JFK Assassination [Archive] - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Awsi Dooger

08-02-2006, 03:41 PM

As for JFK, it was Lee Harvey Oswald in the book depository with a bolt-action rifle. Don't be duped by Oliver Stone's portrayal of the case.

Thank you, skunk ape. That case is a mystery only if you're desperate enough to twist it into one, ignoring all evidence and all logic. Kudos to UM for never pretending it was anything other than a lone nutcase. Once in a while the guy standing over the body with the gun in his hand is actually the guilty party. Although that's never the case on internet message boards.

I've been to that location. It's much smaller than it appears on TV or the clips. Oswald had plenty of time especially since his first shot, the one that missed completely, came earlier than originally estimated.

Read Gerald Posner's book. And go to the sites that legitimately look at the case, showing the angle Oswald would have had for each shot. The distance was not that great and for the second and third shot it was almost like duck hunting. The tree may have deflected the first shot, which Oswald took prematurely before the angle was ideal.

The magic bullet lined up perfectly, once you understand where Connally was seated in relation to Kennedy. It was not the same distance from the door. Connally was more toward the center of the car than Kennedy.

And as far as the conspiracy, remarkable that Oswald got the job at the book depository before Kennedy's trip to Dallas was announced and before that specific motorcade route was chosen. Anyone setting him up in that building must have been clairvoyant.

Oswald simply got lucky. He was a radical who took a pot shot through an open window and missed General Walker many months before he killed Kennedy.

Once again, the simplest explanation is normally the correct one. The conspiracy theorists hysterically want to add one wild variable after another and pretend it makes their claim more likely to be true, not less likely.

Forgetting everything else, just look at the second gunman aspect and you can see how absurd it is. Different shooters, one at ground level and another from the 5th floor. You know how difficult that is to coordinate? There was no evidence Oswald had a walkie talkie or any other type of communication device. What if one starts shooting 5 or 10 seconds before the other is ready? That foils the plot right there. Besides, pretend all you want, but if there were two shooters from radically different angles there would have been evidence of it. Actual evidence, like everything Oswald left at the scene. People who saw him arrive, similar to Oswald coming to work with his curtain rods. Not blurry shadows in the dark with people desperately and comically trying to invent the image of a person decades later.

You couldn't fool half or more of the people on the scene into believing there was only one shooter, if indeed there had been two, or more. What if shots came at the same time, from each angle? Bang Bang. Amazing that didn't happen, in such a short time frame, a matter of seconds for all the shots to be completed. The reason it didn't happen was somewhat basic; one assassin and acting alone.

My favorite of all are the claims Kennedy's body was manipulated on the plane back to Washington, to conceal the direction the bullet wounds came from. Are those guys that good? They have everything covered like that? Something as wildly incredibly unpredictable as gun shots but they know just what will happen? "Let's see, we'll hit him from the front but no one will have us on film or via still camera. None of our stray shots will zoom beyond Kennedy and go past him into the crowd in a direction only shots from our area could have traveled. The idiots in the crowd will believe there was only the guy from the building, the patsy. His shots will be so incompetent there might be one neck would or something, one we can basically ignore. Maybe we'll have him run away and kill a cop, something to make it look good. Then all we have to do is doctor the head wound and presto, it's like we were never there!"

skunk ape

08-02-2006, 03:51 PM

Damn, you made all of the points that I was going to make for me, Awsi Dooger (What is an Awsi Dooger, by the way?). You just saved me some time compiling a post and typing it to get under the skin of the conspiracy theorists. Thanks. :D

MR. MOTTO

08-02-2006, 03:51 PM

has anyone wondered why John John looked more like his stepfather than anyone else in the clan?
I doubt it.
take another look.
oops is the dbcooper.tk website in trouble again?

greatgarrett2

08-02-2006, 06:51 PM

UM probably could've pulled a JFK-Conspiracy or acted alone segment off.....You may recall the Son of Sam segment was a great one and fairly lengthy and presented some evidence that Berkowitz may or may not have acted alone.

UM could've done it......maybe centered around Lee Harvey Oswald and the domino effect on how people kept dying.....first, of course, JFK, then his alleged assassin, then Jack Ruby. Definately something going on there as weather Oswald acted alone or not.

That could've made a good enough segment.

UMLongtimefan

08-02-2006, 11:00 PM

Stone's JFK movie is highly entertaining. Unfortunately it is just entertainment. I believe Gerald Posner's(?) book and Peter Jennings special a few years ago pretty much shut the door closed on this case.

SpecialEd

08-03-2006, 12:48 AM

I'm not sure if there was a conspiracy or not but I think there are enough raised quations that it could have been an excellent Um segment...perehaps even a whole show. There are too many weird evets sounding JRK, RFK, and MLK to be coincidence.

And yeah, that guy who took photos of RFK being shot won his case but when the photos were on the way to bnbeing returned the delivery guy was robbed or maybe even murdered. Coincidence? Hmmm....

MsCooper

08-13-2006, 04:26 PM

Remember Dorthy Killgallen the journalist supposedly died of an overdose after interviewing Jack Ruby and her files from the interview were never found. She was in a chair fully clothed which was not the norm for her. Those who knew her did not know her to use drugs...

Also the snitch prositute who came up dead...don't remember the details on that.

MsCooper

08-13-2006, 04:47 PM

Dorothy discovered that Ruby and the slain Officer J.D. Tippit had been friends and were together in Ruby's Club at a meeting 2 weeks before the assassination with Bernard Weissman, who had put a JFK-Wanted ad in a Dallas newspapers in 1963. There was 4th man there - supposedly a rich Texas Oil man --- could we try a name like Rapport (never mind were this name comes from).

During that visit she stumbled onto some information and told others that she had discovered something. She referred to an man she called the Ferret man. This man was a friend of Jack Ruby's. Mob mongel Marcello and other Alpha 88 and coverts from Florida to Texas.

She was very secretive and scared - hiding something she was afraid of as some of us have done for yrs and later was dead of an overdose. Her files were gone. Her interview and the files were swept under a rug just like many things have been. Those who knew her know she did not OD.

MsCooper

08-15-2006, 01:50 AM

A friend of mine was quick to point out that Dorthy was sitting up in her bed and there was a book in her lap - but according to friends it was a book she had already read. Also her reading glasses where in the other room????

What is a ferret? Who was the ferret? Was he someone working both sides??
Does anyone out there know who the Ferret man was --- in so far as I know not one sole knows except the men at that table and they aren't talking - rather difficult to communicate from the here-after.

Did Dorthy know the Ferret Man - is that why she did not identify him????
A woman would not lie on her bed fully cloth sitting up...to commit suicide unless it was a special outfit and this was not a special outfit. She was not depressed. She did not use drugs. This was not typical of her.

She liked her papers delivered to her door in the morning and evening.

MsCooper

09-06-2006, 12:54 AM

The 60's and 70's - the crime element that helped to implement all of this has given way to even more violence due to the drugs that the MAFIA and other groups peddled in this country.

These groups opened the highway and now we are flooded with chaos and death - the drug dealers are now controling the streets and it is no longer safe to sleep with an open window or enjoy a family outing in the backyard in some neighborhoods.

You can start with the Kennedy Assasination progressing to our current problems and even the MAFIA has fallen prey to the New Mafia GangStyle.
This has become a terrifying place to live and yet we are safer than other countries. I fear what future generations will be facing in the aftermath of the 60's and 70's.

MsCooper

09-11-2006, 02:29 AM

There was so much leading up to the day that Kennedy died. How much of the history of the 60's regarding Cuba and the Mafia can anyone tell me about that we might not find in a text in the library? Does anyone have a clue what the Alpha 88 was and were they trained and who formed them and what they were really all about. Believe me there is nothing in the libraries to be found and little on the WEB.

I truly believe that if todays generation knew some of the things that the older generation has been thru that they might take the occurrences regarding cover-up and covert group a little more seriously. These are groups of individuals who actually change the course of politics...with all of its wealth and power behind it...the little man with no money doesn't have a chance to win an election today.

justins5256

02-02-2007, 12:53 PM

Was a post deleted from this thread? This thread was on page one yesterday and now it seems to have disappeared. Here are some of my thoughts on the assassination of President Kennedy.

Before we look at the conspiracy angle, there are a few things I think you should know about the life and personality of Lee Harvey Oswald. Ever since he was a teenager, Oswald had an interest in political and social issues. He joined the US marine corp. in his late teens where he studied and mastered the Russian language in his spare time. Most would say Oswald’s overall performance in the corp. was lackluster at best. After a court martial, and other negative experiences in the corp., Oswald obtained an early discharge, declared himself a Marxist, and defected to the Soviet Union. Oswald expected the Soviets would greet him with open arms for giving up his life in the “free world”. Instead Soviet officials were shocked by Oswald’s willingness to defect and told him that he could not remain in their country for any extended period of time. Oswald was crushed by the rebuff and attempted to commit suicide by slashing his wrists. In 1962, Oswald returned to the United States with his Russian wife, Marina, and their newborn. Rejected by one communist country, Oswald turned his attention to Cuban affairs, and the dictator Fidel Castro, whom he admired. His fascination with Cuban politics eventually led to an unsuccessful attempt to assassinate retired Major General Edwin Walker. Walker was a well-known and vocal anti-Castro activist who just happened to live in Dallas. Oswald staked out Walkers home, and his surveillance culminated one night when he fired a single shot at Walker, ironically with the same rifle he would use to kill Kennedy. The bullet shattered a window and narrowly missed Walker. Although his attempt on Walker’s life had failed, Oswald preserved evidence of his crime in the hope that he could some day use it to the gain the respect of Cuban leaders. Marina was not pleased with Oswald’s activities and told him to move out. Oswald set his sites on New Orleans, and eventually succeeded in opening a local chapter of the “Fair Play for Cuba Committee”, leaving Marina and the children behind in Dallas. He was arrested at least twice when fights broke out during his otherwise peaceful demonstrations on a New Orleans street corner. During this time, there is some evidence that suggests Oswald attempted to play both sides of the Cuba issue. He tried on numerous occasions to infiltrate local anti-Castro organizations, presumably so he could spy on their activities. It is easy to see how conspiracy theories are born here, as Oswald’s activities brought him into contact with all sorts of shady characters on both sides of the Castro/Cuba issue. Both sides hated President Kennedy immensely. Pro-Castro groups disliked Kennedy’s invasion of Cuba during the Bay of Pigs. Anti-Castro groups felt Kennedy did too little in Bay of Pigs and blamed him for the operation’s failure. Politics aside, Oswald did manage to reconcile his differences with Marina, and he visited his family briefly in Dallas while en-route to Mexico City. It was Oswald’s hope that he could obtain a travel visa that would allow him to go to Cuba. Oswald’s request was ultimately rejected. Cuban officials with whom Oswald spoke to that day remember his reaction to the rejection. At least one claimed that he made a threatening remark about JFK. When Oswald returned to Dallas, Marina informed him that an FBI agent, James Hosty, had interviewed her. The FBI apparently considered Oswald a “person of interest” after he defected, and they wanted to know why he was now attempting to get a travel visa to Cuba. Oswald was enraged. Throughout his life, Oswald had the delusion that the FBI was watching him. He even went so far as to use different aliases to avoid detection. Prior to the attack on Walker’s life, Oswald had lost a very god job, and he thought the FBI was responsible. The fact that he wife had been interrogated further fueled these delusions. Oswald responded in kind by visiting Hosty’s office, and leaving him a threatening letter. In the letter, which has since been destroyed, Oswald allegedly threatened to blow up the Dallas Police Department, and the FBI office if Hosty didn’t leave his wife alone. This incident occurred in early October of ’63, a little over a month before President Kennedy was killed. In the weeks preceding the assassination, Oswald and his wife had another falling out. At this point in time, Oswald was living in another part of town, closer to work, but away from his family. He visited them every weekend. After this last argument, it seemed as though Marina was considering cutting him off for good. Thursday November 21st was the last day the couple would spend together. Oswald tested Marina by suggesting that he may not come to visit Thanksgiving weekend. Marina did not object, much to his dismay. Oswald awoke the following morning and prepared for work. He left behind all the money he had - $170 in cash, his wedding ring, and he told Marina, who was half asleep, to use the money to buy whatever she and the kids needed. At 12:30 that afternoon, shots were fired at President Kennedy’s motorcade.

Those are the highlights of Oswald’s complex history, as much as I could condense it. Based on these facts, I think a conspiracy is unlikely for four reasons.

First, the attack on Kennedy was virtually a carbon copy of the attack on General Walker, and the police found no evidence that Oswald had assistance in planning the Walker attempt.

Second, I find it incredible that Oswald would be making threats to an FBI official just weeks before the assassination if he were an integral part of a conspiracy. If a conspiracy existed, Oswald would have blown it had Hosty followed up and investigated the threat.

Third, the fact that Oswald so desperately wanted to be with his family on Thanksgiving weekend suggests he didn’t have a clear plan involving others. In my mind, Oswald wanted to be with his family more than he wanted to kill Kennedy. Had Marina not shunned him, he probably wouldn’t have gone through with it.

Finally, Oswald’s behavior and activity on the morning of the assassination suggests he was not thinking rationally. His comments, in my mind, come across as “I’m not important, don’t worry about me. Take the money and buy what YOU want. I’ll show you…” I believe his motives were a lot more personal than political. Not to say that his plan to shoot JFK was a spur of the moment idea. Rather I think Oswald had been planning to do it as a last resort. In this case, his final attempt to reconcile his differences with Marina failed. In his mind, there was nothing else to do except lash out in retaliation.

Oswald would accomplish many things by killing JFK. He would earn the respect and admiration of the Cubans, he would humiliate the FBI, and he would leave his wife with a feeling of guilt that will linger with her for the rest of her life. While I don’t believe Oswald was hell-bent on killing JFK, the coming together of all of these events in Oswald’s world just happened to coincide with Kennedy’s trip to Dallas and culminated when Oswald lashed out in a way that would have disastrous consequences.

The only hardcore evidence of a second shooter was found in audio recordings made by the Dallas Police Department. On November 22nd, the microphone on a motorcycle officer’s two-way radio became jammed in the “on” position for about five minutes. The DPD routinely tape-recorded all radio traffic over the police channels. So, sound was being recorded the entire time the officer’s microphone was stuck open. This tape recording was largely ignored until the mid-seventies when Congress re-investigated Kennedy’s death. Scientific analysis of the tape indicated that no fewer than four shots were fired during the assassination. It was further claimed that the third, and fatal shot was fired from the grassy knoll, while the others appeared to come from the Texas School Book Depository. However, these findings have been hotly contested, with the possibility of a new audio analysis in the near future. First off, the quality of the recording is very poor. The spot where the “shots” were found consists of a lot of static, tape hiss, and the overpowering sound of the officer’s motorcycle engine. Also, the DPD’s dictabelt taping system was not designed for quality performance, and we are talking about 1963 technology. Second, I don’t think they were ever able to establish exactly where the motorcycle officer was when these sounds were recorded. They also couldn’t establish a time frame either. To paraphrase one Kennedy biographer and conspiracy skeptic: “Congress wasted tax player dollars examining a tape recording of sounds picked up miles away and ten minutes too late”. I would be surprised if anything of value is ever found in the dictabelt recordings

crystaldawn

02-02-2007, 01:03 PM

Was a post deleted from this thread? This thread was on page one yesterday and now it seems to have disappeared.

Yes because it had links to YouTube.

kane7474

02-03-2007, 12:26 PM

Im sure the CIA is overjoyed when hearing people say that Oswald worked alone and there was no conspiracy involved. Kennedy ran afoul of this agency not only over the bay of pigs but also with Vietnam. We all also understand about how the mafia wanted him gone for turning his back on them. It wasn't until Kennedy disolved the Federal Reserve that the death warrant was issued. Check into the facts here, after Kennedy was gone, Johnson re established the Federal Reserve system, escalated Vietnam into a full blown war and backed off of the Mafia. The CIA has been programming assasains for many years now, sound crazy to you? Thats exactly what they want you to think. Did you know that Mark David Chapman, John Hinkley Jr. and the leaders of the Jonestown cult were are part of the World vision church, which has been rumored for years to be controlled by CIA interest? We know the CIA used mind control expirements in the 50s using LSD. That didnt work so well so thats all you hear about. Do you really think they just gave up there? Thats what they'd like you to think. The successful mind control expirements that allow them to program an assasain have never been made public nor will they ever. Anytime someone like me brings this to light most of the general public will re-act just how they are expected to. By using words like wakko, conspiricy theory nut jub etc etc. Think about it and dig in, forget what you think you know if you want to get to the raw truth of anything.

justins5256

02-03-2007, 12:49 PM

Ever notice how it's always the CIA?

kane7474

02-04-2007, 01:01 AM

Ever notice how it's always the CIA?
When it comes to taking out high profile targets and making it look like the work of a lone crazed killer who else would pull the strings? JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King,George Wallace, John Lennon, Ronald Reagan, all had the same story to their deaths or attempted deaths. Crazed maniac shoots and kills for whatever reason, lots of cover ups and unanswered questions left.

clj124

02-04-2007, 08:38 AM

One point I have always made about the JFK conspiracy is that the amount of people that Oliver Stone claimed to be involved with this case would have had to have a huge convention in order to plan this.

justins5256

02-04-2007, 12:40 PM

kane7474

02-12-2007, 02:35 PM

Kane7474,

If you get a chance, you should really read "American Assassins: The Darker Side of Politics" by Dr. James Clarke. The book is a compilation of psychological profiles of a handful of famous assassins. I checked my copy for you, and Oswald, Sirhan, Bremer and James Earl Ray are included among others. There is no mention of Hinckley, but I see that Clarke has written another book called "John Hinckley Jr. and other Dangerous People" so that may be of some interest. Unlike other books, this book does not get into the mechanics of each assassination or assassination attempt. As I said, it gives in depth psychological profiles of the assassins, and even has excerpts from their diaries. Arthur Bremer's was particularly memorable. Once you read about these men's lives and backgrounds, I think you'll reach a similar conclusion that I did: these guys really were "lone nuts" and not the products of conspiracy.

The problem with conspiracy theories in general is that they rely heavily on scattered, often provable, facts. Yet, there is a larger underlying idea that ties these facts together, and that concept is NOT provable, but is, in fact, difficult to disprove. I don't mean this to sound insulting, but you really should consider going to a community college and taking "criminology 101" or a basic introductory criminal justice course. You may even be able to audit the course which means that you won't have to take exams or have it count for any credit. The reason I'm suggesting this is because I think you'll learn that even simple conspiracies are difficult to pull off.

Then step back and look at the enormous conspiracy theory that you and others are perpetuating, and ask yourself "does this make sense?"

I'm saying all this because I once was where you are. But, there comes a point when you just have to step back, assess the facts, set aside internet rumor and realize that the simple explanation may in fact be the correct one.
Allright so your saying all of these people were "lone nuts" right? There were no conspiracys by government agencies? If Im reading you correctly you seem to think that certain people are just crazed enough to pick a high profile target and take them out right? If your theory is true then please explain why assasinations in this country have stopped? Was there just one wave of insane assasains born with this predisposition to murder politicians and other high profile people? As I see it the assasination era of this country started with JFK and ended with Reagan. So what happened to the Oswald types, the Sirhans, the hinkley or Earl Ray people? Do you beileve that after the 1960s people were no longer born with the high profile killer gene, or is it possible that now with the media under government control we no longer need to kill someone to take them out. It's much easier nowadays to destroy someone publicly without having to off them. Is it also possible that with all the rumours and leaks about the CIA and FBI plotting to assasinate people they can no longer afford the risk of carrying out such actions? When it comes to JFK maybe you should study the life of Julius Ceaser, there are many comparisons to be made, one of which being there were plenty of people involved and no one was brought to justice.

Huskerz85

02-12-2007, 11:24 PM

A BBC Newsnight special, highlighting the Assassination of JFK's brother, RFK, features an interview w/an aquaintance (ex lawyer) of former CIA operative David Morales........this aquantance has quoted Morales (not sure if I got his name right) as saying "I was in Dallas when we got that mother------ and I was in Los Angeles when got the little bas****"

The Newsnight special goes on to say Morales and 2-3 other operatives were absolutely incensed at the Kennedy's for withdrawing air support during the Bay of Pigs invasion and that this was the driving reason behind their intense hatred for JFK/RFK

kane7474

05-02-2007, 10:53 PM

Awsi Dooger

05-10-2007, 12:55 AM

Here's something new for all of you complicent kool aid drinkers that that beleive Oswald acted alone. E Howard Hunt made a tape on his death bed where he basically reveals all of the details behind the assasination of JFK. As most of us already new many high level government and military people were involved. The tapes are airing on certain radio shows now and I will post a transcipt as soon as I have one.

Ha! I missed this gem while on my trip.

Now there's a reliable source, convicted Watergate felon E. Howard Hunt. How many years did he spend in jail again?

