Folks,

I wanted to share my experience with a trade gone south with a Sitcoms Online member – CP32 (Christina P.). We agreed on a 34 dvd trade (my Drew Carey set for 34 dvds from her) back in April (26th). I shipped on the 28th of April, my part of the deal. Christina said, on the 28th of April:

“I wont be able send till mon or tuesday next week”

Well, nothing arrived the next week. She commented on a ‘shipping’ thread to me on the 5th of May:

“Yours will be properly packed lol ! I got sony blanks for your trade. I live 5 miles from a walmart. Thanks again.. Nice to see someone who actually cares these day”

Again, still no package. Then on the 9th of May, I received:

“I m a little behind.. ran into a problem here... I hope to have them out later this week.. will ship priority mail for you.With Dc numbers too,,, I apologize for the delay “

Well, I figure a couple of more weeks is no biggie. Stuff happens. Then nothing more the entire month of May, and ½ of June – until she posted 6/11 about the ‘delays’ to me and some others. I re-sent her the list of items she owed me and received this email on 6/15:

“I apologize for such a wait... Unexpected problems... I m working on all trades... I hope to have this out by sat or monday... If you ever you decide to trade with me again.. I will be happy to send first.”

Well, nothing received. Then, on July 1st I received:

“I ll be sending priority mail tuesday .. Since monday is a Holiday.”

Well, she lives in Ohio and I live in PA – one state over. Priority Mail would get it here fairly quickly! Nothing. I had emailed her three times since then, asking her for the delivery confirmation numbers. Nothing.

Then on July 14th, I received a long note, which included:

“I ve been trading for years. I ve never ripped anyone off.Dont intend to do it now. I ll email you a dc number..Most likely your package would arrive before the time I can email your confirmation. I have a pre paid Priority mail envelope at home”

Well, as you can guess by now, to date, I’ve received nothing. Now I know she’s traded with others on this board in the past, and I understand things come up in all of our lives. But the constant “Oh, they’ll be out Monday…” and they aren’t - is really pissing me off. And, considering I’ve been hearing 3 months worth of it, can you blame me?

So, the question is - when does a ‘good’ trader turn to a ‘bad’ trader? In my eyes, Christina has crossed that line.

Kevin (Padre)

Since I've found padre to be one of the best traders I've encountered, I believe that his frustrations are legitimate. Another trader has expressed to me similar concerns.

Christina has been trading for a long time and she's thoroughly honest. Somtimes she gets behind, and it can take a while for her to come through with her end of the trade. But CP32 has always come through as far as I know.

Well, I'm sorry, but her behavor during this trade has not been acceptable, and that's why I posted it. If it was going to take her MONTHS to get her end of the trade out, I would have asked her to send first (or, more likely, I would have passed on the trade). But because she seems to have this 'good trader' status, I assumed she'd be honest in her communications and commitments. Guess that was a wrong assumption.

Listen, I've been waiting 7 months now for discs in a trade from someone else and I still don't consider him a bad trader.

That's definitely where we disagree. In my mind, that is a bad trader. You can't possibly call someone who takes 7 months to get their end of the deal delivered a 'good trader', can you? Would you recommend them to others?

This guy is reliable but, like CP32, it can take him a while to come through. Sometimes quite a while. Stay frosty. You *will* receive your discs from Christina, though it may take a while.

Again, that's your assumption. Mine, based on the false communications received to date gives me no reason to trust her anymore.

Christina has been trading for a long time and she's thoroughly honest. Somtimes she gets behind, and it can take a while for her to come through with her end of the trade. But CP32 has always come through as far as I know.

Listen, I've been waiting 7 months now for discs in a trade from someone else and I still don't consider him a bad trader. This guy is reliable but, like CP32, it can take him a while to come through. Sometimes quite a while. Stay frosty. You *will* receive your discs from Christina, though it may take a while.

a person who has been a good trader for most of their existence on the board is still not imune from having bad trades.if i build up a reputation as a good trader who says to the other party "i will have your tapes all finished in 3 weeks " and i then fail to communicate properly and take 3 months i then have had a BAD TRADE that is only fair.this is as long as i don't have a fair excuse (death in the family etc) but even then emails take only seconds to type!!
if christina isn't being honest and saying "i am sorry for the delay but with .... taking up my time i am just not able to get your tapes away any time soon" then she is putting herself in a position of having her first bad trade.
when i dealt with nannyfine she told me that she was a very slow trader so i said "i am still happy to wait 6 months for the tapes!" they took 4 months so i didn't think much of it when i recieved them.
at the moment i am taking on 1 trade at a time and giving people an expected time frame so i don't follow the same path, my most recent trade was only 2 weeks overdue,although the tapes i sent to jen took probably too long.if she felt that was a problem and made a statement of it i certainly should accept the blame

its only fair!!

