Greetings,

I was sufing the Net and came across this interesting little link on the Mystery Staircase at Loretto Chapel in Santa Fe, NM.

It was constructed by an unknown carpenter and had exactly 33 steps, the same number of years Jesus Christ was said to have been on this Earth.

Anyone may find this interesting:

http://www.theoutlaws.com/unexplained4.htm

Cheers,

greatgarrett2

I ran across a couple of articles about the stair case. One about it's construction. I'm not as certain about the miracle properties of the stairs myself, and apparently neither is this author.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_n6_v22/ai_21275520

And then another article about the unknown carpenter, whose identity may have been known.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_5_24/ai_67691830

For anyone who's interested.

That's a cute segment. But come on, that 33 steps aspect is wildly overblown. It's like the final combined score of a football game. You know it's going to be somewhere in the norm, not 3 points scored or 200. In the 30 to 50 range much more often than not.

Identical application to that staircase. What are we talking about, two stories? That pretty much narrows down the permutations. You're not going to have 300 tiny meandering steps or three steps requiring two high jumps. Stairs are very uniform in dimension. The carpenter probably had a normal range of something like 28 to 38 steps depending on the exact height he made them, plus the scope of the staircase, and it fell on the mid and most likely number of 33. Big deal. It was probably a 25% chance of exactly 33 steps given the necessary height of the staircase, so hardly a biblical miracle.

Besides, why was Jesus' supposed age the reference point? Because it was a convenient backfit, that's why. Let's say it had been 36 steps. Do you think someone might have found a biblical reference to the number 36 and claimed miraculous coincidence, and ignored the age aspect? I'd love to bet yes.

It reminds me of some of these psychic detective programs. Now, I don't discount the potential benefit of psychics. But they have every built in advantage in the rationalization of a case and what they said. For example, there's one case where the woman psychic proposed a number like 3 was important to the case, and when the body was found the detective was all amazed and said something like, "Well, it was three miles from the turnoff where we located the body, so that's where the 3 came in. She got it right again." I hit the floor in a seizure of laughter.

I just watched this segment. I will admit I have a soft spot for it especially compared to the other "miracle" segments because it does have a good story. I do find it ironic that the sisters believe a messenger from god built the stairs to answer their prayer(which is fine by me), but find it a bit ironic that when the carpenter comes with a decent claim that his grandfather built the stairs, they suggest he could be a fraud and want more proof.

I just watched this segment. I will admit I have a soft spot for it especially compared to the other "miracle" segments because it does have a good story. I do find it ironic that the sisters believe a messenger from god built the stairs to answer their prayer(which is fine by me), but find it a bit ironic that when the carpenter comes with a decent claim that his grandfather built the stairs, they suggest he could be a fraud and want more proof.

Ha! I watched this segment on Prime last week for the first time in forever and that was my exact reaction. It's actually an interesting story. But I found it funny how quickly the sisters wrote off the carpenter's claim about his grandfather. I got the sense they wanted to share their story but they don't want the mystery solved.

I watched this again and never realized the amazing coincidence....It was actually Brushy Bill Roberts, AKA Billy the Kid, who built the staircase! A man of many talents. HAHA!

I didn't remember this thread. I was shocked to see that I posted in this thread.

I'm very impressed with my post.

Ha! I watched this segment on Prime last week for the first time in forever and that was my exact reaction. It's actually an interesting story. But I found it funny how quickly the sisters wrote off the carpenter's claim about his grandfather. I got the sense they wanted to share their story but they don't want the mystery solved.

The story is cute, but I remember even when we first watched it as a family - and my family is all Catholic, went to Catholic schools, etc. - that it was a little silly. The segment takes all this time to suggest that perhaps the staircase was built by some kind of miraculous event, even maybe an angel in mortal disguise here just to build this staircase... or it could be this guy who lived one town over and built a nearly identical staircase over in Europe.

Gee, I wonder which it is?

I remember visiting this place during my Southwestern Sampler in 2006. There was a sign out front that read "As seen on Unsolved Mysteries." I also recall you could buy a small container of holy water, but I don't recall how much it cost. FWIW.

Last week, I had a sink full of dirty dishes. I kept hoping they would go away, but they didn't. In fact, the pile got bigger.

After praying about it all weekend, my prayers were answered. A woman appeared who said she could make it all go away. She worked for hours and before I knew it, my sink was clean. I cried tears of joy...

The woman never said her name. But she did look a lot like my wife.

Last week, I had a sink full of dirty dishes. I kept hoping they would go away, but they didn't. In fact, the pile got bigger.



You're not the moderator of The Charley Project by any chance?

I gotta say, I typically hate stories like this (miracles, lost loves, psychics, etc). However, this one was touching. I liked it. I'm not religious by any means, and I consider myself a serious skeptic, but this was a nice story.

And to everyone who's saying the nuns are crazy for denying the man's claims, I don't blame them. If some guy randomly showed up and said "my grandfather did this" without proof then I'd be skeptical too. You'd have to wonder how many people came in over the years who claimed them, or someone they knew built the stairs. I'm sure it was a lot. I understand they wanted the more "miracle" or "religious" twist to the story, but they're not wrong for not believing someone with no solid proof.

