Does anyone know if Kristi and Bobby Baskin were ever found? I just saw the segment again today. It's the one where they lived w/ the grandparents for a while and they made up stuff about their daughter, including molestation. They kidnapped them in 1990. Any updates would be great. I can't find squat in Google. Thanks.

Chelle

I can never find any updated articles on them either. They are still listed on all of the missing persons sites so I'm sure they haven't been reunited with their parents unfortunately. Here is one of Katherine's profiles:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/baskin_katharine.html

I can't believe I had never seen it before, so was happy to see it broadcast today. I work with a gal from Murfreesboro, I probably won't see her for about a month, but I'll be sure to ask if she knows anything.

I'm very curious about this case too.

I don't understand why we haven't had an update on this case. Surely the grown children have contacted their parents by now. Would love to know! :happyface

I have a lot of theorys about this case. One is that the grandparents fed the children horrible details about their parents and about how they were terrible and wicked people.

Another theory is that the children are dead.

ARGH! THE UPDDATE MUSIC FOR THIS EPISODE FREAKED ME OUT! They were living in Cali, but I believe that have probably left the US by now.

The grandparents, or at least one of them, is/are likely dead and the two children are living with assumed names. Unknown to them are that they are missing. They probably were told by the grandparents that the real parents abandoned them.

I hope hear about this soon. It is so hard to believe that any parent would do this to their own child.

I don't understand why we haven't had an update on this case. Surely the grown children have contacted their parents by now. Would love to know! :happyface

After hearing how awful the Maples are, they would NEVER let that happen. They have most likely filled Kristi and Bobby's heads with so many lies about their parents that they will never want to find them any time soon. They have no idea that their grandparents are the villains here.

I've mentioned this case on this forum about 10 billion times - it's effected me so much that I wrote a letter to Mark and Debbie Baskin a couple years ago to let them know that they are in my prayers and I hope they will be reunited with their children soon. (I was able to do that by e-mailing Sargent Anita Flagg of the Murfreesboro police department - she was interviewed in the segment - and she told me she would forward the letter to the Baskins.) The Maples are pure evil to do that to their own daughter. :mad: :angryfire :cuss:

Besides the missing childrens links, the only link I have ever been able to find about this case was an article that was written in 1997. Here it is for anyone interested -

********************************************************************
MURFREESBORO, Tenn. (AP) -- The agonizing wait continues for Mark and Debbie Baskin, whose two oldest children were kidnapped by her parents nine years ago. There have been few solid leads since Christi Baskin, now 17, and Bobby Baskin, now 16, were taken by Marvin and Sandra Maple of Murfreesboro. Their disappearance came near the end of a nasty custody battle. The Maples claimed their daughter and son-in-law were members of a satanic cult that practiced animal sacrifices and bizarre sexual rituals. Investigators found no evidence the children were abused. The grandparents, who had been awarded temporary custody of the youngsters, fled about a week before the Baskins were to have regained custody. "We don't know so many things, not the least of which is where they are right now," said Mrs. Baskin, who lives with her husband in Barbourville, Ky. Even though the Maples told investigators the Baskins abused the children, the youngsters never corroborated the accusations. An attorney in the case said the youngsters told incredible tales that were not believable. "The things they were describing were fantastical. And each time I talked to them it got worse and worse," said Karen Hornsby, an attorney who was appointed to represent the children in the custody battle. Sgt. Anita Flagg of the Murfreesboro Police Department said she often is reminded of the case. "There doesn't come a time when I'll be out in the public, where there's a large group of people, and someone will ask me, 'What about those kids? Have they been found yet?" Flagg told The Tennessean. "That case still sticks with people. It was just an unusual one." Marvin Maple is now 62 and his wife is 60. Occasionally, FBI agents will call the couple to say they are working on a tip. The TV show "Unsolved Mysteries" featured the case in 1990. There is sketchy evidence to suggest the Maples and their grandchildren disappeared with help from an Atlanta-based "underground railroad" that hides children who allegedly have been abused. Eight years ago, Christi and Bobby were believed spotted at an apartment complex in California. But the occupants had moved by the time investigators arrived. "For our FBI agent's benefit, it's extremely difficult to work a case when you don't have any leads, or the leads are nine years old," Mrs. Baskin said. Mark Baskin, a one-time student at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., withdrew from the seminary after the kidnapping and took a job as an insurance salesman. The couple moved to Barbourville with their remaining son, Michael, now 15. "People ask us how can we go on knowing that our children are missing, and we say we don't have a choice," Mrs. Baskin said. "Life goes on. We have to continue." :(

Arrrgghh! It actually makes me wish we got Lifetime up here!

After hearing how awful the Maples are, they would NEVER let that happen. They have most likely filled Kristi and Bobby's heads with so many lies about their parents that they will never want to find them any time soon. They have no idea that their grandparents are the villains here.

I've mentioned this case on this forum about 10 billion times - it's effected me so much that I wrote a letter to Mark and Debbie Baskin a couple years ago to let them know that they are in my prayers and I hope they will be reunited with their children soon. (I was able to do that by e-mailing Sargent Anita Flagg of the Murfreesboro police department - she was interviewed in the segment - and she told me she would forward the letter to the Baskins.) The Maples are pure evil to do that to their own daughter. :mad: :angryfire :cuss:

Besides the missing childrens links, the only link I have ever been able to find about this case was an article that was written in 1997. Here it is for anyone interested -

********************************************************************
MURFREESBORO, Tenn. (AP) -- The agonizing wait continues for Mark and Debbie Baskin, whose two oldest children were kidnapped by her parents nine years ago. There have been few solid leads since Christi Baskin, now 17, and Bobby Baskin, now 16, were taken by Marvin and Sandra Maple of Murfreesboro. Their disappearance came near the end of a nasty custody battle. The Maples claimed their daughter and son-in-law were members of a satanic cult that practiced animal sacrifices and bizarre sexual rituals. Investigators found no evidence the children were abused. The grandparents, who had been awarded temporary custody of the youngsters, fled about a week before the Baskins were to have regained custody. "We don't know so many things, not the least of which is where they are right now," said Mrs. Baskin, who lives with her husband in Barbourville, Ky. Even though the Maples told investigators the Baskins abused the children, the youngsters never corroborated the accusations. An attorney in the case said the youngsters told incredible tales that were not believable. "The things they were describing were fantastical. And each time I talked to them it got worse and worse," said Karen Hornsby, an attorney who was appointed to represent the children in the custody battle. Sgt. Anita Flagg of the Murfreesboro Police Department said she often is reminded of the case. "There doesn't come a time when I'll be out in the public, where there's a large group of people, and someone will ask me, 'What about those kids? Have they been found yet?" Flagg told The Tennessean. "That case still sticks with people. It was just an unusual one." Marvin Maple is now 62 and his wife is 60. Occasionally, FBI agents will call the couple to say they are working on a tip. The TV show "Unsolved Mysteries" featured the case in 1990. There is sketchy evidence to suggest the Maples and their grandchildren disappeared with help from an Atlanta-based "underground railroad" that hides children who allegedly have been abused. Eight years ago, Christi and Bobby were believed spotted at an apartment complex in California. But the occupants had moved by the time investigators arrived. "For our FBI agent's benefit, it's extremely difficult to work a case when you don't have any leads, or the leads are nine years old," Mrs. Baskin said. Mark Baskin, a one-time student at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., withdrew from the seminary after the kidnapping and took a job as an insurance salesman. The couple moved to Barbourville with their remaining son, Michael, now 15. "People ask us how can we go on knowing that our children are missing, and we say we don't have a choice," Mrs. Baskin said. "Life goes on. We have to continue." :(
Where did you find this link? I have tried finding ANYTHING online on this story and nothing comes up.

I don't know if anyone is following this thread anymore, but I want to ask all who will to offer up a prayer for the Baskins family today. It is Bobby's 25th birthday. His mother is having a very hard day. The parents have not heard from Kristi or Bobby. It is my hope that perhaps one day they will question the deepest memories of their early years and realize that they were brutally dragged away from loving parents who have missed them every, single day.

Thanks all!

I don't know if anyone is following this thread anymore, but I want to ask all who will to offer up a prayer for the Baskins family today. It is Bobby's 25th birthday. His mother is having a very hard day. The parents have not heard from Kristi or Bobby. It is my hope that perhaps one day they will question the deepest memories of their early years and realize that they were brutally dragged away from loving parents who have missed them every, single day.

Thanks all!

I take it you know the Baskins. If so please tell them our thoughts and prayers are with them. I know everyone from the board is totally outraged by this case and truly hopes they can be reunited with their parents one day.

Do you know any additional info about the case you can tell us? Meaning have the Maples contacted the police in recent years? Any sightings of them or Bobby or Kristi in recent years? I remember the segment said the Maples had mailed the police letters soon after they abducted the children. Does the family think the children could be in another country? It would just seem if they lived in the US they or someone that knows them would have came across their missing profile or even caught the UM segment and told them. Any more follow up info you might be able to give us about this case would be appreciated.

Well this is amazing to me these underground railroads and I would not be surprised. I think more often they protect kidnappers than they do protect kids that are actually abused. There was another case that was profiled on UM, I think the woman that kidnapped her daughter her name was Barnett I think. I probably got that wrong but they were profiled on UM. The woman had bi polar and had frequent mood swings. She seemed like the type she could be as sweet as sugar one minute and then come at you with a shot gun the next. There was a scene in the segment where she was hitting her head so hard against the wall that it was making the light switch jump just enough to make the lights flicker on and off. Anyway the point is there were rumors that an underground railroad knew where they are and wont tell because they are protecting them because this woman claims her ex-husband and the man who had custody of the daughter was sexually abusing her.

Getting back to the Maples and Baskins. Give the parents my best wishes please. Truly heartbreaking and I hope someday they get the answers to what happened. I do believe the kids are still alive somewhere. The grandparents would be in their 70's now. I do think that it is certainly possible that they have left the country. Getting profiled on TV scared them so they probably either left the country or if they stayed in this country they fled to a completely different location and probably filled the kids heads with lies as others have said on here. They probably brainwashed the kids into actually believing these horrible, un true things about their parents.

I take it you know the Maples. If so please tell them our thoughts and prayers are with them. I know everyone from the board is totally outraged by this case and truly hopes they can be reunited with their parents one day.

I think you meant to say our prayers are with the Baskins, not the Maples. Because the Maple's are the idiot grandparents that kidnapped the kids.

I think you meant to say our prayers are with the Baskins, not the Maples. Because the Maple's are the idiot grandparents that kidnapped the kids.

Thanks, I fixed it.

There isn't a day that goes by where I don't pray for the Baskins. This was such a sad and WEIRD case.

seekermom, if you do in fact know the Baskins, please send them all of our love. I wrote them a latter a couple years ago telling them that they will always be in my prayers and I hope that one day they can be reunited with their children. But now I realize that might not have been such a good idea. I just hope I didn't make them feel worse by reminding them of their heartache.

I take it you know the Baskins. If so please tell them our thoughts and prayers are with them. I know everyone from the board is totally outraged by this case and truly hopes they can be reunited with their parents one day.

Do you know any additional info about the case you can tell us? Meaning have the Maples contacted the police in recent years? Any sightings of them or Bobby or Kristi in recent years? I remember the segment said the Maples had mailed the police letters soon after they abducted the children. Does the family think the children could be in another country? It would just seem if they lived in the US they or someone that knows them would have came across their missing profile or even caught the UM segment and told them. Any more follow up info you might be able to give us about this case would be appreciated.

CD, on one hand I too would be interested in some of the stuff you mentioned but I'm sure you know as well as I that in cases involving missing children (although both of the baskin children are no longer minors) information is very very scarce in order to protect the well being of the abducted children.

For example I defy anyone on this board to come up with an accurate description of the clothing Nyleen Kay Marshall was wearing when she vanished. That information is NOWHERE to be found and also in this case I'm sure while we would all like to hear further updates and details on this case perhaps its not in the best interest of Kristi and Bobby to do so. That being said I do remember reading that it is believed that after the UM segment originally are the children were believed to have been smuggled out of the United States through an underground railroad based in Atlanta. Their whereabouts since are unknown and in my opinion any intimate details regarding possible locations for the children should remain in the hands of the parents and the authorities investigating this case.

I take it you know the Baskins. If so please tell them our thoughts and prayers are with them. I know everyone from the board is totally outraged by this case and truly hopes they can be reunited with their parents one day.

Do you know any additional info about the case you can tell us? Meaning have the Maples contacted the police in recent years? Any sightings of them or Bobby or Kristi in recent years? I remember the segment said the Maples had mailed the police letters soon after they abducted the children. Does the family think the children could be in another country? It would just seem if they lived in the US they or someone that knows them would have came across their missing profile or even caught the UM segment and told them. Any more follow up info you might be able to give us about this case would be appreciated.

I am acquainted with them and will pass on your thoughts. I do not know of any updates. I wish I could give more insight. I just know that the Baskins are good people and would never harm anyone, let alone their own children.

Another thing the mom says is the pain never goes away. Christmas, birthdays, Mother's Day, Father's Day, anniversary of abduction, etc. are all very dark days for the family.

Thanks for all the thoughts and prayers.

Does anyone know if Kristi and Bobby Baskin were ever found? I just saw the segment again today. It's the one where they lived w/ the grandparents for a while and they made up stuff about their daughter, including molestation. They kidnapped them in 1990. Any updates would be great. I can't find squat in Google. Thanks.

Chelle

The Baskin children have not been found. And in light of the recent findings of the two MO boys, Ben Ownby and Shawn Hornbeck, Debbie is having a hard time. She rejoices for these boys and their families but her heart breaks to find her dd and ds. Please keep this family in your prayers.

Wow! Another person that knows the Baskins. calyhohu and seekermom, please send Mark and Debbie our prayers.

I have been praying for them for many years and I hope to GOD they will still get their chance to be reunited with Kristi and Bobby. At least they have still had their 3rd child, Michael. I'm sure it would have been even worse had the Maples took all 3 children into hiding.

I should also ask, if anyone has the Maples segment on tape (and if it's in hopefully good condition) could you please e-mail me at dynoguy88@yahoo.com.)

I've uploaded a ton of UM videos to YouTube and I would like to add that one as well.

I should also ask, if anyone has the Maples segment on tape (and if it's in hopefully good condition) could you please e-mail me at dynoguy88@yahoo.com.)

I've uploaded a ton of UM videos to YouTube and I would like to add that one as well.


I have not seen the UM episode. I met Debbie about 5-6 years ago after the fact and have never seen the episode. They are wonderful people. They have also adopted another ds since the taping of the show and they do feel blessed to have those two boys, but Debbie's heart is heavy for her other two dc. She fears what thoughts her parents' have put in their head and is concerned for their spiritual well being as well.

The question was asked somewhere if they could be out of the country and the answer is yes. Debbie's father had connection to people in the Middle East as well as South America. Recently Debbie was asked by investigators to find old pictures of her parents and Bobbie and Christi so they could make new age progressed pictures. Hopefully they will come out soon but until then if anyone feels led to send an email to all in their address book containing the link to their pictures, I'm sure it could not hurt. I do this myself periodically because you never know who might fwd it on down the line to the person who knows their whereabouts.

Debbie will be glad to know there are still people who haven't forgotten and are praying for them.

Debbie will be glad to know there are still people who haven't forgotten and are praying for them.

Thanks for passing the word on. Their case has always gotten to me. That's why I wrote them a letter a couple years ago to tell them that they will ALWAYS be in my prayers....ALWAYS. (Hopefully they got the letter. I sent it to the Murfreesboro police officer that handled their case Anita Flagg, and she told me she would forward it to them.)

Admittedly this will not be the update that we've all been waiting for in regards to this tragic case BUT in a conversation with Crystaldawn today, I learned there is a small bit of information that Lifetime left out of the "scary update" that is attached to the end of this case.

Everyone is familar with the update noting that the Baskin children and the Maples were living in Santa Clara, California in the summer of 1989 and pictures were shown of the two children in swimsuits from around that time.

But "Unsolved Mysteries" apparently updated the case AGAIN in 1993. (I believe the Baskins case originally aired in 1990)

Apparently there was a sighting of the Maples and the grandkids in Massachusetts in 1993 at an antique shop. They show a picture of this antique shop and note the FBI feels this sighting is credible.

So perhaps Marvin and Sandra didn't smuggle their kids out of the country after the FBI picked up their "scent" in Santa Clara? - If the sighting at the antique shop was credible it means Kristy and Bobby were still alive in 1993 making me think that the grandparents threats of "killing the kids" was just blowing smoke and possibly they might still be out there somewhere...

*shrug* - Just thought I'd share.

Yes. Coincidently, I had the same coversation with crystaldawn. And I should be receiving a copy of this segment in the mail from her any day now.

I don't ever remember an update involving a sighting from Massachusetts - but Lifetime always had a habit of cutting out bits and pieces of certain segments to make room for more commercials. (Annoying!)

For what it's worth, I never believed the Maples threats of killing the children before seeing them returned to their parents. They only told the Baskins that to scare them into calling off the search.

I can't wait to watch that update.

Well I remember them doing an update on this case with UM showing a video tape of the kids playing in a neighbors swimming pool in California. But I've never heard of any updates with them being seen in Massachusetts. Is this Massachusetts update ever aired on tv? I thought I had seen every episode... I guess not. But I'd love to learn more about this update from 1993.

Yeah, I didn't know about the second update, either. It just doesn't make sense to me that grandparents could kill their grandkids. I can understand the threats, but it's hard to believe that they could follow through on that plan.

I don't know, though. Humans constantly find ways to shock the hell out of me.

Well I remember them doing an update on this case with UM showing a video tape of the kids playing in a neighbors swimming pool in California. But I've never heard of any updates with them being seen in Massachusetts. Is this Massachusetts update ever aired on tv? I thought I had seen every episode... I guess not. But I'd love to learn more about this update from 1993.

