Alright I watched most of the video (posted below) and this is a film put together by Linda Ives about her son Kevin's death. It is a conspiracy theory video as indicated above but in this case I think the conspiracy is well justified and may belay one of the most abominable crimes of the past twenty years.

What is ironic is Kevin Ives and Don Henry were simply victims of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. According to the theory set forth by Linda Ives here is what likely went down on the night her son and his buddy were placed on the railroad tracks.

On August 23, 1987, Don Henry and Kevin Ives ventured out into the woods near Little Rock, Arkansas to do some night hunting (or spotlighting as the UM segment described it). During this time the boys apparently smoked some marijuana (enough to find trace amounts in their systems but not enough to cause a drug overdose or a drug stupor causing them to fall asleep on the tracks)

At some point the boys exited the woods near the railroad tracks where according to Ives' research, a drug drop was occuring on that evening which was supervised by the DEA (as part as what is commonly known as the "Mena" scandel). Ives implicates Judicial District Prosecutor Dan Harmon and crony Sharline Wilson as being principals in the murder of Kevin Ives and Don Henry.

A theory which at points is corroborated by information given by witnesses of possible police brutality against Kevin and Don the night they were murdered is as follows:

Harmon and Wilson were at the tracks awaiting drugs to be dropped from an airplane per pre-arrangement. Harmon got out of his vehicle and walked the tracks with others (according to Ives' possibly state and local police) while Wilson remained in the vehicle. Don Henry and Kevin Ives innocently walked out of the woods and happened upon Dan Harmon who realizing there were now witnesses to the drug drop approached the boys in some sort of threatening manner. Don Henry filed one shot from his rifle and everyone scattered.

Don and Kevin took off northbound where a short while later they met up with another crony Keith Coney who was on a motorcycle. Coney drove the two boys to Ranchette Grocery on Highway 111.

Don Henry then apparently attempted to make a phone call although it is unknown if his call ever went through to its destination. Two police officers showed up and they were later identified to Ives by witnesses as Kirk Lane and Jay Campbell. (who common logic would state had to also have been at the scene of the drug drop earlier that night given their subsequent actions)

Witnesses observed Campbell and Lane accost the two boys and a brief scuffle ensued. When Kevin Ives reached for his rifle, one of the police officers grabbed it and smashed Kevin's skull in with the butt of the rifle likely killing him instantly or mortally wounding him.

The two police officers then threw both boys in the back of the unmarked police car and took off towards a dirt road which dead ended in the woods after around a quarter of a mile.

Keith Coney, the boy who had driven both Ives and Henry to the grocery took off on his motorcycle as soon as the violence began. Coney then went to a local bar known as the "Wagon Wheel" and informed two men of the situation (one of which was Keith McKaskle) - McKaskle also took off in the direction of the tracks to see what was going on.

According to a local man named Ronnie Godwin, he also witnessed the beating of two boys at the grocery the night Ives and Henry were found on the tracks. It was he who reported that he saw the two police officers whom he identified as Campbell and Lane, drive away with the boys down a dirt road. It is suspected that it is at this juncture that Don Henry likely recieved the stab wounds that caused his death and perhaps Kevin Ives was killed as well at this juncture if he was not already dead from the earlier altercation at the grocery store.

Ronnie Godwin, knowing that the road dead ended in the woods knew the car would have to come back in his direction so he parked hidden behind two trailers and watched as the car emerged from the woods fifteen minutes later and drove towards the direction of the railroad tracks where the boys were later run over.

Another witness named Mike Crook, corroborates most of Godwin's statements as a similar statement was told to him by a drifter on the night of the "The Train Deaths".

Keith McKaskle also may have been a witness to the actual act of laying Ives and Henry on the tracks. McKaskle took off for the woods after being alerted by Coney of the situation and apparently witnessed Ives and Henry being laid out on the tracks and covered with a tarp. There are also several other witnesses alleged in Mara Leveritt's book "The Boys On The Tracks" who witnessed portions of what occured on the night of 8-23-87 relating to Henry and Ives.

Several ironies exist with the first being Coney and McKaskle were both found dead in 1988 under mysterious circumstances and the manner of their deaths ruled as accidents while there was much evidence to the contrary. Those who support Linda Ives' conspiracy theory believed both men were murdered in order to ensure their silence.

Another irony is that Dan Harmon who according to Ives may be at the very crux of the entire events surrounding "The Train Deaths" was later charged along with Richard Garrett to head up a Grand Jury investigation on the deaths of Ives and Henry. In fact Garrett was interviewed extensively on the UM segment where he promised viewers that he would find a resolution to this case.

However in the early 90s both Garrett and Harmon were dirtied by accusations of drug scandals and cover ups in Arkansas. Although both men were eventually cleared, Linda Ives later learned in the late 90s, that at least Harmon may have been involved in the death of her son and his friend

Finally it is my opinon that what is preventing true justice for Ives and Henry is the "buddy system". If people with information pertaining say to the two cops who allegedly assaulted Ives and Henry the night they were found dead were to come forward and an indictment against these two individuals made, they would likely "roll over" on someone "higher up the chain" from them.

In turn those people would "roll over" on someone even higher up the chain possibly involved in the Mena drug scandal. And on and on it would go which is likely what the people at the very top of this thing want to avoid:

The snowball effect.

Thanks for posting that, it filled in a lot of holes in the case I had been thinking about. When I stumbled on the film I had no prior knowledge of it or what it was about but it seemed like they had there facts pretty straight. Unfortunately all to often facts can be spun to present a side very convincingly but not really give you the whole story. In this case however I'm inclined to believe that shes not too far off from the truth, afterall it seems to be the only story that makes sense especially considering the murders of the key witnesses, botched police work and hidden evidence in the years to follow. Even if we eschew for a moment the Mena connection and the high government corruption it still leaves the question of why the case was so badly botched by the police, why the key witnesses were targeted and why the authorites have been so uncoporative in helping resolve this case. The only real answer it seems to lead us too is police and government corruption, which if true is a frightening and sad reminder of how important it is to keep a close eye on those in power.

Wow! Thanks for that DarkDante. Very interesting details. It all adds up now.

I think Bill Clinton was part of the cover-up, as well.

I had posted this earlier, but Jay Campbell one of the cops is now in jail.

http://www.arkansasleader.com/2006/02/from-publisher-no-wonder-lonoke-jail.html

^ Boco, I would be interested to hear your take on Ives' theory as well as any other thoughts you have on the case.

Do you believe it will ever be resolved?

In response to someone mentioning Bill Clinton earlier... I remember getting an e-mail from one of those conspiracy theory groups that talked about all the people who met untimely ends while working for the Clinton administration. I want to say that "The Boys on the Tracks" were included in this list. They stood out to me because they didn't actually work for the Clinton Administration, yet they were allegedly victims of it. In any case, it's interesting.

Anyone else familiar with the e-mail I'm talking about?

I don't remember recieving that email but one allegation levied against Clinton in regard to the cover up on this case is basically being a lap dog for the state medical examiner (at the time) Fahmy Malak.

A few years prior to "The Train Deaths" Bill Clinton's mother was an anesthesiologist who apparently accidentally caused the death of two patients under her care.

The body of the second patient, Susie Deer, was sent to Dr.Malak for autopsy. Malak declared that Kelley was not responsible for the death.

It seems that if you buy into the entire conspiracy theory of corruption in the Arkansas government at the time, Clinton owed Dr. Malak some pretty heavy political favors and Malak was basically granted a "free pass" so to speak to conduct his affairs as the state medical examiner any way he saw fit without having to answer to any type of authority.

He could falsify documents, perjure himself on the witness stand, ignore court orders to reveal evidence and Clinton would politically protect him so that he would not lose his job or have to answer to any legal repercussions for his actions.

In response to someone mentioning Bill Clinton earlier... I remember getting an e-mail from one of those conspiracy theory groups that talked about all the people who met untimely ends while working for the Clinton administration. I want to say that "The Boys on the Tracks" were included in this list. They stood out to me because they didn't actually work for the Clinton Administration, yet they were allegedly victims of it. In any case, it's interesting.

Anyone else familiar with the e-mail I'm talking about?

I remember reading that list ages ago it's called "The Clinton Body Count" Kevin and Don seem to always appear on the list along with those key witnesses slain in the aftermath.

http://www.etherzone.com/body.html

and just for comparison the straight snope on the issue (with and interesting theory on Kevin and Dons murder which contradicts Linda Ives theory)

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/clinton.htm

^ Thanks for the opposing viewpoint, its actually the first contradictory evidence I've ever heard in relation to Kevin Ives and Don Henry although I do remember reading that someone did confess to Linda Ives through a source that he was involved in the death of her son and it had nothing to do with a drug cover up. This could be related to that.

The problem is in my subjective opinion, I don't buy it - The main thing in my eyes with this case is how if you buy into the conspiracy theory (which I would wager most of us here do from what I've read in the past) the people who took these boys lives actually created more problems for themselves by taking their lives then they wished to solve.

Obviously nobody involved with the alleged drug drop on the tracks that evening initally had any intention of being murderers but Henry and Ives crept up on them out of nowhere and these people hit the old panic button and decided they had to silence any witnesses.

One question that has always swirled around my head about this case and probably doesn't have a real answer is:

"When exactly did Don Henry and Kevin Ives arrive at the tracks when the drug drop was taking place"

If it was before or just after the police officials who were supposedly involved could have easily warded the boys off by cautioning them that "official police business was going on and they were to disperse from the area". There would have been no need for violence of any kind unless the officials were so paranoid word was going to leak out somehow that they had to kill the boys.

The laying of the boys on the railroad tracks was also a stupid move in my opinion based on hopes that the boys being run over by a train would conceal any true cause of death on the bodies along with opening up avenues for accidental death or suicide.

The problem of course was none of this occured because Ives & Henry were not suicidal and they way they alligned the boys on the tracks along with other evidence was inconsistent with an accident. This is all moot of course because several months later Don Henry's true cause of death was determined to be from stab wounds inflicted of course PRIOR to being run over by a train.

Fahmy Malak also made a fine mess of things by trying to conceal Kevin Ives' cause of death by marking his skull in several places during his autopsy. It later also came out that Malak originally was going to rule the boys death a suicide but was informed by a local sheriff who knew the boys, that nobody would believe that. Malak then went on his crusade to paint the scenerio as a couple of doped up teens falling asleep on the railroad tracks.

If these people were truly all involved with "The Train Deaths" we certainly aren't dealing with Rhodes Scholars here by any means.

I agree, if you buy into the conspiracy theory you have to wonder why those involved were so sloppy. But perhaps it could be a combination of both conspiracy thoery and a local altercation over over the theft of cocain. Lets say for the sake of theory that the goverment and the drug trade in Mena were working together, it wouldnt be unreasonable to assume that those in power simply didnt want people poking around a drop zone. So lets say the confession is true and it was Criswell who beat them, stabbed them and placed them on the tracks, such a brutal murder is going to draw a lot of unwanted attention. Dr Malak is brought in to rule the deaths an accident with the hopes the that buzz around the incident will go away and the drop zone can go back into operation. Unfortunately, Malak wasnt the best of con men and did such a shabby job covering up the death that his ruling was questioned and thusly begins to uncover the complex conspiracy between Mena and the Arkansas government. The Government in turn begins doing everything they could to cover up the facts, close down hearings and eliminate witnesses.

I just pulled that off the top of my head but it would answer the question of the sloppy murder and the apparent conspiracy that followed in its wake. Afterall if the conspiracy is true it would tie a lot of very important people to Mena. Could the cover up simply have started as diversion to the drop zone and spiraled out of control as they tried to cover there steps, which in the process inadvertantly tied the police to the killings of Ives and Henry?

http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=5451d408-9652-45fd-927f-d5aa2f0dd7a5

Here's an article by Mara Leveritt, author of Boys on the Tracks, about the dyanmic trio of Campbell, Lane, and Harmon.

As for what I believe happened. I honestly don't think the boys were hunting.
I think they either picked up some drugs or cash from a previous drop. They went back and got caught. I do believe that Harmon, Campbell and Lane were the culprits.

As to my opinion, if it was in another state, more pressure would come down.
Arkansas is a big boys club. This case and the West Memphis Three(Child Murders) to be solved have a major tremendous uphill battle. But now maybe with Campbell being locked up, something can come of this.

I believe that drugs were a factor in it somehow. This case bares some similarities to the Norman Ladner case in that it involves a mysterious death of a teenage boy(s) out in the woods hunting at night. I believe there was a UM segment where a police officer said most crimes can be traced back to one of three things, one of them being drugs. I think some people were doing a drug drop, probably figuring that since it was night and night hunting doesn't appear to be particulary common, that there wouldnt' be any witnesses but were suprised to find Ives and Henry walking in on them.

The odds of one boy passing out from drugs, lying on the railroad tracks and not hearing the train is long, but the odds of two boys doing it are extremely unlikely.

I used to love going out into the woods at the house I grew up in. After watching these segments, I'd be terrified.

Someone brought this article to my attention yesterday in the Arkansas Times:

http://arkansastimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=11c8563f-221b-4e61-b2a1-c875aafb0b0f

Interesting...and shady, if you ask me. Note the blurb about "everyone" having forgotten the case.

If these boys were supposed to be out "night hunting", anyone know exactly what it was they were hunting for?

I know that here in michigan, it's against the law (and was way back before 1987, when these murders happened) to use a light to shine game (deer, etc.) and then shoot the animal at night.

In michigan, we have "legal shooting light". The department of natural resources publishes a calendar with every day of the hunting season noted. On each day, "legal light" is noted, when you can begin shooting. It may seem light enough to shoot, but you have to check your calendar for the time to be sure, so you don't break the law, lose your guns and all your hunting gear, atvs, hunting license, and get a big fine. One day, legal shooting light may be 7:13 am and the next day it may be 7:14 am. That's the rules for waterfowl.

For deer, I think the rule is just "sunrise" or "first light" when it's not dark anymore and you can clearly define your target as a deer and not human, dog, livestock, etc. Not sure on those legalities....

So basically, were these boys on the tracks out poaching (illegally hunting) at night? I know down south, they ain't as picky about shootin varmints are they are here up north. Maybe nobody cared.

But, maybe the cops used it as a way to aprehend the boys, which started them on that slippery slope into the police corruption, drug drop, etc.

I remember this case from UM but don't have the familiarity with it that some of you do, nonetheless, I'm very, very skeptical of massive conspiracy theories... to accept them, you generally have to presume that the entire power structure is corrupt and evil, sophisicated enough to carry out some massive conspiracy, yet stupid enough to make crazy blunders.

Let's assume, arguendo, that the boys did stumble across some drug activity by corrupt cops and elected officials and that said persons wished to eliminate them for it. Why stage an elaborate death that would certainly draw attention to itself? Wouldn't it be easier to just make the boys disappear? I mean, if you're dealing with such a massive conspiracy, certainly it could just abduct the boys, feed them through a wood chipper or something and dump what's left into the ocean. Then you don't have bodies, you don't have autopsies, and you just have missing kids who went out and were never seen again... you factor in some misguided "sightings" (maybe even some planted by the conspirators) and the like and you get a nice clean mystery divorced from the time and place of the original illicit activity.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but as Sagan used to say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and for the vast majority of every conspiracy theory there is, this proof is sorely, sorely lacking.

If these boys were supposed to be out "night hunting", anyone know exactly what it was they were hunting for?

I know that here in michigan, it's against the law (and was way back before 1987, when these murders happened) to use a light to shine game (deer, etc.) and then shoot the animal at night.

In michigan, we have "legal shooting light". The department of natural resources publishes a calendar with every day of the hunting season noted. On each day, "legal light" is noted, when you can begin shooting. It may seem light enough to shoot, but you have to check your calendar for the time to be sure, so you don't break the law, lose your guns and all your hunting gear, atvs, hunting license, and get a big fine. One day, legal shooting light may be 7:13 am and the next day it may be 7:14 am. That's the rules for waterfowl.

For deer, I think the rule is just "sunrise" or "first light" when it's not dark anymore and you can clearly define your target as a deer and not human, dog, livestock, etc. Not sure on those legalities....

So basically, were these boys on the tracks out poaching (illegally hunting) at night? I know down south, they ain't as picky about shootin varmints are they are here up north. Maybe nobody cared.

But, maybe the cops used it as a way to aprehend the boys, which started them on that slippery slope into the police corruption, drug drop, etc.

Kevin and Don were deer poaching---not only were they spotlighting, they were hunting out of season.

Someone mentioned on another Ives/Henry thread a while back that maybe the spotlighting story was just an excuse for the boys to get out of the house, away from adults, you know; it wasn't that they lied to Curtis' father, of course, it was just that they were more interested in doing something someplace besides Don's house. During autoposy it was found the boys had indeed smoked marijuana (althought not at all the amount that Malak had originally stated), so it's possible that that's what they set out to the woods to do.

I remember this case from UM but don't have the familiarity with it that some of you do, nonetheless, I'm very, very skeptical of massive conspiracy theories... to accept them, you generally have to presume that the entire power structure is corrupt and evil, sophisicated enough to carry out some massive conspiracy, yet stupid enough to make crazy blunders.

Let's assume, arguendo, that the boys did stumble across some drug activity by corrupt cops and elected officials and that said persons wished to eliminate them for it. Why stage an elaborate death that would certainly draw attention to itself? Wouldn't it be easier to just make the boys disappear? I mean, if you're dealing with such a massive conspiracy, certainly it could just abduct the boys, feed them through a wood chipper or something and dump what's left into the ocean. Then you don't have bodies, you don't have autopsies, and you just have missing kids who went out and were never seen again... you factor in some misguided "sightings" (maybe even some planted by the conspirators) and the like and you get a nice clean mystery divorced from the time and place of the original illicit activity.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but as Sagan used to say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and for the vast majority of every conspiracy theory there is, this proof is sorely, sorely lacking.

In Saline County, Arkansas---especially in 1987---I think a disappearance into woods less than a mile from Don Henry's residence would've drawn far more attention than death from train impact. In fact, just years before, there had been one or two train deaths in that part of Arkansas that had been ruled suicides.

Residents of Saline County and those surrounding had started noticing strange activity in the woods near those tracks since the early '80s. A disappearance from that area surely would've raised more than a few eyebrows, I would think. Make it look like an accident, shut up the small players (such as the paramedics, who had actually attached a note of interest onto their initial report on the condition of the boys' bodies when they found them, suggesting that they had been dead long before they were struck by the train), and sit back and rest easy knowing you have the big timers on your side (Fahmy Malak, the state medical examiner, for instance). I think this was honestly a case of overconfidence on the conspirators' part. I truly believe they honestly thought the general populace was not going to question the state of Arkansas and its officials. "Oh well, couple of boys smoking dope. You know what that stuff does to you." And they thought everyone would just move on and forget it.

I for one don't buy into the "Clinton Body Count" thing or anything in that particular vein, but I do honestly, completely, and totally believe the Ives/Henry murders were coverups, and related to drug trafficking. If you research this case enough, I do truly believe you'll come to a similar conclusion.

I for one don't buy into the "Clinton Body Count" thing or anything in that particular vein, but I do honestly, completely, and totally believe the Ives/Henry murders were coverups, and related to drug trafficking. If you research this case enough, I do truly believe you'll come to a similar conclusion.

Perhaps. What of the confession I saw on snopes re: the kids stole coke from a dealer who confessed to murdering them in exchange?

I saw the story on UM today, and didn't really get the feel of a cover-up... why is the state re-opening the case, re-autopsing the bodies, convining grand juries, and finding the deaths as homicides? It doesn't make sense if you're trying to cover the same up. It seems the AR state ME was incompetent, but being stupid doesn't equal conspiracy.

I'm Kevin's mom -- the snopes site is about as accurate as the Clinton body count sites. I have always been willing to accept FACTS whatever they may be. There is absolutely NO evidence the boys were stealing drugs -- they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Ms. Ives -

Welcome to the UM board! Thanks for posting.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your son. Even after all these years, I'm sure the pain never goes away. Especially losing your son the way you did and never having closure. My condolences to you.

As for your son's story, I've always believed the only thing he and his friend were guilty of is being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Just a sad, sad story.

Best wishes,

TM

If these boys were supposed to be out "night hunting", anyone know exactly what it was they were hunting for?

I know that here in michigan, it's against the law (and was way back before 1987, when these murders happened) to use a light to shine game (deer, etc.) and then shoot the animal at night.

Spotlighting is illegal here in Illinois, too. Also, legal deer season is during winter, not summer. I would guess they were out hunting illegally (not saying that they deserved to be killed for it or anything). It is possible they could have been hunting coyotes. Coyotes are nocturnal, and they're considered pests so you can kill them anytime of year.

I agree with the cover-up theory. Yes, the cops created a mess when they killed the boys. But this was obviously not a well thought-out killing. These guys panicked because someone who wasn't supposed to be there showed up. They didn't have time to plan things out. Plus, it's possible that they weren't the sharpest tools in the shed anyway (wouldn't it make more sense to bury the bodies somewhere far away and remote?). Dumb, panicky people do dumb things. They knew they would have friends at the top to protect them.

Ms. Ives- I'm so sorry for your loss.

I'm a bit confused about the tarp in this case. Let's assume for now that the boys were in fact covered by the tarp when the train ran them over. In order for the tarp to disappear, it would have to be removed after the accident. So if the murderer(s) removed the tarp, they would have had to put the tarp on them, and then after the accident, go back and remove it? All the while avoiding detection by the train crew. It doesn't make sense

I'm a bit confused about the tarp in this case. Let's assume for now that the boys were in fact covered by the tarp when the train ran them over. In order for the tarp to disappear, it would have to be removed after the accident. So if the murderer(s) removed the tarp, they would have had to put the tarp on them, and then after the accident, go back and remove it? All the while avoiding detection by the train crew. It doesn't make sense

The theory is that law enforcement officials, for some inexplicable reason, made sure the tarp never surfaced, even though it was there at the scene.

