Hi - this is a repeat of a thread I wrote earlier tonight because I didn't know how to start a new thread....

Does anyone know what happened to the older man from Wisconsin who was murdered and his car was found burning in a rest stop somewhere between Wisconsin and Washington? His body was later found in a garbage dumping area. There was a pick up truck with a creepy guy in it that was spotted by a rest stop worker before the Wisc man disappeared and his car was found burning.

Any info would be helpful....Thanks

I live in Montana (where the man's body was found) and my boyfriend is from Glendive, which is near where the man's body was found. I asked him about this case a few weeks ago, and to the best of his (and my) knowledge, there have been no updates on this case.

I live in Montana (where the man's body was found) and my boyfriend is from Glendive, which is near where the man's body was found. I asked him about this case a few weeks ago, and to the best of his (and my) knowledge, there have been no updates on this case.
Thanks Ricci - If you hear anything, keep us posted.

Does anyone know what happened to the older man from Wisconsin who was murdered and his car was found burning in a rest stop somewhere between Wisconsin and Washington? His body was later found in a garbage dumping area.

You got the title of your thread wrong. He was driving from Oregon to Wisconsin.

By the way, the murder victim's name was Dexter Stefonek.

Just watched this one again. I am convinced that the man that killed Dexter is a serial killer. I think the authorities should have searched for the truck. They should have checked the registration database in Arizona. I am surprised that didnt happen. Or maybe it did and they just didnt say it. I am originally from Dickinson, North Dakota before I moved to Minnesota so Dawson County and Glendive isnt an extremely long way away from Dickinson. I would say Dickinson is probably two and a half to three hours away from Glendive. Dexter I think pulled into the rest stop. This was before the caretaker arrived so sometime before 8 in the morning. The guy was probably there when Dexter got there. I dont know if the guy was out of gas or just looking for someone to kill or what. I am thinking the guy might have been a traveling salesman or had to travel for his job. What is really bizarre is how he not only killed Dexter and burned the car but also how he didnt dump Dexters other possessions until months later and how he took them to the same location the body was to dump them. That also tells me he was familiar with the area to dump them there. Also how he taunted the cops with the message in the rest stop. Clearly he wanted all this stuff to be found. He enjoyed taunting the cops and he was basically saying catch me if you can. I am convinced the guy that killed Dexter is a serial killer. I am trying to think of who it might be. I just think the guy was familiar with rural Montana because of his knowledge of the very remote dump site. I dont know if maybe he worked in the oil fields out there or what. Because of the Arizona plates that is what makes me think that he maybe was a traveling salesman or obviously had some kind of required travel for his job. It does tell me he goes to Montana or through Montana several times a year if he came back to dump Dexter's stuff.

I just watched this case on crystaldawn's DVDs volume 2. There's something "off" about this one, and I can't quite put my finger on it. kadrmas15's suggestion that it was a serial killer certainly seems to be the conclusion that would make the most sense, but there is a lot that is unusual about this one.

For those who haven't seen it in awhile, a brief summary: a depressed old man named Dexter Stefonek is out in Oregon basically living with his son, but as the first anniversary of his wife's death approaches, he longs to return home to Wisconsin. One day, in the middle of winter, he begins the 2,000 mile journey. The next evidence found of the man is his car, burning at a rest stop. He is not inside. Witnesses at the rest stop include its caretaker and a highway maintenance worker. When the caretaker arrived, a white truck with green trim and Arizona plates was parked in the rest stop area. There was no one around. This was around 8 AM. Next, a highway worker stopped into the rest stop, and he too saw the truck, but now Dexter Stefonek's car is present. Again, there is no sign of the old man, but there is a younger man carrying what appear to be two milk jugs of gasoline. He explains to the highway worker that he ran out of gas. The next thing eyewitnesses report is Dexter's car ablaze, with the white truck nowhere to be found.

Three months later, at a remote dump site some distance away from the rest stop, some of Dexter's belgonings are found scattered about, including his driver's license and a suitcase with money in it. Eventually, underneath an old mattress, Dexter himself is found. Dexter is thought to have been dead and in the location for the previous three months (based on the level of decomposition, no doubt), but his belongings, according to the people who regularly looked after the dump site, were not there until the week they were discovered.

This leads to the important question: where were Dexter Stefonek's belongings during the three "missing" months? And why had the killer come back to dump them so long after the murder, but without having taken money that was in the suitcase, despite having held on to the suitcase for three months?

These are the questions Stack rhetorically asks, of course, but I think there are simpler answers than the segment makes out. What makes the most sense is that everything (the body and Dexter's belongings) were dumped at the same time, buried under a pile of other junk. Someone came along and began to pick through the dump, pulling out and finding the various items, before finally coming across Dexter's body. This person got scared and left without notifying authorities (probably because he was illegally at the dump site), scattering some of the stuff he had picked through in the process. Perhaps it was further scattered by stiff plains winds.

What does not make sense to me, however, is what the killer was doing precisely. Why would he evidently wait in a rest stop for somebody, commandeer his car, drive it off somewhere, murder its original occupant and dump his body and belongings, then come back and switch back to his original car, burning the hijacked car in the process? Robbery was not a motive, because the suit case had not been picked through enough to discover the money that was inside it. If the killer truly was out of gas (quite possible), what would drive him to kill somebody just to get control of his vehicle long enough to go get gas?

What bothers me is the motive seems so trivial, and the resulting cover-up of the crime so necessarily elaborate, and all for what? It almost makes me wonder if Dexter was followed from some location for some reason, until he pulled over into the rest stop. Perhaps road rage, an incident out on the highway? It just doesn't make much sense to kill the first guy wo comes along, then go to all that trouble to dump the body and burn the car, over MAYBE getting a little gasoline. There was no sex crime here, from what the segment gave to us as details, so the motive is truly obscure.

There is a guy who is trying to spend 1 night at that same rest stop as part of a bet, and who is a poster of this forum, or am I dreaming?, but I´m sure someone mentioned that. In any case, Do you think Stefonek´s murder was somehow related to the Blind River Rest Stop murders? Just a thought.

There is a guy who is trying to spend 1 night at that same rest stop as part of a bet, and who is a poster of this forum, or am I dreaming?, but I´m sure someone mentioned that. In any case, Do you think Stefonek´s murder was somehow related to the Blind River Rest Stop murders? Just a thought.

Anything's possible, of course, but absent any physical evidence positively linking them, I'd have to say the chances that the two murders are related aren't very good.

Hey Mozart and Phillipscurve, interesting theories from both of you. This case is so very sad indeed. I actually found Phillipscurve theory that Dexter Stefonek's murder may be related to the blind river rest stop murder to be interesting.

It certainly is possible, since Stefonek's murder occured in 1985 the guy that did it wasnt caught and could have done the blind river one. But of course the weapons were different in the two cases and in my opinion the motive in the blind river rest stop murder appeared to be a combination of robbery and a guy that liked to kill.

I agree with Mozart that Stefonek's murder is just bizarre. You have a small, elderly man driving alone and in my opinion from what they said on UM, it seemed his murder was a killing of anger and rage and hate. If I remember right, Dexter was not only shot twice in the head but was beaten before he died.

Mozart, you raised a very interesting point that I had never considered before or even thought of but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. As far as we know, no one actually saw Dexter Stefonek at the rest stop right? The killer pulled up there in his car presumebly after he had beaten and murdered Dexter. Your theory Mozart, raises the interesting possibility that Dexter did not just suddenly meet up at the rest area and have his fatal rendevous with the killer.

As you said it is entirely possible that Dexter perhaps had got into a road rage incident where he ticked another driver that being his murderer off and that the killer either followed Dexter until he stopped at the rest stop and either intentionally planning the whole time to kill Dexter or when they got to the rest stop him and Dexter got into an argument or he felt like Dexter was blowing off when trying to get his attention so he first took him hostage, took him presumably to the dump site or some other area and beat and killed him.

In my opinion it is possible that Dexter first had an interaction with the killer on the roadway, after going through Billings, Montana. Interstate 90 connects in Billings and if you were driving up from Arizona you would likely go that way until 90 connects with Interstate 94 in Billings if the killer was going to Eastern Montana, which in my opinion he was, this route would make sense. AT some point he crossed paths with Stefonek either on the Interstate 94 between Billings and the rest stop or he met him at the rest stop.

In my opinion, Dexter was not abducted until he reached the rest stop but the killer could have been following him all the way from Billings. In my opinion, it is possible that the killer was a rancher or worked at a ranch and was living in Arizona but was originally from eastern Montana. The reason I think of the possibility of the killer being a rancher is that cow catcher on the front of his car. It is just still my opinion that the man who murdered Dexter had murdered before or at least had assaulted people before. He probably has murdered and assaulted people since then.

I follow what UM said that the car being burned was done for two purposes, one to destroy evidence and two to distract the police so that he could make a clean get away. The truck was rather unique looking so he wanted to get out of there like a bat out of you know where I am sure.

In my opinion the killer was from that area or had lived in that area at one time, or at least traveled through it a lot because he was familiar with the area and the remote dumpsite. I dont know what to think of Dexter's things thrown around. I think it is possible someone doing some illegal dumping there found the stuff and was taking the opportunity to steal some things but when they found the body they freaked and ran off and they didnt call the cops because as Mozart said they didnt want to get in trouble for illegal dumping but also probably they were afraid they might be viewed as the murderer. I also believe it is possible that the killer returned to the dump site when he made another trip to Montana and decided to check to see if Dexter was still there and maybe he wanted the body to be found even and also take some things as souvieners of his killing

I am going to contact the Dawson County Sheriff's Department to see what if anything has gone on with the investigation since 1985 and see what results I get.

Interesting observations. I totally missed the cow catcher on his car...

What's REALLY interesting about your theory is that I could totally see the killer being someone from that area as well. Glendive is a pretty small close-knit community. I could totally see people "forgetting" what happened to Dexter in an effort to protect one of their own. Of course, I'm not alleging ANY sort of misconduct by the Dawson County Police Department, but stranger things have happened.

I also tend to think that Dexter's killer could have been a trucker and perhaps dumped Dexter's body at the time of the killing, but then kept his things with him for a period of time before he felt it safe to dump them. Perhaps he assumed Dexter's body would have been found by then and no one would have made a connection to the luggage/wallets. Just a thought.

What bothers me is the motive seems so trivial, and the resulting cover-up of the crime so necessarily elaborate, and all for what? It almost makes me wonder if Dexter was followed from some location for some reason, until he pulled over into the rest stop. Perhaps road rage, an incident out on the highway? It just doesn't make much sense to kill the first guy wo comes along, then go to all that trouble to dump the body and burn the car, over MAYBE getting a little gasoline. There was no sex crime here, from what the segment gave to us as details, so the motive is truly obscure.

This bothers me too. I might have mentioned it in one of Dexter's other threads in the past but what was the real reason for killing Dexter? My answer would be there is no real reason to actually kill him so most likely this falls into the serial killer or mentally insane bracket. Bit sad coz this makes for a great UM case at the expense of a defenceless old man.

There is a guy who is trying to spend 1 night at that same rest stop as part of a bet, and who is a poster of this forum, or am I dreaming?

omg:

LOL. Microeconomia... you ain't fooling anyone. :) We all know it's YOU that wants to camp out at the Bad Route Rest Area... :)

This is one of my all-time favorite segments, I would like to now if it ever made it to Lifetime?

To CRicci; since you have connections with that area, did you ever contact the Dawson County Police Dept to find out if there were any leads or if was in fact solved?

I guess I'm kinda hoping there's a "Bonnie Wilder twist" to this story; that it was solved, but that we just weren't told about it :)

What year did this happen?

Maybe Dexter was D.B. Cooper. Whoever stole the $$$ didn't keep it 'cause it could be traced.

There's my expert opinion!:crazy:


Three months later, at a remote dump site some distance away from the rest stop, some of Dexter's belgonings are found scattered about, including his driver's license and a suitcase with money in it. Eventually, underneath an old mattress, Dexter himself is found. Dexter is thought to have been dead and in the location for the previous three months (based on the level of decomposition, no doubt), but his belongings, according to the people who regularly looked after the dump site, were not there until the week they were discovered.

This leads to the important question: where were Dexter Stefonek's belongings during the three "missing" months? And why had the killer come back to dump them so long after the murder, but without having taken money that was in the suitcase, despite having held on to the suitcase for three months?

What year did this happen?

pretty sure this was 1985.

Yes it happened in November of 1985. As far as I know there are no updates to this case.

Yes. You have some excellent theories here. I think something is missing though. Do you recall on the segment when Robert stack said that a few months later another driver had an altercation with a truck on the freeway, and someone made a reference to Dexter's murder?! He was talking on a CB Radio and someone said that if he didn't watch out he'd be taken care of just like the old guy at the rest stop? And also writing about the murder on a bathroom stall. I think multiple persons know about this case, and are involved in it. I think for some reason Dexter was targeted, maybe he heard/saw something he shouldn't have and was a witness to a crime, and these persons killed him to keep him quiet. I don't think he was killed just so they could take his car, and I know he wasn't robbed since he had $$ in a case on him. I think your right though in saying he was followed, and the killer(s) teamed up on him. But his body wan't found until 3 months later, where was it in the 3 months that he was missing? I don't think it was there all along, or someone would have found it sooner, don't you think?

Do you recall on the segment when Robert stack said that a few months later another driver had an altercation with a truck on the freeway, and someone made a reference to Dexter's murder?! He was talking on a CB Radio and someone said that if he didn't watch out he'd be taken care of just like the old guy at the rest stop?

The threat you are referring to sounds like the one mentioned in the segment about Dwayne McCorkendale, the trucker who was shot to death at an Oklahoma rest stop in 1988.

I've just mentioned in the Glenn Consagra's thread that there were no pictures of the victims: Freddie and Mary Lou. In the segment of Dexter Stefonek's murder, UM did not present a composite sketch of the murderer, even though at the beginning of the segment Robert Stack mentioned that there is one composite sketch of the suspect. It would be interesting to compare this sketch(if there is such a sketch) with the one from the suspect in the case of the Blind River Rest Stop Killings. As I have mentioned before, in my opinion, the 2 cases can be related.

I've have just mentioned in the Glenn Consagra's thread that there were no pictures of the victims: Freddie and Mary Lou. In the segment of Dexter Stefonek's murder, UM did not present a composite sketch of the murderer, even though at the beginning of the segment Robert Stack mentioned that there is one composite sketch of the suspect. It would be interesting to compare this sketch(if there is such a sketch) with the one from the suspect in the case of the Blind River Rest Stop Killings. As I have mentioned before, in my opinion, the 2 cases can be related.

UM did present a composite sketch in the Dexter Stefonek-case, however, the description of the suspect was somewhat vague.

UM did present a composite sketch in the Dexter Stefonek-case, however, the description of the suspect was somewhat vague.
I don't remember a composite sketch....:confused:

While the police believe that Dexter's car was set on fire to create a diversion/destroy evidence, it would make more sense to me to leave it abandoned/untouched, because it would lead people to believe that Dexter had problems and wandered off, like they initially thought. Of course once they found him, that would show otherwise, but the killer could still get away.

I don't remember a composite sketch....:confused:



Maybe you're right. Strange, I must have seen that segment a million times plus it's one of my favorites. I could've sworn I saw a composite sketch of a man wearing a hood... Now I'm confused... :lol:

...It would be interesting to compare this sketch...[to the perpretrator]...of the Blind River Rest Stop Killings. As I have mentioned before, in my opinion, the 2 cases can be related.


How do you figure this??

The modus operandi for each case is dissimilar with the sole exception of each assault occurring at a rest stop. Unfortunately, that’s not a real valuable clue in tying these cases together because many varied assaults occur at rest stops. Rest stops, by their very nature, are often isolated locations where criminals can pick and choose from a parade of potential victims. In my opinion that’s where the similarity of these cases ends.

In fact I’m not entirely convinced Dexter Stefonek’s murderer was preying on the rest stop as a potential victim “hunting ground”, as I’m 100% positive the Blind River Rest Stop killer was.

I’d love to read your explanation on what leads you to believe these crimes were perpetrated by the same individual.

How do you figure this??

The modus operandi for each case is dissimilar with the sole exception of each assault occurring at a rest stop. Unfortunately, that’s not a real valuable clue in tying these cases together because many varied assaults occur at rest stops. Rest stops, by their very nature, are often isolated locations where criminals can pick and choose from a parade of potential victims. In my opinion that’s where the similarity of these cases ends.

In fact I’m not entirely convinced Dexter Stefonek’s murderer was preying on the rest stop as a potential victim “hunting ground”, as I’m 100% positive the Blind River Rest Stop killer was.

I’d love to read your explanation on what leads you to believe these crimes were perpetrated by the same individual.

It was only a "guess" motivated by the frustation that these two cases haven't been solved ( I thought that Ronald Glenn West was the perpetrator in the Blind River murders, but it was later confirmed that he wasn't). You are right, the only similarity between the two crimes
is that they were both committed at a rest stop, and that is really a very weak link between the two cases. Also Dexter Stefonek's murder was committed in 1985 and the Blind River murders in 1991, nearly 6 years after Mr. Stefonek tragic death.

Finally, the 3D image of the perpetrator of the Blind River murders is unforgettable. In contrast there isn't any composite sketch of the murderer of Dexter Stefonek (at least no sketch was presented during the UM segment) and there were at least 2 people who had a very good look of the perpetrator. That is a very significant contrast between these 2 "similar" cases, and, since there is no sketch of the individual in the latter case, he could be, I hypothesized, the same individual depicted in the 3D image of the former. I must admit that it's a very unlikely hypothesis.

( I thought that Ronald Glenn West was the perpetrator in the Blind River murders, but it was later confirmed that he wasn't).

I hadn't heard that he was eliminated as a suspect. Do you know any more info about that?

I hadn't heard that he was eliminated as a suspect. Do you know any more info about that?


In the following thread, "Birdman275" mentioned that he phoned an Ontario Provincial Police Officer, and that he confirmed that the Blind River killings perpetrator hasn´t been caught, and that he is not Ronald Glenn West:


http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=74350&highlight=blind+river+rest+stop+murders

Maybe you're right. Strange, I must have seen that segment a million times plus it's one of my favorites. I could've sworn I saw a composite sketch of a man wearing a hood... Now I'm confused... :lol:
There was a sketch of the suspect's VEHICLE, with something I've never seen in another segment, Stack's words being scrolled across the bottom in the white Sans Serif font (which in itself I found creepy). Stack then was shown again standing by the highway giving the vague description of the suspect himself. The witness didn't get a good enough look at him for a sketch to be made(he was obviously very old and probably didn't have the greatest eyesight).

If the guy in the truck at the rest stop with the two jugs was the killer and a serial killer or professional killer and armed--why didn't he just kill the rest stop worker and dump him too? Wouldn't he want to kill his only eye witness to his description and placing him there at the murder scene and area?

Very strange story. I wonder if Dexter didn't have an enemy that the authorities haven't uncovered or if he had something other than gas or money that the killer wanted?

Honestly, I think the murderer is a local that folks are protecting. I know that sounds kinda out there, but I also understand the mentality of folks from the Glendive area. Those folks are incredibly loyal to each other. It would make sense if the killer were someone from the area who obviously had knowledge of the area.

But that's just me.

EDIT: LOL! I just reviewed the entire thread for this topic and saw that I expressed a similar opinion back in June of 2006. At least I'm consistent. :)

Hey CRicci, that wouldnt surprise me either. I do think the guy in the truck was the killer, I mean, the only other explaination for him would be, he just found a car sitting at the rest stop with the keys in it and no one around, that he stole the car, got gas, came back, filled up his own truck and then set the car he just stole on fire? Doesnt make any sense.

I am not sure if the killer was living locally in the Glendive area at the time, but it has always been my opinion that he did or had lived in Eastern Montana at one time and knew the area well because of where he found the remote dump site that only a local or someone that knew the area well would know about.

Also, when the killer left to dump Dexter's body plus get gas he presumably used back roads, went to one of the local small towns to get gas, then he came back from the opposite direction in which he left the rest stop presumably. Presumably he left the rest stop with Dexter going east towards Glendive, but yet he returned to the rest stop coming from the west from the direction of Miles City.

The truck had a cow catcher on the front, so it has been my opinion that the killer was quite possibly a ranch hand or a farm worker or something, the truck had Arizona plates and I would think that if he was living locally that the Arizona plates on the truck would stand out. But as I said, even if he was living in Arizona, I do believe this killer probably did live in Eastern Montana at some point in his life for an extended period of time. It is also my opinion that this wasnt this killer's first murder, nor was it his last.

Folks in Eastern Montana could be protecting him, out of loyalty for the good ole boy network that exists in many of these rural areas or out of fear for their own lives. I just have a hard time believing that no one knows who this guy is or at least no one even suspects someone of doing it.

I dont fault the witness, yes he was old, but you also must remember, he didnt know a murder had been committed, he didnt know any crime had been committed for that matter, I'm sure he thought it was strange how the guy pulled up in a different car and walked up to the truck and stuff, but I am still guessing murder was the farthest thing from the rest stop workers mind.

I think the rest stop worker may have been killed had he kept poking into things, but he asked the guy if he was having any trouble, the guy said no, and the worker dropped the subject so the killer knew the rest stop worker suspected nothing and let him go, that is my opinion.

He waited for the rest stop worker to leave and get out of site, than with no one around he doused the car with gasoline and set it on fire to destroy trace evidence, hairs, fibers, possibly fingerprints, etc, and as the segment said, he also probably set the fire so that the cops would be distracted so he would have time to get out of the area unscathed.

It seems to me that this killer also was or had been a local and probably still had family and or friends in the area because it seems he was returning to the area on more than one occassion after the murder, it seems that he was following the media coverage in the newspaper and stuff to some degree.

But he knew the area so well and this is Eastern Montana afterall, I just think you would have had to live there for an extended period of time at some point to know all the little quirks of the area and stuff, it seems to me this killer, is a killer that kills people who he views as having "done something bad" to him. I mean he beat around on Dexter and shot him twice in the head, a rather personal killing, if he wanted to only kill him, he would have just shot him in the head and ended it, so clearly he needed to have power and act out his anger and rage by beating Dexter.