Jason,

All good points. I think that's the primary reason I'm upset about her actions (or lack thereof), is the dishonest communications. I've dealt with slow traders in the past, but they've been up front and given me estimates of when they'll be done. I just put it in calendar and set a reminder for much later. But what I've been getting from CP32 is "they'll be out Monday..." multiple times - If they're NOT going to be sent, DON'T send that in an email! Am I wrong??

If we were talking about VHS>DVD transfers, or set creations - it could take months. But not what we're talking about it this case - just straight duplications.

Kevin

i dont know this cp32, and am not makeing any comment on them

one thing that makes a trade much easier to complete is that if a person has limitations on--

equipment

time

money for blanks and postage

whatever, its up to them to state that PREVIOUS to the deal being confirmed

if its going to take a certain amount of time, then that may change the deal, but by all means disclose the time frame

i am sure it would save all sorts of hard feelings later on

One of the problems with issues like this is when a trader owes you, and then you see them posting indications that they've been trading with others while they still owe you (i.e. posting wants/haves or posting "thank you's"). This is one of the most frustrating things about dealing with a slow trader. Trading with someone else when you still owe someone falls into the category of lying.

One of the problems with issues like this is when a trader owes you, and then you see them posting indications that they've been trading with others while they still owe you (i.e. posting wants/haves or posting "thank you's"). This is one of the most frustrating things about dealing with a slow trader. Trading with someone else when you still owe someone falls into the category of lying.

absolutely

in this hobby, activity, your word and past performances are all you have to seperate you from scum bag scammers

do what you say, no matter what

we all have problems at times, there are always ways to solve them quickly

i have heard enough excuses for poor performance to last several lifetimes,

lightning hit the computer--a surge protector fixes that one, $ 15 at walmart--lame

the post office was closed--yes but its open 60 other hours a week and many have 24 hour drop self service--lame

i only can go so fast--then why commit to a trade if you have limits from equipment--a high speed duplicator is $ 230 on ebay, runs about 5 discs an hour---lame

cant afford blanks---at $10 a pack of 25 at walmart--perhaps your in the wrong hobby--lame

walmarts too far away--office depot delivers next day for free to everywhere--lame

my burner died--new egg has nec external 16X burners for $ 60 delivered, and they ship very quickly---no excuse for being a couple months late--lame

family member ill--well unless your the doctor, you surely have time to get the trade in a normal amount of time--lame

internet was down--public library has them for free, kinkos for like $ 6 an hour, every truck stop for a fee--last time i looked, my burners were not dependent on the interent , they run without it--lame

seriously your not fooling anyone with lame excuses, its only going to come back to haunt you later, when you try and trade again

Another common response is "But I only check my mail once a week or two", yet you'll see post after post throughout the week from that same person. Funny how most people I know check their mail whenever they connect, when they are actively trading - or know they owe someone discs/tapes.

I think loren had some good points about things people say to stall (I had my burner decide it didn't want to work anymore this weekend and I had a new one in less than two hours because I have trades to finish) but we also have to realize that while I was able to run out an buy a new one right away, not everyone just has cash laying around for that. When you add life to all of her examples, you realize that they aren't as cut and dry as she makes them out to be.

lightning hit the computer--a surge protector fixes that one, $ 15 at walmart--lame
- yes that is great for someone that knows they should do this but what about dumbass people like my friend who didn't and had his big screen tv fried last week. $15 ain't gonna fix the problem

i only can go so fast--then why commit to a trade if you have limits from equipment--a high speed duplicator is $ 230 on ebay, runs about 5 discs an hour---lame
- I'm happy for you that you have that kind of money to be spending on a hobby but not all of us do

family member ill--well unless your the doctor, you surely have time to get the trade in a normal amount of time--lame
- Sorry but if someone I care about is seriously ill, the last thing I am going to be thinking about is tape trading.

family member ill--well unless your the doctor, you surely have time to get the trade in a normal amount of time--lame
- Sorry but if someone I care about is seriously ill, the last thing I am going to be thinking about is tape trading.

you missed the point

scammers have 56 times the national average of family members being sick

its a lie, and excuse

and dont tell me that the reason your two months or more behind in your promise is due to a family member being sick

what about all the time when there was no fictious family memeber being sick

You act like you are living in this nice little plastic bubble where money is unlimited and family members never get seriously ill. Yes, illness can put a person behind by months. I think the key to figuring out if it is a good trader behind or a scammer is whether or not they are telling you they are behind while setting up trades with other people. Yes, that requires a little work on your part but still it's your choice whether to do it or not.

