I read that in an episode in season 4 Jo punches Blair in the eye. It’s sad to read that. It’s annoying when writers do that. They develop a character as one thing, as pretty likeable and then bam, go and do something like that. They go and character assassinate the character like that.
Originally Posted by raya
Natalie when she took a course at Langley when she was still in HS and dissed everyone else. Jo when she became a Langley Regent and went off the deep end. Blair when, well...it's Blair and as cool as she is there are episodes where she's rather full of herself.
I don’t know what happened with Jo and Blair is rather full of herself but I usually find it amusing to watch. What happens there with Natalie, that’s sucks. The writers don’t have to do that sort of thing.
Is there anybody else that finds that sort of thing and annoying and would like to share?

I read that in an episode in season 4 Jo punches Blair in the eye. It’s sad to read that. It’s annoying when writers do that. They develop a character as one thing, as pretty likeable and then bam, go and do something like that. They go and character assassinate the character like that.

I don’t know what happened with Jo and Blair is rather full of herself but I usually find it amusing to watch. What happens there with Natalie, that’s sucks. The writers don’t have to do that sort of thing.
Is there anybody else that finds that sort of thing and annoying and would like to share?
Jo didn't give Blair a black-eye. She hit her in the jaw in that S4 ep. (I believe it's the one where Eve Plumb guest-starred in that 2-parter as Blair's sister). However, Blair did get a black-eye in S1 by Sue Ann who was in the middle of a fist fight with Cindy, but it was an accident.

I don't think any of the examples are character assissination. Just because these characters did a bad thing or two or acted unreasonable at times or nasty to each other every so often doesn't mean the characters are ruined. To me, rather it makes them human and real.

Heck, Jo and Natalie are my favorites but I fully understand and accept their were times I didn't agree with their actions. That didn't make them bad people even if some of their behavior sometimes was less than admirable. Same goes for Blair and Tootie.

I think in general its the sum of the parts that was important. For the most part, the four were good girls and good human beings, even if they had they had their off moments.

The Natalie episode I mentioned was where she was allowed to take some Langley course while still at Eastland. She started hanging with the Langley Students and selling out Blair and Jo by telling their classmates embarrasing stories about them. She also dissed Tootie and start failing her Eastland classes and basically acted too big for her britches.

Yes as human beings we make mistakes. Loosing her cool with Jo or Blair or Tootie is one thing and not ideal but for Natalie to treat her friends that other way is quite another.

As for Jo punching Blair. I’m amazed that the writer(s)/producer(s) did that. What say instead of the 4 girls there were 3 girls and one boy. Would they have allowed for the script to have the boy punch one of the girls? Jo is written as the athletic very physically capable one. If you’re stronger/more physically capable than someone else you don’t pick on them. You should be grateful for your strength/physical capabilities and at times maybe use it to help others who aren’t so strong/physically capable – not use your capability to abuse others. The same goes for verbal capabilities.

From what I’ve seen of Jo and Natalie I don’t think they’d do what they had them do, I don’t think it was in their character. The writers wrote the characters of Jo, Natalie, Blair and Tootie – flaws and all and we as viewers got to like some/all of the girls. Then they turn around and have Jo and Natalie do something that I don’t think was in their character. The writer(s) got us to like some/all of the girls because of how they wrote them, then they turned round and character assassinated them. It’s a bit of a backhander. They give with one hand and then a couple of years later or so they slap ya with the other. They did the same thing in Xena.

But I’m not going to stop watching FOL because of it – there’s too much cool stuff I’d miss!

But the situation wasn't three girls and a boy and I don't think they would have ever had a boy hit one of the girls on the show. But Jo is a girl and it wasn't a premeditated thing where she was determined to pick on Blair because she knew she was bigger and stronger. It wasn't right, but it just sort of happened. It seemed more like an anger and heat of the moment type of thing.

It wasn't the only time Blair got popped one. She got a black eye in the first season too (not from Jo of course).

Same goes for Natalie. Yeah, she was crappy to her friends in that episode but she learned her lesson and the times she was good to her friends outweighed that.

But then again, whether these sort of things are out of character or not is going to be a personal choice for all of us.