And here we are again with the improper use of words. Hunt didn't reveal or admit anything. He made ridiculous CLAIMS. I just read them and they are predictably non-specific and flimsy. He naturally wants to shoot for the other party so he identifies Lyndon Johnson as the source of the plot to kill JFK. How hard am I allowed to laugh? The old I'm-desperate-to-be-president-so-I'll-knock-off-the-boss routine. :lol:

Sure. The boss whose brother just happens to be attorney general. And I'll make sure it's done in my home state. Might as well put a black mark on Dallas, Texas forever. And he gets the grassy knoll in there, with a French gunman pulling the trigger. :lol: This is great stuff. There's also a part where one of the principals is willing to go along because JFK had an affair with his wife and therefore his life is basically over and he's willing to kill JFK. Let's sneak in all the stereotypes and sub plots.

Did I mention that Hunt wrote novels in his post-Watergate pathetic life? :lol:

Let's see, Oswald can be traced to buying the specific rifle. He took the job at the Book Depository before JFK's trip was planned or the route known. He took a pot shot through the window at General Walker in an attempted assassination with the same rifle. He was a marksman in the military. He brought a suspicious package he called curtain rods to work that day. He fled the building immediately and killed officer Tippett. He hid in the theater before being captured.

Nope. Nothing there. Obviously we're supposed to believe the latest wacko instead, in a desperate attempt to earn posthumous publicity for his sorry criminal life.

No thank you. I have multiple functioning brain cells.

kane7474

05-10-2007, 07:46 AM

Ha! I missed this gem while on my trip.

Now there's a reliable source, convicted Watergate felon E. Howard Hunt. How many years did he spend in jail again?

And here we are again with the improper use of words. Hunt didn't reveal or admit anything. He made ridiculous CLAIMS. I just read them and they are predictably non-specific and flimsy. He naturally wants to shoot for the other party so he identifies Lyndon Johnson as the source of the plot to kill JFK. How hard am I allowed to laugh? The old I'm-desperate-to-be-president-so-I'll-knock-off-the-boss routine. :lol:

Sure. The boss whose brother just happens to be attorney general. And I'll make sure it's done in my home state. Might as well put a black mark on Dallas, Texas forever. And he gets the grassy knoll in there, with a French gunman pulling the trigger. :lol: This is great stuff. There's also a part where one of the principals is willing to go along because JFK had an affair with his wife and therefore his life is basically over and he's willing to kill JFK. Let's sneak in all the stereotypes and sub plots.

Did I mention that Hunt wrote novels in his post-Watergate pathetic life? :lol:

Let's see, Oswald can be traced to buying the specific rifle. He took the job at the Book Depository before JFK's trip was planned or the route known. He took a pot shot through the window at General Walker in an attempted assassination with the same rifle. He was a marksman in the military. He brought a suspicious package he called curtain rods to work that day. He fled the building immediately and killed officer Tippett. He hid in the theater before being captured.

Nope. Nothing there. Obviously we're supposed to believe the latest wacko instead, in a desperate attempt to earn posthumous publicity for his sorry criminal life.

No thank you. I have multiple functioning brain cells.
Did you miss the part where he said that Oswald was indeed involved? You also seem to leave off in your timeline of events that Oswald was murdered. Can you explain that? Why did someone want to keep him silent? Howard Hunt made these tapes when he was near death and had nothing to gain by them. You say he was trying to blame the other party but forget that he also implicated himself.

TracyLynnS

11-23-2011, 12:33 AM

(Robert Kennedy / Sirhan Sirhan)

Regarding RFK's assassination, I ran across this article today. It's from 3/1/2011, so Kennedy followers may already be aware of it, but it's news to me.

Sirhan Sirhan's lawyer planned to present new evidence at the parole board hearing scheduled for 3/14/2011, suggesting that Sirhan did not act alone, was potentially brain washed and cannot remember anything about the assassination.

The lawyer states, "There is no question he was hypno-programmed. He was set up. He was used. He was manipulated." He said that he believes Sirhan was brainwashed to kill Kennedy and then his memories were deliberately erased via the hypno-programming procedure. :eek: also :confused: and :rolleyes: with a bit of this :cuckoo: .

Cyril Wecht even weighs in with his opinion that it's scientifically plausible to hypnotize someone and induce them to murder. He just doesn't know if there was enough evidence to suggest that in Sirhan's case.

The article explains that parole hearings are typically not the platform to introduce new evidence, or retry a case. Boards typically want to hear convicts express remorse for their crimes, not deny remembering them.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/robert-kennedys-killer-sirhan-sirhan-brainwashed/story?id=13029050#.TswFBWPTppw

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-18-2014, 05:38 AM

Regarding the assassination of John F. Kennedy, I go back and forth on that. Yes, there is ample evidence that plenty of individuals and groups with massive motives wanted Kennedy dead, and some interesting coincidences beginning with how many of these people were in Dallas that day. For those who believe in a government conspiracy regarding UFOs (and for those who don't, Lord help your poor innocent souls :whatever:), it's interesting that Kennedy is the only president since the coverups began to demand full disclosure. Ten days after doing so, he was dead. If that had anything to do with it, he wouldn't be the first or the last, which is one of many reasons the government cannot make full disclosure.

There are also indications that shots were fired from behind a fence which would have been in front of Kennedy at the time (gunshots heard from there, suspicious activity seen, etc.) Now, there is no indication (proven) that any shots fired from the front actually hit him--but isn't it interesting that if Oswald would have missed, someone else was perhaps ready to do the job? Not to mention the autopsy was botched in the first place, a lot of materials are missing from it and JFK's brain hasn't been accounted for since 1965. :rolleyes:

That being said, there is a lot of evidence for Oswald acting alone, a few examples of which are:

1. If the C. I. A. and whoever else wanted JFK dead, why would they recruit a nutjob like Oswald?

2. How would they even get in touch with Oswald to let him know where and when to carry out the hit? He was there because he already worked in the building! (Granted, he knew enough in advance to pick up the rifle from its hiding place--it's not as if he kept a rifle at work all the time.)

3. Any advanced organization planning the crime of the century wouldn't supply their hitman with the crappiest gun available--one with which an expert marksman can barely fire that number of shots in that amount of time, (which has been tried numerous times and shown to be possible, but with great skill required), let alone with that degree of deadly accuracy (two hits out of three shots--the third not only fatal but quite devastating in terms of damage).

So, okay, you've almost got me convinced of Oswald acting alone, with maybe someone else lying in wait working separately from Oswald, and maybe even attempting to shoot Kennedy at the same time, but not hitting him.

BUT--AND I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW COMPLETELY I DIDN'T SEE THIS UNTIL YESTERDAY--

AFTER SEEING THE ZAPRUDER FILM COUNTLESS TIMES (and I need hardly say Warning: Graphic, right? I remember the newscaster the first time it was on TV, "For God's sake, get Granny and the kids out of the room!"--) I guess I just spent my time trying to see which way he was falling, to tell where the shot may have come from, instead of looking closely at its effect.

I SIMPLY MUST ASK:

How is the film showing a COMPLETELY different wound than the autopsy photos?

http://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/wound.html

Film shows him getting blasted in the side of the head in front of the right ear, with almost certainly some damage to the face and NONE to the back of the head! Autopsy photos show undamaged face and extensive damage on top of and back of the head, behind the ear!

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/autopsy.htm

As for RFK, yes, that was a conspiracy. Guess I'll post that on a thread dedicated to that case, though.

isotope

11-19-2014, 04:14 AM

kane7474

11-19-2014, 08:44 AM

Oswald acted alone.

To believe otherwise is to believe that dozens of people were approached and asked if they wished to kill the President, and all immediately said "yes" without exception.

To believe otherwise is also to believe that the CIA/Mafia/Cubans/USSR (circle where applicable) when planning to kill the President, thought the ideal person to carry out the deed was a mentally unstable, wife beating itinerant labourer, and the best place to carry out the deed was in broad daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses.
This is absolutley wrong . Oswald was CIA . He took orders and did what he was told. He went to Russia to spy but they were on to him. He then tried the same thing in Cuba but the Russians had warned them about him .
You do not need dozens of people involved in a conspiracy to kill the president. You need only a few people at the top and those underneath simply follow orders without question .
Example, shortly after the assasanition j Edgar Hoover issues memos to FBI offices sayin something to the effect that we have our man and don't let any other theories get started. Now this doesn't mean FBI agents were in on the killing it just means they follow prefers without question.
Much like the members of the warren commission. They were not assembled to find the truth but instead to prove that Oswald acted alone. This was what they were instructed to do . It does not mean they were in on it . Some of the mbers knew Oswald did not act alone which is why they did not want to serve on the commission .

irehtman

11-19-2014, 08:47 AM

I think the future U.S, president that will get elected will be 41 years old, gets re-elected at 45 and departs at 49 and dies after 50.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-19-2014, 06:27 PM

Sent the following message to Brad Meltzer, who did the Lost History program seeking JFK's missing brain:

Brad--

When I say, "if everyone was truthful," it seems to me the entire "it's at Arlington" theory rests with this John Metzler, the cemetery superintendent who oversaw every aspect of the 1967 reinterment.

1. Nothing can have gone in the casket or the vault because the vault was sealed in 1963 and never reopened.

2. Nothing can have been put in the new grave before it was dug. (Duh.)

3. Nothing can have been put in the new grave, or the old one either for that matter, during the ceremony, or after it while people were still around--too many witnesses.

4. The only way anything can have gone in the new grave is if it was dug well before the ceremony, Bobby Kennedy (assuming he had the brain), paid this Metzler something to keep quiet while he put something in the bottom of the grave, then covered it so no one would know anything was down there. One would have to ascertain when the new grave was dug and try to account for Bobby's whereabouts the whole time it was open, assuming he didn't assign this vital job to someone else. (Not Teddy...please!)

5. If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, Bobby Kennedy is practically the only person with any motive to take the brain. Now, you don't suppose he just told whoever was in on it (Teddy, possibly Steve Smith and a choice few others), "Let's just keep the damn thing around, wait till the next family member dies" (supposing that to be one of his parents) "and put it in with them," meaning it is at Arlington--with him!

6. If you don't believe in conspiracy theories--and I don't want to, but I'd like to see anyone explain the discrepancies just between the film and the autopsy photos, along with about a million other things--there are far too many suspects to mention and I don't want to "go there." No one can prove Bobby took it--and if anyone (surviving) knows about it (his widow Ethel, and only surviving sister Jean would be among the few if any), they don't want to besmirch his memory and will take it to their own graves.

7. It would be undesirable to see people go poking around the grave as they did with Lincoln's, to the extent that his son had to have him encased in cement, but perhaps at some future date ground-penetrating technology will be sophisticated enough to tell if anything extra is in JFK or RFK's graves.

I remember seeing the headline "President Kennedy's Brain is Missing" at least 40 years ago and finding it pretty wild. Personally, I enjoyed your presentation of the case. You showed remarkable restraint not to show (or even mention) the brain-stealing scene from Young Frankenstein.

(End of Message.)

In all seriousness, I would think the Kennedy family would WANT. THIS. SOLVED! Not only to know the answers for themselves, but if you had every crackpot on the street approaching you claiming to have "figured out the solution," wouldn't you want to be able to say, "It's been solved; case closed." It just adds to the conspiracy theories that they did not launch their own investigations into the deaths of JFK and RFK--makes it look as if "they didn't want to be next."

kane7474

11-19-2014, 09:31 PM

isotope

11-19-2014, 10:20 PM

No Kennedy sought the presidency after rfk was killed.

Completely untrue. Ted Kennedy ran against Carter all the way in the 1980 Democractic Nomination.

In that case, Chappaquiddick had far more to do with Ted's failure to get the presidency than any nefarious plan by the Powers That Be.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-19-2014, 11:31 PM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-20-2014, 12:10 AM

YOU GUYS, SERIOUS CONSPIRACY HERE!!! I posted my messages from above, starting with the one to Brad Meltzer, to H2's and Brad Meltzer's Facebook pages and THEY KEEP GETTING DELETED! :eek: IT IS NOT A MISTAKE, THEY WERE THERE AND DISAPPEARED AT LEAST TWICE! The one to H2 literally disappeared as quick as I could turn around! I am now copying them to my own Facebook page and see if they stay up! :wallbang :mumble:

After eight hours, the repost on Brad Meltzer's page is still up. Posted the following on H2's page and it's still up.

H2, WHY do my posts regarding evidence about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy keep getting deleted? Have I struck a nerve here?? Why do you bring up the subject if you don't want opinions? (I posted the same thing word for word on several message boards and those are still there--so it ain't them...or ME!) I just reposted, came here to post a comment on my post, and it was ALREADY GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

According to this http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/brain.txt the most likely scenario was that Robert F. Kennedy received all autopsy materials in question and kept those he deemed most important (the main one being the brain), and did not let anyone else in on what he kept or what he did with it, which is only a best guess--no proof! Superintendent John Metzler specifically denied my guess in item 4 above: "Metzler stated further that no one placed anything in the new or old gravesite besides the vault."

TheUntouchables

11-20-2014, 04:55 PM

Oswald acted alone.

To believe otherwise is to believe that dozens of people were approached and asked if they wished to kill the President, and all immediately said "yes" without exception.

Is that really how you believe a conspiracy works, people are simply asked if they want to kill someone?

To believe otherwise is also to believe that the CIA/Mafia/Cubans/USSR (circle where applicable) when planning to kill the President, thought the ideal person to carry out the deed was a mentally unstable, wife beating itinerant labourer, and the best place to carry out the deed was in broad daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses.

Did you forget that it was a sniper who carried out the assassination? Broad daylight wouldn't actually be a problem. You make it sound like Oswald walked up to JFK and shot him point blank. At least use some common sense if you're going to be smug and deal in absolutes.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-21-2014, 02:21 AM

Every time I look this up, I hear a new one. Someone proposed that Scanners made Kennedy's head explode (as in the 1981 movie). http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1018315-scanners/ If Jackie was one, I guess it could have been her. :explode:

Update to the "Just when you think you've heard them all" file: apparently now some poor sucker has confessed to it! http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Newsmax-TV-I-Killed-JFK/2014/11/13/id/607211/

isotope

11-21-2014, 04:03 AM

[EDIT= Snipped for an unduly snarky and unpleasant comment, which, on reflection I shouldn't have made - apologies to anyone who read it]

Did you forget that it was a sniper who carried out the assassination?

No, which - per Occam's Razor - invalidates the need for a conspiracy.

Oswald :
a) Was violent (an inveterate wife beater) and mentally unstable
b) Had previously made an attempt on the life of Edwin Walker (by sniper shooting!)
c) Detested Kennedy
d) Had access to firearms and experience in using them
e)Was able to easily access a prime vantage point to fire at the President by dent of his employment
f) Was presented with a prime target ( forget this nonsense about a "miracle shot" - anyone who has been to Dealy Plaza knows how small it is and how anyone with any experience in shooting would have little difficulty in hitting a target the size of Kennedy from the Book Depository Window).
g) Was the only employee of the Book Despository to leave work immediately folowing the shooting
h) In killing Officer Tippet displayed behaviour that was entirely consistent with being an assassin.
i) Was not seen with anyone immediately before or after the shooting.

That's it. There is nothing - absolutely NOTHING - that makes it impossible (or even improbable) that LHO acted alone. Hell, if the Powers That Be wanted Kennedy gone, it would have been a far easier to ruin his career by leaking details of his philandering, thereby squashing any re-election hopes in 64, and denying him the status of martyr.

All this talk about conspiracy is basically due to two factors:
a) A refusal to believe that someone as insignificant as a hateful, moronic, wife beating little psychopath like Oswald could kill a President and alter the course of US history;
b) conflicting responses from the witnesses there, who understandably in all the confusion, fear and chaos during and immediately after the shooting (and the echoing acoustics of the Plaza buildings) naturally gave conflicting reports about the number and direction of the shots (Yet STILL, the majority of witnesses reported three shots emanating from the Book Depository window).

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-22-2014, 06:07 AM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-22-2014, 06:57 AM

No, which - per Occam's Razor - invalidates the need for a conspiracy.

Oswald :
a) Was violent (an inveterate wife beater) and mentally unstable
b) Had previously made an attempt on the life of Edwin Walker (by sniper shooting!)
c) Detested Kennedy
d) Had access to firearms and experience in using them
e)Was able to easily access a prime vantage point to fire at the President by dent of his employment
f) Was presented with a prime target ( forget this nonsense about a "miracle shot" - anyone who has been to Dealy Plaza knows how small it is and how anyone with any experience in shooting would have little difficulty in hitting a target the size of Kennedy from the Book Depository Window).
g) Was the only employee of the Book Despository to leave work immediately folowing the shooting
h) In killing Officer Tippet displayed behaviour that was entirely consistent with being an assassin.
i) Was not seen with anyone immediately before or after the shooting.

That's it. There is nothing - absolutely NOTHING - that makes it impossible (or even improbable) that LHO acted alone. Hell, if the Powers That Be wanted Kennedy gone, it would have been a far easier to ruin his career by leaking details of his philandering, thereby squashing any re-election hopes in 64, and denying him the status of martyr.

All this talk about conspiracy is basically due to two factors:
a) A refusal to believe that someone as insignificant as a hateful, moronic, wife beating little psychopath like Oswald could kill a President and alter the course of US history;
b) conflicting responses from the witnesses there, who understandably in all the confusion, fear and chaos during and immediately after the shooting (and the echoing acoustics of the Plaza buildings) naturally gave conflicting reports about the number and direction of the shots (Yet STILL, the majority of witnesses reported three shots emanating from the Book Depository window).

You forgot a few; let me help.
Oswald:
a) Is known to have owned such a rifle, which he bought by mail order. Yes, the picture of him holding it was determined to be real. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/photos.txt
b) Is known to have moved his rifle to the School Book Depository that day. Marina's friend (sorry, forget her name) checked the place where Lee had hidden his rifle, and it was gone. The man with whom he rode to work (don't know his name either) asked what was in the package, Lee said curtain rods.
c) Your item c above is the only one of these I've seen disputed. Marina said Lee loved Kennedy and she couldn't see him against him, but--she said this many years later after being brainwashed by conspiracy theorists. At the time she believed Lee guilty. She is now raising her children and grandchildren to believe he was not--she even authorized him to be exhumed to check that the body in his grave really was his! I feel sorry for her...if you hear enough wacko theories for long enough, it can warp your mind! :dizzy:
d) I think I said earlier that someone (don't know their name either) had remarked on Lee's expert marksmanship--that he continued shooting in a strong wind after others gave up, and continued to hit the target.
e) Whether the three shots could have been made with that rifle has been tested again and again ad nauseum. Yes, entirely possible!
f) Whether the gun was actually in the School Book Depository Window. Well, journalist Robert MacNeil, one of the few still living from that day, said he actually saw the gun being withdrawn from the window and would have taken a picture except he had just used the last shot on his camera. Wanna call him a liar? :grineyes: *
g) Was the magic bullet really magic? In a word...yeah. It would not have had to zigzag if Kennedy and Connelly were lined up just slightly different than the way diagrams originally showed them. And, the bullet which was recovered was not in pristine condition--it's been shown that it could have hit everything it is said to have and been in the slightly damaged condition it was.
h) Ballistics tests showed all the bullets which were recovered (unless they're hiding any) came from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle, which was covered with his palm and fingerprints and was in the sixth floor of the building in which he worked to which he had transported the weapon earlier.
i) Oswald was absolutely physically capable of traveling from the SBD to the other places in the necessary amount of time. Some channel (Discovery, I think) on some anniversary (40th, I think) had a guy of the same age, size, and physical condition reenact all this and the guy wasn't even out of breath.
j) If they are hiding "extra" bullets, that would still have to account for why people who were right there and had no reason to lie, such as Nellie Connelly and Clint Hill, said there were only three shots.

About leaking details of Kennedy's philandering to spoil his reelection, a story about his involvement with a German spy was already breaking at the time, but was buried along with him. If others had been behind it, the only reason they'd equip Oswald with such a lousy gun is to make him look like some lone loony loser...and risk him not hitting their target. Not likely.

Besides all you mentioned above...the murder of the policeman being the most incriminating...Oswald's own brother believed him guilty, he did not at all know why. Only his mother, and, much later, his wife, did not believe it.

This is why it bothers me, SERIOUSLY BOTHERS ME AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMEONE REALLY, TRULY EXPLAIN IT--I AM WAITING-- :cuss:
Most of the autopsy photographs have been suppressed or lost--WHY, if they identified the killer and there was nothing to hide?
The car was immediately sealed off by Secret Service and cleaned before any inspection could be made. No one was allowed to look at it or photograph it, so no telling which direction blood spattered, etc. AGAIN, WHY?
Physical evidence, the most important being the brain, just disappeared, right out of the National Archives! ohno: WHY? The only "good" reason would be if Bobby Kennedy took it out of family loyalty. This would indicate that, at least in 1965, Bobby believed the case solved. If anyone else took it, it was to hide evidence, plain and simple!

