In almost all the episodes that had a white person in it, they were nothing but goofy and/or stupid.

In almost all the episodes that had a white person in it, they were nothing but goofy and/or stupid.
Perhaps, but then,for how many years were blacks portrayed as goofy and stupid in all forms of entertainment; didnt you think it was time for a role-reversal?;) ( ps, Im not black! :lol: )

I understand all that, but at least have one white person with an IQ over 2! :lol:

I understand all that, but at least have one white person with an IQ over 2! :lol:
:lol: They did, producer Norman Lear;)

I was just thinking the same thing Brian...thanx for bringing that up. I hated that. Just because it was done to "them" means they have to do it to the "whites"? Or was that the only way the blacks could get an applause??? you hit the nail on the head with this topic.

I mean, I understand it was a "black" show, but they really made almost every white person dumb.

Well, since the producer was "white", and probably the writers too, it becomes a great irony, doesnt it? :lol:

I agree - I also noticed the same trend with the Cosby Show in the 80s - any white neighbour or visitor was portrayed as a real dork.


I also noticed during last week's marathon, when Thelma was accepted to a better school (referred to as a "white" school) Florida said something about her acting selfish - and Michael says, "See - she's already acting white!"

Could you imagine a show today (or even then) where a white character were to refer to a black person like that? The backlash would be incredible. :rolleyes:

I agree - I also noticed the same trend with the Cosby Show in the 80s - any white neighbour or visitor was portrayed as a real dork.


I also noticed during last week's marathon, when Thelma was accepted to a better school (referred to as a "white" school) Florida said something about her acting selfish - and Michael says, "See - she's already acting white!"

Could you imagine a show today (or even then) where a white character were to refer to a black person like that? The backlash would be incredible. :rolleyes:


I know that racism existed in the 70's (and still does) but they made almost all the white characters racist and if they weren't racist, they were trying to "act black" which made them look like fools or were just plain dumb.

The trend continues today. In many "family" sitcoms, the husband is portrayed as an idiot who screws up everything while the wife (who is younger, thinner and usually hot) knows everything.

CBS seems to be the main culprit of this with shows like Everybody Loves Raymond, King of Queens and Still Standing.

I have to disagree. The Cosby's had very intelligent white friends and peers portrayed on their show.

As far as then, the shows portrayed exactly what poverty level or lower class families felt about the opposite race, i.e., "Archie Bunker"

Unfortunately in respects to the Evans Family, any time a white person had to go to their area for any reason, whoever sent the representatives, they would intentionally send a person who was aloof. That is how it was in real life. The only black families who would come in contact with middle/upper middle class whites, were those who were in the same financial, geographical and educational bracket. In real life, if an intelligent white person did come to the projects, out of fear, they would at times act stupid or say stupid things.

The projects where Tony Dorsett grew up, you couldn't get a white establishment to deliver pizza in that area in the 70's and even today, they still won't. :(

I see what you are saying, but the white characters didn't really come off as real. More like cartoon characters than anything else.

I hate to say it but the peers, friends etc. on Cosby were black in color but had this "white" thing going on. I wanted to see more "black" teens on this show. It made it appear as if only "black" teens were seen in lower/lower middle class. All those kids talked like they never had been around any black people at all. They seemed to have perfect English. Teens will talk like teens regardless of their families income.

I hate to say it but the peers, friends etc. on Cosby were black in color but had this "white" thing going on. I wanted to see more "black" teens on this show. It made it appear as if only "black" teens were seen in lower/lower middle class. All those kids talked like they never had been around any black people at all. They seemed to have perfect English. Teens will talk like teens regardless of their families income.

Keep watching Cosby and you will see some white intelligent friends. And I don't know what you mean by the "white thing going on". I think I know what you mean but I'll reserve my comment for now. Teens will talk like teens regardless of their families income, but it's not just income that reflects your dialect, it is also the family household. I know plenty of lower class families who had perfect English. You can't generalize, you not only had to live it, but observe while living it.

My family was upper middle class but I associated with all groups, primarily the kids from the projects. With many teachers in my family, my language was corrected frequently, but that does not mean that I could not use slang. My parents grew up lower class, but the discipline in their household made a difference in how they spoke in comparison to their friends. :)

I hate to say it but the peers, friends etc. on Cosby were black in color but had this "white" thing going on. I wanted to see more "black" teens on this show. It made it appear as if only "black" teens were seen in lower/lower middle class. All those kids talked like they never had been around any black people at all. They seemed to have perfect English. Teens will talk like teens regardless of their families income.

I really want you to elaborate your "black in color with this white thing going on statement". You sound like a woman whom I spoke with on the telephone and after a lengthy conversation, she began to talk negatively about black people. Why?, because she had no idea that I was black. So because I use good english and dialect, I have a "white thing going on?"