Stephen Shroyer, the engineer, and Jerry Tomlin, the conductor (as well as at least one other member of the train crew), testified that there was definitely a green tarp covering the boys before impact. Upon impact, the tarp blew off and away. Since the murder site was just beyond a railroad trestle, the most likely scenario was that the tarp fell below that trestle, or at least within close proximity of it (as were the boys' bodies, Don's rifle, and his spotlight). The crew did search the area as depicted in the UM segment, but certainly not as extensively as did the police and EMS. A tarp is a much lighter object than a body, and it probably traveled a greater distance, or settled below the trestle. More than likely, the crew simply missed it.

Nonetheless, the crew reported the tarp and officers went looking for it. Since no tarp ever surfaced, clearly someone lied. The same testimony from three men who had no reason whatsoever to have fabricated that detail leads me to believe that the investigating agencies are the ones who aren't telling the truth---for whatever reason that may be. The biggest thing I can think of is that tarp probably contained valuable forensic evidence.

Mara Leveritt's book The Boys On the Tracks tells of a situation not long after the accident that Kevin's father Larry went down to the murder site and recovered what appeared to be a large piece of cardboard. He speculated that it may have been used to move bodies, as it was large and sturdy enough, and appeared to have definite blood stains on its surface. He took this to Saline County authorities with the hope of having it tested. No one ever saw this board again.

what about the guy and the camo outfit there was also murders acouple of miles away in a different town along with the same stranger in the camo walking the tracks. could that be the drug ring looking for drugs along the tracks? they could be responsiblr for the following murders in the other town.

what about the guy and the camo outfit there was also murders acouple of miles away in a different town along with the same stranger in the camo walking the tracks. could that be the drug ring looking for drugs along the tracks? they could be responsiblr for the following murders in the other town.

Where did you hear that story? The segment only mentioned a 1984 case in Oklahoma where two males had been run over by a train while lying on the tracks. I've never read anything about murders near Bryant specifically involving the "man in military fatigues."

it was on spike the episode and there were witnesses saying they drove passed or walk [past the tracks and they remember seeing an odd fellow with what looked like camo gear on and that a town miles away from rthat town also experienced murders and they say that there was the same guy walking down the tracks the same time the othr murders were involved is it possible that he or they were loking for drugs along the tracks and they killed these people because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

oh and one of the boys had knife cuts in his shirt.

it was on spike the episode and there were witnesses saying they drove passed or walk [past the tracks and they remember seeing an odd fellow with what looked like camo gear on...oh and one of the boys had knife cuts in his shirt.

Yeah, I know. It's on the original NBC segment. I was under the impression you had some sort of information outside the segment I wasn't aware of.

and that a town miles away from rthat town also experienced murders and they say that there was the same guy walking down the tracks the same time the othr murders were involved

I really think you're thinking of the 1984 "similar case" in Oklahoma that was mentioned, because that's not in the segment at all.

I'm very inclined to believe linda ives' account especially when she has gotten wtiness testimony.

In response to someone mentioning Bill Clinton earlier... I remember getting an e-mail from one of those conspiracy theory groups that talked about all the people who met untimely ends while working for the Clinton administration. I want to say that "The Boys on the Tracks" were included in this list. They stood out to me because they didn't actually work for the Clinton Administration, yet they were allegedly victims of it. In any case, it's interesting.

Anyone else familiar with the e-mail I'm talking about?

It is the Clinton body count. Some of the cases on the list are really stretching it but the list as a whole (I believe) is VERY truthful).

In a sick way, you can add teh 9/11/2001 victims to this list as well because Clinton had two offers from the Sudanese to take out Bin laden and he turned them away.

For me, some of the Clinton Conspiracy list stuff is stretching the connection (I haven't read it in a long time, so please bear with me) but specifically in this case, I believe Clinton to be involved simply because he kept making it easy for that corrupt medical examiner Fahmy Malik to receive salary increases and jobs within government agencies when it was already known that the guy was worse than a hack. I need to go read that list again to refresh my memory...

This case intrigued me alot, so we wrote a song about it....


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Schmackey-and-the-Salads/143531522351088?v=app_178091127385

I don't buy the connection with the Clinton administration. It just doesn't make any sense.
Were these boys killed because of something they saw?
possibly.
Was it done on a level higher than the low-level dealers or ordered by a level higher than them?
Probably not.

This is actually one of the few segments of the show that could actually be described as being an "Unsolved Mystery."

I should clarify my comment from a few months ago. It's sounds like I'm saying Clinton is involved, but what I meant was that I believe his involvement to be limited to the fact that he continued to allow Malik to obtain salary increases and jobs within the state government after it was known that the guy was deliberately botching cases.

Sorry to dig up an old post, but I just watched this segment again for the first time in a long time and after reading some of the other posts and the research people have done I just have to say I think the Clinton connection is totally far fetched. I think the most believable scenario would be the boys tried to rip off a drug dealer and he killed them.

In the scenario where they walked up on a drug drop its somewhat believable up to the point where it said Henry fired his rifle. Id tend to think that an action like that and running would get you instantly shot

Another thing I find intruiging is that they mentioned in the segment that an identical situation happened 3 years before Don and Kevin were murdered. Is there any connection between the two?

I don't buy the massive conspiracy coverup. To believe that this was a federal ran and "protected" drug drop would mean that virtually EVERYONE involved in this case (all the way down to the paramedics on the scene) are all immoral and willing to cover up the murders of two innocent boys. To believe in ANY conspiracy theory, you have to accept the fact that there's a whole myriad of other conspiracies within the main conspiracy. I'm not saying there's no such thing as corruption, because it exists everywhere. I'm just saying that it's more likely, IMO, that the "coverup" in this case is nothing more than a botched investigation where the LE agency went through great lengths to rush judgement and refuse to admit their mistakes. So in a way, yes there was a coverup involved, but I don't think it was done to protect who murdered the boys.

I think one of two things happened with Henry and Ives. One may have been them innocently stumbling onto a drug deal/drop area where they were surprised from behind by their killer/s. But the violent nature of their deaths and attempted coverup suggests otherwise, IMO. Laying the boys out on the tracks seems like a rushed, hurried decision and not to mention pretty ballsy. What would have happened had the train came around at the moment the killers were laying the boys on the tracks? And why not take the bodies out of the wooded area and dump them elsewhere? Why even kill the boys at all? What are the odds that the boys would have been able to identify the dealers? The other theory is that Henry and Ives ripped off a drug dealer and he killed them in retaliation. I believe in an old post someone said there was even a confession from the killer's ex-girlfriend who said that Henry and Ives ripped of cocaine from the drug dealer and he killed them for it. IMHO, this seems more likely due to the brutal nature of their deaths. I've always thought whoever laid them out the tracks had to have had such extreme animosity towards them to where they would let them get ran over by a 6,000 ton train, and not even bother to make sure if they were dead at the time. And I think a ripped off drug dealer would have more animosity over someone who was discovered by two unknown innocent teenage boys.

I have always thought that the individual in the army fatigues that shot at the police officer was responsible.

Today is the 25th anniversary of their deaths. :(

Just Finishing The Boys on the Tracks, the book written about this case. Interesting read. If Fahmy Malak was competent, the case probably could have been solved (or at least a lot of questions answered) early on. Malak's incompetence is well documented and he single-handedly kept Virginia Kelley from getting into trouble for her own incompetence as a nurse.

The Ives/Henry case is a sad one indeed.

I should clarify my comment from a few months ago. It's sounds like I'm saying Clinton is involved, but what I meant was that I believe his involvement to be limited to the fact that he continued to allow Malik to obtain salary increases and jobs within the state government after it was known that the guy was deliberately botching cases.


Right on. The Boys on the Tracks documents this very well. Clinton was not directly involved, but he did NOTHING to investigate the murders. In some ways, his refusal to fire Malak did serve as a cover-up. He didn't try to distance himself from Malak until 1991 when it was politically expedient to do so. He refused to meet with Mrs. Ives on numerous occasions.

I don't buy the massive conspiracy coverup. To believe that this was a federal ran and "protected" drug drop would mean that virtually EVERYONE involved in this case (all the way down to the paramedics on the scene) are all immoral and willing to cover up the murders of two innocent boys. To believe in ANY conspiracy theory, you have to accept the fact that there's a whole myriad of other conspiracies within the main conspiracy. I'm not saying there's no such thing as corruption, because it exists everywhere. I'm just saying that it's more likely, IMO, that the "coverup" in this case is nothing more than a botched investigation where the LE agency went through great lengths to rush judgement and refuse to admit their mistakes. So in a way, yes there was a coverup involved, but I don't think it was done to protect who murdered the boys.

I think one of two things happened with Henry and Ives. One may have been them innocently stumbling onto a drug deal/drop area where they were surprised from behind by their killer/s. But the violent nature of their deaths and attempted coverup suggests otherwise, IMO. Laying the boys out on the tracks seems like a rushed, hurried decision and not to mention pretty ballsy. What would have happened had the train came around at the moment the killers were laying the boys on the tracks? And why not take the bodies out of the wooded area and dump them elsewhere? Why even kill the boys at all? What are the odds that the boys would have been able to identify the dealers? The other theory is that Henry and Ives ripped off a drug dealer and he killed them in retaliation. I believe in an old post someone said there was even a confession from the killer's ex-girlfriend who said that Henry and Ives ripped of cocaine from the drug dealer and he killed them for it. IMHO, this seems more likely due to the brutal nature of their deaths. I've always thought whoever laid them out the tracks had to have had such extreme animosity towards them to where they would let them get ran over by a 6,000 ton train, and not even bother to make sure if they were dead at the time. And I think a ripped off drug dealer would have more animosity over someone who was discovered by two unknown innocent teenage boys.

Again, I recommend The Boys on the Tracks. One of the most disturbing aspects of the book is the fact that Kevin's father could have potentially run over his own son if his route hadn't been changed. Larry Ives worked for the railroad company that went through Bryant. His route was the very route that Ives and Henry were laid on. Just 2 months prior to their murders, he was given a new route. I have nothing but sympathy for the Ives family and teh way they were treated by state and local governments (to include the police, Dan Harmon, etc.).

Again, I recommend The Boys on the Tracks. One of the most disturbing aspects of the book is the fact that Kevin's father could have potentially run over his own son if his route hadn't been changed. Larry Ives worked for the railroad company that went through Bryant. His route was the very route that Ives and Henry were laid on. Just 2 months prior to their murders, he was given a new route. I have nothing but sympathy for the Ives family and teh way they were treated by state and local governments (to include the police, Dan Harmon, etc.).

I concur in full.

fyi, amazon has the kindle edition of the book for $9.99

OT - I'm one of those people who likes to read real books with paper pages, but since I bought my first ever smart phone a few months ago, it came with a free kindle app and I downloaded a few free books. Very convenient for filling in some time at waiting rooms and stuff with reading a book on your phone instead of lugging around a real book or just playing cell phone solitaire. :)

I think I'll go ahead and get the kindle version of this book. Thanks for the recommendations everyone.

Just bought the kindle version. Most reviewer complaints were about lax editing. Gonna read it now. Will share my opinions soon.

I'm in the middle of the 5th chapter of the book. The reviews on amazon about the kindle version being poorly edited is correct, but at this point, it's not a totally horrible job. There are half of words missing and stuff like that but you can mostly figure out the meaning of those sentences.

On to my opinion of Fahmy Malak. Is he still alive? I actually HATE this guy. He's not only corrupt and incompetent but unbelievably cruel. Whenever he met with the boys' parents he was offensive, defensive, arrogant, condescending, and dismissive. He made the parents and everyone else who visited his office pose for polaroids to keep a photographic record of their visit. He also continually threatened to show the the parents autopsy photos of their kids every time they asked a question he didn't like.

His opinion was that they boys were so stoned, they passed out on the tracks and got run over and killed by the train. To prove the high level of marijuana in their systems he kept trying to show photos of body parts. In one meeting, one of the cops finally confiscated the multiple envelopes of autopsy photos Malak had placed in front of the parents to keep Malak from opening them and showing the photos.

Malak refused court orders but finally when he showed up to a hearing, he refused to testify unless he could "show his evidence" which of course was the gruesome photos. Attorneys tried to block the display, since it was not a closed proceeding and the audience included friends, relatives, and parents of the kids, but the judge allowed them to be shown.

The parents left the room for that part of the testimony. Malak had the photos blown up into poster sizes and used these to "prove" there was pot in the boys' blood. Just exactly HOW photos of violently severed body parts proved his blood testing samples showed excessive use of pot was never explained.

IMO, the guy got off on this. Personally, I put him up there with serial killers getting enjoyment out the violence, torment, torture, and gruesomeness of their crimes. This idiot just happens to have a medical degree, but he's disturbed, disgusting, and beyond vile.

Is he still alive?

Indeed he is. He is currently in private practice as a general practioner in the Clearwater, FL area.

fyi, amazon has the kindle edition of the book for $9.99

OT - I'm one of those people who likes to read real books with paper pages, but since I bought my first ever smart phone a few months ago, it came with a free kindle app and I downloaded a few free books. Very convenient for filling in some time at waiting rooms and stuff with reading a book on your phone instead of lugging around a real book or just playing cell phone solitaire. :)

I think I'll go ahead and get the kindle version of this book. Thanks for the recommendations everyone.


Agreed...nothing can beat a hardcopy version of a book.

Indeed he is. He is currently in private practice as a general practioner in the Clearwater, FL area.


Oh dear. I can't believe he's still capable of working (if you can call anything he ever did "work".) I wonder if people in the area know his history.

Even though I already knew he was some kind of goofball, the stuff I'm reading about him in this book is shocking especially considering that he was supposed to be a medical professional in a very important and serious position.

As a lifelong pot smoker, this guys initial conclusion that a couple of children would take a nap on train tracks after smoking a joint just shows his lack of education and likely brain capacity.

As a lifelong pot smoker, this guys initial conclusion that a couple of children would take a nap on train tracks after smoking a joint just shows his lack of education and likely brain capacity.

Even someone who drank a ton of alcohol would have stirred after hearing that loud train horn. They were either dead or near death when that train hit them, IMO.

The mystery surrounding the murder of Kevin Ives and Don Henry was the subject of a repeat episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" with Dennis Farina I watched the other week on 7mate. I found it affected me to such a degree that I admit I had a few sleepless nights for several days afterwards! I don't know if it was due to the disturbing nature of their deaths, the haunting reenactment of their final hours or even just the classroom snapshot capturing a moment suspended in time in the all-too-brief lives of these young men. But, for some reason it resonated heavily on my psyche. After researching online I recalled seeing the still previously when I was a teen myself in a magazine article associating their deaths with the "Clinton Body Count." I also came across the documentary "Obstruction of Justice: The Mena Connection," which I plan to watch when I get a chance as I'm interested to learn who the parents suspect in robbing them of their sons. Now I understand that Henry had been stabbed in the back and Ives's skull had been crushed prior to them being placed on the railroad tracks. But, what I'm intrigued about is the reference to a similar case in 1984 in Hodgen, OK, in which two young men lying together on the railroad tracks were run over in a position nearly identical to Henry and Ives. Has there been any further investigation and development into this separate case and whether it had any connections with the murder of Henry and Ives?

But, what I'm intrigued about is the reference to a similar case in 1984 in Hodgen, OK, in which two young men lying together on the railroad tracks were run over in a position nearly identical to Henry and Ives. Has there been any further investigation and development into this separate case and whether it had any connections with the murder of Henry and Ives?

Welcome, tomtom1. The Hodgen case is something of an unsolved mystery in and of itself insomuch that no one on this board, to my knowledge, has ever been able to find the article or any other information online about it.

I myself have tried searching by the article headline shown in the segment, attempting to make numerous guesses as to what the actual newspaper might be with no luck. I have spent literal hours searching the Federal Railroad Administration's accident report database (their archives go back over 40 years) with no results that precisely match my inquiry, which consisted of year 1984 and multiple locations in and around the Hodgen, OK area.

So I have no idea what to make of it. I am extremely curious about what happened in that case.

I find it adorable that TomTom mentions the case being presented by Farina like it was never presented by Stack, we have much to learn, welcome!

I find it adorable that TomTom mentions the case being presented by Farina like it was never presented by Stack, we have much to learn, welcome!

There's nothing in that post that indicates he or she is unaware that Robert Stack previously hosted the series. And even if he or she was, so what? The last thing anything wants when they join a message board is to be patronized right off the bat. One of the reasons this board is so great is because its members don't generally go out of their way to be exclusive--which is a rarity, and I think a refreshing one at that.

Actually I do know who Stack is ernmerica :D I grew up watching the show with him hosting it. Although I do recall watching it when Karl Malden was host! That's how old I am! And I actually enjoyed his presence and narration to a degree more than Stack's. Here in the land "down under," however, the show has had a sporadic broadcasting history. I recall it was on from the late 1980s to the mid-1990s before it disappeared off air altogether until last year when I noted it was being repeated, but with Dennis Farina as host. Thus, the reason why I mentioned specifically Farina was to clarify that I had viewed the UM episode of Don Henry and Kevin Ives with Farina's narration of the case rather than Stack's since they're the episodes that's being broadcast here in Australia. Also, there is a picture of both Stack and Farina at the top of the page. And to MegtheEgg86 thanks for having my back! ;)

BTW I watched on youtube just last night the UM episode about Norman Ladner and the strange parallels it has with the murders of Henry & Ives. It's intriguing that we have the "ghost case" of the 1984 train deaths (as Garrett referenced it) occurring in OK; while a couple of years later there was the case of Henry & Ives in the neighboring state AR and then the following year the Ladner death in the neighboring state of MS. Anyway the assertion that these deaths were all drug related is definitely possible, even probable, by all accounts. Regarding the 1984 OK case, however, has anyone attempted to contact Garrett himself for further information? I haven't been able to track down any contact details so far.

Also, I don't know if anyone is aware, but for those interested there is an online petition for a renewed investigation into the deaths of Henry & Ives, which I stumbled across after reading about last month's "Boys on the Tracks" vigil in Saline County.

That is good to hear! We don't throw the F word around here to often :lol:

Hey Darkdante what video are you referring to in your first post on this thread? The Linda Ives video.

Hey Darkdante what video are you referring to in your first post on this thread? The Linda Ives video.


I think he's referring to "Obstruction of Justice" (http://www.idfiles.com/ojvid.htm) which is a documentary that the Ives family helped make. Amazon says they have one new copy left here: http://www.amazon.com/Obstruction-Justice-VHS-Various/dp/1878993887/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1347635584&sr=1-1&keywords=obstruction+of+justice .

The first link I posted is to the movie's page on the family's official website, www.idfiles.com . The "i" is for Ives and the "d" is for Jean Duffey, a deputy prosecutor for the seventh judicial district, who knew about Dan Harmon's corruption and had to go into hiding for years.

I'm not sure the family is updating their site anymore but apparently they are still keeping the site's registration current. I haven't gone through the whole thing, but the last updates I could see were from back about 1999.

I think the boys stumbled on something in the woods they shouldn't have. The only thing I wonder is that they had a shotgun. If my life is in danger and I catch a couple of drug dealers in the act I'd draw my gun on them first. Who knows, they were kids, they could have been scared.

Here is my issue, the weed has little to do with it I think. They were teenage boys and chances are they smoked weed even if their parents didn't know about it. The thing that puzzles me though is that Don came back home with Kevin (or vice versa) and talked to his father. It was 12:15am. His dad knew they were going hunting in the woods at that time and even in the segment basically tells them to have a good time and be careful. Now, I wasn't the type who had overprotective parents, but if I arrived home at 12:15 and THEN went back out my parents would have had an issue with that at 17 years old. As an adult you should know better than that and realize that this is a time at night when things happen, lots of things can happen at this time at night. I realize his father probably thought nothing of it but maybe a mention by his dad of "Hey why don't you stay in now, it's late" could have saved their lives.

It isn't negligent like Ruby's (the girl and guy who went through the ice) dad who knew full well the kids were driving their cars drunk but it is still something that could be prevented.

Okay having watched the UM segment on this, I proceeded to read everything I could find and watch the Obstructed Justice doc. Based on the information I could gather from all sources, my best speculation of what happened is:

1. The teenage boys may not have whole heartily been out hunting that night. It is very likely that, hunting was only a pretense to get out of the house and go do what teenage boys do. We know that they have been smoking pot. It is possible that the boys could've known that something was up in the general vicinity, maybe through friends, or through prior experience. It's possible that they ignorantly went to check it out and see what was up, being curious boys with no idea of the serious consequences or what they were about to stumble upon. Remember, they don't have all the information we have now, so they couldn't have possibly known that they were dealing with a big drug smuggling operation extending all the way up to the CIA.

Another consideration is, depending on how the drops worked and whether the pick ups were made during and/or immediately after the drops, the boys could've stumbled onto an earlier drop, found the cache of drugs and/or money and took some, as a previous poster mentioned. Remember that they had no idea of what was really going on and as teenage boys, if you stumbled onto an unattended cache of drugs/money like that, it would've been very enticing to take some, if only just out of initial curiosity. If this was the case, then whoever was on the recieving end of the drops may have discovered that someone had taken something from the prior shipment, and gone out to investigate the next drop.

2. Regardless of the specific details above as to why the boys were out there, the accounts describe them being confronted on the scene, and then having fled to a payphone by a grocer. It was there that the cops confronted them, a scuffle occurred and they were possibly killed. As to why the boys didn't defend themselves, well, it was the cops. People trust the police not to kill them, and regardless of that, you'd have to be in dire straits to open fire on the police. It explains why they didn't fight back despite being armed with a rifle. If it was merely some strange men on the tracks that accosted them, there likely would've been more of a struggle, or the boys would've fled straight home. They were stopped, and very likely killed by the police.

3. The boys were placed on the tracks to be "killed" off that way so there would be no questions later. If they were buried, or dissappeared, people would've gone looking. It would've screwed up the entire drug smuggling operation and got people snooping around. It's likely that given the heat of the situation, making it seem like the boys were killed by a train was the best, quick solution. Unfortunately for the killers, they didn't see it turning out like this.