It was strange because it wasn't technically classified as an update but was clearly put at the end of the segment like the events happened after they completed filming. They showed the still photos of the kids near the pool like they do in the Lifetime segment and show a picture of the grandparents. I do notice they show an age progressed photo of the children that is a little different from the one Lifetime showed. Then they showed a still photo of the front of an antiques store and RS said that the grandparents were seen in there and they were possibly with the grandchildren and that the FBI thinks it is credible and consider it a confirmed sighting. Yes it did air at least once as its from a NBC airing I have that aired on 7/20/94. Does anyone remember the year the sightings in Santa Clara were? I wonder if they were before the sighting in Massachusetts.

The Santa Clara sightings are way before the Massachusetts sightings. The Maples and the Baskin children were in Santa Clara from almost around the time they vanished (3/89) until August of that year. I wonder why they bolted out of there in the first place, it certainly wasn't due to UM because their segment wasn't aired until 1990 - something must have spooked them OR someone tipped them off that their location had been outed. I wonder if the same kind of stuff is continuing to this day and thats why Mark and Debbie can't locate their kids.

A question for our Bitter Legal Expert ;) - If the Maples are ever captured what in your opinion will happen to them...do you think they might try to plead insanity?

I distinctly remember that Massachusetts update from the original airing. I had a roommate at the time who was new to UM, and he was laughing that an older couple could evade authorities for several years.

I guess it's never come up before because it really wasn't much, just a picture of the store and a brief bit of info, as crystaldawn indicated.

I haven't looked at this case in quite a while since the info is so scarce, but my memory is the Maples moved to Santa Clara very quickly after leaving Tennessee. There was a known date they moved into the Santa Clara apartment, within maybe a week or ten days of leaving Murfeesboro, and they stayed five or six months.

You wonder how it's possible since the Maples would have needed some form of income. If they are 70ish now that would make them about 53 at the time. I assume authorities checked the social security numbers and known assets for any type of activity over the years.

^ When did you first see this segment Awsi? - It couldn't have been the first broadcast of the segment which took place in 1990 due to the time of the update (1993) - That update had to have been added at a later date.

^ When did you first see this segment Awsi? - It couldn't have been the first broadcast of the segment which took place in 1990 due to the time of the update (1993) - That update had to have been added at a later date.

Well, my roommate Frank and I shared a place from late January 1993 thru August 1995. It had to be within that range since I remember his reaction to the segment and the update.

Well, my roommate Frank and I shared a place from late January 1993 thru August 1995. It had to be within that range since I remember his reaction to the segment and the update.

The airing I have with that picture is from '94 so that would be within the range you mentioned.

Sadly, one of the reasons I remember Frank's reaction is our agreement that the case wouldn't remain unsolved for long. Didn't seem possible that a couple with two children could remain on the run, especially if they were still in the United States and being featured on a major primetime program.

Does anyone know what part of Massachusetts they were seen in? Just curious because I live here. Wondering if I'm near where they were spotted.

The Santa Clara sightings are way before the Massachusetts sightings. The Maples and the Baskin children were in Santa Clara from almost around the time they vanished (3/89) until August of that year. I wonder why they bolted out of there in the first place, it certainly wasn't due to UM because their segment wasn't aired until 1990 - something must have spooked them OR someone tipped them off that their location had been outed.

I don't know how anyone could have tipped them off since they had to pretty much leave EVERYONE to live their lives on the run. It's amazing how lucky the Maples were with their timing. They moved out of Santa Clara shortly before the UM segment first aired. How lucky can a couple of ROTTEN grandparents be? If they had stayed in Santa Clara just a little while longer, they probably would have been caught. Because authorities were there within no time after several viewers called into the telecenter right after the broadcast.

The question that still bothers me like crazy to this day is the question of motive:

I have mentioned several times on the forums that I'm trained as a psychologist so I would love to know why The Maples did what they did. I know that we all subjectively think they are "rotten grandparents" or "rotten people" but the fact is Marvin and Sandra Maples are not career criminals.

From what we know they were responsible, law abiding citizens for most of their lives until this ugly dispute with their daughter over their grandchildren. So I'm wondering what the hell provoked this type of bizarre behavior (from keeping the children away from their parents to making false allegations of child abuse and finally kidnapping the two children)

Was it just a desire to have the "final say" in a court battle with Mark & Debbie? - Did Marvin and Sandra actually believe that the children were being sexually abused?

Or was this whole tragic ordeal part of a bigger scenerio that we know nothing about possibly involving the posessive nature of the grandparents in regards to their own children and then their grandchildren? (There is a part of the segment where Debbie says to Sandra "I miss my kids, they are my whole life" and Sandra replies "Well I miss you I thought you'd be the one who'd never leave me" which I always thought was a bit strange)

I dunno? - Thoughts?

Does anyone know what part of Massachusetts they were seen in? Just curious because I live here. Wondering if I'm near where they were spotted.

I just checked on the internet and couldn't find that info. I couldn't have identified Massachusetts as the site of the second sighting until DarkDante mentioned it. I just remember the second update and can picture the brief shot of the building.

Damn, not much on this case on the internet at all. I did find one site that focuses on catching people helped by the so-called underground railroad. They had pictures of the Maples and both children. Seemed like a high percentage of the people they pictured had been found, but not in this case. I'm still not clear what evidence links this case to help from an underground railroad.

One minor oddity: one site had the boy's birth date listed as September 16, 1981. On another it was November 16, 1981. I assume the later is correct since a family friend posted here on November 16, indicating it was the 25th birthday.

The question that still bothers me like crazy to this day is the question of motive:

I have mentioned several times on the forums that I'm trained as a psychologist so I would love to know why The Maples did what they did. I know that we all subjectively think they are "rotten grandparents" or "rotten people" but the fact is Marvin and Sandra Maples are not career criminals.

From what we know they were responsible, law abiding citizens for most of their lives until this ugly dispute with their daughter over their grandchildren. So I'm wondering what the hell provoked this type of bizarre behavior (from keeping the children away from their parents to making false allegations of child abuse and finally kidnapping the two children)

Was it just a desire to have the "final say" in a court battle with Mark & Debbie? - Did Marvin and Sandra actually believe that the children were being sexually abused?

Or was this whole tragic ordeal part of a bigger scenerio that we know nothing about possibly involving the posessive nature of the grandparents in regards to their own children and then their grandchildren? (There is a part of the segment where Debbie says to Sandra "I miss my kids, they are my whole life" and Sandra replies "Well I miss you I thought you'd be the one who'd never leave me" which I always thought was a bit strange)

I dunno? - Thoughts?

OK, pure guesswork. The Maples had children at a young age. They probably wished they had at least one child at a later age, especially when their own kids didn't remain as close as they expected, nor as much access to the grandchildren as they anticipated. With that in mind, they convinced themselves the Baskins were indeed guilty of the abuse, and the kidnapping is excused in their minds as a necessary salvation. If they believe it themselves it's much simpler to convince the kids of it, especially as the children age and begin to ask the inevitable questions.

The wild card in this, seldom mentioned, is the third child and only, I believe, one year younger than Bobby. That's got to be difficult to explain for the Maples to the children, why the two of them were saved from the despicable Baskins but the younger sibling allowed to remain with the parents. I wonder if they lied about his fate also.

The question that still bothers me like crazy to this day is the question of motive.

I have wondered the same thing many, many times. There's a couple of things to take into account here. For instance, the Maples had two other daughters besides Debbie. It's quite possible that those other daughters might have had children of their own - so when the Maples chose to spend the rest of their lives on the run and took Kristi and Bobby into hiding, they chose to shut out the rest of their family members lives as well. In the end, was it really worth it?

Given what little details from the segment we got, some facts STILL seem so confusing. The whole friction within the family started at Christmas when Debbie said that it was time to take the kids home with them to Louisville, Kentucky. Grandma Sandra had a royal fit and said, "but they're a part of our family now...Debbie, you can't do this to me!"

-I remember watching that part of the segment with my mom once and at that part, she said, "Oh lady...get your children out of there NOW!" I agreed with her. It was at this point that Debbie should have told her mother to back off. Don't give me this, "they're a part of our family now stuff..." They were ALWAYS a part of your family, psycho. But you have to let your children run their OWN lives. Surprisingly after that Christmas, the Baskins returned to Louisville alone. Why? I can't figure that out. My only guess is that the Baskins didn't want to have Kristi and Bobby change schools in the middle of the year...but that's just a guess.

The next part of the segment is even MORE confusing. Apparently after that Christmas, the family reached the point that the Baskins were no longer welcome in the Maples home when visiting their children. I'd like to know some extra details here. Why the h*** were they not welcome in the Maples home anymore? Why did these moron grandparents hate her so much for wanting to take HER children home with her? Was it because they felt like she was abandoning them? If that's the case, why all the drama? Did they forget that they have two other daughters as well? Besides, it could have been alot worse. They could have moved accross the country like California.

It's one thing to be posessive, but the Maples took it to a whole new, insane level. After making all the false allegations against the Baskins, the Maples were crazy enough to call them up on the phone and say, "Well, we know you have molested the children." It's at this point where I start to wonder if they actually believed their own lies. But we're talking about a couple here, not just one person. I don't think it's likely that BOTH of them could be that mentally ill that they would do this to their own family so I believe both of them knew full well what they were doing.

One of the reasons this case always broke my heart was that all of this could have been avoided at so many times...

1.) Judge Corlew took the Maples lies at face value WITHOUT talking with the Baskins OR the children. It just floors me that he could take the Baskins custory rights away without any proof.

2.) The Baskins told the police AND the children's lawyer several times that they were afraid the Maples would take the children and run...which is what eventually happened. But their concerns were always ignored.

One final question in this whole mess that always bugged me. How the h*** did the Maples quietly move all of their belongings and get out of town without anyone knowing? By the time child welfare was on to them, they were long gone and the house was empty. Who knows how long of a head start they might have had.

Such a tragic case. One that makes me sad and angry at the same time.

As a mother, I don't really understand why the parents had their children stay somewhere that long, anyway. Grandparents or not, did it mention why their children stayed there that long? Like I've read by other people, as soon as the grandmother protested the mother taking them, that would make me bring them back home even sooner. When my mom moved to California, my seven year old went to stay with her a month to ease the seperation anxiety because they were very close. That one month seemed VERY long. Any insight to the length of the visit?

By the way, I'm not blaming the parents in any way, shape, or form. Just thinking that the extra long time living with the grandparents could've influenced the bizarre behavior.

As a mother, I don't really understand why the parents had their children stay somewhere that long, anyway. Grandparents or not, did it mention why their children stayed there that long?

The living arrangement started at the beginning of the Summer. The Baskins decided to leave Murfreesboro, Tennessee and move to Louisville, Kentucky so Mark could get his Masters Degree. They knew they were going to be tight with money while they looked for jobs so the family worked out a plan to have Kristi and Bobby stay with the Maples just for the Summer to ease the financial burden. However, finding work in Lousville proved to be more difficult than they thought so the children stayed with the Maples through Christmas. THAT was when all the drama started because they had the
"nerve" to want to take the children home with them.

(Just a heads up - On Monday or Tuesday, I'm going to post this case on YouTube - once I get it in the mail.)

dynoguy, thanks for all that info. I was wondering if the Maples had other children. That makes me ask how close the Maples were to their other daughters, and their families, assuming there were other children.

If they were close you would think the authorities would regularly check for any hints of contact or location, like when the police raided the home of Alex Kelly's parents and found clues to his whereabouts.

I see, that makes sense then. I remember this episode, but hadn't seen it in years. I thought there was a reason, but couldn't remember it. I can't imagine the horror of not only having your children kidnapped, but by your own parents.

Thanks for the YouTube episodes, you rock!

I agree very much with what you said Awsi, for the Baskin children to be found I believe its not a matter of Kristi or Bobby seeing themselves either on UM or on the internet and asking questions (this would've happened long before now in my opinion unless The Maples have them brainwashed or buried in a rat hole somewhere cut off from all human contact which would be something else) but The Maples messing up just like families of Alex Kelly and JJH did leading to the fugitives being captured.

Also The Maples did have two other daughters I believe besides Debbie. Thats what baffles me as well, because of this stupid decision The Maples made, they not only cut the baskin children away from their parents but also isolated themselves from their entire family.

Seriously I wonder sometimes if the kidnapping of the children was a knee-jerk decision and one The Maples refuse to rectify to this day because they are afraid of going to prison?

I dunno it just makes no sense to me.

A question for our Bitter Legal Expert ;) - If the Maples are ever captured what in your opinion will happen to them...do you think they might try to plead insanity?

Depends on the state. Insanity is NOT accepted as a defense in all fifty states. Personally, I think insanity would be a very bad choice. Even if you successfully get away with an insanity plea, the Baskins would have to spend the rest of their lives in a mental institution. Who knows? Maybe the Baskins would benefit from that... :)

I see, that makes sense then. I remember this episode, but hadn't seen it in years. I thought there was a reason, but couldn't remember it. I can't imagine the horror of not only having your children kidnapped, but by your own parents.

I hear you. I can't imagine the inner pain the Baskins must have felt during this whole ordeal and they must still feel today.

I'll never forget Debbie's statement at the end of the segment while she's trying to hold back the tears -

"You wake up every morning and you think to yourself, perhaps this will be the day that our FBI agent or somebody will call and say, "We've found the kids." And then, it doesn't happen. And you have a little boy who will go to bed at night and say, 'please don't let grandma and grandpa come and steal me too..... I don't know whether they're alive or if they're dead. It's fear, it's constant fear. Sometimes when people ask me how many children I have I want to just say Michael, so I don't have to even deal with it. But it's always there - the fact that my parents have stolen my children. It wasn't good enough just to kidnap them. They had to destroy any love the children had for me by making them think I was some kind of a monster."

I did find one site that focuses on catching people helped by the so-called underground railroad.

would you happen to have that link, Awsi? It sounds interesting.

This is the link:

http://members.aol.com/underwatch/ug_thechildren.html

If you look at the Leaders section it lists about a dozen people, and then a group of attorneys, journalists, etc. who are supposedly supporters of the underground movement.

It could be that Mrs Maple is the dominant one and Mr Maple just does whatever she says. I'm sure everyone has seen it before in a relationship where one just says... yeah yeah yeah... and does whatever the other one wants.

I'm NOT saying this is the case with the Maples. But maybe Mr Maples was afraid of Mrs Maples and just went along with her on everything. Maybe he was the type of person who couldn't think for himself.

This is just pure speculation though.

Like Mrs Maple could have said f**k them and took off with the kids and made Mr Maples help her. Then after the fact they could have regretted everything but thought it was too late to turn around fearing prisonmet like someone here said.

I haven't seen the eipisode in such a long time and I can't wait to see it on utube.

Does anyone know about Mr Maples side of the family? Is he an only child? Was he close to his family? Where do his parents live?

We all keep talking about Mrs Maples side of the family and I'm curious about his.

Okay and I got to thinking last night....

Now this would be very costly to do but it might bring their children home. My idea was what if the Baskins got ahold of every major newspaper and put out a full page ad of the kids and the Maples. Put pictures there of when they were abducted and then age progressed ones. And have them run all at the same time.

Okay I know that would be a lot of work and probably a lot of money. But not everyone watchs tv.

But practically everyone sees a newpaper when they walk into a store. And even a doctors office or a friends house. If they got it spread out all ver the country they could possibly get some leads.

Or contact MySpace and put a big ad on their home page about the kids. One of their friends could see them there.

With all the technology out there I'm wondering if the kids could be found this way.

Also who hasn't googled their own name?? And if they were to google their 'real' names it could come up with them missing. To me they were old enough to remember their real names of Krisit and Robert even if the Maples brainwash them.

And I wonder why the Baskins don't set up a website for them to help with tips nd stuff. Or do they have one? Anyone know??

It could be that Mrs Maple is the dominant one and Mr Maple just does whatever she says. I'm sure everyone has seen it before in a relationship where one just says... yeah yeah yeah... and does whatever the other one wants.

Actually, that WOULDN'T shock me. I've read cases where one individual seems to maintain some sort of "control" over the other, causing the other to act any way the dominant individual wishes. It's actually the closest thing to an insanity plea that I've ever seen that's not exactly an insanity plea.

I hope that made sense... I've had a LOT of coffee today. (No, Awsi... I'm not tipsy... or am I?)

Well I thought about the dominant theory because of my grandparents...

My grandmother is the strong willed I'm always right attitude person. And what she says goes. My grandfather was the COMPLETE opposite. He was gentle and kind and vey helpful.

He only stayed with y grandmother because they had been married for so long and had the attitude that he didn't want to argue with her so he either ignored her or did what she wanted.

Now... saying that... both are great people. But sometimes one can overpower another.

I do think that putting it in the paper or MySpace would bea great idea for the parents to do.

Does anyone know what part of Massachusetts they were seen in? Just curious because I live here. Wondering if I'm near where they were spotted.

Okay I just rewatched it to get that info for you. The building was light blue and was quite large, at least 2 maybe 3 floors and the front said "Main St. Antiques". It was in Peabody, Massachusetts and the sighting was in 8/93. I couldn't remember if the Lifetime version mentions this or not but it did say that Marvin Maples could be working as a tool & dye engineer.

I couldn't remember if the Lifetime version mentions this or not but it did say that Marvin Maples could be working as a tool & dye engineer.

No, the lifetime update never mentioned that. All it said was the Maples were recently living in Santa Clara, California and that they were posing as the childrens parents. They told neighbors that their names were Ray and Sandra Farmer and that Kristi and Bobby's names were Robin and Robbie. It finished by giving the physical stats of everyone (including an age progressed photo for each child) and then mentioning that the Maples were wanted by the FBI for kidnapping.

I pray and hope that the children, now adults, are still alive. But there is that chance that they aren't. Fear can make people do horrible things they might not normally do. We see and read about it all of the time, people killing family members. If one of the grandparents killed them, the other one would probably keep quiet for fear of being charged with murder also since they helped kidnap them. They also could've killed themselves after killing the children. I think I listen to Lenny Briscoe's cynicism too much, because I always think of things no one, including me, wants to hear.