Worst thing, to me, is:
Some of the few surviving autopsy photographs DO NOT MATCH THE OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS OR THE FILM. JUST LOOK AT THEM! The film clearly shows Kennedy being hit in the right side of the head, in front of the ear. Some of the Parkland Staff said they saw such a wound, some didn't, some said he seemed to have been hit from the front, particularly the neck shot. Some seem to have changed their original stories after being pressured. WHY?
A couple of autopsy photographs show the same wound the Zapruder film would indicate, a hole in the right side of the head with little to no damage to the back and top of the head. Others show massive damage to the top and back of the head--they don't match at all and cannot be reconciled! This would indicate that either the film, at least some photographs, or the wounds were tampered with. I tend to go with the wounds, as the Parkland doctor said the neck wound was not at all what he saw, after he worked on it! Now, if Kennedy was absolutely beyond help, why alter the wound, except to conceal that it was possibly made from the front? WHY alter the head wounds? WHY, WHY, WHY??? :mad:

Apparently Kennedy was hit by two shots from two different directions. http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/news/doctors-story-rivets-jfk-conference/ Later, the neck wound was altered and the autopsy photographs concealed for many years so Parkland staff wouldn't see them and blow the case open. Oswald would appear to be one of the shooters and the other has never been identified, nor does it seem to be known whether they were working together.

These things just don't add up. Other than that, I'd tend to believe that Oswald was solely responsible.

:rip: 51 years.

*CORRECTION: Robert MacNeil spoke to a little black boy, who has never been found, who saw a man with a gun in the window, and probably ran into Oswald as he left the building immediately following the shooting. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3476061/ns/msnbc-jfk_the_day_that_changed_america/t/covering-jfk-assassination/#.VHLzACgZz-A

The report Robert MacNeil filed the instant he could find a phone: * "Shots were fired as President Kennedy's motorcade passed through downtown Dallas. People screamed and lay down on the grass as three shots rang out. Police chased an unknown gunman up a grassy hill. It is not known if the shots were directed at the President. Repeat. It is not known if the shots were directed at the President. This is Robert MacNeil, NBC News in Dallas."

Almost twenty years later MacNeil made the following comment concerning his initial impressions, "You follow your instincts and mine led me up the grassy knoll. It is one of the personal reasons I have for paying serious attention to those who claim there were shots from there as well as from the Book Depository."

It was Bob Jackson, who captured the iconic image of Oswald being shot by Ruby, who saw the rifle in the window, indicating someone was holding it there--it wasn't just left in the building to frame Oswald! http://www.dallasartnews.com/2010/09/photographer-bob-jackson-and-detective-james-leavelle-at-the-sixth-floor-museum/
Bob Jackson's still photograph is by far the most dramatic image of Ruby shooting Oswald. In the video, Ruby steps between the video camera and Oswald so his back mostly blocks the actual shooting.

*Actually, I wrote the word "phone" there, but because I followed it with a colon (:), the board put in that smily and since it looks kind of cool, I'm leaving it. Just so you know, I was not deliberately making fun of Robert MacNeil or whatever state he may have been in when he filed the report.

kane7474

11-22-2014, 06:41 PM

[EDIT= Snipped for an unduly snarky and unpleasant comment, which, on reflection I shouldn't have made - apologies to anyone who read it]

No, which - per Occam's Razor - invalidates the need for a conspiracy.

Oswald :
a) Was violent (an inveterate wife beater) and mentally unstable
b) Had previously made an attempt on the life of Edwin Walker (by sniper shooting!)
c) Detested Kennedy
d) Had access to firearms and experience in using them
e)Was able to easily access a prime vantage point to fire at the President by dent of his employment
f) Was presented with a prime target ( forget this nonsense about a "miracle shot" - anyone who has been to Dealy Plaza knows how small it is and how anyone with any experience in shooting would have little difficulty in hitting a target the size of Kennedy from the Book Depository Window).
g) Was the only employee of the Book Despository to leave work immediately folowing the shooting
h) In killing Officer Tippet displayed behaviour that was entirely consistent with being an assassin.
i) Was not seen with anyone immediately before or after the shooting.

That's it. There is nothing - absolutely NOTHING - that makes it impossible (or even improbable) that LHO acted alone. Hell, if the Powers That Be wanted Kennedy gone, it would have been a far easier to ruin his career by leaking details of his philandering, thereby squashing any re-election hopes in 64, and denying him the status of martyr.

All this talk about conspiracy is basically due to two factors:
a) A refusal to believe that someone as insignificant as a hateful, moronic, wife beating little psychopath like Oswald could kill a President and alter the course of US history;
b) conflicting responses from the witnesses there, who understandably in all the confusion, fear and chaos during and immediately after the shooting (and the echoing acoustics of the Plaza buildings) naturally gave conflicting reports about the number and direction of the shots (Yet STILL, the majority of witnesses reported three shots emanating from the Book Depository window).
You didn't mention the he defected to Russia in the height of the Cold War and was able to easily come back to the United States with a Russian bride . Just a crazed loner right ? How was he able to travel so much ? He's in New Orleans he's in Mexico he's trying to get into Cuba . Just a poor crazed loner right ? Oswald may well have been the only shooter . But he was following orders . To deny oswalds blatant CIA connections is insane

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-23-2014, 12:35 AM

http://cdnph.upi.com/sv/b/upi/UPI-5681385394814/2013/1/df22590b5d7ef72f7b8e02b9045de296/The-picture-of-the-funeral-JFK-Jr-salutes-his-fathers-casket.jpg

On the November 22 episode of A Prairie Home Companion, Garrison Keillor sang a song about Buffalo, New York, to the tune of "Camelot." I wondered if that was just a coincidence, but later he sang a song titled "JFK" recalling images familiar to anyone who remembers that day or has even studied it. It was a touching remembrance. The show, divided into sections so the song is easy to locate, can be found here: http://prairiehome.publicradio...ten/?date=2014/11/22 (http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/listen/?date=2014/11/22)

I checked the show's archive for last year during the 50th anniversary. On November 23 he rebroadcast an old show and had new shows on November 16 and November 30. The November 16 one was, oddly enough, from Dallas. A link to the complete broadcast can be found here: http://prairiehome.org/shows/november-16-2013/ JFK is mentioned from about the 30-minute to the 33-minute mark, and again before the 40-minute mark, where Keillor interviews a local guest who says Dallas "went from the city that shot Kennedy to the city that shot J. R. when we're not really either," and though it may not be possible for Dallasites to walk through Dealey Plaza without thinking of Kennedy it is perfectly possible to drive through without him crossing their minds.

Interestingly enough, Keillor said that only about one in four Americans remembers that day. My mom and I found this surprising as people are living a lot longer nowadays and you'd think a lot of old people would still be around. I have to count myself among a select group who were around, but too young to remember. I have absolutely no firsthand recollection of a living John F. Kennedy or of the feeling of losing a president. He was a historical figure to me albeit one holding a certain fascination for me from a young age.

Young John had received lessons on executing a proper salute in preparation for a Veteran's Day trip to Arlington National Cemetery just eleven days before the assassination, but his parents were concerned as he kept doing it left-handed.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10357834_10150495609199956_7846863205773087193_n.jpg?oh=ff894f7e774894155b9a1d2f87244c22&oe=54E12386&__gda__=1426950521_b6573a33cc49ba5218ceb617b8372828

He received a refresher from a member of the military on the day of the funeral when he again did it wrong. Other than that, it was completely unrehearsed. At just the right moment, he executed a perfect salute which went down in history.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-24-2014, 02:11 AM

c) Your item c above is the only one of these I've seen disputed. Marina said Lee loved Kennedy and she couldn't see him against him, but--she said this many years later after being brainwashed by conspiracy theorists. At the time she believed Lee guilty. She is now raising her children and grandchildren to believe he was not--she even authorized him to be exhumed to check that the body in his grave really was his! I feel sorry for her...if you hear enough wacko theories for long enough, it can warp your mind! :dizzy:

Seems Marina was far from the only person to make this assertion, and the others who said it spoke much sooner after the original events. http://22november1963.org.uk/why-did-lee-harvey-oswald-kill-president-kennedy

According to this...Oswald's mother was not so far out in saying when he died he was doing great things for the country. http://www.salon.com/2014/11/22/the_real_jfk_mystery_50_years_later_why_the_infamous_murder_must_be_reinvestigated/ Good question why he would put the gun in the School Book Depository building, though--that would be a misleading plant directly helping the assassins pull off the crime. I don't think he's innocent.

i) Oswald was absolutely physically capable of traveling from the SBD to the other places in the necessary amount of time. Some channel (Discovery, I think) on some anniversary (40th, I think) had a guy of the same age, size, and physical condition reenact all this and the guy wasn't even out of breath.

Unless you believe the word of coworkers which had him drinking a soda in the lunchroom shortly after the first shot. In which case...not! :cheers:

h) In killing Officer Tippet displayed behaviour that was entirely consistent with being an assassin.

So...he didn't do THAT, either? :doh: http://rechtiskrom.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/update-on-the-man-who-killed-police-officer-tippit/

Posted on a Conspiracy Discussion board:

First post: I never forget when the "Lee Harvey Oswald" episode of Quantum Leap aired and creator Donald P. Bellisario appeared on TV talking about it. His whole point was, he knew Oswald in the Marines and Oswald was crazy then. Oswald did the prior shooting, at the General, alone. (Obviously he had the gun before--since it was mail order and there just wasn't time to obtain it to have especially for Kennedy's visit to Dallas.) Therefore, there was no conspiracy in JFK's murder. He backed this up by saying that, "In all these years no one has come forward saying this is what happened, here's what I did." I was watching with my mom and uncle. One of them cracked, "Yeah, someone's supposed to tell 'How I Shot the President'!" We all hit the floor at that one! :rofl:

Followup: And...I may end up eating my words on this one. http://jfkmurderjamesfiles.weebly.com/ :( But, Oswald behaved so extremely suspiciously. If he was a U. S. Government agent associating with these shady characters to infiltrate and out them, he knew who was guilty! If he could not entrust such sensitive information to the Dallas Police, why not demand a Federal Investigator to whom he would reveal the real killers before ever being taken from incarceration, out into the open where another conspirator could silence him...forever? owned: Either really DUMB, or he was GUILTY in some incriminating aspect of the crime! :nonono:

Disputations with links to more disputations of the James Files version of events: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/files.htm

Oswald's virtual flowers turned off. What are the odds? http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=781
Interesting and mostly nice notes to his mama: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=dfl&GRid=59563475&
But none for Jack Ruby! http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=911

GeekBoyGreg

11-24-2014, 09:26 PM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-25-2014, 01:10 AM

Why would they? There's no mystery. It was Oswald and he did it on his own. Kennedy was hit with 2 bullets, 1 of which also penetrated Gov. Connelly. There was no "magic bullet". Any evidence to the contrary is purely circumstantial and a means for a lot of people to make money off books and interviews saying the myth that there was a vast conspiracy at work. Sorry, but the simplest explanation tends to be the right one and the only theory that has every held up to the forensic FACTS of the case point to the conclusion that Oswald shot Kennedy (and Connelly) on his own. It was him and him alone.

Jack Ruby was a hero. When he shot Oswald, Jack Ruby created a conspiracy industry which has enriched countless Americans and provided endless hours of entertainment. Not to mention Bob Jackson's photo of it is cool. Why would people leave rude comments on Jack Ruby's findagrave memorial? :rolleyes:

http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Video/__NEW/nn_06_lh_jfk_131109.video-260x195.jpg

http://image2.findagrave.com/photos/2001/222/rubyjack.jpg

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-25-2014, 05:03 AM

Creepy Commercial Conspiracy Coincidence! CBS coverage of JFK assassination with mocking modern conspiracy theory commentary, http://truthstreammedia.com/creepy-first-tv-commercial-shown-after-jfk-assassination/ but the commercial which aired directly following the bulletin is fit for The Twilight Zone! My guess would be whoever was in charge simply aired whatever ad was due to come up next, or reached for whatever first came to hand as they could not on any account go to black (as happened once years later in an amusing little incident when Dan Rather refused to go on camera). Eerie, creepy and ironic to say the very least!

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-25-2014, 06:20 AM

There's no mystery. It was Oswald and he did it on his own.... It was him and him alone.

Wow. You are really in the minority! Check it: http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1860871_1860876_1861003,00.html

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-25-2014, 06:45 AM

http://makeameme.org/media/created/naysayers-naysayers-everywhere.jpg

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Headstamp/

This is fascinating. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ways-kennedys-assassination-changed-presidential-security-forever/story?id=20776254 I was at President Carter's Inaugural parade. He very impressively walked the entire route, and I snapped a wonderful picture of him and family. Strange to say, the limousine in which Kennedy was killed was used for another 13 years and served four more presidents...but always with the top on!

Arnold_OldSchool

11-25-2014, 09:55 AM

mozartpc27

11-25-2014, 01:18 PM

The only thing - and I do mean the only thing - that has ever given me even a moment's pause regarding Oswald's sole involvement is this: as I understand it, the parade route published that morning in the newspaper would have had the motorcade drive straight down Main Street through Dealey Plaza, exiting out towards the highway on the other side. In the event, and for reasons I don't know that we will or ever know, the parade route was changed from its published route to what was actually done: that is, as the motorcade came to Dealey plaza, Kennedy's vehicle made a right on to Houston Street, and then a left on to Elm. Here is an image of the plaza:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Dealey-plaza-annotated.png

This change in the route had the effect of making Oswald's shot exponentially easier: had the original route been followed, Oswald would have had to hit a target moving across his field of vision from his vantage point. With a bolt action single-shot rifle, this would have increased the difficulty of the shot by leaps and bounds, because after every reset of the gun's action, Oswald would have had to re-aim.

Instead, the parade route essentially ran under his location, with Kennedy staying on the same line from Oswald's vantage point, only diminishing away as the motorcade went down Elm. Oswald could look straight down Elm and fire the shots.

The parade route might have been changed for a million reasons, one of them, ironically, being security (if you are worried about an assassin on a route, do you publish it ahead of time and follow it, or publish one thing and do something else?). But whatever reason it was done and whoever ordered it done, it had the effect of making Oswald's shot much easier that day.

Arnold_OldSchool

11-25-2014, 02:36 PM

I think what everyone forgets about Oswald is that he was a trained Marine Sniper. He had the training and ability to do this himself.

All the bullets from the crime scene were from his gun, which he was seen taking to work that day.

Don't forget his attempted assassination of Edwin Walker.

The evidence against Oswald is overwhelming.

In the upcoming weeks I'm going to cover the "2 Oswald" theory, show how the investigation seemingly found at least 3 if not 4 guns in the book depository, provided bullets that were not the same as the ones found at the scene of Tippet's death as evidence, LBJ's mistress all but says he was in on it, LBJ's Hitman Mac Wallace's fingerprint was found in the sniper's nest and much more!

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-25-2014, 08:39 PM

http://culturecrossfire.com/etc/unsolved-mysteries-and-scary-stuff-the-jfk-conspiracy-autopsy-anomalies/#.VHSEFcmmXjI

Part one of my multi-week look at all the questionable happenings surrounding JFK's death. This week focuses on his autopsy and why it may prove that more than one shooter was involved

Your thoughts and theories are welcome!

Not only do the remaining autopsy photos (are the rest lost or just suppressed?) show entirely different wounds than the Zapruder film shows the president receiving--the photographs don't match the film or even each other--but a number of people present heard at least two shots from the grassy knoll. These people include a news reporter (Robert MacNeil) and at least two people in Kennedy's entourage (Kenny O'Donnell and Dave Powers). Plus the fact that Secret Service agent Kellerman failed to move from the front to protect Kennedy from the back, and driver Greer slowed almost to a stop--as if they were afraid they were riding into an ambush, not escaping one from behind! Why is everyone who believes in additional shots dismissed as a crackpot? Some witnesses were intimidated into changing their stories for the Warren Commission, as one said, not to cause additional distress to the family, but agent Kellerman stuck by his story that two bullets could not possibly have caused seven wounds to two men! http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/beliefs.htm

(Learning more by the minute. I always thought Kennedy's last statement was his reply to Mrs. Connelly's remark that he couldn't say Dallas didn't love him. Apparently he also had time to yell, "My God, I am hit!" Jackie had time to say, "What are they doing to you?" but unfortunately didn't shove him down on the seat before that third shot hit.)

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-25-2014, 09:31 PM

In a sinister coincidence, the tune of JFK's campaign song was taken from a musical titled A Hole in the Head. :X) The song was sung by Frank Sinatra, whose mob ties are well-known, and the mob was one of many agencies blamed for Kennedy's assassination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHRTCVwSKMs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S94Bh3Qez9o

isotope

11-25-2014, 11:28 PM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-26-2014, 01:05 AM

Wikipedia reports that the Dallas Morning News and the Dallas Times Herald both reported the route as turning off Main onto Elm i.e. passing directly under the Book Depository

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dmntue.gif

Oswald acted alone. There is conspiracy, conjecture, theorising and postulating as to the contrary, but no actual evidence.

As far as the grassy knoll...yes, two (or maybe more) shots could have come from there (if fired at the same time so other witnesses only heard a total of three), but as the late lamented Vaughan Meader used to say when imitating Kennedy, "Let me say this about that":

Someone must have seen and/or heard shots coming from the School Book Depository! Other than the two people I mentioned in earlier posts, I do not know who, but the police very quickly knew to ask which, if any, employees might be missing from the building (concluding, correctly, that no one would walk unnoticed into a strange building where they did not work, carrying a rifle.) :idea: A search was quickly made, and Oswald was found to be the only one missing. The officer who was shot soon afterwards was in no condition to give a description of his assailant, but witnesses saw and described him. Oswald also ditched his jacket between the scene of shooting the officer and the theater where the police apprehended him, and they found where he hid the jacket--it was between those two places. There were a lot of screwups in this case but it looks as if Dallas law enforcement acted very quickly and effectively in apprehending the probable assassin. (However, they did a real piece of crap job in moving him a few days later. :sarah: )

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-26-2014, 01:19 AM

About the shooting, you can believe what you want to--here's the deal about the brain.

Whatever happened is bad, but only three things are possible. The thing is, 1) Robert F. Kennedy was the ONLY person with access who had ANY motive to take the brain for noble reasons. 2) It was plain carelessness. Almost impossible! How do you lose something so important stored under controlled conditions? 3) Someone other than RFK took it, meaning there was a conspiracy and coverup coming from some very high places! Plain and simple, it takes away the luxury of any possible belief otherwise!

You know...at first I thought only three things to be possible. The thing is, 1) Robert F. Kennedy was the ONLY person with access who had ANY motive to take the brain for noble reasons. 2) It was plain carelessness. Almost impossible! How do you lose something so important stored under controlled conditions? 3) Someone other than RFK took it, meaning there was a conspiracy and coverup coming from some very high places! Plain and simple, it takes away the luxury of any possible belief otherwise!

Now, you know what, I take it back! At least four things are possible.

I based my statement that RFK would take his brother's brain only for noble and upstanding reasons on the assumption that RFK must (at least in 1965) have completely accepted the Warren Commission's account of the president's death...why else abscond with the most valuable piece of evidence in the case? Well, according to his own son, he considered the report "a shoddy piece of craftsmanship." http://www.salon.com/2013/01/14/robert_f_kennedy_jfk_conspiracy_theorist/

Did the following on November 20 but forgot to post it here:

Okey-dokey, I found the reburial pictures online and it seems that the "Bobby put it in the casket" story doesn't hold up at all. But if one of you guys has the brain in your closet or anything, the Bradster will give you $10,000.00!

Spent a lot of time on the Kennedy brothers alleged brain reburial story Monday. Some stories say "a curious wooden box" can be seen near one or both Kennedy brothers in the reinterment pictures while others describe a "black, locker-type box." Both boxes are said to be on the ground, which would seem rather disrespectful if they really contained human remains!

Regarding Catholic bodies having to be intact, I have attended five Catholic funeral services, at least three of which were cremations. This is also true of JFK Jr. At the actual burial I attended, the box with the remains was placed on the ground but there was at least an artificial turf rug under it--it wasn't just plonked down on the dirt the way this "box" at Arlington is said to have been!

Okey-dokey, this guy posts a photo he says proves that the "strange wooden box" was nothing more than protection to cover a small plant so no one would step on it. There were never any brains in it. (It won't let me post the link to the forum where he says that, but here is the link to the photo itself which shows the box being lifted off the plant.)

http://the-puzzle-palace.com/PX67-80-42A.jpg

There are various, mostly bad-quality black-and-white, photos of the reinterment ceremony several places online. Here are the only color ones I've found, showing Bobby and Teddy with no "box" that I can see. It does show that JFK was not moved very far! http://cc157.blogspot.com/2011/12/jfk-exhumation.html

Here is a forum with the most number of the poor-quality b & w images that I can find on one page. http://forum.assassinationofjfk.net/index.php/topic/691-what-happened-to-jfks-brain-and-body/ I do see what is almost certainly the wooden box in the photographs labeled 64 and 24, but nothing that resembles any other small box at all! Anyone with sharper eyes, have a look!

GeekBoyGreg

11-26-2014, 12:45 PM

Wow. You are really in the minority! Check it: http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1860871_1860876_1861003,00.html

What does it matter if I'm in the minority? It doesn't mean I'm wrong.

GeekBoyGreg

11-26-2014, 12:46 PM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-27-2014, 02:11 AM

Patsy Ramsey, being just short of seven years old at the time, gets off the hook, but if she'd been a day over nine I would add her to the suspects list in a heartbeat! John Ramsey was just short of twenty years old and could well have done it. :wink2:

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-28-2014, 02:00 AM

Check out the report of a select government committee which spent years on this. http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/ Where do these notions come from, that conspiracy theories are dreamed up by crackpots in basements who have nothing better to do? Why waste all this government time, money, and effort--to come up with such conclusions?