I honestly don't think she meant it to be a racist comment. I truly believe it was meant to explain how the Cosby kids were forced by Bill Cosby to talk a certain way. Bill Cosby was very strict with how the teens on the show presented themselves. I don't think anything was wrong with that, just to some, it didn't seem real.

I honestly don't think she meant it to be a racist comment. I truly believe it was meant to explain how the Cosby kids were forced by Bill Cosby to talk a certain way. Bill Cosby was very strict with how the teens on the show presented themselves. I don't think anything was wrong with that, just to some, it didn't seem real.

I didn't say she was making a racist comment. But it was a negative statement. Just like the woman I spoke with, I didn't say she was being racist but she was negative in her comments. But what is wrong with black families or children speaking proper english, dialect and diction. My point is it is real. It's unfortunate that people expected the Cosby's to be otherwise. His show was a dipiction of his natural household. The only difference was the Cosby's portrayed it on tv. If you didn't see them but only heard their voices, then would one think they must be white? That is why you have the Evans family and the Cosby family, the diversity existed then and now. Same skin color, but different exposure and discipline.

The bottom line in this world, communication skills are very important. If you don't discipline your children in that area, and I use slang every day, but my discipline growing up concerning language/communication, does not make my slang habitual.

You make valid points, but I think the point was that they were teenagers, so maybe their dialect should reflect that.

The two white guys who came to the Evans house to get Cleatus wasn't dumb or Goofy

I haven't seen that episode in awhile.

You make valid points, but I think the point was that they were teenagers, so maybe their dialect should reflect that.

Take Denise's character for instance. Some would look at her style and expect her to speak a certain way. One of my nephews has dreadlocks, he wears rock-a-wear and sean jean, and carries a guitar. How would he be expected to speak? He is a music major and he carries the look, but his dialect, diction, and vocabulary blows my mind. He uses slang but very rarely while at the same time alot of his friends use nothing but slang. My point is slang or broken english, perfect english and dialect is not a black or white thing. It's about your exposure and discipline.

Also the White Guy in the first episode wasn't dumb or Goofy, the one who turned down James for the Job. Also the White guy who offered Florida the Job instead of James and The White Guy who was in the Episode was a Peeping Tom for a living. He was the Boss at the Dept Store. Come One Brian-lol Also the White Guy who was at the front desk at the police station when J.J was arrested. Plus the white Judge in the Mad Dog episode. None of those white guys were dumb or Goofy

Well you made my point better than I intended. The Cosby's children only associated with upper class kids, I wish they had interacted with all, not just the ones they ended up choosing. I grew up in an upper middle class myself but my friends came from all classes, colors, religions, etc. The Cosby show gave the impression that the kids only "hung around" kids of their same demographics and income.

As for the white cop in that episode when JJ got arrested, yes he was appearing "dumb". I am defending Brian here people. That cop was okay until the real culprit of that robbery was arrested. James and Florida gave dirty looks to the cop and with disgust in her voice, Florida stated with sarcasm how it was understandable that the cops had arrested her son for the robbery. If you recall, the real robber was the opposite of JJ. Short and fat. The cop immediately said, "I'm sorry" with this dumb look on his face. No cop in real life would that. Brian, you go man. I know what you mean abt this topic.

Well you made my point better than I intended. The Cosby's children only associated with upper class kids, I wish they had interacted with all, not just the ones they ended up choosing. I grew up in an upper middle class myself but my friends came from all classes, colors, religions, etc. The Cosby show gave the impression that the kids only "hung around" kids of their same demographics and income.

That's your impression. Just because you hang around kids from other income levels who happen to speak differently, doesn't mean that you have to. When I grew up with kids who did not have the same privileges, they were able to learn from me and my family things that they did not in their own households. And that included speaking properly. And it was appreciated. They never assumed that we thought we were better than them or anyone. Even children can be good examples for their peers. Most of Theo's friend were from different demographics and income.

Back to the ORIGINAL TOPIC. Good times made white people seem dumb, stupid, idiotic, racist at times, etc. That is what Brian was referring to. I don't agree with the show having done that. Just as I wouldn't want to see a show make people (non-whites) appear to be stupid, dumb, ignorant, unless the character called for it, not based on their skin color. I believe that the powers that be wanted to reverse the "damage" it had done with ALL IN THE FAMILY. Now it was "whiteys" turn to get theirs.

As for the white cop in that episode when JJ got arrested, yes he was appearing "dumb". I am defending Brian here people. That cop was okay until the real culprit of that robbery was arrested. James and Florida gave dirty looks to the cop and with disgust in her voice, Florida stated with sarcasm how it was understandable that the cops had arrested her son for the robbery. If you recall, the real robber was the opposite of JJ. Short and fat. The cop immediately said, "I'm sorry" with this dumb look on his face. No cop in real life would that. Brian, you go man. I know what you mean abt this topic.