That is a cool idea, though. The mass front page newspaper ads, huge pictures of them younger then age enhanced. Every city in the country. Wow, wonder how that could be orchestrated. They could do that for Nyleen Kay Marshall, too.

Since the Maples and the Baskins both had children had a relatively early age, that's probably why the Maples got away with convincing people that Robert and Kristen were their children, whereas alot of other grandparents would have a lot of tougher time. That was some unfortunate luck in this case.

Okay I just watched the episode of the Baskin children again because someone posted it on youtube... THANKS!

So now I have some questions...

The court appointed person who was in charge of the visitation between the 2 families says that she went to the house to remind the Maples about the visit. But when she got there she saw a For Sale sign there.

Okay... so there was a 4 sale sign. Who was the realtor? What did the realotr know about the whereabouts of the Maples.

In order to sell your house you have to sign paperwork and all. So someone had to be in contact with the Maples in order for them to sell their house. And they would have most likely gotten some money back. So where did that money go???

Can't someone retrace this and find out what happened? I've never heard of them questioning the Realty place about contact info about the Maples.

Sounds suspicous to me!!!

Okay I just watched the episode of the Baskin children again because someone posted it on youtube... THANKS!

You're welcome. And you do bring up a good point. It's just something that the segment never told us. This is just a theory but maybe the Maples were never able to sell the house. Instead, they must have taken all the money from their bank account and ran. If they had managed to sell the house or got any money from it, I'm sure it would have led the FBI to them. But who knows, I could be wrong.

Exactly how much money the Maples had, we don't know. But they must have had a decent amount since as soon as they fled from Tennessee they went to Santa Clara, California. Isn't it much more expensive to live out in California? Granted, they only stayed there a few months before fleeing again.

Other people though have brought up a good point. In order to get jobs, don't you need to sign your social security number and other personal information over? How were they able to do that for so long once any of them got jobs?

It still bugs the hell out of me that they were able to pack their belongings and quietly leave Murfreesboro without anyone knowing until it was too late. I wish the segment had told us whether or not investigators had talked to the Maples next door neighbors (I'm sure they did) and found out when they had moved. Surely, they would have seen something.

Yeah I wish they had given us much more info on the case. I wish the Baskins would set up a website with updated pics and info for everyone. I'm sure that might bring in more leads.

Well I went to people finders website and I found something interesting. Maybe it's nothing but you never know!!!

I found a Katharine Farmer age 26 in Denver, CO and a Robert Farmer age 25 in Denver, CO.

A coincidence?? Maybe.... but I wonder if it's them!!

I found a Katharine Farmer age 26 in Denver, CO and a Robert Farmer age 25 in Denver, CO.

A coincidence?? Maybe.... but I wonder if it's them!!

Ring them up and ask.

Does the posted segment include the '93 update from Massachusetts?

I looked up Main Street Antiques and the store by that name no longer seems to be there, in Peabody. There are stores of that name in the area, like Essex, but not in Peabody. Sometimes antique stores are owned by the same person or family for decades so I thought contacting them could lead to some info on the original sighting, the specifics of it and whether there was any law enforcement followup after the UM broadcast.

Does the posted segment include the '93 update from Massachusetts?

Yes, it includes the original update and then the later rarely seen update from 1993. I can't provide the link to YouTube from here or else it will get deleted but just look it up under "Abducted grandchildren," and you'll see it.

Thanks dynoguy. I just watched it, for the first time since the original airing.

It's interesting that in the original update UM said that the Maples were possibly living in one of three states -- Washington, Florida or Massachusetts. Then the sighting in '93 is in Massachusetts. I don't know what to make of that. UM must have had some reason to identify Massachusetts, perhaps family members there or something that was said to people in Santa Clara before they left. But it also makes me wonder if the authorities didn't give the sighting added credibility, and maybe too much credibility, simply because it came from one of the targeted areas. Notice that in the original update UM says several callers immediately gave the location in Santa Clara. Yet in the Massachusetts update there is no indication multiple reports were given, nor any specific mention of the children. Stack merely says, "possibly accompanied by..." That would be brazen for the Maples to head to a state identified on a national telecast as where to look for them.

Also, I had to laugh at something on that clip. It is rather sloppily done, essentially a paste job of the Massachusetts update on top of the previous one. On this forum years ago, and probably in this thread, I know I mentioned how ridiculous the given weights were for the Maples. You see this middleaged couple sitting there, the guy with a big belly in his white shirt, and Stack says, "6 foot 1, 175 pounds." Right, if his legs are missing. His wife is hardly petite but she is listed at 5-4, 120.

Now check dynoguy's link on YouTube. UM showed the identical picture of the Maples again, very shortly after the original description. But this time the math is somewhat different, "6-1, 185 pounds," and "5-4, 130 pounds."

Well, UM moved in the proper direction, anyway.

One thing that I always wondered about is if the calls were pouring into the telecenter after the original segment, saying they had been spotted in CA, why wasn't an APB put out? Had they already left the area before the segment aired? Didn't any of their new friends in the area know where they were headed?

One thing that I always wondered about is if the calls were pouring into the telecenter after the original segment, saying they had been spotted in CA, why wasn't an APB put out? Had they already left the area before the segment aired? Didn't any of their new friends in the area know where they were headed?

It was just incredibly lucky timing on the Maples part. They had already left Santa Clara shortly before the Unsolved Mysteries segment aired. Those pictures of Kristi and Bobby playing in the swimming pool must have been taken by their neighbors at the time. And they were the ones that had phoned into the telecenter. If only they had stayed in Santa Clara a little while longer, they most likely would have been caught.

It was just incredibly lucky timing on the Maples part. They had already left Santa Clara shortly before the Unsolved Mysteries segment aired. Those pictures of Kristi and Bobby playing in the swimming pool must have been taken by their neighbors at the time. And they were the ones that had phoned into the telecenter. If only they had stayed in Santa Clara a little while longer, they most likely would have been caught.

Crazy....I wonder if they felt "heat" and left early. In any case, yeah - incredible luck indeed.

I just watched the full segment. That jackass judge who made the initial ruling in favor of the Maples without talking to the Baskins or the children is still in business as a judge, and in fact ran upposed for chancellor last year as an independent.

I'm trying to think of his name...

ROBERT E. (BOB) CORLEW, III
2103 RIVERBEND DR
MURFREESBORO, TN 37129
(615) 896-0100

Also:

State Trial Courts
Rutherford County Justice Building
Murfreesboro, TN 37130
(615) 898-8006

Haha thanks for that Awsi, I think I will write him and give him a piece of my mind!

Yeah, much like Mark Baskin - I very much hold Judge Robert Corlew responsible for the tragic events that went down in this case. The fact that he showed no remorse for his lack of judgment/intelligence in his decisions regarding this case proves to me that he's as every bit responsible/guilty as Mark Baskin says he is, for his role in this tragedy.

It could be mystery lover indeed. I would actually check in to that further. I think these kids might have been brainwashed pretty badly, so you should ask them if their parents are so and so because they probably think their grandparents are their parents. I am sure the Maples are living in a retirement community somewhere. I am surprised I didnt run into them when I was in Florida last month, the Maples could have been on the shuffleboard court and sitting in the humid weather right under my nose.

You can rate Judge Robert Corlew's performance at the following link. Voting ends February 28, 2007.

http://www.ratethecourts.com.

It wouldn't let me direct link to his page, but if you search for Robert Corlew III, you should find it.

Another thing that I found to be odd in the segment is when Mrs. Baskin says that she now has no family now that the kids are gone.

But she does have family... she has 2 sisters.

So is that a hint that her 2 sisters are ontheir parents side??

Another thing that I found to be odd in the segment is when Mrs. Baskin says that she now has no family now that the kids are gone.

But she does have family... she has 2 sisters.

So is that a hint that her 2 sisters are ontheir parents side??

It was probably just a figure of expression since she was breaking down. She not only lost two of her children in all of this but she also lost her parents the day they decided to turn into PURE evil.

I think it would be interesting to know what the sisters' take was on all of this.

I would pray the sisters don't agree with what their parents did. Unless the parents got Mrs. Baskin's sisters to believe in the molestation and satan worshipping crap. It would be so cool that with this episode being aired again and again that someone could find out what happened to the kids and grandparents.

I highly doubt any member of Debbie or Mark's family sympathizes with the Maples. The Maples are criminals plain and simple and I highly doubt they have been in contact with any of their children since the abduction (except the bizarre letters they apparently sent to the police shortly after the abduction)

I would think that if The Maples did attempt to contact anyone in their own family by telephone or even by post, it would leave a paper trail that would make it easier to capture them. So I doubt there has been much communication between The Maples and their family over the years.

I'm sure you're right, especially about not being able to contact anyone. It would be too risky. I've just seen so many women turn out to be just like their mothers, it makes me wonder. It breaks my heart to imagine the Maples doing this to their daughter. It seems like weird science fiction. Also them having been missing for all this time. You don't have to have children to have this case stick with you.

You don't have to have children to have this case stick with you.

I couldn't agree more. And this is coming from someone who has no interest in ever having kids in the future. I can't even begin to comprehend how a person could do something like this to their own daughter.

There are just certain lines you don't cross, especially with your family. I think that's why this case always stuck out with so many people - and why to this day, Sgt. Anita Flagg STILL has people approach her on the street asking if those kids have been found yet.

I just watched this today and it makes me sick that these evil people would do this to their daughter.

Nothing would please me more then to have these people finally be caught.

I can't think of an Unsolved Mysteries segment that has rattled me as much as this one has.

I found a Katharine Farmer age 26 in Denver, CO and a Robert Farmer age 25 in Denver, CO.

A coincidence?? Maybe.... but I wonder if it's them!!


I also wanted to comment on this because maybe it's just the believer in me but that seems like it might be something.

I don't know how you would do it, because imagine getting a call from a stranger asking if you are Kristi Baskin and that you were kidnapped.

Well after someone commented that I should call them... I thought that maybe I should do something.

So I emailed the DoeNetwork with the info that I had found. And that thought that maybe it was them. And if anyone looks into it if they could please email me back to let me know.

That was a week ago and I haven't heard a thing. But I dubt I'll hear back from them. I'm sure they're really busy. Especially if this is a new lead to them.

Haha thanks for that Awsi, I think I will write him and give him a piece of my mind!
Yes, you do that! When I saw this segment I gave the judge a great big demerit for giving the Maples interim custody of the children throughout the entire custody battle. Surely it would have made far greater sense to put them in custody of the court while they investigated the charges? In a parallel case, the Pat Farmer case, which also featured on Unsolved Mysteries, the judge had the brains to do that. It didn't stop that particular grandmother from kidnapping her grandson once those particular molesting charges collapsed but it did show more wisdom on the judge's part.

Judge Corlew's explanation that he made his judgement to, in effect, to be on the safe side, did not wash with me at all. Not when he allowed the third child, Michael, to remain in custody of two accused child molestors. Nor did he seem to find it peculiar that the grandparents were making no move to remove Michael as well.

Anyway, the judge makes the decisions in custody cases, so he must take responsibility he makes the wrong decision. So Mr Baskin is right; he must take responsibility for the whole fiasco of a custody battle.

I'm going to weigh on this as best as I can:

While I DO NOT think that it was in the children's best interests to be placed in the custody of their grandparents, I can understand why the judge chose to do this. Basically, from my understanding of family law, when a child is to be removed from the care of their custodial parents, the judge looks to what is called "the best interest of the child." There are several factors which are involved in this, and they depend on the state that you're in.

My best guess is that the Baskin children were placed with their grandparents because the courts felt staying with their grandparents would be less traumatic than entering into a foster home. This logic is why you see so many children with drug-addicted parents that haven't been removed from the home. I'm not saying I agree with this logic, but I thought that some might be interested in the reasons WHY the judge may have ruled the way he did. I certainly don't believe he thought the Maples posed a flight risk.

Also... I forget to mention this because there is no such thing as "grandparent custody rights" in Montana, but the Baskins sound like they were in a state where grandparents ARE given custody rights... I think the only way a child would go to their grandparents in Montana would be if the parents were absolutely unfit as parents. I just didn't see that in the case of the Baskins.

LooksLikeCRicci, I understand what you're saying but it's besides the point. Judge Corlew made no effort whatsoever to talk to the children OR the Baskins when the Maples made all of these false allegations. He just accepted them at face value. I know he probably never thought this old couple could lie about something like this but I would assume you would need some kind of proof to take the children out of the Baskin's custody. And even though he believed the Maples, he apparently didn't think much of the Baskin's third child, Michael and where to place his custody.

Corlew might have made more of an effort to talk to EVERYONE involved if he knew that some bad blood had developed between the Baskins and the Maples the previous 3 months. I can understand in a normal situation, the court would want to give the grandparents temporary custody but this wasn't a normal situation. Far from it. And Corlew would have known this wasn't a normal situation if he would have done his job.

Yes, but how about placing the children in a neutral atmosphere so their evidence is not contaminated? I suppose they didn't understand much about how easily children could be influenced and be coached/brainwashed into saying things that weren't true. I also think this case occurred at the time when satanic abuse scares were epidemic, which was rotten timing for the Baskins (but perfect timing for the Maples).

And for all the judge knew, it could have been the Maples who were doing the molesting and were just trying to cover up for their crime. Did he ever think of that?

And the fact remains that Judge Corlew did nothing at all about Michael and did not seem to care that a third child was in the hands of two alleged child molesters, which really spikes whatever logic there was in his reasons for letting the Maples have temporary custody.

Say, did anyone ever see the Oprah Winfrey programme, "My Mother Won't Give Me My Baby Back"? I saw this not long after the Baskin segment on Unsolved Mysteries. Seems Oprah had been getting hundreds of letters from mothers in a similar position to the Baskins; grandmothers who look after their grandchildren for a while and then don't give them back.

I was most surprised to see Mrs Baskin on the programme. She was in the audience and accosted another problem grandmother.

As a matter of fact the problem has become so widespread they made a telemovie about it: "A Kidnapping in the Family" with Kate Jackson as the nutty grandmother. This movie was based on no particular case but was a composite of real-life cases. Perhaps the Baskin and Pat Farmer cases were among them.

Even if the Maples are never found, one can only hope retribution will come to them another way. Two factors worth pondering:

Bobby and Kristi are now at an age to be independent, find their own lives and get married. But I wonder how that will square with the grandparents who did this all because they could cling to their grandchildren?

The grandparents are aging now and years of running and hiding must be taking their toll. How much longer can the grandparents keep this up before old age overtakes them completely?

Even if the Maples are never found, one can only hope retribution will come to them another way. Two factors worth pondering:

Bobby and Kristi are now at an age to be independent, find their own lives and get married. But I wonder how that will square with the grandparents who did this all because they could cling to their grandchildren?

The grandparents are aging now and years of running and hiding must be taking their toll. How much longer can the grandparents keep this up before old age overtakes them completely?

Agreed. If the Maples have any control over Bobby and Kristi nowadays, it would have to be mind control (serious brainwashing) as the likelihoood of any physical control is small, due to Bobby and Kristi being young adults and the Maples being at an advanced age.

I don't think the Maples murdered their grandchildren. I think that was just a threat. As much as I don't agree with what the Maples did, I think they did it because they loved the grandchildren and I can't imagine them harming them.

What exactly did the Maples say in these letters they sent just after they took the children? I only know that they threatened to kill them rather than see them restored to their parents. Or is that classified information?

I remember from the segment that Karen Hornsby (who represented the children in the custody battle) did not take the Baskins' warnings that the Maples might abduct the children seriously because she had been "hearing crazy stories on both sides". I wonder what the Baskins were saying about the Maples. Were the things the Baskins saying truly crazy or were they serious warnings that were not heeded?

I remember from the segment that Karen Hornsby (who represented the children in the custody battle) did not take the Baskins' warnings that the Maples might abduct the children seriously because she had been "hearing crazy stories on both sides". I wonder what the Baskins were saying about the Maples. Were the things the Baskins saying truly crazy or were they serious warnings that were not heeded?

I don't think the Baskins had to make up anything crazy about the Maples. Everything they told Ms. Hornsby was probably true about all the things they were getting accused of.

Did anything come from the two Farmer people matching the approximate age of the Baker kids?

First I Just Want To Say That My Heart Truly Goes Out to The Baskins And I Hope For The Safe Return Of There Children.MY Sister And I, CURIOUS AS TO WHAT SOMEONE POSTED ABOUT THERE BEING A NAME UNDER KATHERINE AND ROBERT FARMER IN DENVER, Called 411 And Asked For A Katherine Farmer In Denver Colorado And They Gave Us Her Number And We Blocked Our Number And Called And An Old Guy Answered And Said A Katherine Doesnt Live There.so A Couple Minutes Later We Called Back And It Went To The Ansering Machine And It Said Hi You Have Reached KathErine Farmer And So On. And WE ASKED IF THEY HAD A LISTING FOR A Robert Farmer In Denver Colorado And Also A Harvey And Joan Wilson In Florida, THEY DID BUT NO NUMBER. THEY ALSO HAD A LISTING FOR A RAY AND SANDRA FARMER IN FLORIDA ALONG WITH A KATHERINE AND ROBERT FARMER.AGAIN NO NUMBER AVAILABLE.

I Hope For The Best And Does Anyone Else Have Any Updates????

Say, I wonder if Bobby and Kristi themselves know about being shown on Unsolved Mysteries? Do they even know about this Forum? Could they even be reading it at this very moment?

When it comes to the Baskins I think we've batted around almost every scenerio as to what happened to these kids and why they have not made an attempt to contact their parents now that they are adults. Most people here feel Kristy and Bobby as still alive but may be living in another country and perhaps hidden by some underground group which helps non custodial parents escape the United States with their children (essentially groups like this aide kidnappers)

Debbie Baskin probably has given us the most likely scenerio as to what has happened to the children, her father Marvin had ties in South America and several other foreign lands so its likely that the Maples headed there with the children.