MegtheEgg86

11-28-2014, 10:03 AM

Count me as part of the apparent minority that thinks Oswald acted alone.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-29-2014, 03:31 AM

Count me as part of the apparent minority that thinks Oswald acted alone.

Apparent according to some poll which didn't ask either of us. :rolleyes:

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-29-2014, 07:10 AM

C. I. A. lied about John F. Kennedy's assassination, indicating they had something to hide. Period. End of story. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/biographies/oswald/interview-g-robert-blakey/

MegtheEgg86

11-29-2014, 11:17 AM

Apparent according to some poll which didn't ask either of us. :rolleyes:

I was unaware this was so personal for you.

ETA: I'm also pretty sure this is the first time I've ever 100% agreed with Awsi Dooger on ANY case.

TheCars1986

11-29-2014, 11:25 AM

The evidence is overwhelming in this case. Oswald acted alone.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-29-2014, 07:05 PM

I was unaware this was so personal for you.

I never met him, his wife, or their children, nor am I a relative or close friend--it just irks me to see people be willing participants in having the wool pulled over their eyes.

ETA: I'm also pretty sure this is the first time I've ever 100% agreed with Awsi Dooger on ANY case.

:rotflmao:

MegtheEgg86

11-29-2014, 08:30 PM

I never met him, his wife, or their children, nor am I a relative or close friend--it just irks me to see people be willing participants in having the wool pulled over their eyes.

Ok. I disagree strongly that any party here is having the wool pulled over their eyes in strongest sense of the word, but I respect your right to your own conclusions.

:rotflmao:

I thought it was pretty funny, too.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-29-2014, 10:40 PM

The sad thing is...so many conspiracy theories have been around for so long, people would not believe the simple truth, if it were simple. Also, there are so many silly conspiracy theories now, people would not believe any real ones without a lot of proof, if then. They wouldn't believe the truth either way. I believe the truth is there was a real one, but not as complicated and ridiculous as a lot of what's out there. Jack Ruby deserved some sort of medal :rolleyes: for boosting the U. S. economy by shooting Oswald :X) and giving a soapbox to umpteen million nuts--he created a great American industry! :grineyes: (Yes, there are guys set up on the sidewalk in Dealey Plaza to spout these stories!) ohno:

Check this one: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/jfk50/reflect/20131123-swift-merciless-transition-elevated-lyndon-johnson-of-texas-to-the-presidency.ece

"In seconds, carnage erupted in the presidential limousine as the president and Connally were hit by gunfire. Looking at the vice president’s car, Kivett saw the blur of Youngblood’s dark suit as he spun left, grabbed Johnson’s lapels and flung him to the floorboard screaming, “Get down! Get down!” Youngblood lunged at Lady Bird and Yarborough as he climbed over the seat and covered the body of the vice president."

WELL, ****!!! :mad: That's a hell of a lot more than anyone did for Kennedy! Notice in the film, the agent in the front seat did not jump over the back of the seat to cover Kennedy after the first two shots--Clint Hill had to literally jump out of another car and run to do that--by which time it was too late. Kennedy's own wife did not push or pull him down to stop his being a target (he couldn't duck himself due to his back brace). They had only seconds, but still.... The agent driving slowed down to look at the worst possible moment, allowing a perfect hit on that third shot--just the worst possible screwups overall--what later came to be known as "a perfect storm."

Many conspiracy theories do not mesh. If several of them were true, there had to be more than one conspiracy going around between more than one group of conspirators at the same time. If Johnson was in on it, then he was obviously not a target. I don't know why Yarborough didn't want to get in the car with Lyndon, other than that I wouldn't relish riding with him either, puke: but that doesn't prove Yarborough knew anything about a possible plot, in fact, that in itself doesn't even prove there was a plot! If there was, too bad Kennedy didn't smell a rat :( like, "Why don't you want to ride with Lyndon? Is it because you know someone plans to shoot us all?" :devil: It would be funny (not funny funny, but funny strange) if Yarborough didn't want to get in the car because he was in on a plot to assassinate both Kennedy and Johnson, then they wouldn't shoot at *that* car because he was in it, so he ended up saving Lyndon's life!!! :rofl:

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-30-2014, 03:38 AM

Newsmax's reairing of JFK Remembered: 50 Years Later not only had Henry Repeating Rifles as a sponsor, but at least twice jumped straight from footage of Kennedy to the rifle commercial! :eek: They even did this immediately following a clip of one of his most inspirational speeches! :( (By the way, his error in this famous 1963 speech near the Berlin Wall was not nearly the blunder legend would have it. Kennedy had meant to say, "Ich bin Berliner" (I am a Berliner). Since nationalities in German are not preceded by articles, Kennedy actually said, "Ich bin ein Berliner" (I am one with the people of Berlin). The urban legend that it translates into "I am a jelly donut" is a myth, since the pastry is known in Germany as "pfannkuchen" (pan cake). To see that part, start around the 7:00 mark here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdXXkppRLEc ) Not only were Henry Rifles a sponsor, but so was the National Rifle Association! ohno: Guys, that was tacky! ticked: If you had to air these commercials at all, you couldn't at least stick them in between others? :mumble:

isotope

11-30-2014, 11:36 PM

Newsmax's reairing of JFK Remembered: 50 Years Later not only had Henry Repeating Rifles as a sponsor, but at least twice jumped straight from footage of Kennedy to the rifle commercial!

That's nothing, Harold Holt, the Australian Prime Minister who drowned while out for a swim in the ocean, had a public swimming pool named in his memory!! :confused: :rolleyes2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Holt_Memorial_Swimming_Centre

EDIT: Its also worth noting that Holt's drowning disappearance attracted a large number of bizarre theories (the most popular being that he'd been abducted by Chinese spies in minature submarines! :eek: :confused:) so its not only JFK's assassination that inspires these types of stories!

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-01-2014, 12:12 AM

That's nothing, Harold Holt, the Australian Prime Minister who drowned while out for a swim in the ocean, had a public swimming pool named in his memory!! :confused: :rolleyes2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Holt_Memorial_Swimming_Centre

EDIT: Its also worth noting that Holt's drowning disappearance attracted a large number of bizarre theories (the most popular being that he'd been abducted by Chinese spies in minature submarines! :eek: :confused:) so its not only JFK's assassination that inspires these types of stories!

:eek3:

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-01-2014, 01:10 AM

In all seriousness, I prefer the theory in which Lyndon Johnson was involved. CIA station chief and Watergate burglar E. Howard Hunt admitted on his deathbed that he attended a meeting prior to November 22, 1963 at least discussing, if not planning, the assassination. Involved in the plot were CIA Director of Covert Operations in the Western Hemosphere, David Atlee Phillips, and CIA officials Cord Meyer and William King Harvey.

Although I did not make a detailed study of this, I did hear about it, and previously heard that many other Watergate participants were in Dallas that day (some proven, others suspected). There is also film of Nixon joking with an interviewer about LBJ having it done--trying to cast suspicion off himself, perhaps? :devil: I know they aren't the most honest people, but why would Hunt tell such a lie? :confused:

In his own words (on film), John Connally described turning around to look over his right shoulder after Kennedy was hit in the throat (frontal shot), and was hit by a separate bullet as he turned to face forward. Both he and his wife Nellie insisted to their dying days that Connally was hit by a separate bullet than CE 399. Conclusion: end of magic bullet theory! :eek:

For the "official" 50th anniversary observance in Dallas, no one espousing conspiracy theories was invited to the ceremony, despite the fact that the percentage of the population who believe Oswald did not act alone ranges from 70%-90%--depending on which poll and when it was taken--including people who were there!!! The only person who rode in the car (not counting the secret service agent who jumped on after the fatal "third" shot) still alive on the 40th anniversary was Mrs. Connally. She did maintain there were only three shots--according to what she witnessed. The secret service agent in the front seat insisted, would not let himself be bullied down by the Warren Commission, that when the president had four wounds, the governor three, and one of the "three" shots missed, there had to be more than two bullets, period! The only conclusion must be that Kennedy was hit by more than one round at the same time, so that only three shots were heard, total. Now, if at least two or three people who were in the bloody car stated this, you wonder if they would have been invited to the official observance! By the 50th anniversary, everyone who had started out in that car was gone, but the only other person wounded besides Kennedy and Connally was not invited, due in no small part to the allegations made in his book on the case. http://jtague.com/ As it was, the conspiracy "nuts" had to have their own separate observance. :(

It was the Alex Jones video interview with James Tague where I heard of him being "banned" from the ceremony, but then I found the website about Tague's book http://jtague.com/ and an article stating conspiracy theorists had their own gathering. I can't find that article in my history or by Googling, so I just posted the item about the book and didn't bother with the video interview or any of the print interviews. Tague is far from the first and won't be the last to blame Johnson. Here is one who must be taken seriously, and not simply dismissed: http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/poll/why-roger-stones-jfk-book-cant-be-dismissed/

The first time I ever heard the "Johnson did it" story was at home, sometime between 1984 and 1997 (sorry, can't be more specific). My parents were discussing a review they'd read of a book blaming Johnson, describing how while everyone else was distracted out of their minds, old Lyndy sat and ate his chicken soup calm as you please. I thought, "Oh, pshaw!" and thought my mom would say the same, but she surprised me by saying, "Well, that makes sense. Johnson had the most to gain." I didn't automatically believe it but was impressed that she seriously considered it.

I remember Johnson's funeral well. I was home from school recovering from the mumps and my dad, obviously no Johnson fan, came home for lunch. He watched the casket being carried and said to my mom, "Now, wouldn't it be a fine thing if they dropped it." Then he turned around to the TV and yelled, "Come on, Lyndy, kick off the lid and yell at 'em!" :happyface

Yes, some of the stories are silly. Personally I kinda hope Johnson was guilty because some of my favorite people hated him and so do I. :D

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-01-2014, 10:03 PM

When he finally decided to speak out at the beginning of the 50th anniversary year, Robert Kennedy Jr. leaned more towards mob than political/CIA connections: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/12/16474762-rfk-jr-very-convincing-evidence-that-jfk-wasnt-killed-by-lone-gunman?lite I had no idea Robert Sr. ever did any investigation and wonder whether that was a secret until this interview?

Arnold_OldSchool

12-02-2014, 12:43 PM

http://culturecrossfire.com/etc/unsolved-mysteries-and-scary-stuff-the-jfk-assassination-the-two-oswald-theory/#.VH28ksmmXjI

Part two of a look into the JFK murder. This time I explore how many shots were really fired and from where, how many guns were found at the crime scene, Oswald's CIA connections, was an Oswald double running around Dallas setting Lee Harvey up?? and more!!!

TracyLynnS

12-02-2014, 10:13 PM

If I were going to go with one of the conspiracy theories, it would definitely be "Johnson did it".

This case never interested me that much (I'm not much interested in the Kennedys or assassinations) so I just took the official version as fact. It was a few years ago, when I was reading something very mundane and textbook-like, about the case that I realized Johnson insisted on being sworn in immediately, within just 2 or 3 hours, Jackie still stunned from the whole event standing by him on air force one, and it hit me as being very odd behavior on his part.

By law, he was already the acting president. There was no need for him to be sworn in immediately. Everything could have gone forward in the appropriate manner, get everyone back to DC, hold the state funeral, observe a time of mourning etc, then he could have an official and proper swearing in ceremony.

His explanation of doing it so quickly to present solid leadership to Americans at such a terrible time is a flimsy excuse and that rushed job, having to get it done in Texas (how convenient for him, since he was a Texan), using JFK's prayer book because a bible wasn't available, and all while the body was still warm, looks a bit more than iffy, imo.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-03-2014, 02:18 AM

...Oswald's CIA connections, was an Oswald double running around Dallas setting Lee Harvey up?? and more!!!

He'd be an easy guy to set up if so. His attempt on the life of General Walker would have gotten people's attention--in fact, if they knew he did this and that he worked in a building the president would pass right by, why not have him detained until the president passed? :confused:

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-03-2014, 02:21 AM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-03-2014, 07:16 PM

He'd be an easy guy to set up if so. His attempt on the life of General Walker would have gotten people's attention--in fact, if they knew he did this and that he worked in a building the president would pass right by, why not have him detained until the president passed? :confused:

Sorry, that didn't come out right. Obviously the Walker attempt wasn't pinned on Oswald until after the Kennedy assassination, and then only by intensely grilling his wife, who, if she told authorities the truth at the time and didn't just speak out of intimidation, seems to be the only one who knew about it. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=73829

What I should have more properly said is, if Oswald were recruited, whoever did it should have known enough to connect him to the attempt on Walker...which was unsuccessful, so would that make recruiters even want him? If he really did shoot at Walker, and his wife or anyone else knew it, too bad they did not come forward so he could have been jailed for attempted murder at the time of Kennedy's visit. But then, if the Kennedy assassination was a conspiracy, they'd have just gotten someone else.

Or, the assassination was not a conspiracy, just an incredible coincidence in which Oswald shot at JFK at the same time someone else did. I tend to believe Oswald hit him but it was not his shot which killed him.

Posted on LBJ's IMDb message board in response to accusations that he killed JFK: Lyndon Johnson absolutely did not shoot John F. Kennedy--he was too busy cowering on the floor of the car following. Now, as to either arranging for someone else to shoot him, or being in league with others to do so, I believe more every day...just wish it could be proven while people who can remember it are still living!

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-08-2014, 07:35 AM

Which JFK assassination theory is sillier, that Jackie did it/had it done or this one:

Walt Disney killed JFK http://wikibomb.wordpress.com/2010/07/06/walt-disney-kennedy-assassin/ because Kennedy did not like Savage Sam as well as Old Yeller! :eek: So, basically, he should have shot everyone who saw both films! :rolleyes: And, Disney did not approach LBJ or anyone in 1967, being as Disney died in 1966! :lol:

Oh, dear, I'll be up all night trying to decide! :crazy:

Arnold_OldSchool

12-09-2014, 10:39 AM

http://culturecrossfire.com/etc/unsolved-mysteries-and-scary-stuff-jfk-zapruder-and-the-tramp-whom-shot-him/#.VIcCiMmmXjI

Part 3...This time the Zapruder film's validity is covered, the Umbrella Man is revealed, Why JD Tippet wasn't killed by Oswald, Oswald's behavior in custody, and we finish with the identity of the Three Tramps-one of who admitted to executing the President.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-10-2014, 01:02 AM

Top Ten Stupidest President Kennedy Assassination Theories:

10. Oliver Stone did it knowing the subject would one day make a great movie. (His alibi was being in school halfway across the country—but he sure gained enough from it!)

9. The “umbrella man” theory: Louie Steven Witt appears in the Zapruder film, seemingly inexplicably raising a black umbrella on a sunny day. He was accused of using this to either signal marksmen, or to fire a poison dart concealed within the umbrella. Appearing before the House Select Committee on Assassinations, Witt, who still had the original umbrella and brought it as an exhibit, creating a light moment in the proceedings, stated that he actually had the umbrella to taunt JFK over the Kennedy family’s World War II Nazi ties.

8. a) The driver, William Greer, was in on it and slowed down to allow the gunman better aim. b) The driver himself turned and fired a gun which neither anyone else in the car, anyone watching on both sides of the road, or most of the millions who eventually saw the films by Abraham Zapruder and Orville Nix ever noticed.

7. James Files fired the final shot from the Grassy Knoll. (Update to the "Just when you think you've heard them all" file: apparently now some poor sucker has confessed! http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Newsmax-TV-I-Killed-JFK/2014/11/13/id/607211/ )

6. Walt Disney had it done because he was angry that Kennedy liked Old Yeller better than Savage Sam. http://wikibomb.wordpress.com/2010/07/06/walt-disney-kennedy-assassin/

5. Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

4. Kennedy's wife Jackie had it done because she was angry about fill in the blank.

3. Every time I look this up, I hear a new one. Someone proposed that Scanners made Kennedy's head explode (as in the 1981 movie). http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1018315-scanners/ If Jackie was one, I guess it could have been her.

2. Kennedy was not killed. At least one version has him removed from office while one has him surviving incapacitated on Aristotle Onassis’s private island.

1. Suicide.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-11-2014, 03:12 AM

There seem to have been three copies made of the Zapruder film, and the original was not altered. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/21/zapruder-film-analysis-still-disputed/3672031/ This was very enlightening. Previously all I knew was that on becoming president Bill Clinton wanted to get to the bottom of this (as well he might--why so many classified documents if the crime was the work of a lone gunman?--) but no idea of what, if anything, they may have uncovered.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-21-2014, 12:26 AM

Brad Meltzer, the host of Lost History, has an FBI agent checking out all leads viewers submit, who says a witness made a claim about JFK's brain, to which I replied:

"Regarding JFK's brain, if a witness claims to have seen it placed in his grave at Arlington National Cemetery, either the witness is lying or the cemetery's superintendent John Metzler was when he said nothing other than the vault containing Kennedy's body was placed in there."

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-27-2014, 06:40 AM

Interesting conspiracy debunking article says JFK's supposed threat to destroy the CIA was unsubstantiated and they got along well. http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/jfk-conspiracy-theories-at-50-how-the-skeptics-got-it-wrong-and-why-it-matters/

Personally I don't know whether Oswald acted alone but his involvement in some way can hardly be doubted.

James T

12-27-2014, 08:25 AM

Surprised aliens did it was never a conspiracy theory. 30 years later it likely would have been.

plmkr88

12-27-2014, 03:17 PM

LHO acted alone. Were there people happy JFK got murdered? YES without a doubt. But they did not actively participate in the planning and carry out of the murder.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-27-2014, 08:08 PM

Surprised aliens did it was never a conspiracy theory. 30 years later it likely would have been.

Sorry, the following is the best I can do on a space aliens connection.

Kennedy was not necessarily killed by aliens directly, but possibly by someone not wishing the truth about their existence revealed. The timing of his being killed 10 days after making a memo demanding release of this information is an odd coincidence to say the least. https://deusnexus.wordpress.com/2013/11/20/leaked-memo-jfk-killed/ Not saying it was a conspiracy, or if so whether Oswald was in on it or being used by those who were, just, again, that it worked out luckily for people who wanted Kennedy dead and might have killed him anyway had Oswald not acted first. Aliens themselves are participating in the coverup along with government officials.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-28-2014, 12:25 AM

The massive and continuing screwups and coverups are possibly the most troubling aspect of the whole sad and sorry case which made up the John F. Kennedy assassination, and why I firmly side with the 70%-90% of people who don't fully accept the Warren Commission's crummy excuse for a report or swallow the official story (which you'll notice members of the Kennedy family themselves did not accept--John Jr. had a chance to dismiss conspiracy theorists when asked, and his answer suggested nothing of the kind. In explaining why he chose not to pursue the subject, his exact words were, "whatever they decide or whatever they find is not going to change the one fundamental fact in my life, which is that it won't bring him back." Gee, where does it say, "The Warren Commission in their all-seeing, all-knowing wisdom explained everything. All conspiracy theorists are crackpots who should get a life"? Don't see it)! If this was a simple, straightforward, open-and-shut case of a lone nut with a gun, why all the unbelievable screwups (a few, maybe--but so many? Particularly botching the autopsy and then losing half of what material there was from it? Including the most valuable and necessary part?), the lies, the coverups, the reams and reams of documents still suppressed?

According to some, the official story is merely hard to accept because people look at the insignificance of Oswald on the one hand, the significance of Kennedy on the other, and try to balance it out with all sorts of other factors, but I don't agree. Look at John Lennon, who arguably influenced more people even than JFK. Why are there few to no conspiracy theories surrounding his death? Why few to no conspiracy theories regarding the shooting of President Ronald Reagan only a few months later? Uh, maybe because in those cases it was well-demonstrated to have actually been a lone nut with a gun! Add Presidents Garfield and McKinley to this category.

The lone nut with a gun theory has been tried and woefully failed in the case of President Kennedy and even in the case of his brother, whose assailant was caught on the spot, gun in hand! (But the lone shooter theory in that case was never made to agree with the evidence regardless of the amount of manipulation tried.) I'm not saying, "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit"...not going so far as to suggest acquitting Oswald, just saying a whole lot is going on here besides what the official story suggests.

James T

12-28-2014, 11:55 AM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-28-2014, 01:04 PM

Of course Oswald denied it, although the evidence against him was pretty damning and has never been disproven...probably because he did it. In the other cases (Robert F. Kennedy, John Lennon, Ronald Reagan), the shooters didn't exactly have the option of trying to deny it as they were standing right there holding the gun and everyone saw them do it--in two of these three cases cameras were on the scene. Also Pope John Paul II, who I left out of my list above. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/27/us-pope-johnpaul-agca-idUSKBN0K50F720141227

Necco

12-28-2014, 01:21 PM

Well the Kennedy family likely wouldn't want to believe their superhuman relative could be taken out by one insignificant person & of course neither would the general public who had seen him elevated to deity status by the media. Most murders are carried out by simpletons & insignificant people & that is why most of them get caught-because they leave evidence behind/shout their mouth off about it or whatever.