It's also interesting to note the potential connection between what went on here with the greater ongoings of the Mena drug smuggling and Iran contra affair at the time. If anyone has seen the segments on the Chuck Morgan case (the escrow businessman/agent who was "suicided" in the middle of the Arizona desert under a host of mysterious circumstances,) and Danny Casolaro (the freelance journalist who was "suicided" in a hotel room for investigating the Inslaw scandal, the Octopus conspiracy, etc,) I believe that all these cases touch on the same shadowy going ons at the time involving CIA black operations and the general Iran contra affair. Everyone involved seems to have been killed to cover up that giant operation, whether it was the drug smuggling aspect of it here, the money laundering aspect, or just to keep the entire thing secret.

I've seen a lot of questions come up about how the segment mentions a similar train track incident in Hodgen, OK in 1984. I was interested in this too, and thought I would post some articles I found about the Hodgen case. The 1985 article shows the investigation focused on the drug world. But the 1988 article, which also mentions the Ives and Henry deaths, seems to say that they concluded it was an accident. (and sorry, I can't post the articles as links because I don't have 5 posts yet :rolleyes: If you want to read them, just add the http and copy/paste :D ).

Printed 7/20/1985: newsok.com/officials-to-reopen-investigation-in-deaths-of-2-men-run-over-by-train/article/2115432

Printed 5/25/88: newsok.com/death-probe-resurrects-1984-case/article/2226905

Excerpts from the 1985 article:

"There were a number of people at the time who said it was an accident," said LeFlore County District Attorney Ray Edelstein. "But people just don't go lie down on the tracks and go to sleep three miles from nowhere."

The bodies of Billy Don Hainline, 21, of Hodgens, and Dennis Decker, 26, of Heavener, were run over by a freight train on a stretch of the Kansas City Southern railroad 20 miles south of Poteau. "I think they were put there," said Sheriff Charles Hurley.

"We ruled the manner of death as unknown because the level (of alcohol) wasn't that high and then there was the fact they were lying together," said medical examiner investigator John Polmer.

I've seen a lot of questions come up about how the segment mentions a similar train track incident in Hodgen, OK in 1984. I was interested in this too, and thought I would post some articles I found about the Hodgen case. The 1985 article shows the investigation focused on the drug world. But the 1988 article, which also mentions the Ives and Henry deaths, seems to say that they concluded it was an accident. (and sorry, I can't post the articles as links because I don't have 5 posts yet :rolleyes: If you want to read them, just add the http and copy/paste :D ).

Printed 7/20/1985: newsok.com/officials-to-reopen-investigation-in-deaths-of-2-men-run-over-by-train/article/2115432

Printed 5/25/88: newsok.com/death-probe-resurrects-1984-case/article/2226905

Excerpts from the 1985 article:

"There were a number of people at the time who said it was an accident," said LeFlore County District Attorney Ray Edelstein. "But people just don't go lie down on the tracks and go to sleep three miles from nowhere."

The bodies of Billy Don Hainline, 21, of Hodgens, and Dennis Decker, 26, of Heavener, were run over by a freight train on a stretch of the Kansas City Southern railroad 20 miles south of Poteau. "I think they were put there," said Sheriff Charles Hurley.

"We ruled the manner of death as unknown because the level (of alcohol) wasn't that high and then there was the fact they were lying together," said medical examiner investigator John Polmer.

Thanks so much for digging up those elusive articles. I remember spending hours years ago trying to find them and not getting anywhere.

I'm not sure if I think these and Kevin and Don's cases are related. I kind of lean away from it actually.

Wow Alcazar!! A BIG thank you for tracking down those articles!!! I didn't have any luck at all when I tried to find such so that's great that someone finally did after all this time! Yay! Someone give Alcazar a jellybean! ;)

Um...hmm...curioser and curioser...
IDK but after reading the articles I would probably think that it's possible the deaths of Hainline and Decker also involved the drug cartels and I'd tend to agree with Sheriff Hurley who believed at the time that both young men were put on the train tracks and deliberately killed (just like Ives and Henry were later on). The article notes that: "A month after the bodies of Hainline and Decker were discovered, a clandestine methamphetamine laboratory was discovered 1 1/2 miles north of the tracks. 'That place is a haven for marijuana growers and crank labs,' Hurley said." It's also interesting that DA Edelstein alluded to a possible drug connection stating: "It is not uncommon in the drug industry for the people that don't play ball to be eliminated."

What I find a bit sus though is 1) in the 1985 articles it was reported that 1 of the men had a small amount of alcohol in his body and it's admitted by the medical examiner that "the level wasn't that high"; 2) but then in the 1988 article it's reported that alcohol was detected in both bodies and yet it was still lower than the legal limit for drunkeness; but still their deaths were ruled as "accidental"; and 3) Edelstein refused to discuss the evidence the grand jury had heard in the case.

Of course it's possible these young men simply fell asleep on the tracks, but then again it's possible Ives and Henry did too now isn't it...But, I don't buy it~

Plus to me the Ladner death too might be connected (or at the least have some possible relation to drugs) since it appears that cartels were operating heavily at the time in these neighboring states i.e. OK, AR, MS. Just my op though...

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I just discovered a 47 minute video regarding the Henry/Ives case.

I'm only about 7 minutes into it, but so far, there are videos taken at the scene, video of Malak, Kevin Ives' mother, and other people involved. You have to look for 'Lost Archives: American Midnight' youknowwhere. It's hosted by Dean Stockwell.

Not sure yet, but it looks like they might get into some conspiracy theory type stuff, but I still thought it was worth sharing because of the video/comments regarding this case. I wonder if the footage included was taken from the video that the Ives family produced back in the 90s....

It's well documented that the NSC and the office of Vice President Bush had contacts with men like Felix Rodriguez and Luis Posada Carriles. So did Eugene Hasenfaus, the man whose weapons-loaded plane went down in Nicaragua in '86. The connection to Arkansas is Barry Seal.

Does anyone know exactly how much marijuana was in the boys' systems? Or if it was active THC as opposed to the Marijuana Metabolite?

I'm just curious. I work with drug test results every day. I already have a hard time believing the boys got stoned and "fell asleep" on the railroad tracks. I would expect to see massive amounts of THC in their system if that was the case. Even though I've never heard a number, it sounds like the complete opposite is true. Which is why I'm curious if it was just the metabolite present. THAT would show that they smoked marijuana at some point but were not "actively" high at the time of death.

I need to read the book, but I agree with everyone else-- these boys were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Does anyone know exactly how much marijuana was in the boys' systems?

I'm reading the book again right now. I can't remember if the toxicology tests showed the exact amount or not. I do know that one independent ME who was hired by the boys' families only tested one of the boys and used Fahmy Malak's notes to write up his own tox results.

His explanation for doing that was something like some of Malak's numbers were close enough in his report, so the 2nd ME just assumed that Malak's info on the other boy was correct and didn't bother to perform the tests.

At least one other ME was hired and he was competent.

I can't remember if the info is in the book or in the TV show I mentioned above, but someone said that the boys smoked 1 to 2 joints at the most. IIRC this is the amount the parents believe to be correct. The boys had possibly bought $10 worth of pot that night. The officials found some of it but when Linda Ives (?? could have been the Henrys, not sure) received her son's clothing back from the police, there was another baggie of pot in the pocket.

Either the police totally overlooked the rest of that pot, or someone planted it to bolster Malak's pot overdose theory.

Not sure if this info from 2011 has been shared here. It's from the website of the woman who wrote The Boys on the Tracks. Evidently, nothing new ever came from this lead.

http://maraleveritt.com/2011/11/parents-of-saline-county-murder-victims-hope-recent-arrests-will-reopen-cold-cases/

---

More info regarding the marijuana from the family's website:

Without any supporting evidence, Malak ruled that the boys had each smoked more than twenty marijuana cigarettes and, in a psychedelic stupor, had fallen asleep on the tracks. It was later learned that the state crime lab never even tested for the concentration of marijuana and, in fact, had used a test on the boys' blood which was designed to be used on urine. Outside experts were shocked at the absurd ruling.

http://www.idfiles.com/malakvid.htm

I already have a hard time believing the boys got stoned and "fell asleep" on the railroad tracks.

IIRC, the autopsy performed by the competent ME proved the boys were murdered, and had never actually passed out on the tracks.

One boy had been stabbed and the other one had been beaten. Their lungs had a lot of blood in them. Malak even noticed it during the autopsy he performed, but he never explained that this would have to mean they were already dead by the time they were hit by the train.

IIRC, the autopsy performed by the competent ME proved the boys were murdered, and had never actually passed out on the tracks.

One boy had been stabbed and the other one had been beaten. Their lungs had a lot of blood in them. Malak even noticed it during the autopsy he performed, but he never explained that this would have to mean they were already dead by the time they were hit by the train.Malak was definitely one of the scummiest people on UM, and everything new I read about him doesn't change that opinion.

It's disturbing hearing what he got away with.

IIRC, the autopsy performed by the competent ME proved the boys were murdered, and had never actually passed out on the tracks.

One boy had been stabbed and the other one had been beaten. Their lungs had a lot of blood in them. Malak even noticed it during the autopsy he performed, but he never explained that this would have to mean they were already dead by the time they were hit by the train.

I've read that book as well, and the second autopsy had determined the boys were murdered. It still did no good for the families though, as they continued to go through a rollercoaster of b.s., even after the FBI got involved.:mad:

Malak was definitely one of the scummiest people on UM, and everything new I read about him doesn't change that opinion.

It's disturbing hearing what he got away with.
Agreed. Threatening to show the parents their sons' bodies in blown-up photos and insisting on it despite motions against it? This guy is a pathetic, cruel jerk. I really hope he's out of a job.

Agreed. Threatening to show the parents their sons' bodies in blown-up photos and insisting on it despite motions against it? This guy is a pathetic, cruel jerk. I really hope he's out of a job.


The last I heard about "Dr" Fahmy Malak was that he accepted a job in 2001, as the Chief Medical Examiner of Guam which would pay him 160.000$ a year. Bill Clinton may have helped in the appointment of "Dr" Fahmy Malak to become the Chief Medical Examiner of Guam as a reward for helping him cover up the murders of Kevin Ive and Don Henry, because Bill Clinton was in my oppion involved at some level and by extension I also believe that George HW Bush as well. I have always considered that The Clinton Crime Family was the Arkanas division of the Bush Crime Family. "Dr" Fahmey Malak was in my oppion an incompetent pyschopath who should have been put in prison for life for the horrible and terrible things he did while as the Chief Medical Examiner of Arkansas with reguards to the deaths of Kevin Ives, Don Henry and company. "Dr" Fahmey Malak belongs in prison with the likes of other criminal doctors like "Dr" Phillip Astin III (Doctor to late wrestlers Chris Benoit and Johnny Grunge) and "Dr" Conrad Murray (Doctor to late singer Michael Jackson). I don't believe that Fahmey Malak should be called "Dr" at all because he does not deserve to be called "Dr", I believe he should be called a "Quack".

"Aids is a weapon and don't forget it. It was devolped by the Department of Denfence and it's a weapon"
Colonel L Fletcher Prouty
Former Pentagon Chief of Special Opperations
The real identiy of the character X played by Donald Sutherland in the movie "JFK".

I realize his father probably thought nothing of it but maybe a mention by his dad of "Hey why don't you stay in now, it's late" could have saved their lives.

It isn't negligent like Ruby's (the girl and guy who went through the ice) dad who knew full well the kids were driving their cars drunk but it is still something that could be prevented.

I understand your point of view however in the case of Ruby 19 and Arnold 20, I'm sure the parent knew that they could not ultimately stop them from driving as they were both adults. I stopped listening to my parents at 16 so I certainly would not have taken the slightest notice at 18,19 or 20. I bet the parents did try to talk them out of it but what could they do to stop them? Arnold seems like a large bloke I would of thought it would be near impossible to remove the keys from him and even if they phoned the police an accident could well of happened before the police pulled them over.

Back to the case in question, I also give view that Don's father would not have tried to talk them into coming in at 12.15 as Don would have most likely argued the fact that he wanted to go out. I'm always a little leaniant when my boys have friends over, letting them stay up later or hang out longer. Don probably didnt want the hassle and argument with 2 testosterone full boys. I suppose even if he said no to them they probably would have just snuck out and returned before he woke up.

Did you not do the same when you were a child? I used to stay in till 10.00 (that was the time I had to be home by) then deiced I wanted to go out arguing with my parents something rotten and sneaking out any ways. When your a kid you think your invincible.

In both cases blame should not be put on the actions of the parents and their actions questioned. What they did or didn't do did not result in the deaths of any the people in question.

I'm re-reading The Boys On the Tracks and caught something this time I missed when I first read the book: less than a year after the deaths, someone put Mrs. Ives in contact with a psychic, who turned out to be none other than Carol Pate--the psychic interviewed in the Pam Page segment who gave that very memorable account of the vision she had regarding what happened to Pam. (Page and her family are originally from Arkansas, even though her disappearance occurred in Arizona.)

Interestingly, Pate told Mrs. Ives the boys had been covered with something green on the tracks (which would describe the tarp, even though no news reports at that time made mention of it), and that they had been beaten by men she thought to be police, but weren't "dressed like policemen" in her vision. This visit occurred in early 1988, long before police involvement in this case was even discovered, much less investigated. I thought this was rather remarkable--and eerie.

Interesting info Meg ! :) This case is really frightening and shocking and the murder of the boys was probably just the tip of the iceberg.....

I am curious about the book , does it have pictures of the rail tracks and the surrounding area ? + what year was it published ?

I am curious about the book , does it have pictures of the rail tracks and the surrounding area ? + what year was it published ?

There are no photographs in the book, but there are few photographs of the tracks online in various places. If you want to check it out on Google Maps, the rail crossing closest to the site where the boys were hit is located at Brookwood Road and Shobe Road in Bryant, AR. This is the site where police converged that morning. They then walked down the tracks to the actual site itself (which I believe was located close to a mile down the southwest tracks).

The book was initially published in 1999. There is a second edition, which I think may have been published around 2004 or 2005, and I am currently reading the Kindle edition, which was released in 2011. My hard copy second edition is somewhere in this house in a cardboard box; we recently moved thousands of miles across the country, so I haven't seen it in some time.

For anyone interested in this Unsolved Mysteries case I suggest you keep an eye out for the Tom Cruise film, Mena, which is to be released next year (2017). I don't know if they'll mention the murders of Kevin Ives and Don Henry or even implicate the Bush or Clinton clans. But, this is one film I'm putting on my "to watch" list :-)

PS I'd post a link to the IMDb page for the film, but cannot (I haven't made the minimum requirement of posts before one can post links) :-( Anyway just go Google it or go to IMDb to check it out further...

So i apologize for the 'lateness' but i have only been able to watch the segment recently. I don't live in USA so i dont know but i have some questions. What is spotting? and why did the boy's dad let him take a gun out of the house? Is there an age limit for people to possess firearms?

So i apologize for the 'lateness' but i have only been able to watch the segment recently. I don't live in USA so i dont know but i have some questions. What is spotting? and why did the boy's dad let him take a gun out of the house? Is there an age limit for people to possess firearms?

The term is "Spotlighting" and it involves one person shining a spotlight on the deer while the other one shoots.

While it is legal for a 16 year old to own a firearm, it is illegal to spotlight in Arkansas, so I was concerned that the father allowed it. Granted, he couldn't have known *that* would have happened, but still if he was allowing them to spotlight and possibly smoke marijuana, he should have kept better tabs on them.

Gun laws vary from state to state here, but generally the minimum age one can own a rifle or shotgun is 16 years. You must be 18 years old to purchase or own a handgun regardless of state of residence, as that's a federal law.

The term is "Spotlighting" and it involves one person shining a spotlight on the deer while the other one shoots.

While it is legal for a 16 year old to own a firearm, it is illegal to spotlight in Arkansas, so I was concerned that the father allowed it. Granted, he couldn't have known *that* would have happened, but still if he was allowing them to spotlight and possibly smoke marijuana, he should have kept better tabs on them.
How can someone 'own' a firearm at 16 but not buy one til they are 18? I don't like the idea of young people like Don on the segment having a gun and going out with it. While i'm sure he was only intending to be 'spotlighting' with it, accidents happen and somecan get hurt or killed.

Gun laws vary from state to state here, but generally the minimum age one can own a rifle or shotgun is 16 years. You must be 18 years old to purchase or own a handgun regardless of state of residence, as that's a federal law.
Well that must get confusing if every state has their own set of rules? So a person can not travel with their gun in their car from state to state because of the different rules?

Wow. I've never read the original post on this thread that DarkDante posted. With all of that information and with the specificity and details, I don't think this is a "conspiracy theory".

Well that must get confusing if every state has their own set of rules? So a person can not travel with their gun in their car from state to state because of the different rules?

Yes, it can be confusing. You can travel with a firearm in your car from state to state in most cases, but you must be aware of what the gun laws are in the states you will be traveling to or through, and you must follow them.

I'm embarrassed to say, but I've never seen this segment! I have it on DVD but I can't bring myself to watch it because it sounds so darn creepy!! This story has been discussed many times here and I think I just have to do it. I know I sound like a wimp but I'm afraid what I might see. Are certain parts of the segment graphic? Are the boys' bodies shown? (I can't handle dead bodies)

How can someone 'own' a firearm at 16 but not buy one til they are 18? I don't like the idea of young people like Don on the segment having a gun and going out with it. While i'm sure he was only intending to be 'spotlighting' with it, accidents happen and somecan get hurt or killed.

You can both purchase and own 'long guns' such as rifles and shotguns in most states at 16. Handguns (pistols and revolvers) can only be purchased and owned by citizens aged 18 years and older.

Although there is a definite problem with gun violence here in the U.S., when a firearm is handled by a person who receives and practices proper safety training (including responsible storage and security of the weapon when not in use) and follows federal and state firearm laws and regulations, the risk of an accident is actually rather low. However, you're right--people aren't perfect, and accidents do happen that can result in injury or death.

It's a pretty hotly debated topic here, as I'm sure you probably know, and there are a lot of strong feelings on it. It seems like we talk about it at least once every election year.

I still believe both boys were murdered, that they saw something illegal and that they had to be killed to keep from talking about it (same deal with the Norman Ladner case too). Marijuana, even in the amount they smoked, would not render them unconscious. You do not lay yourself on a set of train tracks next to your best friend, dead or unconscious, and have it be an "accident". Unfortunately, I feel that the train running them over probably complicated the autopsy and a more definitive cause of death was not found due to that. Don was stabbed, but how was Kevin killed? I don't remember if they said how he died.

Don was stabbed, but how was Kevin killed? I don't remember if they said how he died.

There's never been a hard conclusion on that. Kevin was at least unconscious before being run over by the train, but no one to date has ever been able to determine whether he was already dead before being placed on the tracks.

You can both purchase and own 'long guns' such as rifles and shotguns in most states at 16. Handguns (pistols and revolvers) can only be purchased and owned by citizens aged 18 years and older.

Although there is a definite problem with gun violence here in the U.S., when a firearm is handled by a person who receives and practices proper safety training (including responsible storage and security of the weapon when not in use) and follows federal and state firearm laws and regulations, the risk of an accident is actually rather low. However, you're right--people aren't perfect, and accidents do happen that can result in injury or death.

It's a pretty hotly debated topic here, as I'm sure you probably know, and there are a lot of strong feelings on it. It seems like we talk about it at least once every election year.
Well that's the thing i dont actually live in USA, I'm Australian but i live in Germany. Both countries guns are illegal except for sport or occupation and even then its a VERY strict process. I do know that in USA there have been so many shootings like Sandy Hook and Columbine. Do these happen because kids get hold of guns and they don't know what they are doing? Well i'm sorry to go off topic but if parents did what Don's dad did and let him take it out without a second thought then that too me is reckless behavior, just my opinion

I'm embarrassed to say, but I've never seen this segment! I have it on DVD but I can't bring myself to watch it because it sounds so darn creepy!! This story has been discussed many times here and I think I just have to do it. I know I sound like a wimp but I'm afraid what I might see. Are certain parts of the segment graphic? Are the boys' bodies shown? (I can't handle dead bodies)

I found the whole case quite "haunting" myself having first watched this episode when I was only a kid in the late 1980s and it's resonated with me ever since:eek: I recall seeing an article in a "conspiracy theory" magazine back in the 1990s on it as well with photos of the boys at school. I think one reason why it's always remained at the back of my mind is that Kevin Ives looked so much like one of my best mates in primary school. Idk how old you are, but as an impressionable young kid watching the show it definitely gave me the jeepers creepers--then again a lot of the cases on UM did:lol: I suggest you sit yourself down on the couch with a warm cup of cocoa and a blanket to watch it as UM did a really good job in retelling the main points of the case. Of course, they couldn't go into more details like other docos since have, but there's nothing confronting or distasteful that I remember, except for the entire case itself of course:( Let us know how well you handle it...;)

I still believe both boys were murdered, that they saw something illegal and that they had to be killed to keep from talking about it (same deal with the Norman Ladner case too). Marijuana, even in the amount they smoked, would not render them unconscious. You do not lay yourself on a set of train tracks next to your best friend, dead or unconscious, and have it be an "accident". Unfortunately, I feel that the train running them over probably complicated the autopsy and a more definitive cause of death was not found due to that. Don was stabbed, but how was Kevin killed? I don't remember if they said how he died.

I totally agree with your reasoning. Regarding the autopsy I believe it was discovered that Don had been stabbed in the back while Kevin's skull had been crushed prior to being thrown on the tracks.

I found the whole case quite "haunting" myself having first watched this episode when I was only a kid in the late 1980s and it's resonated with me ever since:eek: I recall seeing an article in a "conspiracy theory" magazine back in the 1990s on it as well with photos of the boys at school. I think one reason why it's always remained at the back of my mind is that Kevin Ives looked so much like one of my best mates in primary school. Idk how old you are, but as an impressionable young kid watching the show it definitely gave me the jeepers creepers--then again a lot of the cases on UM did:lol: I suggest you sit yourself down on the couch with a warm cup of cocoa and a blanket to watch it as UM did a really good job in retelling the main points of the case. Of course, they couldn't go into more details like other docos since have, but there's nothing confronting or distasteful that I remember, except for the entire case itself of course:( Let us know how well you handle it...;)
What other details are there that were not mentioned in UM?

What other details are there that were not mentioned in UM?