The Santa Clara sightings are way before the Massachusetts sightings. The Maples and the Baskin children were in Santa Clara from almost around the time they vanished (3/89) until August of that year. I wonder why they bolted out of there in the first place, it certainly wasn't due to UM because their segment wasn't aired until 1990 - something must have spooked them OR someone tipped them off that their location had been outed. I wonder if the same kind of stuff is continuing to this day and thats why Mark and Debbie can't locate their kids.

A question for our Bitter Legal Expert ;) - If the Maples are ever captured what in your opinion will happen to them...do you think they might try to plead insanity?

Insanity?!? Hah! They'll bring out the old lies about child molesting, satanic abuse, abandonment, etc etc.

What really worries me is that Kristi and Bobby are so brainwashed that they will testify on behalf their grandparents and tell the court what a pair of filthy rotten molesters their parents were.

I hope they find them soon.I cannot believe that they've been missing this long.

I hope so too. But fate seems to have been on the Maples' side from the very start (except in succeeding in convincing the court that the Baskins were child molesters).

I just looked at Sandra Maples' birthdate. She was born in the same year as my own mother (1937). So that makes her precisely the same age as my mother! That makes me feel sick...

Sandra Maples is also the same age as my mother.

As to the question regarding how the Maples could have fled town without anyone noticing, I wonder if there were people in town who actually believed the Maples' lies and turned a blind eye; perhaps even helping the Maples out of town. What was the town's reaction at the time of the custody battle? Could there be people in Murfreesboro who believe the Maples' story even to this day? Or does everyone know what an unbelievably crazy couple they were? One thing is for sure; the case will never, EVER be forgotten in Murfreesboro.

As to whether Mrs Baskin should have removed her children then and there, chances are that even if she had, the Maples would have tried something just as desperate anyway.

I have wondered the same thing many, many times. There's a couple of things to take into account here. For instance, the Maples had two other daughters besides Debbie. It's quite possible that those other daughters might have had children of their own - so when the Maples chose to spend the rest of their lives on the run and took Kristi and Bobby into hiding, they chose to shut out the rest of their family members lives as well. In the end, was it really worth it?

Given what little details from the segment we got, some facts STILL seem so confusing. The whole friction within the family started at Christmas when Debbie said that it was time to take the kids home with them to Louisville, Kentucky. Grandma Sandra had a royal fit and said, "but they're a part of our family now...Debbie, you can't do this to me!"

-I remember watching that part of the segment with my mom once and at that part, she said, "Oh lady...get your children out of there NOW!" I agreed with her. It was at this point that Debbie should have told her mother to back off. Don't give me this, "they're a part of our family now stuff..." They were ALWAYS a part of your family, psycho. But you have to let your children run their OWN lives. Surprisingly after that Christmas, the Baskins returned to Louisville alone. Why? I can't figure that out. My only guess is that the Baskins didn't want to have Kristi and Bobby change schools in the middle of the year...but that's just a guess.

The next part of the segment is even MORE confusing. Apparently after that Christmas, the family reached the point that the Baskins were no longer welcome in the Maples home when visiting their children. I'd like to know some extra details here. Why the h*** were they not welcome in the Maples home anymore? Why did these moron grandparents hate her so much for wanting to take HER children home with her? Was it because they felt like she was abandoning them? If that's the case, why all the drama? Did they forget that they have two other daughters as well? Besides, it could have been alot worse. They could have moved accross the country like California.

It's one thing to be posessive, but the Maples took it to a whole new, insane level. After making all the false allegations against the Baskins, the Maples were crazy enough to call them up on the phone and say, "Well, we know you have molested the children." It's at this point where I start to wonder if they actually believed their own lies. But we're talking about a couple here, not just one person. I don't think it's likely that BOTH of them could be that mentally ill that they would do this to their own family so I believe both of them knew full well what they were doing.

One of the reasons this case always broke my heart was that all of this could have been avoided at so many times...

1.) Judge Corlew took the Maples lies at face value WITHOUT talking with the Baskins OR the children. It just floors me that he could take the Baskins custory rights away without any proof.

2.) The Baskins told the police AND the children's lawyer several times that they were afraid the Maples would take the children and run...which is what eventually happened. But their concerns were always ignored.

One final question in this whole mess that always bugged me. How the h*** did the Maples quietly move all of their belongings and get out of town without anyone knowing? By the time child welfare was on to them, they were long gone and the house was empty. Who knows how long of a head start they might have had.

Such a tragic case. One that makes me sad and angry at the same time.

Well I'm the one who found out about the Katherine and Robert Farmer living in Colorado.

I did email Doe Network with the info that I found but I have not heard back from them.

But what I'm curious about is why the old guy would say that no Katherine lives there and then when you call back you get her on the answering machine. That's just odd.

Do you think it was Mr Maple that answered the phone?

I'd be surprised if Doe Network didn't follow up on my leads. But who knows maybe they're busy and haven't gotten to it yet.

I'm just surprised with all the technology now that the Baskins haven't set up a website for their kids.

Say, did anyone ever see the Oprah Winfrey programme, "My Mother Won't Give Me My Baby Back"? I saw this not long after the Baskin segment on Unsolved Mysteries. Seems Oprah had been getting hundreds of letters from mothers in a similar position to the Baskins; grandmothers who look after their grandchildren for a while and then don't give them back.

I was most surprised to see Mrs Baskin on the programme. She was in the audience and accosted another problem grandmother.

As a matter of fact the problem has become so widespread they made a telemovie about it: "A Kidnapping in the Family" with Kate Jackson as the nutty grandmother. This movie was based on no particular case but was a composite of real-life cases. Perhaps the Baskin and Pat Farmer cases were among them.
When was this episodeon with Oprah Winfrey?

Was it recently?

When was this episodeon with Oprah Winfrey?

Was it recently?

Definitely not recently. I saw it shortly after the Baskin segment so it was about 1989/90. By the way, they did a telemovie, "A Kidnapping in the Family" which was a composite of such cases: a crazy grandmother laying false charges of child molesting against her daughter, then kidnapping the child with the help of an underground railroad. You might like to grab that if it has been released on DVD. Kate Jackson played the grandmother.

I remember from the Baskin segment that the judge ordered both the Maples and Baskins to undergo psychiatric assessments (I suppose that was SOMETHING he did right). Does anyone know what the results were for the Maples? Did it shed any light on their conduct?

I saw elsewhere that when Anita Flagg interviewed the children she realised they were being coached. But why the hell didn't she act upon it? Or did she try to and the stupid judge messed up again? And here's another thing I can't understand; once Anita realised the children were being coached, why the hell didn't the judge remove the children from the Maples' custody?

I have an idea! Why doesn't Michael Baskin set up the website for his brother and sister? The children may be totally against their parents by now, but how would they feel about their brother? Suppose the brother made an appeal?

Well I'm the one who found out about the Katherine and Robert Farmer living in Colorado.

I did email Doe Network with the info that I found but I have not heard back from them.

But what I'm curious about is why the old guy would say that no Katherine lives there and then when you call back you get her on the answering machine. That's just odd.

Do you think it was Mr Maple that answered the phone?

I'd be surprised if Doe Network didn't follow up on my leads. But who knows maybe they're busy and haven't gotten to it yet.

I'm just surprised with all the technology now that the Baskins haven't set up a website for their kids.

I still don't understand why the Maples didn't take the youngest as well, especially if the Baskins were sexually abusing these children. As for the website, I think it's a great idea. I can't imagine what they would have against their younger brother... unless the Maples have made him out to be a big villian, too... :(

I saw elsewhere that when Anita Flagg interviewed the children she realised they were being coached. But why the hell didn't she act upon it? Or did she try to and the stupid judge messed up again? And here's another thing I can't understand; once Anita realised the children were being coached, why the hell didn't the judge remove the children from the Maples' custody?

This is just my own theory on that. This case occured when judges, social workers and LE were all hot and heavy over Satanic Ritual Abuse which is essentially what the Maples were accusing the Baskins of. At the time, any social worker, judge or member of LE who voiced any sort of disbelief on the subject was risking his or her career. I'm not saying that Anita Flagg not bringing the coaching up or the judge not listening to her were right. At the time, people who spoke out against SRA were villified by everybody who believed in it. Several people were also accused of being part of the grand conspiracy simply for saying that SRA didn't exist. At the time, it was also pretty easy to get custody of kids if SRA was mentioned. The consensus opinion was that children could not be coached and that they always told the truth. There were cases just like this one all over the country at the time. No matter how ridiculous or impossible the claims were, they were almost always believed. People wound up in prison over it, people lost children and jobs over it. It really was a huge monster of a thing in the 80's and early 90's.

As for the website, I think it's a great idea. I can't imagine what they would have against their younger brother... unless the Maples have made him out to be a big villian, too... :(

I have always suspected that the Maples told Kristi and Bobby that their parents died. That way, they would never think to look for them some day. They could just have easily told them that Michael died in some random car accident or something like that also. Hey, they lied about everything else, why not lie about that?

Yeah but what I would think is this....

Who hasn't googled their own name?? I have. I've even googled my whole family, friends and even some boyfriends and co-workers. Just to see what would pop up.

Most people who have the interent tend to do things like that. At least I would think they would. You hear it all the time on tv about people googling other people. I'd find it strange if they had internet service and didn't google themselves.

UNLESS.... aren't the amish people not into modern day things? Maybe they're hidden out in an Amish community where there isn't tv or internet or anything like that???

Oh yes, I forgot that this occurred during the time that satanic abuse scares were big. This is just my own theory on that. This case occured when judges, social workers and LE were all hot and heavy over Satanic Ritual Abuse which is essentially what the Maples were accusing the Baskins of. At the time, any social worker, judge or member of LE who voiced any sort of disbelief on the subject was risking his or her career. I'm not saying that Anita Flagg not bringing the coaching up or the judge not listening to her were right. At the time, people who spoke out against SRA were villified by everybody who believed in it. Several people were also accused of being part of the grand conspiracy simply for saying that SRA didn't exist. At the time, it was also pretty easy to get custody of kids if SRA was mentioned. The consensus opinion was that children could not be coached and that they always told the truth. There were cases just like this one all over the country at the time. No matter how ridiculous or impossible the claims were, they were almost always believed. People wound up in prison over it, people lost children and jobs over it. It really was a huge monster of a thing in the 80's and early 90's.

I don't the Maples were interested in the youngest; they didn't consider him part of their new family. As for leading them to believe Michael is a villain, I think it is far more likely that the Maples have led Bobby and Kristi to believe that Michael is dead. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if they are saying that their brother was ritually murdered in one of their parents' satanic rites...:mad:

I still don't understand why the Maples didn't take the youngest as well, especially if the Baskins were sexually abusing these children. As for the website, I think it's a great idea. I can't imagine what they would have against their younger brother... unless the Maples have made him out to be a big villian, too... :(

I still don't understand why the Maples didn't take the youngest as well(

I think the Maples would have ideally liked to take Michael as well, but Kristin and Bobby had already lived with them for several months, so they had an opportunity to get a head start at brainwashing them.

As for Kristin and Bobby thinking that either Michael or their parents are dead, I would highly doubt that. There's little chance they didn't catch wind of the huge battle that was going on between their parents and grandparents.

Ok, first of all I think one of the Maples is dead, probably the grandmother, which would explain her not living at the residence but her voice on the answering machine. They are probably in their late 70s now and I would think that the kids are married and living on their own now.

Yeah but didn't the answering machine say This is katherine? And when the person who called them asked for Katherine, the older guy said no one lives there by that name. So if Kathering didn't live there then why would her name and voice be on the answering machine?

I do agree though that one of the Maples is probably dead. And that the kids probably have kids of their own by now.

The kids are in my age group - I'm 26. They'd have to have social security numbers and proof of identities to go to school and hold jobs, but if the Maples have access to the underground network they may have taken care of that.

I believe Marvin and Sandra would be around 70 years old by now.

The kids are in my age group - I'm 26. They'd have to have social security numbers and proof of identities to go to school and hold jobs, but if the Maples have access to the underground network they may have taken care of that.

I believe Marvin and Sandra would be around 70 years old by now.

Sandra is now 70 (born 1937) and Marvin is 71 (born 1936).

This underground railroad really disgusts me. I can understand that they mean well, but don't they think of getting their facts straight before offering their services? In the movie "A Kidnapping in the Family" they are portrayed as well-meaning but gullible; they take the crazy grandmother's claims (that not only did the mother abuse the child but the courts and police couldn't care less) at face value and don't check things out properly. Then when they get the segment about the kidnapping they still don't believe it. They still think the mother is a child abuser who is trying to take them all in. This could well be the case with the Unsolved Mysteries segment. I find it difficult to believe that the underground railroad is not aware of it. Can't they just consider for one moment that they have been duped and are helping criminals instead of an abused child? Don't they ever consider that they are helping the wrong people? Don't they think of getting their facts straight? Or are they just too narrow minded?

Ok, first of all I think one of the Maples is dead, probably the grandmother, which would explain her not living at the residence but her voice on the answering machine. They are probably in their late 70s now and I would think that the kids are married and living on their own now.

Frankly, I think it would be a whole lot better if one or both of the Maples is now dead. After all they are in their seventies - very old to go to prison, especially when American prisons are so violent. Mind you, I wouldn't have any sympathy with them if one or both goes to jail. However if one or either of them is alive it would stir up the old trouble. And it would be utterly, utterly horrible if Bobby and Kristi go up on the stand in defence of their grandparents by saying what a nasty pair of child molesters their parents were.

Agree! But, how is it that no school was ever able to trace these kids? I find it amazing that no one made a media blitz with the pictures of these kids and didnt distribute them to every school in the country!

Indeed! The more I look at this case the more I see that there was so much that could have been done differently. Karen Hornsby, for example, wishing to goodness she had heeded the Baskins' warnings that the Maples might abduct the children and should keep an eye on them. If things had been done differently - if just one thing, maybe, the Maples might never have made off with the children or been caught pretty quickly.

Agree! But, how is it that no school was ever able to trace these kids? I find it amazing that no one made a media blitz with the pictures of these kids and didnt distribute them to every school in the country!

Yes. Yes! Yes!!!

We need some kind of law similar to the sex offender registries. It needs to be federal so it applies to all states.

When children are reported missing for more than, say, a certain time period, information that law enforcement has gathered about the children and possibly the abductors needs to be entered into a national database. If the child is recovered the information should be removed.

Then, when children are enrolled in school, the school should be required to enter the information into the computer system and/or check descriptions of the children with descriptions of the missing. The people who enrolled the children, if they met them, can also check the pictures.

Children can be enrolled in school with phony records. However, if schools have to enter new enrollees into a computer system that compares the information with the information of the missing children, this would assist a great deal in recovery.

Okay well thinking about the underground railroad thing....

I can understand them helping out 'BAD' people years and years ago like in the 80's because of course they don't want to contact the police to see if these people are telling the truthor not. They try to keep these things undercover. And the internet wasn't really around back then. So to check up on these people wanting to 'hide' to see if there is any truth to it would have been hard.

BUT... with the technology today, and with practically everyone in the world having the internet at home, work or even going to a freinds house or the library, I find it hard to believe that nowadays that the underground railroad would help 'bad' people. Because unlike the 80's, they can now look up what the parent or parents are saying and then search the internet to see if they're telling the truth.

What we can only hope is that someday someone who helped the Maples, find out the truth and then contacts the police with their whereabouts.

I also think that at the Maple's age, it wouldn't matter if they went to jail or not. Of course they should suffer for putting everyone through so much pain. But at their age, they most likely won't live that long. And for the kids to have to go through a trial would be so hard. That I hope if they are ever found that they can reconcile with their parents and brother and dump their lousy grandparents!!!!

Does anyone know how old Michael Baskin would be? I was wondering if he's on MySpace. But I'm not sre of his age.

They would both be in their mid-twenties, I believe. And at one point, someone had found a MySpace page that could have been Kristi Baskin. I'm not sure what became of that theory, but it was an interesting revelation, nonetheless.

Today, Michael Baskin is 24 years old. And according to PeopleFinders.com, he lives in Arcadia, Florida as do his parents Mark and Debbie Baskin who are now 52 and 49 years old.

I just checked MySpace.com and it doesn't look like Michael has a MySpace account.

Okay well thinking about the underground railroad thing....

I can understand them helping out 'BAD' people years and years ago like in the 80's because of course they don't want to contact the police to see if these people are telling the truthor not. They try to keep these things undercover. And the internet wasn't really around back then. So to check up on these people wanting to 'hide' to see if there is any truth to it would have been hard.

BUT... with the technology today, and with practically everyone in the world having the internet at home, work or even going to a freinds house or the library, I find it hard to believe that nowadays that the underground railroad would help 'bad' people. Because unlike the 80's, they can now look up what the parent or parents are saying and then search the internet to see if they're telling the truth.

What we can only hope is that someday someone who helped the Maples, find out the truth and then contacts the police with their whereabouts.

I also think that at the Maple's age, it wouldn't matter if they went to jail or not. Of course they should suffer for putting everyone through so much pain. But at their age, they most likely won't live that long. And for the kids to have to go through a trial would be so hard. That I hope if they are ever found that they can reconcile with their parents and brother and dump their lousy grandparents!!!!

All the same I find it hard to believe that the underground railroad would have protected the Maples for so long without realising they were helping the wrong people. After all, there is the Unsolved Mysteries story and the profiles on the Dole Network. Moreover, doesn't the underground railroad find it odd that the two alleged child molesters had a third child but the Maples were making no effort to protect him with the underground railroad or remove him from his parents? Come to think of it, does the underground railroad need to hide the children anymore now that they are grown? All the more reason to have a website, preferably set up by Michael Baskin. Bobby and Kristi may be more likely to respond if it was Michael.