While the theory of Dexter having some unknown, unseen, unsuspected enemy is possible, I think it is unlikely. Dexter was a 68 year old retiree from Wisconsin, a mild mannered man, he was in a completely different part of the country, how would this unknown enemy even know he was there?

I do have one problem with the sheriff's theory, I still am not entirely convinced the killer was waiting for Dexter at the rest stop. I think it is entirely possible that this could be the result of road rage to a point. Dexter might have cut this guy off or done something to make this guy snap, so he followed him to the rest-stop, things went downhill fast, then the guy not wanting his truck to be seen and he didnt want to risk his truck or himself being recognized so he drove Dexter's car to throw people off, killed Dexter and dumped his body, went to town somewhere in Dexter's car where he purchased the gas, then he returned to the scene and used the gas to set Dexter's car on fire.

The more you think about this story--the stranger it is. Just no reason at all to burn the car at the rest stop after murdering the guy at another location or at the dumpsite.

Well, I disagree, there were plenty of reasons for the killer to burn the car. To destroy trace evidence, hairs, fibers, finger prints, blood evidence, etc, also to distract the local law enforcement and other people so that he would have time to be long gone from the area before anyone would even know who to look for. I am not sure why you dont think it wouldnt make sense to burn the car?

but if it was road rage, how did everything come together so easily. It's kind of hard to think that it was a spur of the moment killing. The killer defiately went to a lot of trouble not to leave behind evidence. I would think that rage killers would want to get out of there as soon as possible and retreat into a comfort zone. I think this may not have been his first kill...either that or he was just a very smart rage killer.

Well that is basically a given in my opinion that this guy had killed before, he didnt suddenly just decide that day to kill for the first time, I would say at the very least this guy had violently assaulted people before if not killed before Dexter's murder and if the killer isnt dead or in prison somewhere he has been killing since then too.

I didn't mean that it didn't make sense to burn the car--I meant burning it at the REST STOP. I doubt that Dexter was actually killed at the rest stop. Why did the killer not just set fire to the car at the dump site or where ever Dexter was killed?

I think it is because the rest stop is usually un inhabited, but also I think this was deliberately done because the killer wanted to not disclose or delay where Dexter was killed for some reason. Dexter's belongings being brought back to the dump OR being overlooked at the dumpsite is VERY PUZZLING.

This is a case of mis-direction for some weird reason. I wonder if this could have been a contract killing?

Why would it be a contract killing? While the theory is unique, I am not really sure why someone would want to set up a 68 year old retired fisherman to be murdered. Dexter's son would be the only one with motive and from what I can tell Dexter's son had more money than Dexter did.

Well, burning the car at the rest stop, as you said, the killer didnt burn the car where Dexter was dumped because, not only did the killer not want to disclose the location but how would the killer have got back to the rest stop then? He would have had to walk several miles in cold and snow, and his truck maybe was really out of gas, that is why he drove the car back to the rest stop? Basically, I guess I dont think it is unusual that it was burned at the rest stop.

I dont think Dexter was killed at the rest stop either, I believe Dexter was killed in the car or at the dump site itself, but the car being burned, it would make more sense that Dexter was killed in the car, hence why the car was burned.

But a contract killing? It is my opinion that it wasnt, it appears to me to be a random killing, the other theories just dont fit this case. It just appears Dexter was in the wrong place at the wrong time and encountered a violent individual who has no problem killing people for sport.

killing for sport...now THAT's frightening. Another couple of questions I also have though.
1. I do think this guy was something of a seasonal Montana worker with either some ties to the area (friends, relatives, etc), but why would he be there still in the winter. I am a layman when it comes to ranching/farming, but wouldn't you think that the guy would be looking for work in a warmer area (i.e. AZ) I don't know how much money ranchands make, but I doubt you can make enough in one portion of the year to sustain the whole year.

2. Also, I don't think that he was killed at the rest stop either, but if he wasn't, then where was Dexter being kept until he was dumped??? We don't know (although it seems unlikely) that he was dumped the same day. I don't think it was the same day b/c of the fire and all the attention it attracted.

-Normally I would say that someone had to see something, but Montana is like Saskatchewan, you can go for miles and miles before seeing another human being.

3. I just wonder that if the killer is being protected, why? Why would anyone be comfortable sheilding a maniacal danger like this guy????

Well, it has always been my theory and many other people's theory that the killer either lived or had lived at one time in Eastern Montana, obviously it is just an assumption that he worked as a rancher or a roughneck in the oil fields or something, because of the cow catcher on the front of his truck, there are ranches in Arizona too, so that is certainly a possibility.

The killer was obviously familiar with the area so he at the very least had relatives or friends in Eastern Montana and had been around the area and knew where things were because if you were not from that area you wouldnt just stumble on that remote dumpsite by coincidence, so there is some connection the killer has to eastern Montana, but what?

I can't imagine a motive anyone would have for killing Dexter Stefonek. I think this was another one of those instances where the killer stalked locations and not specific victims. The killer probably chose the rest stop because it was in a remote area, and just waitied for a victim. Dexter was particularly vulnerable because he was old and was hard of hearing. Unfortunately, I think Dexter was just in the wrong place in the wrong time.

As to why the car was burned, and why the body and car were found in 2 different locations, I have always been puzzled by that, but I just now formed a hypothesis: since the killer chose the rest stop, I think it's safe to assume he planned on killing someone that was not from the area (as people that live in the area probably don't hang around rest stops, they wouldn't have much reason to.) Since the victim was out of the area to begin with, and if the killer torches the car, and moves the body (as he did), it gets alot harder for the police to piece everything together (although they would end up piecing most of it together)

I can't remember, but didn't the segment say that Dexter was sleeping in his car in lieu of renting hotel/motel rooms. If so, that may have made him more vulnerable yet as crimes against the homeless/people perceived as homeless are quite high I believe.

After watching this segment and the Blind River Rest Stop murders and hearing about the Florida rest area killings years ago, why would anyone sleep in their car overnight at one of these places anymore? I've road tripped overnight both with someone and alone and I never stop at rest areas after dark, even to just use the restroom or get a soda. I always stop at a well lit gas station, preferably the new larger type. Rest areas at night just freak me out. They're dark, isolated and usually pretty desolate since they have a reputation for being dangerous.

Did UM air anything on the Florida rest area killings? I'd heard there was a rash of them years ago, and I don't know if they caught the person. I'd like to get more info. on them but Google didn't turn up anything.

I should point out that the McAllisters and Dexter Stefonek were both alone at the rest stops. Also, the surviving victim of the New England serial killer also was alone at a rest stop type area, so I would definitely recommend exercising caution when visiting a rest stop - check to see how many cars and people are around.

most definately. There is one I have stopped at on I-70 just inside the PA Line from MD. Very spooky being basically in the woods. Never would I do that again.

I think a solid reason for the killer to burn the vehicle at the rest stop is if Stefonek was killed or beaten inside the car. Their would have been blood everywhere. A car abandoned at a rest stop wouldn't have garnered too much attention, but a bloody car would have immediately set off the alarm bells. You could say that a burning car would do the same thing, but the burning car has the advantage of delaying the investigation while police/fire try to put out the first, and identify the car and it's owner.

The killer was smart enough not to trust the fire to burn all evidence of Stefonek, though, so he took all of his belongings. This guy wants people to know that Stefonek was murdered, but he was able to give himself just enough time to be ahead of the investigation by leaving the body and Dexter's belongings in the dump. Very creepy. I agree that it's probably a local and some kind of random thrill-killing.

I also agree that rest stops at night = creepy...even without knowing about all of these murders! I've made a few overnight road trips by myself, and I am always checked in to a reputable hotel by sundown. I'm a very independent person, and hotels are expensive, but I'd rather not take my chances.

I just wonder that if the killer is being protected, why? Why would anyone be comfortable sheilding a maniacal danger like this guy????

I'm not sure where you're from, but I think you'd be surprised at the amount of loyalty that you see in small communities, especially those in eastern Montana. I find it hard to explain myself, and I'm FROM Montana! :)

People talk about the "good-old-boy" networks in rural Montana, and although I think they don't control the communities like they did back in the time that Dexter was murdered, I definitely think that if the "good-old-boy" community wanted to keep the murder under wraps and ordered no one to speak of it, the people who knew about Dexter's fate and the identity of the person(s) involved would respect that, ESPECIALLY if it were one of their own.

Case in point, although unrelated: I grew up in one of these rural "good-old-boy" networks. I was adopted when I was a baby, yet I didn't find out until I was 25. According to my family, who were quite involved in the community, everyone knew. Yet no one told me for 25 years.

I know it seems rare, but communities can definitely keep secrets.

On the issue of why a community would protect a murderer: It may be more that the community is trying to protect the murderer's family, and less to do with the murderer himself. Still, it's pretty heinous.

CRicci, I know what you are talking about, I think most people do not realize the good ole boy networks that exist in these rural areas, they will protect people for doing horrible things even murder. Why? Well, even if that person is put away, their family chances are lives in the area and would make things pretty miserable for the person that turned in their relative and their family and you would actually be thought of as a worse person for breaking the good ole boy network than the person that actually did the crime!

I am originally from southwestern North Dakota and I live in rural southern Minnesota now, and I remember back in high school, we were talking about how someone could do a murder around here and probably get away with it if they did it the right way and dumped the body in the right place, it is scary but true. This was in our business law class senior year and the teacher asked people to raise hands if they thought someone in this area could do a murder around here and get away with it and everyone in the class raised their hands.

I watched this case again today, and I have to agree that there is something very strange about it. I think the oddest fact is that Dexter was severely beaten before he was shot. It just seems so unnecessary to me. We know the killer had a gun that he could have used to control Dexter. If he just wanted to kill him, he could have easily shot him right off the bat. I also tend to doubt Dexter's wounds were defensive in nature because, again, the killer had a gun, and also I can't exactly see Dexter fighting back at his age. This suggests that something triggered the killer to go the extra step to beat Dexter, but why?

This is so clearly a rage killing, but if we assume that Dexter didn't know the killer, what could the motive have been?

Someone suggested road rage. I think this is a possibility. However, I also find it suspect that Dexter would have pulled in to an abandoned rest stop with no witnesses around if he realized that someone was following him. If this were a spur of the moment road rage type killing, I could see the killer attempting to cover his tracks by disposing of the body, moving and burning the car etc. but then why would he return to the landfill months after dumping the body there to return Dexter's missing wallet, suitcase, shaving kit and other belongings? Also, what was the point of the graffiti?

I wonder how certain the police are that the graffiti was even written by the killer. I presume the entire message was not read on UM, but what they did disclose sounded kind of vague. The graffiti could have been written by some sicko who read about Dexter's case in the newspaper, as I'm sure it was widely reported at the time.

There are just too many loose ends here...

I think Dexter saw something he shouldn't have. To me IMO, it's the only thing that makes any sense. He was killed to keep him quiet, about what he saw. Don't you think the police would have traced Dexter's car back to the gas station? I mean, this place was out in the middle of nowhere, and a lot of times you only have one small gas station in the area and it's many miles away, I have experienced this on a few road trips I have taken. Someone had to have seen the killer pull up in Dexter's car to purchase the gas! I'm sure they could have gotten a good description of the killer from the gas station attendant. I mean vehicles in that area would probably stand out especially if it's a small mom & pop type place, that doesn't get a lot of customers. Someone had to see this guy driving Dexters car at some time, they should have come forward then. I don't think the odds of catching this person now are very good, this case has gone too cold over the past 22 years. I just hope that whomever did this to Dexter hasn't gone and killed someone else. Too many loose ends on this one................Sad.

Did anybody follow the money lead in this case ? That his son or anybody else that inherit money from his death was involved. To me it sounds like a hit job. I have not seen this segment though.

Did anybody follow the money lead in this case ? That his son or anybody else that inherit money from his death was involved. To me it sounds like a hit job. I have not seen this segment though.

I'm not so sure what to think of this, it's such a strange case. However I don't think it was a hit job, mainly because of the way Dexter was brutally beaten, like in an act of rage, makes me think that Dexter had done something to tick the killer off, maybe he cut him off on the highway or something like that. I think it's possible the guy who murdered Dexter was on crack or some kind of drugs at the time.

I'm not so sure what to think of this, it's such a strange case. However I don't think it was a hit job, mainly because of the way Dexter was brutally beaten, like in an act of rage, makes me think that Dexter had done something to tick the killer off, maybe he cut him off on the highway or something like that. I think it's possible the guy who murdered Dexter was on crack or some kind of drugs at the time.
On crack witout taking the money ?..no way
To me it sound more like a overkill than a rage kill. I dont think a rage kill could have been so planned. Hiding the body and set the car on fire.
To me it sounds like the person who did it had the gasoline with him to set the car on fire. He new what to do before the killing. I cant see the serial killer connection either.. even though it has happen that serial killers kill with out a pattern.

Anything's possible, of course, but absent any physical evidence positively linking them, I'd have to say the chances that the two murders are related aren't very good.

The distance alone between the two murder scenes makes it highly unlikely.

The recent bump of this thread got me thinking about this case again. I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, and I certainly hope that I don't, but it occurred to me that highway rest stops are often meeting places for closeted homosexual men to hook up. Perhaps, in this case, someone propositioned someone, a derogatory comment was made, and things got violent.

I don't have any supporting evidence aside from the location, and I'm not saying this is what I believe happened. However, I think it's a good idea to cover all the bases, and I don't know if a sex crime or a sexually based motive can be ruled out.

The recent bump of this thread got me thinking about this case again. I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, and I certainly hope that I don't, but it occurred to me that highway rest stops are often meeting places for closeted homosexual men to hook up. Perhaps, in this case, someone propositioned someone, a derogatory comment was made, and things got violent.

I don't have any supporting evidence aside from the location, and I'm not saying this is what I believe happened. However, I think it's a good idea to cover all the bases, and I don't know if a sex crime or a sexually based motive can be ruled out.

Interesting theory. I'm not sure if it's routine to check for evidence of sexual assault during and autopsy when a man is murdered.

One thing that makes me think it was more random as opposed to premeditated is that Dexter was traveling such a far distance (from Oregon to Wisconsin, which is more than halfway around the country.). So if it was premeditated, it would seem that the killer would have to know that Dexter was going to be at that spot at that time, which is highly unlikely.

Well they aired this with no update today - Is it still a cold case?

Well they aired this with no update today - Is it still a cold case?

Here are my thoughts.

1. Being that the body was a landfill that was in a rural area in a rural area of the state, the killer unfortunately has to be someone familiar with the area, meaning that the killer was a local. Dumping the personal effects at a later time at the same spot as the body? Has to be a local. Perhaps the case has gone cold bc of it.

2. The homosexual aspect is an interesting thought. Like I stated earlier, it is a rural area. Perhaps Dexter did prop someone and they flipped out in rage. Rest stops do have the rep of a homosexual pick up spot in some areas.

3. The truck was a standout truck. I'm from Central Michigan and the cow catcher is a popular thing in my neck of the woods. I know I'm just speaking after the fact, but if I were that maintenance supervisor, seeing an Arizona truck abandoned in the rest stop, I would have at least noted the tag number bc maybe that person could be in trouble. I find it hard to believe that no one spotted the truck, meaning it was either painted, or people are not coming forward, possibly because of fear.

If the person who posted a month ago on the UM Case List/Updates thread claiming to be the child of James Burnside is telling the truth, TWO employers who didn't know him personally helped him escape before a third boss turned him in, although they recognized him and KNEW he was guilty of the murder of his wife and attempted murder of her coworker. :mad:

If these posts are genuine, why has no one responded? If not, why are they still up? :confused:

Yes, mphs, that was my theory a while ago. I agree with it, that the person who murdered Dexter in my opinion was very familiar with the area of eastern Montana where Dexter's body was found. I do not think a person that was not familiar with that area would stumble across that landfill area by chance especially in winter. My guess is the person either at the time of the murder or sometime previously had lived in that area, probably as a ranch hand or a ranch foreman or something like that. The Arizona plates with the cow-catcher and the colors of the truck did stand out but it is easier to say that after the fact. The maintence supervisor did notice the plates were out of state and I am surprised he was never put under hypnosis? However Arizona is a state where they only require license plates on the back and evidently some of the plate was covered with snow.

Yes, mphs, that was my theory a while ago. I agree with it, that the person who murdered Dexter in my opinion was very familiar with the area of eastern Montana where Dexter's body was found. I do not think a person that was not familiar with that area would stumble across that landfill area by chance especially in winter. My guess is the person either at the time of the murder or sometime previously had lived in that area, probably as a ranch hand or a ranch foreman or something like that. The Arizona plates with the cow-catcher and the colors of the truck did stand out but it is easier to say that after the fact. The maintence supervisor did notice the plates were out of state and I am surprised he was never put under hypnosis? However Arizona is a state where they only require license plates on the back and evidently some of the plate was covered with snow.

It is possible that Dexter might have done something by accident that was misconstrued by the killer as being prop'd for sex. When I watched this segment as a kid, I couldn't understand why someone would kill an elderly man, but as I am older now and have more knowlege, I think this is what happened:

Dexter stopped at the rest area, for a constitutional, sleep, or both. The killer was there also. Somehow, either by bumping his foot (i.e. Larry Craig) or some other innoculous gesture that meant nothing to Dex but to the killer, through homophobic paranoia, thought he was getting hit on and killed him.

The killer had to be a local or a former local with extensive knowledge of the area. I think people are afraid to speak up. Unfortunately, this case will not be resolved for a long time.

Yes, mphs, that was my theory a while ago. I agree with it, that the person who murdered Dexter in my opinion was very familiar with the area of eastern Montana where Dexter's body was found. I do not think a person that was not familiar with that area would stumble across that landfill area by chance especially in winter. My guess is the person either at the time of the murder or sometime previously had lived in that area, probably as a ranch hand or a ranch foreman or something like that. The Arizona plates with the cow-catcher and the colors of the truck did stand out but it is easier to say that after the fact. The maintence supervisor did notice the plates were out of state and I am surprised he was never put under hypnosis? However Arizona is a state where they only require license plates on the back and evidently some of the plate was covered with snow.

It is possible that Dexter might have done something by accident that was misconstrued by the killer as being prop'd for sex. When I watched this segment as a kid, I couldn't understand why someone would kill an elderly man, but as I am older now and have more knowlege, I think this is what happened:

Dexter stopped at the rest area, for a constitutional, sleep, or both. The killer was there also. Somehow, either by bumping his foot (i.e. Larry Craig) or some other innoculous gesture that meant nothing to Dex but to the killer, through homophobic paranoia, thought he was getting hit on and killed him.

The killer had to be a local or a former local with extensive knowledge of the area. I think people are afraid to speak up. Unfortunately, this case will not be resolved for a long time.

This is a sad, and yet interesting case indeed. I think the idea of road rage is a real possibility, esp. since the man was elderly, and perhaps was driving slowly, or not that well, and ticked off some nut case.

But the theory that the murderer was stalking his victim is equally plausible. I think that rest stops are prime locations for serial killer/sociopathic killer types. In addition to the UM cases that show examples of this, I will never forget an occurrence a few years ago.

My mom was driving from NC to VA, and she stopped at a rest area in broad daylight to use the bathroom, and when she came out she noticed a man in a car on the opposite side of the parking lot from hers. As she was walking to her car, she noticed that he got out of his car and started running towards her... Thank GOD, she was close enough to her car to run to it and jump in and pull off, but then we found out a few weeks later that someone had been raped at a rest stop not too far from where she stopped. Needless to say, no one in our family ever stops at rest areas any more.

The only thing that baffles me is that this rest area, from what I can tell, was incredibly remote. If a killer had chosen this as a place for a thrill kill, he got very lucky, as it seemed he didn't have to wait long for Dexter.

Regardless, this is a horribly sad case. I hope the bastard gets caught one of these days. I am very surprised that, with a distinctive truck like that, he was never apprehended. Although, with no physical evidence, maybe they have a suspect but aren't saying so.

My mom was driving from NC to VA, and she stopped at a rest area in broad daylight to use the bathroom, and when she came out she noticed a man in a car on the opposite side of the parking lot from hers. As she was walking to her car, she noticed that he got out of his car and started running towards her... Thank GOD, she was close enough to her car to run to it and jump in and pull off, but then we found out a few weeks later that someone had been raped at a rest stop not too far from where she stopped. Needless to say, no one in our family ever stops at rest areas any more.

That is BIG TIME scary. :eek: What interstate were those rest stops on?

She was driving on Interstate 85 north, on her way from Raleigh NC to 95 north, where she would go to Richmond Va. Yeah, it was extremely scary to think of my mom in that situation! The rest area was on 85 North.

It is possible that Dexter might have done something by accident that was misconstrued by the killer as being prop'd for sex. When I watched this segment as a kid, I couldn't understand why someone would kill an elderly man, but as I am older now and have more knowlege, I think this is what happened:

Dexter stopped at the rest area, for a constitutional, sleep, or both. The killer was there also. Somehow, either by bumping his foot (i.e. Larry Craig) or some other innoculous gesture that meant nothing to Dex but to the killer, through homophobic paranoia, thought he was getting hit on and killed him.

The killer had to be a local or a former local with extensive knowledge of the area. I think people are afraid to speak up. Unfortunately, this case will not be resolved for a long time.

I just saw this case for the first time recently and I agree with you on the possibility that Dexter did something unintentional that was construed wrongly by the killer. My only argument about that would be that I believe that the killer had to be from that area or very familar with the area, as no one just happens to stumble upon a landfill, especially in winter. That leads me to my next question, if the killer was local, why was he at a rest area?

Honestly, I think the murderer is a local that folks are protecting. I know that sounds kinda out there, but I also understand the mentality of folks from the Glendive area. Those folks are incredibly loyal to each other. It would make sense if the killer were someone from the area who obviously had knowledge of the area.