I will agree that Brian asked a valid question. Your answers were not well thought before written.

Get real, in real life, cops say it all the time. Like I said, it's different from just hanging around people of different races and classes. You have to observe it and live it. Have you ever spent the night(s) with a friend who lived in the projects?

Back to the ORIGINAL TOPIC. Good times made white people seem dumb, stupid, idiotic, racist at times, etc. That is what Brian was referring to. I don't agree with the show having done that. Just as I wouldn't want to see a show make people (non-whites) appear to be stupid, dumb, ignorant, unless the character called for it, not based on their skin color. I believe that the powers that be wanted to reverse the "damage" it had done with ALL IN THE FAMILY. Now it was "whiteys" turn to get theirs.


Back to the original topic: The show was realistic. It wasn't a reverse of all in the family. That is your perception. Both shows were a reality check. People could see what was actually going on when they didn't take time to observe it for themselves in their every day lives.

No. The ORIGINAL TOPIC posted by Brian was that Good Times made white people (characters) on the show appear DUMB. That's the topic here. Brian made his point very well and I agree with it. Can't handle it, then move on to another.

No. The ORIGINAL TOPIC posted by Brian was that Good Times made white people (characters) on the show appear DUMB. That's the topic here. Brian made his point very well and I agree with it. Can't handle it, then move on to another.


I'm handling it. You were unable to handle the "REALITY". If you had been more tactful with your analysis, my rebuttle wouldn't disturb you.

If you don't like the "reality" of the show(s) Good Times, Cosby's, etc....don't watch them.

All in the Family didn't intimidate me. Why does Good Times intimidate you?

I never said the reality of Good Times bothered me. I loved the reality of it. I just agree with Brian re the issue of white people on the show and how they always were portrayed. (by the way "re" means regarding" in case you wondered). It was the Cosby show that I brought up and stated I wish there had been more of a mix of kids that were portrayed on the show. I love the Cosby show, but I have some issues with it just like any other show. Good Times I have always loved and always will. I simply responded to Brian's comments, which is a true comment. I read a couple of articles "back in the day" by Norman Lear where he stated the writers purposely did this thing abt (about) making white people appear the way they did on the show. He simply was doing the reversal of what he and others had done on ALL IN THE FAMILY. No biggie. Just me and Brian don't like that. Two wrongs don't make a right. I would say the same thing if a black person or any other person of color were made to look dumb simply based on their color.

I never said the reality of Good Times bothered me. I loved the reality of it. I just agree with Brian re the issue of white people on the show and how they always were portrayed. (by the way "re" means regarding" in case you wondered). It was the Cosby show that I brought up and stated I wish there had been more of a mix of kids that were portrayed on the show. I love the Cosby show, but I have some issues with it just like any other show. Good Times I have always loved and always will. I simply responded to Brian's comments, which is a true comment. I read a couple of articles "back in the day" by Norman Lear where he stated the writers purposely did this thing abt (about) making white people appear the way they did on the show. He simply was doing the reversal of what he and others had done on ALL IN THE FAMILY. No biggie. Just me and Brian don't like that. Two wrongs don't make a right. I would say the same thing if a black person or any other person of color were made to look dumb simply based on their color.

Whether Norman Lear did it purposely or not, and retro has already pointed out the episodes where the "whites" as you say, aren't portrayed as goofy or stupid, it was a true fact when most whites came in contact with blacks in the project environment. If you had spent the night in the projects with some of your friends back in the 70's when the social workers or public assistance came by, you would know that the portrayal is real.

Brian's questions and answers have been more tactful than your own.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing why, that is why there are those of us who know why, can enlighten those who don't.

IreneParalegal,


Watch the episode CLEATUS and you will see those two white FBI guys were no where near Goofy or dumb

Zion's Mom - I see what you are saying. I was born in 1961 and was white middle/lower-middle class and always had friends of all races. My best friend from the age of 8 to 14 was Mulatto and we had other girlfriends of both races. All of them spoke perfect English - we did have some slang phrases, which we all picked up (not the "ebonics" of today obviously). For a while, we had friends in the projects we would visit. I remember the social workers and did have "over-nighters" there. There might have been a little more "slang expressions" spoken there, but again, usually it was common amongst all races. (I'm not sure what its like in the States, but in Canada, there's all races in what we call "Ontario Housing" - they just happened to be lower income families - period.