For those who have a MySpace page and can access it... here's the page that I found for a Kristi Farmer that matched Kristi Baskin using the alias last name. I did contact her a long time ago and asked her if she had a brother named Robert. She wrote back and said no.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=9255112

But it doesn't seem to fit the missing Katherine Baskin.

Here's another one that I found...

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=59256577

Probably not her either though.

For those who have a MySpace page and can access it... here's the page that I found for a Kristi Farmer that matched Kristi Baskin using the alias last name. I did contact her a long time ago and asked her if she had a brother named Robert. She wrote back and said no.

Kristi and Bobby's alias names while the Maples were hiding in Santa Clara were Robin and Robbie Farmer, not Kristi and Bobby Farmer. Maybe you should look up those names and see if anything comes up.

All the same I find it hard to believe that the underground railroad would have protected the Maples for so long without realising they were helping the wrong people. After all, there is the Unsolved Mysteries story and the profiles on the Dole Network. Moreover, doesn't the underground railroad find it odd that the two alleged child molesters had a third child but the Maples were making no effort to protect him with the underground railroad or remove him from his parents? Come to think of it, does the underground railroad need to hide the children anymore now that they are grown? All the more reason to have a website, preferably set up by Michael Baskin. Bobby and Kristi may be more likely to respond if it was Michael.

The thing you don't take into account though is a lot of the folks who run these "underground railroads" are generally viewed as criminals themselves by law enforcement. In my view they don't usually have the highest scruples themselves and will hide nearly anyone out who might be able to get them funds or some incentive or whatnot.

Its not a legitimate screening process by any means is what I'm trying to say.

Well what I was doing while searching was alternating the names around. Using various forms of their names. But here are more that I found...

This one especially... if you look at her pictures and then look at the last picture of her child, her oldest looks like Kristi Baskins missing picture. What do you guys think??

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=108961113&MyToken=a759d383-5e4e-4b9e-bb17-0b81f67b8928

Well what I was doing while searching was alternating the names around. Using various forms of their names. But here are more that I found...

This one especially... if you look at her pictures and then look at the last picture of her child, her oldest looks like Kristi Baskins missing picture. What do you guys think??

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=108961113&MyToken=a759d383-5e4e-4b9e-bb17-0b81f67b8928

Leads like this are definitely food for thought and I hope they do lead to something. But one thing puzzles me: if Bobby and Kristi are still living in hiding they would be more likely to keep a low profile than post photographs in MySpace. So if these MySpace links really are leading to them why are they putting them up? Perhaps they think there is no longer any need to hide?

Yeah, I didn't know about the second update, either. It just doesn't make sense to me that grandparents could kill their grandkids. I can understand the threats, but it's hard to believe that they could follow through on that plan.

I don't know, though. Humans constantly find ways to shock the hell out of me.

Yes, this case certainly shows how desperation can turn people, ordinary people like you and me into utter monsters. The Maples, to the best of my knowledge, used to be upright citizens, delightful parents to Debbie and had never been in any trouble with the law. Now look what they've become, and all out of desperation. And just imagine if they had succeeded in convincing the court that the Baskins were child molesters. Would they have any compunction about sending their own daughter and son-in-law to prison for crimes that they knew were not true? Of course they must have thoroughly convinced themselves that the charges were true, but deep, deep down they must have known they were deluding themselves.

Hi, I'm new to this board.

I've been fascinated by this case since I saw it on UM.

I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering why (and I've seen these ??? posted here), now that these kids are grown-up, their parents aren't launching a media assault. Now that Bobby and Kristi could actually have access to the television and the internet, why aren't the parents calling Nancy Grace, standing behind Al Roker with a sign while he does the weather on the TODAY show, making a myspace page, contacting anyone and everyone to get this story aired again, not just in re-runs of UM?

Well, that was quite a run-on... I know it must have been terribly emotionally draining for this family, and they had to go back to a semi-normal life. To me there are so many kids missing that are probably dead and their families don't have much to hope for; where this family can hope, given the situation, these two are probably still alive somewhere.
AND, this didn't happen all that long ago, 1989.

Thanks for letting me join in and vent. Maybe the family IS doing something that we're all just not aware of yet. I hope so.

I guess it's also not illegal for me or someone outside the family to make a myspace page focusing on these two.

I agree very much with what you said Awsi, for the Baskin children to be found I believe its not a matter of Kristi or Bobby seeing themselves either on UM or on the internet and asking questions (this would've happened long before now in my opinion unless The Maples have them brainwashed or buried in a rat hole somewhere cut off from all human contact which would be something else) but The Maples messing up just like families of Alex Kelly and JJH did leading to the fugitives being captured.

Also The Maples did have two other daughters I believe besides Debbie. Thats what baffles me as well, because of this stupid decision The Maples made, they not only cut the baskin children away from their parents but also isolated themselves from their entire family.

Seriously I wonder sometimes if the kidnapping of the children was a knee-jerk decision and one The Maples refuse to rectify to this day because they are afraid of going to prison?

I dunno it just makes no sense to me.

You mention the Maples other children. I wonder if any of Debbie Baskins siblings actually helped their parents in escaping. Or did they side with the Baskins? Anyone know?

Another BIG ???

In the piece on UM about the Baskin children, the Maples home was found to be vacant and for sale. If they owned the house, where did the money from the sale end up? Did police try to trace that? That part of the story always made me curious.

I've been reading this board for a while and now finally registered, you're getting all my questions at one.

Has Died:

Estelle KUYKENDALL
Age 89
March 25, 2007
Rutherford
Age 89 of LaVergne, died Sunday, March 25, 2007. A member of LaVergne Church of Christ, she is survived by her husband, Homer Kuykendall; daughters, Sandra Maple and Sally Sawyer; 8 grandchildren, 17 great-grandchildren and 2 great-great-grandchildren; sisters, Allie Carter and Ann Posey. Funeral services will be 10 a.m. Wednesday, at Woodfin Chapel, Smyrna, with Houston Bynum officiating. Burial will be at Woodlawn Memorial Park at 12 Noon Wednesday. Visitation will be 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. Tuesday at WOODFIN CHAPEL, Smyrna, TN 615-459-3254.

http://dbease.tennessean.com/dbEase/cgi-bin/go_get.pl
____________________________________________________________________

Estelle Kuykendall, age 89 of LaVergne, died Sunday March 25, 2007.

A native of Alabama. she was preceded in death by her parents, Thomas and Ada Lee Cobb Morris.

Mrs. Kuykendall was a member of LaVergne Church of Christ.

She is survived by her husband of 71 years Homer Kuykendall; daughters, Sandra Maple and Sally Sawyer; grandchildren, Sherry Dallas, Patti Steelman, Diane Thomas, Harold and Scott Sawyer, Christopher Peltier, and Lisa Cadet; 17 great-grandchildren and two great-great- grandchildren; and sisters, Allie Carter and Ann Posey.

Funeral services will be 10 a.m. Wednesday at Woodfin Chapel, Smyrna with Houston Bynum officiating. Burial will be at Woodlawn Memorial Park at 12 noon Wednesday. Visitation will be 4-8 p.m. Tuesday at Woodfin Chapel, Smyrna 459-3254.
http://www.murfreesboropost.com/news.php?viewStory=3269

:confused: (Funny, this one doesn’t list Debbie Baskin as one of her grandchildren.)
I gather that Sherry, Patti and Diane are Debbie’s sisters)

:confused: (Funny, this one doesn’t list Debbie Baskin as one of her grandchildren.)
I gather that Sherry, Patti and Diane are Debbie’s sisters)


I've also found a website by Patti Steelman, it has no references to the Maples or the Baskin's. No pictures in the picture section of any of them. No
link to missing children in her "Links". Site only mentions sister Sherry, not mention of Debbie or if Diane is her sibling also, no mention of her. Must be part of what Debbie Baskin meant when she said she lost her family.

Also found Sherry's daughter's myspace. No mention of missing cousins.:(
Is that because they know where they are?

Has Died:

Estelle KUYKENDALL
Age 89
March 25, 2007
Rutherford
Age 89 of LaVergne, died Sunday, March 25, 2007. A member of LaVergne Church of Christ, she is survived by her husband, Homer Kuykendall; daughters, Sandra Maple and Sally Sawyer; 8 grandchildren, 17 great-grandchildren and 2 great-great-grandchildren; sisters, Allie Carter and Ann Posey. Funeral services will be 10 a.m. Wednesday, at Woodfin Chapel, Smyrna, with Houston Bynum officiating. Burial will be at Woodlawn Memorial Park at 12 Noon Wednesday. Visitation will be 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. Tuesday at WOODFIN CHAPEL, Smyrna, TN 615-459-3254.

http://dbease.tennessean.com/dbEase/cgi-bin/go_get.pl
____________________________________________________________________

Estelle Kuykendall, age 89 of LaVergne, died Sunday March 25, 2007.

A native of Alabama. she was preceded in death by her parents, Thomas and Ada Lee Cobb Morris.

Mrs. Kuykendall was a member of LaVergne Church of Christ.

She is survived by her husband of 71 years Homer Kuykendall; daughters, Sandra Maple and Sally Sawyer; grandchildren, Sherry Dallas, Patti Steelman, Diane Thomas, Harold and Scott Sawyer, Christopher Peltier, and Lisa Cadet; 17 great-grandchildren and two great-great- grandchildren; and sisters, Allie Carter and Ann Posey.

Funeral services will be 10 a.m. Wednesday at Woodfin Chapel, Smyrna with Houston Bynum officiating. Burial will be at Woodlawn Memorial Park at 12 noon Wednesday. Visitation will be 4-8 p.m. Tuesday at Woodfin Chapel, Smyrna 459-3254.
http://www.murfreesboropost.com/news.php?viewStory=3269

:confused: (Funny, this one doesn’t list Debbie Baskin as one of her grandchildren.)
I gather that Sherry, Patti and Diane are Debbie’s sisters)

I noticed she was married for 71 years...thats great! I hope there will be a few very watchful eyes at the funeral in case that lousy Sandra Maples decides to make an appearance.

Interesting. I agree, that is very strange that Debbie isn't listed as one of the grandchildren. I wonder why that is. The Unsolved Mysteries segment mentioned that the Maples only had 3 daughters - maybe that was mistake?

Whatever the case, thanks for the heads up. 71 years of marriage and living long enough to see 2 great, great grandchildren...wow.

Rest in peace, Estelle. I'm very sorry you had to give birth to such a rotten excuse for a daughter who would willingly destroy her own family.

I noticed she was married for 71 years...thats great! I hope there will be a few very watchful eyes at the funeral in case that lousy Sandra Maples decides to make an appearance.

Tense check.

That funeral was two months ago.

Tense check.

That funeral was two months ago.

Okay just for you Awsi:

"I hope there were a few watchful eyes at the funeral in case that lousy Sandra Maples decided to make an appearance."

Is that better...:p

Okay just for you Awsi:

"I hope there were a few watchful eyes at the funeral in case that lousy Sandra Maples decided to make an appearance."

Is that better...:p

Not really. Since it was two months ago we want answers, not hopes. Do some research and let us know who was watching and what they saw. :whip

We'll be loose on the deadline. :D

And we're sure that this is the same family?

And we're sure that this is the same family?

It must be. The daughter is listed as SANDRA Maple - and her maiden name was Kuykendal.

And just in case anyone was interested, the Maples have finally been given computer age progressed photos on the missing person sights -

http://www.forthelost.org/family/baskin.html

Do you have the link to that MySpace page? I'd like to chck it out... Thanks!

I'll send it to you in a private msg. She's only 18, so I don't want to broadcast it. She was born the year they disappeared, so she might not even know about it.

Sorry, another thing.

What I said in my post above about the cousin not knowing is because
I just am gathering that this might be one of the most highly dysfunctional extended families going.

I'll send it to you in a private msg. She's only 18, so I don't want to broadcast it. She was born the year they disappeared, so she might not even know about it.

Could you send it to me too? I'd like to check it out. I won't contact her or anything.

Where are Debbie and Mark Baskin now? Wasn't the youngest son named Michael?

Where are Debbie and Mark Baskin now? Wasn't the youngest son named Michael?

According to PeopleFinders.com, they now live Arcadia, Florida. Michael, who is their youngest son, also now lives in Arcadia. He is 24 years old.

According to PeopleFinders.com, they now live Arcadia, Florida. Michael, who is their youngest son, also now lives in Arcadia. He is 24 years old.



I see. Thank you. :)

I was hoping to find a Myspace for Michael, but no such luck so far.

I noticed she was married for 71 years...thats great! I hope there will be a few very watchful eyes at the funeral in case that lousy Sandra Maples decides to make an appearance.

I doubt she would turn up - except maybe from a distance. She may not even have heard that her mother had died. Stupid Sandra! Another consequence of her foolishness - cutting herself off from her own parents and not being able to say goodbye.

I had no idea that Sandra Maple's parents were still alive when they committed their crimes. I wonder what the great-grandparents thought of their daughter's action and the abduction of their great-grandchildren? Can they (or rather, the great-grandfather) shed any light on why their daughter acted in this manner?

I doubt she would turn up - except maybe from a distance. She may not even have heard that her mother had died. Stupid Sandra! Another consequence of her foolishness - cutting herself off from her own parents and not being able to say goodbye.

I had no idea that Sandra Maple's parents were still alive when they committed their crimes. I wonder what the great-grandparents thought of their daughter's action and the abduction of their great-grandchildren? Can they (or rather, the great-grandfather) shed any light on why their daughter acted in this manner?

Seeing that Mrs. Kuykendall's remaining family did not list any of the Baskin's as survivors, I doubt they want to be helpful to authorities. Unless someone dragged some of them in for questioning by the police. Doesn't look like that's happening. Some of them may very well know where Sandra, Marvin, Robert and Katharine are. Then again, they may not know.

How terrible if any of them do know something and they are keeping it secret. If they are keeping secrets, they are truly evil, heartless people.

Doesn't any of them realize that Sandra and Marvin could have just as easily become obsessive/possesive about their children and taken them instead of Robby and Kristi? Some of Robby and Kristi's cousin may not have been born yet in 1989, but if this hadn't happened with Robby and Kristi, it would have happened sooner or later with other grandkids of Sanda and Marvin.

On the question of Sandra Maple cutting herself off from her entire family by kidnapping her grandchildren, I can think of two reasons in her warped mind:

1: She blames her 'child molesting' daughter for being isolated from her family. It is strange that she doesn't seem to have used them to help hide Bobby and Kristi as well.

2: If the other members of the family sided with Debbie and Mark, Sandra would likely turn against them as well, maybe even viewing them as members of this same 'satanic cult' and a threat to Bobby and Kristi.

Briony

From what I've gathered (which may not be the case) it seems that some of the family may have cut-off Debbie & Mark Baskin, siding with Sandra & Marvin Maple. Debbie's family didn't list her in her grandmother's obituary.

So I'm gathering that there is a possibility that some of Debbie's extended family (her sisters or Sandra's sister) might know the whereabouts of Robby and Kristy and the Maple's.

Your points are well taken with why some might be helping the Maple's stay hidden.

Of course I'm speculating. I don't know these people....:rolleyes:

On the question of Sandra Maple cutting herself off from her entire family by kidnapping her grandchildren, I can think of two reasons in her warped mind:

1: She blames her 'child molesting' daughter for being isolated from her family. It is strange that she doesn't seem to have used them to help hide Bobby and Kristi as well.

2: If the other members of the family sided with Debbie and Mark, Sandra would likely turn against them as well, maybe even viewing them as members of this same 'satanic cult' and a threat to Bobby and Kristi.

Briony

Oh, another thought. Debbie & Mark Baskin may have accused family members of helping or knowing things, thus creating a rift. Or just had so
many suspicions that it was impossible to stay close to them. Or just in the course of the whole mess, things were said, feelings were hurt, etc...

Maybe this has already been mentioned, but could it be that other family members just didn't know what had happened and chose not to take any sides in the matter?

...or maybe my family is just more diplomatic than most. I'm not sure. :lol:

Lucky you!;)

It sure would be nice if no one took sides. This whole thing must have been highly emotionally charged. It would have taken quite a family not to end up
estranged from each other.

Maybe this has already been mentioned, but could it be that other family members just didn't know what had happened and chose not to take any sides in the matter?

...or maybe my family is just more diplomatic than most. I'm not sure. :lol:

From what I've gathered (which may not be the case) it seems that some of the family may have cut-off Debbie & Mark Baskin, siding with Sandra & Marvin Maple. Debbie's family didn't list her in her grandmother's obituary.

Oh, dear! You mean some of the family actually believe the charges laid against Debbie and Mark? If so, then why the heck have they allowed the third child, Michael, to remain in the hands of the Baskins? Why not sue for custody of Michael as well? Or even abduct Michael and hide him along with his siblings?

I wonder if Debbie and Mark attended the great-grandmother's funeral? Were they even invited?:confused:

Briony

So I'm gathering that there is a possibility that some of Debbie's extended family (her sisters or Sandra's sister) might know the whereabouts of Robby and Kristy and the Maple's.

Your points are well taken with why some might be helping the Maple's stay hidden.

Of course I'm speculating. I don't know these people....:rolleyes:

>>Oh, dear! You mean some of the family actually believe the charges laid against Debbie and Mark? If so, then why the heck have they allowed the third child, Michael, to remain in the hands of the Baskins? Why not sue for custody of Michael as well? Or even abduct Michael and hide him along with his siblings?

I wonder if Debbie and Mark attended the great-grandmother's funeral? Were they even invited?

Briony
<<

Yes, that's what I gather. In the interview on U.M. Debbie says something about "losing her family" obviously in reference to losing her children and her parents going against her, but I think also possibly in reference to other family members.

Or even if some of the other family doesn't think that debbie & mark did anything wrong, they may have at the time not wanted to help because they knew the sandra and marvin would be arrested and charged w/kidnapping if found.

So the Grandmother's obituary made it more clear the Debbie must not be considered part of the family, as they didn't list her (in the one that actually names the Grandchildren). Unless the newspaper or someone just simply made a mistake.

