So by now we all know that Lisa doesn't appear in "The First Time" due to her religious beliefs, which is fine....

but I've been noticing of late that there are other episodes of this series that deal with sex either directly or indirectly that Blair (and by extension Lisa) is involved in which I think is a little odd.

BTW, someone can tell me if this topic is out of line because in no way am I insulting Lisa or her beliefs or her decision not to appear. Just noting an inconsistency and wondering anybody else's take on it.

There are at least two episodes in which Tootie contemplates sex. Once with Jeff early on and another with Chip in Season 8. Granted she doesn't go through with it, so maybe that is why Lisa didn't mind participating.

However last night I watched the Season 8 episode where Sue Ann, Cindy and Nancy return. In that episode Nancy reveals that she is not a virgin and is three months pregnant to which Blair of all people is the one to crack a joke about it.

Or there are even just implied situations. Blair seemed fine with the prospect of Jo living with a guy in the opener of Season 9 when she mistakenly thinks Jo is living with her boyfriend with no hint of marriage in sight.

I just kind of wondered where the line was and why "The First Time" was different for her. It might be because in those other episodes sex wasn't the focus while here it was, but like I said, it's just something I've been noticing.

Well, from all the interviews I've seen Lisa put it this way. In her later years in the show, she was more into religion and felt that she and the other girls were role models for the young girls of the day. Contemplating sex is one thing, pregnancy by a "minor" character (in this case Nancy who had not been on the show in about 7 years) is different then when it was one of the main characters deciding to have sex before marriage.

You have to remember, this show was made in a different time then what we live in today. Sex is, unfortunately, something that a lot of kids experience before highschool. Back then, it was very taboo for young women to have sex before marriage. As Lisa grew older, she became firm in that belief of abstinance and refused to be on the show when one of the stars decided to take the plunge.

That must have been a difficult decision for her because the network could have fired her. Instead they accepted her position and wrote her out of the story line. Everyone is happy.

D

Well, I don't think Lisa would be that worried about being fired in the 9th season. By that point they all knew the show as ending that season so the network and producers were probably not going to cause a stink about Lisa opting out of one episode--especially as she had appeared in pretty much every one since the beginning of the show. So I do think Lisa was pretty safe by that point.

I also do agree that it is different being one of the main four than an outside character and it having more importance.

I think what brought it up for me is that I was just kind of shocked to see Blair make the first joke in response to Nancy's news in the 8th Season.

First off, a tip of the cap to Raya, for coming up with an interesting question. I am of the opinion that you can discuss just about anything, so long as you do so respectfully.

Lisa states in her FOL book that she regrets some of the choices she made earlier in her career. She says, at the time, she "bought into" the argument that Blair was only a character she was playing. Lisa cites the pilot episode on the "Different Strokes" series as an example. She wrote that even though the cigarette was not real, she regretted the fact that she gave the impression Blair smoked. Today, she understands that Blair was a role model for many young woman watching. Lisa also regrets some of the "immodest clothing" she wore in a few TV movies. Finally, Lisa writes that she's ashamed to admit that she once agreed to a part in a movie, but only read her part in the script. While her part was innnocent enough, Lisa said "the rest of the movie was just awful."

It's accurate to say that Lisa's faith has been a progression. Also, nearly 20 years of being a stay-at-home mom has changed her as well. I absolutely believe her when she says the out-going, talkative personality she exhibits today was not how she was during the FOL years. At that point in her life, she was very shy and uncomfortable when people recognized her and asked for an autograph.

Lisa's Christian faith--which I very much respect--never has been confrontational. Clearly, Lisa did not do what Kirk Cameron did, just a few years later, and that's the desire to rewrite scripts to suit his faith. Things got so bad on "Growing Pains" that all three producers quit. I recall the words of one of the "Growing Pains" producers who asked, "How do you write comedy without conflict?" If all the characters consistently say and do the proper "Christian" thing, what's funny about that? Heck, that means nobody can insult anyone else, so that pretty much eliminates Blair versus Jo, right? While Lisa opted out of the virginity episode in Season 9, I think she was wise not to tell the producers how to run the show.

What about "Chastity Gulch"?
Or...
Lisa writes that she's ashamed to admit that she once agreed to a part in a movie, but only read her part in the script. While her part was innnocent enough, Lisa said "the rest of the movie was just awful."

...was this talking about "Chastity Gulch"?

Thanks for the info Justwondering. I might just have to get my hands on Lisa's book. Sounds like an interesting read.

It does seem to me that Lisa's faith did progress as the series went on and I also appreciate her not telling the producers how to run the show while still maintaining her beliefs. Very good call on her part. That is why that one line surprised me.

Then again I do think Lisa lucked out in that Facts was a pretty clean show overall so there probably wasn't too much to object to outside of a line here or there. Especially as in those middle years the writers seemed not to go there when it came to issues of sex and what not.


You know, I can't say I necessarily agree with Lisa's personal views but I totally respect her for knowing how to present herself without being confrontational and keeping things to their time and place. Like with the FOL DVD media. As much as she mentioned her book and ministries here and there (which is fine), if the interview is about FOL she keeps it about FOL and doesn't use it to preach her own personal agenda---unlike a certain someone you mentioned.

