idea of such a heist to this mysterious Florida character, but without any more information on him & his connection to Dale, that link is just too circumstantial for me to lend credence too. The only thing that would tie Dale in is his knowledge of the plant's layout & such.

Given how the company (or at least that plant) was in dire financial straits and they were screwing over a lot of people, another employee taking a bit of time to plan out a heist like this isn't at all out of the realm of possibility in my mind. I think Dale was killed as well, though I don't think a lot of thought went into it (whoever did it was probably just trying to cover themselves).

I don't think Corning really cared about the theft at all either. Knowing that the plant was going to be sold (and eventually was not too long afterwards), I think they just wanted to wash their hands of the whole thing and throwing Dale under the bus, even as vigorously as they did, was their way of tying up loose ends.

In the end, I think it was an inside job. You had a significant number of people with the knowledge to plan and execute such a heist and given how the company was laying people off, cutting pay etc, I bet many of them had a motive as well. The issue of how and why Dale was killed remains unknown to me, but I'm pretty sure he was killed that night. Finally, as I said, the company in charge--facing financial issues and embarassment--didn't care enough to address the issue properly, so they pinned it all on this employee so as to get out and get away from all the controversy as expediently as possible.

I lean towards Dale being involved with setting up the heist, but was double-crossed. Maybe another employee/ex-employee came to Dale with the idea of stealing the platinum, and said that if Dale just played along with the victim role then he'd get some of the money from the platinum, but was then killed.

Given how the intruder showed up right when Dale got to work suggests: 1.) This was an employee/ex-employee who knew the schedule, or 2.) Dale had told his accomplice when to arrive (beginning of his shift). That's why this is hard to say. Either this was like Office Space, and some employees/fired employees tried to get back at the company, but unfortunately one was killed, or Dale had nothing to do with it and was an innocent victim. You can make a case for either one.

Hey guys, Dale's granddaughter again. My aunt penny made me delete all my posts, but here's my email if anyone ever wants to talk where she can't see! Kerrilittle@aol.com

Hey guys, Dale's granddaughter again. My aunt penny made me delete all my posts, but here's my email if anyone ever wants to talk where she can't see! Kerrilittle@aol.com

This confuses me... I always thought that Penny was a very helpful and respectful contributor to this thread in the past. Have I missed something here?

This confuses me... I always thought that Penny was a very helpful and respectful contributor to this thread in the past. Have I missed something here?

Maybe it was setting up her other aunt with a date on here

I believe she is helpful, as she has shared information with us.

It's possible that maybe she doesn't want her nieces or nephews involved maybe because she is protective of them.

I believe Don Kemp's sister is the same way. From my understanding she is hesitant to speak much about her brother's disappearance. (Late edit: Obviously a better word choice would have been "death" instead of "disappearance").

Hey guys, Dale's granddaughter again. My aunt penny made me delete all my posts, but here's my email if anyone ever wants to talk where she can't see! Kerrilittle@aol.com
I asked my niece to remove her posts as they contained inaccurate and/or false information. FOR THE RECORD, not everyone in the family firmly believes he didn't walk out, that he was thrown in the glass kiln. The original video was not ruined, anyone in the family could have requested to view it, as I did. It was evidence and that is why it was re-enacted, not released to U.M. I do not recall now if the kiln was up and running that night, but I had been advised that if it were, there would have been nothing left to use for identification. There was never a "battle" to have him declared dead; the first attempt was denied as it didn't meet the statute of limitations guidelines as well as lack of evidence to do so. FBI agents were not involved in any manner in my final and successful request to have him declared dead. (there were only ever two attempts) I have personally been deeply involved in this case starting with the day he was reported missing to over the course of thirty years, spoken with many local and state police as well as several FBI agents. Not a single one of them ever made the statement that they believed he didn't walk out of there due to the lack of a scent trail. As always, I welcome your queries.