Not trying to defend anyone or get in the middle of anything, but I know that CP32 has had very limited internet and vehicle access over the past couple of months. I don't know why, I just know that on the rare occasions when she's been on Cartoon Preservation Society in recent weeks, she's been signing in from her local library. One day, she was online daily, and the next, she was unavailable for weeks at a time, so whatever it is that has caused the problem, it was unexpected.

I know there have been other occasions when she's fallen behind, and when she's finally been able to catch up, she's made major efforts to make up for it (delivering her end and then some). I've never traded with her, this is just stuff I've noticed from posts over the last year or so.

For what it's worth, and your mileage may vary ...

You know, if you're that far behind in your trades, and overwhelmed with things - how the heck do you have time to sign onto CPS and talk about new trades (which she's done in the middle of all of this).

You know, if you're that far behind in your trades, and overwhelmed with things - how the heck do you have time to sign onto CPS and talk about new trades (which she's done in the middle of all of this).

thats quite simple

because the excuses are just that--excuses

if you can handle a 10 disc move, then stick to it

there very littler sense in a larger or more numerous moves without the ability to hold up your part

i dont know this person, and i am commenting in general

there is zero sense in other trades ubtil the first couple get done,

the relatives are too sick to complete trades, but well enough to try and make more commitments that can not possible be honored

also if a person cant afford to complete trades, then perhaps they should wait until they can afford it to make commitments for more as well

its a hobby, a leisure activity, a luxury, if you cant afford the time or money to do your part, then its time to excuse yourself until you can

there are options, i deal with about 10 people who know they cant copy and burn a large number of discs, but they dont tell stories and go for months , they make a deal and send me their discs, i copy them and retrn theirs and their new trade stuff--there are always options

Loren has given wise advice, though I would probably have added a little more sugar in there somewhere for several reasons (I'm a female, I don't like to hurt people's feelings, I'm a chicken, etc.). :lol: (I've gotten frustrated with traders, too, but rarely ever post these things.)

Since I've heard so many excuses spouted from bad traders, it's really difficult for me to swallow any of them when it's a chronic problem with a particular individual.

Padre, I'm sure you remember our trade. I believe it went well, I shipped while you were away and awaited your 34 disk set of DC also :) I hope you were satisfied anyhow, but I also had a run in with CP32 ... of a thing she gave "advice" or somethignt o me, that offended me. So I would not deal with her again either... Also, she took a long time for me also, as I didn't really want but a couple things from her, she wanted more from me... So I picked a few more things out to even.. anyhow.. the advice, she told me in an email, and then on feedback post decides to tell me there again, like she hadn't even told me yet... to make me look bad... Really pissed me off, so that was the end for that... GL

onlyemokid, I remember out trade - hope the Drew Carey's were in good shape for you. I'm sure we'll do some more down the road! :)

As far as CP32 goes, I don't intend on ever trading with her again (if you can even call what she and I have to date a trade!). She's now on my short list (people I won't be trading with in the future). It's a short list because most people I've dealt with on this board and CPS are reliable and honest traders. A few green ones, getting their act together - but they're trying and up front about their newbie status.

Ugh, sorry, I didn't realize she was fishing for trades when she hadn't made good on existing arrangements.

Well, I hope you ultimately get what's owed you.

Like Jen, I rarely post bad trade reports. Some of the worst trades I've had in recent months have been with well-known, apparently highly regarded traders. I just tend to mark that person a "NO!" for future reference, and hope the next person I deal with won't bring back bad memories. :?

how the heck do you have time to sign onto CPS and talk about new trades (which she's done in the middle of all of this).
This has not happened that I could see. She is not even online to defend herself right now. Various issues came up rather unexpected, but she does plan to make good on past promises.

I've been sitting on the sidelines, watching this thread grow and I suppose it is time to give my 2 cents.

First of all - when it comes to family - they come first. I am in the middle of completing one trade and have burned 9 discs for another within the past 4 days of finding out my brother is extremely ill and in an intensive care unit. The ONLY reason I'm even online and have chosen to trade "very small" trades is to keep my mind occupied while I await updates from my sister via instant message (he is in another state). However, once I get the word that it is time to visit him - I WILL drop everything and go. I don't care who or what is left hanging - my brother is more important than a "bad trader" post. However, to assume that a trader should be concerned with sending out a few discs when they are worried about a family member - is ridiculous. Just because I'm not the attending physician doesn't mean I am not spending every waking moment worried sick - and, I know a few people who simply cannot function under stressful circumstances (regardless of what those circumstances may be). I only hope that anybody I've left hanging will be patient and give me the time I need to send what I owe. If they don't, then I can quit this hobby as quickly as I began it.