I just found that on Cosby, with the exception of a couple of Cliff's friends (i.e. Robert Culp episode), they portrayed many white characters as a little goofy (or as Brian said - almost cartoonish). There was the little guy with the funny voice who loaned Cliff his drill. He kinda came of as "whiney". Others were Rudy's chubby friend Peter and his father and the older, "gambler" character from New Orleans. I just would have liked to see more equality since I think there would have been living in the neighbourhood they did and the professions they were in.

IreneParalegal,


Watch the episode CLEATUS and you will see those two white FBI guys were no where near Goofy or dumb


I'm not doubting that there were some straight laced white characters, but the majority of them in my opinion were either racist, dumb, goofy or ignorant.

The guy who interviewed James for that union job wasn't goofy, but by the way James reacted to him when he didn't get the job was that he was a tad bit racist.

Bill Cosby was very strict with how the teens on the show presented themselves.

in their personal lifes, as well.

I heard that Bill Cosy didn't like Lisa Bonet in that one movie. I forgot the name of the movie. I think it was Angel something.....


He felt like she ruined her Cosby reputation.

I think that is a mian reason that she was fired from The Cosy Show.

in their personal lifes, as well.

I heard that Bill Cosy didn't like Lisa Bonet in that one movie. I forgot the name of the movie. I think it was Angel something.....


He felt like she ruined her Cosby reputation.

I think that is a mian reason that she was fired from The Cosy Show.

Yes - that's right - he was - also strict with Malcolm and basically all of them. He treated them as if they were his own kids.

I'm not doubting that there were some straight laced white characters, but the majority of them in my opinion were either racist, dumb, goofy or ignorant.

The guy who interviewed James for that union job wasn't goofy, but by the way James reacted to him when he didn't get the job was that he was a tad bit racist.


He wasn't racist, James just didn't have job interviewing skills.

He wasn't racist, James just didn't have job interviewing skills.

Correct. :clap

All reactions or responses aren't racist they are just ignorant or inadequate.

Blatant racism is bad enough IMO it's not always implied or even subliminal it's just ignorance. I'm referring to James reactions at times. James would react in certain ways because he was at times intimidated or felt inferior. The Evans family were opressed so denial or rejection from the opposite race would make them feel as if they were being discriminated against when in some cases they weren't they just weren't qualified.

He wasn't racist, James just didn't have job interviewing skills.


True, but the reaction of James made it come off like the interviewer was racist. Hence, made it seem like he was to some viewers.

True, but the reaction of James made it come off like the interviewer was racist. Hence, made it seem like he was to some viewers.


I just finished watching the episode "The Checkup". That was another episode with positive portrayal of a white person. I even appreciated the Doctors response to Micheal when Michael said: "I know that hypertension is the #1 killer of black people" The white doctor said: "Your right but it is also the number #1 killer of white people" and he replied to Michael with a smile of sincerity on his face.

I know it's hard but you can't take all of their actions as personal attacks assuming racism. Like I said they were an oppressed family, lacking in a lot of areas so it was natural for them to take that defense at times. Some people do it today as an excuse. That was the primary mindset then somewhat a fallout from the 60's.

True, but the reaction of James made it come off like the interviewer was racist. Hence, made it seem like he was to some viewers.


I'll give you an example: One of my employees had to pay a client a visit at their home. The client had a dog that was very friendly to my employee, the client stated: He likes you, he doesn't usually like black people. She thought she was paying him a compliment. He as well as I chalked it up to ignorance not racism. Depending upon our perception, if we responded as if she was racist, others would have been inclined to believe the same.

James reaction/perception may have made some viewers feel that the interviewer was racist when in actuality he wasn't.

Take Denise's character for instance. Some would look at her style and expect her to speak a certain way. One of my nephews has dreadlocks, he wears rock-a-wear and sean jean, and carries a guitar. How would he be expected to speak? He is a music major and he carries the look, but his dialect, diction, and vocabulary blows my mind. He uses slang but very rarely while at the same time alot of his friends use nothing but slang. My point is slang or broken english, perfect english and dialect is not a black or white thing. It's about your exposure and discipline.


Thank you! I was thinking the exact same thing, A lot of people mostly white people have the assumption that all or most black people speak a certain way and use broken English. And when we do use correct English a lot of people, even some black people will say that we are "Talking white/acting white." Just because you're from a certain area and you're black doesn't mean that you'll speak with a slang or use "Ebonics."

And as for the white people on Good Times, I take it that because they were never in a black neighborhood and especially the projects, that being around that many black people all at once would make you do and say stupid things. And in the 70's after Roots came out, white people weren't that popular with black people. Just think about it, Watch an episode of Amos and Andy and see the way white people portrayed blacks.