Uh...if you haven't done so already I suggest you check out the documentary by Linda Ives, the mother of Kevin, entitled Obstruction of Justice. It's available on YouTube at www.youtube.com/watch?v=965M_9BCYsw. Linda's website is www.idfiles.com/index.htm Mind you it's been a while since I watched the video, but I believe it delves into her "conspiracy theory" raising a lot of questions and if I recall correctly she also hints at who she thinks was involved or at fault in the deaths of the boys.

Uh...if you haven't done so already I suggest you check out the documentary by Linda Ives, the mother of Kevin, entitled Obstruction of Justice. It's available on YouTube at www.youtube.com/watch?v=965M_9BCYsw. Linda's website is www.idfiles.com/index.htm Mind you it's been a while since I watched the video, but I believe it delves into her "conspiracy theory" raising a lot of questions and if I recall correctly she also hints at who she thinks was involved or at fault in the deaths of the boys.

Just a heads up Spectre, I don't think we are allowed to post links from "YTbe" on here for some reason. Generally we refer to it as "the forbidden site", and give a description on how to find the video you want to share.

The video doesn't make a particularly persuasive case, honestly. Strong evidence points to the murder of the two teens, there was probably CIA drug smuggling going on in the mid '80s in Arkansas, and Bill Clinton as governor probably protected criminally incompetent bureaucrats, as do all governors and their appointees. But these things don't cohere into a massive conspiracy. The moms didn't help their case in the '90s when they aligned themselves with the most repellent anti-Clintonism.

Just a heads up Spectre, I don't think we are allowed to post links from "YTbe" on here for some reason. Generally we refer to it as "the forbidden site", and give a description on how to find the video you want to share.
Ok then i shall watch it. thanks!

The moms didn't help their case in the '90s when they aligned themselves with the most repellent anti-Clintonism.

For the record, in Mara Leveritt's The Boys on the Tracks, Linda was extremely conflicted about using anti-Clinton media outlets to publicize the story throughout the '90s. She always viewed it as a means to an end, and in fact would directly state in radio interviews that her reason for even being there to speak in the first place wasn't Bill Clinton--it was Kevin and Don. Although she appeared in the overwhelmingly discredited Clinton Chronicles, she was not at all happy with the film when she saw it in its entirety for the first time, and in fact felt perhaps the only pieces of credible information in the video was her own story about the train deaths and the resultant resistance she, her husband, and the Henrys experienced from law enforcement immediately thereafter.

Marvelle Henry--Don's stepmother--had only limited media engagement, much of it limited to the three or four years after the murders. She and Curtis moved away to Magnolia, AR some time after 1990. The families had very different opinions on the quality of the investigation after Dan Harmon (law partner of Richard Garrett, who was interviewed on the segment) took on the case: Curtis thought highly of Harmon, and Linda came to greatly distrust him as the investigation progressed. So, the two families were never ultimately united in their efforts concerning the media throughout the '90s. In fact, it can be argued that while the Ives (Linda in particular) utilized it heavily during this time, the Henrys basically stayed away from it altogether (not the least of which reasons being that Curtis Henry feared for the safety of his oldest daughter Gayla--Don's sister--who he thought could be a potential target for retaliation).

I totally agree with your reasoning. Regarding the autopsy I believe it was discovered that Don had been stabbed in the back while Kevin's skull had been crushed prior to being thrown on the tracks.

That is correct: Don was stabbed, and the injury pattern to Kevin's skull indicated that he was struck in the face with the butt of Don's rifle.

I too have always felt the two were murdered, and local and state authorities were involved in both the murder and the cover-up. I think the reason why the cover-up was perpetrated centered around cocaine. I think county prosecutor Dan Harmon was a key figure in ensuring the cover-up got off the ground and remained intact, and was perhaps actively or passively involved in the murders himself.

The extent of then-Governor Clinton's complicity, in my opinion, was his absolute reluctance to accept responsibility for the things going on in his state at the time, as well as his bizarre relationship with state medical examiner Fahmy Malak, to whom he was apparently indebted after Malak ruled favorably in the case of a 1981 surgical patient death in which Clinton's mother served as the patient's nurse anesthetist.

I think local figures--particularly Dan Harmon--are deserving of greater scrutiny and blame than Clinton will probably ever be. His inaction, however, certainly benefited those parties greatly.

For the record, in Mara Leveritt's The Boys on the Tracks, Linda was extremely conflicted about using anti-Clinton media outlets to publicize the story throughout the '90s. She always viewed it as a means to an end, and in fact would directly state in radio interviews that her reason for even being there to speak in the first place wasn't Bill Clinton--it was Kevin and Don. Although she appeared in the overwhelmingly discredited Clinton Chronicles, she was not at all happy with the film when she saw it in its entirety for the first time, and in fact felt perhaps the only pieces of credible information in the video was her own story about the train deaths and the resultant resistance she, her husband, and the Henrys experienced from law enforcement immediately thereafter.

I agree: the Henry-Ives material in the video shames the rest.

I recommend Mara Leveritt's book too*–*one of the better reported true crime books of the last 20 years.

5/24/2016 at Shobe Road Crossing, Alexander, Arkansas.
On the back of the cross is written, "WE WON'T FORGET."http://www.sarasotasailingsquadron.com/IMG_1201.JPG
http://www.sarasotasailingsquadron.com/IMG_1207.JPG

You won't learn much about Mena in a short video but Terry Reed's book http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1883955025/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=1465407580&sr=1-1 Compromised is an excellent account of the operation. Reading skills are pre-requisite. The book is 681 pages long but it does include pictures.

Terry Reed's book http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1883955025/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=1465407580&sr=1-1 Compromised is an excellent account of the operation. Reading skills are pre-requisite.

I should think so.

I should think so.

lol.


Charlie3, are those your personal photos? I've always wanted to visit the tracks but haven't had a reason to head down that way in quite some time.

I can't get over how those flowers are tied to that cross with police tape. It's a sad, profound, and chilling image.

Yes. I took those photos.
Visiting the sites leads to greater understanding of the Iran Contra operation.

I happened to stumble across Stephen Stroyer on Facebook. He's the conductor of the train that night. I wanted to reach out to him and see if he would come and visit us. But I have mixed feelings about this as of the nature of the case.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/310720-the-mysterious-arkansas-train-deaths/

The Murders

On August 23, 1987, Kevin Ives(16) and Don Henry(17) were walking along the train tracks near the "Crooked Creek" trestle in Alexander (Pulaski and Saline counties), and came across a group of men on the tracks that included local prosecutor Dan Harmon, police officers Danny Allen, Jay Campbell and Kirk Lane, and individuals named Larry Roushall, and another identified as Jim. The group were there to retrieve a drug drop, flown in from the Mena Airport in Western Arkansas, where former cocaine smuggling kingpin, Barry Seal, deceased by this point, and his crew operated out of.

Sharlene Wilson, an ex-girlfriend of Dan Harmon, who arrived in a car with Dan Harmon and Larry Roushall earlier, stayed in the car, which was parked on a dirt road, more than a mile from the scene on the tracks. She continued to get "high" in the car, doing cocaine and crystal meth while she waited.

A group of kids were nearby in the woods, by the tracks, watching as Kevin and Don approached along the tracks, carrying their rifle, and when Kevin and Don saw the group of men on the tracks further ahead of them, they hesitated, and started to turn around and go the other way, but were called out by Dan Harmon to come to them.

When Kevin and Don hesitated, according to witness Tommy Niehaus, one of the kids watching from the bushes, a shot was fired. Tommy didn't see who fired the shot as his head was turned at that exact moment, but he did see Kevin and Don take off, just before his group, hidden in the bushes, did likewise.

Tommy says he knew it was Dan Harmon that had yelled to Kevin and Don to come to them because Tommy's mother was dating Harmon at the time making recognition easy.


Kevin and Don, no doubt running as fast as they could, ran into their friend Keith Coney, who gave them a lift on his motorcycle to the Ranchette grocery store, to a pay phone located there.

Back on the dirt road, while sitting in the car still doing drugs, Sharlene Wilson saw Tommy Niehaus emerge from the woods, running away.


Meanwhile, at the Ranchette grocery store, officers Jay Campbell and Kirk Lane showed up in their unmarked(but easily recognized by it's model, antennae configuration etc) police cruiser.

Keith Coney took off on his motorcycle and Kevin and Don were grabbed and beaten by Campbell and Lane and thrown into the back of the cruiser, and taken back to the tracks where Harmon and the others still were.

There were THREE witnesses to that event at the grocery store...

Club owner Mike Crook told State Police that a drifter known as Jerry relayed to him that he saw 2 police officers beating the boys at the store and throwing them into the back of the cruiser.

Another witness, Ronnie Godwin, told State Police that he was driving by when he saw 2 officers beating 2 boys at the store parking lot. He drove past and pulled into another lot, and witnessed the beating, including one of the officers hitting one of the boys(Kevin Ives) with the butt end of a rifle, then throwing them into the back of the cruiser and heading off to a dirt road towards the tracks. Godwin said he then observed them coming back after 10-15 minutes, not with kids in the back seat, but what appeared to be a rather large, dark bag(likely a part of the drug drop)

The third witness was Keith Coney, who after taking off from the Ranchette grocery store, went to a club called the Wagon Wheel, where Keith Mckaksle worked as a bouncer, and told Mckaskle what had happened. Mckaksle at that point headed out to the tracks himself.

Coney, never told authorities what he knew and saw, and would only tell his mother that he saw "two men" kill Kevin and Don... he told his father however, that it "was the cops" who killed Kevin and Don.


Officers Jay Campbell and Kirk Lane, after beating the boys senseless at the store parking lot, took them back to the tracks where Dan Harmon, Larry Roushall and the others were waiting(and taking care and account of the drop), then they themselves left the scene(with a large bag now in the backseat).

Keith Mckaskle, who was into the drug scene, selling from the Wagon Wheel, also showed up at the tracks either before or after the boys were brought back there.

At this point, a very high Sharlene Wilson finally leaves the car and makes her way to the tracks where Dan Harmon, Larry Roushall, Danny Allen, Keith Mckaskle and "Jim" now have the boys, tied up and face down on the tracks.

A previous drug drop had been stolen from, and the group led by Harmon, interrogated the boys to see what they knew... or possibly only Don Henry... Kevin Ives might have already been dead by this point from the rifle butt blow to the face.

Roushall asked Wilson if she had her knife, which she produced, and according to her, Harmon, Roushall, and Mckaskle, all goaded her into stabbing one of the boys, saying things like she wouldn't be "big time" until she "killed someone".

Wilson admits to stabbing one of the boys in the back but states "I didn't stab him deeply".

She threw the knife down and states that Mckaskle picked it up and walked over and killed Don Henry, while Roushall "finished off the other young man"... presumably Kevin Ives, if he wasn't already dead by this point.


The group, led by Harmon, loaded the rest of the drug drop... of the remainder of the shipment that Campbell and Lane took... into Wilson's car.

They then wrapped Kevin and Don up in a "tarp" from Wilson's car and put them in the trunk.

Then... "They moved up the track a little ways and removed the boys and laid them across the tracks" according to Wilson, who says at that point she freaked out and started running away from the scene.

Harmon and Mckaskle caught up to Wilson and brought her back... Harmon, Roushall, and Wilson left in Wilson's car, with the drugs, back to Wilson's trailer... The drugs were transferred into Roushall's vehicle and he left... Harmon went inside with Wilson, who did more drugs including valium and passed out.

The next day(Aug 24), Wilson saw blood in her car... Harmon and Mckaskle took it to destroy it, and Harmon gave Wilson an ounce of cocaine and $500.00 and sent her on her way to deliver the cocaine.



The Train Hit, the Investigation and the Cover Up

At approximately 4:25 a.m., August 24, a Pacific Union freight train came bearing down on the boys, who layed, side by side, motionless, across the tracks.

Engineer Shroyer sounded the horn... all three engineers witnessed the impending horror they were helpless to do anything about... all three also witnessed that the boys did not move or even flinch, despite thousands of tons of screeching steel braking in a futile attempt to halt, as well as the trains blaring horns screaming aloud... Witnesses from as far as 2 miles away were awoken from the sounds of the train's blaring actions.

All 3 engineers also saw that the boys were wrapped in a green tarp.


The engineers were the first to see what remained. They, as well as the medical first responders, who arrived within about a dozen minutes, noticed something rather odd immediately... The lack of blood at the scene, and the condition of the blood in the body parts. The blood was purple in color, and rather thick and oozing, indicating the boys had already been dead for some time before the train had hit.

Despite this, the police immediately treated the scene as an "accident"... denied the existence of a tarp, even though it was right there in the bushes off to the side... further destroyed the scene with the movement of trains... and even left behind Kevin Ives' foot right on the tracks, which was found the next day by a member of the Henry family.


Enter State Medical Examiner, Fahmy Malak.

Malak, an unbelievably corrupt "Medical Examiner" who has a long record of obvious wrong conclusions and dubious testimonies, well documented in even the Los Angeles Times, and who also once cleared then Arkansas Governor, Bill Clinton's mother, Virginia Kelly, from an accidental death case, ruled that Kevin and Don had smoked 20 pot joints and fell asleep on the tracks and a coma-like state.

Naturally, this ridiculous ruling wouldn't sit well with the families who, led by Linda Ives, Kevin's mother, started to question such what actually happened.


This led to creation of a Grand Jury that was led by... get this... Dan Harmon!... and his friend, local assistant prosecutor, Richard Garrett.

The FBI would later learn that Dan Harmon was at Judge John Cole's house, with Benton Police Chief, Rick Elmendorf, when Harmon himself suggested to Judge Cole, that he be appointed "special prosecutor" for the case.

The Grand Jury began... Kevin and Don's bodied were exhumed... and a team of out of state pathologists where brought in, led by Atlanta's Dr Joseph Burton.

They ruled that Kevin and Don had been killed BEFORE they were placed on the tracks... that Kevin's face had been smashed in, likely by the butt of a rifle(probably at the grocery store parking lot)... and that Don has been stabbed in the back(probably by Sharlene Wilson's knife). This would also explain the condition of the blood as first seen by the train's engineers and medical first responders.


During the course of the Grand Jury, Keith Coney and Keith Mckaskle were themselves murdered, but the Police, such as Dan Birdsong, would give press statements saying they didn't believe there was any connection.

The Grand Jury came to an end on Dec 31 1988 with only the conclusion that the boys were victims of Homicide being allowed into the public record.

All the evidence acquired by the Grand Jury was not allowed, by Judge John Cole, to be entered into the record, much to the dismay of the Jury members, and it was all shut down with no resolution for the families... other than their boys' were murdered.


During all this time, there were demonstrations with large crowds gathered at the hospital demanding the firing/resignation of Fahmy Malak, which would be highlighted all over the local and State news.

But, then-Governor Bill Clinton, stood by Malak every step of the way, telling reporters Malak was just tired, stressed out, and over-worked. Sentiments shared by State Medical Commission head, and Malak's immediate boss, Joycelyn Elders.

They even tried to push a 41% pay raise through for Malak.

Here's something else interesting about Elders...

Clinton took her to the White House with him in 1993, and named her United States Surgeon General... Her son Kevin, then a cocaine addict(of all things), was busted selling cocaine to undercover agents... He was sentenced to 10 years... but released on bail, and during the appeal hearings, the main witness against him, Calvin Walraven, suddenly committed "suicide", allowing for a reversal of sentence... Hmmm.



The Cover Up Continues

By 1990, Jean Duffy, was put in charge of the 7th Judicial District Drug Task Force, which included Saline County, and others.

Her task force, looking into drug trafficking and money laundering, immediately discovered many connections from the street level, leading up the chain to public officials, and one name that kept coming up frequently was Dan Harmon.

Eventually, one of Duffy's officers approached her, and suggested he had evidence that tied their drug investigations to the murders of Kevin and Don, and wanted to pursue the matter, to which Duffey agreed.

Then Harmon, who was prosecutor-elect by that point, launched a media smear campaign against Duffey accusing her of all kinds of sinister things, and ultimately, Judge John Cole issued a State subpoena for her and ALL of her Task Force files.

Duffey had kept quiet up till that point because she was sharing her information with a Federal investigation into Saline drugs and corruption, being run at the time by U.S. Attorney Chuck Banks and his assistant, Bob Govar.

Govar had promised Duffey that indictments against Harmon and others were coming, but Banks shut down the investigation in June 1991, publicly clearing Dan Harmon and all others of any wrongdoing.

Soon after the subpoena by Judge Cole, Duffey fled the State and went on to become a teacher in Texas.


Sometime around when Jean Duffey took over as head of the Task Force and during Banks and Govars' federal investigation into Saline County drugs and corruption, Sharlene Wilson had given secret testimony to the Federal investigation, with much of it implicating Dan Harmon.

Eventually Harmon found out, and on New Years Eve 1992, Harmon himself not only busted Sharlene Wilson for a small amount of drugs, plus weapons charges, but was the prosecutor in the 1993 trial which sentenced Sharlene Wilson to 31 years in jail as a result.

Also, more unsolved murders of witnesses to the Ives-Henry murders, much like Keith Coney and Keith Mckaskle(participant, in his case), would turn up murdered over the years... as many as 7 or 8, and possibly more.

Duffey knew these murders were tied to the case, and is one of the reasons she didn't want to give all the Task Force's file over to Judge Cole, Harmon and company... to avoid any more witnesses getting killed... that, and she didn't want to become a victim herself.

Wilson was one of the informants that Duffey used, and Duffey completely vouches for Wilson's information, and states that everything Wilson had told Duffey, had "panned out" as correct.


Linda Ives, who was still, and has never stopped, fighting for Justice for her son's murder, at that point had never conversed with Jean Duffey.

Linda still believed in Dan Harmon and Richard Garrett, who told her that despite the Grand Jury being over, they would not stop investigating. So she believed the lies coming from Harmon and the media about Duffey at that point in time.


In 1993, new to the area, Saline Detective John Brown got involved in the case.

Some of the things that he was able to dig up have proved to be invaluable to the case, including a video taped confession, as well as a 4-page confession letter, signed in front of 3 local officials on May 28 1993, by Sharlene Wilson, who admits to stabbing one of the boys, and names people at the tracks, including Dan Harmon, Larry Roushall, Keith Mckaksle, and so on.

Another witness, Tommy Niehaus, who was one of the kids hiding in the bushes at the scene, came forward with what he knew and saw, including Dan Harmon being at the tracks. Niehaus passed polygraphs and was put into protective custody... He also gave video statements of what he witnessed the night of Kevin and Don's murders.

Then Dan Harmon launched a crusade against Det. John Brown, who started to experience what Jean Duffey went through, which in turn eventually led to Brown's resignation out of fear.

Wilson's confession letter, which Linda Ives knew about, was "discredited" at the time and then "lost", like much of the original evidence from the case... as noted in a couple of FBI Reports.


Enter the FBI's Phyllis Cournan, in 1994, who started an investigation, and got in touch with Jean Duffey, and eventually cleared her name of any wrongdoing.

Duffey and Linda Ives finally connect, and Linda now realizes, between everything that Brown discovered and what Duffey was saying, she only now understands all the truth of the situation in regards to Harmon and his actions and deceptions.

The FBI concludes that it "appears that certain Saline County officials may have conspired to cover up the investigation into the deaths of Don Henry and Kevin Ives" says one Report.

There are hundreds of such Reports(302's) that all say the same thing... Officials covered up the murders of Kevin and Don, Officials are involved in the drug trade in Saline and surrounding counties, "special prosecutor"(Dan Harmon) used his position to cover up and withhold evidence, and so on.

In fact, there are THOUSANDS of documents overall, relating to the murders of Kevin and Don, by the various agencies including the FBI, CIA, DEA, DIA, ASP, and so on, that are STILL, to this day, kept hidden and redacted... and WHY?... because it's a still "on-going investigation"... If you can believe that.

In 1996, Cournan was pressured off the case, and eventually ran out of the FBI, while Linda Ives was told "a crime has not been committed" by FBI agent Bill Temple.


In 1996, Dan Harmon would FINALLY get caught for his nefarious ways, getting busted for using his Office for Racketeering and drug charges and he would be sentenced to 10 years in jail.

The case was not allowed, however, to look at anything involving Harmon beyond the scope of the charges he was facing... meaning anything done earlier on Harmon, such as Jean Duffey's, Chuck Banks'. or John Brown's investigations, would not be allowed to be looked at. So no Justice for Kevin and Don still.

At any rate, he was convicted on 7 felonies... got 10 years... was released in 9 years... then got arrested on drug charges again in 2010.


Also in May of 1996, film maker Pat Matrisciana, released "Obstruction of Justice: The Mena Connection" which was oversaw by Linda Ives and Jean Duffey.

In the video, officers Jay Campbell and Kirk Lane are named, with others, as suspects in the murders of Kevin and Don.

This led to Campbell and Lane to sue film-maker Matrisciana for libel.

They lost their case on appeal in 2001, and what's interesting, is that they set out to prove that Matrisciana was reckless in listing their names, but in the trial, tried to prove they had nothing to do with the murders of Kevin and Don to begin with.

The court did not believe them and they lost their case.

Detective John Brown at this point had turned, and testified in the trial FOR Campbell and Lane, shocking Linda Ives and Jean Duffey.


In 1999, Sharlene Wilson's 31-year prison sentence was commuted by then-Governor Mike Huckabee, and she was released on December 31 1999.

This was due to Harmon's 1996 arrest and 1997 convictions, combined with public and church groups campaigning her release.

She was never questioned by authorities about any of the 1980's activities relating to the murders of Kevin and Don, despite the confession letter she wrote six years earlier in 1993.


Later, in the 2000's and on, Jay Campbell and his wife would be arrested on many drug charges, among others, and sentenced to decades' long terms in jail.

Former assistant US Attorney Bob Govar(another turncoat) would also get arrested alongside Campbell as well, but would weasel his way out of the charges.


Fast forward to the 2010's, and in 2012, the 25th anniversary of Kevin and Don's murders, Saline CID Detective Mike Frost gives a News interview saying he's the lead detective on the Ives/Henry case, and has found no evidence that any witnesses actually saw Kevin and Don on the tracks, despite the matching, polygraph-passed, testimony given by both Sharlene Wilson and Tommy Niehaus, who did not know each other, almost 20 years earlier.