But that's just me.

EDIT: LOL! I just reviewed the entire thread for this topic and saw that I expressed a similar opinion back in June of 2006. At least I'm consistent. :)

I'm with you CRicci. I'm from a small town in Michigan. Do I think we'd protect one from a murder charge? I wouldn't, but I know some who would. If the dump is as remote as the segment said, then it has to be someone local, or used to be local. I think someone was dump diving and saw Dexter and got scared, which could be why he wasn't found before.

Don't know a lot about this case.

One thought I had is that a convict or fugitive was trying to escape across state lines and perhaps used Dexter as means of doing that. The end result was that Dexter was killed

I just absolutely do not understand those belongings turning up in that dump site so late--or why Dexter's ID was left with them. I don't know why the killer wouldn't have just tried to sell Dexter's stuff, or covertly dispose of it. And why leave a way to facilitate identifying the body by leaving the driver's license in the same location?

Perhaps, as Mastermind suggested, the killer is quite transient. That would definitely explain the Arizona plates--maybe he was even trying to flee to Canada. But why commit another crime while on flight? That part I don't understand.


Is it even possible that the killer had preserved Dexter and maintained his belongings elsewhere (maybe something like a storage unit or basement), then left everything at the dump site in a weak attempt to throw authorities or at least bide a little time?

There may be a slight chance the killer kept the body and the belongings close by out of fear of immediate discovery, but why not then just bury the body and get rid of the stuff? I really hate to think that Dexter's body was used in post-mortem activities, but that would be the only obvious reason I could see for keeping a body.


I don't know. Just thinking out loud.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19851206&id=52caAAAAIBAJ&sjid=YCoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5360,839515

Perhaps, as Mastermind suggested, the killer is quite transient. That would definitely explain the Arizona plates--maybe he was even trying to flee to Canada. But why commit another crime while on flight? That part I don't understand.

He may not have intended to kill Dexter. Perhaps the situation devolved to a point where the killer believed he had to kill Dexter. Extreme paranoia may have set in.

Honestly, I think the murderer is a local that folks are protecting. I know that sounds kinda out there, but I also understand the mentality of folks from the Glendive area. Those folks are incredibly loyal to each other. It would make sense if the killer were someone from the area who obviously had knowledge of the area.

But that's just me.

EDIT: LOL! I just reviewed the entire thread for this topic and saw that I expressed a similar opinion back in June of 2006. At least I'm consistent. :)
what was the motive

One of my favorite segments for sure

You know that Robert Stack was so good at scaring the piss out of me as a kid that even a Composite Scetch of the truck gave me nightmares :eek:

I used to look for that truck wit Arizona plates at every rest stop my family stopped at

I felt so bad for Dexter, he had lost his wife and must have felt so alone, I wish he would have stayed the entire winter with his son

This segment touched me just like the Gord Mcallister segment

I think UM did a great job on this one

If it's okay, I'd like to post the text of the article that Arnold OldSchool linked in post #70. I thought it might be helpful in case some folks don't want to follow links. Here's the short article:

The Milwaukee Journal December 6, 1985

Glendive, MT - AP - Montana authorities said Friday that they suspected foul play in the disappearance three weeks ago of a Wisconsin man and that they were searching for a two tone blue van in connection with the case.

The search for Dexter Stefonek, 67, of Rhinelander, began after his car was found in flames Nov. 19 at a rest stop along Interstate 94 about 20 miles west of Glendive.

Dawson County Undersheriff James George said Friday that investigators thought that Stefonek might not have been driving his car when it arrived at the rest stop.

A caretaker at the rest stop reported seeing a car thought to be Stefonek's pull into the area around 9am, George said.

A man who did not match Stefonek's description got out of the car with three one-gallon jugs apparently containing gasoline and began pouring them into the gas tank of the blue van. The caretaker told authorities he had noticed the van parked without anyone in it about 8:30am, George said.

The man was described as 6 feet tall, 180 pounds and without glasses. Stefonek is 5 feet 6 inches tall, 140 pounds and wears glasses, George said.

Arnold's post inspired me to search the google news archive. I narrowed it down to "stefonek" for the years between 1985 and 1990. The previously posted article is the only one I could find regarding this murder. The archive doesn't have a follow up article reporting the discovery of his body.

I thought it was kinda weird that the article said a two tone blue van was involved. I thought UM said it was a white (with green trim) full size ford bronco style four by four with a cow catcher on the front.

The UM website quotes the rest area care taker as saying that he saw a "pick-up" at the rest area two hours before Mr. Stefonek's car was set on fire.

About 15 minutes after the care taker showed up, a highway maintenance supervisor stopped by. He saw the care taker's truck and what he described as "a white Chevy pick-up", "a four wheel drive Chevy with blue trim and a cowcatcher on the front".

The sketch does not show what I consider to be a pick up. It looks like a full size Chevy Blazer. Of course, on my monitor, the sketch is only about 1 1/2 by 2 inches so details are hard to see. When I look at the pic, I see this: http://www.anglersfishinginfo.com/classified/vehicles/terry/

Heck, the one in the link even has the cow catcher on the front. I'm wondering if they were standard or at least straight from the manufacturer and not an aftermarket item. But that thing is not what I call a cow catcher. Looks more like a brush guard type thing. I wonder if localized differences in descriptions basically caused a language barrier that created problems with getting this case solved. I know the descriptions are confusing me, 25 years later, and I live in the Motor City! lol I should know this stuff.

Mr. Stefonek told his son that he intended to save time by stopping in rest areas rather than checking into motels. I believe he planned to sleep in his car at rest stops.

He left his son's home in Oregon early on Monday and his car was found in Montana, on fire about 10am the next morning, Tuesday.

It really bothers me that a grieving widower, a senior citizen, small in stature, hard of hearing, and traveling on a long road trip alone, was murdered so brutally.

Everyone here has put forward a lot of good theories on what happened. Not knowing the people involved, and just basing this on a "feeling", if this was sexually motivated as mentioned earlier, I don't think it would have been a scenario where Mr. Stefonek propositioned someone or accidentally gave indicators that he was interested in having an encounter with a man in the rest area.

If something like that happened, I'd think it was more of a situation where the man propositioned Mr. Stefonek, with negative results. Please forgive the stereotyping, but he was 5'6" and slightly built. Maybe he was attractive to the murderer, who "tapped his foot" and was rebuffed. Possibly Mr. Stefonek even used a slur against him when telling him that he wasn't interested. This could have incited a rage, which many of us agree was involved in the killing.

Another theory discussed previously was that locals were covering for one of their own by not going to police with knowledge or suspicions they may have had. This was seen in the murders (also 1985) of the two Michigan hunters, Brian Ognjan and David Tyll. They were murdered by local bullies who wanted to basically commit a thrill killing. It was especially horrific and the murders were witnessed by many people, including at least two people who were not involved. Fear of these killers caused the witnesses to not cooperate with the investigation. IIRC, they finally broke their silence once the killers were in jail on other charges and could not seek retribution against them. ( http://www.freewebs.com/davidandbrian/casedetails.htm )

Also, if locals are covering for one of their own, and this was sexually motivated, perhaps they know that "Joe Killer" hangs out at the rest area looking for dates. But back in 1985 they didn't want to reveal this information, since homosexuality was generally not an accepted lifestyle, especially in the rural areas of the US. They may have thought that revealing their friend/relative's sexuality would have been a huge detriment to their social standing and preferred to ignore it.

Another weird thing is that it's suspected that Mr. Stefonek's body was placed at the dump around the time of the murder, but his belongings weren't placed there until much later. Since this was over the winter months in a northern state, I'm guessing that snow accumulation could indicate if the body had been there longer than the suitcase. Not knowing those details, I'm assuming that the body and belongings were placed there at the same time.

Perhaps a garbage picker was going through the suitcase when he realized it probably belonged to the recent murder victim. This is also assuming that he had read the news and knew Mr. Stefonek's car was burned up and that the man and his suitcase were missing. Maybe he just panicked at that point or had criminal issues of his own and didn't want to get involved with police.

Was the amount of money left behind in the suit case ever revealed? Authorities said that they pretty much ruled out robbery as a motive, since the car was immediately destroyed and the money wasn't stolen from the suitcase. I wonder if it was a big wad of cash that was being used for traveling money. Mr. Stefonek had been staying away from home for an extended period of time. I wonder if he lived on cash, traveler's checks, or credit cards while he was away from his local bank.

Arnold's post inspired me to search the google news archive. I narrowed it down to "stefonek" for the years between 1985 and 1990. The previously posted article is the only one I could find regarding this murder. The archive doesn't have a follow up article reporting the discovery of his body.

I thought it was kinda weird that the article said a two tone blue van was involved. I thought UM said it was a white (with green trim) full size ford bronco style four by four with a cow catcher on the front.

The UM website quotes the rest area care taker as saying that he saw a "pick-up" at the rest area two hours before Mr. Stefonek's car was set on fire.

About 15 minutes after the care taker showed up, a highway maintenance supervisor stopped by. He saw the care taker's truck and what he described as "a white Chevy pick-up", "a four wheel drive Chevy with blue trim and a cowcatcher on the front".

The sketch does not show what I consider to be a pick up. It looks like a full size Chevy Blazer. Of course, on my monitor, the sketch is only about 1 1/2 by 2 inches so details are hard to see. When I look at the pic, I see this: http://www.anglersfishinginfo.com/classified/vehicles/terry/

Heck, the one in the link even has the cow catcher on the front. I'm wondering if they were standard or at least straight from the manufacturer and not an aftermarket item. But that thing is not what I call a cow catcher. Looks more like a brush guard type thing. I wonder if localized differences in descriptions basically caused a language barrier that created problems with getting this case solved. I know the descriptions are confusing me, 25 years later, and I live in the Motor City! lol I should know this stuff.

Mr. Stefonek told his son that he intended to save time by stopping in rest areas rather than checking into motels. I believe he planned to sleep in his car at rest stops.

He left his son's home in Oregon early on Monday and his car was found in Montana, on fire about 10am the next morning, Tuesday.

It really bothers me that a grieving widower, a senior citizen, small in stature, hard of hearing, and traveling on a long road trip alone, was murdered so brutally.

Everyone here has put forward a lot of good theories on what happened. Not knowing the people involved, and just basing this on a "feeling", if this was sexually motivated as mentioned earlier, I don't think it would have been a scenario where Mr. Stefonek propositioned someone or accidentally gave indicators that he was interested in having an encounter with a man in the rest area.

If something like that happened, I'd think it was more of a situation where the man propositioned Mr. Stefonek, with negative results. Please forgive the stereotyping, but he was 5'6" and slightly built. Maybe he was attractive to the murderer, who "tapped his foot" and was rebuffed. Possibly Mr. Stefonek even used a slur against him when telling him that he wasn't interested. This could have incited a rage, which many of us agree was involved in the killing.

Another theory discussed previously was that locals were covering for one of their own by not going to police with knowledge or suspicions they may have had. This was seen in the murders (also 1985) of the two Michigan hunters, Brian Ognjan and David Tyll. They were murdered by local bullies who wanted to basically commit a thrill killing. It was especially horrific and the murders were witnessed by many people, including at least two people who were not involved. Fear of these killers caused the witnesses to not cooperate with the investigation. IIRC, they finally broke their silence once the killers were in jail on other charges and could not seek retribution against them. ( http://www.freewebs.com/davidandbrian/casedetails.htm )

Also, if locals are covering for one of their own, and this was sexually motivated, perhaps they know that "Joe Killer" hangs out at the rest area looking for dates. But back in 1985 they didn't want to reveal this information, since homosexuality was generally not an accepted lifestyle, especially in the rural areas of the US. They may have thought that revealing their friend/relative's sexuality would have been a huge detriment to their social standing and preferred to ignore it.

Another weird thing is that it's suspected that Mr. Stefonek's body was placed at the dump around the time of the murder, but his belongings weren't placed there until much later. Since this was over the winter months in a northern state, I'm guessing that snow accumulation could indicate if the body had been there longer than the suitcase. Not knowing those details, I'm assuming that the body and belongings were placed there at the same time.

Perhaps a garbage picker was going through the suitcase when he realized it probably belonged to the recent murder victim. This is also assuming that he had read the news and knew Mr. Stefonek's car was burned up and that the man and his suitcase were missing. Maybe he just panicked at that point or had criminal issues of his own and didn't want to get involved with police.

Was the amount of money left behind in the suit case ever revealed? Authorities said that they pretty much ruled out robbery as a motive, since the car was immediately destroyed and the money wasn't stolen from the suitcase. I wonder if it was a big wad of cash that was being used for traveling money. Mr. Stefonek had been staying away from home for an extended period of time. I wonder if he lived on cash, traveler's checks, or credit cards while he was away from his local bank.

Those are some good ideas. I don't think it was a sexually motivated crime, there's no evidence of it.

To me, the fact that Dexter's possessions were ransacked and turned inside out, I find it hard to believe the killer would have missed the money no matter how large a quantity it was. So that should rule out robbery.

I think the theory we should all consider, which I haven't noticed on this thread, is that Dexter may have been a victim of a serial killer. There are many kinds of serial killers, including some that choose their victims at random without any regard for gender or age. To me, that sounds like a thrill-type serial killer.

His possessions were certainly searched through and his wallet with ID was left behind and other items were scattered around the dump. That reminds me of serial killer Rafael Resendez Ramirez. He killed 30 people over a span of 12 years in states including Texas, Florida, and Illinois. One thing he did that is pretty uncommon among killers with random victims is he laid out their personal possessions in their homes especially drivers licenses, to learn about the lives he had taken. He wouldn't take cash but would take valuable possessions such as jewelry and melt them down to sell them. Dexter didn't seem to have any valuable items in his car.

The timeline goes:
Dexter pulls into the rest area early that morning, his killer was either already there or was on his way there. He pretends he needs help or immediately flashes a gun to Dexter. He takes him out to a remote area of the Montana country close to the landfill, and kills him on the way there or on spot, then tries to bury his body but keeps the possessions. On the way back to the rest area, he stops to fill a gas container. Since he was seen in Dexter's car at the rest area, he has to wait until no one is there to load the possessions in his truck then torch the car. In the process of getting away from the crime scene, he looks over the possessions as was his habit, then when he is finished with them, he passed through the landfill where Dexter still lays dead to dispose of them.

Oh yeah, that Rafael Resendez Ramirez guy.... He sure had an odd MO, traveling the country by train, not stealing anything of real value (I think he usually ate food from the victim's fridge), then he laid out their ID while often lingering around the crime scene.

So many weird serial killers out there with more and more unusual MOs. It's making it kinda hard to fit these guys into a standard "profile" in order to predict their behaviors or use that info as a tool in capturing these guys.

I felt so bad for Dexter, he had lost his wife and must have felt so alone, I wish he would have stayed the entire winter with his son

Looking back on it, I have become convinced that the reason for Dexter's decision to leave his son's home when he did was because being back at his own residence would help him cope with his wife's death. My surmise is that he had been delaying part of the grieving process by spending the last few months at his son's home in Oregon. This might actually explain his eagerness to go back to his home in Wisconsin.

Those are some good ideas. I don't think it was a sexually motivated crime, there's no evidence of it.

To me, the fact that Dexter's possessions were ransacked and turned inside out, I find it hard to believe the killer would have missed the money no matter how large a quantity it was. So that should rule out robbery.

I think the theory we should all consider, which I haven't noticed on this thread, is that Dexter may have been a victim of a serial killer. There are many kinds of serial killers, including some that choose their victims at random without any regard for gender or age. To me, that sounds like a thrill-type serial killer.

His possessions were certainly searched through and his wallet with ID was left behind and other items were scattered around the dump. That reminds me of serial killer Rafael Resendez Ramirez. He killed 30 people over a span of 12 years in states including Texas, Florida, and Illinois. One thing he did that is pretty uncommon among killers with random victims is he laid out their personal possessions in their homes especially drivers licenses, to learn about the lives he had taken. He wouldn't take cash but would take valuable possessions such as jewelry and melt them down to sell them. Dexter didn't seem to have any valuable items in his car.

The timeline goes:
Dexter pulls into the rest area early that morning, his killer was either already there or was on his way there. He pretends he needs help or immediately flashes a gun to Dexter. He takes him out to a remote area of the Montana country close to the landfill, and kills him on the way there or on spot, then tries to bury his body but keeps the possessions. On the way back to the rest area, he stops to fill a gas container. Since he was seen in Dexter's car at the rest area, he has to wait until no one is there to load the possessions in his truck then torch the car. In the process of getting away from the crime scene, he looks over the possessions as was his habit, then when he is finished with them, he passed through the landfill where Dexter still lays dead to dispose of them.

I agree w/ portions of the scenario you have described. However, the sexual motive has to remain in "play" until and unless the killer is found and his motives are discovered. It's pretty much an "open secret" that a number of nominally "straight" men use rest areas as places to "cottage."
Just because this man was 67 years old and a grandfather doesn't mean that he didn't also.

My only problem w/ not taking the cash (which had to be a considerable amount for the police not to mention how much) is that there was no reason for the killer NOT to take it.
Unless it was sequential bills or was wrapped in a deposit slip showing that amount of money, the killer could have taken the money and had no problems w/ spending it. It might not even have been missed when/if the body was found.

1) The killer already being there: Likely,but since it was bitterly cold, he would have had to be running the motor in his vehicle to keep warm.

2) Killer just arriving: A more likely scenario because a man of Mr. Stefonek's age and experience in driving might not have stopped at a rest stop where another driver was at already.

3) There would have to have been some type of extended conversation between the assailant and Stefonek. One reason why is that slightly built and shorter men are more likely to be armed than larger ones. The killer had to at least sense that Mr. Stefonek was unarmed before he struck.

4) Where did the killer get the gasoline used to burn the truck? If, as shown in the segment, he had the gasoline in two antifreeze containers, wouldn't that have seemed odd to the people at the gas station? Also, exactly how many gas stations were there up there in 1985? Couldn't have been too many.

Finally,it was 1985. There was no "pay at the pump." You went in to pay for your gas or an attendant filled you up. Either way you'd have to make contact w/ someone that would remember you.Or remember the type of car you were driving.

5) The Arizona plates. This also bugs me. There can't be that many trucks in Arizona even in 1985 matching that description and most probably wouldn't have had a camper shell. Even fewer would have had a cattle catcher. And was the license really covered by (as shown on the segment) or did the maintenance supervisor simply forget the number?

If it was covered by snow, how did the driver avoid being pulled over at least once while driving around up there?
And Montana is known for closely watching for cars w/ out of state plate (in fact, you have 30 days to change tags if you are from out of state or else you'll be ticketed). That being the case, how was the suspect able to be in the area w/o arousing some type of police suspicion?

Ironically, unless there was evidence in the car that would something had happened to Mr. Stefonek, the killer made his biggest mistake burning Stefonek's vehicle. Had he simply either driven past the rest stop and returned later the maintenance worker was gone or had simply filled his truck w/ the gas he bought and abandoned Mr Stefonek's car, there would have been no search for Mr. Stefonek for an extended period.

If there had been, then the search would have most likely a "missing endangered adult" type of search rather than "hunting for a murderer" search. In fact. if he had flattened one of the tires, there would have been a plausible reason for Mr. Stefonek's car to have remained there.

This is yet another case where a confession is going to be the only solution.

Those are some good ideas. I don't think it was a sexually motivated crime, there's no evidence of it.
Are we totally sure about this? It's been a little while since I watched the segment, but I don't remember if the investigators explicitly ruled out sexual motives or not. If they didn't do so explicitly, that doesn't necessarily mean there's no evidence, just that they haven't revealed any evidence to the public.

Are we totally sure about this? It's been a little while since I watched the segment, but I don't remember if the investigators explicitly ruled out sexual motives or not. If they didn't do so explicitly, that doesn't necessarily mean there's no evidence, just that they haven't revealed any evidence to the public.

No,no one during this segment explicitly ruled out there being a sexual motive of some type for this crime. The body was found fully clothed, except for his right boot, so any "sexual activity"
might have been consensual, at least at first.

You also have to wonder if that rest area is commonly known to be a hangout for nominally "straight" men who are looking to have "encounters" with other men. If so, that would've led investigators in in a potentially new direction, the may have solved this case sooner.

Just rewatched the case. One of my favorites (is it morbid to say that) in UM history.

Somehow this case, in my mind, will never be solved. Details are too vague.

Just rewatched the case. One of my favorites (is it morbid to say that) in UM history.

Somehow this case, in my mind, will never be solved. Details are too vague.

If it was covered by snow, how did the driver avoid being pulled over at least once while driving around up there?
And Montana is known for closely watching for cars w/ out of state plate (in fact, you have 30 days to change tags if you are from out of state or else you'll be ticketed). That being the case, how was the suspect able to be in the area w/o arousing some type of police suspicion?


Wait... what?! I am not familiar with any type of law that states that, nor do I believe that Montana officers closely watch cars with out of state license plates. However, I live in a more urban area of Montana. Perhaps this is the case in more rural areas like Glendive.

I shot an email to the Dawson County Sheriff's Department in regards to this case a few years ago, to no avail. Perhaps it's time to send another one....

I think this is a case of some random hot-head going into a rage about something that Dexter said or did to him, etc. Perhaps, as the segment said, Dexter refused to give him a ride or go get him gas (sort of like the Charles Holden case). That's the only scenario that makes sense. I find the serial killer angle less likely since Dexter was a man. There are a few serial killers that kill men, but they are certainly the exception.

As for the sexual angle, I must say that the name "Hot Jock" does sound pretty gay. I had forgotten about that tidbit of the segment until I just went and watched it again. It does make one pause and consider the sexual angle. Just saying.

Wait a minute. Hot Jock? I thought that was someone on a CB related to the murders of prostitutes. Am I missing something?

Wait a minute. Hot Jock? I thought that was someone on a CB related to the murders of prostitutes. Am I missing something?

I think that was from a line of graffiti written in the Bad Route rest area bathroom. They think it's connected because there was a reference to Wisconsin in the graffiti.