Since you brought it up, yes, I found the comment regarding my sister both disrespectful and distasteful, completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

Since you brought it up, yes, I found the comment regarding my sister both disrespectful and distasteful, completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

I was only kidding, but I apologize. That was too far.

I asked my niece to remove her posts as they contained inaccurate and/or false information. FOR THE RECORD, not everyone in the family firmly believes he didn't walk out, that he was thrown in the glass kiln. The original video was not ruined, anyone in the family could have requested to view it, as I did. It was evidence and that is why it was re-enacted, not released to U.M. I do not recall now if the kiln was up and running that night, but I had been advised that if it were, there would have been nothing left to use for identification. There was never a "battle" to have him declared dead; the first attempt was denied as it didn't meet the statute of limitations guidelines as well as lack of evidence to do so. FBI agents were not involved in any manner in my final and successful request to have him declared dead. (there were only ever two attempts) I have personally been deeply involved in this case starting with the day he was reported missing to over the course of thirty years, spoken with many local and state police as well as several FBI agents. Not a single one of them ever made the statement that they believed he didn't walk out of there due to the lack of a scent trail. As always, I welcome your queries.

Thanks for clearing that up Moneypenny! As always, it's a pleasure to hear from you again!

I was only kidding, but I apologize. That was too far.
Apology accepted! Thank you!

Was it ever found out how the guy got in? There was no mention of a forced entry so one assumes that Dale must have been in on it & let him in/left the doors unlocked. The footage does not appear to show any weapon being held to him. The guy knew where to go, where to get the tools required etc so either he must have worked there or worked there previously.

Best guess is the other guys plan was to use Dale to get in & obtain the platinum, use him to help load it outside, then he drove somewhere remote & killed him & buried his body.

Was it ever found out how the guy got in? There was no mention of a forced entry so one assumes that Dale must have been in on it & let him in/left the doors unlocked. The footage does not appear to show any weapon being held to him. The guy knew where to go, where to get the tools required etc so either he must have worked there or worked there previously.

Best guess is the other guys plan was to use Dale to get in & obtain the platinum, use him to help load it outside, then he drove somewhere remote & killed him & buried his body.

I believe the footage shown was a recreation, not the real footage?

I don't have too much to add. Like others, with the statute up I don't see him staying away when there's no reason to. I tend to lean to him being innocent, there wasn't really much to try and tie it to him other than "he looked at the camera" and might have had a gripe with the plant as apparently many others did.

I believe the footage shown was a recreation, not the real footage?

I don't have too much to add. Like others, with the statute up I don't see him staying away when there's no reason to. I tend to lean to him being innocent, there wasn't really much to try and tie it to him other than "he looked at the camera" and might have had a gripe with the plant as apparently many others did.

Not sure, but even if it was a recreation the police saw no evidence of him being forced to do anything, looking at the camera for help would have been pointless as he knew he was there on his own until the other guard turned up the next morning. They said nothing about forced entry & with all that wealth there the idea of leaving doors unlocked or open is fanciful-he had to have arranged for the guy to come in by either letting him in or leaving doors unlocked.

There was no body found at the site & no evidence of a death-no blood, no struggle etc, so while the guy was loading the platinum up Dale must have either been outside, or waiting off camera to help him load it in. He appears to be a guy who got himself into serious debt, hated the company & either approached or was approached by somebody who worked there or had worked there with a similar grudge & like of money to do this.

The footage shown on UM was a re-enactment.

I just will never see the camera thing as a smoking gun, unless in the real footage he flipped it off and danced a jig for it.

I've worked in places alone with cameras, I've looked at them, hasn't everyone looked at them? It doesn't mean he expected help, or expected anything, he might have just been looking for ways to get away and looking in all places, he might have even just been looking into it futilely because he knew he was about to be killed. Who knows.

I just will never see the camera thing as a smoking gun, unless in the real footage he flipped it off and danced a jig for it.

I've worked in places alone with cameras, I've looked at them, hasn't everyone looked at them? It doesn't mean he expected help, or expected anything, he might have just been looking for ways to get away and looking in all places, he might have even just been looking into it futilely because he knew he was about to be killed. Who knows.