Originally Posted by raya
But then again, whether these sort of things are out of character or not is going to be a personal choice for all of us.
That's true.

Jo punched Blair in "Best Sister" because she was upset and lost her temper. She acted without thinking. I don't think it is in anyway an "assassination of character". Jo is only human and made a mistake.

It was completely NOT out of character for Jo (or Natalie).

Jo---was kind of impulsive, and ALWAYS prone to acting tough (and violence). Besides, I think that Jo and Blair were equally capable of kicking the CRAP out of each other, Blair's just too worried about breaking a nail to do it (however, the paint fight episode...well, that's another story). So I don't think it's a matter of Jo being "stronger" than Blair. Personally, I'd have done the same thing, and I wouldn't really consider myself a "tomboy" or "tough." Blair deserved that punch in the jaw.

And as for Natalie---
Well, it's waaaay too easy in life for people to become full of themselves when they're complimented and told that they're very, very smart. And when that happens, unfortunately, people DON'T really care much about their friends. They just think they've become better than their friends.
And---real friends, of course, will remind them that they, too, are human and not hold it against them for being conceited for a while. It's really hard to walk the line between accepting and acknowledging compliments and letting them get to your head.

I am not surprised that Jo punched Blair in Season 4; my reaction is more, "What took her so long?"

Remember, Jo was threatening Blair with physical violence since her debut episode, though she never actually hit her. If Jo were really the street-wise, tough girl the writers made her out to be, physical violence at some point would have been keeping with the nature of her character.

Don't get me wrong: I am not suggesting Jo's physical violence is appropriate. I'm merely stating that fighting seems to be in keeping with the nature of Jo. On some day, her nemesis Blair was bound to push her too far, and that's the reaction the audience had been waiting for, for years.

What's less realistic, though, is Blair "forgiving and forgetting" this incident. In real life, I suspect Jo would have been charged with assault, and Blair and her well-to-do family would filed a lawsuit. Their friendship would have been over that day as well.

I'm not sure there would have been a charge of assault in the real world. There are often fights between friends/teenagers that sometimes get physical. Sure, if Daddy Warner wanted to get involved then maybe but Blair was also a rather proud person. I don't see her running off to tell her dad that Jo hit her.

Plus assault charges are much more a thing of the time we live in now where people get taken to court for everything. In the 80's, not quite so much.

Besides, while I wouldn't expect Blair to forget...there were three or four years of friendship prior to that moment. I kind of see them like sisters at that point. Was it right for Jo to hit her? No, it wasn't. Then again sometimes things like that happen between sisters and eventually you get over them. Maybe not forget exactly, but move on. There has to be a moment of assessing the relationship and seeing if it is worth it and I'm sure to both of them the friendship wound up being more important than one isolated incident that happened in the heat of the moment.

Maybe I was too harsh in my assessment, Raya. I mean, Blair and Jo did have roughly 4 years of friendship, prior to the incident. So, maybe Blair would be a little more tolerant. Then again, don't forget that in Season 6, Blair takes Jo to small claims court over a broken wristwatch.

I'm trying to gauge how I think someone like snobby Blair WOULD react. If Jo apologized and promised it would never happen again, perhaps I could envision Blair getting past it. About the only reaction I can certainly eliminate is Blair hitting her back. I'm fairly sure that WOULDN'T happen!

.


Originally Posted by raya
plus assault charges are much more a thing of the time we live in now where people get taken to court for everything. In the 80's not quite so much.

Exactly. I was picked on constantly in school and it never ocurred to me to threaten to sue them if they hit me. :lol:

Well it looks like I am out voted here. I was curious what others thought even if they didn't want to leave a post so I went back to my first post and tried to set up a poll but it dosen't look like that is possible. Does anyone know if it's possible to set up a poll at this stage in a thread. I don't think it is cos I had a fairly good look around.

I think it’s true to say that you may have a guy who uses his fists a lot but would never punch a woman unless in self defence or in defence of someone else. Jo may have been in fights in the Bronx but I don’t see her punching another girl who herself wasn’t a fighter. I think that if it was in her character to punch Blair then she would have done so in the first season. When Blair got in Jo’s face and laid her hand on her shoulder and said something like ‘when it comes to men, the only thing you can take from me is lessons’, I can see Jo possibly decking her then. But after that came about 3 or 4 years of friendship and lots of time spent away from an environment where physical fighting was more common. She may have in the beginning punched Blair but her character would have changed over the next few years and I think she would have been incapable of that punch.