Thank you! I was thinking the exact same thing, A lot of people mostly white people have the assumption that all or most black people speak a certain way and use broken English. And when we do use correct English a lot of people, even some black people will say that we are "Talking white/acting white." Just because you're from a certain area and you're black doesn't mean that you'll speak with a slang or use "Ebonics."

And as for the white people on Good Times, I take it that because they were never in a black neighborhood and especially the projects, that being around that many black people all at once would make you do and say stupid things. And in the 70's after Roots came out, white people weren't that popular with black people. Just think about it, Watch an episode of Amos and Andy and see the way white people portrayed blacks.

It cracks me up even today, I happened to be shadowing a fellow manager in my profession. We had to visit alot of black owned establishments. I find it funny, I don't get offended because to me it's his ignorance, but when we go into a black establishment his dialect changes completely. He thinks he has to talk differently. What he doesn't know is that they are thinking in their minds, what a fool. :lol: Just be yourself. He's not racist, he's just ignorant. :crazy:

Ya'll are going at it on this topic! Lets me say this: The white people are Sanford and Son and the Jeffersons were portrayed as goofy too.

Hoppy
Swanny
Rodney
Bently
Tom Willis
Ralph the Doorman

I guess it was time for blacks to get back!! LOL

Ya'll are going at it on this topic! Lets me say this: The white people are Sanford and Son and the Jeffersons were portrayed as goofy too.

Hoppy
Swanny
Rodney
Bently
Tom Willis
Ralph the Doorman

I guess it was time for blacks to get back!! LOL

We sure are :wave:

And the doorman Carlton on Rhoda was also goofy. Ralph and Potsy on Happy Days. Shall I go on? :lol:

Ya'll are going at it on this topic! Lets me say this: The white people are Sanford and Son and the Jeffersons were portrayed as goofy too.

Hoppy
Swanny
Rodney
Bently
Tom Willis
Ralph the Doorman

I guess it was time for blacks to get back!! LOL


Ralph wasn't goofy.

Ralph wasn't goofy.

Yes he was! He was the biggest goofball and dork on the show. What about him thinking that sweet potatoe pie was pumpkin pie?

He was a damn dork!

Yes he was! He was the biggest goofball and dork on the show. What about him thinking that sweet potatoe pie was pumpkin pie?

He was a damn dork!

That's not unusual. There are alot of white people who don't know what sweet potato pie is. Put the two side by side and they will automatically assume it's pumpkin. I've introduced sweet potato pie to a work force of white people. :lol:

Ralph wasn't goofy.

Ralph was goofy as hell.

Last night, I saw the episode where James was given a physical examination by a white doctor and the character came off as very normal to me. He wasn't goofy, dweeby or patronizing. He told James he had high cholesterol and needed to cut out fried foods. The Doctor was very nice and didn't talk down to them in any way.

And while some of the white characters were indeed goofy or whatever, it never bothered me. And I'm white.

How about the infamous Michael Kissing A Dude Show. The cop wasn't the smartest.

Last night, I saw the episode where James was given a physical examination by a white doctor and the character came off as very normal to me. He wasn't goofy, dweeby or patronizing. He told James he had high cholesterol and needed to cut out fried foods. The Doctor was very nice and didn't talk down to them in any way.

And while some of the white characters were indeed goofy or whatever, it never bothered me. And I'm white.
I don't think the message we are conveying is that we are bothered by the fact that whites were shown to be goofy. We are just saying that whites are shown to be goofy or stupid. If reality is the message of the show, then show reality, not all whites are goofy or stupid around blacks or any other minority. Nor are any other race goofy or stupid just because they happen to be around a certain group of people. I am not bothered by the whites. I am not even white for that matter. Just keep it equal. Okay, go ahead and show a dumb person once in a while, but keep it real too.

Okay, go ahead and show a dumb person once in a while, but keep it real too.

They did - JJ was in every episode. :D

They did - JJ was in every episode. :D
Wrong. JJ Was not in EVERY EPISODE. :crazy:

Wrong. JJ Was not in EVERY EPISODE. :crazy:

Which one(s) was he missing from?? I did watch the show, but was not a huge fan, so I don't recall him missing from any episodes.

Which one(s) was he missing from?? I did watch the show, but was not a huge fan, so I don't recall him missing from any episodes.



Right off the Top of my head, J.J was not seen at all in these episodes


A*Matter of Mothers-season 6
Rent Party-season 3

Right off the Top of my head, J.J was not seen at all in these episodes


A*Matter of Mothers-season 6
Rent Party-season 3

That's surprising to me, given the character's popularity at that time. I haven't seen these shows in a long time - I guess I'd better start watching the TV Land reruns!

The two white guys who came to the Evans house to get Cleatus wasn't dumb or Goofy
THEY WERE DUMB IF THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD CATCH A CAB IN THE GHETTO

What about those painters? I know it was during a Carl episode.

yep. "The Wiggler".