I've never looked into the cameras directly because of this segment. Because I never know when I'll disappear from work, and I don't want to have people questioning my involvement with something untoward on the internet.

I just will never see the camera thing as a smoking gun, unless in the real footage he flipped it off and danced a jig for it.

I've worked in places alone with cameras, I've looked at them, hasn't everyone looked at them? It doesn't mean he expected help, or expected anything, he might have just been looking for ways to get away and looking in all places, he might have even just been looking into it futilely because he knew he was about to be killed. Who knows.

Doesn't really add up-if you think you are about to be killed you would try taking the guy by surprise. Nowhere on the tape it seems can a weapon be seen being held to him & if the guy is walking around getting cutting tools etc he couldn't possibly be stealing the platinum & controlling Dale at the same time-unless he had knocked him out or tied him up/cuffed him to something off camera, but why does none of this happen on camera? Then why bother kidnapping him instead of leaving him there?

The only thing that adds up is he left the door unlocked for the guy on purpose/let him in & got double crossed after he had helped him steal the platinum & driven off.

The footage shown on UM was a re-enactment.

Really well done, nowadays on shows they make it obvious it is a reenactment. That stuff as always with UM was done to look scary as hell.

Doesn't really add up-if you think you are about to be killed you would try taking the guy by surprise.

Respectfully, no one knows what they'll do in that situation until they're there.

I'm not saying one way or another, though I do lean toward him not being involved. But either way, we have no way of knowing what was going on in his head. If he felt he might be killed, he might have had some kind of "plan" to try to bargain with the guy, plead...who knows. Everyone doesn't turn into John McClane when their life is on the line.

Really well done, nowadays on shows they make it obvious it is a reenactment. That stuff as always with UM was done to look scary as hell.

Absolutely. I wasn't certain, myself.

I just will never see the camera thing as a smoking gun, unless in the real footage he flipped it off and danced a jig for it.

I've worked in places alone with cameras, I've looked at them, hasn't everyone looked at them? It doesn't mean he expected help, or expected anything, he might have just been looking for ways to get away and looking in all places, he might have even just been looking into it futilely because he knew he was about to be killed. Who knows.

Excellent point.

The look into the camera has always been a red herring to me. Sure, he could have been flaunting what he was doing. But it's just as likely that he looked up at the camera, not necessarily as a signal for help, but as reassurance that at least what's happening is being recorded.

I have always maintained that if he really wanted to flaunt the fact that he was stealing the pipe, why not be the one shown on camera wheeling the stuff out of the plant?

Excellent point.

The look into the camera has always been a red herring to me. Sure, he could have been flaunting what he was doing. But it's just as likely that he looked up at the camera, not necessarily as a signal for help, but as reassurance that at least what's happening is being recorded.

I have always maintained that if he really wanted to flaunt the fact that he was stealing the pipe, why not be the one shown on camera wheeling the stuff out of the plant?

Possibly because his 5 foot 4 & 130 pound frame would make it difficult to transport 250k worth of Platinum, maybe he had other health issues as well-bad back etc. I wonder if they ever consulted a lip reader to see if they could make out what was being said on the footage?

Possibly because his 5 foot 4 & 130 pound frame would make it difficult to transport 250k worth of Platinum, maybe he had other health issues as well-bad back etc. I wonder if they ever consulted a lip reader to see if they could make out what was being said on the footage?

Why not stand next to the guy wheeling it out and flip off the cameras if his intent was to flaunt what he was doing? Kerstetter is never seen going into the tank area where the platinum is stored, nor is he ever seen again on the footage after the two men walk together out of frame.

Why not stand next to the guy wheeling it out and flip off the cameras if his intent was to flaunt what he was doing? Kerstetter is never seen going into the tank area where the platinum is stored, nor is he ever seen again on the footage after the two men walk together out of frame.