Not to mention that the confession letter written by Wilson in 1993 is still hidden away in the original case files... though unknown by Linda Ives at this point.

In 2014, Frost and his boss, Bruce Pennington both get arrested and eventually sent to jail for a short term... leaving one to wonder exactly HOW MUCH effort they spent into trying to "solve" the case while they were on it.

Pennington, like Harmon, would get busted a second time as well. This time in 2015.


Also in 2015, a retired Saline detective friend of Linda Ives managed to get into the original case files, and extract Sharlene Wilson's 4-page confession letter, and examined everything in it against the evidence available in the case, and found it to be highly credible after-all. The fact that it was "discredited" and hidden away decades earlier, turned out to be just a part of the overall cover up.

Linda Ives and her retired police friend took the letter to Saline Prosecutor, Ken Casady, who in turn was hostile to them both, wouldn't look at the confession letter, and told them to take it to the Saline County Sheriff.

That is exactly what Linda Ives did, and take a WILD guess at WHO the Saline County Sheriff is... Sheriff Rodney Wright, who just so happens to be Dan Harmon's nephew! :blink:

He told them he would need a warrant from Casady to bring in Sharlene Wilson, to which Casady later replied(and probably correctly so, given his official capacity) that it was not his job to issue warrants.

The best he would offer was to ask the Arkansas State Police to get involved in the matter, and it would be up to them if they accepted the matter or not.

The only problem with that, is that the ASP have ALREADY been involved in the case since the 1980's, and the withholding of documents, is just one aspect of the cover up on their part, going back decades... So how can one hardly expect the ASP to some in and save the day.


On August 24 2016, Linda Ives launched a FIOA against the United States of America, through it's agencies:

The CIA, DIA, DOJ, DHS, DEA, FBI, the United States Attorney's Office, and the United States Department of State

As well as the State of Arkansas, through its agencies:

The Arkansas State Police, the Bryant Police Department, the Saline County Sheriff's Office

The suit is for Linda to receive ALL the files from the aforementioned agencies, with no redactions.

It's been 30 years now. She is entitled to know why her son was killed.

The government's response?... To ask the court to dismiss the suit because it's an "ongoing investigation".


And that's where it stands at the moment.

I wish Linda all the best in finally getting justice for the boys.

This has got to be one of (if not THE) the most intriguing cases on UM.

Ive been following this case on this website for some time. It infuriates me when I read about how insane this cover up is. My cousins, who I will not name live in a neighboring county to where this happened. They own a large amount of farmland. I will not say what they farm. During the late 80's my uncle and his boys, my cousins, found large bags of drugs on 2 different times. The first time my uncle went to the county sheriff. Sheriff knew the family well and told my uncle it would be handled. 2 years later they found even more bundled drugs. This time after notifying the sheriff, Dan Harmon and 2 ASP troopers showed up. My uncle died without ever saying exactly what Harmon said to him.

The corruption in and around this part of Arkansas is directly tied to Mena Arkansas and its airport. The drug running and how it corrupted the entire law enforcement agencies from the local sheriff to the Feds is sickening. Funny how there is a major Hollywood movie about Barry Seal now out. I cant wait to see how accurate it is.

Out of all the private messages I've ever gotten on this board from non-regular posters the near decade I've been a member here, this case is by far the most discussed.

I've never been entirely sold on Sharline Wilson's version of events, but I do definitely think Dan Harmon was at the tracks that night and that he is the main party responsible for driving the truth about this case underground.

Ive been following this case on this website for some time. It infuriates me when I read about how insane this cover up is. My cousins, who I will not name live in a neighboring county to where this happened. They own a large amount of farmland. I will not say what they farm. During the late 80's my uncle and his boys, my cousins, found large bags of drugs on 2 different times. The first time my uncle went to the county sheriff. Sheriff knew the family well and told my uncle it would be handled. 2 years later they found even more bundled drugs. This time after notifying the sheriff, Dan Harmon and 2 ASP troopers showed up. My uncle died without ever saying exactly what Harmon said to him.

The corruption in and around this part of Arkansas is directly tied to Mena Arkansas and its airport. The drug running and how it corrupted the entire law enforcement agencies from the local sheriff to the Feds is sickening. Funny how there is a major Hollywood movie about Barry Seal now out. I cant wait to see how accurate it is.

This all, and the Arkansas Times has a great article about it this month. I used to call a great deal of this story an out and out myth but now....I think it's clear why there has never been justice in this case.

https://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/whos-afraid-of-barry-seal/Content?oid=9950116

Just read in the description of "Murder on the Tracks" video on YouTube (https://youtu.be/ow0yPO8g9YA) that Linda Ives appeared on a Reddit AMA on Wed June 7, 2017. I didn't see anyone else mentioning it so far so I thought to share. I'm going to read through it when I get some time to myself.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6fx50w/murder_on_the_tracks_kevin_ives_don_henry_linda/?sort=new

Oh dear. She wrote "I believe Pizzagate was real." Glad I stopped reading.

Oh dear. She wrote "I believe Pizzagate was real." Glad I stopped reading.

Had forgotten what Pizzagate was. Thanks for THAT trip down the rabbit hole... ;)

I happened to stumble across Stephen Stroyer on Facebook. He's the conductor of the train that night. I wanted to reach out to him and see if he would come and visit us. But I have mixed feelings about this as of the nature of the case.

Personally, I wouldn't. I felt so bad for him. It was clear he felt guilt over the incident, even though it was not his fault and there was literally nothing he could've done. I'm sure it's not something he really wants to have to discuss, some thirty years on...:(

Had forgotten what Pizzagate was. Thanks for THAT trip down the rabbit hole... ;)

Clinton conspiracy theories are in their own category of bonkers. It's possible to believe, as I do, that as governor he likely covered up for menials while regarding CLINTON BODY COUNTS WHOA NELLY as sewage.

Oh dear. She wrote "I believe Pizzagate was real." Glad I stopped reading.

Like your good self I hesitated, for a moment, to read on when I came across her comment concerning Pizzagate too. To be fair, however, I don't know if Pizzagate (or elements thereof) is true or not. So I didn't let her opinion on that controversial issue sway me from continuing to learn a little more about her personal experience in relation to her son and his friend's murder. Suffice to say I'm glad I did. I'll have to put Terry Reed's classic, "Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA," on my "Summer Reading List" as it was mentioned along with Riley Waggaman's article http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/lawsuit-could-sink-clintons-linda-ives-says-she-can-prove-feds-covered-her-sons-murder I just read now revealing the latest delay in Linda Ives's case.

Also, is there anyone that can answer (or direct me to a site detailing) whatever happened to Fahmy Malak? And am I the only one that whenever I see him in videos I feel nothing, but outrage towards the man I could kill him?! Emotions I admit wholly unbecoming of me as a Christian.

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2017/nov/26/judge-to-look-at-files-in-2-boys-1987-d/

New article on the case

I really admire Linda Ives but my heart also breaks for her. Having to deal with all these corrupt people who are able to protect themselves through intimidation, murder, and God know what else.

She's probably learned much more information than she ever expected to get circa 1987. And very little has happened to the guiltiest parties. I don't know how she can keep her sanity.

Clinton conspiracy theories are in their own category of bonkers. It's possible to believe, as I do, that as governor he likely covered up for menials while regarding CLINTON BODY COUNTS WHOA NELLY as sewage.

I know, right?

I simply cannot fathom how many people believe that Bill (a two-term former President and five-term governor) and Hillary (Presidential popular vote winner, Secretary of State, 2-term Senator and 2-term First Lady of the U.S.) have gone around, casually offing every person that knew them that died even a remotely unclear death, and ordering the assorted cover-ups that would have went along with it, a list that goes on to include essentially thousands of people. Far-fetched doesn't begin to describe it.

Actually, I thought Bill's reasons for not firing Fahmy Malak made sense: He felt he didn't have the appropriate medical knowledge to decide whether some of Fahmy's rulings were negligent or not. Bill was a law professor and a politician, not a doctor.

Back on topic, I read the book about this case and felt like it was like the Scots Law verdict of 'Not Proven'. It got to be such a big and unwieldy story that the actual case seemed obscured. And after learning a few things after the medical reports were corrected, I don't think there has been any real movement on this case in 25+ years.

Maybe it could use a set of fresh eyes. Too many were sold on the drug angle.

Back on topic, I read the book about this case and felt like it was like the Scots Law verdict of 'Not Proven'. It got to be such a big and unwieldy story that the actual case seemed obscured. And after learning a few things after the medical reports were corrected, I don't think there has been any real movement on this case in 25+ years.

Maybe it could use a set of fresh eyes. Too many were sold on the drug angle.

I think the biggest issue on this particular front is that from the very beginning the investigation was sullied by corrupt players in the local law enforcement community, not the least of which was Dan Harmon. I think this man alone may be the majority of the reason the case remains unsolved, as evidence is clear he worked to stifle, subvert, and suppress evidence and witnesses from the get-go, whether indirectly through agencies such as the Bryant Police Department, or directly through his office. He ran a brush over the footprints, so to speak, so there remain so many aspects of this case that may never be sufficiently substantiated.

By all accounts, the guy was a low-life piece of ****.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-8th-circuit/1161365.html

Add to that the individuals (especially women) of sordid reputation who came forward to testify to what they knew about his involvement in this case and others, and you can automatically create reasonable doubt. That's precisely what happened with Sharline Wilson--probably one of the most damaging witnesses to Harmon in this case--and I have to say I'm not sure I believe the entirety of her testimony myself. Just as you said, it makes for an extremely muddled case, especially after 30 years.

How the heck did I always miss the little tidbit about the other similar case in Oklahoma? I went back and re-read the posts in this thread and read the articles about the Oklahoma case, and this portion of one of them stood out:

A month after the bodies of Hainline and Decker were discovered, a clandestine methamphetamine laboratory was discovered 1 1/2 miles north of the tracks.

Don't think that's much of a coincidence. Although I doubt that the Ives/Henry case has anything to do with Hainline/Decker, outside of drugs being the main motive behind their deaths and the train being used to try and erase any evidence.

Over this past week there's been an update to this 30 year old murder mystery.

Carnage on ice (whose excellent documentary video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow0yPO8g9YA on the case is compulsive viewing) uploaded an update with parts of Billy Jack Haynes's testimony claiming he witnessed the murders of Kevin Ives and Don Henry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR_QZ694R18

And here's the news bulletin from KATV 7's February 15, 2018 broadcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntXFDkvGwes

A former pro wrestler claims to have witnessed their murders.
What do you think? Tell Tale Heart? Or a pattern of histrionics?https://www.fox16.com/news/local-news/man-claims-to-have-witnessed-murders-of-boys-on-the-tracks/971948383

A former pro wrestler claims to have witnessed their murders.
What do you think? Tell Tale Heart? Or a pattern of histrionics?https://www.fox16.com/news/local-news/man-claims-to-have-witnessed-murders-of-boys-on-the-tracks/971948383

It would be really odd for Haynes to simply make all this up. The family seems to be behind him also.

This has been very quiet the last nine months or so, has William Jerk Haynes The Third crawled back under his rock?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Zjy8rita4

New interview was just uploaded with BJHaynes describing his role in the murders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Zjy8rita4

New interview was just uploaded with BJHaynes describing his role in the murders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY2SRU9TO20

"Boys on the Tracks" Private Investigator on Billy Jack Haynes Involvement in his Double Homicide Investigation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY2SRU9TO20

"Boys on the Tracks" Private Investigator on Billy Jack Haynes Involvement in his Double Homicide Investigation

I believe in one of his shoot interviews, Billy Jack claims to have testified in court (I don't recall the case or the reason he said he was called to testify) but had to do so under a mask. The mask he claimed to wear was one of his old wrestling gimmick masks (it may have been the Black Blood mask).

I found this to be both absurd and humorous. I can just picture Billy jack in court (he has a rather distinct voice) under a wrestling mask testifying. I bet old Billy Jack fooled everyone. Maybe Hercules Hernandez caught him a little too hard with that chain at Wrestlemania 3;):lol:

In the interest of full disclosure, I was a Billy Jack Haynes fan in 1987. I wasn't a fan of his as much as I was Hogan, Steamboat, Flair, Savage, etc. but I was a BJH fan.

I am seriously considering going deep down into the rabbit hole about this case, but I can't help but notice that the majority of the media surrounding it is conspiratorial nonsense trying to link this case to Bill Clinton and/or Arkansas politics. I don't believe that it was that high up of a conspiracy. If it was, the local sheriff wouldn't have been requesting help from the FBI back in 1988.

Okay, so after I did a somewhat deep dive into this case for the past week, I can honestly say that I do not believe that the boys were murdered by a drug dealer for ripping them off, nor do I think the local prosecutor (who himself was involved in drug dealing) was involved. I think that the waters have been muddied for years solely for political reasons. I'll try my best to explain the tangled web, which was based off of the FBI files released after they looked into the murders back in the 90's.

The Sheriff at the time of the boy's deaths was a Democrat. Dan Harmon (the prosecutor) and his partner Richard Garrett (the guy interviewed in the segment) were both Democrats. For one, the Sheriff at the time, James Steed, requested the FBI's assistance with examining evidence from the crime scene. There is correspondence with Steed and the FBI back in 1987. In 1990, Steed came up for re-election, and the Republican challenger ran on the fact that he did not solve the murders nor do anything to crack down on the drug dealing going on in Saline County. Steed lost in a landslide. It's interesting that this seems to be the point when Dan Harmon and Richard Garrett's name began to be lumped into the murder conspiracy. IMO, it was political, and it only heated up more when Bill Clinton was elected President in 1992.

Many pages in the FBI files are heavily redacted, but there are some gems found in there. For one, the cocaine dealer, James Calloway, was named by several people as either being there at the tracks that night, or the one who orchestrated everything. The rumor was that Don and Kevin stole cocaine from Calloway's home that night and were planning on selling it. They were pursued by Calloway and 2 of his associates and were killed after they went to far "trying to scare them". James Calloway was arrested in 1989 for providing the weapons used in an armed robbery where a man was killed and there was considerable evidence that he was involved in drug dealing. Calloway's daughter was a classmate of Don Henry and childhood friend. Calloway lived on the same street as Don and his father and stepmother. The only problem? Calloway was divorcing from his wife and had moved out of the house months before the murders. And, from what I can glean from some of the redacted notes, it appears that Calloway did have an alibi for the night of the murders.

The Dan Harmon/Richard Garrett angle is ridiculous, IMO. For one, Don's father, Curtis Henry, was steadfast in his belief that they did everything they could to solve the case. Kevin's parents were on board with them but seemed to flip in 1990. Remember, Dr. Malak ruled that the deaths were accidental in 1987. Harmon and Garrett were the ones pushing to re-open the investigation and also had the bodies exhumed and re-autopsied. Does that sound like something that someone would do if they were responsible for the murders? It literally makes no sense. Despite Harmon's later legal troubles, there really was no credible evidence which could tie him, or Garrett, to the murders. IMO, Kevin's mother Linda was frustrated (as any parent would be) of the case being unsolved for years, which is why she kind of latched on to these "Clinton body count" types and also why she switched in her support of Harmon to outright accusing him of being involved.

I had an epiphany of sorts after rewatching the segment earlier this week. In the beginning, Stack says that the boys were hanging out at a parking lot, which was the popular hangout for the local teens. They stayed there until midnight. A friend of Don's saw him sitting in his driveway later that night and chatted with him and he said that nothing seemed off or amiss. At around 12:30 a.m., Don said he had to go (presumably to pick up Kevin) and that was the last confirmed person to have seen Don alive. Don's father on UM says that Don came in closer to midnight to tell him where he was going, but in articles and other interviews he says it was closer to 12:45 a.m. Don was armed with his .22 rifle. If they indeed stumbled on some sort of drug deal going down, why not either use their rifle for defense, or simply run away back to Don's house for help? The tracks were 300 yards away from Don's house. The more I thought about it the more I kept thinking that someone known to them had to have murdered them. Even Don's father has a quote in one of the articles about how Don would never let anyone get the drop on him and that he knew the area like the back of his hand. But if Don and Kevin were with someone they knew that night, that would explain everything IMO. Charles Beck Jr. was good friends with Don and said that the two of them went night hunting "all the time" together. Which would make you wonder, why didn't anyone else ever spot these elusive drug deals or drug drops in the years prior or since? What's interesting about Beck is that he said he was supposed to be hanging out with Don and Kevin on the night of the murders, but went to watch some stockcar races instead. But a 14 year old girl who was a friend of Beck's cousin told investigators (a year before the second autopsy which confirmed that Kevin's skull was crushed via blunt force) that Beck's cousin had told her that "two black guys threatened her cousin if they said anything about knocking the boys in the head and tying them to the tracks." Beck denied being with the boys or ever making the comment about the two black guys. When asked if he would take a polygraph to confirm his testimony to the grand jury, he refused. You can read more here (https://idfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/sub-b-section-1.pdf).

IMO, the boys were murdered by someone they knew who accompanied them that night to go spot hunting. An argument ensued, and this person stabbed Don in the back before hitting Kevin in the head with Don's rifle. In a panic, he placed them on the track and left. I think people are focusing too much on the potential drug deal angles and not exploring other avenues.

I read here (scroll down until you get to 'The Possible Police Connection' heading) that the pair ran into some corrupt cops and they were the ones that, for whatever reason, beat them up and laid them out on the tracks. That (corrupt cops involved in drug dealing) seems like the most likely explanation to me, rather than anything conspiratorial.

(alot of the other stuff in this link is bunk IMO)

https://medium.com/the-true-crime-edition/the-murders-of-kevin-ives-and-don-henry-f040ed97baf0

I read here (scroll down until you get to 'The Possible Police Connection' heading) that the pair ran into some corrupt cops and they were the ones that, for whatever reason, beat them up and laid them out on the tracks. That (corrupt cops involved in drug dealing) seems like the most likely explanation to me, rather than anything conspiratorial.

(alot of the other stuff in this link is bunk IMO)

https://medium.com/the-true-crime-edition/the-murders-of-kevin-ives-and-don-henry-f040ed97baf0

That article says that the officers were named. The FBI gave polygraphs (although the names were redacted) to several people who's names have been thrown around as potential suspects, and all of them passed. Not that polygraphs are the be all end all, but it's worth mentioning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Zjy8rita4

New interview was just uploaded with BJHaynes describing his role in the murders.

Billy Jack Haynes is NOT a credible person, and sadly seems to be delusional.

For one thing, Haynes was under contract with WWF wrestling at the time, and was in the middle of a tour of various cities for the WWF. I believe he did a house show in Detroit a couple of days before the murder. It makes no sense that he would take a couple of days off to get involved in rural Arkansas, after touring major US cities for a full year.

Secondly, BJH is obviously not well mentally, and has make some of the most ridiculous claims ever. During the Chris Benoit murder-suicide was that Vince McMahon was the biological father of Benoit's son Daniel (which is false). BJH also claims Vince McMahon ordered one of his star wrestlers named Jimmy Snuka to kill his girlfriend, which makes absolutely no sense.

People who give credibility to BJH, should really google the man first. The man is not playing with a full deck of cards.

Billy Jack Haynes is NOT a credible person, and sadly seems to be delusional.

For one thing, Haynes was under contract with WWF wrestling at the time, and was in the middle of a tour of various cities for the WWF. I believe he did a house show in Detroit a couple of days before the murder. It makes no sense that he would take a couple of days off to get involved in rural Arkansas, after touring major US cities for a full year.

Secondly, BJH is obviously not well mentally, and has make some of the most ridiculous claims ever. During the Chris Benoit murder-suicide was that Vince McMahon was the biological father of Benoit's son Daniel (which is false). BJH also claims Vince McMahon ordered one of his star wrestlers named Jimmy Snuka to kill his girlfriend, which makes absolutely no sense.

People who give credibility to BJH, should really google the man first. The man is not playing with a full deck of cards.


I believe if you read the other posts about ole' Billy Jack, you will see that nobody takes him seriously. i even joked the most credible part of his story was that he may have been near Bryant, Arkansas the night of August 23, 1987 given the WWF's road schedule then. :) He was in Detroit August 21 then is not shown on the schedule until August 25 in San Francisco. I don't think anybody seriously believes he is tied to the murders (I suppose it is possible but extremely far fetched). Remember, Billy Jack also claims he was called to testify in court under a mask. According to some sources, the mask he used was one of his gimmick masks used in his territorial days. From what I understand he was always a little "off" and could be difficult to deal with. His videos in the past 8-10 years have been very strange to say the least.

I don't remember Billy Jack wearing a mask in Oregon, Florida, WCCW or JCP, which were the places he worked before WWF-he was a good looking babyface, so wearing a mask would have been totally illogical. The only time I recall him wearing a mask was in WCW in 1991 as Black Blood.

I don't remember Billy Jack wearing a mask in Oregon, Florida, WCCW or JCP, which were the places he worked before WWF-he was a good looking babyface, so wearing a mask would have been totally illogical. The only time I recall him wearing a mask was in WCW in 1991 as Black Blood.

It may have been the Black Blood mask and I was wrong about it being in his territory days.

It may have been the Black Blood mask and I was wrong about it being in his territory days.

I had misread it yesterday & thought he had given testimony that he wore a hood when doing the crime, either the UK cold weather getting to my brain or I am going:crazy:

First of all, I AM LOVING the deep dive I've done (for probably the 40th time in twelve years) on this case again since Robin released the two-part TTWC podcast on it. I even broke out The Boys on the Tracks off my bookshelf again and am almost finished with it.

First of all, Robin, awesome work on the show. This might be my favorite segment of all time for multiple reasons: it was the first one to have truly kept me awake all night. I identify with so many of the people involved, being from the south and hearing those familiar accents and just being able to feel stepping out of a mobile home to go tool around in the woods. I was once married to someone who worked for Norfolk Southern, so I know the train front. I guess it's eventually become more than just a story that's interested me. It's become almost mythical, with the story having grown as nebulous as it now is. I really appreciated how Robin really got back to the roots of the case rather than primarily pursuing the now-taken-for-granted 'Mena connection'.