Oh, and about the younger brother? That is weird. I don't know.

Seeing that Mrs. Kuykendall's remaining family did not list any of the Baskin's as survivors, I doubt they want to be helpful to authorities. Unless someone dragged some of them in for questioning by the police. Doesn't look like that's happening. Some of them may very well know where Sandra, Marvin, Robert and Katharine are. Then again, they may not know.

How terrible if any of them do know something and they are keeping it secret. If they are keeping secrets, they are truly evil, heartless people.

Doesn't any of them realize that Sandra and Marvin could have just as easily become obsessive/possesive about their children and taken them instead of Robby and Kristi? Some of Robby and Kristi's cousin may not have been born yet in 1989, but if this hadn't happened with Robby and Kristi, it would have happened sooner or later with other grandkids of Sanda and Marvin.

For that matter, what's to stop the Maples from abducting Bobby/Kristi's children at some point? Assuming Bobby and/or Kristi are beginning to produce children, suppose the Maples become equally possessive about their great-grandchildren and pull the same lousy trick on Bobby/Kristi that they pulled on Debbie and Mark? Sure, they may be advancing in years, but you never know...

Oh, another thought. Debbie & Mark Baskin may have accused family members of helping or knowing things, thus creating a rift. Or just had so
many suspicions that it was impossible to stay close to them. Or just in the course of the whole mess, things were said, feelings were hurt, etc...

It could also be that the relatives made the mistake of believing Sandra and Marvin's allegations when the trouble blew up. Later they realised their mistake (or refused to acknowledge it) but the damage was done. They may have been too embarrassed/ashamed/proud to admit their mistake, or Debbie found their conduct unforgiveable. Either way, they could never speak again.

Stinky Sandra! Thanks to her the entire family seems to have been torn asunder by conflicting loyalties! How is it that we, total strangers, are on Debbie's side while some members of her own family may have turned against her?

Say, what about the relatives on Marvin and Mark's side of the family? How did they react?

It could also be that the relatives made the mistake of believing Sandra and Marvin's allegations when the trouble blew up. Later they realised their mistake (or refused to acknowledge it) but the damage was done. They may have been too embarrassed/ashamed/proud to admit their mistake, or Debbie found their conduct unforgiveable. Either way, they could never speak again.

Stinky Sandra! Thanks to her the entire family seems to have been torn asunder by conflicting loyalties! How is it that we, total strangers, are on Debbie's side while some members of her own family may have turned against her?

Say, what about the rellatives on Marvin and Mark's side of the family? How did they react?

I think you're right about what you said about pride and loyalties.

I would imagine that Mark's family is on his side, couldn't say about the extended Maples family.

What a mess!:(

I think you're right about what you said about pride and loyalties.

I would imagine that Mark's family is on his side, couldn't say about the extended Maples family.

What a mess!:(

And what do they think about Michael? Assuming some members of Sandra's family have turned against Debbie, what are their feelings in regard to her remaining son? Aren't they concerned about Michael's safety? Don't they find it weird that Sandra and Marvin allowed the parents they were accusing of child molesting to stay with them? If so, they were as idiotic as the judge!

And what do they think about Michael? Assuming some members of Sandra's family have turned against Debbie, what are their feelings in regard to her remaining son? Aren't they concerned about Michael's safety? Don't they find it weird that Sandra and Marvin allowed the parents they were accusing of child molesting to stay with them? If so, they were as idiotic as the judge!


Good question! Beats me! For some reason it all seemed to be about the older two kids. Doesn't make any sense, although obviously am glad that not all their children were taken!

It's too bad that all of you people posting, INCLUDING the people that know the Baskins, have only heard one side of the story, and yet jump to all of those horrible conclusions about the Maples.......you should be ashamed of yourselves. :mad:

It's too bad that all of you people posting, INCLUDING the people that know the Baskins, have only heard one side of the story, and yet jump to all of those horrible conclusions about the Maples.......you should be ashamed of yourselves. :mad:

Ummmmm....sure. If the Maples are innocent, why did they run away? Why have they been in hiding from the FBI for 17 years? Why did they abandon their entire family to kidnap 2 of their grandchildren and why did they make no effort to kidnap Michael either?

Sounds like innocent people to me.

It's too bad that all of you people posting, INCLUDING the people that know the Baskins, have only heard one side of the story, and yet jump to all of those horrible conclusions about the Maples.......you should be ashamed of yourselves. :mad:

Care to expand on your thoughts a bit more?

It's too bad that all of you people posting, INCLUDING the people that know the Baskins, have only heard one side of the story, and yet jump to all of those horrible conclusions about the Maples.......you should be ashamed of yourselves. :mad:

The Maples side of the story is really irrelevant because there's no way that they (nor you) can justify the several crimes that they committed, and it can be proven that they committed them. Additionally, there's no judge in the country that would not send them to prison (except for the possibility of Corlew, who is largely responsible for this ever happening to begin with.)

^ Actually its not irrelevant at all in fact if ever disclosed it might be one of the most important revelations related to this show. While obviously I'm totally on the side of The Baskins in this matter, the segment in my opinion is inadequate in explaining why The Maples began feuding with their daughter and son in-law to begin with because at one time they all seemed pretty close.

The UM segment made it seem that these once loving grandparents just suddenly snapped and went insane. So I'd say The Maples side of the story is very relevant although I'm not saying whatever their motive is it would justify what they did and I hope one day they are brought to justice for their crime.

^ Actually its not irrelevant at all in fact if ever disclosed it might be one of the most important revelations related to this show. While obviously I'm totally on the side of The Baskins in this matter, the segment in my opinion is inadequate in explaining why The Maples began feuding with their daughter and son in-law to begin with because at one time they all seemed pretty close.

The UM segment made it seem that these once loving grandparents just suddenly snapped and went insane. So I'd say The Maples side of the story is very relevant although I'm not saying whatever their motive is it would justify what they did and I hope one day they are brought to justice for their crime.


Yes, I agree that the Maples side of the story is important. They are still guilty of many crimes.

So, new poster, dipsahead? (can't see your post right now to get that right),
NOW THAT ROBERT AND KATHARINE ARE GROWN-UPS, WHY DON'T THEY COME FORWARD? Their parents deserve to know that they are o.k.

I think the Maples simply got attached to the kids, wanted to keep them. They either fabricated the abuse story, or took something dumb and innocent that the children said and twisted it around to be abuse. Either way, THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO TAKE THESE CHILDREN! The courts were involved, the courts could decide, would monitor the kids return to their parents if that was the decision.

I invite you to post their side of the story. I invite you, if you know them and where they are to let the kids (grown people) contact their parents. Tell the kids the truth and let them decide.

To me it sounds like this person (Dipahead) is either related to the Maples, is either Robert or Katharine themself or someone who is a relative or friend of Maples side of the story.

It would be interesting to find out who Dipahead is and wha connection he/she has to this story.

To me it sounds like this person (Dipahead) is either related to the Maples, is either Robert or Katharine themself or someone who is a relative or friend of Maples side of the story.

It would be interesting to find out who Dipahead is and wha connection he/she has to this story.

Well, "dipahead" is NOT Katharine or Robert. BUT, she is terrible at protecting her identity online. Within 10 min. of reading her post, I had her home address!

My suggestion to her is to tighten things up a bit, remove her last name from her myspace page, and possibly her town from everywhere. AND it's not smart to EVER put your real birthdate anywhere. :cool:

And, don't worry, I won't be sharing any of the info. I gathered. And I offer these suggestions out of concern.

Yes, she may be related to them in some way, very interesting.

Well, "dipahead" is NOT Katharine or Robert. BUT, she is terrible at protecting her identity online. Within 10 min. of reading her post, I had her home address!

She lists her hometown as Roseville, Michigan. That's just 20 miles from where I live.

It's too bad that all of you people posting, INCLUDING the people that know the Baskins, have only heard one side of the story, and yet jump to all of those horrible conclusions about the Maples.......you should be ashamed of yourselves. :mad:


Actually... as you can see, there are a bunch of posters who are interested in their side of the story. I, for one, would like to hear it. Please elaborate. While a lot of us have already formulated opinions, I can assure you that the majority of us will listen to what you have to say.

Do you know the Maples? ARE you one of the Maples? Please expand. We'd love to hear it.

Well, "dipahead" is NOT Katharine or Robert. BUT, she is terrible at protecting her identity online. Within 10 min. of reading her post, I had her home address!

My suggestion to her is to tighten things up a bit, remove her last name from her myspace page, and possibly her town from everywhere. AND it's not smart to EVER put your real birthdate anywhere. :cool:

And, don't worry, I won't be sharing any of the info. I gathered. And I offer these suggestions out of concern.

Yes, she may be related to them in some way, very interesting.


Oops, correction to post above, take your last name off of another networking site you made:rolleyes: , it's not on your myspace.

This underground railroad really disgusts me. I can understand that they mean well, but don't they think of getting their facts straight before offering their services? In the movie "A Kidnapping in the Family" they are portrayed as well-meaning but gullible; they take the crazy grandmother's claims (that not only did the mother abuse the child but the courts and police couldn't care less) at face value and don't check things out properly. Then when they get the segment about the kidnapping they still don't believe it. They still think the mother is a child abuser who is trying to take them all in. This could well be the case with the Unsolved Mysteries segment. I find it difficult to believe that the underground railroad is not aware of it. Can't they just consider for one moment that they have been duped and are helping criminals instead of an abused child? Don't they ever consider that they are helping the wrong people? Don't they think of getting their facts straight? Or are they just too narrow minded?
Oh my God...you talk about the underground railroad getting their facts straight, and yet you go on and on without having YOUR facts straight!

Oh my God...you talk about the underground railroad getting their facts straight, and yet you go on and on without having YOUR facts straight!

Well, why don't you give us your side of the story then?

Please?

The question that still bothers me like crazy to this day is the question of motive:

I have mentioned several times on the forums that I'm trained as a psychologist so I would love to know why The Maples did what they did. I know that we all subjectively think they are "rotten grandparents" or "rotten people" but the fact is Marvin and Sandra Maples are not career criminals.

From what we know they were responsible, law abiding citizens for most of their lives until this ugly dispute with their daughter over their grandchildren. So I'm wondering what the hell provoked this type of bizarre behavior (from keeping the children away from their parents to making false allegations of child abuse and finally kidnapping the two children)

Was it just a desire to have the "final say" in a court battle with Mark & Debbie? - Did Marvin and Sandra actually believe that the children were being sexually abused?

Or was this whole tragic ordeal part of a bigger scenerio that we know nothing about possibly involving the posessive nature of the grandparents in regards to their own children and then their grandchildren? (There is a part of the segment where Debbie says to Sandra "I miss my kids, they are my whole life" and Sandra replies "Well I miss you I thought you'd be the one who'd never leave me" which I always thought was a bit strange)

I dunno? - Thoughts?

A script.....written by Mark and Debbie and the producers...do you not think that it's been embellished? Twisted? Please tell me that as a person who's had training as a phychologist you don't take television, or any form of media, at face value!

A script.....written by Mark and Debbie and the producers...do you not think that it's been embellished? Twisted? Please tell me that as a person who's had training as a phychologist you don't take television, or any form of media, at face value!

Well this sounds eerily similar to the "joshmoe" incident. People come on and defend and try to make us feel sorry for these reprehensible people and then when they're given the chance to give us some more info and possibly tell another side of the story they are evasive and would rather just argue than tell what they know.

And you know this how? You were there?

Hmmmm.....let me give that some thought.......do ya think that MAYBE it's because the Maples were right and the family knew this???

Michael wasn't even in the same state or they would have tried to save him too.

I don't attempt to hide my identy. And if I were attempting to, you'd never know it. You don't know if I'm Bobby or Kristi.......this is the internet, I could be anyone. I am a relative, and there are facts here that you people know nothing about (obviously). I won't expand on them, because to do so would involve innocent people, which I will not do. Are all of you people saying that if you knew a child was being molested, and the courts were going to do nothing about it, that you would stand back and let it happen??

Are all of you people saying that if you knew a child was being molested, and the courts were going to do nothing about it, that you would stand back and let it happen??

Uhh, no. I don't think ANY of us said that. :mad:

Watching the segment again as I type this. I'll be back to edit with thoughts.

LATER: Okay, I've got a few things to add at this point. Dipahead, you're probably going to have choice words for me based on what I'm about to say. I'm still going to say it. I just recieved my Juris Doctor from law school. Based on my knowledge of Constitutional Law, the Baskins' constitutional rights to their children were violated. Under our laws, children are not to be taken from their families without NOTICE and a HEARING. Based on this, the judge in this case had NO right to assign temporary custody to the Maples when the allegations first surfaced, especially without talking to the Baskins first. Also, custody rights were granted back to the Baskins, which would NOT have been done had the allegations against them not been unfounded. I'm not saying that the justice system is perfect, but being a (mostly) unjaded graduate, I do believe that the system looks out for the best interests of the children and would NOT have placed them back in the custody of the Baskins had they REALLY and TRULY felt that the children were being abused.

It's also compelling to me that the COURT APPOINTED GUARDIAN of the children initially did NOT believe that the Maples would take Bobby and Kristi... and LATER came on UM, saying that she blames herself for the children being kidnapped. Frankly, I think that most of us are more concerned with whether or not Kristi and Bobby are still alive. Since you are related to the case, could you at least answer THIS question for us? Many of us fear that they are dead; could you please just put those people's worries to ease?

...what do you have to say about the allegations made by the Maples that the Baskins were part of a Satanic cult? Also, you made some snippy comment to Crystaldawn along the lines of "Were you there?" Okay, I'm going to shoot that very same question back at YOU. How do YOU know that Kristi and Bobby were being abused? Were YOU there? I don't mean any disrespect by this statement, but you hopefully can see my point. If you weren't there, how would you know it happened? REALLY?

I'm not trying to attack you in these observations. However, it's hard for me to take you at your word when all you've been doing is attacking the statements of others on this board without actually ANSWERING any of our questions. If Kristi and Bobby truly WERE being abused, I believe that a good number of us on these boards would understand the Maples reasoning for taking the children. However, we don't have enough evidence to believe that theory just yet. YOU can give this to us, if you would be so willing.

Hmmmm.....let me give that some thought.......do ya think that MAYBE it's because the Maples were right and the family knew this???

Bobby was evaluated by a psychiatrist after the Maples bogus claims, and there was NO, let me repeat NO evidence of molestation. and I'm sure if a general practice doctor evaluated him, he/she would have reached the same conclutsion. The psychiatrist stated that it sounded like Bobby was being coached. What's your response to that, hmm?

Michael wasn't even in the same state or they would have tried to save him too.

Oh, okay, so you admit the Maples kidnapped 2 of their grandchildren, and would have kidnapped a third. Do you know how much fear they instilled in their own grandchild, or what they put their own daughter and son-in-law through?

I don't attempt to hide my identy. And if I were attempting to, you'd never know it. You don't know if I'm Bobby or Kristi.......this is the internet, I could be anyone. I am a relative, and there are facts here that you people know nothing about (obviously). I won't expand on them, because to do so would involve innocent people, which I will not do. Are all of you people saying that if you knew a child was being molested, and the courts were going to do nothing about it, that you would stand back and let it happen??

I do know that you are not Katharine or Robert. I've seen your info. and picture on your myspace and your friendster accounts. You are (sorry) too old to be Katharine. You have kids that are too old for you to be Katharine. I believe you may be a related to them.

You really should try to hid your identity a bit more than you do. I came up with your home address within 10 min. That is just not safe in this world. Especially with pictures posted of cute little kids in your myspace photo area.

Too bad you didn't abduct them! You would have been lousy at hiding...

Bobby was evaluated by a psychiatrist after the Maples bogus claims, and there was NO, let me repeat NO evidence of molestation. and I'm sure if a general practice doctor evaluated him, he/she would have reached the same conclutsion. The psychiatrist stated that it sounded like Bobby was being coached. What's your response to that, hmm?


Also, Mark Baskin has since held many teaching positions, currently one at a high school. The Baskins were also allowed to adopt a child afterwards. I do not believe that either of these would be allowed if the allegations against them were true or if anyone had a shred of doubt about them.

Also, the Baskins WENT PUBLIC, very public with their dirty laundry. Stating on National Television that the Maples accused them of child molestation. They did not hide, they put it out there, knowing that any future potential employer could see it and question them. Knowing that their whole town and surrounding areas would them possibly look at them differently.

They put it out there for the possible return of their children.

So are the Baskin children merely waiting for Grandma and Gramps to die so that they can come out of hiding? So that Marvin and Sandra won't be arrested? How sad to be held hostage like that.

I'm sure these kids, given their ages when they were taken do not really remember what the truth is. They only remember what they've been told through the years by people who spirited them away. By people who they had to rely on for their food and shelter. By people who moved them around, changed their identities, turned their world upside down.

Kids will do whatever they have to in order to survive. Even if questioned today, they wouldn't really know truth from fiction. They would be like Shawn Hornbeck, so confused in loyalties that they go and post anonamously on the myspace site that their parents set up, rather than identify himself. And this kid was taken by a stranger, not his grandparents. So you'd think his loyalties would lie with his parents. Imagine someone taken by grandparents that they loved.

Here's a good site. It's for adult children that were abducted by a parent or relative:
[/URL]
[url]http://www.takeroot.org/missing.php (http://www.takeroot.org/missing.php)

Here's a quote from the story of Linnea, taken by her mother & stepfather when she was 8. She's talking about her father, tracking them to Turkey, then to Sweden-

"However, somehow he did, and started another court process in Sweden, trying to get visitation rights. By this time we were completely indoctrinated to hate him, so it was natural for me to even testify in court that I never wanted to see him again.

As my siblings and I approached adulthood, we started to question what we had been told, and wanted to see things in a different way. We wanted to hear our father’s side. One year my mother finally decided to not throw away the birthday card our paternal grandmother sent to us, and so we finally got in touch with her, and through her with our father.