Whoopie Goldberg should've slid down the stair railing on Sister Act. Party on, Sisters.

I watched this again and never realized the amazing coincidence....It was actually Brushy Bill Roberts, AKA Billy the Kid, who built the staircase! A man of many talents. HAHA!

:lol: I just watched this segment today for the first time in ages and was quite surprised to notice it was the same actor.

"I didn't get these scars building no mystery staircase."

I find it hard to believe that the church didn't keep better records as to the carpenter that built something very crucial to the function of the church. I mean we're not talking about something minor like replacing a broken window, but a major addition. The church has been known to have amazing record-keeping skills.

I couldn't understand why this segment was made and what the mystery is. Maybe it's because of knowing my Grandfather: with only an 8th grade education and no formal carpentry or construction training he managed to build an entire house by himself without any sophisticated tools or blueprints and some of his designs were nothing short of genius. Some people like him have amazing carpentry skills: no supernatural explanation required.

Pretty sure that the segment had convincing evidence that the guy who built it was a European immigrant who traveled through the west as a carpenter, and that there really wasn't a mystery involved.

Its a cool happenstance, but nothing more. Its funny how we try to see Christianity symbols in everyday life- only because we live in America and Speak English. If we lived in India we could be Hindi - or Islamic

I gotta say, I typically hate stories like this (miracles, lost loves, psychics, etc). However, this one was touching. I liked it. I'm not religious by any means, and I consider myself a serious skeptic, but this was a nice story.

And to everyone who's saying the nuns are crazy for denying the man's claims, I don't blame them. If some guy randomly showed up and said "my grandfather did this" without proof then I'd be skeptical too. You'd have to wonder how many people came in over the years who claimed them, or someone they knew built the stairs. I'm sure it was a lot. I understand they wanted the more "miracle" or "religious" twist to the story, but they're not wrong for not believing someone with no solid proof.

Whoopie Goldberg should've slid down the stair railing on Sister Act. Party on, Sisters.

Bumping this as I just watched a cool podcast about the stairway. Apparently Mary Jean cook, a historian that was connected to the original segment, solved the mystery a while ago. She found substantial evidence that includes a new mexico newspaper article that proved a French immigrant that lived in New Mexico was the builder and received $150 payment for the work. She also proved that all of the material was shipped from France and even met with French suppliers who were carpenters and had knowledge of the type of carpentry. So this had to have been coordinated from a business standpoint.

It’s still a notable segment from the show because of the history. Instead of dwelling on the miracle angle, I am amazed by the diverse migration that took place in our country in those days.

the miracle theory and even the answered prayer angle doesn’t age well imo. I kind of agree with what you said here about the sisters being on point for not believing the claim from the person that was mentioned in the segment. it's rather convenient that he lost all of the evidence that could have linked his grandfather. But I will point out the hypocrisy that they believed an alleged miracle (with no proof) was the answer to their prayer, if there ever was a prayer in the first place. The sisters were sincere in their belief, yet some of the story could have been fabricated to perpetuate their religion.

I think you have to pay an entry fee to visit the chapel now as it has been converted to an inn. I plan to go there one day.

Apparently there’s a follow on mystery now related to the builder. He allegedly committed suicide at age 51, but on his grave it says that he was gunned down.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8401944/francois-jean-rochas

Interesting update. The guy was identified back in 1895 as the builder of the staircase. How that slipped by UM's researchers is anyone's guess.

UM was always looking for nice, feel good stories. A lot of "don't let facts get in the way of a good story" was the rule at UM.

Interesting update. The guy was identified back in 1895 as the builder of the staircase. How that slipped by UM's researchers is anyone's guess.

yeah it is also interesting that this has been solved for quite some time by the local historian that was featured in the segment, yet the update was not brought to the forefront.

I'm on the fence as to François Jean Rochas being the builder, an old newspaper article sounds reliable until you realize what they would print in newspapers then (or now for that matter).

Even if he was the builder, there is still something miraculous in his appearance at the chapel looking for work after the sisters prayed for a solution.

I'm on the fence as to François Jean Rochas being the builder, an old newspaper article sounds reliable until you realize what they would print in newspapers then (or now for that matter).

Even if he was the builder, there is still something miraculous in his appearance at the chapel looking for work after the sisters prayed for a solution.

There is a fair amount of evidence in addition to the article which substantiates that he was the builder. Credit given to Mary Cook who was the historian(featured in the segment) that did a lot of research after the segment aired. she is the one who deserves a lot of credit for investing a lot of time to find the truth behind the stairway.

The miracle claim now seems less likely and perhaps originated from the ignorance of how the stairway could be built as it was foreign to our architecture capability.


Anyone who is a fan of this segment should watch this video. I would watch the whole thing, but if you want the new information that was uncovered by mary cook, you should skip to the 32:40 min mark. It appears that the newspaper article was the first evidence that she found in 1995. she did a lot more research after that to substantiate the builder.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7uzo3veTcs