During the past four years of the last presidential administration, the "fake news" phenomenon utterly exploded over social media and other corners of the internet, and that really got me thinking about this particular case--particularly when the Billy Jack Haynes story broke. I actually couldn't even really bring myself to participate in discussions about it at the time because I was so disappointed in the entire thing. I knew, without ever having listened to a thing he actually said but having a basic knowledge of pro wrestling and the sort of reputation Haynes has, that the dude was lying like a dog. Only about a week ago did I watch any of the interviews he gave, and the lies are so utterly bald-faced it's almost darkly comical. Haynes has never revealed a single piece of information about this case that isn't available to the public, and in relaying his "account" one can clearly sense Haynes working overtime to regurgitate every single fact he can remember reading or hearing about the case in an attempt to seem authentic. Indeed, this accomplishes quite the opposite. I suppose to me, this whole thing was a shameful act that only further convolutes and makes a mockery of the two questions so many of us have been asking for over three decades now: who killed Don Henry and Kevin Ives, and why? I didn't want to give it a single bit of oxygen.

Performative political acts that have occurred in recent years--whether committed by actual political officers and candidates, celebrities, or just regular joes on social media--really got me thinking about Dan Harmon. I do absolutely think that Dan Harmon has always known more than he has admitted about who may have been involved in the murders, as he was involved in trafficking in the area himself, but I have never been firm about whether he was directly involved in the event. My inclination is to say no. However, I haven't made up my mind as to whether he called the grand jury investigation for personal damage control (as another investigator could have made connections back to Harmon's involvement in the local drug trade), or as a stunt to further his political career. I personally sort of lean toward the former, as three years before he had led a grand jury investigation into some financial wrongdoing at Saline Memorial Hospital, and wild cocaine parties figured heavily into that case. As coke was apparently Harmon's drug of choice, it wouldn't have surprised me one bit to learn he may have helped supply these events, if even only in an indirect way. And everyone found guilty in that case got away with essentially a slap on the hand. Not even a single indictment resulted from the Ives/Henry grand jury, which would seem to me a perfectly devastating fact to emphasize if I were running against Harmon for office.

There's so much I want to say about this case, but I'll narrow it down to the handful of things that I think are incredibly important but have been utterly lost throughout the years and through the growth of the Mena narrative:

1. Don and Kevin did not spend the entire evening of August 22, 1987 together, parting ways at some point and then meeting up again later. We can't account for several hours' whereabouts or activities for either boy, and that's a huge missing piece of the puzzle.

2. EMT Shirley Raper's account of meeting three Black males on the tracks on a rough side road (which I think could be Linden Dr, based on a Google maps look at the rail crossing at Shobe and Brookwood in Bryant, the closest crossing to the location of the boys' bodies before they were impacted by the train), who claimed they were members of a volunteer fire department that flat-out did not exist.

3. Curtis Henry's personal friendships and associations with a few of the people who have been implicated by the Mena conspiracy advocates in this case, including Keith McKaskle and James Callaway. Over the years, I have gotten the sense that Don came from one side of the tracks (I promise this isn't some terrible pun), and Kevin came from the other. In fact, in Mara Leveritt's book, she describes Linda Ives being very reluctant to allow Kevin to spend the night with Don that evening because of some earlier incident in which Don and Curtis had gotten into an argument, Don left the house with Kevin, didn't come home the next morning (the two had gone to a third friend's house to stay the night), and Curtis had called Linda asking if Don was at their house. The implication seemed to be that Linda didn't feel as though Curtis provided adequate supervision, and on the morning of August 23, 1987 after Curtis had called asking if Linda had any information on the boys' whereabouts, Linda is described as thinking, That is the last time (Kevin) spends the night at that house.

I feel these suggestions around Curtis and his associations are sort of a ham-fisted attempt to make this 'but-for' argument: if the Henrys weren't so lax, perhaps "rough", and if the family didn't have connections to these "questionable" folks, then maybe Don and Kevin wouldn't have been murdered. I don't agree with it for one instant, but I do think it's between the lines of some of these theories.

Not even a single indictment resulted from the Ives/Henry grand jury, which would seem to me a perfectly devastating fact to emphasize if I were running against Harmon for office.

First of all, great post.

Second, this is the biggest reason as to why I don't think Harmon was involved. Not only would it be completely idiotic to re-open an investigation that was already ruled a suicide if you were in fact involved in the murders, but it also did absolutely nothing for his political career. I think he seized on this case as a way to advance his political career, and failed. His being implicated, IMO, is also political.

1. Don and Kevin did not spend the entire evening of August 22, 1987 together, parting ways at some point and then meeting up again later. We can't account for several hours' whereabouts or activities for either boy, and that's a huge missing piece of the puzzle.

From what I remember, the two were apart for approximately 30 minutes to an hour that night. It was after they had left the parking lot but before Don went home to tell his father he was going night hunting.

2. EMT Shirley Raper's account of meeting three Black males on the tracks on a rough side road (which I think could be Linden Dr, based on a Google maps look at the rail crossing at Shobe and Brookwood in Bryant, the closest crossing to the location of the boys' bodies before they were impacted by the train), who claimed they were members of a volunteer fire department that flat-out did not exist.

In my semi-deep dive into this case a few weeks ago, I found this (https://www.newspapers.com/clip/21128130/baxter-bulletin/) newspaper article, which mentions Shirley Raper's account of seeing the men (emphasis mine):

In testimony Friday, Shirley Raper, a paramedic who responded to the scene in the early morning hours of Aug. 23, said she saw a pickup truck with three people inside in the general area of the tracks when she drove up. Garrett asked Ms. Raper why she never had mentioned the truck to county investigators and she said she never was interviewed by them. "No one asked me for anything 'til last week," she said. "I figured SO [the sheriff's office] was checking close...I had no reason to mention it." The men were identified Monday by Alexander Fire Chief Tommy Madison as volunteer firemen Gary Pulliman and Allen Smith, who were attempting to assist authorities.

Maybe it's in the book, but I can't find a single source in which Shirley Raper identifies the men in the pickup truck as black men. According to the article I linked, the men in the pickup truck were identified and where firefighters. Unless there was another pickup truck, I've always got the feeling that this was a giant red herring. I still contend that the boys were not alone when they went to the tracks, and that someone they knew murdered them and it had nothing to do with a massive coverup or conspiracy over drugs.

First off, thanks for your kind words about the podcast episodes, MegtheEgg86. I want to clarify a few points about the three men in the pick-up truck. Here’s an excerpt from the “Boys on the Tracks” book, which confirms that yes, they were black…

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I can only assume that the information in the newspaper article TheCars1986 shared was inaccurate or that it was published before all the full facts came out. In actuality, the town of Alexander did not even have a fire department, which is why they figured out that the story those three men shared with Shirley Raper was a lie. Tommy Lee Madison (erroneously identified as the Alexander Fire Chief in that previous article) was called upon to testify as a witness in front of the grand jury, but he wound up being indicted on eight counts of distributing cocaine in an unrelated investigation. According to this newspaper article, he entered a guilty plea in July 1988 and received a 30-year prison sentence...

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Of course, that doesn’t necessarily prove that Madison was involved in the murders of Don and Kevin, but he was definitely was involved in drug dealing and I’m sure he had his own ulterior motives for lying to Raper. Here are some PDFs of documentation from the original Arkansas State Police investigation which contain more information about Madison, as well as Gary Pulliam and Allen Smith, the other two guys who were with him in the pick-up truck. In Madison’s defence, these documents state that he took a polygraph and when he denied any involvement in the crime, the results showed he was being truthful.

https://idfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/State-Police-File-2-March-1988.pdf

https://idfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/State-Police-File-3-April-1988.pdf

These PDF files also contain more documentation about the story from Sharon Liggans, who claimed she was told by the cousin of Charles Beck, one of Kevin and Don’s friends, that he had been threatened by a group of black guys on the night of the murders. However, she did state that Beck was threatened by two guys in a white pickup truck, whereas Madison says that the truck he, Pulliam and Smith drove that night was blue. IIRC, Sharon Liggans first shared this story with police months before Shirley Raper shared her own encounter with the black guys in the pickup truck during her grand jury testimony, so if these events are not connected, then it’s certainly an odd coincidence.

BTW, I’ll also mention that even though Mara Leveritt shared the story about Charles Beck and Sharon Liggans in an extensive article she wrote about the case in the Arkansas Times in 1992, there’s no mention of them at all in the “Boys on the Tracks” book, which was published in 1999. So it makes me wonder if she might have eventually discovered that this whole angle was a dead end.

I can only assume that the information in the newspaper article TheCars1986 shared was inaccurate or that it was published before all the full facts came out. In actuality, the town of Alexander did not even have a fire department, which is why they figured out that the story those three men shared with Shirley Raper was a lie. Tommy Lee Madison (erroneously identified as the Alexander Fire Chief in that previous article) was called upon to testify as a witness in front of the grand jury, but he wound up being indicted on eight counts of distributing cocaine in an unrelated investigation. According to this newspaper article, he entered a guilty plea in July 1988 and received a 30-year prison sentence...

That's weird, because the article says that Raper first shared her story at the public hearing (which resulted in the re-opening of the case) on a Friday, and that Madison testified the next Monday about identifying the men in the truck. Other than lying about being a fire chief, it seems like these men legitimately arrived after the commotion, and were genuinely trying to help out.

3. Curtis Henry's personal friendships and associations with a few of the people who have been implicated by the Mena conspiracy advocates in this case, including Keith McKaskle and James Callaway. Over the years, I have gotten the sense that Don came from one side of the tracks (I promise this isn't some terrible pun), and Kevin came from the other. In fact, in Mara Leveritt's book, she describes Linda Ives being very reluctant to allow Kevin to spend the night with Don that evening because of some earlier incident in which Don and Curtis had gotten into an argument, Don left the house with Kevin, didn't come home the next morning (the two had gone to a third friend's house to stay the night), and Curtis had called Linda asking if Don was at their house. The implication seemed to be that Linda didn't feel as though Curtis provided adequate supervision, and on the morning of August 23, 1987 after Curtis had called asking if Linda had any information on the boys' whereabouts, Linda is described as thinking, That is the last time (Kevin) spends the night at that house.

I feel these suggestions around Curtis and his associations are sort of a ham-fisted attempt to make this 'but-for' argument: if the Henrys weren't so lax, perhaps "rough", and if the family didn't have connections to these "questionable" folks, then maybe Don and Kevin wouldn't have been murdered. I don't agree with it for one instant, but I do think it's between the lines of some of these theories.

For all the political/conspiracy innuendo that's been bandied about, if you wanted to apply Occam's Razor to this case, right here would be the logical place to start. It fits in well with TheCars1986's suggestion that the killer(s) were known to the boys and given the how the bodies were laid out, it makes sense (I wouldn't think a random killer or some hitman involved with drugs would take care to neatly arrange the bodies on the tracks and then bother to cover them with a tarp)

I also find it odd that if the police (and Dan Harmon) were involved in drug dealing and the boys stumbled onto it and were murdered for it, they had their perfect scapegoats to pin the murders on...the 3 black men seen at the scene the next morning, one of which was also involved in (and convicted of) drug dealing.

I also find it odd that if the police (and Dan Harmon) were involved in drug dealing and the boys stumbled onto it and were murdered for it, they had their perfect scapegoats to pin the murders on...the 3 black men seen at the scene the next morning, one of which was also involved in (and convicted of) drug dealing.

The fact that they didn't (or expended minimal effort in doing so) kind of underscores the notion they were political opportunists who weren't so much interested in investigating this properly as they were trying to score points to further their careers (or otherwise keep the heat off their seedy activities)

The fact that they didn't (or expended minimal effort in doing so) kind of underscores the notion they were political opportunists who weren't so much interested in investigating this properly as they were trying to score points to further their careers (or otherwise keep the heat off their seedy activities)

This was the vibe I got from reading some of the files on Linda Ives' website. Seems like when it came time for an election, the opposing party would run on a platform that included "they didn't solve these murders, I will".

...Charles Beck Jr. was good friends with Don and said that the two of them went night hunting "all the time" together. Which would make you wonder, why didn't anyone else ever spot these elusive drug deals or drug drops in the years prior or since? What's interesting about Beck is that he said he was supposed to be hanging out with Don and Kevin on the night of the murders, but went to watch some stockcar races instead. But a 14 year old girl who was a friend of Beck's cousin told investigators (a year before the second autopsy which confirmed that Kevin's skull was crushed via blunt force) that Beck's cousin had told her that "two black guys threatened her cousin if they said anything about knocking the boys in the head and tying them to the tracks." Beck denied being with the boys or ever making the comment about the two black guys. When asked if he would take a polygraph to confirm his testimony to the grand jury, he refused...IMO, the boys were murdered by someone they knew who accompanied them that night to go spot hunting. An argument ensued, and this person stabbed Don in the back before hitting Kevin in the head with Don's rifle. In a panic, he placed them on the track and left...

That’s an interesting possibilty, i.e., Charles Beck Jr, or someone else, Henry and Ives knew killed them🤔 From RobinW’s post (#143) Sharon Liggans is the “14 year old girl who was a friend of Beck’s cousin.”

The information in Lori Johnston’s article, “The Murders of Kevin Ives and Don Henry,” Huskerz87 links to is vaguely reminiscent of that reproduced elsewhere I’ve come across, possibly from the video, Murder on the Tracks: The Story of Kevin Ives and Don Henry, but I’ve read quite a lot about this case since it aired on Unsolved Mysteries over three decades now so the sources of all the bits of information are a blur now🤔🤷

Reviewing Johnston’s article I found interesting that:
1. Keith McKaskle, who allegedly informed on Dan Harmon, believed 2 unidentified police officers, who were suspects in the case, were following him.

2. Keith Coney was supposedly with Henry and Ives the night they died. He claimed the boys were approached by 2 police officers, but he escaped on his motorbike. He believed these 2 police officers killed them.

3. “Jerry” and “Ron” backed up Keith Coney’s testimony about 2 police officers assaulting the boys and throwing them into the back of their car.

4. The section on Fahmy Malak’s sheer ineptitude provides plausible reasons for the Clinton “conspiracy theories” that were possibly due to several people covering up for their own failures more than anything else.

5. An unnamed teenager who told Linda Ives in 1993 he was on the railroad tracks with some friends and hid in some bushes where he saw Henry and Ives killed by Dan Harmon. Although his testimony was discounted by police he allegedly passed two polygraphs and was subsequently enrolled in witness protection.

6. In 1993 Sharlene Wilson claimed Dan Harmon, Keith McCaskle and Larry Rochelle were responsible for the deaths of Henry and Ives. Her statement alleged one of the boys was stabbed with a knife and they were covered with a green tarp from her car.

7. The other similar deaths noted, i.e., Billy Don Hainline, 21, and Dennis Decker, 26, in Poteauin, Oklahoma; Sean Reineke, 15, and David Taylor, 13, in Joplin, Missouri; Norman Ladner, 17, in Picayune, Mississippi; all support possible connections to drug cartels.

So I came across a Reddit post a month back that linked to an article naming a possible suspect, or at the very least another person of interest, in the case:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnsolvedMysteries/comments/l61clg/after_watching_the_episode_of_the_2_boys_don/

A clipping of the article if not viewable via the Reddit link can be seen here:
https://ibb.co/V3bk6dy

From that information about Paul William Criswell I came across this PDF that seemed to elaborate more about his drug dealings and possible knowledge and/or involvement in the deaths of Henry and Ives:
https://idfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Govar-Memo-2.1.pdf

This is a case I've often thought about throughout the years. I might get slaughtered for this, but I'm gonna go against general opinion and say this could very well have been an accident instead of a homicide that was covered up. Here's why:

The thing that seems to have initiated the murder conspiracy theory was the claim by the train crew that the boys were partly covered by a tarp. I really have trouble believing this. No tarp was found. If there had been a tarp, then it must've been shredded to pieces. It would've been impossible for cops to have recovered all those pieces in time before anyone could've seen them. This means that this was a cover-up with tons of people involved, even those that handled items from the crime scene afterwards. This seems highly unlikely to me. I don't think the crew purposely lied. It seems to me that they wanted to believe there was a tarp out of guilt that they didn't see them or stop the train in time.

Another thing is Malak's ruling that the boys smoked 20 joints that night. Just like everybody else I find that rather ridiculous. I don't know if it's sheer incompetence (the guy doesn't have the best reputation) or perhaps LE encouraged him to come up with a ruling that supported their accident theory because they just wanted speculation about murder to end. If he was part of a cover-up, wouldn't he have come up with a less suspicious amount, like 5 maybe? Since there was no evidence of a tarp, they could've easily sold the theory that the boys fell asleep on the tracks and the crew just didn't see them in time because of the darkness. That would've raised far less questions.

The only thing that seems to support the homicide theory is the second autopsy requested by the parents. But haven't we seen this before on the show? Parents have trouble accepting the initial ruling and find their own experts who just happen to confirm their suspicions? Now if a bullet had been found, no doubt it was murder. But a "stab wound" and crushed skull are the kind of injuries that very well could've been caused by the train running over them. Their bodies must've been so mangled, I'm not sure one can definitely say they were caused by one thing, but not another.

I just don't see a lot of evidence for homicide, let alone one that was covered up by LE. The proposed motive doesn't sit well with me either. A person supposedly happening upon a drug deal and getting murdered is a theory that gets thrown around a lot, but how often has this happened in real life? You'd also think that criminals who have no problem killing two innocent teenagers, would know of a better and less suspicious way to dispose of the bodies.

Anyway, just my two cents. Oh yeah, and the Clintons may be corrupt, but the suggestion that they were involved is just absurd.

This is a case I've often thought about throughout the years. I might get slaughtered for this, but I'm gonna go against general opinion and say this could very well have been an accident instead of a homicide that was covered up. Here's why:

The thing that seems to have initiated the murder conspiracy theory was the claim by the train crew that the boys were partly covered by a tarp. I really have trouble believing this. No tarp was found. If there had been a tarp, then it must've been shredded to pieces. It would've been impossible for cops to have recovered all those pieces in time before anyone could've seen them.

I seem to remember at least one person who worked the scene that night saying that they saw a tarp. Also, the tarp could have blown off as the train approached. I never got the impression that the boys were wrapped up in a tarp, just that it was lying on their bodies.

Another thing is Malak's ruling that the boys smoked 20 joints that night. Just like everybody else I find that rather ridiculous. I don't know if it's sheer incompetence (the guy doesn't have the best reputation) or perhaps LE encouraged him to come up with a ruling that supported their accident theory because they just wanted speculation about murder to end. If he was part of a cover-up, wouldn't he have come up with a less suspicious amount, like 5 maybe? Since there was no evidence of a tarp, they could've easily sold the theory that the boys fell asleep on the tracks and the crew just didn't see them in time because of the darkness. That would've raised far less questions.

20 was the amount of marijuana cigs they would have had to smoke in a short amount of time to actually PASS OUT and not wake up from the noise and shaking of the train.

I seem to remember at least one person who worked the scene that night saying that they saw a tarp. Also, the tarp could have blown off as the train approached. I never got the impression that the boys were wrapped up in a tarp, just that it was lying on their bodies.

A big coincidence it blew off just as the train approached. It was also a train crew member who supposedly saw the tarp after the incident. If it was nearby, then why didn't anybody else see it? Or are you suggesting that it was immediately removed by someone who was part of the conpiracy?

It's also not very smart for the killer to put a tarp on the bodies. What if it hadn't blown off and was actually shredded to pieces?

I do not believe there was a tarp, but even if you do, why does it mean someone else put it there? Maybe the boys found the tarp and decided to use it as a blanket because they were cold

I20 was the amount of marijuana cigs they would have had to smoke in a short amount of time to actually PASS OUT and not wake up from the noise and shaking of the train.

I don't think they would need to be passed out not to wake up in time. A deep sleep would be enough, especially if the crew didn't notice them until it was too late. If you google, you'll find multiple cases of people who fell asleep on the tracks and were run over. I don't think they all had smoked 20 joints.

https://www.google.com/search?q=people+falling+asleep+on+railroad+tracks&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Don Henry's shirt showed evidence that he was stabbed with a knife, and Kevin Ives had a blunt injury to his head which matched a rifle butt. Neither of which would have been replicated by a train running them over.

Don Henry's shirt showed evidence that he was stabbed with a knife, and Kevin Ives had a blunt injury to his head which matched a rifle butt. Neither of which would have been replicated by a train running them over.

How so? It must've been a pretty bloody mess. How would cuts on a shirt indicate he must've been stabbed with a knife?

As I understand it, the examiner who did the second autopsy complained Malak had mutilated Ives' skull, so I don't know if one can state it could NOT have been caused by the train running them over (I'm not even sure he did, as the Wikipedia article says Ives' skull MAY have been crushed byhis own rifle).

How so? It must've been a pretty bloody mess. How would cuts on a shirt indicate he must've been stabbed with a knife?

I presume that the shirt had a cut which was ruled out as being caused by the train, and as coming from a knife. That's a pretty definitive detail that the second autopsy said.

I can't find Burton's autopsy report or his testimony, so I don't know if he talked about (im)possibilities, probabilities or likelihoods.

Like I said, how can one determine that a cut on a shirt definitely came from a knife and not the train? A train has all kinds of sharp edges.

Malak did not find these cuts to be remarkable. Yes, his autopsy was flawed, but I can't ignore Burton's bias either as a private examiner hired by the family.