So in the end I met my dad – 13 years after we were taken away. We are still getting to know each other, but our relationship is on the right track. I am happy to say he was the one who led me down the aisle at my wedding, and he helped my little son learn how to walk. Things can only get better."

Doesn't look like the link came through:

http://www.takeroot.org/missing.php

Linnea says in her story that she really has no real recollection of what events led up to her mother taking them on the run. "My story has always been a regurgitation of what others have told me. First, what others have ordered me to say, and later, my own patchwork of all the versions I have collected."

Read some of the stories of these adult children of abduction. You can learn a lot about what they went through and how their minds were manipulated.

Even if Robert or Katharine say to your face that they don't ever want to see their parents, they may really not be able to say openly what they feel, given the family situation with their grandparents and extended family.

You ask us to be open-minded, well, you should be to, and take into consideration, that there is no way you or any of us can REALLY understand what Robert and Katharine think or feel.

Are all of you people saying that if you knew a child was being molested, and the courts were going to do nothing about it, that you would stand back and let it happen??

What a ludicrous statement! I sure as heck wouldn't risk my freedom by KIDNAPPING any children and spending the rest of my life on the run. Kidnapping is punishable by up to life in prison. There would be so many other ways to fight this if any molestation TRULY happened....WITHOUT breaking the law.

You ask us how we can give an honest opinion about the molestation charges because WE WEREN'T THERE. Well, guess what? YOU WEREN'T THERE either. And here's the big one - the Maples WEREN'T THERE as well.

The police officer in charge of the investigation even said it was blatantly obvious that the Maples were coaching the children to lie - the stories they were coming up with were too fantastical and they got worse and more crazy. This was at the time while the Maples had full custody of the children.

There is NO defending these horrible people, they are criminals. Next thing you know, we'll have people coming here to defend Osama Bin Laden. Ugh.

Do you have the link to that MySpace page? I'd like to chck it out... Thanks!


I'm sorry, in a previous post, I told dipsahead that I wouldn't share the info. that I have gleaned.

http://www.haveyouseenmykids.com/foreword.html

Read all of it if you can. It goes into how this one person felt as a child about their Father who took her. Substitute Maple Grandparents and you might get a feel for how it really is for them.

http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/unreport.htm

Click on:

"Parental alienation and the overburdened child"

and

"What has been reported about abducted children"

I do know that you are not Katharine or Robert. I've seen your info. and picture on your myspace and your friendster accounts. You are (sorry) too old to be Katharine. You have kids that are too old for you to be Katharine. I believe you may be a related to them.

You really should try to hid your identity a bit more than you do. I came up with your home address within 10 min. That is just not safe in this world. Especially with pictures posted of cute little kids in your myspace photo area.

Too bad you didn't abduct them! You would have been lousy at hiding...
I wasn't trying to hide, I have no reason to......as I said before

I wasn't trying to hide, I have no reason to......as I said before


I'm glad you have no reason to hide.

Have you ever heard the term "identity theft". It's not about "hiding" it's about protecting yourself, your information. You have WAY too much information online about yourself. Anyway, I was really only trying to give you a friendly advice. If you don't want to take it, that's your choice.

"Too bad you didn't abduct them! You would have been lousy at hiding..."


If you were referring to this part of my post, I was JOKING! Which I can understand if you don't find that funny.

Of course NOW if you wanted to hide you may have help from experts in hiding...

http://www.pact-online.org/html/effect_on_the_child.html

Click on "a fully alienated child"

Good read.

Oh my God...you talk about the underground railroad getting their facts straight, and yet you go on and on without having YOUR facts straight!

Excuse me, Dipahead, but are you sure you have YOUR facts straight?

I don't attempt to hide my identy. And if I were attempting to, you'd never know it. You don't know if I'm Bobby or Kristi.......this is the internet, I could be anyone. I am a relative, and there are facts here that you people know nothing about (obviously). I won't expand on them, because to do so would involve innocent people, which I will not do. Are all of you people saying that if you knew a child was being molested, and the courts were going to do nothing about it, that you would stand back and let it happen??

The courts did nothing about it? I thought they gave Sandra and Marvin interim custody of Bobby and Kristi while the molesting allegations were being investigated. Judge Corlew defended this decision on Unsolved Mysteries by saying it was to protect the children, or words to that effect.

Correct.

However, the constitutional rights of the Baskins to their children were violated. Even if temporary custody was to be granted, the Maples should not have been able to walk into a judge's chambers and get the custody WITHOUT the Baskins being present.

Fire away, Dipahead.

<<Linnea says in her story that she really has no real recollection of what events led up to her mother taking them on the run. "My story has always been a regurgitation of what others have told me. First, what others have ordered me to say, and later, my own patchwork of all the versions I have collected."

>>

I thought Linnea's story was particularly relavant because she was 8 at the time of her abduction, just like Katharine Baskin. So her talking about what she remembered as her own recollections is very interesting. She basically couldn't remember what had really happened (if anything) vs. what she was told by other people.

So as an adult she questioned what really had gone on. I bet deep inside Robert and Katharine would like to do this too. Except they are still hostage to the fact that at least one of their grandparents are still alive and could go to jail if they contact anyone.

Correct.

However, the constitutional rights of the Baskins to their children were violated. Even if temporary custody was to be granted, the Maples should not have been able to walk into a judge's chambers and get the custody WITHOUT the Baskins being present.

Fire away, Dipahead.

EXACTLY, or at least without and attorney for the Baskins being present.

How would you like someone to be able to go into court to declare you legally incompetent and you are not present and no attorney is there to represent you. Well, you wouldn't. That's not how things are supposed to be done the USA. Of course they were in Tennessee and the "good ol' boy" network could have been hard at work.

EXACTLY, or at least without and attorney for the Baskins being present.

How would you like someone to be able to go into court to declare you legally incompetent and you are not present and no attorney is there to represent you. Well, you wouldn't. That's not how things are supposed to be done the USA. Of course they were in Tennessee and the "good ol' boy" network could have been hard at work.

And also, you have children. How about when you were going through your divorce, your husband claimed you had molested them. Then somehow found a judge to do this to you? Then took off. Could have happened. Unfortunately child abuse is falsely claimed way too many times during custody battles.

I'm sure if the Baskins had been able to choose between not seeing their children for 17+ years and having weekly visits, they would have chosen the weekly visits. Of course they weren't given that choice, and couldn't have known that that ultimately was the choice.

What a ludicrous statement! I sure as heck wouldn't risk my freedom by KIDNAPPING any children and spending the rest of my life on the run. Kidnapping is punishable by up to life in prison. There would be so many other ways to fight this if any molestation TRULY happened....WITHOUT breaking the law.

You ask us how we can give an honest opinion about the molestation charges because WE WEREN'T THERE. Well, guess what? YOU WEREN'T THERE either. And here's the big one - the Maples WEREN'T THERE as well.

The police officer in charge of the investigation even said it was blatantly obvious that the Maples were coaching the children to lie - the stories they were coming up with were too fantastical and they got worse and more crazy. This was at the time while the Maples had full custody of the children.

There is NO defending these horrible people, they are criminals. Next thing you know, we'll have people coming here to defend Osama Bin Laden. Ugh.

Does anyone remember the Elisabeth Morgan case? Elisabeth put her daughter Hilary in hiding and served time in prison for contempt of court when she refused to reveal Hilary's whereabouts. Why? Elisabeth believed that her husband was molesting Hilary. I am not clear as to whether these particular charges were proved or disproved and I am reserving judgements (something I have learned to do with high-profile cases). Matters came to a head when it was revealed that Hilary was hidden in my own country, New Zealand. So the final court battle was fought on NZ soil with, if I remember correctly, custody being awarded to Elisabeth.

Correct.

However, the constitutional rights of the Baskins to their children were violated. Even if temporary custody was to be granted, the Maples should not have been able to walk into a judge's chambers and get the custody WITHOUT the Baskins being present.

Fire away, Dipahead.

Has anyone taken Judge Corlew to task for violating the constitutional rights of the Baskins in this manner? The Baskins may have decided not to sue Corlew but was anything ever done to reprimand this judge? If the laws of Tennessee enabled him to give interim custody of the children to the Maples without the parents or representation present, was anything ever done to have the law changed, maybe citing this case as an example? Stripping a parent of their custodial rights behind their backs, without notifying them, allowing them representation or scheduling his appointment so he could hear both sides before deciding? Something needs to be done here in regard to Corlew and/or the state law.

Dipahead is quite right about hearing both sides - but that applies to both sides of the argument. Judge Corlew is living proof of her point; he (temporarily) stripped the Baskins of their custodial rights after hearing only one side of the argument. He later justified it that he was doing it for the children's safety, "just in case" sort of thing.

Okay... So you say that you're a relative of Kristy and Bobby... can you tell us how you're related to them?

Also aren't Kristy and Bobby old enough to want know where their parents are? I mean it's been a long time since they've seen them. And even if they don't want anything to do with their parents, why would anyone want to keep them from their brother Michael? He didn't do anything to them. He has a right to see his brother and sister. So even if they wish to not speak to their parents again, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't want to see their baby brother again.

What's you take on this Dipahead?

Hi,

Iam A Frequent User Of Sitcomsonline, But Sometimes I Dont Post.i Just Wanted To Say That I Have Found A Myspace.com Page For A Robert Baskin, Age 25 Years Old, From Virginia. I Had Sent Him A Friends Request But He Hasnt Responded Yet. He Has Pics Of Him On It And It Kinda Resembles Him. Just Thought You Should Know And I Also Pray For There Safe Return.

Hi,

Iam A Frequent User Of Sitcomsonline, But Sometimes I Dont Post.i Just Wanted To Say That I Have Found A Myspace.com Page For A Robert Baskin, Age 25 Years Old, From Virginia. I Had Sent Him A Friends Request But He Hasnt Responded Yet. He Has Pics Of Him On It And It Kinda Resembles Him. Just Thought You Should Know And I Also Pray For There Safe Return.


Hmmmm I don't know. I've done the same thing as you before... searching for the kids on MySpace. Kind of looks like him but it gives his birthday as April 4th.

Okay... So you say that you're a relative of Kristy and Bobby... can you tell us how you're related to them?

Also aren't Kristy and Bobby old enough to want know where their parents are? I mean it's been a long time since they've seen them. And even if they don't want anything to do with their parents, why would anyone want to keep them from their brother Michael? He didn't do anything to them. He has a right to see his brother and sister. So even if they wish to not speak to their parents again, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't want to see their baby brother again.

What's you take on this Dipahead?

For that matter, Ms Dipahead, what's your take on Michael, period? Aren't you concerned that the Baskins may have been molesting him as well?

Also aren't Kristy and Bobby old enough to want know where their parents are? I mean it's been a long time since they've seen them.

I hate to sound repetative (and if it bugs anyone, feel free to curse me or stick your toungue out at your computer screens :p ) but my feeling has always been that the Maples told Kristy and Bobby LONG ago that their parents - and most likely their brother Michael - died. I think this goes well beyond Debbie's Baskin's fears of her parents telling the children that their mother was a monster. Think about it - no matter what feelings you might have with your parents, no matter how ugly it got, those ties can simply not be broken. The Maples KNOW that. But if they tell Kristy and Bobby that their parents and brother died in a tragic car accident or something of that nature, then they'll never have the urge to go look for them, thus keeping the Maples safe and out of jail of course.

Last year, I was reading an article on the internet of a woman whose world was turned upside-down when she learned that she was kidnapped as a child. When she was 8 years old, her father picked her up from school and took her into hiding. Her mother looked all over for her but was never able to find her after years and years of searching. Shortly after she was kidnapped, her father TOLD her that her mommy had died. She spent the rest of her childhood believing that all the way up to her late 20's when her father was arrested for an unrelated crime. At that point, she was devasted to find out the truth when it eventually spilled out - that her name and most of her life was a LIE. Her mother never died and she was extremely nervous about seeing her again.

I can see this being the same case with Kristy and Bobby. They're out there somewhere in the world living their lives with NO CLUE about their parents - the people they really are or if they are indeed alive. And worst of all, they probably don't know that their grandparents are a couple of psycho nutcases who destroyed their own family to KIDNAP them. The Maples have filled their heads with so many lies already, I would be shocked if they didn't take it to the next level and say, "kids, you're parents are dead."

Wowww.... I missed that post of yours, Dynoguy. That's an interesting point. How awful that would be.

my feeling has always been that the Maples told Kristy and Bobby LONG ago that their parents - and most likely their brother Michael - died. I think this goes well beyond Debbie's Baskin's fears of her parents telling the children that their mother was a monster. Think about it - no matter what feelings you might have with your parents, no matter how ugly it got, those ties can simply not be broken. The Maples KNOW that. But if they tell Kristy and Bobby that their parents and brother died in a tragic car accident or something of that nature, then they'll never have the urge to go look for them, thus keeping the Maples safe and out of jail of course.

I can see this being the same case with Kristy and Bobby. They're out there somewhere in the world living their lives with NO CLUE about their parents - the people they really are or if they are indeed alive. And worst of all, they probably don't know that their grandparents are a couple of psycho nutcases who destroyed their own family to KIDNAP them. The Maples have filled their heads with so many lies already, I would be shocked if they didn't take it to the next level and say, "kids, you're parents are dead."

Yes, I agree with you. Robert and Katharine may not even know to look for their parents and brother. They may not remember their real names.

I saw a young lady in her 20's that was interviewed after Sean Hornbeck was found. She was taken by a stranger when she was age 9-11 (sorry, can't remember exactly). She said that after 2 weeks or less she couldn't remember her real name. Of course, I must add, that this was after sexual abuse by this man, etc... Still, the trauma of it all, and him calling her a different name was able to make her forget her real name in a very short time. She was luckily found after about 6 weeks. So you can see that at ages 7 & 8 being taken, and given probably several different names, being moved around, possibly being told your parents had died, you might not even know who you really were by the time you grew-up. May not remember you had a different life at one time. And you might have been led to believe that your parents were dead, so no one to look for.

Yes, I agree with you. Robert and Katharine may not even know to look for their parents and brother. They may not remember their real names.

I saw a young lady in her 20's that was interviewed after Sean Hornbeck was found. She was taken by a stranger when she was age 9-11 (sorry, can't remember exactly). She said that after 2 weeks or less she couldn't remember her real name. Of course, I must add, that this was after sexual abuse by this man, etc... Still, the trauma of it all, and him calling her a different name was able to make her forget her real name in a very short time. She was luckily found after about 6 weeks. So you can see that at ages 7 & 8 being taken, and given probably several different names, being moved around, possibly being told your parents had died, you might not even know who you really were by the time you grew-up. May not remember you had a different life at one time. And you might have been led to believe that your parents were dead, so no one to look for.

Bobby and Katherine would now be into there mid 20's, surely as an adult one or both of them would of woken up one day and thought "I wonder if Grandma told me the truth?!?!?"

Bobby and Katherine would now be into there mid 20's, surely as an adult one or both of them would of woken up one day and thought "I wonder if Grandma told me the truth?!?!?"

You'd hope so. Unfortunately with a situation like this one, it's hard to say...:(

The Maples side of the story is really irrelevant

Man I got nailed on that statement it appears.

What I was really getting at was that there is no way that the Maples can justify their crimes. I think perhaps that the Maples have not only convinced the Baskins children, but also themslves that they have done no wrong, but a crime is still a crime and they're not going to be able to talk themselves out of it.

Has anyone taken Judge Corlew to task for violating the constitutional rights of the Baskins in this manner?

Not that I know of, unfortunately. He might have even gotten promoted. He is know a chancellor in TN, but I have no idea what that means, and wikipedia wasn't much help. Perhaps someone might know what a chancellor is, it appears to have many different meanings in many different countries.

I hate to sound repetative (and if it bugs anyone, feel free to curse me or stick your toungue out at your computer screens :p ) but my feeling has always been that the Maples told Kristy and Bobby LONG ago that their parents - and most likely their brother Michael - died. I think this goes well beyond Debbie's Baskin's fears of her parents telling the children that their mother was a monster. Think about it - no matter what feelings you might have with your parents, no matter how ugly it got, those ties can simply not be broken. The Maples KNOW that. But if they tell Kristy and Bobby that their parents and brother died in a tragic car accident or something of that nature, then they'll never have the urge to go look for them, thus keeping the Maples safe and out of jail of course.

Last year, I was reading an article on the internet of a woman whose world was turned upside-down when she learned that she was kidnapped as a child. When she was 8 years old, her father picked her up from school and took her into hiding. Her mother looked all over for her but was never able to find her after years and years of searching. Shortly after she was kidnapped, her father TOLD her that her mommy had died. She spent the rest of her childhood believing that all the way up to her late 20's when her father was arrested for an unrelated crime. At that point, she was devasted to find out the truth when it eventually spilled out - that her name and most of her life was a LIE. Her mother never died and she was extremely nervous about seeing her again.

I can see this being the same case with Kristy and Bobby. They're out there somewhere in the world living their lives with NO CLUE about their parents - the people they really are or if they are indeed alive. And worst of all, they probably don't know that their grandparents are a couple of psycho nutcases who destroyed their own family to KIDNAP them. The Maples have filled their heads with so many lies already, I would be shocked if they didn't take it to the next level and say, "kids, you're parents are dead."

That's possible, although I wonder if the kids found it odd that they moved all those times right after their parents "death.", and did the Maples tell them that Michael died too? Interestingly, the pictures of the Baskin children in California appear to depict them as having a good time, so perhaps they weren't aware of all of the ugliness surrounding this case.

That's possible, although I wonder if the kids found it odd that they moved all those times right after their parents "death.", and did the Maples tell them that Michael died too? Interestingly, the pictures of the Baskin children in California appear to depict them as having a good time, so perhaps they weren't aware of all of the ugliness surrounding this case.


Okay so assume they were told that their parents and Michael died... wouldn't they as adults want to go to their gravesites and talk to them??