The Kennedy Family was well aware by the time JFK was assassinated that they were mortal. John was predeceased by two of his siblings and another sibling had been institutionalized for life at the time of his death.
-Joseph P Kennedy, Jr, a navy pilot was killed in 1944 when what was essentially a flying bomb that he was supposed to activate and parachute out of exploded prematurely over Suffolk, England.
-Kathleen "Kick" Cavendish nee Kennedy, first lost her husband to a WWII sniper and then died herself a few years later in 1948 in a plane crash in France.
-Rosemary Kennedy underwent a prefrontal lobotomy in 1941 and went from a woman who, while less book smart than the rest of the Kennedy kids, was a functional adult albeit with mood issues to someone with the intelligence and motor skills of a two year old.

In addition to this, JFK and Jackie had a daughter, Arabella, who was born sleeping (still born) and lost two day old Patrick a few months before JFK's assassination. Jackie also lost a pregnancy in 1955.

JFK had also had several brushes with death prior to his assassination. The PT boat he was on in WWII was cut in half and he lost several crew members and the survivors spent 6 days living on coconuts and hiding from the enemy. He was hospitalized for long periods of time both before and after the war for various health issues.

The Kennedys knew they were mortal. JFK only ran for president because Joseph died. It had been Joseph who was being groomed to be president by Joseph Kennedy, Sr, not John. And it was Joseph Kennedy, Sr who was partially paralyzed and left largely unable to speak in 1961, not entirely unlike the daughter he had lobotomized so she didn't embarrass the family.

The were raised to meet impossible standards and some of them achieved greatness while others were treated extremely unfairly. But none of them ever doubted they were mortal.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-28-2014, 01:50 PM

Yes, Jack Kennedy had the last rites administered several times.

Necco

12-28-2014, 02:41 PM

Yes, Jack Kennedy had the last rites administered several times.

yep, three times before he was President.
http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-john-f-kennedy

LooksLikeCRicci

12-29-2014, 12:10 AM

Guys, come on. The answer here is obvious.

Poltergeists. Boom. *drops microphone*

MissFit29

12-29-2014, 12:47 AM

Regarding the autopsy photographs, I think the published ones were actually an artist's rendering and not actual photographs....I could swear I heard that on a documentary this year.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

12-29-2014, 05:44 AM

Guys, come on. The answer here is obvious.

Poltergeists. Boom. *drops microphone*

:singer: ohno: :faint:

LilMissKryssy

03-03-2015, 10:18 AM

You are correct. They weren't the actual photos.

What most people don't know if that MLK Jr's family won a civil lawsuit in 1999 against our government for wrongful death. Its pretty damning what came out. You don't need a massive conspiracy to get away with it. I mean, his family won a civil lawsuit for wrongful death and yet no media outlet really has really reported on it or investigated the story? Yet when the Goldmans won their civil lawsuit for wrongful death against OJ simpson, the media reported on that for months on end.

The intelligence community were responsible (not every single person but a certain group) and key people in our government. You don't need a massive conspiracy. People in our government and police follow orders especially if they say "national security" ect. People don't question those orders immediately. Evidence is "lost", mishandled, gone, you have a patsy who is murdered within hours of arrest, then the man who killed him died in jail before his own trial. All the doctors at the hospital reports clearly state he was shot from the front and the back of the head was an exit wound. Its sad that when many have them have spoken out they have to deal with mockery over the years.

I think the fact that this is officially an unsolved homicide with the Dallas PD but yet our government has no interest in solving it speaks volumes. Also, the house assassination Committee came out and stated as its findings "it was probably a conspiracy" yet stopped short of investigating it further. That should raise a few eyebrows. So you stop short at that and leave the assassination of a sitting united states president unsolved?!

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

03-03-2015, 10:32 PM

What gets me is there are still people (a minority, but still) calling conspiracy theorists naive, paranoid, gullible, and stupid, yet BOTH the Warren Commission's AND the House Select Committee's OPPOSITE conclusions are accepted as correct!

Come on...either the dress is blue and black or it ain't! :rolleyes:

tarheelslim

03-06-2015, 01:41 PM

LHO acted alone. Were there people happy JFK got murdered? YES without a doubt. But they did not actively participate in the planning and carry out of the murder.

There was a guy doing a lot of interviews about his book a couple years ago who had gone back over everything from day one, including (I believe) his own research. He concluded that there was a conspiracy and that the conspiracy was to cover up that the intelligence agencies knew more about LHO than they wanted the public to hear about... they destroyed evidence that they tried to keep track of him and that they knew he was potentially dangerous. That was the conspiracy.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

03-11-2015, 12:58 AM

There was a guy doing a lot of interviews about his book a couple years ago who had gone back over everything from day one, including (I believe) his own research. He concluded that there was a conspiracy and that the conspiracy was to cover up that the intelligence agencies knew more about LHO than they wanted the public to hear about... they destroyed evidence that they tried to keep track of him and that they knew he was potentially dangerous. That was the conspiracy.

Is it this one? http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-book-reveals-how-much-fbi-cia-knew-about-oswald-before-kennedy-assassination/

tarheelslim

03-11-2015, 10:22 AM

Is it this one? http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-book-reveals-how-much-fbi-cia-knew-about-oswald-before-kennedy-assassination/

Looks like it! Thanks for digging that up, I didn't try hard enough to find it when I made my post. I find this guy credible and his research compelling.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

03-12-2015, 02:11 AM

Looks like it! Thanks for digging that up, I didn't try hard enough to find it when I made my post. I find this guy credible and his research compelling.

Oswald's wife stated he met for hours with agents who came to the house but did not come in. They talked in a vehicle but she did not know about what. Were they checking him out as dangerous, or recruiting him?

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

04-05-2015, 11:27 PM

Just popped in to say on Thursday I met two people not yet born at the time of the assassination who didn't even know what YEAR it took place! They were astounded when I told them date, city, street, time of day, how many shots were fired in the official story, from where and by whom using what type of weapon, as well as a few theories contradicting the official story. (I did not tell them there were TWO government inquiries reaching TWO different conclusions, BOTH accepted as correct!) I asked if they wanted to know how many people in the car, their names and in what position they sat, but they said nah...they were good. :whatever:

DALLASTEXAN!!

04-09-2015, 08:16 PM

Oswald is the lone wolf. It's hard to believe and many cannot accept it but it happened. just my opinion. there's so much out there though that it is difficult to see through all of it.

biffbronson

05-13-2015, 02:43 AM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

05-14-2015, 02:47 AM

Did you give them rundowns of the James Garfield and William McKinley assassinations while you were at it?

I would have but they barely tolerated hearing the basics regarding Kennedy, about whom I could have gone on much longer.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

09-01-2015, 05:30 AM

Since existing X-Rays of JFK's skull seem to have been lost or altered, how far is science from having some sort of ground-penetrating scan which could see into the casket? Of course it wouldn't reveal exact original condition as he was reconstructed by funeral home staff, but might tell something...? :confused:

elg0rd0

09-05-2015, 08:30 PM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

09-05-2015, 11:55 PM

Right...more to this one than meets the eye.

The Kennedy family never paid for their own investigations, either for the national security reason, because remaining members were afraid of ending up like Jack and Bobby, or both. Yet over the years I believe not one family member ever publicly said, "These conspiracy theories are outlandish and the theorists are nuts who need to get a life!" In fact, several have spoken to the contrary, and I think Kennedy's secretary flat-out believed Johnson was behind it.

As far as national security...there were so many screwups by so many supposedly professional or official people on so many levels, there was a lot of covering up their own errors, but how 50 years later that could still be a national security matter when policies have supposedly greatly changed is a good question!

DALLASTEXAN!!

09-06-2015, 05:42 PM

My biggest problem is how much of the official investigation is still classified under national security laws. What national security would be compromised if a lone gunman shooting from a building at the acting president in a convertible limo?

I'm not making a case that Oswald is innocent or guilty. I'm saying why would the investigation, meaning the subtle details, all be classified? And what national security would be breached? Foreign, domestic, military, federal reserve, Vietnam, Cuba, Castro, organized crime? It still baffles me that a lot of information has been redacted by the archives or in some cases misplaced. Under "national security"
These are some valid questions and the sad thing is gov agencies do have the ability to hide details from the public and generally will if they can get away with it. In a case like this I don't see that. The public ultimately will get information when they push so hard for it. The gov has laws in place with how they release and classify information. Usually they do not change these laws or make exceptions without a lot of legal red tape going down. If it makes sense they probably won't listen because a law is a law and it will not be compromised. Being from Dallas I have heard all the tales. The one that makes the most sense to me is a lone wolf psychopath who may or may not had affiliations with political agencies in or outside of the USA. But when you look at the details he just seemed like a punk that no one took seriously and an idiot that wanted to make a name for himself.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

06-16-2016, 02:25 AM

Conspiracy theories about assassinations seem harmless nonsense next to these nuts who believe the July 7 attacks in Britain, the Sandy Hook school shootings, the Orlando nightclub shooting, and other such scenes of mass carnage are put-ons by actors paid to undermine gun ownership rights or any such absolute garbage. No doubt even lunatic opinions are protected by freedom of speech but perhaps this sort of statement if made seriously should be declared a crime, as is holocaust denial in Germany. You can't just claim anything--there are such things as slander and libel.

That being said, I believe at the very least such a mass of mistakes and screwups occurred during and after John F. Kennedy's assassination as to make it look like a coverup, either of a conspiracy or of people trying to downplay their own blunders. I voted yes that Oswald shot Kennedy, as I believe he owned the gun, brought it to the building, fled the building immediately afterwards having somehow left his finger and palm prints all over the gun, was the only employee found to be missing when a head count was made right after the shooting, and he did kill the police officer with another weapon and resisted arrest. It's been demonstrated that the shooting could have been accomplished by a really expert marksman using Oswald's rifle, and why conspiracists would recruit a nut like Oswald (other than as the perfect fall guy) or equip him with one of the crappiest weapons available to accomplish such a major goal are great questions.

It's been said that JFK and his brother RFK's shootings were connected--that Bobby was going to get to the bottom of who was behind Jack's death and so was killed. Recently it's been said that Aristotle Onassis had hated Bobby for at least 15 years and put up the money to have him killed, that Onassis's own daughter knew the money could be traced to him but wanted to believe it went for something else, and when she died the whole investigation was dropped. RFK's shooting was by more than one gunman whether or not it was a conspiracy or simply more than one armed person in the room out to get him. (It's believed Sirhan went to get him but did not fire the fatal bullet, and a security guard who hated Kennedy took advantage of the situation. Many people in the room were filming or taking stills and some of the images have mysteriously disappeared.) The only person shot in the head who appeared dead at scene was a man named Paul Schrade (despite the movie Bobby, it wasn't Elijah Wood). Paul Schrade is in fact still alive and it's been well demonstrated that the person who shot him cannot also have shot Robert Kennedy--Sirhan Sirhan never got far out of the same position and the shots were fired from completely different positions. Also I believe they found more bullets than that gun held, and Sirhan never reloaded.

TheCars1986

06-16-2016, 08:21 AM

kane7474

06-19-2016, 09:55 AM

Slightly OT, but I have a cousin who believes all of these shootings and attacks are "false flags" perpetuated by the Obama administration to take away guns. And there are a lot of these sick people out there. And that scares the hell out of me.
Well there is absolute proof that paid actors get on tv and pretend to be family members of victims. It just happened again in Orlando. Back to jfk. He was a threat to federal reserve, so was his brother. This is why they were killed. Oswald was working for the CIA as were many people involved with this and that is why you still have certain documents still classified. The Russians exposed years ago that the KGB was on to Oswald as a spy. This isn't a conspiracy theory anymore and anyone would have to be whacky to think Oswald acted alone and was just a crazed nut.

Arnold_OldSchool

11-22-2016, 11:25 AM

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-reston-jfk-assassination-target-20161122-story.html

JFK wasn't the target...new theory

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-22-2016, 10:55 PM

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-reston-jfk-assassination-target-20161122-story.html

JFK wasn't the target...new theory

That's not new, I heard it years ago, but thanks for bumping up the thread on the anniversary.

LooksLikeCRicci

11-23-2016, 12:27 PM

I must be in a hole. I had never heard that theory. It's a very interesting one, to say the least...

plmkr88

11-23-2016, 07:49 PM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-23-2016, 11:41 PM

Conspiracies are always fun to talk about. But a conspiracy of this level is simply IMPOSSIBLE to keep secret and for so long. No way.

It was Oswald and he acted alone. Now whether his real target was JFK or JC that can be another discussion.

If Oswald was aiming for Connally he picked a heck of a time and was a lousy shot.

LooksLikeCRicci

11-28-2016, 02:33 PM

If Oswald was aiming for Connally he picked a heck of a time and was a lousy shot.

That's the thought that passed through my brain, as crude and morbid as it may be...

Babalu

11-28-2016, 08:10 PM

Oswald - and only Oswald - killed Kennedy because he was a nobody that wanted to be a somebody. And that's the twisted rationale of almost all mass murderers or assassins that pick someone famous to kill. How many of you know that Oswald likely tried to kill someone else well known at the time before he shot Kennedy? Look up General Edwin Walker.

TheCars1986

11-29-2016, 10:42 AM

I've always maintained that if Oswald was a "patsy", he wouldn't have killed JD Tippit.

DALLASTEXAN!!

11-30-2016, 08:37 AM

I've always maintained that if Oswald was a "patsy", he wouldn't have killed JD Tippit.
oh my that is a point that many conspiracy theorists love to overlook. They will create new dots to trace, but bypass the ones that were already there.

the police were already on his trail that early in the investigation and he kills a cop in defense to escape from his action. For those that are not aware the movie theatre that he was at is not so close to downtown either. IIRC it is easily a 20 min drive today with traffic, but back then may have been faster to navigate. if he were innocent he would have had no reason to kill an officer like that being that far away from the crime scene.

As for Oswald I do think he was trying to make something of himself and chose that strange path. he may have succeeded at killing our president, but he still failed in the sense that so many think he was not capable of carrying out the crime...the irony.

kane7474

01-08-2017, 11:00 PM

Conspiracies are always fun to talk about. But a conspiracy of this level is simply IMPOSSIBLE to keep secret and for so long. No way.

It was Oswald and he acted alone. Now whether his real target was JFK or JC that can be another discussion.
What do you mean keep secret? People have been talking since the day it happens. Oswald, ruby, police officers, FBI men. All kinds of people talked. Some were murdered. Others not taken seriously

kane7474

01-08-2017, 11:04 PM

oh my that is a point that many conspiracy theorists love to overlook. They will create new dots to trace, but bypass the ones that were already there.

the police were already on his trail that early in the investigation and he kills a cop in defense to escape from his action. For those that are not aware the movie theatre that he was at is not so close to downtown either. IIRC it is easily a 20 min drive today with traffic, but back then may have been faster to navigate. if he were innocent he would have had no reason to kill an officer like that being that far away from the crime scene.

As for Oswald I do think he was trying to make something of himself and chose that strange path. he may have succeeded at killing our president, but he still failed in the sense that so many think he was not capable of carrying out the crime...the irony.
Oswald was not innocent. He was part of the plan. He did not realize he was tha patsy at first but when he did he panicked. It amazing how much information and evidence people will ignore and call it all conspiracy

DALLASTEXAN!!

01-09-2017, 07:34 AM

Oswald was not innocent. He was part of the plan. He did not realize he was tha patsy at first but when he did he panicked. It amazing how much information and evidence people will ignore and call it all conspiracy

having grown up in North Texas...I've heard just about everything on JFK. and it is my personal opinion that he acted alone and while it is not 100% clear...it is very possible that he did act alone based on the evidence that we have to go off. now RFK I am not as sure about. I do see how that clouds the JFK outlook. indeed not a conspiracy we agree there I think..

;)

TheCars1986

01-09-2017, 09:02 AM

Every single claim that conspiracy theorists have pointed to (2nd gunman, Oswald part of a larger conspiracy, etc.) has been debunked. Oswald acted alone.

kane7474

01-09-2017, 11:35 AM

Every single claim that conspiracy theorists have pointed to (2nd gunman, Oswald part of a larger conspiracy, etc.) has been debunked. Oswald acted alone.
Debunked by what? How? If Oswald was just some loner then what's he doing in Russia? What's he doing in Mexico trying to get into Cuba? What's he doing hanging around with wealthy people who were later proven to be CIA operatives?

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

01-10-2017, 12:14 AM

Debunked by what? How? If Oswald was just some loner then what's he doing in Russia? What's he doing in Mexico trying to get into Cuba? What's he doing hanging around with wealthy people who were later proven to be CIA operatives?

Also wonder why the FBI questioned him for hours. Did they suspect him of planning foul play or were recruiting him for some?

zack007attack

01-10-2017, 02:03 PM

Debunked by what? How? If Oswald was just some loner then what's he doing in Russia? What's he doing in Mexico trying to get into Cuba? What's he doing hanging around with wealthy people who were later proven to be CIA operatives?

Maybe deep down, Oswald was a wannabe-assassin who went over his own head to the point of insanity. He desperately wanted to fight in some sort of war or cause a major international incident but as his previous efforts were faltering, he saw a chance at proving his own worth to potential underground employers for his services by executing the president.

kane7474

01-10-2017, 09:24 PM

Also wonder why the FBI questioned him for hours. Did they suspect him of planning foul play or were recruiting him for some?
Very good point and why was he questioned for over 10 hours while in custody with no notes taken and no recording made. Odd huh

kane7474

01-10-2017, 09:29 PM

Maybe deep down, Oswald was a wannabe-assassin who went over his own head to the point of insanity. He desperately wanted to fight in some sort of war or cause a major international incident but as his previous efforts were faltering, he saw a chance at proving his own worth to potential underground employers for his services by executing the president.
Nah Oswald was being controlled and he was being funded. When he went to Russia he was following orders, when he tried to get into Cuba (most likely as part of Castro assasniation plot) he was following orders. They were making Oswald from day one as well as others like him. I don't think he knew he was gonna be the fall guy for the assasination of JFK and when he realized he panicked and killed tippit. He then went to the theater as he knew the plan was for him not o survive the day. Hard to kill him in crowded theater. But they still managed to get him. They had no choice. He could not be allowed o survive and talk. It would have completely unraveled the power structure in this country.

kane7474

01-10-2017, 09:33 PM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-24-2017, 12:29 AM

Back when I first became interested, around the time of the 10th anniversary, my dad told me if Kennedy had immediately ducked after the first shot (which hit him--one of the three shots missed--), he might have been saved, but he could not do so--Dad said because of his back brace. Medical people have argued about this, saying the neck wound was so serious, Kennedy could not have spoken, and that the clutching at his throat was an involuntary nerve reaction and not him actually being able to reach for his throat. If you can stand to watch the Zapruder film frame by frame, you will see in the short time Jackie realized he was hurt and reached towards him, if she would have grabbed and pushed or pulled him down sideways, regardless of whether he could have bent forward, he would have either lived, or made a much better condition corpse!

Arnold_OldSchool

11-24-2017, 01:19 PM

When he went to the ER, they focused on giving him a tracheotomy 1st, and didn't even look at his head wound for several minutes. IIRC, it seems he would have probably survived the first shot.

Supposedly he was in a back brace in Dallas because he aggravated his perpetually sore back by tripping while chasing women at a pool.

plmkr88

11-25-2017, 10:54 AM

some people really really want this to be a conspiracy.

still don't buy it. but to each his own.

Arnold_OldSchool

11-26-2017, 12:21 AM

If it wasn't a cover up, then they botched the investigation badly by destroying evidence (the limo windshield), etc.

http://culturecrossfire.com/etc/unsolved-mysteries-jfk-anomalies-autopsy/

The “lone nut” theory has the shots striking JFK from behind. Eight doctors on the Parkland staff described frontal wounds while on record. A bullet wound in the front of JFK’s throat was even enlarged in order to put in a breathing tube. A massive blowout of head wound was noted by doctors along with FBI agent Frank O’ Neal and Secret Service agent Clint Hill. Hill would later describe how the rear portion of the President’s brain was missing as it was lying in the limo after JFK was whisked into the emergency room. Hill was pressured to change his story at later testimonials.

https://ajmacdonaldjr.wordpress.com/2013/11/10/the-arrival-of-jfks-body-at-bethesda-naval-hospital-what-i-saw/

It was the findings of this autopsy that created issues with the “official” story. Three doctors at Bethesda, along with a photographer described seeing the same massive head wound as the doctors in Dallas saw. These wounds disappeared somehow by the time the official x-ray and autopsy photos were taken however.
The FBI’s report even notes “surgery” being performed on JFK’s skull prior to the x-rays and autopsy photos being taken. X-ray technician Ed Reed and mortician Tom Robinson later confirmed they saw the surgery being performed. This would suggest then that the medical personnel at Bethesda were the participants in hiding an exit wound and crafting a body that would best serve the “official” story. Either that or all the doctors, nurses, Secret Service, federal agents and other random witnesses to history are simply wrong.

BiffMunson

11-26-2017, 12:23 PM

One of the facts of the assassination that is rarely brought up is the location of LHO. If you examine the entire route that JFK took, where Oswald was in the depository is the most perfect place to make the shots he made. Someone other than Oswald surmised that there was only 1 perfect place to pull something like this off. No other spot along the route afforded such a precise angle to make the shots he is credited with making. That begs the question, who facilitated Oswald? For someone who was labeled by the government as a pathetic loser who couldn't hold down a job, he sure did a hell of a job making sure he was in the one and only spot to make the greatest sniper kill in history.