LOL, I don't think Lisa would object to the Blair versus Jo relationship. From things she's said I think that was one of her favorite aspects of the show.

What about "Chastity Gulch"?
Or...

...was this talking about "Chastity Gulch"?

I suppose all we can do is guess because Lisa didn't specifically mention what the title of the film was that she was referring to. She might be speaking of "The Magician of Lublin," a 1979 film that was made in Germany.

She also did three consecutive made-for-TV movies that aired in October/November of 1980, 1981, 1982.

As much as she mentioned her book and ministries here and there (which is fine), if the interview is about FOL she keeps it about FOL and doesn't use it to preach her own personal agenda---unlike a certain someone you mentioned.

"That certain someone" is extremely aggressive in his message! Anyone who has heard him realizes his goal is conversion, plain and simple. It's "believe exactly as I believe or you are going to hell." Need I say that harsh of a message turns a lot of people off? I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that "that certain someone" has lost much of the good will and following he developed in the 1980s.

Lisa warns in her FOL book against judging anyone else. I've also heard her speak against tele-evangelists whose ministries are rooted in raising money. She believes those people give Christianity a bad name. Lisa wants to raise your curosity about her faith by being an example you wish to emulate. She is definitely not the "in your face" type. That's why I respect her.

(I admit that I've had a crush on her for so long, that it's hard not to be biased!)

I really don't have anything else to add. I just wanted to say I've really enjoyed reading what all of you have written. :)

One other thing I've noticed about FOL and this is not in relation to Lisa, but it was definitely edgier at the beginning and then sort of got away from that as time wore on.

You notice the issue of sex comes up more often in the first two seasons than it did later on.

I don't know the reason for this, but if I had to guess I would say that early on a lot of the sex related episodes are message related. The girls are young enough that the talk is innocent enough, they learn their lesson and move on. See "Sex Symbol" for instance. WE know Natalie isn't going to do anything like that. WE know she's just sort of figuring this whole dating thing out and has barely even kissed a boy yet.

Then when the girls get older and are fully immersed in the real world of serious relationships, most of the mentions of any sort of physical relationship disappear.

My guess is now that the girls were at the age where realistically some of them would be pondering this question, the writers didn't want to go there. Like I'm certainly not complaining that the writers didn't go there because it was a family show and was what it was, but for instance....

Blair is very serious with Cliff and they contemplate marriage. Jo seriously dates her 30 year old college professor who is already a father. Jo contemplates moving in with her boyfriend. Heck, even in regards to Jo/Rick they only make mentions of a physical relationship in the episodes after they get married.

Nothing wrong with it. I just think it's funny is all.

You know, i wondered the same thing! Becuase in the 6th season epsiode i believe it's called "My Boyfriends Back" blair talks to tootie about how jeff and his friend probably aren't sharing a room together, that the guy was sharing a room with ellen (i believe that was her name) and blair made it pretty clear that it was very normal for that to happen in college, that kids do it all of the time. I found that odd for her to say, but i do remember lisa saying that he became strong in her faith in the last few seasons.

I actually have to disagree with the different times of the late 80s where that was taboo... but hte late 80s it was very common for kids in high school to be experimenting with sex... i happen to be a by product of that myself, hehe. But my mom always said it was just peer pressure, a lot of kids her age were already having sex by their sophomore year. And as natalie said... "get with the times" or was it "times have changed" i'm pretty sure by the 80s, the idea of sex before marriage was pretty popular, also cohabitation. I mean think about how much of an effect the 70s had on america... sex was quite common among young adults and some teenagers who were not married

The following is an excerpt from Lisa Whelchel's Journal, dating back to October 11, 2001. At the time, she had just wrapped filming in Toronto of the FOL Reunion Movie. I was fascinated when I read this, mostly because you do not expect people, but particularly celebrities, to admit to stuff like this. Perhaps the moral of the story is being a Christian doesn't mean perfection:
The Blair's Wardrobe Incident

I want to turn a corner for a minute and talk soberly with you. I blew it yesterday and I want to confess it to you. Let me start at the beginning. I loved Blair’s wardrobe for the movie and tried very hard to negotiate either buying it or receiving it when filming ended. Over and over again I got the same negative answer. The word is, Michael Eisner once saw some Disney wardrobe in a Planet Hollywood Restaurant and was upset because it had been given to an actor and then they sold it. So, now, his policy is that nobody gets to keep his or her wardrobe.

I was very disappointed. For one reason, I have been a stay-at-home mom for the last thirteen years. I really haven’t had any purpose to go out and buy really nice clothes. But, in the near future, I’m going to start doing media interviews for the movie and I wanted have some nice outfits to wear.

On Friday, the last night of filming, the wardrobe lady came up with a great idea. She suggested that I go out and buy a less expensive black suit and bring it to her on Tuesday. She would exchange it for the fancy black suit that had been tailored specifically for me. This sounded terrific, so Tuesday morning I went to the nearest department store and found a cheap black suit. I also found a pink shirt, blue shirt and similar gray jacket to exchange. This way I would have two complete outfits.