As for punching someone in the heat of the moment. It’s unacceptable for a man to punch a woman in the heat of the moment unless it is in self defence or defence of another person. Likewise it is also unacceptable for a female in the heat of the moment, who’s very capable of fighting to punch another female who is not so capable of fighting. An understandable alternative for Jo might have been to give her a shove and get in her face and tell her ‘you’re my friend, I care about you but back off’. If that didn’t work then Jo could have left the building for a while and given them both some space and if that didn’t work then a last arguable alternative would be to physically restrain Blair and extract from her a guarantee to mind her own business. There is a world of difference between man handling someone and punching them. If you punch someone you make a definite choice to punch them it’s not something that just happens. If you punch someone it is a big deal, you cross a line. I remember when I was about 8 another girl punched me. (I deserved it but I say I deserved it because I certainly deserved some sort of response and giving a punch at 8 years old is a bit different than 18). I couldn’t bring myself to punch her back. I remember a few incidences in my school years after that where I could have let loose and beaten up 2 or 3 other girls but I couldn’t bring myself to physically hurt someone like that. No matter how angry you are it’s a choice to hit someone or not.

In my opinion Jo would not have punched Blair. I’m disappointed that they had that happen. People ARE influenced by television. There are so many standards that are slipping and I find that sad, but this was an easy one to get right and they dropped the ball……..that’s how I see it.

I just look at is as if role models make mistakes. The girls might have been role models, but they were also human. Human beings make mistakes. It's how you deal with your mistakes (to me anyway) that determines whether someone is a good role model or not.

I also think there is a world of difference between a guy hitting a girl and a girl hitting a girl. Not to mention, Blair might not be a fighter persay, but she's not really outsized by Jo. They are pretty much on level playing ground there.

Lastly, I would hazard to guess that if we got more of Jo's backstory, she's not really much of an actual fighter either--even prior to Eastland. Sure she can talk a good game and probably learned that as a means of defending herself back home, but even at the beginning I think her bark was worse than her bite. She might threaten to beat somebody up, but I think it's likely that Jo had seen few actual fights during her day.

Normally, it would be out of character for someone to hit someone else out of impulse, but in this case, Blair opened her mouth as usual and said for her to hit her in her mouth, Jo did just that!

BWAP!!!

That's what she gets for running her mouth to a certain point.

So, if you don't like that, then sue me!

Blair was actually both taller and heavier than Jo. Lisa Whelchel calls herself "vertically challenged" at 5'3". She says that the other girls (Mindy, Kim, and Jo) were shorter, but Blair always wore high heels, making her look much taller.

Remember the tough girl in the jail cell, whom Jo forces to give back Blair's wrist watch? Call me a realist, but I know that I'm watching fictional TV when I see situations like that! Jo was so much less physically inposing. That girl claimed to have been in jail for robbery and assault. (Recall her cracking her knuckles when saying that?) I just can't envision a girl like that backing down at Jo's tough talk.

It is no doubt true that some people can successfully intimidate others with a threatening voice and body language. Perhaps, Jo was one of those people, back in the Bronx, whose reputation for toughness preceeded her, meaning others usually backed down. Jo didn't often have to fight; she controlled others through intimidation. However, in Peekskill, it would seem to me that Jo would have to completely rebuild such a reputation, since no one knew her there.

Oh, and in the hypothetical fight between Jo and the big girl from the jail, put my money on the big girl. When Jo called her a blimp, that girl would have knocked her into next week! LOL

Normally, it would be out of character for someone to hit someone else out of impulse, but in this case, Blair opened her mouth as usual and said for her to hit her in her mouth, Jo did just that!

BWAP!!!

That's what she gets for running her mouth to a certain point.

So, if you don't like that, then sue me!
What's BWAP?