From the article that was posted, I find the most interesting detail the revelation that the unknown person was seen pouring gas into his truck. Now, I suppose it is possible the killer did this only for show to the witnesses, that in fact the only reason he had the gas at all was to burn Stefonek's car, but it does strongly suggest to me that the killer was, in fact, out of gas.

And I just wonder - could this be the entire motive? Think about it. A guy runs out of gas, and manages to get into a secluded rest stop in Montana in the dead of winter. Who knows how long he has been there. It's frigid. He's losing time. He's angry, feeling desperate, and then along comes this little old man. He asks the old man for help, probably aggressively, and the old man, perhaps cantankerous himself after a long night of driving, perhaps naturally suspicious with age, and perhaps put off by the man's gruff demeanor, refuses. Our assailant, frustrated, simply loses it - commandeers the vehicle, etc., and in the process kills the man.

This raises two questions: obviously, the guy acquired some gas from somewhere. Presumably, a canvass was done of nearby gas stations, which, in Montana of the 1980s, I am betting there weren't a whole lot. What was the result of this cavass?

The other question: why did this guy bother to empty Stefonek's belongings from Stefonek's car, if he had no intent to steal any of them, if he also intended to burn the car entirely? Doesn't this suggest redundant effort?

Still a very weird case.

Why wasn't a composite drawing ever released? surely the guy who saw him there would have been able to give a decent account.

Why wasn't a composite drawing ever released? surely the guy who saw him there would have been able to give a decent account.

I seem to remember Robert Stack saying something about "the sketchy description of the suspect himself" so I would assume that the description given by the witness may not have been good enough to create a composite off of.

The witness was an older man, I believe. Maybe he had poor vision, or just didn't see the suspect straight on long enough to give police a description. Who knows when they found this witness? It may have been some time after the car fire, and his memory of the suspect's appearance may have been vague.

Since the witness likely thought nothing was out of the ordinary when he initially spoke to the suspect, he made not have taken real good notice of him.

Just some ideas.

And I just wonder - could this be the entire motive? Think about it. A guy runs out of gas, and manages to get into a secluded rest stop in Montana in the dead of winter. Who knows how long he has been there. It's frigid. He's losing time. He's angry, feeling desperate, and then along comes this little old man. He asks the old man for help, probably aggressively, and the old man, perhaps cantankerous himself after a long night of driving, perhaps naturally suspicious with age, and perhaps put off by the man's gruff demeanor, refuses. Our assailant, frustrated, simply loses it - commandeers the vehicle, etc., and in the process kills the man.

This raises two questions: obviously, the guy acquired some gas from somewhere. Presumably, a canvass was done of nearby gas stations, which, in Montana of the 1980s, I am betting there weren't a whole lot. What was the result of this cavass?

The other question: why did this guy bother to empty Stefonek's belongings from Stefonek's car, if he had no intent to steal any of them, if he also intended to burn the car entirely? Doesn't this suggest redundant effort?

Still a very weird case.

I could agree with this theory.

I could agree with this theory.

Yes, what about the writing in the mens rest room relating to the carjacker? he was meant to have wrote it. When did he write this on the wall?

Here are some observations I noted when re-watching this segment:

For those that believe this may have been a sexually motived crime, I have to disagree. Here's why:

1. Stefonek reached the rest stop in the morning. Don't these homosexual rendezvous at rest stops usually happen at night? 9 o'clock in the morning is a very odd time for two men to meet to have a homosexual encounter.
2. What kind of man showing up with the intent of having homosexual sex is going to be armed? While it's not impossible, it's still highly unlikely. And why pick such a remote rest stop looking for such sex? That doesn't make any sense. What are the odds that there would even be anyone there? Don't they usually leave "messages" on bathroom stalls and that's how they meet up? If Stefonek was indeed a closet homosexual, how would he have known which rest stop to pick since he wasn't from the area? And if the killer was looking for sex, how lucky would he have been to find someone that early in the morning?
3. The killer drove Stefonek's car away from the rest stop (probably abducting him), only to drive back to torch the car. It would have made more sense for the killer to have driven his own vehicle away from the rest stop (since he inteded on killing Dexter), since a pickup truck is the more logical choice to dispose of a body over Stefonek's station wagon.
4. Next we have the possibility that's been brought up that Stefonek baulked at the killer's sexual advances and that's why he was murdered. But there is no sign whatsoever that Stefonek was killed at the rest stop. The sheriff theorized that he was abducted at gunpoint and driven away from the rest stop. If this were indeed a "rage killing", wouldn't there be evidence that Stefonek was killed at the rest stop? And wouldn't this guy be embarassed more than anything about Stefonek's refusal? Why not simply let Stefonek go away, or kill him right then and there if the killer was so insensed?
5. There's also the possibility that the two of them went off together elsewhere (possibly the dump site where Dexter's body was found) to have their fling together. But this is absurd. They had an abandoned rest area right in front of them, and if that truely were there intent they would have used it.

So here's my theory:

Stefonek pulled into the rest stop that morning, most likely to use the bathroom. The killer was stranded there all night, because he probably ran out of gas. Remember it was winter time and the killer's truck may have been out of fuel, so he spent the whole night there probably freezing. Since this guy was probably deranged enough as it is (since he did have a weapon on him, and he did go through and murder Stefonek), tack on the fact that he spent the night out in the freezing cold and IMO you have the recipe for a ticking time bomb. This is essentially what mozartpc27 has stated in a previous post. When the killer saw Stefonek pull up, he probably asked him for a ride to a gas station. Stefonek either didn't hear him, or flat out refused to which there was probably a scuffle of some kind (there was evidence that Stefonek was beat before he was shot) and somehow the guy abducted Stefonek at gunpoint. At this point the killer knows he's gone too far, and he knows there's no turning back, so in his mind he rationalizes killing Stefonek. I don't think the killer was local to the area (since he had Arizona plates), but I do think it's very possible he was a trucker who passed through the area on his routes and was familiar with the area. Which is how he would know about the remote dump site, which is where I think Stefonek was killed. For some unknown reason the killer dumped some of his posessions, and then went to a gas station and got two containers of gas. This is an interesting part of the story IMO, because if he only bought one gas can than that would obviously be for the purpose of burning Stefonek's car. I think he got two because he truely was out of gas. This would also explain why the killer drove Stefonek's vehicle away from the rest stop, instead of his truck (since his vehicle was empty). And as sad as this is, I really think that was the motive behind Stefonek's murder.

This case kind of reminds me of the Dick Hansen case. There's all of these theories ranging from drugs to something sexual to off the wall stuff (like the 49erHugs license plate theory), and there's really no concrete evidence to back any of these theories up. In Hansen's case, I think he pissed off a pyschopath who was waiting to use a mailbox that Hansen was blocking, it's as simple as that. The same with Dexter Stefonek. He had the misfortune of being the first person that pulled up where this psychopath was stranded without gas. And when Stefonek didn't comply with his demands, he was unfortunately killed.

Very impressing TheCars1986! :) This actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

Yes, what about the writing in the mens rest room relating to the carjacker? he was meant to have wrote it. When did he write this on the wall?

I don't think "HOT JOCK" was the murderer. For one, why risk going back to the site were Stefonek's car was torched since the custodian saw the killer? Why even go back there at all for that matter? I think it was just someone who read about the murder in the paper. Unfortunatley UM left out a lot of the message, so all we can really do is speculate, but from the interview of the Sheriff it seemed like the only thing referenced was the month and a shooting at the rest stop. Seems like the real killer would have offered up more details to establish himself as the real killer if he were intent on taunting the police.

Getting into this story again and doing some research...not that this has anything to do w/ anything, but found some info on dexter stefonek and his wife...it looks like his wife had died while they were visiting his son in Oregon on christmas day?

Dexter W. Stefonek was born January 31, 1918, in Rhinelander, Oneida Co., WI, and died by being murdered November 19, 1985, near Glendive, Dawson Co., MT, at age 67. He is the son of John Aleck Stefonek of Minnesota and Ethel Schultz of Rhinelander, Oneida Co., WI.

Vivian E. Abbey was born November 17, 1905, in Rhinelander, Oneida Co., WI, and died December 25, 1984, in Portland, Multnomah Co., OR, at age 79. She is the daughter of Russel Lewis Abbey of Byron, Fond du Lac Co., WI, and Agnes A. Schmidt of the Village of Dorchester, Mayville Twp., Clark Co., WI.

Dexter W. Stefonek and Vivian E. Abbey were married December 15, 1940, in Rhinelander, Oneida Co., WI.

Dexter W. Stefonek and Vivian E. (Abbey) Stefonek had one child:

1.

David Michael Stefonek: Born May 5, 1941,

Getting into this story again and doing some research...not that this has anything to do w/ anything, but found some info on dexter stefonek and his wife...it looks like his wife had died while they were visiting his son in Oregon on christmas day?

That's interesting, and very sad to say the least. No wonder Dexter didn't have a problem driving cross country by himself. Probably needed to clear his head.

I don't think "HOT JOCK" was the murderer. For one, why risk going back to the site were Stefonek's car was torched since the custodian saw the killer? Why even go back there at all for that matter? I think it was just someone who read about the murder in the paper. Unfortunatley UM left out a lot of the message, so all we can really do is speculate, but from the interview of the Sheriff it seemed like the only thing referenced was the month and a shooting at the rest stop. Seems like the real killer would have offered up more details to establish himself as the real killer if he were intent on taunting the police.

The killer is either a local who moved to Montana from Arizona (explaining the plates) or someone from the south who passes through there frequently, so he is probably in the trucking business. He probably would have gone back because he just wasn't afraid of being spotted again. He probably didn't know the man he was spotted by when he got back to the rest stop was an employee there. He probably figured he was just a passer like himself, and would be forgotten easily.

The killer wouldn't offer much more detail than what he wrote because then he would be much closer to getting caught. The graffiti was probably just a way of taunting law enforcement, for his own pleasure. I remember another UM case where a little girl was murdered and the killer seemed to brag about it with graffiti (forget the name of the case though).

This man has probably killed before, or has done serious harm to others because judging by the custodian's description of him, he didn't seem to exhibit any signs of unusual behavior (he didn't appear nervous or stressed out or anything like that). Often times, even with serial killers, they seemed stressed out or need to "self-medicate" to deal with the terrible acts they just committed.

The killer wouldn't offer much more detail than what he wrote because then he would be much closer to getting caught. The graffiti was probably just a way of taunting law enforcement, for his own pleasure. I remember another UM case where a little girl was murdered and the killer seemed to brag about it with graffiti (forget the name of the case though).

IMO, if the real killer wanted to taunt police he would have provided more specific details to confirm that he was in fact the real killer. Kind of like the Zodiac killer mailing pieces of the shirt from one of his victims to police. He wanted them to know he was the real deal and that was the only way how. The vague details left by HOT JOCK could have been read by anyone in the newspaper. Hell, it could have even been some teenagers defacing the bathroom.

There is no indication of when Stefonek pulled into the rest area. In fact, Stefonek was never seen at the rest area by any of the eyewitnesses, just the big man with the gas. As I recall, the custodian pulled into the rest area at 8:30 AM and only the truck with the cowcatcher was there. So whatever happened to Stefonek as far as a confrontation at the rest area was long over and the man with the gas was already off disposing of the body and getting gas. For all we know, Stefonek could have pulled in during the night hours.

IMO, if the real killer wanted to taunt police he would have provided more specific details to confirm that he was in fact the real killer. Kind of like the Zodiac killer mailing pieces of the shirt from one of his victims to police. He wanted them to know he was the real deal and that was the only way how. The vague details left by HOT JOCK could have been read by anyone in the newspaper. Hell, it could have even been some teenagers defacing the bathroom.

We aren't told the contents of the message, however, so it's not possible to say how detailed it is. Certainly, "hot jock" may have nothing to do with it, but the fact that the contents of the graffito are a hold-back suggests to me that there is something not publicly known contained therein that render it a better clue.

And with such a vague description of the suspect, I doubt that he'd fear much exposure returning to the rest stop.

Here are some observations I noted when re-watching this segment:

For those that believe this may have been a sexually motived crime, I have to disagree. Here's why:

1. Stefonek reached the rest stop in the morning. Don't these homosexual rendezvous at rest stops usually happen at night? 9 o'clock in the morning is a very odd time for two men to meet to have a homosexual encounter.
2. What kind of man showing up with the intent of having homosexual sex is going to be armed? While it's not impossible, it's still highly unlikely. And why pick such a remote rest stop looking for such sex? That doesn't make any sense. What are the odds that there would even be anyone there? Don't they usually leave "messages" on bathroom stalls and that's how they meet up? If Stefonek was indeed a closet homosexual, how would he have known which rest stop to pick since he wasn't from the area? And if the killer was looking for sex, how lucky would he have been to find someone that early in the morning?
3. The killer drove Stefonek's car away from the rest stop (probably abducting him), only to drive back to torch the car. It would have made more sense for the killer to have driven his own vehicle away from the rest stop (since he inteded on killing Dexter), since a pickup truck is the more logical choice to dispose of a body over Stefonek's station wagon.
4. Next we have the possibility that's been brought up that Stefonek baulked at the killer's sexual advances and that's why he was murdered. But there is no sign whatsoever that Stefonek was killed at the rest stop. The sheriff theorized that he was abducted at gunpoint and driven away from the rest stop. If this were indeed a "rage killing", wouldn't there be evidence that Stefonek was killed at the rest stop? And wouldn't this guy be embarassed more than anything about Stefonek's refusal? Why not simply let Stefonek go away, or kill him right then and there if the killer was so insensed?
5. There's also the possibility that the two of them went off together elsewhere (possibly the dump site where Dexter's body was found) to have their fling together. But this is absurd. They had an abandoned rest area right in front of them, and if that truely were there intent they would have used it.

So here's my theory:

Stefonek pulled into the rest stop that morning, most likely to use the bathroom. The killer was stranded there all night, because he probably ran out of gas. Remember it was winter time and the killer's truck may have been out of fuel, so he spent the whole night there probably freezing. Since this guy was probably deranged enough as it is (since he did have a weapon on him, and he did go through and murder Stefonek), tack on the fact that he spent the night out in the freezing cold and IMO you have the recipe for a ticking time bomb. This is essentially what mozartpc27 has stated in a previous post. When the killer saw Stefonek pull up, he probably asked him for a ride to a gas station. Stefonek either didn't hear him, or flat out refused to which there was probably a scuffle of some kind (there was evidence that Stefonek was beat before he was shot) and somehow the guy abducted Stefonek at gunpoint. At this point the killer knows he's gone too far, and he knows there's no turning back, so in his mind he rationalizes killing Stefonek. I don't think the killer was local to the area (since he had Arizona plates), but I do think it's very possible he was a trucker who passed through the area on his routes and was familiar with the area. Which is how he would know about the remote dump site, which is where I think Stefonek was killed. For some unknown reason the killer dumped some of his posessions, and then went to a gas station and got two containers of gas. This is an interesting part of the story IMO, because if he only bought one gas can than that would obviously be for the purpose of burning Stefonek's car. I think he got two because he truely was out of gas. This would also explain why the killer drove Stefonek's vehicle away from the rest stop, instead of his truck (since his vehicle was empty). And as sad as this is, I really think that was the motive behind Stefonek's murder.

This case kind of reminds me of the Dick Hansen case. There's all of these theories ranging from drugs to something sexual to off the wall stuff (like the 49erHugs license plate theory), and there's really no concrete evidence to back any of these theories up. In Hansen's case, I think he pissed off a pyschopath who was waiting to use a mailbox that Hansen was blocking, it's as simple as that. The same with Dexter Stefonek. He had the misfortune of being the first person that pulled up where this psychopath was stranded without gas. And when Stefonek didn't comply with his demands, he was unfortunately killed.

I think this is a reasonable theory, based on the very little we know. I too doubt the sexual motive. There's no evidence of it and while sure, some rest areas were/are used for "cruising:" (a) there's no evidence this particular one was; (b) there's no (known) evidence of sexual assault on stefonak; (c) stefonak's use of the rest area is wholly consistant with their intended use: he's driving cross-country and he needs to pee, stretch legs, and/or rest. It'd be one thing if he's local - it would be weird to go to rest area close to your home, but not so much otherwise.

There is no indication of when Stefonek pulled into the rest area. In fact, Stefonek was never seen at the rest area by any of the eyewitnesses, just the big man with the gas. As I recall, the custodian pulled into the rest area at 8:30 AM and only the truck with the cowcatcher was there. So whatever happened to Stefonek as far as a confrontation at the rest area was long over and the man with the gas was already off disposing of the body and getting gas. For all we know, Stefonek could have pulled in during the night hours.

Based off of the timeline presented in UM, Stefonek, unless he was a speed demon, would have arrived in the early morning hours (8-8:30). The Sheriff recreated the timeline in the segment. Also we have to remember that Stefonek left his son's home on the morning of the 18th (heading out from Oregon), and the Bad Route Rest Area is almost to the eastern-most part of Montana, which is probably why law enforcement placed him arriving at the rest area in the morning on the 19th.

What time did the custodian arrive? Whatever went down must have been quick for Stefonek to pull in, be confronted by the killer, and then the car be driven away before the custodian's arrival.

And with such a vague description of the suspect, I doubt that he'd fear much exposure returning to the rest stop.

Maybe he had no need to return to the rest stop. If he was simply trying to return to Arizona to get back home, he would have no reason to return to Montana. This guy may not have been a local or a trucker. The killer simply could have been trying to return home (possibly traveling from somewhere east) and he happened to run out of fuel in Montana.

Maybe he had no need to return to the rest stop. If he was simply trying to return to Arizona to get back home, he would have no reason to return to Montana. This guy may not have been a local or a trucker. The killer simply could have been trying to return home (possibly traveling from somewhere east) and he happened to run out of fuel in Montana.

Perhaps not; however, if we accept that the dumping at the landfill implied a general familiarly with the area (and in the pre-GPS and google maps age, it almost certainly did), he might have been back in the area sometime later.

The Arizona plate is such a weird clue. It's a unique enough remembrance that it's likely true, but raises as many questions as it answers.

The Arizona plate is such a weird clue. It's a unique enough remembrance that it's likely true, but raises as many questions as it answers.

This is interesting....he probably, in most likelihood, never came back into the area. What if, he did dump Dexter's body and his luggage in the dump site that day. The woman that saw the clothes at the dump that weren't there the week earlier, perhaps someone at the dump found the luggage and opened it and went through the belongings to see if there were anything good...that is how the clothes could have been scattered.. I bet this suspect went straight on to AZ and has never been close to being connected to this crime

Perhaps not; however, if we accept that the dumping at the landfill implied a general familiarly with the area (and in the pre-GPS and google maps age, it almost certainly did), he might have been back in the area sometime later.

I've often thought about since he dumped Stefonek's body in such a remote landfill he must have had some familiarity with the locale, but he also could just have easily asked someone at the gas station where he got gas if there was an area to dump trash nearby.

I've often thought about since he dumped Stefonek's body in such a remote landfill he must have had some familiarity with the locale, but he also could just have easily asked someone at the gas station where he got gas if there was an area to dump trash nearby.
If it was a close-knit area, wouldn't someone with a plate from another state asking about a dump site raise some questions? Just a thought, not saying that it couldn't have happened of course.

I've often thought about since he dumped Stefonek's body in such a remote landfill he must have had some familiarity with the locale, but he also could just have easily asked someone at the gas station where he got gas if there was an area to dump trash nearby.

Possible, I suppose, but: (a) it's unlikely no-one would remember such a question; and (b) there's still a good chance of getting lost and/or turned around on unmarked and/or dirt roads (which, I would imagine many of the back roads in the area are) even with directions.

If it was a close-knit area, wouldn't someone with a plate from another state asking about a dump site raise some questions? Just a thought, not saying that it couldn't have happened of course.

Most likely. I also think seeing an out of state license plate would raise some interest from someone who may have seen the killer at the gas station. Not to mention the fact that he was filling up two gas containers.

Whoever that guy was at the Bad Route rest area that was seen driving Dexter Stefonek's car is the killer. This case falls into the same category as the hit and run in North Carolina and Dwayne McCorkandale cases. Long shots at best of being solved just due to the fact that they happened out on the open road. :(

Was thinking about this case today over lunch.

I think the theory proposed by the police and elaborated on by posters here about the killer being stranded at the rest stop and out of gas then encountering Dexter makes the most sense.

However, there are a few things that I want to address...

- Dexter's body was discovered in the landfill roughly four months after he was last seen and his car was found ablaze.

- The couple who discovered Dexter's body found Dexter's wallet, suitcase and other items first.

- Upon discovering these items, the couple further search the landfill and eventually they found Dexter's body.

- Autopsy revealed that Dexter's body had been in the landfill for several months, probably since Dexter's disappearance from the rest stop.

- The couple who discovered the body claimed they had been at the landfill a week prior and not seen the items.

- The discovery of Dexter's body prompted the police to search the Bad Route Rest Stop again at which point the "HotJock" graffiti was found.

What does all of this mean?

This leads me to think that Dexter's killer wanted the police and public to know that Dexter was dead and had been murdered. I think the killer initially disposed of Dexter's body in the landfill where it went undiscovered for four months. At that point, I think he returned and scattered the items (that were either in his possession the whole time or perhaps more discretely hidden in the landfill). By doing this, he guaranteed that the body would be found in short order. I think it is also likely he returned to the rest stop and left the graffiti.

What I don't get is - why?

The "stranded without gas" theory makes it seem like Dexter's murder was a random rage killing orchestrated by someone with a short fuse who then sloppily covered it up.

Yet, the disposal of the body, the elaborate countermeasure of burning the car (assuming it was a countermeasure), and the need to "show off" and make a statement to authorities seem more like the act of a confident killer who has committed similar offenses before, and perhaps has more of a personal motive for committing such crimes.

It just doesn't wash, IMO. There has to be a piece missing somewhere or an angle not being explored.