The main point is, there was some white people on Good Times that was GOOFY and there were others that wasn't.

Okay, let me see if I have this right...ONE Black sitcom from the 1970s has a couple of instances where a non-regular White character acts "goofy" (never mind the fact that, although the show was created by two African-Americans, the entire writing staff was predominatly "White"), and it's decided that the whole show was "racist".

Do I have that right? Are you telling us that just because of those few instances on "Good Times", that White Americans were discriminated against? That that one goofy White character that came into contact with the Evans family caused you no end of undue humilation, of not being able to get a job at a Black-owned business or to get into a prominent University? Were White motorist routinely pulled over and harrassed by the police because of these instances? Are White shoppers in swanky department stores under constant survielance by store security forces?

I want to know.

It's funny...people who are usually the first to complain about "political correctness" are always the first ones to complain when the group THEY belong to is somehow "slighted" in the entertainment media. Tell me, do you think the actors who portrayed the "goofy Whites" on "Good Times" were the caucasian equivilents of Mantan Mooreland and Willie Best? Do you think these actors felt they were degrading themselves and other Whites with their portrayals on a predominantly Black sitcom the way, say, Nick Stewart felt when he played "Lightnin' " on "The Amos 'n' Andy Show"?

Once again, I want to know.

Out of respect for your feelings, I shall refrain from making the same insensitive remarks I'm often faced with when discussing the merits and debits of "Amos 'n' Andy" online (you know...the old "Lighten Up! It's Only A Sitcom!" rejoinder)...but if you can HONESTLY answer the above questions I've asked, then maybe I'll be convinced of your arguments.

Maybe.

I think it was part of the premise of the show. I think the white people that came into the neighborhood we're goofy, because they felt sort of out of place in that area and of course this is a comedy so the situations will be over the top. Most of the time most guest stars we're kind of goofy overall.

Okay, let me see if I have this right...ONE Black sitcom from the 1970s has a couple of instances where a non-regular White character acts "goofy" (never mind the fact that, although the show was created by two African-Americans, the entire writing staff was predominatly "White"), and it's decided that the whole show was "racist".

Do I have that right? Are you telling us that just because of those few instances on "Good Times", that White Americans were discriminated against? That that one goofy White character that came into contact with the Evans family caused you no end of undue humilation, of not being able to get a job at a Black-owned business or to get into a prominent University? Were White motorist routinely pulled over and harrassed by the police because of these instances? Are White shoppers in swanky department stores under constant survielance by store security forces?

I want to know.

It's funny...people who are usually the first to complain about "political correctness" are always the first ones to complain when the group THEY belong to is somehow "slighted" in the entertainment media. Tell me, do you think the actors who portrayed the "goofy Whites" on "Good Times" were the caucasian equivilents of Mantan Mooreland and Willie Best? Do you think these actors felt they were degrading themselves and other Whites with their portrayals on a predominantly Black sitcom the way, say, Nick Stewart felt when he played "Lightnin' " on "The Amos 'n' Andy Show"?

Once again, I want to know.

Out of respect for your feelings, I shall refrain from making the same insensitive remarks I'm often faced with when discussing the merits and debits of "Amos 'n' Andy" online (you know...the old "Lighten Up! It's Only A Sitcom!" rejoinder)...but if you can HONESTLY answer the above questions I've asked, then maybe I'll be convinced of your arguments.

Maybe.

Take a deep breath. No one stated that the show was racist. An innocent question of "why" was asked in the beginning, and we have moved beyond that. Now we are just making comments about silly people period. Black or White.

So please refrain from any insensitive remarks, no one intended to be insensitive in this thread.

The main point is, there was some white people on Good Times that was GOOFY and there were others that wasn't.
Right Retro, if you look at the initial post by Brian, you will see he posted that in ALMOST every episode (that had whites) they were portrayed as being goofy. He didn't imply every single white person on that show was dumb and goofy. I think this topic got just a tad bit out of control with this thread. It was a simple post making a generalization abt some of the whites on the show.

Take a deep breath. No one stated that the show was racist. An innocent question of "why" was asked in the beginning, and we have moved beyond that. Now we are just making comments about silly people period. Black or White.

So please refrain from any insensitive remarks, no one intended to be insensitive in this thread.

Understand, I AM calm, and I'm really NOT looking for a fight...but this post angers me just the same.

The conciet here is "how dare GOOD TIMES make white folks look foolish?", and, really, I'm hard-pressed to see any evidence that truly supports this, considering that the broadcast mediums have ALWAYS been under the control of White American Males who would never, EVER allow the medium to degrade their own kind, but for the "others", it's fair game.