I have learned that the mother of Kevin Ives, Linda, (who had posted before in this thread) died June 3, 2021 at age 71

Linda Kay Ives, age 71, of Benton, passed away Thursday, June 3, 2021. She was born November 22, 1949 in Little Rock, Arkansas. Linda was a member of Hurricane Lake Baptist Church in Bryant and served as the State Coordinator for POMC for 10 years. She was family oriented and had a great personality. Linda was very intelligent and a good decorator.
She was preceded in death by her parents, Rodney and Eudora Haydon and her son, Kevin Ives.
Linda is survived by her husband of 54 years, Larry Ives; daughter, Alicia Ives; sister, Carol Edmondson; and numerous nieces, nephews, and cousins.
Visitation will be 11:00 to 12:00 a.m. Monday, June 7 at Hurricane Lake Baptist Church with funeral services beginning at 12:00. Burial will follow at Pinecrest Memorial Park. Bro. Benny Grant will be officiating.
Memorial may be made to the Little Rock Compassion Center at 3618 W. Roosevelt Road in Little Rock, Arkansas 72204.
On-line guest book @ www.ashbyfuneralhome.com.

https://katv.com/news/local/linda-ives-mother-who-sought-answers-in-boys-on-the-tracks-case-dies-at-71

In addition, Kevin's sister, Alicia, died on August 24 at age 53.
Alicia Renee Ives, age 53, of Benton, passed away Tuesday, August 24, 2021. She was born October 29, 1967, in Little Rock, Arkansas, the daughter of Larry and Linda Ives.
Alicia was a graduate of Bryant High School and attended the University of Arkansas. She enjoyed working as an accountant and retired from Siemens AG.
Alicia was a devoted caretaker to her elderly parents. She loved to read and accumulated enough books to start her own library. Alicia was best known for having the biggest, kindest heart & smile that could light up a room. She was loved by so many and in return she loved them.
She is preceded in death by her mother, Linda Kay Ives, and her brother, Kevin Ives.
Alicia is survived by her father, Larry Ives, and numerous aunts, uncles, cousins & friends. She will be greatly missed by all who knew her.
Visitation will be from 11:00 to 12:00 Monday, August 30 at Hurricane Lake Baptist Church with services beginning at 12:00. Burial will follow at Pinecrest Memorial Park. Bro. Benny Grant will be officiating.
Memorials may be made to the Humane Society of Saline County @ 7600 Bauxite Hwy, Bauxite, AR 72011 or www.hssaline.org

Thanks for that information MidwesternPhoenix such heartbreaking news!😔

I can only hope and pray they're both resting in the peace of Christ now and having been reunited with their son and brother have the answers we all yet still yearn for!🙏

Mobile Instinct traveled to the murder location in Alexander, Arkansas. He also visits the graves of Don Henry and Kevin Ives.

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I didn't see any active links posted for the 1996 documentary Obstruction of Justice: The Mena Connection.

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This is an unaired documentary from 1999.

https://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Secret-History-Heartbeat-America/dp/B075DV48YW

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Phenomenon: The Lost Archives - Hosted by Dean Stockwell, this series examines our greatest mysteries. Governments, corporations and religious groups have secretly wielded vast power by suppressing critical data or spreading misinformation to further their own aims. But why hide the truth about great discoveries, disasters or interstellar visits? Who does this serve?

11/06/98 - American Midnight

This shocking, power packed indictment brings into sharp focus the Iran/Contra conspiracy through the least likely of events: the slaying of two innocent high school students. Out for a night of fun near the train tracks, these unassuming local boys witness an airdrop of drugs by the infamous international drug smuggler and CIA operative, Barry Sieles. Though some are jailed and others pay with their lives, the remaining victims: the parents of the slain boys, the Constitution of the United States and the people of the Western World, have yet to divine justice.

https://www.amazon.com/Irretrievably-Lost-Search-Savannah-Warhead/dp/B01M7M8WRH

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Just shows that ridiculous conspiracy theories were around before 9/11.

Just shows that ridiculous conspiracy theories were around before 9/11.

Obstruction of Justice is a hilarious comedy though.

20 was the amount of marijuana cigs they would have had to smoke in a short amount of time to actually PASS OUT and not wake up from the noise and shaking of the train.

I've never heard of anyone "passing out" from smoking marijuana. Marijuana does not have that effect on most people. Most important, unless they were going to commit suicide, they would never lay down on railroad tracks.

This case has all the hallmarks of two boys accidentally stumbling into a drug drop. There are similar cases around the same time in different states.

How so? It must've been a pretty bloody mess. How would cuts on a shirt indicate he must've been stabbed with a knife?


For starters, if the knife wound occurred before the boy died, he would have bled out, meaning that his heart was still pumping blood, and there would have been much blood on the shirt surrounding the stab wound. This is probably how the independent coroner determined the deaths to be not accidental.

The boys were dead by the time they were placed on the railroad tracks, meaning that no matter how mangled the bodies were, they would not have bled at all, since the heart ceases to pump blood once death occurs.

I've never heard of anyone "passing out" from smoking marijuana. Marijuana does not have that effect on most people. Most important, unless they were going to commit suicide, they would never lay down on railroad tracks.

This case has all the hallmarks of two boys accidentally stumbling into a drug drop. There are similar cases around the same time in different states.

This is true. The whole angle on the marijuana has always bothered me. I can't say what smoking 20 joints would do to me, but I wouldn't even try it; for one thing it's a crazy waste of perfectly good weed. Clearly the boys smoked it that night but I think the 20 number was to discredit them. If what was stated later was the truth, that is was between 1 and three joints, the kids might have been a little stoned and goofy but I don't see them just laying down on train tracks for fun. Surely they still had some faculties intact.

I spent about 20 years in that part of the country, the Little Rock area, and I heard many stories over that time about coverups and corruption.

About the tarp.

I know a guy who works for a railroad and is riding the front of a train from place to place. He tells me that their train hits debris all the the time which has been piled up on the tracks (lots of shopping carts get smashed in some neighborhoods). They keep going unless they hit someone.

Back to the tarp. My buddy has run over a tarp. It usually is covering boards, logs and bricks. This debris pile caused the train to have it's air brake line disconnect. After stopping he walked back and reconnected the rubber hoses that had become disconnected. He saw no sign of a tarp walking back, but walking back to the front of the train, he saw the tarp tangled up on one axles on a train car. He makes a note and walks back to the front. At the end of the trip, he contacts the mechanical dept to make an inspection of car with tarp wrapped around the axle. And they found nothing. The tarp eventually fell off.

I think the tarp got tangled up on the underside of the train when the train crew and others were looking along the sides of the track. Eventually, the tarp (likely) tangled falls off miles down the line and it looks like usually discarded debris found along the tracks.

This is true. The whole angle on the marijuana has always bothered me. I can't say what smoking 20 joints would do to me, but I wouldn't even try it; for one thing it's a crazy waste of perfectly good weed. Clearly the boys smoked it that night but I think the 20 number was to discredit them. If what was stated later was the truth, that is was between 1 and three joints, the kids might have been a little stoned and goofy but I don't see them just laying down on train tracks for fun. Surely they still had some faculties intact.

I spent about 20 years in that part of the country, the Little Rock area, and I heard many stories over that time about coverups and corruption.

You'd overdose. And.. While everyone says "You can't OD on weed".. OD doesn't mean you die. It just means, you've over dosed.

You'd probably wind up with the week shakes.

https://www.safehavenbh.com/resources/weed-shakes-are-weed-shakes-dangerous

Everyone's different, obviously.. But.. I can say from experience that 100mg of edibles starts firing off muscles whether you want them to fire or not.

Goes without saying.. I don't recommend it. It's one hell of an involuntary workout, tho.

You'd overdose. And.. While everyone says "You can't OD on weed".. OD doesn't mean you die. It just means, you've over dosed.

You'd probably wind up with the week shakes.

LOL at "a week shakes." I've known friends and acquaintances who were habitual pot smokers (daily). None of the ever had "a week of shakes." You are confusing marijuana with alcohol (hardcore drinkers often experience the shakes, after withdrawl).

Additionally, people who wind up in hospitals after consuming too much marijuana nearly always mix it with some other drug (especially alcohol), so marijuana alone rarely ever renders a trip to the ER.

Treatment centres as well as anti-drug websites always exaggerate the effects of marijuana, They have a vested interest in doing so, as it would not be in their best interest to level with people.

Try an official medical site:

"Symptom onset typically occurs 24–48 hours after cessation and most symptoms generally peak at days 2–6, with some symptoms lasting up to 3 weeks or more in heavy cannabis users. The most common features of cannabis withdrawal are anxiety, irritability, anger or aggression, disturbed sleep/dreaming, depressed mood and loss of appetite."

Unlike most drugs, marijuana is mainly psychologically addicting, not physically addicting.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9110555/#:~:text=The%20most%20common%20features%20of,tension%2C%20sweating%20and%20stomach%20pain.


Having said that, I fail to see the relevance of discussing "marijuana intoxication" in the boys deaths. It's already been proven that Ives and Henry were either dead or unconsciousness from the stab wounds and blunt force trauma they endured shortly before their bodies were placed on the railroad tracks.

Marijuana was not a factor in the boys deaths.

LOL at "a week shakes." I've known friends and acquaintances who were habitual pot smokers (daily). None of the ever had "a week of shakes." You are confusing marijuana with alcohol (hardcore drinkers often experience the shakes, after withdrawl).

Additionally, people who wind up in hospitals after consuming too much marijuana nearly always mix it with some other drug (especially alcohol), so marijuana alone rarely ever renders a trip to the ER.

Treatment centres as well as anti-drug websites always exaggerate the effects of drugs, They have a vested interest in doing so, as it would not be in their best interest to level with people.

Try an official medical site:

"Symptom onset typically occurs 24–48 hours after cessation and most symptoms generally peak at days 2–6, with some symptoms lasting up to 3 weeks or more in heavy cannabis users. The most common features of cannabis withdrawal are anxiety, irritability, anger or aggression, disturbed sleep/dreaming, depressed mood and loss of appetite."

Unlike most drugs, marijuana is mainly psychologically addicting, not physically addicting.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9110555/#:~:text=The%20most%20common%20features%20of,tension%2C%20sweating%20and%20stomach%20pain.


Having said that, I fail to see the relevance of discussing "marijuana intoxication" in the boys deaths. It's already been proven that Ives and Henry were either dead or unconsciousness from the stab wounds and blunt force trauma they endured shortly before their bodies were placed on the railroad tracks.

Marijuana was not a factor in the boys deaths.

Well, that was SUPPOSED to say "Weed Shakes" which would be obvious for anyone who actually read the link or.. performed basic reasoning.

Had you, you know, actually read the post and the link.. And then looked up something you apparently have no idea about, rather than trying to explain it with no knowledge.. You would have seen results like this

https://leafwell.com/blog/weed-shakes/

https://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/blog/what-are-weed-shakes

https://utahmarijuana.org/2022/03/08/the-cannabis-shakes-legit-but-not-dangerous/

https://www.worldofweed.com/weed-shakes-get-the-shakes-after-smoking-weed/

Now.. If you would like to say sites like leafwell.com or marijuana-seeds.nl or worldofweed.com or utahmarijuana.org are "anti-drug".. I'd love to hear your explanation on that.


And, as for relevance. I was relating personal experience in answer to the question of what would happen from smoking 20 cigarettes. I gave an example of what was likely to happen. But.. Apparently you know more what I did than I do, since what happened to me can't happen,according to you.

Well, that was SUPPOSED to say "Weed Shakes" which would be obvious for anyone who actually read the link or.. performed basic reasoning.

Had you, you know, actually read the post and the link.. And then looked up something you apparently have no idea about, rather than trying to explain it with no knowledge.. You would have seen results like this

https://leafwell.com/blog/weed-shakes/

https://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/blog/what-are-weed-shakes

https://utahmarijuana.org/2022/03/08/the-cannabis-shakes-legit-but-not-dangerous/

https://www.worldofweed.com/weed-shakes-get-the-shakes-after-smoking-weed/

Now.. If you would like to say sites like leafwell.com or marijuana-seeds.nl or worldofweed.com or utahmarijuana.org are "anti-drug".. I'd love to hear your explanation on that.


And, as for relevance. I was relating personal experience in answer to the question of what would happen from smoking 20 cigarettes. I gave an example of what was likely to happen. But.. Apparently you know more what I did than I do, since what happened to me can't happen,according to you.

This is completely irrelevant to the topic of the boys death, since it was proven that smoking marijuana had literally nothing to do with their fate.

Dan Harmon died (https://www.mysaline.com/dan-harmon-dies/) on September 22, 2023.

This is completely irrelevant to the topic of the boys death, since it was proven that smoking marijuana had literally nothing to do with their fate.

True. And it leads me to wonder why it was even brought up on the show.

Dan Harmon died (https://www.mysaline.com/dan-harmon-dies/) on September 22, 2023.

Dang. I had no idea he was that much trouble.

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2010/feb/19/ex-prosecutor-arrested-drug-charges/

True. And it leads me to wonder why it was even brought up on the show.

This was the era of Nancy Reagan's JUST SAY NO. Politicians' obsession with drugs reached hysteria.

True. And it leads me to wonder why it was even brought up on the show.

Drug taking 35 years ago was not looked on as fondly/kindly as it is in current times.

For starters, if the knife wound occurred before the boy died, he would have bled out, meaning that his heart was still pumping blood, and there would have been much blood on the shirt surrounding the stab wound. This is probably how the independent coroner determined the deaths to be not accidental.

The boys were dead by the time they were placed on the railroad tracks, meaning that no matter how mangled the bodies were, they would not have bled at all, since the heart ceases to pump blood once death occurs.

I don't think the pathologist (hired by the family) actually claimed that the boys bled out and were dead before being placed on the tracks. He simply examined the shirt and concluded that a cut in his shirt likely came from a knife. I'm sorry, but their bodies and clothing must've been so damaged, I find it unlikely one could definitely say the cut was cause by a knife instead of the train. I don't find these findings convincing. It's only an interpretation, not proof of a stab wound by knife.

https://www.lewisfuneralhome.biz/obituaries/George-Curtis-Henry?obId=30756160

Curtis Henry died in February this year.

I'm not anywhere near as active here as I have been in the past so I apologize if this has been mentioned already, but with the passing of both Linda Ives and Curtis Henry there's been some information that's been made public that was personally kind of shocking to me.

Jean Duffey apparently is collaborating with a YouTuber whose channel is named Carnage On Ice. A search for Murder On the Track Part 5 - The Henry Family will bring you to the video I watched tonight.

Bottom line up front: Gayla Henry, Don's older sister who is also now deceased, was not only involved in a romantic relationship with someone accused of being at the tracks that night but was supposedly there with him herself. It is theorized that in the darkness, she didn't realize that it was her own brother that was killed or that she left just before or immediately after the boys were accosted. She was known to both use and deal drugs at the time. Her activities and knowledge are alleged to be the impetus behind Curtis Henry's public evasiveness and falling out with the Ives beginning around early 1989 to the day he passed.

It's a long video, but it clears up a lot of questions I've had for decades now about Gayla in particular, because her name does come up with some frequency in many of the heavily redacted documents on the ID Files website, and I know Curtis literally put her in hiding shortly after the murders and refused to tell anyone where she was for a time. It admittedly does make a lot of sense to me. Honestly though, I really wish it didn't.

I think the crazy 20 marijuana cigarette theory was put forth only before it was determined that the boys had been stabbed to death.

I rewatched the orignial broadcast where this theory was mentioned and then the episode was updated after the fact to mention that they were stabbed to death. So regardless of if they smoked 1 cigarette or 85, you are completely right that someone killed those poor young men. Marijuana did not do this.

Bottom line up front: Gayla Henry, Don's older sister who is also now deceased, was not only involved in a romantic relationship with someone accused of being at the tracks that night but was supposedly there with him herself. It is theorized that in the darkness, she didn't realize that it was her own brother that was killed or that she left just before or immediately after the boys were accosted. She was known to both use and deal drugs at the time. Her activities and knowledge are alleged to be the impetus behind Curtis Henry's public evasiveness and falling out with the Ives beginning around early 1989 to the day he passed.

It's a long video, but it clears up a lot of questions I've had for decades now about Gayla in particular, because her name does come up with some frequency in many of the heavily redacted documents on the ID Files website, and I know Curtis literally put her in hiding shortly after the murders and refused to tell anyone where she was for a time. It admittedly does make a lot of sense to me. Honestly though, I really wish it didn't.

I'm just now seeing this and tried watching the video you referenced but it is a bit confusing as I'm not as well versed on this case as you are: is the theory now that Don's sister was there with a group of people buying drugs and the boys witnessed this so they were murdered for it?

I'm just now seeing this and tried watching the video you referenced but it is a bit confusing as I'm not as well versed on this case as you are: is the theory now that Don's sister was there with a group of people buying drugs and the boys witnessed this so they were murdered for it?


I watched the whole thing and took some notes (to anyone else who goes and watches that video, please feel free to correct me if I mess up any of the details!!) The theory goes like this:

-According to eyewitness testimony from Tommy Niehaus, 5 people were at the tracks that night, 3 of whom the video mentioned were there conclusively.....Dan Harmon, Keith McCaskle and James "Freddy" Poe (Gayla's boyfriend at the time). Tommy mentions the presence of a girl, who is assumed to be Gayla (making it 4 people now). The 5th person is assumed to be Bryant PD officer Danny Allen (based on circumstantial evidence the video lays out)


-Don & Kevin came walking along and as they got closer, a shot rang out (again, the video wasn't specific about who fired the shot or who/what the target was). This causes everyone to scramble - Gayla & her boyfriend Freddy bolt for home Evidently in the chaos though, Don & Kevin are spotted and Harmon & Allen (or whoever person #5 actually was) puts out a call to pick up the two guys on the tracks.

-It's wasn't made clear if any of the 5 knew it was Don & Kevin who walked up on them, but at least one of them had to, because two other Bryant cops (Kirk Lane & Jay Campbell) caught up with them at a nearby grocery story, rough them up pretty good, put them in their car and take off.


From here, I can't recall the video going into specifics, but it's safe to say that the two cops drove back to the tracks with them where at least Dan Harmon, Freddy Poe and Danny Allen (or whoever else) still were.

The video mentions that the boys were probably already dead before they ended up on the tracks - probably due to the beating/stabbing that officers Lane & Campbell inflicted.

Don's sister Gayla was reportedly at home, so she probably found out what happened through her boyfriend Freddy, flipped TF out and told her & Don's dad Curtis.

Beyond those points there, if you can follow this tangled mess, the video shows substantial documentation pointing to a coverup and paints Don/Gayla's father as a shady POS.

Beyond those points there, if you can follow this tangled mess, the video shows substantial documentation pointing to a coverup and paints Don/Gayla's father as a shady POS.

Thank you for clearing that up. I know for years people have blamed various shady politicians and members of law enforcement, as well as various people involved with the local criminal element...but it has never really led anywhere to anything concrete IMO. And it all seems to end up back with Dan Harmon's involvement somehow. Which I've never been able to believe 100%. He was the one who reopened the investigation after their deaths were ruled accidental, IIRC. If he were involved in this conspiracy, why would he do that? I also see that two police officers, Campbell and Lane, as the people who three witnesses saw beating the boys and putting them in the back of a police car on the night of their murders as the ones involved. But again, Harmon was the one who was pushing this theory to the grand jury, so these two were definitely not working in conjunction with Harmon or else why would he be so willing to throw them under the bus knowing that they could turn on him and rat him out?

It just seems like a complicated web that has accused several people, sometimes for political purposes, but nothing of any actual value has ever came out that would help solve this case. Which makes me think there is something totally unrelated to all of the drug drop or stumbled onto a drug deal theories. And I'll never understand why the man in the military fatigues who fired a gun at a police officer the week prior to the murders seems like an afterthought and is rarely discussed.

Thank you for clearing that up. I know for years people have blamed various shady politicians and members of law enforcement, as well as various people involved with the local criminal element...but it has never really led anywhere to anything concrete IMO. And it all seems to end up back with Dan Harmon's involvement somehow. Which I've never been able to believe 100%. He was the one who reopened the investigation after their deaths were ruled accidental, IIRC. If he were involved in this conspiracy, why would he do that? I also see that two police officers, Campbell and Lane, as the people who three witnesses saw beating the boys and putting them in the back of a police car on the night of their murders as the ones involved. But again, Harmon was the one who was pushing this theory to the grand jury, so these two were definitely not working in conjunction with Harmon or else why would he be so willing to throw them under the bus knowing that they could turn on him and rat him out?

It just seems like a complicated web that has accused several people, sometimes for political purposes, but nothing of any actual value has ever came out that would help solve this case. Which makes me think there is something totally unrelated to all of the drug drop or stumbled onto a drug deal theories. And I'll never understand why the man in the military fatigues who fired a gun at a police officer the week prior to the murders seems like an afterthought and is rarely discussed.


Assuming Danny Allen was involved, my first inclination would be to say he made that up and tossed it out there as a red herring.

However, the UM segment specifically mentions that the guy in fatigues was spotted by different eyewitnesses (I think?) which leads me back to the drug drop theory.

-The video mentions the existence of a private airstrip pretty close to the area of the tracks where the boys were found. It mentions that someone (either Linda Ives & co or the actual authorities) tried to trace the ownership of said airstrip, but the actual owners were never mentioned.

-Later on toward the end of the video, it mentioned a good half-dozen names of people who were later found dead, people who were either witnesses, privy to what was going on or just friends of Kevin & Don's (would have to go back and figure out if it mentioned how they were all connected)

-Given that one of those people later found dead was Keith McKaskle (was found stabbed over 130+ times) and given the fact the Crim. Justice system in that county/general area was thoroughly corrupt, then I think it'd be safe to say the guy in fatigues was either an owner of the airstrip or maybe a possible pilot.

Sorry to be bumping out of seemingly nowhere, but I relistened to a couple of podcasts over the past few days to and from my way to work on this case since it's been on my mind for some reason lately.

Assuming Danny Allen was involved, my first inclination would be to say he made that up and tossed it out there as a red herring.

However, the UM segment specifically mentions that the guy in fatigues was spotted by different eyewitnesses (I think?)

Yes, there were reports of a man fitting the description of the person Danny Allen says fired on him over multiple days by multiple citizens in the area. I suppose Allen could've been aware of these reports and made up a story, but to me that seems a little on the elaborate side.

While we're on the subject, I've been following this case for something close to 18 years. In all this time, I've never seen any truly compelling evidence whatsoever about Danny Allen's involvement in particular. I've never quite figured out why he gets wrapped up in this, as he was a patrolman with the Bryant Police Department. The boys were actually run over just over the neighboring Pulaski County line, in Alexander.