This is true, but there was no blood found or any sign of a struggle. Again we come back to how this individual was able to enter the premises, it is hard to see anything other than this being an inside job that went wrong for Dale.

This is true, but there was no blood found or any sign of a struggle. Again we come back to how this individual was able to enter the premises, it is hard to see anything other than this being an inside job that went wrong for Dale.

One possibility would be Dale checking on something outside the building, and having someone who is armed come up to him and force him to let them inside.

It could even be that the whole time, Dale was getting told "Don't do anything stupid, and you'll walk out of here alive. This place is insured, it's not worth your life." That would definitely keep him from fighting them, if he assumed that he would live if he didn't make any moves. It would also potentially explain the looking into the camera.

One possibility would be Dale checking on something outside the building, and having someone who is armed come up to him and force him to let them inside.

It could even be that the whole time, Dale was getting told "Don't do anything stupid, and you'll walk out of here alive. This place is insured, it's not worth your life." That would definitely keep him from fighting them, if he assumed that he would live if he didn't make any moves. It would also potentially explain the looking into the camera.

One would think there would be strict rules about the lone security guard venturing outside to investigate something, especially without calling in to alert control first. Besides doesn't the footage reconstruction which is said to be accurate show the masked guy wandering through then meeting him coming from another direction without any weapon?

One would think there would be strict rules about the lone security guard venturing outside to investigate something, especially without calling in to alert control first. Besides doesn't the footage reconstruction which is said to be accurate show the masked guy wandering through then meeting him coming from another direction without any weapon?


You'd think there'd be rules period about there only being a single security guard at all, but this place didn't seem to have much in the way of standards.

The reconstruction doesn't specifically say he was unarmed. For all we know the reason he appears unarmed in the footage is it's a detail LE wanted left out, there had to be something in that footage that made them decline them the ability to use the real tape.

I just will never see the camera thing as a smoking gun, unless in the real footage he flipped it off and danced a jig for it.

I've worked in places alone with cameras, I've looked at them, hasn't everyone looked at them? It doesn't mean he expected help, or expected anything, he might have just been looking for ways to get away and looking in all places, he might have even just been looking into it futilely because he knew he was about to be killed. Who knows.

100% agree with you.

100% agree with you.

Same. I have a habit of looking right into security cameras whenever I see one present myself. Not surprising to me someone else might do it, too.

theere had to be something in that footage that made them decline them the ability to use the real tape.

I completely agree and would love to know why we can't see the original. I wonder if state police records are available through an open records law? The statute of limitations has likely expired on the crime, so what would be the harm in releasing the records & original tape?

You'd think there'd be rules period about there only being a single security guard at all, but this place didn't seem to have much in the way of standards.

The reconstruction doesn't specifically say he was unarmed. For all we know the reason he appears unarmed in the footage is it's a detail LE wanted left out, there had to be something in that footage that made them decline them the ability to use the real tape.

They did say his gun holster was found in the car, but no gun.

The whole looking at the camera scene could've been just a ploy from Dale if he was in on it. If Dale was planning to help steal the pipe, and collect some cash but wasn't planning on fleeing then it's possible that he looked in the camera to fool his managers/police that he wasn't in on it, despite that he actually was.

It's possible that the whole scene was planned to make it look like a robbery, but Dale was later crossed by his partner.

That being said it's odd that the intruder showed up right as Dale got to work. So either it was Dale's accomplice and they planned it that way, or it was an ex-employee who knew the schedule. They kept trying to make Dale the one with a grudge, but a ton of people was actually fired while Dale atleast still had a job. So, it could've been just a disgruntled fired employee who stole the platinum for some cash and wasted Dale.

I'm not sure on this one.

I will say that if Dale is innocent in all of this, then it's possible that the main target was Dale, and the platinum was just a nice gift, perhaps even a ploy to make the robbery the main suspicion and not murder.

They said most of the plant just got laid off, it's possible that a jealous, recently fired ex-employee was jealous that Dale got to keep his job and he didn't, especially if they had beef.

I do find the missing gun interesting.