Yet, the disposal of the body, the elaborate countermeasure of burning the car (assuming it was a countermeasure), and the need to "show off" and make a statement to authorities seem more like the act of a confident killer who has committed similar offenses before, and perhaps has more of a personal motive for committing such crimes.

It just doesn't wash, IMO. There has to be a piece missing somewhere or an angle not being explored.

I disagree about the burning of the car. I don't think this was the act of a cool, confident killer. On the surface it seems pretty brazen for him to actually return to the rest stop where he abducted Dexter to torch the car, but I think he did this as a necessity. IMO, the killer had to commandeer Dexter's car since his own was out of gas. I think he took Dexter at gunpoint, killed him, dumped his body and some possesions, and then went back to the rest area where his truck was parked at. I think the burning of the car was a desperate attempt to cover up the crime. By burning Dexter's car, this tells me the killer wanted every trace of his existence wiped away. The main reason why I think this was a desperate act was because this was years before the advanced forensic technology that could find things such as DNA, fiber evidence, etc. Back then, most killers were not even aware that such things could be found frome crime scenes. IMO, an experienced killer would have simply parked Dexter's car and left. Sticking around to burn it (thereby increasing his chance of being caught) just screams desperation to me. And I don't think that gels with the "HOTJOCK" graffiti writer. He was concerned enough to conceal his crime by burning the car, so why would he return to the same exact rest stop later to flaunt his crime? And had the killer wanted it to be known that he killed Dexter, why not grab his license and stick it on the windshield of Dexter's vehicle with a sick message? There were a number of things the killer could have done (besides writing on a bathroom wall) that would have really taunted police.

I also think the scattering of Dexter's possessions may have been done by another random person who went to the dump site. Perhaps they went there to dump some trash, saw some of Dexter's things and rifled through them, found his wallet, suitcase, etc. That would explain why everything appeared to be scattered. Just my two cents.

Oh man, that's scary! I always shudder when I read about things that even mention Washington State.

Oh man, that's scary! I always shudder when I read about things that even mention Washington State.

Actually, the OP worded the title of the thread wrong. Dexter Stefonek was from Wisconsin. He had been to Oregon (not Washington state) and was on his way home. He was killed in Montana.

This leads me to think that Dexter's killer wanted the police and public to know that Dexter was dead and had been murdered. I think the killer initially disposed of Dexter's body in the landfill where it went undiscovered for four months. At that point, I think he returned and scattered the items (that were either in his possession the whole time or perhaps more discretely hidden in the landfill). By doing this, he guaranteed that the body would be found in short order. I think it is also likely he returned to the rest stop and left the graffiti.

What I don't get is - why?

The "stranded without gas" theory makes it seem like Dexter's murder was a random rage killing orchestrated by someone with a short fuse who then sloppily covered it up.

Yet, the disposal of the body, the elaborate countermeasure of burning the car (assuming it was a countermeasure), and the need to "show off" and make a statement to authorities seem more like the act of a confident killer who has committed similar offenses before, and perhaps has more of a personal motive for committing such crimes.

It just doesn't wash, IMO. There has to be a piece missing somewhere or an angle not being explored.

I disagree about the burning of the car. I don't think this was the act of a cool, confident killer. On the surface it seems pretty brazen for him to actually return to the rest stop where he abducted Dexter to torch the car, but I think he did this as a necessity. IMO, the killer had to commandeer Dexter's car since his own was out of gas. I think he took Dexter at gunpoint, killed him, dumped his body and some possesions, and then went back to the rest area where his truck was parked at. I think the burning of the car was a desperate attempt to cover up the crime. By burning Dexter's car, this tells me the killer wanted every trace of his existence wiped away. The main reason why I think this was a desperate act was because this was years before the advanced forensic technology that could find things such as DNA, fiber evidence, etc. Back then, most killers were not even aware that such things could be found frome crime scenes. IMO, an experienced killer would have simply parked Dexter's car and left. Sticking around to burn it (thereby increasing his chance of being caught) just screams desperation to me. And I don't think that gels with the "HOTJOCK" graffiti writer. He was concerned enough to conceal his crime by burning the car, so why would he return to the same exact rest stop later to flaunt his crime? And had the killer wanted it to be known that he killed Dexter, why not grab his license and stick it on the windshield of Dexter's vehicle with a sick message? There were a number of things the killer could have done (besides writing on a bathroom wall) that would have really taunted police.

I also think the scattering of Dexter's possessions may have been done by another random person who went to the dump site. Perhaps they went there to dump some trash, saw some of Dexter's things and rifled through them, found his wallet, suitcase, etc. That would explain why everything appeared to be scattered. Just my two cents.

I've been thinking about this case a lot recently. I don't know what to make of the person who likely killed Dexter.

Is he local or transient? Dump sites and landfills are not usually in conspicuous locations. The dump was 17 miles away from the Bad Route rest area. A local would be able to get to a dump relatively quickly. Even if he doesn't know exactly where it is, he would know the area well enough to be able to find it within the time constraints ("shortly after" 7:00 AM to approximately 9:30 AM).*

However, his vehicle has Arizona plates and he's at a rest area just off I-94, which leads one to believe he's transient. Of course, that truck doesn't necessarily have to belong to him. It could be borrowed or stolen, or its tags could be stolen.

Was the murder calculated or impromptu? I think justin pretty well covered that in April, so I won't rehash what he posted. On the other hand, Cars makes a good point about burning the car. It's an ambiguous act, I think. I could just as easily see someone burning the car as a distractionary or attention-getting measure as I could someone doing it in a frenzied panic to attempt to get rid of evidence.


I'm also unsure about Sheriff George's reconstruction of the crime. I don't think it necessarily had to unfold with Dexter entering the rest area a little after seven on the morning of the 19th, with his killer already there. By UM's account, Dexter said he wasn't going to stop at motels to sleep; he'd just pull in to rest stops. Dexter could have been the one already there.

It would make sense for someone simply out to commit a homicide to lay in wait early in the morning or late at night at a rest stop for a victim to arrive: the rest area will likely be deserted. By waiting in an empty rest area, the killer has the opportunity to assess each individual arriving at the stop. If Dexter was already there (and perhaps reclined and asleep inside his car), there's no quick way to assess to whom that vehicle belongs. It could just as easily be someone with undesirable traits for a potential victim as it could be an "easy target". In fact, the killer might decide not to even pull in in the first place. He's already lost a little bit of control over the situation.

I also think it would make just as much sense for someone to pull in to a rest stop if he's run out of gas in order to wait for another motorist, or highway department personnel or a state trooper to arrive, especially if it's bitterly cold outside. However, the latter isn't dependent on an empty rest area. It doesn't matter if there's anyone there or not when you get there--somebody is probably going to come by. But seeing a parked car might make the location more attractive to someone who's looking for assistance (coerced or otherwise).

I can't fully reconcile the gasoline situation. Did the man really run out of fuel for his truck, or did he just want to be able to burn Dexter's car after the murder?

1. He took Dexter's car, instead of forcing Dexter into his truck.

2. The reenactment portrays the unidentified man at least making like he's trying to fill up his truck's tank in front of Fred Quigley, but of course the segments are rarely totally accurate.

3. The truck apparently had enough fuel to be able to get out of the area after Dexter's vehicle was torched.


Those things seem to be--for what they're worth--more indicative of this person actually running out of gasoline to me, rather than someone primarily waiting to ambush a victim at a rest area.


The belongings at the dump. I think Cars offers a good possible explanation, that Dexter's belongings had actually been in the dump the entire time in less conspicuous places, and perhaps someone or a group of people had pilfered through them before the Shaws discovered them. On the other hand, why weren't any of them taken? There was money in his suitcase, and his items were relatively new and in good condition.

justin suggested that the killer returned to the dump and deliberately scattered the items to draw attention later. But why?

I don't know what to make of that, either.


The restroom graffiti. We don't know what the full message is, but we know "Hotjock", "Wisconsin", "shot", and "November 1985" figure in. I'm also not aware of when it was actually discovered myself. I know RS narrates that it was "one week later", but was that after Dexter was discovered in the dump, or after his car was found at the rest stop? I assume it was the former. If so, that graffiti could have been written by anyone who'd read a news article or watched a news report on the story. It didn't have to be Dexter's murderer. But it would gel with the notion of the killer wanting to draw attention, of course.


After much consideration, at this point I lean toward these possibilities:

1. The killer is a local, or used to live in the area.
2. The killer's vehicle may be borrowed or stolen, or its tags may be stolen.
3. The killer did in fact run out of gasoline, and pulled in to the rest stop in order to seek help (coerced or otherwise) from the owner of the vehicle in the parking lot (Dexter), or to wait for someone to arrive (Dexter).
4. The killer might not have been the restroom graffiti author.



But that dump site scene. Why did those belongings turn up conspicuously after four months?

I'm aware this was rather long, but just wanted to share my thoughts in case anyone wanted to discuss it now or later on.


*On the other hand, that's a two-and-a-half hour ordeal. We don't really know much about what happened between those two times except:

1. Dexter and the killer met at the rest stop
2. Dexter was shot and his body left at that dump
3. Some gasoline was purchased somewhere
4. The killer returned to the rest stop (encountering Fred Quigley) and burned Dexter's car

Is that a nearly three-hour kind of endeavor? I suppose that's more a matter of opinion given what information we have, but knowing the killer had to drive at least 34 miles (from and back to the rest area), it doesn't seem incredible to me given the other things the killer did in that time frame.

Archived article from a 1989 Spokane, WA newspaper. Not a whole lot we all don't already know, but it does mention the dump was off a dirt road and "used by few people"--five families, as stated:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19890406&id=nVlWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xO8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6130,4113625

I wonder if that dump is still used today.

I don't normally like to nitpick mistakes, but I always cringe at the title of this thread. Unfortunately, the OP hasn't posted in 7 years, so I fear we're stuck with it for all eternity.

just watched this case again


had to either be a local or someone who never came back (and someone else went through the suitcase to look for items)

I kind of think this guy was on the run from another crime (or just on the run) and was on his way to Canada or something. The rest stop is just off the freeway and serves both directions of traffic. I think he was looking for a quick buck more than anything.

I've always felt the guy didn't run out of gas but got it to torch the car. When he saw the worker he played it off to help avoid suspicion. You would think robbery was a motive but the fact that money was left makes you wonder. It's weird they didn't see the body at the dump when they were there before. This case is baffling since there was no reason for the murder and no explanation.

I've been to rest areas late at night and they were almost always empty. Sometimes you would see another person or two but not many. Not a place I would want to stay overnight in.

I've always felt the guy didn't run out of gas but got it to torch the car. When he saw the worker he played it off to help avoid suspicion. You would think robbery was a motive but the fact that money was left makes you wonder. It's weird they didn't see the body at the dump when they were there before. This case is baffling since there was no reason for the murder and no explanation.

But the guy used Dexter's car to take Dexter away from the rest stop, murder him and dump his body, and then he returned with two gas cans. One was to torch the car, the other was IMO to refill his vehicle. I don't see why he would have comandeered Dexter's vehicle if his was perfectly fine.

That's true. This case just shows how crazy people can be at times and some of the evil things they do with no real explanation.

That's true. This case just shows how crazy people can be at times and some of the evil things they do with no real explanation.

^ This.


I think this was someone who didn't live in the area at the time of the murder, but did live there at some point in time or maybe even grew up there, or was a local using a borrowed or stolen vehicle. There just seems to be no other reasonable explanation for how he knew about that out-of-the-way private dump.

She was driving on Interstate 85 north, on her way from Raleigh NC to 95 north, where she would go to Richmond Va. Yeah, it was extremely scary to think of my mom in that situation! The rest area was on 85 North.


Wow. I was just reading this thread, and I noticed the post about your Mom. The same thing happened to me on I-95 near the NC/SC border in 2006. In my case, it was clearly two guys working together. Thank God for intuition, or I am not sure I would have made it to my car.

^ This.


I think this was someone who didn't live in the area at the time of the murder, but did live there at some point in time or maybe even grew up there, or was a local using a borrowed or stolen vehicle. There just seems to be no other reasonable explanation for how he knew about that out-of-the-way private dump.
Yep AZ plates was a long way away. Would like to see this solved. They got a distinct vehicle description but probably was altered right away like so many other cases when this happens.

I figured this case would be solved by now but sadly it hasn't been.

I watched this again last night.

A couple things bothered me that I'd like to briefly elaborate on...

1. The landfill.

I still find it odd that the body seemingly sat in that landfill since the time of Dexter's murder yet went undiscovered for weeks until his possessions were found conspicuously scattered around the landfill.

Some posters have speculated that perhaps someone (other than the folks who found Stefonek's body) had been at the landfill prior to the body's discovery, rifled through these items, possibly found the body themselves, and were afraid to notify the authorities.

While this is entirely possible, the lady who found Dex's body was certain that those items were not in the landfill prior to her and her husband finding them. Additionally, the suitcase contained money, which wasn't taken either by the killer, or presumably by this unknown party who rifled through the items in the landfill.

2. The graffiti. Stack's narration implies it was found after the discovery of the body in the landfill.

The entire message is not disclosed on UM. However, I find it interesting that the police seem so convinced that the graffiti was written by the killer. I can't help but wonder if possibly there were some details about the crime disclosed in the graffiti that had not been released to the public and that only the killer would know.

My overall point is that the discovery of these two things - the body by way of more conspicuous placement of Dex's belongings and the graffiti could suggest that the killer wanted the world to be know that Dexter was dead and had been murdered. Perhaps he figured that either someone would find the body, or the graffiti, or both.

Moreover, the theory that the killer did not return to the landfill and scatter the items and did not write the graffiti requires the introduction of two unknown variables - a person to find the body and not report, and someone to write the graffiti - apparently operating independently from one another. It seems unlikely.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it makes more sense to think that one person was behind all of this. This is, afterall, what the police seem to think occurred, and they obviously have access to more information than we do.

I watched this again last night.

A couple things bothered me that I'd like to briefly elaborate on...

1. The landfill.

I still find it odd that the body seemingly sat in that landfill since the time of Dexter's murder yet went undiscovered for weeks until his possessions were found conspicuously scattered around the landfill.

Some posters have speculated that perhaps someone (other than the folks who found Stefonek's body) had been at the landfill prior to the body's discovery, rifled through these items, possibly found the body themselves, and were afraid to notify the authorities.

While this is entirely possible, the lady who found Dex's body was certain that those items were not in the landfill prior to her and her husband finding them. Additionally, the suitcase contained money, which wasn't taken either by the killer, or presumably by this unknown party who rifled through the items in the landfill.

2. The graffiti. Stack's narration implies it was found after the discovery of the body in the landfill.

The entire message is not disclosed on UM. However, I find it interesting that the police seem so convinced that the graffiti was written by the killer. I can't help but wonder if possibly there were some details about the crime disclosed in the graffiti that had not been released to the public and that only the killer would know.

My overall point is that the discovery of these two things - the body by way of more conspicuous placement of Dex's belongings and the graffiti could suggest that the killer wanted the world to be know that Dexter was dead and had been murdered. Perhaps he figured that either someone would find the body, or the graffiti, or both.

Moreover, the theory that the killer did not return to the landfill and scatter the items and did not write the graffiti requires the introduction of two unknown variables - a person to find the body and not report, and someone to write the graffiti - apparently operating independently from one another. It seems unlikely.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it makes more sense to think that one person was behind all of this. This is, afterall, what the police seem to think occurred, and they obviously have access to more information than we do.
Yeah these were all perplexing details. It seems like the more I watch UM the more I realize that almost every case has a twist or turn to it that makes it strange or more mysterious. As you say often times we don't get the whole story.

Every time I watched this one I find it odd that such a distinct vehicle could get away. Same thing with Angela Hammond and carol and others like it. My guess is they had their vehicles altered shortly after. My thought would be the murderer was a transient to be able to get away with this and not be found to be suspicious. Could it be possible that he disposed of the body somewhere and it transported to the landfill? Also how long between the murder discovery and the get away? This could explain if he had time to get back to Arizona if that's where he was from. As far as the writing on the bathroom that could have been a prank especially with the 666 thing. If it is a local that did all of this then I don't understand how they could get away with it.

As a gay man, I have to say, I knew right away that the "hot jock" graffiti was a proposition for sex and almost felt like it was ridiculous that they wouldn't figure that out. It was long before my time, I wasn't even born yet... but as other people mentioned, guys used to write on stall walls with a date for other guys to meet them. This was in the days before craigslist and phone hookup apps. "Hot Jock" was someone describing themselves. I suppose it's possible that it COULD have something to do with the murder, but I doubt it. Regardless, I think it goes to show that random sex happened there, since usually it occurs at a place that is known to a lot of men. It's called "cruising". Perhaps Dexter showed up the day that was indicated and met with foul play from this person. However, if this person was truly a "hot jock" it makes you wonder why he would proposition an elderly man or why, if rejected, he would become violently angry. The simple answer is usually the correct one, and most likely the person who wrote it was just a local, a trucker or someone who travels for work, and knew when they would be back in the area...so they put a specific date. Others have mentioned that the entire message wasn't revealed...it's possible that is because it had other graphic sexual descriptions they didn't want to mention. I'm guessing they were still stepping lightly when it came to homosexuality on prime time television. Another thing is that they say it had a date "indicating November", well...unless it was the actual day he was abducted, then I REALLY think it has nothing to do with Dexter's murder. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll ever know. I always thought this story was creepy.

As a gay man, I have to say, I knew right away that the "hot jock" graffiti was a proposition for sex and almost felt like it was ridiculous that they wouldn't figure that out. It was long before my time, I wasn't even born yet... but as other people mentioned, guys used to write on stall walls with a date for other guys to meet them. This was in the days before craigslist and phone hookup apps. "Hot Jock" was someone describing themselves. I suppose it's possible that it COULD have something to do with the murder, but I doubt it. Regardless, I think it goes to show that random sex happened there, since usually it occurs at a place that is known to a lot of men. It's called "cruising". Perhaps Dexter showed up the day that was indicated and met with foul play from this person. However, if this person was truly a "hot jock" it makes you wonder why he would proposition an elderly man or why, if rejected, he would become violently angry. The simple answer is usually the correct one, and most likely the person who wrote it was just a local, a trucker or someone who travels for work, and knew when they would be back in the area...so they put a specific date. Others have mentioned that the entire message wasn't revealed...it's possible that is because it had other graphic sexual descriptions they didn't want to mention. I'm guessing they were still stepping lightly when it came to homosexuality on prime time television. Another thing is that they say it had a date "indicating November", well...unless it was the actual day he was abducted, then I REALLY think it has nothing to do with Dexter's murder. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll ever know. I always thought this story was creepy. excellent post! I too don't believe that the graffiti came from the killer. I think that was a stretch and perhaps law enforcement was desperate for leads as they often are. Given the out of town plates and no suspect I highly doubt the killer was a local. Maybe at best he had some kind of ties to the area but he must have been a transient.

IIRC, LE said that the graffiti contained information that only the killer would know. I believe UM wouldn't show the full message for this reason.

As a gay man, I have to say, I knew right away that the "hot jock" graffiti was a proposition for sex and almost felt like it was ridiculous that they wouldn't figure that out. It was long before my time, I wasn't even born yet... but as other people mentioned, guys used to write on stall walls with a date for other guys to meet them. This was in the days before craigslist and phone hookup apps. "Hot Jock" was someone describing themselves. I suppose it's possible that it COULD have something to do with the murder, but I doubt it. Regardless, I think it goes to show that random sex happened there, since usually it occurs at a place that is known to a lot of men. It's called "cruising". Perhaps Dexter showed up the day that was indicated and met with foul play from this person. However, if this person was truly a "hot jock" it makes you wonder why he would proposition an elderly man or why, if rejected, he would become violently angry. The simple answer is usually the correct one, and most likely the person who wrote it was just a local, a trucker or someone who travels for work, and knew when they would be back in the area...so they put a specific date. Others have mentioned that the entire message wasn't revealed...it's possible that is because it had other graphic sexual descriptions they didn't want to mention. I'm guessing they were still stepping lightly when it came to homosexuality on prime time television. Another thing is that they say it had a date "indicating November", well...unless it was the actual day he was abducted, then I REALLY think it has nothing to do with Dexter's murder. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll ever know. I always thought this story was creepy.

Interesting post. I have always wondered about the possible homosexual overtones of the case myself even though the evidence is somewhat scant. I suppose my thinking of that was because of the "Hot Jock" reference in the graffiti as well as the location of the majority of the action in this case - the highway rest stop. Also, for what it's worth, I have a synopsis of the case from Cosgrove Meurer, and the synopsis indicates that the graffiti WAS sexual in nature.

In terms of a motive tying to homosexuality, I wonder if someone could have propositioned Dex and he responded with a slur which angered the offender. I think it could also be possible Dex propositioned someone, or did something that someone construed as proposition for sex and was offended.

Dex was beaten before being shot. He was an elderly man, why was this necessary? The killer was ticked about something.

Dex was beaten before being shot. He was an elderly man, why was this necessary? The killer was ticked about something.

I think we're reading too much into the homosexual angle, personally. I think the killer was stranded at the rest stop and freezing. He approaches Dexter and asks for help, Dexter, since he had a hearing problem, either didn't respond or brushed him off which incensed the guy into beating him and commandeering his car.

IIRC, LE said that the graffiti contained information that only the killer would know. I believe UM wouldn't show the full message for this reason.
Yes that is what the detective said. the hotjock and 666 messages just didn't make sense to me. It would be nice to know what the other details were or how they know only the killer would know it.

Dex was beaten before being shot. He was an elderly man, why was this necessary? The killer was ticked about something.Just watched this episode for the first time in years the other day.

I'd say road rage is the most likely explanation. Take into account, Dexter's age, a car that wasn't exactly built for speed and driver fatigue probably pissed off the lunatic that killed him and with someone who acted with so much rage, it probably wouldn't have taken much of a spark to set him off.

Just watched this episode for the first time in years the other day.

