I only saw this episode once before and I know people have commented, but I saw this episode again today and I can't believe how casually they treat the wife-beating part. Even after Rob & Laura find out they still want him to see Sally or Laura's cousin again. I am surprised that they even keep this episode in the rotation.

Even after Rob & Laura find out they still want him to see Sally or Laura's cousin again.
Untrue. R&L only find out about Arthur having hit his wives in the last act....with both Rob & Laura quite upset and shocked by this news (with Rob even bolting the door after Arthur leaves).

R&L never suggest that Donna or Sally ever see Arthur again after that.

I didn't get that impression. Laura asks Arthur about both women in a way that seems as if she still wants to know if he could possibly see them again. They even play hit each other and say that's a way to show they love someone. I really can't believe that they would even do this episode even back in the 1960s.

Untrue. R&L only find out about Arthur having hit his wives in the last act....with both Rob & Laura quite upset and shocked by this news (with Rob even bolting the door after Arthur leaves).

R&L never suggest that Donna or Sally ever see Arthur again after that.


I didn't get that impression. Laura asks Arthur about both women in a way that seems as if she still wants to know if he could possibly see them again. They even play hit each other and say that's a way to show they love someone. I really can't believe that they would even do this episode even back in the 1960s.

Laura asks Arthur about both women in a way that seems as if she still wants to know if he could possibly see them again.
Well, come to think of it, I guess you're right. Laura, sheepishly, asks Arthur if he likes either girl well enough to {hit} or take out again. I'd forgotten that line until thinking about it again just now.

The Dick Van Dyke Show is not the only show to make light of domestic violence. "I Love Lucy" treats it lightly as does "The Andy Griffith Show." I'm sure there are others from that era that do the same. Thankfully, we are more enlightened now.

Lolac
:wave:

I'll admit it's disturbing how they deal with that issue of wife-beating, but I have to confess I still watch this episode because it has some of the funniest dialogue and delivery I've ever heard in a Van Dyke episode. Rob's "Honey, I haven't *got* a hobby shop!" and then later, "Oh no, we always have a little coffee and cake before dinner." always manage to put me on the floor.

I think this episode is slightly jarring when you first see it because it's an unespected intrusion
of a real life problem into the sitcom world of Rob and Laura. And maybe it was a bad idea. But
Rob and Laura are shocked. Heck, watch again as Rob locks the door after he leaves and the shocked "can you believe that guy" look on his face. Laura
is even upset when he says he's divorced and begins mopping spilled coffee with her cake! And her line asking him about like them well enough to
(hit) take either of them out again is more like
sarcasm and fear than wanting him to ask them. Rob and Laura are probably the nicest and most loving
couple ever on tv. And it's nice to see. Maybe things are different today for the worse. Ralph
never did send Alice to the moon, and if the threat was ever even glimpsed as being real we
would have hated him. But nowadays even a good
show like Everybody Loves Raymond can show one
spouse dumping food on another, pushing in anger,
and just generally being hateful is seen by most
as funny and okay. That's when I miss Rob and Laura most. I'd much rather see their playful
punching and hugging. They're nicer people and
better role models for all of us.

But nowadays even a good
show like Everybody Loves Raymond can show one
spouse dumping food on another, pushing in anger,
and just generally being hateful is seen by most
as funny and okay. That's when I miss Rob and Laura most. I'd much rather see their playful
punching and hugging. They're nicer people and
better role models for all of us.


I agree. Spouses on TV now just verbally abuse each other to the point that it's predictable and old. There isn't much mutual respect to be found in that (or enlightenment, either...)
I suppose good writers are hard to find.

I agree. Spouses on TV now just verbally abuse each other to the point that it's predictable and old. There isn't much mutual respect to be found in that (or enlightenment, either...)
I suppose good writers are hard to find.


That's it in a nutshell....good writing. When you compare even the most lightweight show of early television, especially the sixties, to anything written today you understand exactly what is lacking in television today. Today's sitcoms writers can put together more than two minutes of entertainment. The only exception in recent years, I believe, was Frasier. The rest are one joke shows.

"The Dick Van Dyke Show is not the only show to make light of domestic violence. "I Love Lucy" treats it lightly as does "The Andy Griffith Show." I'm sure there are others from that era that do the same. Thankfully, we are more enlightened now. "

Lolac, I'm not that familiar with The Andy Griffith Show. Which ones do you think made light of domestic violence?

BW

Remember the show where that couple was throwing stuff at each other, Andy tried to step in and teach them to behave..

I remember an episode of Gidget about a Swedish exchange student. She was very prim and studious. Gidget introduced her to the California teenage lifestyle and she went for it big time. When her older fiance came to visit, he was apalled to see how selfish, stubborn, silly, and vain she had gotten. He put her over his knee and spanked her! That one really apalled me.

I remember an episode of Gidget about a Swedish exchange student. She was very prim and studious. Gidget introduced her to the California teenage lifestyle and she went for it big time. When her older fiance came to visit, he was apalled to see how selfish, stubborn, silly, and vain she had gotten. He put her over his knee and spanked her! That one really apalled me.

That was a common, very accepted part of sitcoms and old movies back then....spanking the lead female. I don;t know of anyone who actually did that though, THANK HEAVEN!