Ultimately, whether or not Dale was involved, it's a moot point at this point. Due to the passage of time, he's dead. He never contacted his family in all of these years. So either he was an innocent victim of murder, or complicit in the platinum theft yet was double crossed and murder. Regardless, he's still a victim of murder. And his murderer needs to be found.

With platinum being rather conspicuous, esp. back then, I would think trying to trace the sale or transfer of such might help yield a lead?

Ultimately, whether or not Dale was involved, it's a moot point at this point. Due to the passage of time, he's dead. He never contacted his family in all of these years. So either he was an innocent victim of murder, or complicit in the platinum theft yet was double crossed and murder. Regardless, he's still a victim of murder. And his murderer needs to be found.

Weird that the statute of limitations on the robbery has long run out, but by murdering Dale he would still be up for a life sentence if caught. If he was a stranger to Dale & somehow got in (although it appears unlikely) then there was no need to kill him as he couldn't be identified by Dale. If it was a deal between the two of them he could have easily knocked Dale out, cuffed him or whatever & made off with all the platinum himself without killing him-Dale would be in no position to grass him up as he would lose his job & go down for the same charges.

With platinum being rather conspicuous, esp. back then, I would think trying to trace the sale or transfer of such might help yield a lead?

One would think that was their major line of inquiry at the time. Wonder if it ended up going overseas.

Ultimately, whether or not Dale was involved, it's a moot point at this point. Due to the passage of time, he's dead. He never contacted his family in all of these years. So either he was an innocent victim of murder, or complicit in the platinum theft yet was double crossed and murder. Regardless, he's still a victim of murder. And his murderer needs to be found.

I wouldn't be too quick to say he was murdered. For all that we know he could've died from illness while in hiding. He could've committed suicide in a secluded place after the heist.

Point being, it's not a moot point if he was involved because if there's evidence that he was in on it, and ran him being murdered might not be that probable.

It is most likely he was murdered, but you never know until a body is found.

OFF TOPIC

And honestly, what nerve Lisa Penz had going on and on and on about Big Bonnie's unattractive features when Lisa's own eyeballs were literally staring at each other throughout the entire segment.

just had to give a rebirth to this epic comment

Always thought that the focus of this case should have been more on identifying the masked man, who is the only one certain to have committed a crime.

We had a robbery at my old job some years ago of large amounts of aluminum blocs - of course not nearly as valuable, but the amount stolen was worth alot in scrap - and they were easily able to solve it looking at employees. Knowing the exact location of the platinum, and the ease of which the robber was portrayed (ie the reenactment, which was supposed to be just like the unseen camera footage, he doesn't seem lost) leads me to believe it almost certain was a former or even current employee. Did the investigators look at this angle, or were they stuck on the possible red herring of Dale?

I'm no attorney, but I don't think the family has an understanding of how the statute of limitations work. You simply just cant go on the lam and wait the clock out. If that were true, every criminal would try it. I also suspect the ITS would have a hefty bill waiting on him if he showed back up

Yes I do believe he is guilty. I'm sure he his dead now. Probably killed shorty after the heist. No honor among thieves..

One would think that was their major line of inquiry at the time. Wonder if it ended up going overseas.

Probably. Even if the local authorities were sloppy and didnt follow through far enough, then someone elsewhere within the US would’ve taken note of any transaction. If one was able to get that much material out of the country in the pre-computer/pre-internet age, then they might as well have gotten away with the perfect crime.

Here is a question for the group: If the same crime, with all the same persons, same details, same security camera footage, same location, same everything EXCEPT it was attempted in 2018 and NOT in the 1980s, do you think it would go unsolved for so long?

Here is a question for the group: If the same crime, with all the same persons, same details, same security camera footage, same location, same everything EXCEPT it was attempted in 2018 and NOT in the 1980s, do you think it would go unsolved for so long?

Nope. Not with social media and today's technology. I've seen people caught on security footage wearing masks caught by local law enforcement after sharing the photo on Facebook.