I'd say road rage is the most likely explanation. Take into account, Dexter's age, a car that wasn't exactly built for speed and driver fatigue probably pissed off the lunatic that killed him and with someone who acted with so much rage, it probably wouldn't have taken much of a spark to set him off.

Eh, I don't know. Someone impulsive enough to murder an elderly man before 8 AM over a road rage incident just doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would be willing to invest hours into driving to the dump site, buying gasoline, and burning the car away from the body in a very public area.

Eh, I don't know. Someone impulsive enough to murder an elderly man before 8 AM over a road rage incident just doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would be willing to invest hours into driving to the dump site, buying gasoline, and burning the car away from the body in a very public area.Eh, who says the psycopathic mind is predictable?

I do think road rage is a legit theory. But didn't the perp run out of gas? Or was that a theory too? I can't remember if he ran out of gas or just used that as an excuse to help start the blaze. Man it seems like I've seen this case a million times and i still can't remember the exact details.

I do think road rage is a legit theory. But didn't the perp run out of gas? Or was that a theory too? I can't remember if he ran out of gas or just used that as an excuse to help start the blaze. Man it seems like I've seen this case a million times and i still can't remember the exact details.

That was the theory presented in the segment, IIRC. I 100% believe that was the motive in this case. Guy ran out of gas, was stranded in the freezing cold for hours, and just lost it.

Eh, who says the psycopathic mind is predictable?

Isn't that what you did--make a prediction on the so-called psychopathic mind?

Isn't that what you did--make a prediction on the so-called psychopathic mind?Well if that's what you wanna call it then maybe so but do you have a better explanation?

Well if that's what you wanna call it then maybe so but do you have a better explanation?

I have a theory. I've posted in this thread several times over the years. If you're interested, you can find it a few pages back. If not, suit yourself.

I have a theory. I've posted in this thread several times over the years. If you're interested, you can find it a few pages back. If not, suit yourself.:rolleyes:

Found it on page 8. Some interesting theories there. You may be right and I may be wrong and vice-versa but going on more than 30 years now the chances of anybody being proven right or wrong are incredibly slim. I really wish this could have been long solved by now. Who knows what this murderer has done since 1984?

This has always been one of the saddest cases for me. Dexter loses his wife, and then gets murdered shortly after.

This has always been one of the saddest cases for me. Dexter loses his wife, and then gets murdered shortly after.

Yeah, it is for me too. I really hate when older folks are hurt or killed.

I Hate to repeat myself but what gets me is the uniqueness of the vehicle. If it were a local how did someone not know of the vehicle? There has to be a coincidence of how he was found later at the other site. I do agree with the idea that it may be someone who knew the area.

I Hate to repeat myself but what gets me is the uniqueness of the vehicle. If it were a local how did someone not know of the vehicle? There has to be a coincidence of how he was found later at the other site. I do agree with the idea that it may be someone who knew the area.

I think at the least he was probably was someone extremely familiar with the area, but largely because the dump site thing has always bothered me. I'm not sure I think it's likely a transient perpetrator just happened to stumble upon it.

And the more I think about it, the more utterly bizarre that car fire is to me, too.

I think at the least he was probably was someone extremely familiar with the area, but largely because the dump site thing has always bothered me. I'm not sure I think it's likely a transient perpetrator just happened to stumble upon it.

And the more I think about it, the more utterly bizarre that car fire is to me, too.
The whole thing was mysterious. Seems as if they got lucky. Someone has to know that vehicle. Poor dexter was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

IIRC, the guy bought two cans of gas. One was presumably for his own vehicle, and the other was for the torching of Dexter's car.

:rolleyes:

Found it on page 8. Some interesting theories there. You may be right and I may be wrong and vice-versa but going on more than 30 years now the chances of anybody being proven right or wrong are incredibly slim. I really wish this could have been long solved by now. Who knows what this murderer has done since 1984?

Cases like this one can be hard to solve because if the same crime isn't repeated again in the same area they can only go on what they find from the first crime.

Cases like this can be hard to solve because if the same crime isn't repeated again they can only go on what they find from the first crime.
True and that's what makes me believe the murderer was a drifter and a career criminal not necessarily a serial killer. There may be only one or two other people that know about the crime at best. All it takes is one person to talk. I watched it again this morning. there's just not a lot to go on. To me the best clue was the vehicle. Someone had to see it. Just need to right people to watch.

True and that's what makes me believe the murderer was a drifter and a career criminal not necessarily a serial killer. There may be only one or two other people that know about the crime at best. All it takes is one person to talk. I watched it again this morning. there's just not a lot to go on. To me the best clue was the vehicle. Someone had to see it. Just need to right people to watch.

He didn't need to go back, there was nothing there for him since his wife recently passed away at that time. If he wanted to go back why not wait until the spring to do it?

He didn't need to go back, there was nothing there for him since his wife recently passed away at that time. If he wanted to go back why not wait until the spring to do it?
Yeah I don't know it seems like his son dwelled on that to open the segment. You know sometimes people just have their minds made up and there's not a whole lot you can do to change it. This is so Unfortunate and I feel for his family.

Re-watching all my UM disks and as usual as each case plays I go online to see if any new information has been found about the case. While searching for Dexter I came upon a post from about a year ago on another message board. In case the link doesn't work the message reads:
"I am from glendive and have lived in montana for most of my life. I was born a pliley from my mother(now decesed) debra wallem(pliley)and my biological father phillip loyd pliley. I believe what my mother has always suspected. That he is the man invovled in this. He worked for haliburton out of arizona( perp had arizona plates). He drove truck for said company. He is from montana area(glasgow, glendive and knows area) and according to my mother, he was in location of glendive in the time frame of this ordeal. Only locals would know bout the dump where dexter was found. It was far from the rest stop and not convienient.no robbery occurred. Cash was still in the dexters wallet. My name is michael phillip peltier(was pliley but adopted peltier for name). My father was convicted of crimes prior to my birth and despire the little time i spent with him as a teen, i can believe he was capable of this. He was much older than i. I am 36 now in 2014. He has been passed since 2007 or 2008. I didnt care enough fo find the date relevant. Might not help but just passing off what i have heard. Im a glendive rssident"



here is the link
http://www.neurolux.com/thread.cfm?threadid=30504&messages=12

I hope the police have investigated this. Only a local would have used the dump, and finding a person with both Arizona and Montana connections is pretty rare.

Re-watching all my UM disks and as usual as each case plays I go online to see if any new information has been found about the case. While searching for Dexter I came upon a post from about a year ago on another message board. In case the link doesn't work the message reads:
"

here is the link
http://www.neurolux.com/thread.cfm?threadid=30504&messages=12

I hope the police have investigated this. Only a local would have used the dump, and finding a person with both Arizona and Montana connections is pretty rare.

Very interesting post. I have to say I kept reading it hoping for more information in terms of a motive or possibly more details about the other crimes this man has committed in the past or any other reasons WHY they think he was the perp aside from the Arizona connection (which was always really bizarre).

Even if this guy wasn't the perp (and odds are he wasn't) it did remind me of an unsettling prospect. If Dexter's killer is deceased, the chances of this crime being solved are very slim.

Re-watching all my UM disks and as usual as each case plays I go online to see if any new information has been found about the case. While searching for Dexter I came upon a post from about a year ago on another message board. In case the link doesn't work the message reads:
"

here is the link
http://www.neurolux.com/thread.cfm?threadid=30504&messages=12

I hope the police have investigated this. Only a local would have used the dump, and finding a person with both Arizona and Montana connections is pretty rare.

THIS is what I've been saying for years. Nice find!

I've always been convinced that it was a local or someone who USED to be local. There was no way for someone to just "happen" upon that dump where Dexter's body was found otherwise.

But yes. If the suspect is deceased, we'll never get our answers.

THIS is what I've been saying for years. Nice find!

I've always been convinced that it was a local or someone who USED to be local. There was no way for someone to just "happen" upon that dump where Dexter's body was found otherwise.

But yes. If the suspect is deceased, we'll never get our answers.

I agree with you. Similar to the dump site in the Frank Casteel case. Only a local would know that location, not some random passer by.

For what it's worth, I shot the guy an email and included a link to this thread.

I haven't seen this case in years. Man I wish I could find it. It was one of the scarier UM cases I can remember, right up there with the rest stop murders (where two more elderly people were killed).

Was looking at the Unsolved thread and the comments there suggest that the "hotjock" man was some sort of gay hookup gone bad. I suspect perhaps its a ploy to throw off investigators.

Was looking at the Unsolved thread and the comments there suggest that the "hotjock" man was some sort of gay hookup gone bad. I suspect perhaps its a ploy to throw off investigators.

I'm pretty sure "hot jock" is a gay hookup graffiti. Whether it's connected to this case, I don't know (UM wasn't specific on what the message said).

It has crossed my mind if perhaps Stefanok wasn't approached at the rest stop by someone wanting "favors." Perhaps he declined and was killed.

Not likely, but a possibility.

I think the whole Hot Jock graffiti looking for a hot hookup has nothing to do with the case and may have nothing to do for discrete gay men looking for a hookup. Some people may just writes things on the wall just write things .

i saw the episode on TV yesterday and i found this recent article online from the glen dive ranger review 11/30/2015 - (it won't let me post the link since i am a new poster)

it has some new information that i don't believe was mentioned before on here or elsewhere including the whole bathroom graffiti message:

“HOT JOCK SHOT WAD FROM WISCONSIN 11/85 SATURDAY THE 3rd.”

and some more details about Dexter's personal life at the time.
(a woman had turned down Dexter's request to marry her)

and that they did put the rest stop manager under hypnosis but that it didn't help find the truck

i saw the episode on TV yesterday and i found this recent article online from the glen dive ranger review 11/30/2015 - (it won't let me post the link since i am a new poster)

it has some new information that i don't believe was mentioned before on here or elsewhere including the whole bathroom graffiti message:

“HOT JOCK SHOT WAD FROM WISCONSIN 11/85 SATURDAY THE 3rd.”

and some more details about Dexter's personal life at the time.
(a woman had turned down Dexter's request to marry her)

and that they did put the rest stop manager under hypnosis but that it didn't help find the truck
So that was from lifetime? I heard they added the Dana pointe Jane doe update too. That's good to hear.

So that was from lifetime? I heard they added the Dana pointe Jane doe update too. That's good to hear.

no it wasn't updated on the episode, i just happened to find this recent article that had some new information it seemed.

no it wasn't updated on the episode, i just happened to find this recent article that had some new information it seemed.
oh ok welcome to the forum

i saw the episode on TV yesterday and i found this recent article online from the glen dive ranger review 11/30/2015 - (it won't let me post the link since i am a new poster)

it has some new information that i don't believe was mentioned before on here or elsewhere including the whole bathroom graffiti message:

“HOT JOCK SHOT WAD FROM WISCONSIN 11/85 SATURDAY THE 3rd.”

and some more details about Dexter's personal life at the time.
(a woman had turned down Dexter's request to marry her)

and that they did put the rest stop manager under hypnosis but that it didn't help find the truck


Welcome! Thanks for post, looks interesting!

the killer probably came back and scattered the belongings to prompt a search so that the body would be found... the trailside killer (who was eventually caught when he killed his neighbor) near SF actually killed a woman near where he had killed a couple so the first bodies would be found after they were not found for months

I had to attend a course at Fort McCoy Wisconsin in the late 1980s for a week. While I was there a salesman was found murdered at a rest stop on the interstate outside of Sparta. I've often wondered if the case was ever solved but with the little info I remember, haven't found anything online. Incidentally that's I-90, and about the same time frame as Dexter. I think both were selected at random because they were vulnerable parked or sleeping at a rural rest stop.

The more you think about this story--the stranger it is. Just no reason at all to burn the car at the rest stop after murdering the guy at another location or at the dumpsite.

the reason to burn the car is to point out the crime. the killer wanted the body to be found. he wanted credit...

could the killer have simply been there, saw the vulnerable guy, killed him used his car to get gas, took the body in his (the killer's) car and dumped the body? The motive: just wanted to kill somebody and needed gas.

I should point out that the McAllisters and Dexter Stefonek were both alone at the rest stops. Also, the surviving victim of the New England serial killer also was alone at a rest stop type area, so I would definitely recommend exercising caution when visiting a rest stop - check to see how many cars and people are around.

I'm not sure what case is being referred to as the New England Serial Killer. In the case of the Connecticut River Valley Killer, the one survivor (in a case I contend was not the same killer as the rest) was stopped in a supermarket parking lot getting a coke on a regular street with houses around it. However, the CRVK did kill a woman at an interstate rest stop during a blizzard. He left the car there but dumped the body in a field miles away where it was found in the spring.

The New Bedford Serial Killer murdered prostitutes and dumped them along highways. No rest stops, although one body was dumped in the grassy strip in the middle of an exit cloverleaf with id from another victim to insure the cops linked the crimes. the first victim was found around the time the last victim was killed. there were no survivors.

here is a link to the article ploll9 discovered:

http://www.rangerreview.com/news/thirty-year-old-bad-route-rest-area-murder-case-remains-unsolved-slideshow-2

How horrible that he died such a horrific death. One interesting thing though is this Gratias person being the last known person to see him alive (other than the murderer, of course). The segment implies Stefonek was on his way straight home to Wisconsin.

By the way, and not to get too graphic here, but the term "wad" threw me off at first because the definition of the term I was familiar with didn't really fit the sentence, so I went to Urban Dictionary, which had another definition, one that would suggest extreme anger on the part of the killer. (Please excuse the run-on sentence there).

That, coupled with the aforementioned violent beating/shooting death of Dexter, and now I'm confused more than ever as to what on Earth possible motive there could have been here. The killer seemed to have some extreme anger or personal vendetta against Dexter and it's unclear why.

here is a link to the article ploll9 discovered:

http://www.rangerreview.com/news/thirty-year-old-bad-route-rest-area-murder-case-remains-unsolved-slideshow-2

How horrible that he died such a horrific death. One interesting thing though is this Gratias person being the last known person to see him alive (other than the murderer, of course). The segment implies Stefonek was on his way straight home to Wisconsin.

interesting article. the dump site does not seem to be as remote as it has been portrayed (this is a general rule IMO as the word remote is used way too much). It was off an I-94 exit only 12 miles and two exits north of the rest stop and then only two miles down the road. While a local only would know of the impromptu dump along the road (which did come from an interstate), it does not seem that far fetched that someone passing through could have found the site by just getting off the interstate and driving a little. The road had creek in its name so maybe he thought he'd dump the body in a stream.

not mentioned in the article or anywhere really is the location of the nearest gas station. A map spot shows that to the east there are several gas stations on the west side of Glendive, but not right on the interstate. They are off exit 211 putting them about 19 miles from the rest stop and 7 miles from the exit for the dump site. (He theoretically could have dumped the body on the way to the gas station). The first gas stations right at the interstate are two miles farther east at exit 213, 21 miles away.
in the other direction the nearest gas station is at Terry off exit 176, 16 miles from the rest stop. we don't know what direction the killer was travelling as the rest stop can be approached from either direction of the interstate but the dump site implies he was going east.

The police probably checked out the gas stations but only after the body was found and by then memories would have faded, particularly if the stations were self service.

By the way, and not to get too graphic here, but the term "wad" threw me off at first because the definition of the term I was familiar with didn't really fit the sentence, so I went to Urban Dictionary, which had another definition, one that would suggest extreme anger on the part of the killer. (Please excuse the run-on sentence there).

That, coupled with the aforementioned violent beating/shooting death of Dexter, and now I'm confused more than ever as to what on Earth possible motive there could have been here. The killer seemed to have some extreme anger or personal vendetta against Dexter and it's unclear why.

wad in the meaning implied in the graffiti is so common that even I know it and seems to imply a homosexual meet up (not uncommon at rest stops during that era and is mocked in the movie There's Something about Mary). IMO it has nothing to do with the crime. The date given in the graffiti was 3 Nov 85 not 19 Nov 85. also interesting is the word Saturday. 3 Nov in 1985 was a Sunday not a Saturday. This may imply an event over the night of 2/3 November. 19 November was a Tuesday. Even the Wisconsin reference is not that out of line as I-94 runs right through the middle of Wisconsin.

That anecdote from article about Dexter asking a much younger woman to marry him is very interesting, along with the fact that he mailed her a letter right before he left his son's house in Oregon. It might explain why Dexter made the sudden decision to drive back home to Wisconsin since his son said that Dexter had originally been planning to spend the entire winter with the family and really had no reason to return home since he lived alone.

Of course, I don't think that any of this stuff has any bearing on the actual crime since I'm sure Dexter was murdered by some random psycho, but it's neat to learn some extra background about him.

That anecdote from article about Dexter asking a much younger woman to marry him is very interesting, along with the fact that he mailed her a letter right before he left his son's house in Oregon. It might explain why Dexter made the sudden decision to drive back home to Wisconsin since his son said that Dexter had originally been planning to spend the entire winter with the family and really had no reason to return home since he lived alone.

Of course, I don't think that any of this stuff has any bearing on the actual crime since I'm sure Dexter was murdered by some random psycho, but it's neat to learn some extra background about him.

the article implied that his daughter lived in the same town in Wisconsin and, of course the lady friend and her kids lived nearby so he wasn't really alone there.

the article also gives a different reason for the Oregon trip, implying it wasn't to visit his son (except as a bonus) but was a business trip.

That anecdote from article about Dexter asking a much younger woman to marry him is very interesting, along with the fact that he mailed her a letter right before he left his son's house in Oregon. It might explain why Dexter made the sudden decision to drive back home to Wisconsin since his son said that Dexter had originally been planning to spend the entire winter with the family and really had no reason to return home since he lived alone.

Of course, I don't think that any of this stuff has any bearing on the actual crime since I'm sure Dexter was murdered by some random psycho, but it's neat to learn some extra background about him.

This seems to point to another misconception on UM's part. They suggest that Dexter was very grief-stricken over his wife's death the previous year. That he was already in another relationship (which is rare, and especially at his age, and especially rare that his partner was half his age) seems to imply he got over it rather quickly.

This seems to point to another misconception on UM's part. They suggest that Dexter was very grief-stricken over his wife's death the previous year. That he was already in another relationship (which is rare, and especially at his age, and especially rare that his partner was half his age) seems to imply he got over it rather quickly.

Yeah, Dexter's son seemed to imply that since the one-year anniversary of his wife's death was approaching, it was a difficult time for Dexter and he just wanted some time for himself. However, I'd be inclined to think that Dexter's motivation for racing home so abruptly was so he could keep trying to convince this younger woman to marry him. That would also explain why he felt compelled to complete the drive as quickly as possible and pull into rest stops rather than stay at a motel (which turned out to be his undoing, unfortunately).

the article also gives a different reason for the Oregon trip, implying it wasn't to visit his son (except as a bonus) but was a business trip.

Yes, it's interesting that Dexter was planning to transport some cars from the Pacific Northwest to Wisconsin as part of some investment deal with Arnold Gratias (the father of the girl Dexter was hoping to marry, for those haven't read the article). Since the article says Gratias was the last known person to see Dexter alive and that he lived in Washington state, it seems like Dexter made a detour to visit him at some point after leaving his son's place. Again, I doubt any of this info has any connection to the crime, but I'm surprised UM didn't mention any of these details.

After thinking about this again and taking into account the recent article with the new info, I definitely think the motive was sexually-related. The biggest things that point to this are the location (rest stop) and the messaging on the bathroom wall. At first, I didn't think it was a likely theory due to Dexter's age, but considering this was a desolate area in a sparsely populated state, I'm thinking the killer was probably looking to hook up with the first man that came along. Perhaps Dexter said something to tick him off, although I admit that's entirely speculative. I can't think of anything else. Robbery was apparently not a motive. I initially thought road rage as a possibility as others did, but there are numerous reasons to believe that didn't happen. After that, there doesn't seem to be much left.

My personal theory was that this was a long distance trucker who lived in Arizona but had lived in that area of Montana before and was visiting it (still having family there or whatever). This might also explain something that was mentioned in the article about Dexter's body being in relative good condition after 5 months (except for the face and hands). Perhaps his body was being stored in a refrigerated truck for some time? That would also explain why his body wasn't found at the dump all that time.

I should also point out that the article mentions that Dexter's car was new at that point. This an interesting facet of the case for several reasons. One of them being that the killer decided to torch it rather than use it for personal use, sell it, or break it down and sell it for parts. Considering the car was new, he could have used it for a long time or sold it for a high price. That he didn't do any of these things again points away to robbery being a motive.

It still boggles my mind that he didn't even take the cash Dexter had on him. Why not? It's not traceable. Unless this was someone so financially well off that it was peanuts to him, but that seems unlikely.

Another thing I want to mention that hasn't been discussed before: I would imagine that since Dexter planned on spending the entire winter with his family, and that his car seemed rather compact as depicted by the segment, that his car was probably stuffed with his belongings. This is another reason I have a hard time believing the out-of-gas angle. Dexter probably didn't even have room in his car to take this guy to get gas in the first place, so with that in mind, how angry could the killer get at him?

I'd be curious to know the contents of the car, but since robbery apparently wasn't the motive, I can't imagine anything being stolen. It was stated his possessions were scattered over the dump site.

After thinking about this again and taking into account the recent article with the new info, I definitely think the motive was sexually-related. The biggest things that point to this are the location (rest stop) and the messaging on the bathroom wall. At first, I didn't think it was a likely theory due to Dexter's age, but considering this was a desolate area in a sparsely populated state, I'm thinking the killer was probably looking to hook up with the first man that came along. Perhaps Dexter said something to tick him off, although I admit that's entirely speculative. I can't think of anything else. Robbery was apparently not a motive. I initially thought road rage as a possibility as others did, but there are numerous reasons to believe that didn't happen. After that, there doesn't seem to be much left.

My personal theory was that this was a long distance trucker who lived in Arizona but had lived in that area of Montana before and was visiting it (still having family there or whatever). This might also explain something that was mentioned in the article about Dexter's body being in relative good condition after 5 months (except for the face and hands). Perhaps his body was being stored in a refrigerated truck for some time? That would also explain why his body wasn't found at the dump all that time.