Blair was actually both taller and heavier than Jo. Lisa Whelchel calls herself "vertically challenged" at 5'3". She says that the other girls (Mindy, Kim, and Jo) were shorter, but Blair always wore high heels, making her look much taller.

Remember the tough girl in the jail cell, whom Jo forces to give back Blair's wrist watch? Call me a realist, but I know that I'm watching fictional TV when I see situations like that! Jo was so much less physically inposing. That girl claimed to have been in jail for robbery and assault. (Recall her cracking her knuckles when saying that?) I just can't envision a girl like that backing down at Jo's tough talk.

It is no doubt true that some people can successfully intimidate others with a threatening voice and body language. Perhaps, Jo was one of those people, back in the Bronx, whose reputation for toughness preceded her, meaning others usually backed down. Jo didn't often have to fight; she controlled others through intimidation. However, in Peekskill, it would seem to me that Jo would have to completely rebuild such a reputation, since no one knew her there.

Oh, and in the hypothetical fight between Jo and the big girl from the jail, put my money on the big girl. When Jo called her a blimp, that girl would have knocked her into next week! LOL

Lisa was taller than Nancy? Maybe at the beginning, but not later on. Then again, Lisa had a few years on her too. However, I never thought Lisa looked much taller than the others, even with the heels.

However Nancy is around 5'5 now and by the middle of the series she seemed taller (slightly) than the others.

I always think that scene in jail is funny too. I guess the point to be made is that Jo isn't intimidated by anyone, but yeah, someone booked for assault wouldn't be threatened by a skinny sixteen year old girl, no matter how tough she talked. The woman was practically twice her weight.

Then again, I laugh at the point that they would book a woman for robbery and assault and throw her into a jail cell with four young teens in the first place.

But anyway, I don't think that Jo's reputation preceeded her in the Bronx because she probably adopted that personality because of the influences around her. If that's the way all the kids were around her (the way we see her friend in that one episode) then that was the personality she'd adapt. If anything, it would be her survival and means of fitting in. She probably knew more girls like herself, or at least with similar attitudes.

At Eastland, Jo's personality and attitude sticks out like a sore thumb since none of the others have a similar type of upbringing. Somehow I think people at Eastland would be more intimidated by her than people back home.

Lisa was taller than Nancy? Maybe at the beginning, but not later on. Then again, Lisa had a few years on her too. However, I never thought Lisa looked much taller than the others, even with the heels.

However Nancy is around 5'5 now and by the middle of the series she seemed taller (slightly) than the others.








Nancy McKeon is 5'-6" tall. (Actually 5'-5.75" or 5'-5.80". Close to 5'-6" tall, technically.) And isn't Lisa Whelchel 5'-3" tall?

Lisa Whelchel makes this claim in her FOL book (page 39):

"At five feet three, I'm vertically challenged. The funny thing is that all the other girls on the show were even shorter, but Blair wore high heels all the time, so next to them she looked like a giant."

Lisa wrote that in 2001. The question is, is she referring to the first few seasons or the show's entire run? It's anyone's guess, since that's the extent of that topic.

What's BWAP?

A comic book-esque sound effect I made up...lol!

And a alternate for WHACK!!! :lol:

I SAW THIS EPISODE WHILE ME-TV HAD IT PRETTY RECENTLY IN CHICAGO, AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE EPISODE TO SEE HOW BLAIR WAS REALLY PUSHING JO'S BUTTONS. BLAIR WAS PRETTY HEATED UP HERSELF AND SAYING, IF THERE IS A GOD, THEN PROVE IT TO ME". JO SAYS, "I DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT." BLAIR KEPT EGGING HER ON AND JO SAID, "SHUT UP BLAIR!" BLAIR WOULDN'T LET UP, AND THEN JO PUNCHED HER. THE SCENE IS SOMETHING TO THAT AFFECT. I THOUGHT IT WAS FUNNY WHEN JO CAME BACK AND TOLD BLAIR THAT GOD WANTED HER TO HIT BLAIR. THAT IT WAS GOD'S WILL! I ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WAS QUITE FUNNY, AND REALISTICALLY, IT WASN'T OUT OF JO'S CHARACTER. I THOUGHT IT WAS MORE OUT OF BLAIR'S CHARACTER FOR QUESTIONING GOD'S EXISTANCE SO STRONGLY, SINCE I CAN'T RECALL ANYTHING PRIOR TO THIS MENTIONED.