As far as money "excuses" go, some people simply cannot budget their finances and I suppose, the same thing happens with their trades. The over extend themselves. I don't believe "lack of funds" is an excuse and buying a dvd duplicator for $230 on Ebay isn't an option for a lot of traders I know. Not all traders get into mass duplication. I see this more with profiteers who are burning a LOT of dvds every week. Honestly, why would a trader who doesn't sell kick out more than 100 dvds per/week?? Even that is a very high number - wayyy more hours worth of tv shows than a person could watch if they continued to trade at such large numbers. I used to trade a lot - but, that was when I lived overseas and only had 3 crappy tv channels to watch. A good number of folks I trade with cannot log onto newegg and buy a burner on a whim, either.

I understand the points being made, but - to make general statements such as these isn't fair to those traders that occassionally over extend themselves with trades.

As far as Christina is concerned, I've traded with her 3 times (I think). Those trades were at least a year ago. My last trade with her was similar to the one describe by "Padre." She will eventually (when she can) come through with some dvds. She has never left anyone (that I'm aware of) "empty-handed" at the end of a trade. In my case, it took a few months. I know she has occasional computer problems because she had to use a library computer frequently throughout our trades.

I don't think it is realistic to tell people if you can't afford the hobby - "excuse yourself until you can." Things come up - life happens - people have money problems. This is a hobby and if it upsets you that much to not receive some dvds from someone that owes you - then, perhaps it is time to consider finding a new hobbie for yourself.

One thing I've learned in trading, patience, patience, patience. Life is too short as it is. My 35yr old brother is on a ventilator in critical condition in an ICU. Some how, 10, 50, even 100dvds just don't seem important anymore :(

I forgot to add: "Padre" is an honest person and one of the nicest people on sitcoms;o)

First of all - when it comes to family - they come first.


this is always a tough and touchy subject and i have thought carefully about this so i will make this point.if somebody genuinely does have an illness or a friend/relative does have sickness or worse i would not expect them to continue the deal until it has been sorted out PERIOD!!
but if they still have access to a computer i would expect an email of some sorts to let me know,even something as simple as this.

" ......... in the family will get back to you as soon as i possibly can.

sorry about this :(

if somebody genuinely does have an illness or a friend/relative does have sickness or worse i would not expect them to continue the deal until it has been sorted out PERIOD!!

I think everyone will agree to that completely! If things are that crazy, take care of them and then get back with things later.

But, if you have enough time to post messages on a board or talk about new trades, you've got time to supply your traders with updates. You should finish up ALL your outstanding trades before even thinking of starting new ones (gee, I wonder if that's why people get themselves into this situations? :crazy: )

if somebody genuinely does have an illness or a friend/relative does have sickness or worse i would not expect them to continue the deal until it has been sorted out PERIOD!!(
Your comment is absolutely true, but I don't think that is really the issue. Not many traders will pitch a fit when another has shared that they're having problems (illness in the family, lost job, my cat died, etc.). The problem is when someone uses these excuses on a regular basis simply to relieve the pressure they're under because they have gotten themselves into a bind.

Your comment is absolutely true, but I don't think that is really the issue. Not many traders will pitch a fit when another has shared that they're having problems (illness in the family, lost job, my cat died, etc.). The problem is when someone uses these excuses on a regular basis simply to relieve the pressure they're under because they have gotten themselves into a bind.


BINGO

there are legit family problems--we all have them

thats why i said scammers have 56 times the national average of family illnesses

they are telling a flat out lie


money problems---then dont commit to trade if you cant buy blanks---and certainly dont try and make even more trades when your months behind now

time and machinery--then dont commit to 34 disc trades in this case--or whatever large number--- when your not able to handle that--if you wanna be a 30 disc trader, then perhaps an equipment upgrade will help

many people will make 10 disc trades, stick in your league, this costs about $6 with postage ---well within any budget

unforseen problems--there is no problem so bad that a person cant afford $10 at walmart for a pack of 25 discs to complete a trade--sorry i will not buy that excuse either

we all make choices, people choose to commit to do a certain trade--if you cant handle it, then pass---the fact that you committ to it, and cant do your part--tells me a whole bunch

we all have limits from money, health, time etc

when a person demonstartes that they cant produce because they over stepped their limits on numerous occasions, then is when a problem arises

once again i am speaking in general terms--i dont know this person that the thread started over, i can just say that from my experiences, these things i stated are a plain fact

Your comment is absolutely true, but I don't think that is really the issue. Not many traders will pitch a fit when another has shared that they're having problems (illness in the family, lost job, my cat died, etc.). The problem is when someone uses these excuses on a regular basis simply to relieve the pressure they're under because they have gotten themselves into a bind.

no arguement here :wave:

i was just making my stance clear if this ever becomes an issue with people trading with me