Occam's Razor once again goes out the window!

Why would someone need a refrigerated truck in the winter in Montana?

There is no evidence indicated for the long range trucker (no truck) and homosexual rejection angles. But there is evidence for the rejected (by the poster) out of gas theory as a person who never came forward was actually seen pouring gas from a non-standard container into a vehicle (how did he get the gas?) that left the scene and for the arson angle as gasoline was poured into the back seat and ignited. There is also no evidence one way or another for the packed up car theory. Since the victim was just visiting Oregon on business and had a home in Wisconsin, why would the car be packed up like he was moving?

There is a lot of conjectural reading into this case when it seems that someone just needed gas and a way to get the gas and did not mind killing someone to get it. A fire was set to destroy evidence of the murder that may have been noticed before the killer could get away as he was seen by several people. The graffiti was dated two weeks before. No one noticed a packed car. It was cold out so a body would not decompose very fast.

there was creepy music all over this segment.

The theory put forth by some that "the killer waited all night at the rest stop for gas" doesn't fit the known facts of the case. If anyone was at the rest stop all night, it was almost certainly Dexter as the segment explicitly stated that he intended to stay in his car at rest stops as opposed to staying in motels. Therefore, it was the killer who drove into the rest stop in the morning and found Dexter and not vice versa.

As for the two gas cans, that's a red herring. The killer knows if he's spotted with one gas can but doesn't put it in his vehicle (because he's saving it for the arson), then that will come off as suspicious. By buying two gas cans and using one to put in his tank, he doesn't attract immediate attention. And in fact, it appears the person that saw him didn't pay all that much attention to him as he wasn't able to give off a good description of him.

While people running out of gas on the road does happen occasionally, it's not very common as most people are smart enough to avoid that type of thing. I imagine someone in such a remote area would pay extra added attention. And if the killer was local, as many suggest, I'm sure he would have known where the gas stations were and could have easily avoided running out of gas. And if he had a CB radio, which seems likely since he had a handle, I doubt he would have been stranded all night and could have just radioed for help.

Just doesn't make any sense.

The theory put forth by some that "the killer waited all night at the rest stop for gas" doesn't fit the known facts of the case. If anyone was at the rest stop all night, it was almost certainly Dexter as the segment explicitly stated that he intended to stay in his car at rest stops as opposed to staying in motels. Therefore, it was the killer who drove into the rest stop in the morning and found Dexter and not vice versa.

As for the two gas cans, that's a red herring. The killer knows if he's spotted with one gas can but doesn't put it in his vehicle (because he's saving it for the arson), then that will come off as suspicious. By buying two gas cans and using one to put in his tank, he doesn't attract immediate attention. And in fact, it appears the person that saw him didn't pay all that much attention to him as he wasn't able to give off a good description of him.

While people running out of gas on the road does happen occasionally, it's not very common as most people are smart enough to avoid that type of thing. I imagine someone in such a remote area would pay extra added attention. And if the killer was local, as many suggest, I'm sure he would have known where the gas stations were and could have easily avoided running out of gas. And if he had a CB radio, which seems likely since he had a handle, I doubt he would have been stranded all night and could have just radioed for help.

Just doesn't make any sense.

Running out of gas in a place where gas stations are at least 20 miles apart is not far fetched, particularly if the person is not from the area, which is implied by the AZ plates and the fact the dump site was off an interstate exit (ie not as remote as often depicted). The two gas bottles were undoubtedly because one nonstandard gas container would not have given enough gas to go 20 miles to get to the nearest gas station. to go 20 miles you'd need more than a gallon of gas. To start a car fire would not have required a lot of gas and may have been a last second decision by the killer to remove evidence since there would be gas left over in the containers as, without a funnel it is hard to get the gas at the bottom into the tank. (Yes I have had run out experiences years ago!). But it would be easy to pour the residual gas onto a back seat of a car.

While there is no proof that anyone slept all night at the rest stop (particularly Dexter), there is a question as to how a car could run out of gas at a rest stop instead of along the road. A plausible answer could be that the killer stopped there and ran out of gas by keeping his car running for heat, which implies he stopped to rest. Also the killer's vehicle was seen there without Dexter's being there. So where did the gas come from in the incorrect containers? Was he carrying it in his car just for such arson emergencies? Much more likely the killer had driven away in Dexter's car to get the gas when his car was seen there by itself.

Never heard of any proof that the killer had a CB radio or a "handle". The rest stop probably had a phone but maybe he didn't have change or the phone was out of order.

Does make sense to me a lot more than elaborate actions by the offender.

I have come to believe that the man who murdered Dexter Stefonek quite possibly is the same man who murdered Philip Fraser. Dexter was beaten and shot twice in the head, and found in Glendive, Montana in November 1985. Less than three years later, Philip Fraser was found dead in Stewart, British Columbia, having been shot three times (according to the autopsy report on his death certificate, which someone sent me awhile back). Witnesses in both cases saw a large/tall white male in possession of the victim's cars, although I don't know if a composite was created in the Stefonek case.

I also began to wonder if the Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg murders were somehow connected, as Seattle (where they were murdered) is in the northwest vicinity of the United States too, but both Jay and Tanya were beaten and strangled to death and not shot. Still curious as to a connection between the three cases.

I have come to believe that the man who murdered Dexter Stefonek quite possibly is the same man who murdered Philip Fraser. Dexter was beaten and shot twice in the head, and found in Glendive, Montana in November 1985. Less than three years later, Philip Fraser was found dead in Stewart, British Columbia, having been shot three times (according to the autopsy report on his death certificate, which someone sent me awhile back). Witnesses in both cases saw a large/tall white male in possession of the victim's cars, although I don't know if a composite was created in the Stefonek case.

I also began to wonder if the Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg murders were somehow connected, as Seattle (where they were murdered) is in the northwest vicinity of the United States too, but both Jay and Tanya were beaten and strangled to death and not shot. Still curious as to a connection between the three cases.
Interesting theory. I think Jay and Tanya were murdered by a sexual predator (primary motive) who had done serious jail time before committing this offense.

I think the person who killed Phillip Fraser and Dexter Stefonik's killer were more likely interested in robbery (and in Fraser's case, auto theft). Interesting theory that they might be connected, I'd never thought about it before.
Phillip's killer strikes me as an opportunist in particular. I don't think he was a particularly smart killer, but somehow has managed to avoid capture out of luck, or he fled far, far away. Wish we had a more conclusive idea of what Dexter's killer looked like. Dexter's killer strikes me as more devious and methodical, burning the evidence to hide the crime.

Interesting theory. I think Jay and Tanya were murdered by a sexual predator (primary motive) who had done serious jail time before committing this offense.

I think the person who killed Phillip Fraser and Dexter Stefonik's killer were more likely interested in robbery (and in Fraser's case, auto theft). Interesting theory that they might be connected, I'd never thought about it before.
Phillip's killer strikes me as an opportunist in particular. I don't think he was a particularly smart killer, but somehow has managed to avoid capture out of luck, or he fled far, far away. Wish we had a more conclusive idea of what Dexter's killer looked like. Dexter's killer strikes me as more devious and methodical, burning the evidence to hide the crime.


I think it is a longshot that these crimes are connected. Because they were all on UM there may be a tendency to believe that they are the only similar crimes committed during the time period and we all want to believe that there are fewer bad guys out there than there probably really are.
An out-of-state salesman was murdered on I-90 at a rest stop near Sparta, WI, in the same era, but I only know of the crime because I was there at the time. Last I heard it was still unsolved. No mention online.
The large geographical spread alone would make me think they are unconnected without any other evidence. Criminals just like to prey on people far from home in remote areas because it is easier to commit and get away with their crimes.

I find it hard to believe that the 'Murderer' of Dexter actually did what the actor portrayed in the segment. Just because Dexter apparently doesn't hear him asking for help he says 'Get out the car, get out the car' and pulls him out. Some of the UM segments are so cringe worthy.

I found this article written last year marking the 30 year anniversary of Dexter's murder:

http://www.rangerreview.com/news/thirty-year-old-bad-route-rest-area-murder-case-remains-unsolved-slideshow-2

One thing I found interesting in that article, was that the body was basically preserved due to the frigid weather, except for the hands and face, which had been completely knawed off by rats, making a visual identification impossible. It also provides the full text of what was written on the bathroom wall in the rest stop:

“HOT JOCK SHOT WAD FROM WISCONSIN 11/85 SATURDAY THE 3rd.”

The original investigator believes that was there from the very beginning, however, a new investigator was assigned to this case a few years back and he seems skeptical that it was left there by the killer.

One sad thing found in that article was that Dexter had proposed marriage to a woman he was interested in shortly before he was killed. She declined, citing their age difference but they kept in touch. Dexter sent her a letter from Oregon postmarked the day before he was killed. It read:

“I miss you and the children and the family worship. May the Lord be with you until we meet again. Love, Dexter.”

It also provides the full text of what was written on the bathroom wall in the rest stop:

“HOT JOCK SHOT WAD FROM WISCONSIN 11/85 SATURDAY THE 3rd.”

The original investigator believes that was there from the very beginning, however, a new investigator was assigned to this case a few years back and he seems skeptical that it was left there by the killer.

I think that graffiti has to do with homosexuality and is unrelated to Dexter's murder.

I know the comment is old, but interesting connection on the fraser case. Put me in the camp that does not believe that the cases are related. It is difficult to form a connection or even opinion/motive on the stefonek murderer because there is not nearly the amount of eye witness testimony in that case. Phillip's killer may have killed others, but I agree with wishfuldreamer that he did come across as desperate lucky to have gotten away with that crime. both crimes occurred in rural areas so there is that connection. I never thought that the bathroom graffiti was related.

What still to this day strikes me is the distinctive appearance of the vehicle with the Arizona plates. Someone out there knows that vehicle and perhaps he had it altered or ditched it somewhere. IMO that vehicle is the key to cracking the case.

“HOT JOCK SHOT WAD FROM WISCONSIN 11/85 SATURDAY THE 3rd.”

Oh my. Am I the only one who would have loved to hear Stack read that whole message? :lol:

I know the comment is old, but interesting connection on the fraser case. Put me in the camp that does not believe that the cases are related. It is difficult to form a connection or even opinion/motive on the stefonek murderer because there is not nearly the amount of eye witness testimony in that case. Phillip's killer may have killed others, but I agree with wishfuldreamer that he did come across as desperate lucky to have gotten away with that crime. both crimes occurred in rural areas so there is that connection. I never thought that the bathroom graffiti was related.

What still to this day strikes me is the distinctive appearance of the vehicle with the Arizona plates. Someone out there knows that vehicle and perhaps he had it altered or ditched it somewhere. IMO that vehicle is the key to cracking the case.

I think the likelihood of those murders being related is slim to none. Stefonek's killer was probably intimately familiar with that particular area in Montana--despite his Arizona plates--because the dump site was nearly twenty miles away from the rest area and was an "unofficial" location used by about five local families, IIRC.

I wonder if those living in the area around the dump site were questioned to tease out whether they had friends or relatives who had lived, or were still currently living in Arizona.

I would be more apt to think the graffiti was related if the date had been correct. Dexter Stefonek was most likely killed on November 19, 1985: a Tuesday, over two weeks past the listed date. November 3, 1985 also wasn't a Saturday--it was a Sunday. Easy error to make if whatever event that took place occurred at night, however.

I think the likelihood of those murders being related is slim to none. Stefonek's killer was probably intimately familiar with that particular area in Montana--despite his Arizona plates--because the dump site was nearly twenty miles away from the rest area and was an "unofficial" location used by about five local families, IIRC.

I wonder if those living in the area around the dump site were questioned to tease out whether they had friends or relatives who had lived, or were still currently living in Arizona.

I would be more apt to think the graffiti was related if the date had been correct. Dexter Stefonek was most likely killed on November 19, 1985: a Tuesday, over two weeks past the listed date. November 3, 1985 also wasn't a Saturday--it was a Sunday. Easy error to make if whatever event that took place occurred at night, however.

I agree on both points, Meg. First, cases like Dexter's and Fraser's happen all over the place. Yes, they are similar but ultimately, I'd be shocked if the same person was responsible for both. Secondly, I never did look up the date, so I'm glad you did. It clearly has nothing to do with Dexter's murder.

I agree on both points, Meg. First, cases like Dexter's and Fraser's happen all over the place. Yes, they are similar but ultimately, I'd be shocked if the same person was responsible for both. Secondly, I never did look up the date, so I'm glad you did. It clearly has nothing to do with Dexter's murder.

jjmcgr actually pointed out the exact same things concerning the graffiti a few pages back, so I can't take credit for being originally observant in that regard. :) I really miss his posts.

I still think it's a possibility the killer may have stolen the vehicle or the plates. You'd think there would have been a report of such a theft with a police agency in Arizona, perhaps, but I have no idea.

jjmcgr actually pointed out the exact same things concerning the graffiti a few pages back, so I can't take credit for being originally observant in that regard. :) I really miss his posts.

I still think it's a possibility the killer may have stolen the vehicle or the plates. You'd think there would have been a report of such a theft with a police agency in Arizona, perhaps, but I have no idea.

In a post a few posts back, Justin mentioned that the writing on the bathroom wall was homosexual in nature. Now, I promise I'm not trying to be funny here, but weren't rest areas low key spots for gay men to hook up back in the 80's/90's? I wonder if that message was some sort of solicitation for such? Kinda like in that movie Dumb and Dumber (Still not trying to be funny) when Jim Carrey goes to the bathroom at the truck stop and written on the wall is "For manly love, be here Friday, 2am sharp.", which is exactly what time he is there before the other character in the movie knocks on the stall door. My point is, I wonder if Dexter was just using the facilities, but someone thought he was there to hook up and when Dexter resisted, the other party became angry and attacked him? I don't know, maybe I'm reaching with this one.

IIRC, wasn't it mentioned in the UM segment that police they found a graffiti scribbled there that explicitly stated the writer killed Dexter Stefonek?

If it is indeed the graffiti that UM was talking of, this is hardly incriminating at all. It was just a homosexual graffiti, like found in numbers everywhere across truckstops and public restrooms.

I think the likelihood of those murders being related is slim to none. Stefonek's killer was probably intimately familiar with that particular area in Montana--despite his Arizona plates--because the dump site was nearly twenty miles away from the rest area and was an "unofficial" location used by about five local families, IIRC.

I wonder if those living in the area around the dump site were questioned to tease out whether they had friends or relatives who had lived, or were still currently living in Arizona.

This is what I've been wondering for years. I'm convinced that it was done by a local and those who know are keeping their mouths shut.

I put it on the boards YEARS ago, but I dated someone from this area and he was also convinced that Dexter was killed by a local and there was a cover-up...

I put it on the boards YEARS ago, but I dated someone from this area and he was also convinced that Dexter was killed by a local and there was a cover-up...


Well, now I need to find this!

LOL. It doesn't mean much, but it's post 2 on this thread. I went looking for it myself.

Don't ask me what The Boyfriend thinks anymore. He's now The Ex-Boyfriend. :D

LOL. It doesn't mean much, but it's post 2 on this thread. I went looking for it myself.

Don't ask me what The Boyfriend thinks anymore. He's now The Ex-Boyfriend. :D

I read through some of your older posts. Here's what I think: you know the identity of Dexter's killer and you yourself are part of the good ole boys network, shielding this madman from the law!! (Obviously kidding). :D

In a post a few posts back, Justin mentioned that the writing on the bathroom wall was homosexual in nature. Now, I promise I'm not trying to be funny here, but weren't rest areas low key spots for gay men to hook up back in the 80's/90's? I wonder if that message was some sort of solicitation for such? Kinda like in that movie Dumb and Dumber (Still not trying to be funny) when Jim Carrey goes to the bathroom at the truck stop and written on the wall is "For manly love, be here Friday, 2am sharp.", which is exactly what time he is there before the other character in the movie knocks on the stall door. My point is, I wonder if Dexter was just using the facilities, but someone thought he was there to hook up and when Dexter resisted, the other party became angry and attacked him? I don't know, maybe I'm reaching with this one.

I posted a variation of this theory years ago based on the sexual nature of the handle "Hot Jock" and the location (a highway rest stop), the fact the money wasn't stolen, and the apparent aggression and overkill involved which suggested anger. At that time, I wondered if it was possible Dexter propositioned someone who responded angrily, or someone propositioned him, and he responded with a slur that angered the other party.

Or the "Hot Jock" graffiti could be totally unrelated.

I posted a variation of this theory years ago based on the sexual nature of the handle "Hot Jock" and the location (a highway rest stop), the fact the money wasn't stolen, and the apparent aggression and overkill involved which suggested anger. At that time, I wondered if it was possible Dexter propositioned someone who responded angrily, or someone propositioned him, and he responded with a slur that angered the other party.

This is exactly what I am starting to believe happened.

I read through some of your older posts. Here's what I think: you know the identity of Dexter's killer and you yourself are part of the good ole boys network, shielding this madman from the law!! (Obviously kidding). :D

Oh, man. You got me. :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

IIRC, he killed Dexter, and then used Dexter's vehicle to leave the rest area and buy 2 cans of gasoline. If he was going to torch Dexter's car to eliminate evidence, what was the second can for? It had to be because he was out of fuel. It explains why he used Dexter's vehicle, and then came back to the rest area before finally leaving in his own vehicle. Because, IMO, if his car had fuel, and this was some sort of sexual liaison gone wrong, it would make more sense for him to take Dexter's body, in his own vehicle, and then dump it and leave the area. I suppose one could make the argument that the guy didn't want to be seen driving his own vehicle near the dump site with the rare chance that someone would see him, and actually remember it 4 months later. I don't think that's the case for two reasons: the dump site was remote, and he returned to the rest area and was seen by the maintenance man before he torched Dexter's car.

I still contend that the 2 gas containers are the biggest piece of the puzzle in terms of establishing a motive.

IIRC, he killed Dexter, and then used Dexter's vehicle to leave the rest area and buy 2 cans of gasoline. If he was going to torch Dexter's car to eliminate evidence, what was the second can for? It had to be because he was out of fuel. It explains why he used Dexter's vehicle, and then came back to the rest area before finally leaving in his own vehicle. Because, IMO, if his car had fuel, and this was some sort of sexual liaison gone wrong, it would make more sense for him to take Dexter's body, in his own vehicle, and then dump it and leave the area. I suppose one could make the argument that the guy didn't want to be seen driving his own vehicle near the dump site with the rare chance that someone would see him, and actually remember it 4 months later. I don't think that's the case for two reasons: the dump site was remote, and he returned to the rest area and was seen by the maintenance man before he torched Dexter's car.

I still contend that the 2 gas containers are the biggest piece of the puzzle in terms of establishing a motive.

This is what I think, too. I really do think he was out of gasoline. I surmise he could have approached Dexter about money for gas, or a ride to a gas station (and maybe was even aggressive from the outset about these things), and that Dexter rebuffed his request.

In a post a few posts back, Justin mentioned that the writing on the bathroom wall was homosexual in nature. Now, I promise I'm not trying to be funny here, but weren't rest areas low key spots for gay men to hook up back in the 80's/90's? I wonder if that message was some sort of solicitation for such? Kinda like in that movie Dumb and Dumber (Still not trying to be funny) when Jim Carrey goes to the bathroom at the truck stop and written on the wall is "For manly love, be here Friday, 2am sharp.", which is exactly what time he is there before the other character in the movie knocks on the stall door. My point is, I wonder if Dexter was just using the facilities, but someone thought he was there to hook up and when Dexter resisted, the other party became angry and attacked him? I don't know, maybe I'm reaching with this one.
I think this is a reach but I do like your post and who knows with this case. There aren't a lot of answers. Not to get too far off topic but I don't buy into bathroom graffiti as being serious in most cases. I think men are just stupid sometimes. I definitely don't see bathroom graffiti as much as I did back in the 90s. We do have some here where I work and they painted the wall and the next day there was some art again. I wonder if women's restrooms have grafitti problems?

I do agree that the most plausible theory is that the killer had pulled into the rest stop after running out of gas and then murdered Dexter when he arrived, possibly in a rage when Dexter turned down a request to help him get gas.

However, the oddest part to me is that the killer held onto Dexter's suitcase for months and then dumped his belongings at the murder site only days before the body was found. This seemed to indicate that he was frustrated about the body not being discovered and wanted to help draw attention to it. On one hand, we have a killer who seemed to murder his victim out of desperation and rage, yet the part with the suitcase makes him sound like some sort of thrill-killer who relished the attention.

I do agree that the most plausible theory is that the killer had pulled into the rest stop after running out of gas and then murdered Dexter when he arrived, possibly in a rage when Dexter turned down a request to help him get gas.

However, the oddest part to me is that the killer held onto Dexter's suitcase for months and then dumped his belongings at the murder site only days before the body was found. This seemed to indicate that he was frustrated about the body not being discovered and wanted to help draw attention to it. On one hand, we have a killer who seemed to murder his victim out of desperation and rage, yet the part with the suitcase makes him sound like some sort of thrill-killer who relished the attention.

I think it was Cars who posited the notion that the belongings could have in fact been in the dump from the time the car was found burning, along with the body--the theory being that a junker or dumper of some sort rifled through the dump site, scattering Dexter's belongings in the process, thereby leaving them in conspicuous places by the time the Shaws showed up. This person may or may not have also happened upon Dexter's body, but if they did, it would seem they didn't report it.

I think it was Cars who posited the notion that the belongings could have in fact been in the dump from the time the car was found burning, along with the body--the theory being that a junker or dumper of some sort rifled through the dump site, scattering Dexter's belongings in the process, thereby leaving them in conspicuous places by the time the Shaws showed up. This person may or may not have also happened upon Dexter's body, but if they did, it would seem they didn't report it.

Didn't the people who eventually found Dexter's body say that they saw a boot at first, but paid it no mind, before realizing it was part of Dexter's body? If so, I could see how someone went to the dump site, and rifled through the belongings without seeing the body. Especially if that person was there at night.