Am I the only one who found it very odd that someone like him would purposely pose with his new rifle and newspapers to prove the date the picture was taken on? That's what a lot of educated people would call foreshadowing. Oswald did not have the intellect for something like that. No, He was a pawn. That was proven by Jacob Rubenstein. Anyone that doesn't think that Rubenstein wasn't sent to kill Oswald is a stone cold fool. He gained access to the police department the very night Oswald was arrested. How did he know Oswald was Guilty? How was he 100% positive the next day that he gained access yet again to such a heavily guarded location involving local, state and federal lawmen?

Not only those questions, but why the Italian rifle? A piece of garbage rifle that malfunctioned more than it fired? Where is the logic in that? Was it the hope of the puppet masters that giving Oswald such an unreliable rifle would scare and wake up people without actually killing anyone? On top of that, where was Oswald practicing his marksmanship? He was an average shooter while a Marine years earlier. In order to make those shots he would have had to gotten some range time under his belt. There is no mention of that anywhere. The closest they came to touching that subject is that they blamed him for trying to shoot and kill General Edwin Walker. So, Oswald missed a stationary target in Walker, who was sitting at his desk in his home, but hits a moving target multiple times? That in itself is absurd. To believe this one if forced to believe that since he was unable to hit a stationary target, he better practice a lot more before he attempts to hit a moving target this size of a head. Where did he get all that practice under his belt in the month and weeks leading up to the big kill?

Biff

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-26-2017, 09:30 PM

DALLASTEXAN!!

11-28-2017, 06:08 PM

To clear up a few things...the FBI questioned Oswald a month or so BEFORE the assassination! His wife said these agents took him out and interrogated him for hours, and she was very put out as dinner got cold.

So were these agents (or whoever) trying to warn him not to do anything bad, or recruit him to do something bad? Has anyone tried to learn through the Freedom of Information Act or anything, whether they really even were FBI agents, or perhaps from some agency who wanted Kennedy dead? If whoever did this suspected Oswald was a threat, and did not want Kennedy dead, WHY did they not make some excuse to detain Oswald when Kennedy was in Dallas, or watch him every minute?

Plus if anyone else was in the sniper's nest on the 6th floor of the School Book Depository, someone did a hell of a frame-up on Oswald, as he worked there, the gun was his, someone he rode with saw him taking something he said was curtain rods into the building which later proved to be the gun, and he left the building so fast immediately after the shooting he almost ran into a reporter running in to ask to use the phone! It's been proven over and over and over again that an expert marksman could make those shots from that position, and most if not all other positions have been ruled out--if you don't believe the stories about evidence of a front entry wound being concealed. Oswald was DEFINITELY involved...I just don't get the bit about the supposed FBI agents. Were they telling him, "We're on to you, commie, so don't try anything?" and then the cover-up was them and others trying to cover their own ass for having screwed up and not just detained Oswald, or did someone actually aid, abet, and recruit him, and if so who?
From what I’ve seen and heard for years is that the FBI were Monday morning qb’d over this for years. Of corse they should have held a full court press on LHO in hindsight. Just as they and other agencies should of seen 911 coming but did not prevent that either. I think if they covered anything it was to save their face over the fact that they had a psychopath on their radar and underestimated him to the point that he was able to kill a president. In order to protect future presidents maybe they made changes to their security practices and did/do not care to share all of the weaknesses that existed thereof.

For me this is the most open and shut conspiracy case in American history based on LHO’s actions before during and after the shootings. Yes remember he killed a dallas cop later in oak cliff area while he tried to escape. One fact theorists always leave off their sales presentation.

SPD Yellow

11-28-2017, 06:10 PM

I’m with the Warren Commission on all this, but I understand why people have a hard time accepting that Oswald acted alone. It seems inconceivable that the handsome well-educated scion of wealthy family, currently serving as the most powerful man in the world, gets taken out by a total loser Mama’s boy who failed at everything he tried, except assassinating the president, unfortunately.

Thing is, a survey of presidential assassins shows that Oswald was hardly an anomaly. Pretty much all of them were complete and total losers who had a stroke of good luck at the worst possible moment.

Pretty much the only exception to this rule is John Wilkes Booth, who had been making a successful living as an actor before killing Lincoln. Of course, Booth did act all put upon when people called him cowardly. Because there’s nothing cowardly about shooting an unarmed man in the head while he’s enjoying a comedy.

You kind of shake your head that it took them until McKinley before people were like, “Maybe we should have some form of security to protect the president so he can’t get taken out by any idiot off the streets.”

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

11-28-2017, 07:34 PM

From what I’ve seen and heard for years is that the FBI were Monday morning qb’d over this for years. Of corse they should have held a full court press on LHO in hindsight. Just as they and other agencies should of seen 911 coming but did not prevent that either. I think if they covered anything it was to save their face over the fact that they had a psychopath on their radar and underestimated him to the point that he was able to kill a president. In order to protect future presidents maybe they made changes to their security practices and did/do not care to share all of the weaknesses that existed thereof.

For me this is the most open and shut conspiracy case in American history based on LHO’s actions before during and after the shootings. Yes remember he killed a dallas cop later in oak cliff area while he tried to escape. One fact theorists always leave off their sales presentation.

Thanks for clearing that up about the FBI.

Regarding 9/11, I've seen Bill Clinton blamed--that all the distraction over his antics drew attention away from serious matters--even though he was not president at the time. Ummm, isn't it someone's job to monitor suspicious activities...such as, oh, I dunno, a whole bunch of Middle Eastern guys taking flight lessons and NOT ONE OF THEM asking how to land? My sister knew someone who knew someone who ALWAYS piloted, I believe, that Boston flight, and was NEVER late! On the VERY DAY OF SEPTEMBER 11, he was prevented by some delay, one of these impostor pilots stepped up and was immediately ushered to the cockpit so the flight wouldn't be delayed! No storming with box cutters needed!

Not to mention I hate the Bushes as much as anyone, but loved how so many blamed the one who was president because, while receiving reports, he continued reading a story to a second grade class. I liked the cartoon showing what he should have done was yell, "Forget about the story, kids, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" showing hysterical kids running screaming. Now that, I liked!

Also recently I saw some conspiracy nut slandering Officer Tippit, basically implicating him in the assassination. That, I did not like. People watch too damn many political thrillers and then churn out crap theories! My uncle was almost this bad--said Oswald knew of the plot, was trying to warn Kennedy, and then was made the patsy for the real culprits!

BTW, Pearl Harbor was Monday morning quarterbacked the same way for decades. One guy spotted a blip on the radar and notified another guy, who, knowing they were expecting a shipment of planes, said, "Don't worry about it." Famous last words, and the guy who uttered them drew the most flak, but many years later someone interviewed the first guy who was also blamed--if he had only told the second guy the number of planes, the second guy would have known they barely even owned 50 planes and certainly were expecting no such delivery, and the whole disaster could have been averted! The second guy explained it was only his second day on the job, he was alone, and all he knew was that radar blip was the largest thing he had ever seen--he had no idea what number of planes it might represent! Both these guys lived to be over 90 and were subjected to public ridicule and torture to their dying day! This despite the fact that a mini sub was caught in the harbor that morning, and by the time anyone was told they were being plastered with bombs and it was like, "We noticed."

One conspiracy I DO BELIEVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY, and HAVE FOR A GOOD YEAR AT LEAST, is that a "shadow government" was put in place at least by the time of the death of Franklin D. Roosevelt if not earlier. Eisenhower was the last president allowed any authority, and Nixon knew some things due to having been his vice president, but particularly after Kennedy was shot Nixon knew enough to keep his trap shut, at least on certain subjects, to avoid the same fate. I don't know if this necessarily means a conspiracy in killing Kennedy, who supposedly stepped out of line, threatening this shadow government--is it possible to believe two opposite things at once? It could be merely they let it be known that THEY, not the president, were running things--like that Mafia guy saying he had Mario Lanza killed for crossing him--and had Lanza's family, friends, and others believing it--when Lanza really likely suffered a heart attack. Anyway, the proof is in the pudding--the "Mad Hatter" isn't capable of running a drunken wet swimsuit contest, let alone any country, and we're still here, so someone else is pulling the strings! (If you don't believe Nixon was also mentally unstable, look up the Daniel Ellsberg tapes.)

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

06-30-2018, 08:26 AM

DALLASTEXAN!!

06-30-2018, 06:34 PM

Either the CIA actually did it, or they hit the jackpot by sending Kennedy to a state where he was despised full of nuts with guns and one got him and saved them the trouble.

roswellbooks.com/museum/?page_id=268
I take issue with that statement. the person that killed him was a nut. His name was Lee Harvey Oswald. Although he moved to Texas I don't even know that he was native to our state. It's not a proper statement to throw an entire state into the equation and call them full of nuts with guns. Just my opinion, but conspiracy theories and garbage media outlets that often never cite proper sources have perverted our opinions on topics such as this. especially with JFKs murder, but it could be applied to anything else these days.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

06-30-2018, 09:49 PM

I take issue with that statement. the person that killed him was a nut. His name was Lee Harvey Oswald. Although he moved to Texas I don't even know that he was native to our state. It's not a proper statement to throw an entire state into the equation and call them full of nuts with guns. Just my opinion, but conspiracy theories and garbage media outlets that often never cite proper sources have perverted our opinions on topics such as this. especially with JFKs murder, but it could be applied to anything else these days.

Many Texans welcomed and approved of JFK*, but many did not and made it known, especially in Dallas. Whether the CIA, Lyndon Johnson, or whoever else was behind it, Kennedy was encouraged to visit the place where he was most hated. If Oswald (nut with a gun) acted alone, everyone who worked to set Kennedy up hit the jackpot. One wonders if Jack Ruby also acted alone or was sent by others to silence Oswald, if Oswald in fact actually knew anything.

*A relative of mine was set to see him in Austin but of course he never made it that far.

plmkr88

07-01-2018, 12:00 AM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

07-01-2018, 10:49 PM

E. Howard Hunt implicated LBJ but this article doesn't mention the aliens.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-last-confession-of-e-howard-hunt-20070405

This page goes into great detail, including the aliens. He should have left the aliens alone and he might have been left alone.

http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/reports/JFK-hit-mjdirective.htm

James T

07-02-2018, 07:31 AM

No conspiracy.

Oswald acted alone.

If there was some big conspiracy or government cover up someone woulda talked. If there legit was something there, an ambitious journalist woulda found it and made a name for himself. Sometimes people just dont wana believe something so tragic and awful can be committed by one man alone.

You see it with so many cases, nearly always the most obvious answer is the reality. It only takes one racist, right wing nut to assassinate a president in a theatre. It only takes one mentally unbalanced Russian defector to kill a president in an open-top motorcade. It only takes a handful of fanatics to hijack planes & fly them into a building killing thousands of people. Most people cannot accept there doesn't need to be anything other than lax security/bad decision making from establishments, governments & leaders & one or a few determined lunatics to cause chaos.

DALLASTEXAN!!

07-05-2018, 03:46 PM

You see it with so many cases, nearly always the most obvious answer is the reality. It only takes one racist, right wing nut to assassinate a president in a theatre. It only takes one mentally unbalanced Russian defector to kill a president in an open-top motorcade. It only takes a handful of fanatics to hijack planes & fly them into a building killing thousands of people. Most people cannot accept there doesn't need to be anything other than lax security/bad decision making from establishments, governments & leaders & one or a few determined lunatics to cause chaos.

Absolutely cannot agree more! The part so many people fail to acknowledge is that Lee Harvey Oswald after fleeing the scene, murdered a Dallas police officer who tried to apprehend him. To this day a radio DJ in Dallas tells the story of his classmate finding out that his father(this police officer) died that day.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

07-05-2018, 11:02 PM

Arnold_OldSchool

07-08-2018, 04:42 AM

DALLASTEXAN!!

07-08-2018, 03:00 PM

Hard to explain that away. Not the actions of an innocent man.

Incidentally not trying to be argumentative here. The JFK assassination is one of those cases where I literally run the gamut from one end to the other of possibilities and am almost able to convince myself of several contradictory scenarios at once. I still believe even if Oswald acted alone, the CIA and others would have got President Kennedy anyway. As for his brother Robert F. Kennedy, good gravy, all those people saying if he'd gone out the other exit or not stopped to greet the busboy he would have lived. Bulloney! They had every possible exit covered unless he'd climbed out a window, and maybe even then! Definitely either a conspiracy or a whole bunch of separate guys in the same place at the same time with the same idea.

I don't know as much about the RFK murder to be fair so I won't really speak to it. Being from dallas the JFK murder is a historic event that happened in my hometown. Many of us regardless of political affiliation were hurt by it and I wasn't even alive when it happened, but hearing so many first hand stories are incredible.

I think UM and other documentaries show us that with public figures there are always conspiracies. We are not ok with our famous celebrities being mortal. the fact is JamesT hit the nail on the head with this one for me.

DALLASTEXAN!!

01-31-2025, 02:32 AM

some people really really want this to be a conspiracy.

still don't buy it. but to each his own.

yeah I think the conspiracy theories are lunacy. we just saw several months ago a lone wolf almost get away with a shooting on a president. everyone knows he was acting alone. there doesn't have to be some grand conspiracy for every famous person getting killed or shot at.

cordwainer1453

01-31-2025, 01:37 PM

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

01-31-2025, 01:40 PM

yeah I think the conspiracy theories are lunacy. we just saw several months ago a lone wolf almost get away with a shooting on a president. everyone knows he was acting alone. there doesn't have to be some grand conspiracy for every famous person getting killed or shot at.

I take exception with "everyone knows he was acting alone." Some people, perhaps many, believe the ex-president set the event up to make a hero of himself. If that is untrue and this was a genuine assassination attempt, it was the worst backfire in history. It won Trump the election.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

01-31-2025, 01:42 PM

Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. In his first term, Trump sent out a very welcome Covid stimulus check. In his second, he has released classified papers on the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy, and Martin Luther King Jr. If there was a coverup it should now come to light. If not, it should be easier to prove there was not. But now that Trump has been right twice is the time to be scared about everything else he is doing or may do.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

01-31-2025, 01:53 PM

You're forgetting there actually WAS a conspiracy to assassinate Lincoln and several others. But it worked about as well as a conspiracy like this would work. Only Booth succeeded. The others either chickened out or merely wounded their targets.

I may have told this story before, but when I was in Jr. High fifty years ago, my history teacher said that there were secret papers pertaining to the Lincoln assassination which were sealed for 75 years. When they came up for review in 1940 they were considered still too hot and were sealed for another 75 years. He said when they came up again (which would be 2015) it might be too late for his generation (although I think he was only in his late 30s at the most, I have no idea if he's still alive*) but our generation might be able to see them. After 2015 came around I asked around and at least one person who qualified as an expert said there never were any such papers. I was interested to hear the other day that there were such papers in the cases of John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy, and Martin Luther King Jr. and that these are now being released.

*Actually I just did a couple of searches and found someone by the same name who is almost certainly him. Ironically, he is 75!

tvscript124

01-31-2025, 03:16 PM

DALLASTEXAN!!

01-31-2025, 04:27 PM

I take exception with "everyone knows he was acting alone." Some people, perhaps many, believe the ex-president set the event up to make a hero of himself. If that is untrue and this was a genuine assassination attempt, it was the worst backfire in history. It won Trump the election.

while he is known for staging stuff, I'm not buying it. I think it just proves the determined lone wolf lunatic is a lot more dangerous than we care to admit.

Dogface82

01-31-2025, 08:41 PM

DALLASTEXAN!!

01-31-2025, 08:53 PM

I have lost track of how many times the US government has promised to release the truth regarding assassinations since the Warren commision. Each and every time there has been the caveat of preserving national security. To include this latest announcement. Something will eventually be released. When? Who knows? Will it be worth reading?
I am not holding my breath.

I can help you with that. they have nothing more to release other than they should have kicked LHO to the curb long before he shot the president. that's about it.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

02-01-2025, 01:25 PM

I can help you with that. they have nothing more to release other than they should have kicked LHO to the curb long before he shot the president. that's about it.

ABSOLUTELY! Why a whole group of people watching the president (who ultimately were unable to help except for Clint Hill saving Mrs. Kennedy) and NO ONE watching the nut they KNEW was a threat!?! Absolute insanity! Also Jack Ruby started an industry when he shot Oswald. If Oswald had stood trial it would have been much less of a big deal.

And, I take back what I said about Robert Kennedy's assassination being a mass conspiracy. I have since learned more and believe that Sirhan Sirhan acted alone, neither was he hypnotized by the CIA or anybody, he was just mad enough to kill about Kennedy's support of Israel.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

02-01-2025, 01:37 PM

It'll be interesting to view the declassified files on the RFK, JFK, and MLK assassinations. Oliver Stone certainly had his take on JFK.

There are a lot of unanswered questions around the JFK assassination. But in general any time a politician is targeted, there are all kinds of conspiracies usually blaming the other party. Rep Gabby Giffords was shot years ago. There was all kinds of unfounded speculation, but in the end, Jared Lee Loughner, the shooter, was proven to be completely nuts and with truly bizarre political theories, especially if you looked at his social media. And Ronald Reagan's would-be assassin, John Hinckley, was an unhinged man who wanted to impress Jodie Foster when she was a student. Both Reagan and Giffords survived, but you cannot go through something like that and not be forever changed.

I don't have any theories on Reagan except to say the secret service agent who took a bullet to save Reagan's life was a hero who didn't receive enough credit. Perhaps it was felt that he was just doing his job and therefore didn't deserve special recognition but at least you'd think the president could have given him a crummy medal or something. It seems ungrateful.

As far as that day, I remember it vividly. I hated Reagan as much as I thought I could hate anybody (I have learned since 2016 it's actually possible to hate someone much more) but was startled when I heard he was shot. I was at college and heard it in the cafeteria. At that point there wasn't much to be known, so at some point I called my parents who I knew would have the TV on. Dad said Mom was freaking out because the shooter's name was John W. Hinckley. Her grandfather's name was John W. Hinkley. One of the news broadcasts even spelled the shooter's name without the "c" and Mom was beside herself. You wouldn't think at Reagan's age he would survive but he did. At the time we had an 8-page April Fool's edition of the school paper all ready to go, 4 pages of which were Reagan satires, all of which we had to delete. The teacher wondered if we should also delete an item about a Selma Maalox winning a Nancy Reagan lookalike contest and a male student uttered the immortal words, "No, she didn't stop a slug." :lol:

irehtman

02-01-2025, 07:56 PM

Also, nobody noticed that Lee Harvey Oswald was also considered a Natural-Born Confederate.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

02-02-2025, 01:37 PM

Nobody could believe a lefty got Kennedy when so many righties hated him. His wife was quoted as saying, "It wasn't even about Civil Rights. It was just some silly little Communist." That may not be the exact quote, but I don't feel like looking it up. You can if you want.

TheCars1986

02-03-2025, 10:18 AM

JFK conspiracy theories are born from the fact that people cannot accept that one of the most popular US presidents was assassinated by a pathetic communist. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

02-03-2025, 01:27 PM

JFK conspiracy theories are born from the fact that people cannot accept that one of the most popular US presidents was assassinated by a pathetic communist. Nothing more, nothing less.

And maybe money grabs and even mental illness. One group convinced Oswald's wife that he had somehow been replaced with a duplicate to the point that she had him exhumed. I believe dental records proved it was him. This was despite the fact that his own brother said he saw Lee in the casket at the funeral. To this day, (or at least last I heard) Marina Oswald Porter believes that Lee was innocent and is teaching her children and grandchildren to believe this. She is just a very nice lady who happened to marry two absolutely horrible men. I believe the brother does think Lee did it. He said he had no idea why.

Dude111

02-04-2025, 01:06 AM

I wonder if they will ever come off it and tell us what many know already.. It was an inside hit because he wouldnt do what they wanted..

MediaHoarder

02-04-2025, 01:25 AM

JFK conspiracy theories are born from the fact that people cannot accept that one of the most popular US presidents was assassinated by a pathetic communist. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nonsense. There is far, far, far more to it than the pop psychology explanation advanced by William Manchester.

Manchester, in The Death of a President was one of, if not the first to put forth this explanation that theories of conspiracy are a product of people wanting to balance a "great man" like Kennedy against someone like Oswald (or at least the version of Oswald that lone gunmen theorists put forth). This same sort of pop psychology explanation has since been used for other incidents where a conspiracy explanation was put forth.

However, there is an equivalent psychological explanation which explains why people reject conspiracies in favor of "official" explanations even when reason would dictate otherwise. Simply put, people don't want to believe that their government, powerful institutions, and trusted men would lie to them or cover up the truth. Its much easier to believe that your establishment is benevolent and honest.

Of course, even putting aside the obvious corollary to Manchester's psychological explanation, it also falls apart internally. "one of the most popular US presidents"? Give me a break. Kennedy barely won the election in 1960, and even a raging Kennedy fanboy like Manchester had no trouble in identifying just how much of the country did not like the man. The fact that he died in office has badly warped the perception of his popularity, but suffice to say there are and always were a very large number of people who did not hold him in high regard and would have no problem accepting a lone gunman theory if it actually made sense.