I ask some pointed questions of my own, and all of a sudden, it's just "talk about goofy guys" and we all should "calm down". And this is why no one is ever willing to go all the way when the subject of race comes up in general conversation. EVERYONE GETS SCARED !!

You know, the last thing I want to do is perpetrate the same injustices on any other group of people that have been likewise been heaped upon me and mine. But if White Americans are feeling discriminated against, rest assured it sure as hell is not coming from me.

Still, these post anger me, and telling me to "take a deep breath" just makes me angrier...it tells me that NO ONE is willing to take this subject seriously, it's "just goofy guys on tv, la-de-da" and so forth. It's obvious that few people here are willing to discuss these points without resorting to name-calling, or flamewars, or what-have-you.

But I asked some legitimate questions as well...and I don't think it's asking too much for a straight, honest reply.

If you wish to discuss this in a different forum let me know and I'll meet you there. But we can't sweep this under the rug anymore.

We just can't.

Take a deep breath. No one stated that the show was racist. An innocent question of "why" was asked in the beginning, and we have moved beyond that. Now we are just making comments about silly people period. Black or White.

So please refrain from any insensitive remarks, no one intended to be insensitive in this thread.
Zion, you put things in perspective. thank you for being the voice of reason. A simple thread by Brian has been turned into something ugly by people who need a different forum to vent their anger. I am not even white, but just because I don't like how a majority of the time the whites seemed to act goofy or dumb on the show doesn't make it a racist issue.

Okay, let me see if I have this right...ONE Black sitcom from the 1970s has a couple of instances where a non-regular White character acts "goofy" (never mind the fact that, although the show was created by two African-Americans, the entire writing staff was predominatly "White"), and it's decided that the whole show was "racist".

Do I have that right? Are you telling us that just because of those few instances on "Good Times", that White Americans were discriminated against? That that one goofy White character that came into contact with the Evans family caused you no end of undue humilation, of not being able to get a job at a Black-owned business or to get into a prominent University? Were White motorist routinely pulled over and harrassed by the police because of these instances? Are White shoppers in swanky department stores under constant survielance by store security forces?

I want to know.

It's funny...people who are usually the first to complain about "political correctness" are always the first ones to complain when the group THEY belong to is somehow "slighted" in the entertainment media. Tell me, do you think the actors who portrayed the "goofy Whites" on "Good Times" were the caucasian equivilents of Mantan Mooreland and Willie Best? Do you think these actors felt they were degrading themselves and other Whites with their portrayals on a predominantly Black sitcom the way, say, Nick Stewart felt when he played "Lightnin' " on "The Amos 'n' Andy Show"?

Once again, I want to know.

Out of respect for your feelings, I shall refrain from making the same insensitive remarks I'm often faced with when discussing the merits and debits of "Amos 'n' Andy" online (you know...the old "Lighten Up! It's Only A Sitcom!" rejoinder)...but if you can HONESTLY answer the above questions I've asked, then maybe I'll be convinced of your arguments.

Maybe.


Who said the show was racist? No kidding the staff was mostly white, everybody who is a Good Times fan knows that. The point of the post, was observing that some were goofy. Nobody here said they were discriminated against. Why would they be? They were actors getting an opportunity to star in a hit show. I'm sure the actors could care less. It's pretty big of you to assume that I am white. You just look at that picture in my avatar and say, "Well gee, he looks white, so he must be white." For the record, I am HISPANIC.

When Zion told you to take a deep breath, it wasn't to sweep anything under the rug, it was to tell yo that you are taking this topic way to seriously. Racism and discrimination towards white people isn't even the discussion here. It is an observation that alot of them were portrayed as goofy or racist.

Well said my dear. Nothing else could be said to make that point.

Just want to let everyone know that W.J. Griffin is a Good Guy and is not angry at all. Just trying to cool things down a bit. I defintely don't want any bickering to start between two of my favorite posters on S.O., Brian Damage and W.J. Griffin.

Okay Retro. You know better than me. No hard feelings. Just want to have fun with the threads. You know, it makes a good conversation piece when we all have the same thought. When Brian made that thread it brought alot of conversation here.

Just want to let everyone know that W.J. Griffin is a Good Guy and is not angry at all. Just trying to cool things down a bit. I defintely don't want any bickering to start between two of my favorite posters on S.O., Brian Damage and W.J. Griffin.


I hear you Solomon. I'm not angry, but I don't want anybody under the assumption that I am a racist.

Understand, I AM calm, and I'm really NOT looking for a fight...but this post angers me just the same.

The conciet here is "how dare GOOD TIMES make white folks look foolish?", and, really, I'm hard-pressed to see any evidence that truly supports this, considering that the broadcast mediums have ALWAYS been under the control of White American Males who would never, EVER allow the medium to degrade their own kind, but for the "others", it's fair game.