ANYWAY-YOU CAN TAKE THE GIRL OUT OF THE BRONX, BUT NOT THE BRONX FROM THE GIRL-COMPLETLY:)

I SAW THIS EPISODE WHILE ME-TV HAD IT PRETTY RECENTLY IN CHICAGO, AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE EPISODE TO SEE HOW BLAIR WAS REALLY PUSHING JO'S BUTTONS. BLAIR WAS PRETTY HEATED UP HERSELF AND SAYING, IF THERE IS A GOD, THEN PROVE IT TO ME". JO SAYS, "I DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT." BLAIR KEPT EGGING HER ON AND JO SAID, "SHUT UP BLAIR!" BLAIR WOULDN'T LET UP, AND THEN JO PUNCHED HER. THE SCENE IS SOMETHING TO THAT AFFECT. I THOUGHT IT WAS FUNNY WHEN JO CAME BACK AND TOLD BLAIR THAT GOD WANTED HER TO HIT BLAIR. THAT IT WAS GOD'S WILL! I ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WAS QUITE FUNNY, AND REALISTICALLY, IT WASN'T OUT OF JO'S CHARACTER. I THOUGHT IT WAS MORE OUT OF BLAIR'S CHARACTER FOR QUESTIONING GOD'S EXISTANCE SO STRONGLY, SINCE I CAN'T RECALL ANYTHING PRIOR TO THIS MENTIONED.

ANYWAY-YOU CAN TAKE THE GIRL OUT OF THE BRONX, BUT NOT THE BRONX FROM THE GIRL-COMPLETLY:)

that was just priceless! :lol:

:quest: Wait a minute .... Lisa Whelchel in heels was taller than everybody. Nancy Mc Keon was 3 years younger and technically was playing a character 2 years older that her. So she was around 14 in 1980 playing a 16 year old so its possoble of a growth spurt in that time correct? because Nancy is right under 5'6 and Lisa is 5'3 so in heels she looked like she towered everybody but in reality she did not.:dizzy:

I always thought BLAIR & JO were about the same height? (they look so at the "tv land awards 2011")& NAT too, but TOOTIE + MRS. G looked a bit shorter than the rest.....
The girl s ages through the show are:
SEASON 1 (14-15 for BLAIR, 12 NAT & 11 TOOTIE)
SEASON 2 (15-16 BLAIR + JO, 13 NAT & 12 TOOTIE)
SEASON 3 (16-17 BLAIR + JO, 14 NAT & 13 TOOTIE)
SEASON 4 (17-18 BLAIR + JO, 15 NAT & 14 TOOTIE)
SEASON 5 (18-19 BLAIR + JO, 16 NAT & 15 TOOTIE)
SEASON 6 (19-20 BLAIR + JO, 17 NAT & 16 TOOTIE)
SEASON 7 (20-21 BLAIR + JO, 18 NAT & 17 TOOTIE)
SEASON 8 (21-22 BLAIR + JO, 19 NAT & 18 TOOTIE)
SEASON 9 (22-23 BLAIR + JO, 20 NAT & 19 TOOTIE)

I love Jo but Jo has always been an angry violent person. It's part of her character. I don't agree with her striking Blair nor do i think that it was justifiable, Blair could have had Jo put in jail or expelled.

I detest this episode of Jo wanting to be a nun and hitting Blair. In fact, I no longer watch it. When I watch season 4 I skip that episode. What a dud of a story, and I cannot believe that Linda and Margie, given their excellent scripts and character truth in so many other episodes, wrote this clunker.


The girl s ages through the show are:
SEASON 1 (14-15 for BLAIR, 12 NAT & 11 TOOTIE)
SEASON 2 (15-16 BLAIR + JO, 13 NAT & 12 TOOTIE)

This is incorrect. Tootie is 12 years old for two years. It's physical impossible, but in TV Land (the place, not the channel, lol) she is 12 years old in season 1, and 12 years old in season 2. Pretty convenient for the writers to keep her the youngest, lol.