No, the conspiracy theories have nothing to do with the psychological musing of a Kennedy fanboy historian and everything to do with the fact that the crime scene was hopelessly compromised, the body illegally removed from the jurisdiction where the crime occurred without an autopsy being performed, and the government explanation tendered being so implausible that not even the sitting president believed it.

TheCars1986

02-04-2025, 08:05 AM

Of course, even putting aside the obvious corollary to Manchester's psychological explanation, it also falls apart internally. "one of the most popular US presidents"? Give me a break. Kennedy barely won the election in 1960, and even a raging Kennedy fanboy like Manchester had no trouble in identifying just how much of the country did not like the man. The fact that he died in office has badly warped the perception of his popularity, but suffice to say there are and always were a very large number of people who did not hold him in high regard and would have no problem accepting a lone gunman theory if it actually made sense.

He had the highest average approval rating from Eisenhower to today (https://historyinpieces.com/research/jfks-presidential-approval-ratings), but yes, he wasn't that popular among the electorate.

Simply put, people don't want to believe that their government, powerful institutions, and trusted men would lie to them or cover up the truth. Its much easier to believe that your establishment is benevolent and honest.

Imagine thinking people actually still think like this after the last 8 years or so. :lol::lol::lol:

DALLASTEXAN!!

02-04-2025, 10:44 PM

MediaHoarder

02-05-2025, 03:24 AM

He had the highest average approval rating from Eisenhower to today (https://historyinpieces.com/research/jfks-presidential-approval-ratings), but yes, he wasn't that popular among the electorate.

Imagine thinking people actually still think like this after the last 8 years or so. :lol::lol::lol:

His approval rating is not his electoral record. He won very narrowly in 1960 on the strength of the Chicago machine alone.
Approval ratings are not votes, and they swing wildly based on transient conditions. Bush Jr. peaked with a 90% approval rating after 9/11, but nearly half of those who "approved" of him then voted against him just 3 years later.
No doubt Kennedy had his popular moments, he certainly benefited from the Cuban Missile Crisis, not because he handled it well, but because he ensured the public only received information which painted him in a good light.
If Kennedy was as wildly popular as people have retroactively made him out to be he never would have had to go to what was supposed to be a democratic stronghold state for a multi-city campaign tour in the first place.

The past 8, or for that matter 30 years are not relevant. Even in the 60's a majority of Americans never bought the Warren commission account of events.

Which then begs the question, why did UM never do JFK as a segment? Seems like the kind of thing that would have been a good 2 hour special.

TheCars1986

02-05-2025, 08:20 AM

Which then begs the question, why did UM never do JFK as a segment? Seems like the kind of thing that would have been a good 2 hour special.

"Why waste production time and cost on a two hour special over a president that was assassinated by a communist loser?"

-John Cosgrove and Terry Dunn Meurer probably

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

02-05-2025, 01:29 PM

I wonder if they will ever come off it and tell us what many know already.. It was an inside hit because he wouldnt do what they wanted..

There is PLENTY of evidence that MANY people wanted JFK dead for a number of reasons. He may have wanted out of Vietnam which the military-industrial complex was against. The Mafia may have been out to get him. There were the Civil Rights issues. He said he would scatter the CIA to the four winds. He demanded full disclosure of the space alien issue just ten days before he was shot. I doubt Oswald was recruited--why the cheap crummy gun and not one that would really do the job? Given all these factors, though, I wonder if someone KNEW Oswald was a threat and deliberately did nothing just hoping they'd luck out and not have to have Kennedy killed themselves? Then when he was shot they felt they'd won the lottery, especially Lyndon Johnson. Nixon even said in a taped interview, "I want to be president, but I wouldn't kill for it," implying Johnson had it done.

MediaHoarder

02-05-2025, 10:54 PM

"Why waste production time and cost on a two hour special over a president that was assassinated by a communist loser?"

-John Cosgrove and Terry Dunn Meurer probably

Oswald may or may not have been a communist. He may or may not have killed Kennedy. If he did, he did not act alone. And he was anything but a looser.

That said, I could see them drinking the establishment cool aid. On JFK, Hollywood and the big 3 news agencies were always ready to parrot whatever the Warren Commission's fantasy lies were. Well, until Oliver Stone came along in any case.

TheCars1986

02-06-2025, 08:07 AM

Oswald may or may not have been a communist. He may or may not have killed Kennedy. If he did, he did not act alone. And he was anything but a looser.

If Oswald did not kill Kennedy, why did he murder JD Tippit?

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

02-06-2025, 01:19 PM

If Oswald did not kill Kennedy, why did he murder JD Tippit?

Great question!

Dogface82

02-06-2025, 02:02 PM

Mortal Error by Bonar Menninger is an interesting read on the JFK assassination.

ghosthouse

02-09-2025, 09:28 AM

ABSOLUTELY! Why a whole group of people watching the president (who ultimately were unable to help except for Clint Hill saving Mrs. Kennedy) and NO ONE watching the nut they KNEW was a threat!?! Absolute insanity!

There are a ton of idiots in the world. On that day some were working at McDonalds and some were working for the Secret Service.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

02-09-2025, 01:28 PM

There are a ton of idiots in the world. On that day some were working at McDonalds and some were working for the Secret Service.

I read part of a book that blamed Kennedy for his own death for running such a loose ship--everyone around him thought it was party time even though drinking on duty was grounds for dismissal from the United States Secret Service. All the agents were drinking the night before, one until the early morning hours, although they needed to be on duty no later than 8 a.m. If Clint Hill would have jumped a quarter of a second earlier he'd have saved the president. He was guilty over this for years and turned to alcohol and tobacco but eventually became healthy and has since outlived everyone. I don't know the history on the Secret Service agent who was sitting in the front or on the driver but of everyone else Clint Hill is the only one alive today who was in or on that car in 1963. Later a lot of changes and reforms were made though none of the Kennedy detail were fired for dereliction of duty and some continued to serve for years.

Stratego

02-25-2025, 12:36 AM

JFK conspiracy theories are born from the fact that people cannot accept that one of the most popular US presidents was assassinated by a pathetic communist. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree. Oswald was a loser who failed at almost everything he did, but lived in a fantasy world where he imagined he was someone important. That he killed Kennedy was actually sheer luck and coincidence (although he was not an unskilled marksman). Reading the interviews with his brother and his psychological ecvaluation as a kid really opened my eyes what was going on with this guy.

BuffaloBill

02-25-2025, 08:12 AM

I read part of a book that blamed Kennedy for his own death for running such a loose ship--everyone around him thought it was party time even though drinking on duty was grounds for dismissal from the United States Secret Service. All the agents were drinking the night before, one until the early morning hours, although they needed to be on duty no later than 8 a.m. If Clint Hill would have jumped a quarter of a second earlier he'd have saved the president. He was guilty over this for years and turned to alcohol and tobacco but eventually became healthy and has since outlived everyone. I don't know the history on the Secret Service agent who was sitting in the front or on the driver but of everyone else Clint Hill is the only one alive today who was in or on that car in 1963. Later a lot of changes and reforms were made though none of the Kennedy detail were fired for dereliction of duty and some continued to serve for years.

Congrats ! You jinxed the poor guy, he just died last Fri, Feb 21 at 93. :happyface

irehtman

02-25-2025, 06:34 PM

I agree. Oswald was a loser who failed at almost everything he did, but lived in a fantasy world where he imagined he was someone important. That he killed Kennedy was actually sheer luck and coincidence (although he was not an unskilled marksman). Reading the interviews with his brother and his psychological ecvaluation as a kid really opened my eyes what was going on with this guy.

You didn't notice that Oswald was a confederate, who has a relative, a former deceased Confederate general, named Robert E. Lee, before Oswald accidentally ended up in Russia to become both a Communist and a traitor, first of all. Although, Oswald was not an adultist and he didn't assassinate JFK alone. There were other members of his group that are also considered, confederates, communists and adultists combined altogether to also assassinate JFK along the way back then, but there all arrested alive and taken to court to be sentenced either to life in prison or by death penalty.

DALLASTEXAN!!

02-25-2025, 09:53 PM

You didn't notice that Oswald was a confederate, who has a relative, a former deceased Confederate general, named Robert E. Lee, before Oswald accidentally ended up in Russia to become both a Communist and a traitor, first of all. Although, Oswald was not an adultist and he didn't assassinate JFK alone. There were other members of his group that are also considered, confederates, communists and adultists combined altogether to also assassinate JFK along the way back then, but there all arrested alive and taken to court to be sentenced either to life in prison or by death penalty.

LHO is related to Robert E. Lee?

biffbronson

03-02-2025, 09:37 AM

Dan Rather, after seeing the Zapruder film soon after the assassination, claiming the fatal shot caused JFK's head to move forward:

317929

317930

Good job Dan, you totally misrepresented what the film revealed. One of the first people in the world to see the indisputably un-doctored film, and you deliberately
tell the American people that the bullet that dispersed JFK's brain matter came from behind. The general public had to wait 12 years before seeing the film. Dan literally ran
from the theater to go make his FALSE report.

Regardless of what anyone believes about Oswald, there is no way his were the only shots - it's indisputable there HAD to have been another shooter.

Stratego

03-02-2025, 03:22 PM

ghosthouse

03-03-2025, 08:44 AM

Regardless of what anyone believes about Oswald, there is no way his were the only shots - it's indisputable there HAD to have been another shooter.

I think you can make the argument that JFKs head does make a very slight push forward before exploding backwards.

But regardless of Dan's wording, a shot from behind - going in clean and then exploding out of the front side of his head - is perfectly acceptable ballistically.

I just can't believe the conspiracy theories have gone on for 60+ years when there has never been one actual concrete piece of evidence to indicate anything other than Oswald doing it alone.

TheCars1986

03-05-2025, 08:25 AM

I just can't believe the conspiracy theories have gone on for 60+ years when there has never been one actual concrete piece of evidence to indicate anything other than Oswald doing it alone.

Screenshots of Dan Rather are not enough evidence for you?

ghosthouse

03-05-2025, 10:28 AM

Screenshots of Dan Rather are not enough evidence for you?

It didn't sway me lol

Duster76

03-06-2025, 12:43 PM

All of the major questions that have come up have been dealt with in books by Gerald Posner, Vincent Bugliosi, in addition to specials done by CNN, CBS, ABC. It's up to the people who don't believe the overwhelming evidence that Oswald acted alone and he was the lone gunman to present real facts not speculation, or crackpot theories.

TheCars1986

03-07-2025, 09:41 AM

If Oswald didn't shoot Kennedy, who used the rifle purchased by Oswald to attempt to assassinate Edwin Walker? Or was he just a patsy in that one too?

ghosthouse

03-07-2025, 10:37 AM

If Oswald didn't shoot Kennedy, who used the rifle purchased by Oswald to attempt to assassinate Edwin Walker? Or was he just a patsy in that one too?

The Walker shooting is completely irrelevant. You could go to trial and prove he was framed for that shooting (he wasn't tho, it was him) and the jury would still be like -- okay but what do you want to argue about the JFK assassination? Proving he did that shooting doesn't put him in or out of the 6th floor window nor does it prove there was a shooter on the knoll or not.

TheCars1986

03-07-2025, 11:35 AM

The Walker shooting is completely irrelevant.

The Walker assassination attempt, is highly relevant. The bullet was too damaged to run conclusive ballistics tests on, but when chemical tests were done on the bullet found in Walker's home, they matched the same type of rifle that Oswald had purchased just a month before the assassination attempt on Walker. The same rifle used to assassinate JFK.

biffbronson

03-08-2025, 09:08 AM

For those who believe LHO acted alone:

"Even John McAdams, a die-hard anti-conspiracy theorist, agrees that at least 33 witnesses spoke of hearing a gunshot from in front of the motorcade."

https://jfkfacts.org/21-jfk-cops-who-heard-a-grassy-knoll-shot/

On the incident & subsequent investigation in general, 2 important things to consider:

1. CIA testimony claimed their knowledge of Oswald was "minimal" when in fact, they had compiled a 180-page file on him prior to the assassination -- and as well reportedly knew he would be in the Dallas area prior to JFK's arrival. Why the lie? COMPLICIT in the execution.

2. Oliver Stone has commented that appointing Allen Dulles to the Warren Commission was like asking a fox to inspect your chicken coop. What an absolute joke of an investigation.

I think Stone's strong skepticism as to the truth in what the American public was fed is more in line with the vast majority of citizens' beliefs than the outright dismissal of a cover-up.

And we are still waiting to learn of a plausible way the magic bullet went in and out of JFK, into/out of Connally's thigh, and in/out of Connally's wrist, come on that whole single bullet "explanation" was an absolute fabrication based in fantasy. And the people in the grassy knoll area all were hallucinating apparently, right...

Finally, if this matter was handled with any kind of competency, why has Kennedy's brain gone missing -- come on, the leader of the free world murdered and U.S. officials blundering like crazy? JFK's brain in a jar in someone's mancave, might as well be the case as far as Washington knows. LBJ never cared to make sure something like that was handled with the competency and respect due, yet he just happened to have a copy of the articles of succession on him so that he could be sworn into the Prez office immediately following the shooting. "How convenient!" :lol:

ghosthouse

03-08-2025, 04:09 PM

cordwainer1453

09-05-2025, 11:06 AM

Killarney Rose

09-05-2025, 12:13 PM

What he said.^^^^^

biffbronson

09-05-2025, 09:25 PM

The whole JFK conspiracy has become a great industry. Just like the Roswell thing. It has been thoroughly debunked long ago, but it still continues.
(even most of the UFO true believers do not believe in Roswell anymore, that should tell you something). I am sure I will get lots of hatred for this post, sorry to ruin your fun, conspiracy nuts.

No hatred -- but those who believe that the U.S. government doesn't lie to us in order to cover-up sketchy behavior are just as big of "nuts" as the conspiracy theorists. If not bigger.

No, the mysterious death of Dorothy Kilgallen at age 52 doesn't "prove" a second shooter on the day of the assassination. But for a highly competent reporter who was fervently piecing together the true story behind Jack Ruby's involvement, leading to the full "picture" to suddenly be sent to an early grave is hardly credible as just a coincidence. One doesn't always require "proof" from just that day to see that clearly there was more going on than what the Warren Commission was willing to disclose.

Regarding Roswell, I don't care about "Project Mogul" if that's what went on -- but for the government to try to dismiss the incident as simply debris from a "weather balloon" is beyond ridiculous, and that's the issue: lack of transparency. Decades after what was once Classified has totally obsolete implications for today's world, there's still no lifting of the veil of secrecy.

SPD Yellow

10-03-2025, 11:49 PM

I agree with the Warren Commission here—Oswald did it and acted alone—but I understand why conspiracy theories about the assassination endure. It just seems inconceivable that the handsome, well-educated scion of a wealthy family, the most powerful man in the world, got assassinated by someone like Lee Harvey Oswald. I understand why people would look at Oswald and be like, “This guy? This guy killed Kennedy?! This snot-nosed, C Student, loser wasteoid who can’t let go of his mama’s apron strings assassinated Kennedy?!”

It really doesn’t help that all our fictional media are filled with stories about super-skilled genius assassins when in real life, most political assassinations are rather clumsy affairs that could have been stopped at many many points along the way but for some reason, they weren’t. The Assassination of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand (https://youtu.be/5DYZEft2m3M?si=bvw-GwMq5T-yd3iA) frequently sounds like something out of a Keystone Kops sketch and would almost be hilarious, were it not for the fact that it succeeded and we got WWI, WWII, and pretty much every major conflict of the 20th century as a result.

We all think about those little moments in history where against all odds, everything came together in joyous triumph, but we have a tendency to forget that just as often, there are moments where against all odds, everything came together in just the perfect way for everything to go to ****. It’s why the song ”History Is Made by Stupid People” (https://youtu.be/AJsrcbVGsa4?si=G5W20v7YcivmHSHF) by the Arrogant Worms is both funny and true.

Plus, when it comes to presidential assassins, Lee Harvey Oswald is the rule, not the exception. With the exception of John Wilkes Booth, who had achieved national renown as an actor, all of our presidential assassins were losers, complete and absolute losers who failed at everything else in life except for assassinating the president unfortunately. I could go through and list their loserdom, but I’ll spare you.

Though I do feel that Booth deserves some loser status in that apparently, he acted very put-upon over people calling his attack on Lincoln cowardly, which you can completely understand. All he did was sneak up and shoot an unarmed man in the back of the head while he was distracted by a silly comedy; I don’t know why anyone would call that cowardly. :rolleyes:

The Lincoln Assassination is also the only presidential assassination which actually had a conspiracy involved rather than a lone nutcase getting lucky at the worst possible moment and note, it was a conspiracy of 5 people, not like the rumored conspiracy surrounding JFK which is supposed to contain LBJ, the FBI, the CIA, the Soviets, the Cubans, the Mafia, and who knows what else, probably a partridge in a pear tree at this point.

Sean Munger, a historian, has two videos on the forbidden site which exhaustively explain how Oswald acted alone and any suggestions otherwise are BS. Some interesting things he points out is that the so-called grassy knoll was filled with people that day who were watching the parade and do you really think that not one of them heard or saw any shenanigans? Also, it would have actually been harder to make the shots from the grassy knoll than from the book depository.

But a large reason why I agree with Munger is for the simple fact that Oswald was a loser, a complete and absolute flake who struggled to hold onto any kind of job no matter how menial; probably couldn’t manage to hold onto a burger-flipping scut work kind of position. If you really were part of a vast secret network that wanted to kill Kennedy, you couldn’t pick a worse person to have your scheme hinge on than Oswald; Oswald was so incompetent, he probably couldn’t take care of a pet rock. No one would pick Oswald for a scheme this important with this many moving parts, when there are already so many ways things can go too ****.

Cori aka ChrisSCrush

10-04-2025, 12:47 PM

I mostly agree with you that Oswald acted alone. Plus why would such a highly detailed conspiracy use the crappiest gun in existence?

DALLASTEXAN!!

10-04-2025, 01:30 PM

I agree with the Warren Commission here—Oswald did it and acted alone—but I understand why conspiracy theories about the assassination endure. It just seems inconceivable that the handsome, well-educated scion of a wealthy family, the most powerful man in the world, got assassinated by someone like Lee Harvey Oswald. I understand why people would look at Oswald and be like, “This guy? This guy killed Kennedy?! This snot-nosed, C Student, loser wasteoid who can’t let go of his mama’s apron strings assassinated Kennedy?!”

It really doesn’t help that all our fictional media are filled with stories about super-skilled genius assassins when in real life, most political assassinations are rather clumsy affairs that could have been stopped at many many points along the way but for some reason, they weren’t. The Assassination of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand (https://youtu.be/5DYZEft2m3M?si=bvw-GwMq5T-yd3iA)frequently sounds like something out of a Keystone Kops sketch and would almost be hilarious, were it not for the fact that it succeeded and we got WWI, WWII, and pretty much every major conflict of the 20th century as a result.

We all think about those little moments in history where against all odds, everything came together in joyous triumph, but we have a tendency to forget that just as often, there are moments where against all odds, everything came together in just the perfect way for everything to go to ****. It’s why the song ”History Is Made by Stupid People” (https://youtu.be/AJsrcbVGsa4?si=G5W20v7YcivmHSHF) by the Arrogant Worms is both funny and true.

Plus, when it comes to presidential assassins, Lee Harvey Oswald is the rule, not the exception. With the exception of John Wilkes Booth, who had achieved national renown as an actor, all of our presidential assassins were losers, complete and absolute losers who failed at everything else in life except for assassinating the president unfortunately. I could go through and list their loserdom, but I’ll spare you.

Though I do feel that Booth deserves some loser status in that apparently, he acted very put-upon over people calling his attack on Lincoln cowardly, which you can completely understand. All he did was sneak up and shoot an unarmed man in the back of the head while he was distracted by a silly comedy; I don’t know why anyone would call that cowardly. :rolleyes:

The Lincoln Assassination is also the only presidential assassination which actually had a conspiracy involved rather than a lone nutcase getting lucky at the worst possible moment and note, it was a conspiracy of 5 people, not like the rumored conspiracy surrounding JFK which is supposed to contain LBJ, the FBI, the CIA, the Soviets, the Cubans, the Mafia, and who knows what else, probably a partridge in a pear tree at this point.

Sean Munger, a historian, has two videos on the forbidden site which exhaustively explain how Oswald acted alone and any suggestions otherwise are BS. Some interesting things he points out is that the so-called grassy knoll was filled with people that day who were watching the parade and do you really think that not one of them heard or saw any shenanigans? Also, it would have actually been harder to make the shots from the grassy knoll than from the book depository.

But a large reason why I agree with Munger is for the simple fact that Oswald was a loser, a complete and absolute flake who struggled to hold onto any kind of job no matter how menial; probably couldn’t manage to hold onto a burger-flipping scut work kind of position. If you really were part of a vast secret network that wanted to kill Kennedy, you couldn’t pick a worse person to have your scheme hinge on than Oswald; Oswald was so incompetent, he probably couldn’t take care of a pet rock. No one would pick Oswald for a scheme this important with this many moving parts, when there are already so many ways things can go too ****.
enjoyed reading this. something that I always remember was that LHO fled the downtown area to Oak Cliff and ended up murdering JD Tippett, a police officer that approached him. clearly the actions of a desperate man.