Kirk Lane and Jay Campbell--two people who are almost always named as being present on the tracks that night--both worked for the Pulaski County Sheriff's Office, as a narcotics detective and lieutenant respectively. I suppose what I'm getting at is why a couple of sheriff's officers with considerable rank would pull in a single patrolman from outside their own agency into this conspiracy that, as it's commonly understood, is supposed to have the likes of a county prosecutor at its head. Allen just doesn't fit in for me. Given the evidence to which we're privy, I don't see where he would have had the political influence and/or institutional knowledge like a Lane or a Campbell presumably would. And again, he's from an outside agency, which I imagine would make him a little more difficult to monitor and control, rendering him a less-than-ideal candidate to bring into such a situation.

Furthermore, if we assume the "man in military fatigues" was indeed involved in what went on at the tracks that night and that Allen was also involved, why would he even publicly attest to and recount this story about a similarly dressed man shooting at him?

I lean toward Allen not being involved, and that it went down exactly as he said it did. But there's obviously some reason his name keeps getting brought up in this, and I'm extremely curious as to why. I've often suspected it could be something as simple as a miscommunication or rumor that took off in investigation documents early on and has just been repeated so much for nearly 40 years now that it's simply accepted as fact.

I don't want to keep beating a dead horse, but the idea that police officers were invovled has never sat right with me. Let's assume that the boys did stumble across a drug deal on the tracks involving members of law enforcement, and that they are subsequently murdered and placed on the tracks. Why would the responding officers, who to my knowledge none of the responding officers to the scene have been implicated in their deaths, go along willingly with this coverup or lazily conclude that these were accidental deaths to the point that they repeatedly denied the existence of the tarp that was covering their bodies? It defies logic. I am willing to believe that the police department was lazy and inept, but not also believe that members of the same department are criminal masterminds lucky enough to have the lazy officers be the ones responding to the scene.

The bodies being covered with the tarp has always led me to believe that whoever covered their bodies more likely than not knew both of the boys. It may not have even been the person who killed them but was there to witness it. The problem with this case is that it has been tainted by the "Clinton body count" nonsense to the point that it seems near impossible to solve. It also somewhat taints the credibility of some of the claims Linda Ives has made over the years, IMO.

I am willing to believe that the police department was lazy and inept, but not also believe that members of the same department are criminal masterminds lucky enough to have the lazy officers be the ones responding to the scene.

I think the physical location of this crime muddies the waters on this particular point. Multiple agencies responded to the scene that morning, as it was difficult to discern who actually had jurisdiction as the bodies were found more or less on the Saline/Pulaski county line. So there are layers here beyond a single law enforcement agency and its personnel, and this only compounded as the investigation continued, to even the Arkansas State Police and the FBI. And that's always been a major complicating factor in this case, IMO.

The bodies being covered with the tarp has always led me to believe that whoever covered their bodies more likely than not knew both of the boys. It may not have even been the person who killed them but was there to witness it.

At least one name that is consistently provided as being one of the people present at the tracks, Keith McKaskle, knew Don personally as he was a friend of Curtis Henry. McKaskle was a known drug dealer and was murdered himself in November 1988.

The problem with this case is that it has been tainted by the "Clinton body count" nonsense to the point that it seems near impossible to solve. It also somewhat taints the credibility of some of the claims Linda Ives has made over the years, IMO.

I agree that it is very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff on this one for sure. I do still think this was drug-related, and that there was some degree of law enforcement involvement locally. What I've come to question is the that this is a neatly linked conspiracy. For example, it might be true that then-Governor Clinton covered for Fahmy Malak even when he issued utterly absurd rulings because he felt indebted to him for "saving" his mother's nursing license years earlier. And that might have been a separate conspiracy that had a direct effect on this case, and unfortunately an adverse one. But that's a lot different than Clinton actively directing Malak to obfuscate evidence here, which I don't believe happened.

I think the physical location of this crime muddies the waters on this particular point. Multiple agencies responded to the scene that morning, as it was difficult to discern who actually had jurisdiction as the bodies were found more or less on the Saline/Pulaski county line. So there are layers here beyond a single law enforcement agency and its personnel, and this only compounded as the investigation continued, to even the Arkansas State Police and the FBI. And that's always been a major complicating factor in this case, IMO.

IMO, this also hurts the theory that Dan Harmon successfully orchestrated a cover up with the help of law enforcement, as he would have had to have the cooperation of multiple law enforcement agencies to pull it off.


At least one name that is consistently provided as being one of the people present at the tracks, Keith McKaskle, knew Don personally as he was a friend of Curtis Henry. McKaskle was a known drug dealer and was murdered himself in November 1988.

McKaskle could have also known that Don liked to go night hunting in the area by the tracks. I am of the belief that their killer/s sought them out that night, not that they stumbled on to something illegal. The working theory is that the boys ripped off drugs from a drug dealer prior to their murder, and were killed because of it. The problem here is that if two teenaged boys stumbled upon a cache of drugs, they didn't tell a single soul about it? Seems unlikely that they wouldn't have at least told a friend about it.

Also, if the boys were walking the tracks and stumbled on to a drug deal in the middle of the night...why would they murder two teenagers in such a horrific way? It seems much easier to slip them money, or in the event that law enforcement actually were involved, arrest/cite them for spot hunting and cover up the drug deal that way.

And the man in the military fatigues complicates every scenario or theory.

I agree that it is very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff on this one for sure. I do still think this was drug-related, and that there was some degree of law enforcement involvement locally. What I've come to question is the that this is a neatly linked conspiracy. For example, it might be true that then-Governor Clinton covered for Fahmy Malak even when he issued utterly absurd rulings because he felt indebted to him for "saving" his mother's nursing license years earlier. And that might have been a separate conspiracy that had a direct effect on this case, and unfortunately an adverse one. But that's a lot different than Clinton actively directing Malak to obfuscate evidence here, which I don't believe happened.

Malak's involvment helped bolster the massive conspiracy theory claim when IMO, he was nothing more than an unqualified and lazy "doctor" who should have never held that position in the first place. But what doesn't get mentioned enough is that it was roughly 6 months after Malak's bogus "accidental" death ruling, a second autopsy (in early March IIRC) ruled the boys death's as homicides. And this second autopsy was spearheaded by the parents and Richard Garrett. And Garrett was one of the men implicated in the murders due to his role as deputy prosecutor to Dan Harmon. Which, I hate to keep circling back to this, but if Harmon was the mastermind why would he allow a second autopsy of the boys to rule their deaths as homicides?

IMO, this also hurts the theory that Dan Harmon successfully orchestrated a cover up with the help of law enforcement, as he would have had to have the cooperation of multiple law enforcement agencies to pull it off.

I struggle with the notion, too.

It's clear Harmon wasn't a good dude. He beat up women and at least one reporter, and assaulted police officers. He extorted money from people, and was found guilty on racketeering charges in the late '90s (this got him disbarred). He was found guilty of selling narcotics in 2010. He really does sound like exactly the kind of guy that might be caught up in some plot involving drug trafficking and the type to try to cover it up using his influence. He fits. But he would have to have a lot of people going along to get along from across law enforcement agencies. Maybe that's how corrupt it was at that time. Maybe it really was. But I've had questions about the scale of this thing for a few years now.

McKaskle could have also known that Don liked to go night hunting in the area by the tracks.

I've considered the idea that this was really McKaskle's operation and Harmon was simply someone who might have benefited with easy access to the product itself, and provided McKaskle with legal protection. But I don't know why he'd need to be at the tracks that night for any of that, or any night for that matter.

I am of the belief that their killer/s sought them out that night, not that they stumbled on to something illegal

This is complicated, because Kevin and Don parted ways for a few hours that evening and met up again later at some point. The exact times have never to my knowledge been nailed down, just that various witnesses reported seeing one boy but not the other over a block of time during the evening. I also remember reading about someone reporting the two of them visiting Don's sister Gayla at some point that day too, and her boyfriend at the time, Freddie Poe, was a known drug dealer. This may have been where they procured the marijuana that was later found in Kevin's pocket.

The working theory is that the boys ripped off drugs from a drug dealer prior to their murder, and were killed because of it. The problem here is that if two teenaged boys stumbled upon a cache of drugs, they didn't tell a single soul about it? Seems unlikely that they wouldn't have at least told a friend about it.

That's one theory. Another is that they were simply curious about the plane and the drops. But as Don was in proximity to at least three people who were either using or dealing drugs drugs (McKaskle, Poe, and Gayla), I think he may have had some knowledge of what was actually going on and took Kevin along to show him.

Also, if the boys were walking the tracks and stumbled on to a drug deal in the middle of the night...why would they murder two teenagers in such a horrific way? It seems much easier to slip them money, or in the event that law enforcement actually were involved, arrest/cite them for spot hunting and cover up the drug deal that way.

I think it's because they were afraid they'd say something regardless. Drug crimes tend to be pretty brutal.

And the man in the military fatigues complicates every scenario or theory.

Agreed. He almost certainly figures in, but how?

Malak's involvment helped bolster the massive conspiracy theory claim when IMO, he was nothing more than an unqualified and lazy "doctor" who should have never held that position in the first place. But what doesn't get mentioned enough is that it was roughly 6 months after Malak's bogus "accidental" death ruling, a second autopsy (in early March IIRC) ruled the boys death's as homicides. And this second autopsy was spearheaded by the parents and Richard Garrett. And Garrett was one of the men implicated in the murders due to his role as deputy prosecutor to Dan Harmon. Which, I hate to keep circling back to this, but if Harmon was the mastermind why would he allow a second autopsy of the boys to rule their deaths as homicides?

Richard Garrett is another Danny Allen for me. I just don't get a coverup vibe from this dude at all, for whatever that's worth.


Something tells me the truth is actually there in the drug theory mix, and that at least some of these names are indeed people who were involved. But it's just grown bigger than legend.

I struggle with the notion, too.

It's clear Harmon wasn't a good dude. He beat up women and at least one reporter, and assaulted police officers. He extorted money from people, and was found guilty on racketeering charges in the late '90s (this got him disbarred). He was found guilty of selling narcotics in 2010. He really does sound like exactly the kind of guy that might be caught up in some plot involving drug trafficking and the type to try to cover it up using his influence. He fits. But he would have to have a lot of people going along to get along from across law enforcement agencies. Maybe that's how corrupt it was at that time. Maybe it really was. But I've had questions about the scale of this thing for a few years now.

Agree regarding Harmon being a turd; but even after he went to prison, not one person, namely Campbell or Lane (both implicated by Garrett/Harmon re-investigation IIRC) have come forward and publicly accused him on the record as potentially being involved.

I've considered the idea that this was really McKaskle's operation and Harmon was simply someone who might have benefited with easy access to the product itself, and provided McKaskle with legal protection. But I don't know why he'd need to be at the tracks that night for any of that, or any night for that matter.

I'm much more open to the possibility that Harmon got involved with a coverup after the murders rather than he being the mastermind behind them.

This is complicated, because Kevin and Don parted ways for a few hours that evening and met up again later at some point. The exact times have never to my knowledge been nailed down, just that various witnesses reported seeing one boy but not the other over a block of time during the evening. I also remember reading about someone reporting the two of them visiting Don's sister Gayla at some point that day too, and her boyfriend at the time, Freddie Poe, was a known drug dealer. This may have been where they procured the marijuana that was later found in Kevin's pocket.

To me, the bolded is critical to solving this case. Where did they go and who did they see, if anyone? This person or persons could have known they were going to go spotlight hunting, or asked to join them. Did Curtis Henry actually say that he saw Kevin that night when Don came in to tell his father they were going hunting?

That's one theory. Another is that they were simply curious about the plane and the drops. But as Don was in proximity to at least three people who were either using or dealing drugs drugs (McKaskle, Poe, and Gayla), I think he may have had some knowledge of what was actually going on and took Kevin along to show him.

The marijuana found in Don's pants pocket would strongly suggest that he bought it from someone on that specific night. Their actions that night, IMO, suggest they bought the pot with the intention of smoking it in the woods while spotlighting. I don't think their actions show that they had gone out to the woods to investigate an area where drug deals/drops were happening on a routine basis.

Agreed. He almost certainly figures in, but how?

He's almost treated as an after thought in this case. Several articles don't even mention him, which is weird.

Something tells me the truth is actually there in the drug theory mix, and that at least some of these names are indeed people who were involved. But it's just grown bigger than legend.

Military fatigues guy was seen loitering around the tracks a week or so before the murders, and he shot at Danny Allen after he attempted to make contact with him. Whatever he was doing in that area was clearly nefarious. But it just seems odd that the cops never tried to locate this guy, create a sketch of what he looked like or was wearing, etc.

Agree regarding Harmon being a turd; but even after he went to prison, not one person, namely Campbell or Lane (both implicated by Garrett/Harmon re-investigation IIRC) have come forward and publicly accused him on the record as potentially being involved.

Correct. And while we're talking about those guys, something that's always been a hang-up for me about Lane and Campbell both being involved in this case is the completely divergent paths the two eventually took.

Jay Campbell was caught up in a pretty terrible corruption scandal after becoming chief of police in another town in Arkansas sometime in the early '00s and was forced to resign in disgrace; I think that's fairly well-known. Kirk Lane, however, is currently the director of the Arkansas Opioid Recovery Partnership and has had what looks to be a very impressive law enforcement career--and by all accounts an unblemished one save for the accusations in this case (which have also never been substantiated beyond two-ish accounts, one from a supposed eyewitness and another person who said he heard the story secondhand, IIRC).

This doesn't square to me. Why should one fall but not the other if they're both corrupt and supposedly enjoying protection from other corrupt officials at multiple levels?

I'm much more open to the possibility that Harmon got involved with a coverup after the murders rather than he being the mastermind behind them.

100%.

To me, the bolded is critical to solving this case. Where did they go and who did they see, if anyone? This person or persons could have known they were going to go spotlight hunting, or asked to join them. Did Curtis Henry actually say that he saw Kevin that night when Don came in to tell his father they were going hunting?

Curtis always maintained he saw only Don. The UM segment has Stack saying "Kevin waited on the porch while Don went inside to talk to his father", which I presume is probably based on information relayed to Curtis by Don when he came in to talk to him that night.

The marijuana found in Don's pants pocket would strongly suggest that he bought it from someone on that specific night. Their actions that night, IMO, suggest they bought the pot with the intention of smoking it in the woods while spotlighting. I don't think their actions show that they had gone out to the woods to investigate an area where drug deals/drops were happening on a routine basis.

I strongly believe they bought that marijuana from either Gayla, her boyfriend, or one of their associates earlier in the day. What their true intentions were out there were is something I'm not as sure about, but I don't totally discount the possibility that spotlighting and smoking were indeed the only things on the itinerary that night.

He's almost treated as an after thought in this case. Several articles don't even mention him, which is weird.

Military fatigues guy was seen loitering around the tracks a week or so before the murders, and he shot at Danny Allen after he attempted to make contact with him. Whatever he was doing in that area was clearly nefarious. But it just seems odd that the cops never tried to locate this guy, create a sketch of what he looked like or was wearing, etc.

In the UM segment, military fatigues guy looks to be wearing cheesecloth, pantyhose, or some other item obscuring his facial features when he turns around to fire the shot. I don't know if that's something that Allen reported or a bit of creative licensing on UM's part, but if true that could be a reason why we didn't get a composite.

I would also point out that this guy fired on Danny Allen specifically, and it would be kind of difficult to make sense of why--if one presumes Allen was somehow involved in the boys' deaths--the military fatigues guy would do this. This may be at least part of the reason why he's receded from the story over the years.

But you're right: this is the one person who we know for a fact was in the area at the time doing blatantly illegal things and yet it's just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ from the police it seems.

In the UM segment, military fatigues guy looks to be wearing cheesecloth, pantyhose, or some other item obscuring his facial features when he turns around to fire the shot. I don't know if that's something that Allen reported or a bit of creative licensing on UM's part, but if true that could be a reason why we didn't get a composite.

I would also point out that this guy fired on Danny Allen specifically, and it would be kind of difficult to make sense of why--if one presumes Allen was somehow involved in the boys' deaths--the military fatigues guy would do this. This may be at least part of the reason why he's receded from the story over the years.

But you're right: this is the one person who we know for a fact was in the area at the time doing blatantly illegal things and yet it's just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ from the police it seems.

I was reading an article about the case here (https://idfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/The-Boys-on-the-Tracks-Update-image.html), and it mentions towards the bottom:

Literally dozens of people have been reported claiming credit for the murders. Pearson says boasting of responsibility for the murders became a popular tool of drug dealers wanting to help assure that they were paid.

I could be 100% wrong, but my gut tells me the drug angle in this case is a gigantic red herring, largely because of the bolded above. I ultimately think that this coupled with the Clinton Body Count nonsense has clouded this case to be borderline unsolvable. And IMO, it's a reason why the military fatigues guy often gets overlooked or forgotten. I can't shake the feeling that whoever killed them wasn't that far off from Frank Casteel, and felt that the boys were trespassing on their land (or a spot in the woods where nefarious activities were regularly occurring).

I was reading an article about the case here (https://idfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/The-Boys-on-the-Tracks-Update-image.html), and it mentions towards the bottom:



I could be 100% wrong, but my gut tells me the drug angle in this case is a gigantic red herring, largely because of the bolded above. I ultimately think that this coupled with the Clinton Body Count nonsense has clouded this case to be borderline unsolvable. And IMO, it's a reason why the military fatigues guy often gets overlooked or forgotten. I can't shake the feeling that whoever killed them wasn't that far off from Frank Casteel, and felt that the boys were trespassing on their land (or a spot in the woods where nefarious activities were regularly occurring).

The Mara Leveritt book on which the article's based is even better.

This is one of the more bizarre and convoluted cases on UM, and I can see how it has garnered such discussion and inspired a book.

I'm watching Season 1 Episode 10 on FilmRise, which features RS interviewing prosecutor Richard Garrett for the update. RS has a calm and steely manner here, channeling his role as Eliot Ness, perhaps.

Richard Garrett mentions that the solution might be as simple as a migrant or a vagrant doing the crime. I have to believe that that is a red herring, because I'm not sure that a vagrant or migrant would have the sophistication involved, given that one of the boys was stabbed, the other bludgeoned, and both laid out on the tracks as if they were just sleeping, and not only that, covered with a green tarp, with one of their rifles laid out nearby. It's highly dubious that a vagrant or migrant would go to that level of detail and planning, but I could be wrong. On the other hand, he does mention possible police involvement, and when asked directly by RS, he says that there was a cover-up at the beginning, "whether inadvertent, through lack of attention, or through just plain stubbornness when this thing first got started." Interesting admission to say the least, but the case had gotten so much attention that it was prudent to say something.

This is one of the more bizarre and convoluted cases on UM, and I can see how it has garnered such discussion and inspired a book.

I'm watching Season 1 Episode 10 on FilmRise, which features RS interviewing prosecutor Richard Garrett for the update. RS has a calm and steely manner here, channeling his role as Eliot Ness, perhaps.

Richard Garrett mentions that the solution might be as simple as a migrant or a vagrant doing the crime. I have to believe that that is a red herring, because I'm not sure that a vagrant or migrant would have the sophistication involved, given that one of the boys was stabbed, the other bludgeoned, and both laid out on the tracks as if they were just sleeping, and not only that, covered with a green tarp, with one of their rifles laid out nearby. It's highly dubious that a vagrant or migrant would go to that level of detail and planning, but I could be wrong. On the other hand, he does mention possible police involvement, and when asked directly by RS, he says that there was a cover-up at the beginning, "whether inadvertent, through lack of attention, or through just plain stubbornness when this thing first got started." Interesting admission to say the least, but the case had gotten so much attention that it was prudent to say something.

Its not mentioned in the segment, but believe it or not this is yet another case that is mentioned in connection with the Clintons, Bill was governor of Arkansas at the time. And I think it has to do with one of the state officials questionable handling of the case and how Clinton apparently kept him even though he faced calls to resign. I don't remember the name of the official and Of course people flip out on here if you mention any case in connection with the Clintons its rather creepy. But its worth mentioning.

But I don't want to go to deeply into that and start a political argument I try to avoid that and stick with the facts of the case.

The thing I wonder about most, is the mysterious man in military uniform sighted close to the crime scene, I wonder if he actually existed or if it was just a red herring to throw off the investigation. Apparently a police officer saw him and claimed he was actually fired on by the man, along with a few other people and he fired on the officer and disappeared into the woods. If law enforcement was involved they could have made it up, I haven't watched the segment in awhile but it seems like other people not connected with the case saw him too.

Even if he did exist, obviously there is no way to know for sure if he was involved with the deaths of the two boys, but obviously if the encounter with police was true he was up to no good if he was firing on the police.

I think it's fine and probably correct to conclude that Governor Bill Clinton may have protected State Medical Examiner Fahmy Malak despite the latter's incompetence. To me it's the garden variety venality I expect from a governor in power way longer than necessary regardless of political party.

The problem is linking Malak to the noxious fumes of The Clinton Conspiracy garbage, which purports to show how Clinton was responsible not only for Mena drug drops but the bubonic plague, the assassination of Lincoln, and the start of World War I.

Its not mentioned in the segment, but believe it or not this is yet another case that is mentioned in connection with the Clintons, Bill was governor of Arkansas at the time. And I think it has to do with one of the state officials questionable handling of the case and how Clinton apparently kept him even though he faced calls to resign. I don't remember the name of the official and Of course people flip out on here if you mention any case in connection with the Clintons its rather creepy. But its worth mentioning.

But I don't want to go to deeply into that and start a political argument I try to avoid that and stick with the facts of the case.

The thing I wonder about most, is the mysterious man in military uniform sighted close to the crime scene, I wonder if he actually existed or if it was just a red herring to throw off the investigation. Apparently a police officer saw him and claimed he was actually fired on by the man, along with a few other people and he fired on the officer and disappeared into the woods. If law enforcement was involved they could have made it up, I haven't watched the segment in awhile but it seems like other people not connected with the case saw him too.

Even if he did exist, obviously there is no way to know for sure if he was involved with the deaths of the two boys, but obviously if the encounter with police was true he was up to no good if he was firing on the police.

The mysterious man in military fatigues could have been a red herring. That's one aspect of the case I could never figure out.