I'd like to hear his children's current opinion on their father's disappearance and possible involvement, especially Penny, who seemed to be the closest to Dale. I wonder if they are still actively looking for him?

Nope. Not with social media and today's technology. I've seen people caught on security footage wearing masks caught by local law enforcement after sharing the photo on Facebook.

Totally. I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but its a standard operating tool of our local law enforcement. I see surveillance footage posted on Facebook on the regular anymore...

I'm no attorney, but I don't think the family has an understanding of how the statute of limitations work. You simply just cant go on the lam and wait the clock out. If that were true, every criminal would try it. I also suspect the ITS would have a hefty bill waiting on him if he showed back up

Yes I do believe he is guilty. I'm sure he his dead now. Probably killed shorty after the heist. No honor among thieves..

I believe as long as they don't file charges, and I don't think they specifically did, then he'd have been clear by now.

The only thing is he'd still be on the hook civilly to the plant and that could be a reason to stay away. I don't know if that plant's still operating, but even it it's closed but was sold to someone before hand they'd be able to try to sue.

I've probably commented on this before, but I think it's very unlikely that Dale is alive given how long he's been gone. My assumption is that he died within days or even hours of the robbery. I find it more likely that Dale was innocent and killed by the perpetrators than that he was in on it and got double crossed.

I believe he was innocent.

I don't trust the motives of the plant leadership in trying to pin it on him. My money's on them trying to twist it into Dale being a robber because otherwise they had a ton of unguarded platinum (per the segment, it wasn't on his route) and that negligence might have put their insurance claim in jeopardy.

The surveillance footage UM showed of him walking out and looking directly at the camera was not the real footage right? It gave me the creeps as a kid.

It's not.

The surveillance footage UM showed of him walking out and looking directly at the camera was not the real footage right? It gave me the creeps as a kid.

As drew790 said, it's not the real footage. It's a re-enactment based on the original footage. I think I read somewhere, but I'm not positive, that the UM segment producers were allowed to view the original footage before creating the re-enactment.

As drew790 said, it's not the real footage. It's a re-enactment based on the original footage. I think I read somewhere, but I'm not positive, that the UM segment producers were allowed to view the original footage before creating the re-enactment.

I think it was Dale's daughter who said this earlier in this thread.

$250,000 worth of platinum pipe goes missing and law enforcement was never able to find any of it? That's not something one could sell to random people. How would one find buyers?



Figure this out and you'd be on track to close the case.

$250,000 worth of platinum pipe goes missing and law enforcement was never able to find any of it? That's not something one could sell to random people. How would one find buyers?


It wouldn't have been that difficult if the thief/thieves planned on selling the pipes to scrap metal dealers/recyclers who turned a blind eye to where the material was coming from because they could resell it at a good price. It's similar to how shady scrapyards used to accept copper wire or stolen vehicle parts in order to extract the metals.

The pipes could have been melted down and/or transported out of the area. I've never had a strong opinion about Kerstetter's potential involvement but current or former employees likely were involved.

It wouldn't have been that difficult if the thief/thieves planned on selling the pipes to scrap metal dealers/recyclers who turned a blind eye to where the material was coming from because they could resell it at a good price. It's similar to how shady scrapyards used to accept copper wire or stolen vehicle parts in order to extract the metals.

The pipes could have been melted down and/or transported out of the area. I've never had a strong opinion about Kerstetter's potential involvement but current or former employees likely were involved.


This is something that never crossed my mind when I commented a year ago, but makes perfect sense. That said, it'd make the rest of my theory (that one or more disgruntled employees pulled an inside job to get back at Corning, who was screwing them all over) all the more plausible.

This is something that never crossed my mind when I commented a year ago, but makes perfect sense. That said, it'd make the rest of my theory (that one or more disgruntled employees pulled an inside job to get back at Corning, who was screwing them all over) all the more plausible.

Corning's treatment of their workers and the impending sale of the facility was the perfect recipe for an in house theft.