Dude111

10-04-2025, 04:42 PM

I dont know if we will ever know the truth of tihs sad day.....

Many think it was an inside job and thats most likely what it was.... Otherwise they would have def found out who did it.....

mozartpc27

10-17-2025, 03:04 PM

I agree with the Warren Commission here—Oswald did it and acted alone—but I understand why conspiracy theories about the assassination endure. It just seems inconceivable that the handsome, well-educated scion of a wealthy family, the most powerful man in the world, got assassinated by someone like Lee Harvey Oswald. I understand why people would look at Oswald and be like, “This guy? This guy killed Kennedy?! This snot-nosed, C Student, loser wasteoid who can’t let go of his mama’s apron strings assassinated Kennedy?!”

It really doesn’t help that all our fictional media are filled with stories about super-skilled genius assassins when in real life, most political assassinations are rather clumsy affairs that could have been stopped at many many points along the way but for some reason, they weren’t. The Assassination of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand (https://youtu.be/5DYZEft2m3M?si=bvw-GwMq5T-yd3iA)frequently sounds like something out of a Keystone Kops sketch and would almost be hilarious, were it not for the fact that it succeeded and we got WWI, WWII, and pretty much every major conflict of the 20th century as a result.

We all think about those little moments in history where against all odds, everything came together in joyous triumph, but we have a tendency to forget that just as often, there are moments where against all odds, everything came together in just the perfect way for everything to go to ****. It’s why the song ”History Is Made by Stupid People” (https://youtu.be/AJsrcbVGsa4?si=G5W20v7YcivmHSHF) by the Arrogant Worms is both funny and true.

Plus, when it comes to presidential assassins, Lee Harvey Oswald is the rule, not the exception. With the exception of John Wilkes Booth, who had achieved national renown as an actor, all of our presidential assassins were losers, complete and absolute losers who failed at everything else in life except for assassinating the president unfortunately. I could go through and list their loserdom, but I’ll spare you.

Though I do feel that Booth deserves some loser status in that apparently, he acted very put-upon over people calling his attack on Lincoln cowardly, which you can completely understand. All he did was sneak up and shoot an unarmed man in the back of the head while he was distracted by a silly comedy; I don’t know why anyone would call that cowardly. :rolleyes:

The Lincoln Assassination is also the only presidential assassination which actually had a conspiracy involved rather than a lone nutcase getting lucky at the worst possible moment and note, it was a conspiracy of 5 people, not like the rumored conspiracy surrounding JFK which is supposed to contain LBJ, the FBI, the CIA, the Soviets, the Cubans, the Mafia, and who knows what else, probably a partridge in a pear tree at this point.

Sean Munger, a historian, has two videos on the forbidden site which exhaustively explain how Oswald acted alone and any suggestions otherwise are BS. Some interesting things he points out is that the so-called grassy knoll was filled with people that day who were watching the parade and do you really think that not one of them heard or saw any shenanigans? Also, it would have actually been harder to make the shots from the grassy knoll than from the book depository.

But a large reason why I agree with Munger is for the simple fact that Oswald was a loser, a complete and absolute flake who struggled to hold onto any kind of job no matter how menial; probably couldn’t manage to hold onto a burger-flipping scut work kind of position. If you really were part of a vast secret network that wanted to kill Kennedy, you couldn’t pick a worse person to have your scheme hinge on than Oswald; Oswald was so incompetent, he probably couldn’t take care of a pet rock. No one would pick Oswald for a scheme this important with this many moving parts, when there are already so many ways things can go too ****.

Excellent post. You've said everything I have ever thought about the Kennedy assassination, and said it perfectly. And the Lincoln assassination for that matter. This post is the triumph of reason.

Good for you.

Lieutenant Bookman

01-01-2026, 12:05 AM

His approval rating is not his electoral record. He won very narrowly in 1960 on the strength of the Chicago machine alone.
Approval ratings are not votes, and they swing wildly based on transient conditions. Bush Jr. peaked with a 90% approval rating after 9/11, but nearly half of those who "approved" of him then voted against him just 3 years later.
No doubt Kennedy had his popular moments, he certainly benefited from the Cuban Missile Crisis, not because he handled it well, but because he ensured the public only received information which painted him in a good light.
If Kennedy was as wildly popular as people have retroactively made him out to be he never would have had to go to what was supposed to be a democratic stronghold state for a multi-city campaign tour in the first place.

The past 8, or for that matter 30 years are not relevant. Even in the 60's a majority of Americans never bought the Warren commission account of events.

Which then begs the question, why did UM never do JFK as a segment? Seems like the kind of thing that would have been a good 2 hour special.

It’s too famous and too controversial and it has/had been discussed and covered to death by that point. To the extent that I would think most every adult in America had an opinion on it. There was nothing “new” that UM could have provided on the case that people hadn’t already seen before. UM’s bread and butter was little known/unknown cases or famous cases that had a new angle (Son of Sam cult of killers, Zodiac possibly being the unabomber, etc.) . The JFK assassination was neither, so there was no reason for UM to touch it.

biffbronson

01-01-2026, 03:32 AM

I mostly agree with you that Oswald acted alone. Plus why would such a highly detailed conspiracy use the crappiest gun in existence?

It's a little ironic that you claim such a 'crappy' gun was the sole weapon, yet it was effective enough for Oswald as a sole shooter to assassinate JFK in thorough and horrific fashion.

One of the most important aspects of the assassination aftermath has been ignored by all of those in this thread who believe there was no conspiracy: as I related earlier, Dorothy Kilgallen's sudden and mysterious death eliminated the reporter who was coming closer than anyone to unravelling the mystery concerning Jack Ruby that to this day still has yet to be solved. You can go on believing her death at age 52 was coincidental to the time of her investigation, which by all accounts she poured heart and soul into. But its lack of consideration (in this thread) in regard to a cover-up by government officials is an example of ignoring a pertinent 'event' in disingenuous fashion, casually dismissing a majority of Americans as "conspiracy nuts."

biffbronson

01-01-2026, 03:36 AM

Here is a post from way back 2006 discussing the importance of Ms. Kilgallen:

Dorothy discovered that Ruby and the slain Officer J.D. Tippit had been friends and were together in Ruby's Club at a meeting 2 weeks before the assassination with Bernard Weissman, who had put a JFK-Wanted ad in a Dallas newspapers in 1963. There was 4th man there - supposedly a rich Texas Oil man --- could we try a name like Rapport (never mind were this name comes from).

During that visit she stumbled onto some information and told others that she had discovered something. She referred to an man she called the Ferret man. This man was a friend of Jack Ruby's. Mob mongel Marcello and other Alpha 88 and coverts from Florida to Texas.

She was very secretive and scared - hiding something she was afraid of as some of us have done for yrs and later was dead of an overdose. Her files were gone. Her interview and the files were swept under a rug just like many things have been. Those who knew her know she did not OD.

From 2007, regarding the CIA and those who don't believe there was a conspiracy:

Im sure the CIA is overjoyed when hearing people say that Oswald worked alone and there was no conspiracy involved. Kennedy ran afoul of this agency not only over the bay of pigs but also with Vietnam. We all also understand about how the mafia wanted him gone for turning his back on them. It wasn't until Kennedy disolved the Federal Reserve that the death warrant was issued. Check into the facts here, after Kennedy was gone, Johnson re established the Federal Reserve system, escalated Vietnam into a full blown war and backed off of the Mafia. The CIA has been programming assasains for many years now, sound crazy to you? Thats exactly what they want you to think. Did you know that Mark David Chapman, John Hinkley Jr. and the leaders of the Jonestown cult were are part of the World vision church, which has been rumored for years to be controlled by CIA interest? We know the CIA used mind control expirements in the 50s using LSD. That didnt work so well so thats all you hear about. Do you really think they just gave up there? Thats what they'd like you to think. The successful mind control expirements that allow them to program an assasain have never been made public nor will they ever. Anytime someone like me brings this to light most of the general public will re-act just how they are expected to. By using words like wakko, conspiricy theory nut jub etc etc. Think about it and dig in, forget what you think you know if you want to get to the raw truth of anything.

rhzunam

01-01-2026, 07:40 PM

From 2007, regarding the CIA and those who don't believe there was a conspiracy:

I don't know how you think that post is a good example of anything.

DALLASTEXAN!!

01-02-2026, 07:35 PM

I don't know how you think that post is a good example of anything.

yeah IDK why any of the CIA theories are believed to be more credible than the facts that we know happened on the ground, like LHO murdering a dallas officer after the shooting in an attempt to escape. something that almost never gets brought up in the same manner as Ruby. I think the most likely scenario is that there were government agencies who failed to protect the president and they were embarrassed about it. when government agencies get embarrassed they can either come clean or cover it up. the latter doesn't mean that they were the ones that killed the president, it could mean that they were not forthcoming about what they could have done to stop Oswald considering he was just a common criminal with no capabilities beyond average.

MediaHoarder

01-25-2026, 10:52 PM

yeah IDK why any of the CIA theories are believed to be more credible than the facts that we know happened on the ground, like LHO murdering a dallas officer after the shooting in an attempt to escape. something that almost never gets brought up in the same manner as Ruby. I think the most likely scenario is that there were government agencies who failed to protect the president and they were embarrassed about it. when government agencies get embarrassed they can either come clean or cover it up. the latter doesn't mean that they were the ones that killed the president, it could mean that they were not forthcoming about what they could have done to stop Oswald considering he was just a common criminal with no capabilities beyond average.

LHO shooting J. D. Tippit isn't quite a fact, its more of a theory. There are some oddities with the ballistics and the eyewitnesses that leave room for doubt. I tend to think he did shoot him, but even if he did that really does nothing to refute the CIA based theories (which I don't put any credence in either, but to be academically fair...).

SPD Yellow

02-07-2026, 12:16 AM

MediaHoarder

02-07-2026, 01:52 AM

I don’t know why conspiracy theorists believe that a vast, sprawling conspiracy seeking to carry out a scheme with so many moving parts and an almost infinite number of ways for it to go south, would have their scheme hinge on such a pathetic snot-nosed punk like LHO. Wouldn’t it make more sense to, I don’t know, have your scheme be carried out by a competent person?

Strawman. Most of the more realistic theories are not vast or sprawling with many moving parts. Several of them postulate that LHO was not in fact involved at all. Also, most of the Lone Gunmen proponents claim LHO was a very good shot, so be careful throwing him under the bus as it tends to invalidate the Warren Commission claim. Frankly none of the shots from the Texas School Book Depository 6th floor would have been that difficult, the furthest was only 88 yards, so even at that the level of competency required is not particularly great. And finally there are theories which postulate that LHO was made to look incompetent (other than as a marksmen) as part of the coverup.

At the same time, like I said, I understand the conspiracies. It’s easier somehow to believe in insanely elaborate plots cooked up by a shadowy elite, rather than reckon with the idea that history can be made by some idiot being in the right place at the right time. Planning seems less scary to many people than the vagaries of random chance.

This pop psychology explanation has been going on since Manchester published The Death of a President and it is of course nonsense.

If we want to talk about what is less scary, it is far less frightening to believe that history was made by a lucky idiot in the right place at the right time (as we admit to in numerous other contexts with zero qualms), and the government found out who did it and all is well.

What is more scary is to think that a conspiracy of whatever variety was hatched that did this, and that your own government, which prides itself on being "by the people, for the people" lied to you and covered up the truth, either because they were in on the killing, or because they didn't think you could handle the truth. That is what Lone Gunmen theorists are afraid of, they would rather believe in a world without such implications.

People have said that LHO pulling off those shots at that particular time at that particular point would be the equivalent of winning the lottery in terms of the odds. The problem with making that argument is that people do, on occasion, manage to win the lottery.

Actually, most proponents of a conspiracy contend that shots were fired from two locations within seconds of each other, which is not the equivalent of winning the lottery, it is the equivalent of an entirely, completely, unquestionably, physically impossible occurrence. I don't care how many people win the lottery, LHO cannot shoot Kennedy from the front and rear within a 10 second timeframe.

DALLASTEXAN!!

02-08-2026, 05:21 PM

LHO shooting J. D. Tippit isn't quite a fact, its more of a theory. There are some oddities with the ballistics and the eyewitnesses that leave room for doubt.

It is accepted by most people as fact that LHO did kill Tippit. especially people in Dallas, even ones who are open to conspiracy angles. I wouldn't call that a theory, but I'm not here to change your mind.

DALLASTEXAN!!

02-08-2026, 05:28 PM

MediaHoarder

02-09-2026, 02:06 AM

It is accepted by most people as fact that LHO did kill Tippit. especially people in Dallas, even ones who are open to conspiracy angles. I wouldn't call that a theory, but I'm not here to change your mind.

Its been a while since I read it, but The JFK Assassination Debates: Lone Gunman Versus Conspiracy by Michael L. Kurtz had a pretty good commentary on the Tippit killing and the evidence related to it.

I call it a theory in part because, like any murder, I would use the word theory for any explanation which has not been vetted by the judicial process. Since LHO was never tried for any of these crimes any explanation would remain a theory no matter how robust the case for it using such a paradigm.

Personally I would be surprised if LHO did not kill Tippit, but nevertheless to be academically fair I consider that a theory, rather than a hard fact (of which there are relatively few in the JFK case).

My general impression from people I have ever discussed the case with in the real world is that most are only vaguely familiar with it if they have heard of it at all.

DALLASTEXAN!!

02-09-2026, 10:11 PM

Its been a while since I read it, but The JFK Assassination Debates: Lone Gunman Versus Conspiracy by Michael L. Kurtz had a pretty good commentary on the Tippit killing and the evidence related to it.

I call it a theory in part because, like any murder, I would use the word theory for any explanation which has not been vetted by the judicial process. Since LHO was never tried for any of these crimes any explanation would remain a theory no matter how robust the case for it using such a paradigm.

Personally I would be surprised if LHO did not kill Tippit, but nevertheless to be academically fair I consider that a theory, rather than a hard fact (of which there are relatively few in the JFK case).

My general impression from people I have ever discussed the case with in the real world is that most are only vaguely familiar with it if they have heard of it at all.
I guess to be fair since I grew up in dallas I rarely if ever heard it explained that way. the Dallas Police Department and most people there don't consider it a theory. and Tippit is a big part of the local story. there are still people around who are old enough to give vivid details of that day and Tippit was a big part of the story. one radio DJ and podcaster that I've listened to for years is from Oak Cliff, not far from where LHO was captured and where Tippit was killed. He has often retold the story and how shaken the community was when Tippit got killed in their neighborhood. he was in school when it happened. It's something probably gets overlooked everywhere else because everyone is focused on JFK. The Texas Governor also got shot, which I surmise was a miss shot by LHO.

MediaHoarder

02-10-2026, 12:45 AM

I guess to be fair since I grew up in dallas I rarely if ever heard it explained that way. the Dallas Police Department and most people there don't consider it a theory. and Tippit is a big part of the local story. there are still people around who are old enough to give vivid details of that day and Tippit was a big part of the story. one radio DJ and podcaster that I've listened to for years is from Oak Cliff, not far from where LHO was captured and where Tippit was killed. He has often retold the story and how shaken the community was when Tippit got killed in their neighborhood. he was in school when it happened. It's something probably gets overlooked everywhere else because everyone is focused on JFK. The Texas Governor also got shot, which I surmise was a miss shot by LHO.

With all due respect to the Dallas Police Department, their handling of the evidence and crime scene was a major contributor to the inability of later investigations to determine what happened. I forget the exact number (its in Kurtz's book) but as I recall there were far more fingerprints found on the 6th floor that belonged to Dallas Police than to LHO...depsite the fact that LHO worked in that building. And numerous other examples of mishandling of evidence and the investigation abound. All of which makes the opinion of Dallas PD regarding Tippit less persuasive.

In fairness to Dallas PD though, the shock and unusual circumstances certainly was to blame for some of the issues, and from what I recall the Tippit evidence and investigation was actually handled more professionally than the scene in Dealey Plaza. Nor was Dallas PD the only one to drop the ball that day, it was Kennedy's people who were responsible for illegally removing the body from the jurisdiction where the crime occurred before an autopsy, required by law, could be performed.

I'm sure Tippit was far more remembered in Dallas than elsewhere (outside of the JFK research crowd), which makes sense given the local versus national scope of the crime. And whereas the controversy surrounding JFK has always been present (I don't think there has ever been a time where a majority of Americans actually bought the Warren Commission Report) only those who have been involved as researchers or done a lot of reading have likely encountered a dissenting opinion on the Tippit murder.

bigted12

02-10-2026, 07:13 PM

People have said that LHO pulling off those shots at that particular time at that particular point would be the equivalent of winning the lottery in terms of the odds. The problem with making that argument is that people do, on occasion, manage to win the lottery.

I've always likened this to the fan who is plucked out of the crowd at half time at NBA games and gets to throw a shot from half way, sometimes they make it. Now if you got one of the best basketball players in the league right after had him make that half way shot, he'd more than likely miss...

Based on Garrisons logic, this means Oswald couldn't have done it, and it's false logic.

DALLASTEXAN!!

02-13-2026, 07:15 PM

With all due respect to the Dallas Police Department, their handling of the evidence and crime scene was a major contributor to the inability of later investigations to determine what happened. I forget the exact number (its in Kurtz's book) but as I recall there were far more fingerprints found on the 6th floor that belonged to Dallas Police than to LHO...depsite the fact that LHO worked in that building. And numerous other examples of mishandling of evidence and the investigation abound. All of which makes the opinion of Dallas PD regarding Tippit less persuasive.

In fairness to Dallas PD though, the shock and unusual circumstances certainly was to blame for some of the issues, and from what I recall the Tippit evidence and investigation was actually handled more professionally than the scene in Dealey Plaza. Nor was Dallas PD the only one to drop the ball that day, it was Kennedy's people who were responsible for illegally removing the body from the jurisdiction where the crime occurred before an autopsy, required by law, could be performed.

I'm sure Tippit was far more remembered in Dallas than elsewhere (outside of the JFK research crowd), which makes sense given the local versus national scope of the crime. And whereas the controversy surrounding JFK has always been present (I don't think there has ever been a time where a majority of Americans actually bought the Warren Commission Report) only those who have been involved as researchers or done a lot of reading have likely encountered a dissenting opinion on the Tippit murder.
yeah I imagine it was chaos. a lot of things that went wrong that day at multiple levels. and it was 1963 so we can't view it with the lens of the modern era of police work, where we still see people make mistakes (or are corrupt) but there are a lot of higher standards.

I understand where a lot of people would be asking questions of Jack Ruby. that adds a lot of fuel to conspiracies. but I think the murder of Tippett always led me to believe that LHO alone was the murderer. and my mind is pretty much made up. But I can see why there is a lot of controversy. and since so many of the people are gone now we may never know the complete truth and have 100% closure.

Clockwork

02-14-2026, 10:26 PM

bigted12

02-15-2026, 03:07 PM

With JFK it goes much deeper than Oswald being involved. If he was the one who pulled the trigger he didn't do it alone. Kennedy had plenty of people mad at him in the establishment, in his own party, etc. Stuff like the Cuban Missile Crisis was clearly an attempt at WWIII and Kennedy had some stones and basically told them all to go to hell. Things like firing the staffer who had suggested that they start fake riots in Cuba to make things look more chaotic. Or his revelation of "Secret Societies" speech a few days prior to him dying. Kennedy was NOT one of the elites who did their bidding. The stuff we see today like endless wars and paid protesters and things like that were happening then too but Kennedy didn't go along with that stuff. To me this is why he got shot. You aren't going to get shot if you are doing the UN-style agenda that they want them to do. But you might if you oppose it and actually fight for the interests of Americans.

Here is a good example. Kennedy dies, Johnson comes in right away. Almost immediately the War in Vietnam escalated and the draft happened and the imaginary Gulf of Tonkin incident and all of the sudden you have a divided country. Kennedy likely was shot because he wouldn't play ball. To me he's always been a martyr, even if half of the people don't realize he is.

I think it's obvious that Oswald killed Kennedy, I mean he defected to the Soviet Union, a move that was very radical at the time, We know he took shots at General Walker, That day he left his wedding ring, all his money (which suggests some "finality") he took something that he called curtain rails with him which his landlady said he didn't need and it was clearly the rifle, he was working on the floor where witnesses said shots came from, he then instead of staying at the SBD, he flees..he then shoots Tippett, which clearly tells us he thought he was being stopped because he had shot JFK, and then he goes and hides out at the picture house.. it's all there. he did it..

BUT, i've always been open to the idea that someone put him up to it. the problem is theres no real evidence of this, and the thing is nobody can make their mind up about who did it, the anti-american types put it down to the CIA, others think it was russia/cuba, then you have someone writing a book saying it was the mob, because he once lived 3 blocks away from some mob social club... nobody can make their mind up about who did it, and it's usually some political bias involved and not based on any facts.

I do believe that most people struggle with the idea that someone as insignificant as oswald could kill someone as significant as JFK...