Spanking the lead female. I'd forgotten that schtick of classic sitcom. It was always done as a comical closing to the show or a scene in a show by someone who loved her, or at least liked her, and usually after the female had been pretty obnoxious throughout.
Frankly, I think it was funny, in a sitcommy sort of way. And I'm by no means a sexist (at least I've not been called one yet). I mean, today we laugh when a female kicks a man in the groin in an action movie or TV show (something they never show back then). No one seems to think it out of line or sexists in any way.
My two cents.

Steve

I agree with you, Steve. Like when Ricky would occasionally spank Lucy. That didn't bother me cuz it fit in with the wackiness of the show. The Gidget one bugged me cuz IIRC, it wasn't done with much humor IMO, plus it was mid-60s rather than mid-50s, and the spanker was only her fiance! Not that a hubby has a "right" to spank his wife, but in any case, the stern fiance spanking his wayward girlfriend bothered me. It could also do with the fact this was the only appearance of these characters and the fiance was thoroughly unlikeable throughout the episode, whereas we got to know Lucy and Ricky quite well.

Spanking the lead female. I'd forgotten that schtick of classic sitcom. It was always done as a comical closing to the show or a scene in a show by someone who loved her, or at least liked her, and usually after the female had been pretty obnoxious throughout.
Frankly, I think it was funny, in a sitcommy sort of way. And I'm by no means a sexist (at least I've not been called one yet). I mean, today we laugh when a female kicks a man in the groin in an action movie or TV show (something they never show back then). No one seems to think it out of line or sexists in any way.
My two cents.

Steve

Very true observations. Thinking back it was a funny, love-based thing. I can't think of anyone who took it as abusive, or even today when they show the reruns or old movies, who thinks it was abusive. Maybe silly, but I can tell you that silly is good in a marriage ...but never hitting.

I agree with you, Steve. Like when Ricky would occasionally spank Lucy. That didn't bother me cuz it fit in with the wackiness of the show. The Gidget one bugged me cuz IIRC, it wasn't done with much humor IMO, plus it was mid-60s rather than mid-50s, and the spanker was only her fiance! Not that a hubby has a "right" to spank his wife, but in any case, the stern fiance spanking his wayward girlfriend bothered me. It could also do with the fact this was the only appearance of these characters and the fiance was thoroughly unlikeable throughout the episode, whereas we got to know Lucy and Ricky quite well.
I see your point, OctoberEve.
If we don't know the characters as well, it does lend an air of "masculine privilege" to the act, and detracts from the humor somewhat, especially by today's standards.
I can tell you that silly is good in a marriage ...but never hitting.
Amen to that, BWLuv.
I could never even imagine hitting my wonderful wife, even when she's not being so wonderful. And it has nothing to do with the fact that her brother is a retired pro boxer :smash: !

Steve

...that this was the first episode written by the very talented team of Garry Marshall & Jerry Belson.....and apparently, Carl Reiner wanted such an "offbeat" episode as this one. Even WITH a "spanking" delivered by Rob at the end! (HE'D NEVER WRITE SUCH AN UNSYMPATHETIC GESTURE AS THAT!)

;)

I've often thought when seeing an adult female being spanked by a man, in old sit-coms, that it reduced her to the level of a child and the man is punishing her like a child. Especially on those I Love Lucy episodes where it was done a few times. Women must have been put in the same category as children back then, because they held no positions of authority in the story line, they held no power in the relationship with the man, and they were laughed at and patronized like children. Looking at the credits rolling by at the end and you could see there were rarely any women's names listed as producers, directors, or writers.

...a "child" to "Ricky's" 'daddy figure'. Jess Oppenheimer, the co-creator and head writer of "I LOVE LUCY", used to write for Fanny Brice on radio, specifically for her "Baby Snooks" character, who was supposed to be a child...but could be a devious wise--- at times, therby earning an occasional spanking from her "Daddy". "Lucy" wasn't that different. If "Ricky" really got mad at her, he WOULD spank her....but this was slapstick comedy with roots in real-life situations.....mostly exaggeration. And not to be taken TOO seriously, 'cablejockey'. Remember, there WAS a female writer on the "LUCY" staff, and I don't think Madelyn Pugh objected to those moments when "Lucy" was going to be spanked- SHE knew it was an exaggerated gesture.

In the case of that episode of "THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW", remember that exaggeration was Garry Marshall & Jerry Belson's stock-in-trade when they wrote scripts for the show [and yes, they eventually wrote for Lucille Ball as well]. If they felt that "Rob" had to make a point with "Laura" about butting into other people's affairs by spanking her, they had every right to make that point...because this WAS an exaggerated moment.

Baby Snooks aside, Lucy was Ricky's wife, not his daughter. If 'punishment' was to be meted out---and that's another entire discussion--why use the method of spanking? Universally known as a parent to child punishment, or for those in the kinky zone, this 'smacks' of a whole lop sided relationship where the husband is treating his wife like a child---not making a point because she did something the husband felt he had a right to punish.

Go back to the Honeymooners in the 50s. That was the culture way back then. Wifes were treated like children to be taken care of by the husband,
It must have seemed natural then to spank your wife. I mean there was never any harm done except some embarrasment to the scolded wife

Oh I know it was part of the culture back in the 50s. But I am standing here in 2006 and commenting on it. I am so glad that attitudes have changed on what's considered funny on sit-coms.

Agreed. Many of todays sitcoms seem to show single parent families or some type of disfunctional family. Maybe 20 yrs from now, we wont think that is so funny when we look back.