I ask some pointed questions of my own, and all of a sudden, it's just "talk about goofy guys" and we all should "calm down". And this is why no one is ever willing to go all the way when the subject of race comes up in general conversation. EVERYONE GETS SCARED !!

You know, the last thing I want to do is perpetrate the same injustices on any other group of people that have been likewise been heaped upon me and mine. But if White Americans are feeling discriminated against, rest assured it sure as hell is not coming from me.

Still, these post anger me, and telling me to "take a deep breath" just makes me angrier...it tells me that NO ONE is willing to take this subject seriously, it's "just goofy guys on tv, la-de-da" and so forth. It's obvious that few people here are willing to discuss these points without resorting to name-calling, or flamewars, or what-have-you.

But I asked some legitimate questions as well...and I don't think it's asking too much for a straight, honest reply.

If you wish to discuss this in a different forum let me know and I'll meet you there. But we can't sweep this under the rug anymore.

We just can't.

I'm black and I grew up in the 60's primarily the only black person in my classes throughout my school years. Matter of fact of about 300 upon graduation there were only 4 blacks that graduated my year, and not because we were the only ones who did not drop out. There were no drop outs, we were just the only blacks.

No one is afraid or scared of anything. Maybe my way of addressing certain questions or comments on this board are very different from your own. But like I said, the initial question was "why". I will agree that some of the initial responses to his question may not have been as tactful or well thought out as they should have been before they were posted but every comment or statement is not prejudice or racist, it is just ignorance. Ignorance comes from not knowing it's not always meant to cause discord. I addressed Brians question on page 1, that unfortunately whites did act goofy, or aloof when in the company of blacks ecspecially poorer blacks in the 70's. Some still do. When people are out of their element, and they are uncomfortable, they do and say stupid things.

Archie Bunker was a prime example of how alot of whites felt and thought in the 70s'.

As far as me saying take a deep breath, I apologize if that offended you, but like I said, even some of the immediate answers to his question which took his question further than he intended, those posters came to a better understanding after the fact. So what do we do hold it against them indefinitely for making a comment out of ignorance?

I deal day to day with much more ignorance, betrayal, and deceit, from fellow black people.

AMEN!

To Brian Damage: I apologize for making an assumption about your ethnicity...evidently, I am guilty of the very thing I am railing against, and it's really not a pretty sight.

I apologize to you as well, Zions Mother...I realize that you were not intending to be condescending, but level-headed.

To everyone else: from this point on, I will just comment on the shows and nothing else, and leave all the sociopolitcal rambling to those who know how to have fun with it.

That's all.

To Brian Damage: I apologize for making an assumption about your ethnicity...evidently, I am guilty of the very thing I am railing against, and it's really not a pretty sight.

I apologize to you as well, Zions Mother...I realize that you were not intending to be condescending, but level-headed.

To everyone else: from this point on, I will just comment on the shows and nothing else, and leave all the sociopolitcal rambling to those who know how to have fun with it.

That's all.
W.J Griffin, you had me scared for a moment LOL but glad to see the real you on this board. Have fun.

No hard feelings, apology accepted :wave:

No hard feelings, apology accepted :wave:



Brian are you the Moderator for Good Times?

To Brian Damage: I apologize for making an assumption about your ethnicity...evidently, I am guilty of the very thing I am railing against, and it's really not a pretty sight.

I apologize to you as well, Zions Mother...I realize that you were not intending to be condescending, but level-headed.

To everyone else: from this point on, I will just comment on the shows and nothing else, and leave all the sociopolitcal rambling to those who know how to have fun with it.

That's all.

Not a problem. It happens to the best of us. :wave:

Brian are you the Moderator for Good Times?


No, I am the moderator of Seinfeld, Cheers, Joey and the Politics board.

Sorry - know I got in late on this, but just want to toss in my two cents as well since I consider Brian, Irene, Solomon and Zion's Mother all great members and my friends. I am white and never read anything racist into this thread or even the show. I know that all of us are anything but racist and we're just discussing the interaction of the characters on the show.
And back in those days, even IF it were a bit of a payback and taking shots at racist whites, then so what - they deserved it imo. I think it opened a lot of eyes on the whole colour wheel.
Even I've been accused in the past of racial comments, when I was just quoting Fred Sanford - may have been my bad, since I really don't see colour - I see us as all equal and people who enjoy these shows.
If anything, as Zion's Mother says, it's discussions like this amongst the races that break down barriers and ignorance and teach us all!

Glad to see it was quickly resolved and everybody's friends. :)

RIIIIIGHT ON TRIPPERFAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!