I was pretty surprised today when I saw this episode hearing that Dexter Stefonek was from Rhinelander, WI where I was born and raised. There's a girl I went to school with who had the last name Stefonek and she had many family members with the same last name and lived on the Stefonek farm. I wonder if they are related to Dexter. Probably distantly.

I hope this case is solved someday.

https://twitter.com/azrunner88

Just for fun, I did a google search for "HotJock" and oddly enough, the first thing that popped up was this Twitter page. I am not saying that this person has anything to do with the case, but I found it interesting that the person appears to live in Arizona (AZRunner88), is a member of the Baby Boomer generation which would place him at the youngest in his 20's in 1985 when the Dexter Stefonek murder occurred and also seems to only be following lots of raunchy Gay Porn actors (not that I have anything against that sort of thing in the least, just fits with the theory of it being a potential Gay Hook Up gone wrong type of scenario).

https://twitter.com/AZrunner88

I did a Google search for "HotJock" today, and the very first thing that popped up was this guy's Twitter page.

I am not insinuating he had anything to do with Dexter Stefonek's murder, just a few things I found interesting.

1. This person uses the Twitter handle "HotJock"
2. Their Twitter name is AZrunner88
3. They appear to live in Arizona, specifically the city of Chandler (which ties in with the Arizona license plate reported on the mysterious Blue and White Truck).
4. They follow Boomer Fitness and The Boomer Brief, both geared towards Baby Boomers, which would mean this person would have been at the youngest in their mid 20's, but possibly as old as in their late 30's at the time of the murder (Matching the age range described by the Rest Area caretaker).
5. One of the popular theories on this board is that Highway Rest Stops had a reputation for being Homosexual hot spots in the 80's, thus leading to the theory that perhaps the perpetrator may have been involved somehow in that scene. Of the the 90 twitter pages followed by this person, an overwhelming majority of them are fairly raunchy Homosexual Porn Stars/Sites. (I should preface that by stating that I am in no way bigoted against the LGBT community, quite the opposite in fact. I Only bring it up as another point of comparison to some of the prevailing theories on here and the gentlemen who maintains this Twitter account).

I did a Google search for "HotJock" today, and the very first thing that popped up was this guy's Twitter page.

Really? The first thing that pops up for me is "hot jock gets serviced". And embarrassingly enough, as I typed that into google, my wife comes into the room and sees the search results. Thanks KarlHungus! :lol:

https://twitter.com/azrunner88

Just for fun, I did a google search for "HotJock" and oddly enough, the first thing that popped up was this Twitter page. I am not saying that this person has anything to do with the case, but I found it interesting that the person appears to live in Arizona (AZRunner88), is a member of the Baby Boomer generation which would place him at the youngest in his 20's in 1985 when the Dexter Stefonek murder occurred and also seems to only be following lots of raunchy Gay Porn actors (not that I have anything against that sort of thing in the least, just fits with the theory of it being a potential Gay Hook Up gone wrong type of scenario).

Your username is great! Love that movie.

https://twitter.com/AZrunner88

I did a Google search for "HotJock" today, and the very first thing that popped up was this guy's Twitter page.

I am not insinuating he had anything to do with Dexter Stefonek's murder, just a few things I found interesting.

1. This person uses the Twitter handle "HotJock"
2. Their Twitter name is AZrunner88
3. They appear to live in Arizona, specifically the city of Chandler (which ties in with the Arizona license plate reported on the mysterious Blue and White Truck).
4. They follow Boomer Fitness and The Boomer Brief, both geared towards Baby Boomers, which would mean this person would have been at the youngest in their mid 20's, but possibly as old as in their late 30's at the time of the murder (Matching the age range described by the Rest Area caretaker).
5. One of the popular theories on this board is that Highway Rest Stops had a reputation for being Homosexual hot spots in the 80's, thus leading to the theory that perhaps the perpetrator may have been involved somehow in that scene. Of the the 90 twitter pages followed by this person, an overwhelming majority of them are fairly raunchy Homosexual Porn Stars/Sites. (I should preface that by stating that I am in no way bigoted against the LGBT community, quite the opposite in fact. I Only bring it up as another point of comparison to some of the prevailing theories on here and the gentlemen who maintains this Twitter account).

Have you forwarded your theory and this information to the proper authorities? This man and his family deserve some justice and closure

I considered submitting it through the official UM site, but I wanted to post it here first for some second opinions. I mean, it's flimsy but you just never know.

Your username is great! Love that movie.
"Yeah, I'm here to fixen das cable." Haha

Really? The first thing that pops up for me is "hot jock gets serviced". And embarrassingly enough, as I typed that into google, my wife comes into the room and sees the search results. Thanks KarlHungus! :lol:
Oh man! Sorry 'bout that!

"Yeah, I'm here to fixen das cable." Haha


"How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus."

Also, great theory on this twitter user. When I saw his/her username of Azrunner88, it immediately made me think that 88 is either their birth year or graduation year.

Also, great theory on this twitter user. When I saw his/her username of Azrunner88, it immediately made me think that 88 is either their birth year or graduation year.

Maybe he's a nazi sympathizer

https://twitter.com/AZrunner88

I did a Google search for "HotJock" today, and the very first thing that popped up was this guy's Twitter page.

I am not insinuating he had anything to do with Dexter Stefonek's murder, just a few things I found interesting.

1. This person uses the Twitter handle "HotJock"
2. Their Twitter name is AZrunner88
3. They appear to live in Arizona, specifically the city of Chandler (which ties in with the Arizona license plate reported on the mysterious Blue and White Truck).
4. They follow Boomer Fitness and The Boomer Brief, both geared towards Baby Boomers, which would mean this person would have been at the youngest in their mid 20's, but possibly as old as in their late 30's at the time of the murder (Matching the age range described by the Rest Area caretaker).
5. One of the popular theories on this board is that Highway Rest Stops had a reputation for being Homosexual hot spots in the 80's, thus leading to the theory that perhaps the perpetrator may have been involved somehow in that scene. Of the the 90 twitter pages followed by this person, an overwhelming majority of them are fairly raunchy Homosexual Porn Stars/Sites. (I should preface that by stating that I am in no way bigoted against the LGBT community, quite the opposite in fact. I Only bring it up as another point of comparison to some of the prevailing theories on here and the gentlemen who maintains this Twitter account).

I would certainly forward this to the proper authorities:

Dawson County
Law Enforcement Center
440 Colorado Boulevard
Glendive, MT 59330

Phone: (406) 377-5291

If you don't feel comfortable doing so, let me know. I'm happy to do it. I think you've got some really interesting information here...

I would certainly forward this to the proper authorities:

Dawson County
Law Enforcement Center
440 Colorado Boulevard
Glendive, MT 59330

Phone: (406) 377-5291

If you don't feel comfortable doing so, let me know. I'm happy to do it. I think you've got some really interesting information here...

That twitter page is either a joke, or the dude was born in '88. I seriously doubt this is the guy who killed someone 30+ years ago. There's not even a picture of him. I'm sure they'll just dismiss it as a coincidence, or not serious.

That twitter page is either a joke, or the dude was born in '88. I seriously doubt this is the guy who killed someone 30+ years ago. There's not even a picture of him. I'm sure they'll just dismiss it as a coincidence, or not serious.

I agree that it's likely nothing, but there is no harm in forwarding it to the authorities.

That twitter page is either a joke, or the dude was born in '88. I seriously doubt this is the guy who killed someone 30+ years ago. There's not even a picture of him. I'm sure they'll just dismiss it as a coincidence, or not serious.

I understand your skepticism. However, when you're dealing with a 30 year old cold case? I think every possible lead should be looked at.

I still don't see why police think the "Hot Jock" graffiti has something to do with Dexter's murder. The exact message was:

"HOT JOCK SHOT WAD FROM WISCONSIN 11/85 SATURDAY THE 3rd"

And it was written in pencil in the grout line of the bathroom walls. If this was the killer, and he was trying to taunt police, why wouldn't he write a much larger message with a marker? Writing something in a grout line doesn't seem like you intend for many people to see the message. Plus, Dexter was last seen alive on November 19th, 1985. The police found the message on the wall in March of 1986. The message on the wall says "Saturday the 3rd". In November 1985, Saturday was actually the 2nd, and Sunday was the 3rd. There was no other month from November 1985 to March 1986 where a 3rd fell on the weekend. I think it's possible that this guy had a homosexual rendezvous in the early morning hours of Sunday the 3rd, and attributed it as a Saturday (since it was still nighttime, I do this sometimes and refer to early morning hours as the day prior). I've never thought "shot wad" had any other meaning that something sexual in nature. And I don't mean to sound gross, but I take that phrase to mean ejaculation. I think the phrase was simply written by a guy who had a gay hookup at the rest station with a guy from Wisconsin, and it was a bizarre coincidence that Dexter, also from Wisconsin, would wind up there later in the same month.

I still don't see why police think the "Hot Jock" graffiti has something to do with Dexter's murder. The exact message was:

"HOT JOCK SHOT WAD FROM WISCONSIN 11/85 SATURDAY THE 3rd"

And it was written in pencil in the grout line of the bathroom walls. If this was the killer, and he was trying to taunt police, why wouldn't he write a much larger message with a marker? Writing something in a grout line doesn't seem like you intend for many people to see the message. Plus, Dexter was last seen alive on November 19th, 1985. The police found the message on the wall in March of 1986. The message on the wall says "Saturday the 3rd". In November 1985, Saturday was actually the 2nd, and Sunday was the 3rd. There was no other month from November 1985 to March 1986 where a 3rd fell on the weekend. I think it's possible that this guy had a homosexual rendezvous in the early morning hours of Sunday the 3rd, and attributed it as a Saturday (since it was still nighttime, I do this sometimes and refer to early morning hours as the day prior). I've never thought "shot wad" had any other meaning that something sexual in nature. And I don't mean to sound gross, but I take that phrase to mean ejaculation. I think the phrase was simply written by a guy who had a gay hookup at the rest station with a guy from Wisconsin, and it was a bizarre coincidence that Dexter, also from Wisconsin, would wind up there later in the same month.

Yep 100%. That's why I thought calling the police about this wouldn't do much. "Shot wad" definitely mean't ejaculation. Not to sound crass, as we all have our preferences, but I really didn't think that homosexual message wasn't mean't for Dexter at all, maybe something to do with truckers hooking up. All coincidental.

I still don't see why police think the "Hot Jock" graffiti has something to do with Dexter's murder. The exact message was:

"HOT JOCK SHOT WAD FROM WISCONSIN 11/85 SATURDAY THE 3rd"

And it was written in pencil in the grout line of the bathroom walls. If this was the killer, and he was trying to taunt police, why wouldn't he write a much larger message with a marker? Writing something in a grout line doesn't seem like you intend for many people to see the message. Plus, Dexter was last seen alive on November 19th, 1985. The police found the message on the wall in March of 1986. The message on the wall says "Saturday the 3rd". In November 1985, Saturday was actually the 2nd, and Sunday was the 3rd. There was no other month from November 1985 to March 1986 where a 3rd fell on the weekend. I think it's possible that this guy had a homosexual rendezvous in the early morning hours of Sunday the 3rd, and attributed it as a Saturday (since it was still nighttime, I do this sometimes and refer to early morning hours as the day prior). I've never thought "shot wad" had any other meaning that something sexual in nature. And I don't mean to sound gross, but I take that phrase to mean ejaculation. I think the phrase was simply written by a guy who had a gay hookup at the rest station with a guy from Wisconsin, and it was a bizarre coincidence that Dexter, also from Wisconsin, would wind up there later in the same month.

On the surface, I agree with you. The skeptical part of me wonders if there was more found in that stall or in the bathroom that wasnt released to the public that made police attribute that writing to Dexter's murder.

On the surface, I agree with you. The skeptical part of me wonders if there was more found in that stall or in the bathroom that wasnt released to the public that made police attribute that writing to Dexter's murder.

That's kinda what I think, too.

Like I said, any tip is better than no tip. I just find some of the info in the Twitter page very interesting. It probably IS nothing. But you never know until it's been exhausted as a possibility.

On the surface, I agree with you. The skeptical part of me wonders if there was more found in that stall or in the bathroom that wasnt released to the public that made police attribute that writing to Dexter's murder.

It's possible. But why refer to a murder victim as a "wad"? And why get the date completely wrong? Most bathroom musings written in a public restroom are for hookups, not murder.

And I don't think there was much more to the message.

"I think it was there, we had just overlooked it," Silha said. "Of course, who would have thought to look in the grout line of the last bathroom stall when the car was discovered burning?"

I'm not sure how much more of a message could've been written in the grout line.

That twitter page is either a joke, or the dude was born in '88. I seriously doubt this is the guy who killed someone 30+ years ago. There's not even a picture of him. I'm sure they'll just dismiss it as a coincidence, or not serious.
Yeah, that was my initial thought as well, but how many people born in 1988 would be twitter following multiple Baby Boomer specific Twitter feeds?

That twitter page is either a joke, or the dude was born in '88. I seriously doubt this is the guy who killed someone 30+ years ago. There's not even a picture of him. I'm sure they'll just dismiss it as a coincidence, or not serious.
I am going to submit it through the UM tip site. I doubt it's the guy, but it should be looked at. Thanks for the opinions!
UPDATE: I went ahead and forwarded this information along to both UM and the Dawson County Sheriff's Crime Stopper's Tip line. I am highly doubtful this is actually the guy, but I had to at least bring it to their attention.

Maybe he's a nazi sympathizer
I had to look that one up, as I had never known any connection between Nazis and the number 88. Though, I suppose that's a good subject to be proudly ignorant on. Thanks for shedding some light on that!

"Neo-Nazis use the number 88 as an abbreviation for the Nazi salute Heil Hitler. The letter H is eighth in the alphabet, whereby 88 becomes HH. Often, this number is associated with the number 14, e.g. 14/88, 14-88, or 1488; this number symbolizes the Fourteen Words coined by David Lane, a prominent white nationalist."

I am going to submit it through the UM tip site. I doubt it's the guy, but it should be looked at. Thanks for the opinions!
UPDATE: I went ahead and forwarded this information along to both UM and the Dawson County Sheriff's Crime Stopper's Tip line. I am highly doubtful this is actually the guy, but I had to at least bring it to their attention.

I am glad to hear you submitted it. Let us know if you hear anything back.

I posted a variation of this theory years ago based on the sexual nature of the handle "Hot Jock" and the location (a highway rest stop), the fact the money wasn't stolen, and the apparent aggression and overkill involved which suggested anger. At that time, I wondered if it was possible Dexter propositioned someone who responded angrily, or someone propositioned him, and he responded with a slur that angered the other party.

Or the "Hot Jock" graffiti could be totally unrelated.

This is what I'm thinking. There was certainly rage involved.

I just watched this on Unsolved Mysteries on Amazon. I've spent the past few weeks pouring over these episodes since they've been available for streaming. I became curious about some cases, googled, and found this site. I've been reading these boards now as I watch. I hadn't registered or posted until now because I had nothing to add to any conversations. But in this case I would like to add a comment that puts together things you've all already stated, in a different way. I hope that's ok.

The Hot Jock shooting his wad graffiti is a gay reference, written by someone who hooked up there. I'm thinking whomever Hot Jock was and whomever he met there that day, were not killers, but were likely targets or victims.

Perhaps Dexter Stefonek stumbled upon them. Maybe one of them was there first, not knowing what the man he was meeting up with looked like, he approached Dexter. Or maybe he arrived there looking to hook up with no one in particular in mind. Maybe Dexter tried to talk to him, dissuade him from his meeting, or just exchanged completely innocent pleasantries with him. Who knows. In any case, what I'm wondering is, was there a gay bashing incident.

Maybe Hot Jock or his friend were being set up, or followed, or found by a people that didn't take kindly to what they were up to. I'm wondering if maybe Dexter was mistaken for someone who was with them. If he had been seen speaking with one of them, or had just been in the wrong place at the wrong time, perhaps the murderer went after him thinking he was involved. Or, maybe Dexter tried to protect the boys getting bashed or was a witness to it, and got involved that way. And yes, I'm sure there's a possibility that Dexter was the person Hot Jock shot his wad with, but my point is he didn't have to be in order to have been a victim of a hate crime. He could have been an innocent bystander of some sort.

I'm glad that you forwarded the information from the twitter thing to the police, not because I think that is the same hot jock, (it's just way too popular of a name) but because it points out that this murder could be connected to a gay bashing incident from the area at that time, that hadn't previously been considered by authorities.

I believe 30 years ago that the police were not wonderfully receptive to victims of gay bashing, so if something had happened it may not have ever been reported. If it was reported, the police may not have paid it much attention. There could be little leads buried in the policework of the time that were never followed up because they were gay related and not taken seriously. I don't mean that as a jab at the police, I mean it as a comment on what it was like at that time, especially someplace so rural. I just have a sad feeling that there are more victims involved in this case that haven't been connected to it.

Default
Re-watching all my UM disks and as usual as each case plays I go online to see if any new information has been found about the case. While searching for Dexter I came upon a post from about a year ago on another message board. In case the link doesn't work the message reads:
"
Quote:
I am from glendive and have lived in montana for most of my life. I was born a pliley from my mother(now decesed) debra wallem(pliley)and my biological father phillip loyd pliley. I believe what my mother has always suspected. That he is the man invovled in this. He worked for haliburton out of arizona( perp had arizona plates). He drove truck for said company. He is from montana area(glasgow, glendive and knows area) and according to my mother, he was in location of glendive in the time frame of this ordeal. Only locals would know bout the dump where dexter was found. It was far from the rest stop and not convienient.no robbery occurred. Cash was still in the dexters wallet. My name is michael phillip peltier(was pliley but adopted peltier for name). My father was convicted of crimes prior to my birth and despire the little time i spent with him as a teen, i can believe he was capable of this. He was much older than i. I am 36 now in 2014. He has been passed since 2007 or 2008. I didnt care enough fo find the date relevant. Might not help but just passing off what i have heard. Im a glendive rssident"


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As my username implies I was married to Phillip Loyd Pliley I was his second wife after Debbie Peltier and stepmother to Michael Peltier aka Pliley before he decided to not be Phil's son anymore. Don't get me wrong I get it, Phil was a wife beating, cheating no good man from Hades. However, I am going to have to poke great big holes in Michael and his dear mother's theory, sorry Micheal.
First, we NEVER lived in any part of Arizona.
Second, we NEVER owned a pick-up anything like that. We did own a short boxed, very bright orange Chevy.
Third and most importantly we lived in Bakersfield, California and were there from Dec. 1983 to Dec. 1990.
Michael is correct that Phil worked for Halliburton from 1983- 1993
I hope this puts this idea to rest.
Now, I get to say my theory. There are many many out of state hunters that come to the area on guided hunts, fishing trips and even photo hunts. It could have been one of them, or it could be a guide that lives in Arizona part time.....or it could be the pick-up was stolen also.
Psychopaths do not always do things that make since to anyone but themselves......
My theroy.

I can't keep track of all the Montanates on this forum

Sorry, Awsi Dooger, lol... I just wanted to let you all know that Phil is not a viable suspect. Not that it really matters, but, the pick-up we had was a Dodge short box.

My hubby, and I were talking about this case a lot lately, as we drive by that rest stop on a regular basis to go to doctor's appointments and to see family, I think of Mr. Stefonik and his poor family each time.
We came up with a new working theory and I wanted to bounce it off of you all.
So, what if the msg on the grout read like this..... Hot Jock, shot W.A.D. Wisconsin, 11/85 November 3rd. What if it was someone other than the killer that wrote it?
CB radios were our cell phones, but we had "handles" for names, like a username on here. Hound dog man was my dad, I was Peanutshell, a friend was The Red Ruby.... you get the picture. What if this person only new the killer by his handle, Hot Jock?? I'm not sure what W.A.D. would stand for, but maybe you all could help me with that?
As for this little rural community protecting home? Hmmmm, Nooo!! The folks I know would do good old fashioned justice to protect the families, The Would Hang Him From The Tallest Tree They Could Find!!!
We think maybe he was mistaken for someone that had something other than money, not sure what, but something. He was "tortured" by being pistol whipped, again our opinion, trying to find out where "it" was??
When he couldn't produce whatever that was....well we all know what happened next. So, what do you think?? Oh one last thing......

No one would've protected Phil, believe me, once he got drunk NO-ONE wanted to even know him! But, he never hit men, only women that he'd beaten down with words and then fists first. The guys at Halliburton couldn't even stand him, so if we had been in Montana at the time, I still couldn't agree it was him, he was a coward, he wouldn't of been brave enough to go up against any man.

Protecting him..... not home.....oops, I need to proof read better...

Folks are really overthinking the bathroom "graffiti" in this case. If you don't know what a "wad" is, well, yikes.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wad&amp=true

The "graffiti" in question has absolutely nothing to do with this case IMO.

Folks are really overthinking the bathroom "graffiti" in this case. If you don't know what a "wad" is, well, yikes.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wad&amp=true

The "graffiti" in question has absolutely nothing to do with this case IMO.

I didn't think this would have to be explained...lol

Funny, on the way to work yesterday I ended up behind a Plymouth Horizon...I had never, surprisingly, seen one in person (since childhood at least.)

Folks are really overthinking the bathroom "graffiti" in this case. If you don't know what a "wad" is, well, yikes.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wad&amp=true

The "graffiti" in question has absolutely nothing to do with this case IMO.

Coming from experience are we?

Christ the jokes write themselves........

Hot Jock, are you the one this is written About? I'm not looking for a fight..... I'm asking a legitimate question here. Was that your handle back then? Was this maybe written by or about you??

Look I know what a was is...... but the way the sentence is written it really doesn't fit where it is in the sentence.

Hot Jock's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 09, 2016
Posts: 200
Default
Folks are really overthinking the bathroom "graffiti" in this case. If you don't know what a "wad" is, well, yikes.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...m=wad&amp=true

The "graffiti" in question has absolutely nothing to do with this case IMO.


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