I took a cab over to the production company Tuesday afternoon and made the switch. All was well until last night when I lay awake praying and God brought up the issue of the suits. He reminded me that many times I have said to my children, “Deception is lying with our actions instead of our words.”

At the same time, I realized that if I wore those outfits on an interview show, Kimmie and Mindy would surely recognize them from the movie. They wanted to buy some of their wardrobe as well. How would I explain the fact that I got some of mine and they didn’t? That would certainly put the wardrobe department in a bad position.

There is nothing I could tell them to justify my actions and redeem my testimony once the dark truth was uncovered. Of course, that should have been my first hint. Anytime we have to do something in the dark, it usually means that it won’t stand up in the Light.

So, today I packed up the suits and shirts and sent them back via FexEx to the production office. I told the costumer to feel free to give the clothes I exchanged to charity or take them back to the store and give the money away. I understand that this lesson will end up costing me a few hundred dollars but it would have cost me a whole lot more if I had gotten away with it.

I feel better now than I could have in the most expensive, designer suit ever made.

hehe, waht did that have to do with the point of her not wanting to be in the light of the show that had natalie losing her virginity? Very interesting topic, but was just wondering how it related besides about lisa's christianity

was just wondering how it related besides about lisa's christianity


Initially, the topic was that there were other sex-related episodes that Lisa Whelchel appeared in, but for some reason, she opted out of "The First Time," due to her religious beliefs. Raya wondered where the line was, and why "The First Time" was different.

My point in posting Lisa's journal entry is to indicate that just because she is a longtime Christian, doesn't mean she always makes the right decisions, or even the ones you would expect her to.

By the way, I apologize to anyone who believes my post was off the topic.

Initially, the topic was that there were other sex-related episodes that Lisa Whelchel appeared in, but for some reason, she opted out of "The First Time," due to her religious beliefs. Raya wondered where the line was, and why "The First Time" was different.

My point in posting Lisa's journal entry is to indicate that just because she is a longtime Christian, doesn't mean she always makes the right decisions, or even the ones you would expect her to.

By the way, I apologize to anyone who believes my post was off the topic.

No, I totally get your point. I've noticed too that often in Lisa's journal she reflects on something she did in the past and questions her behavior as to whether it was right or wrong. Of course people often do things that they sometimes regret.

I remember another story about the FOL reunion movie where Lisa said the after the first day of filming she called up Nancy and they had a chat/gossip session about whatever (since Nancy wasn't there of course). Later on Lisa said she couldn't sleep and seemed disappointed with herself that she slipped into old habits of gossiping and I guess, acting a bit like a school girl. She then vowed to not do that again. But yeah, not sure the point of that.

Hi guys, some very interesting reading in this thread. No need to apologize for arguably wondering off topic – threads often do that don’t they, they pick up a point and branch off.

It would be interesting to know what Lisa thinks these days about Blairs parts in the other episodes that involved sex given that she decided not to be in the episode with a focus on one of the main characters having sex.

As for Kirk Cameron I read a little bit about him on another thread and my memory of that is vague. According to that he became a Christian in his late teenage years or early twenties, demanded? huge changes with the show, tried to get a co-star fired who posed nude in play boy(or some such magazine) and was according to some - very in peoples faces about his beliefs. I’d like to have a bit of a look at that.

First of all we don’t know how much of that is true and how much isn’t. A person may say that they are a Christian but that dosen't necessarily mean that they are. In the thread I read about him it says he regrets some past actions. He may have been a young person new to that new direction in his life and over the top but he may be a very different person now.

In churches you can get leaders with some very legalistic teachings that can cause great problems and young Kirk may have been influenced by someone like that.
Over here in New Zealand in the 80’s the government went to legalize homosexuality. It was still illegal then and theoretically a man could I suppose have got a criminal record for having sex with another man. At the time I was a teenager going to church. There was a petition set up to keep it illegal. I signed the petition because I was young and if my memory serves correctly I signed because other older church goers signed it. I think there were about 3.5 million New Zealanders back then and around 1 million signatures were collected. Given the huge number of signatures the government probably should have in the least had a referendum on the matter but they ignored the petition and legalized homosexuality….and I am so glad they did. For church leaders to have wanted to keep homosexuality criminalized is in my opinion over the top. Yes the bible makes it perfectly clear that homosexuality is wrong but so are many other things that are not criminalized. Homosexual feelings rarely if ever are a choice and if two gay or lesbian people settle down together and keep there private life private I don’t see much harm to others being done by that. Like I said homosexual feelings rarely if ever are a choice so I don't see how keeping it criminalized would have been fair.

Quoting Matthew 22 verses 34-40:
“Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” ”
That was from the NIV.

Mistreating gay and lesbian people is not showing love to your neighbor. Kicking people in the guts is hardly an effective tool for reaching people.

We all make mistakes when we’re younger that hopefully we learn from.

Did Blair ever cuss? Any "D's" or "H's" or anything like that?

I would love to see "The First Time" at some point. I guess I will have to wait a while since FOL is no longer part of OnDemand. 7 more seasons to go before we see the final season on dvd :D