Unless of course they were told that they were all cremated and their ashes were strewn over some place...

Man I got nailed on that statement it appears.

What I was really getting at was that there is no way that the Maples can justify their crimes. I think perhaps that the Maples have not only convinced the Baskins children, but also themslves that they have done no wrong, but a crime is still a crime and they're not going to be able to talk themselves out of it.

Oh, you're probably right about that. Or "the end justifies the means" sort of thing. I'm sure their convinced, that it was all done to "save" the children, so it was o.k.

Maybe the family IS doing something that we're all just not aware of yet. I hope so.



I'm sure they are, but have no desire to turn it all into a media circus.

**This post was being edited at the same time a reply was being made. Original post is quoted in reply. I explained below.**

Just so you all know...Mark and Debbie have NEVER given up on finding their children. The investigation has continued over the years and they have been actively involved. They choose not to turn it into a media circus.

That's good to know...

I guess the day I posted that I was all wired up that there has been no resolution for this family. Obviously, they have to do what they are comfortable with.

Ok...without doing any harm to other family members:

1) Marvin is my Uncle. My mother is his sister.

That being said:

2) Debbie was never accused of molesting her children. Mark and his FATHER were accused by Bobby and Kristi.

3) Marvin and Sandra Maple were Bobby and Kristi's legal guardians, in case of a medical emergency while in Marvin and Sandra's care, before any accusations were ever made, since Mark and Debbie were to be living in another state with Michael.

4) Mark's father (the other accused) was a very influential man, one of the "good ole boys", to quote crochetbuff, within Murfreesboro.

5) NONE of Marvin's side of the family has ANY idea where they are; they have not been heard from...and EVERY immediate family member was interviewed by the FBI immediately following their disappearance.

6) One of the Maples 3 daughters was still living at home when all of this went down. She had no idea that she would come home from school one day to find her parents and niece and nephew gone, and have no idea that she would very possibly never see them again.

7) Every one of Marvin's siblings contacted Unsolved Mysteries so that the facts as they knew them could be heard...Unsolved Mysteries refused to talk to any of them, telling them that "we already have our story".

8) The house shown in Unsolved Mysteries, the one with the "for sale" sign in front of it, was not the Maple home.

9) Many months before Kristi and Bobby moved in and before any of the accusations were made, Sandra had written several letters to Marvin's mother (my grandmother) saying that they had already raised their children and really didn't want to take care of Bobby and Kristi...but they were doing it because Debbie and Mark needed their help.

Now...I HOPE that the person who found Robert Baskin on MySpace, and requested him as a friend, does NOT have any intention of questioning him, or telling him things. If it truly is him, let the legal system do what they need do do (assuming they can get at least one part of this right); he doesn't need to hear half baked stories from people who know nothing other than what they've heard from the twisted media. If it is him, I'm sure that Mark and Debbie will find out soon enough.

I hope this satisfies all of you, because I have nothing else to add.

That's good to know...

I guess the day I posted that I was all wired up that there has been no resolution for this family. Obviously, they have to do what they are comfortable with.

Sorry...I must have been editing while you were replying. I edited because after reading over my reply it sounded a little harsh...didn't mean for it to.

No worries...I get wired up over the case myself.

Ok...without doing any harm to other family members:

1) Marvin is my Uncle. My mother is his sister.

That being said:

2) Debbie was never accused of molesting her children. Mark and his FATHER were accused by Bobby and Kristi.

3) Marvin and Sandra Maple were Bobby and Kristi's legal guardians, in case of a medical emergency while in Marvin and Sandra's care, before any accusations were ever made, since Mark and Debbie were to be living in another state with Michael.

4) Mark's father (the other accused) was a very influential man, one of the "good ole boys", to quote crochetbuff, within Murfreesboro.

5) NONE of Marvin's side of the family has ANY idea where they are; they have not been heard from...and EVERY immediate family member was interviewed by the FBI immediately following their disappearance.

6) One of the Maples 3 daughters was still living at home when all of this went down. She had no idea that she would come home from school one day to find her parents and niece and nephew gone, and have no idea that she would very possibly never see them again.

7) Every one of Marvin's siblings contacted Unsolved Mysteries so that the facts as they knew them could be heard...Unsolved Mysteries refused to talk to any of them, telling them that "we already have our story".

8) The house shown in Unsolved Mysteries, the one with the "for sale" sign in front of it, was not the Maple home.

9) Many months before Kristi and Bobby moved in and before any of the accusations were made, Sandra had written several letters to Marvin's mother (my grandmother) saying that they had already raised their children and really didn't want to take care of Bobby and Kristi...but they were doing it because Debbie and Mark needed their help.

Now...I HOPE that the person who found Robert Baskin on MySpace, and requested him as a friend, does NOT have any intention of questioning him, or telling him things. If it truly is him, let the legal system do what they need do do (assuming they can get at least one part of this right); he doesn't need to hear half baked stories from people who know nothing other than what they've heard from the twisted media. If it is him, I'm sure that Mark and Debbie will find out soon enough.

I hope this satisfies all of you, because I have nothing else to add.

Dipahead,

Thanks for sharing what you know about the case.

How sad for the one daughter to come home and find everyone gone.

I'm fairly sure whatever myspace someone found under "Robert Baskin" is probably not him. They have obviously hidden well over these 17 years and it's doubtful they are using any forms of their real names.

I guess most of us here, just hope that wherever Robert and Katharine are, that they are doing well, and that someday soon, they will seek out Debbie or Mark or their brother to bring some sort of resolution to this ordeal.

Whatever the "real truth" is in this case, it is sad.

HI,

IAM THE PERSON THAT WROTE SAYING THAT I FOUND A MYSPACE.COM PERSON BY THE NAME OF ROBERT BASKIN. I, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, IS JUST HOPING AND PRAYING FOR THERE RETURN AND JUST TYPING IN THERE NAMES JUST TO SEE IF THEY HAVE ONE. I HAVE GOTTEN NO REPLIES AND IF I DID, WOULD JUST DECLINE ANYWAYS, SINCE LIKE YOU SAID, EVERYONE HERE HAS HALF BAKED STORIES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. AND ALSO, IM PRETTY SURE THAT THEY HAVE CHANGED THERE NAMES AS WELL.

IM JUST HOPING THAT ONE DAY THEY WILL BE FOUND AND I HOPE I DIDNT OFFEND ANYONE WITH WHAT I WROTE.

HI,

IAM THE PERSON THAT WROTE SAYING THAT I FOUND A MYSPACE.COM PERSON BY THE NAME OF ROBERT BASKIN. I, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, IS JUST HOPING AND PRAYING FOR THERE RETURN AND JUST TYPING IN THERE NAMES JUST TO SEE IF THEY HAVE ONE. I HAVE GOTTEN NO REPLIES AND IF I DID, WOULD JUST DECLINE ANYWAYS, SINCE LIKE YOU SAID, EVERYONE HERE HAS HALF BAKED STORIES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. AND ALSO, IM PRETTY SURE THAT THEY HAVE CHANGED THERE NAMES AS WELL.

IM JUST HOPING THAT ONE DAY THEY WILL BE FOUND AND I HOPE I DIDNT OFFEND ANYONE WITH WHAT I WROTE.

Ok...without doing any harm to other family members:

1) Marvin is my Uncle. My mother is his sister.

That being said:

2) Debbie was never accused of molesting her children. Mark and his FATHER were accused by Bobby and Kristi.

3) Marvin and Sandra Maple were Bobby and Kristi's legal guardians, in case of a medical emergency while in Marvin and Sandra's care, before any accusations were ever made, since Mark and Debbie were to be living in another state with Michael.

4) Mark's father (the other accused) was a very influential man, one of the "good ole boys", to quote crochetbuff, within Murfreesboro.

5) NONE of Marvin's side of the family has ANY idea where they are; they have not been heard from...and EVERY immediate family member was interviewed by the FBI immediately following their disappearance.

6) One of the Maples 3 daughters was still living at home when all of this went down. She had no idea that she would come home from school one day to find her parents and niece and nephew gone, and have no idea that she would very possibly never see them again.

7) Every one of Marvin's siblings contacted Unsolved Mysteries so that the facts as they knew them could be heard...Unsolved Mysteries refused to talk to any of them, telling them that "we already have our story".

8) The house shown in Unsolved Mysteries, the one with the "for sale" sign in front of it, was not the Maple home.

9) Many months before Kristi and Bobby moved in and before any of the accusations were made, Sandra had written several letters to Marvin's mother (my grandmother) saying that they had already raised their children and really didn't want to take care of Bobby and Kristi...but they were doing it because Debbie and Mark needed their help.

Now...I HOPE that the person who found Robert Baskin on MySpace, and requested him as a friend, does NOT have any intention of questioning him, or telling him things. If it truly is him, let the legal system do what they need do do (assuming they can get at least one part of this right); he doesn't need to hear half baked stories from people who know nothing other than what they've heard from the twisted media. If it is him, I'm sure that Mark and Debbie will find out soon enough.

I hope this satisfies all of you, because I have nothing else to add.

Mark and his father were accused of the child molesting, not Debbie? That is a surprise. But one thing does puzzle me; Debbie was not accused, yet the judge stripped her of her parental rights along with Mark? Was someone accusing Debbie of aiding and abetting?

I am glad that none of you on Marvin's side know where they are, otherwise that would have made you guilty of a crime. My own feeling was that you didn't; the fewer people who know, the better - for Sandra and Marvin, anyway.

Debbie was never accused of molesting her children. Mark and his FATHER were accused by Bobby and Kristi.

Interesting. In the segment, Debbie said Marvin called her up and said, "We know that YOU and Mark have molested the kids," causing her to drop the phone and run to the bathroom because she became sick to her stomach. The alleged molestation of Bobby that the Maples claimed - took place in a hotel room during one of the visits with their parents. If Bobby and Kristi "claimed" that molestation DID take place, I wonder where Debbie and Michael would have been at the time.

NONE of Marvin's side of the family has ANY idea where they are; they have not been heard from...and EVERY immediate family member was interviewed by the FBI immediately following their disappearance.

I find that hard to believe that not even one SINGLE family member knows where they are. But hey, I'm just an observer. I could be wrong. I am glad that they were ALL questioned by the FBI, though.

One of the Maples 3 daughters was still living at home when all of this went down. She had no idea that she would come home from school one day to find her parents and niece and nephew gone, and have no idea that she would very possibly never see them again.

I'm sorry but the disgust I had for the Maples was only multiplied after reading that statement - and it was already pretty bad in the first place. The abandonment of your own family is one of the cruelest things a person can do. And to not even tell them why. I wonder if they even left a note for that daughter telling her how much they loved her but this was something we had to do...yadda, yadda, yadda. Man, I would be so angry and hurt if I were in her position. It wouldn't make a difference even if the Baskins HAD in fact molested the kids. I would NEVER forgive my parents if they had pulled something like that. There could have been other ways to deal with it WITHOUT having to lose them in my life.

Every one of Marvin's siblings contacted Unsolved Mysteries so that the facts as they knew them could be heard...Unsolved Mysteries refused to talk to any of them, telling them that "we already have our story".

Well, I think the show got the main points accross that they wanted to regardless of what side you are on....

1. The Maples took care of Kristi and Bobby while Debbie and Mark went to Louisville with Michael to help for finance reasons while they looked for jobs.

2. When the Baskins wanted to take the children, the Maples got upset. The family members relationship crumbled.

3. The Maples went to a judges chamber and accused the Baskins of molestation and being members of a satanic cult.

4. Temporary full custody was given to the Maples while the charges were investigated.

5. Police interviewed both Bobby and Kristi and found NO evidence that the children were being abused - this came out of the mouth of the officer in charge of the investation herself, not the Baskins.

6. The Maples fled with the children just weeks before they were to be returned to their parents.

Those are all facts regardless of what truly happened. I really wish the segment had told us more info on WHY the Maples were so upset when the Baskins wanted to take the children home and also WHY and HOW the relationship crumbled to the point where they couldn't even be in the same house together while the visits happened. Because this all took place months before the alleged mollestation took place. Is there anything you would like to share with us on your families behalf? I'm curious what they wanted to share with Unsolved Mysteries that could shed any decent light on Marvin and Sandra.

Mark's father (the other accused) was a very influential man, one of the "good ole boys", to quote crochetbuff, within Murfreesboro.

Are you hinting at the fact that he normally got away with shady stuff because of his position? Because you can be an influential person without doing criminal activities or abusing your power. I'm not saying people don't take advantage of that kind power and use it but do you know of any times where he might have done that?

The house shown in Unsolved Mysteries, the one with the "for sale" sign in front of it, was not the Maple home.

That's actually kind of interesting because the producers of the show, more often than not, liked to go to the actual "scene of the crime" when they do their recreations. But I guess in this case, they probably decided it wasn't that important of a detail.

Many months before Kristi and Bobby moved in and before any of the accusations were made, Sandra had written several letters to Marvin's mother (my grandmother) saying that they had already raised their children and really didn't want to take care of Bobby and Kristi...but they were doing it because Debbie and Mark needed their help.

Yes, that was expressed pretty well in the segment. Although the mention of NOT wanting to take care of them is interesting. I'd sure like to know what TRULY happened and all the details that led them to do the complete opposite.

Now...I HOPE that the person who found Robert Baskin on MySpace, and requested him as a friend, does NOT have any intention of questioning him, or telling him things. If it truly is him, let the legal system do what they need do do (assuming they can get at least one part of this right); he doesn't need to hear half baked stories from people who know nothing other than what they've heard from the twisted media. If it is him, I'm sure that Mark and Debbie will find out soon enough.

I would be SHOCKED if that guy actually ended up being the Robert Baskin of of your family. Surely he must have a different name these days. Mere months after the Maples took the children, he was already going by the name Robbie Farmer. Lord only knows what other names he was given over the years.

I hope this satisfies all of you, because I have nothing else to add.

Actually, there's a TON more you could add but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't want to. I'm going to go out on a limb here and take a guess that your family members (the family members of Marvin) believe that the molestations did in fact happen and that the Maples kidnapped the children for their own good. How did your family respond to that? Were any of you angry or hurt that they would just cut you out of their lives like that or are you proud that they're doing what THEY believe is best? And finally, what are your opinions of Mark and Debbie? Do you believe in your own heart that they deserved what happened to them or do you believe the justice system failed them?

I'm sorry to ask so many questions but you have given us a ton of popcorn but left us with no butter.

Interesting. In the segment, Debbie said Marvin called her up and said, "We know that YOU and Mark have molested the kids," causing her to drop the phone and run to the bathroom because she became sick to her stomach. The alleged molestation of Bobby that the Maples claimed - took place in a hotel room during one of the visits with their parents. If Bobby and Kristi "claimed" that molestation DID take place, I wonder where Debbie and Michael would have been at the time.

I find that hard to believe that not even one SINGLE family member knows where they are. But hey, I'm just an observer. I could be wrong. I am glad that they were ALL questioned by the FBI, though.



I'm sorry but the disgust I had for the Maples was only multiplied after reading that statement - and it was already pretty bad in the first place. The abandonment of your own family is one of the cruelest things a person can do. And to not even tell them why. I wonder if they even left a note for that daughter telling her how much they loved her but this was something we had to do...yadda, yadda, yadda. Man, I would be so angry and hurt if I were in her position. It wouldn't make a difference even if the Baskins HAD in fact molested the kids. I would NEVER forgive my parents if they had pulled something like that. There could have been other ways to deal with it WITHOUT having to lose them in my life.



Well, I think the show got the main points accross that they wanted to regardless of what side you are on....

1. The Maples took care of Kristi and Bobby while Debbie and Mark went to Louisville with Michael to help for finance reasons while they looked for jobs.

2. When the Baskins wanted to take the children, the Maples got upset. The family members relationship crumbled.

3. The Maples went to a judges chamber and accused the Baskins of molestation and being members of a satanic cult.

4. Temporary full custody was given to the Maples while the charges were investigated.

5. Police interviewed both Bobby and Kristi and found NO evidence that the children were being abused - this came out of the mouth of the officer in charge of the investation herself, not the Baskins.

6. The Maples fled with the children just weeks before they were to be returned to their parents.

Those are all facts regardless of what truly happened. I really wish the segment had told us more info on WHY the Maples were so upset when the Baskins wanted to take the children home and also WHY and HOW the relationship crumbled to the point where they couldn't even be in the same house together while the visits happened. Because this all took place months before the alleged mollestation took place. Is there anything you would like to share with us on your families behalf? I'm curious what they wanted to share with Unsolved Mysteries that could shed any decent light on Marvin and Sandra.



Are you hinting at the fact that he normally got away with shady stuff because of his position? Because you can be an influential without doing criminal activities. I'm not saying people don't take advantage of that kind power and abuse it but do you know of any times where he might have done that?



That's actually kind of interesting because the producers of the show, more often than not, liked to go to the actual "scene of the crime" when they do their recreations. But I guess in this case, they probably decided it wasn't that important of a detail.



Yes, that was expressed pretty well in the segment. Although the mention of NOT wanting to take care of them is interesting. I'd sure like to know what TRULY happened and all the details that led them to do the complete opposite.



I would be SHOCKED if that guy actually ended up being the Robert Baskin of of your family. Surely he must have a different name these days. Mere months after the Maples took the children, he was already going by the name Robbie Farmer. Lord only knows what other names he was given over the years.



Actually, there's a TON more you could add but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't want to. I'm going to go out on a limb here and take a guess that your family members (the family members of Marvin) believe that the molestations did in fact happen and that the Maples kidnapped the children for their own good. How did your family respond to that? Were any of you angry or hurt that they would just cut you out of their lives like that or are you proud that they're doing what THEY believe is best? And finally, what are your opinions of Mark and Debbie? Do you believe in your own heart that they deserved what happened to them or do you believe the justice system failed them?

I'm sorry to ask so many questions but you have given us a ton of popcorn but left us with no butter.

So the molesting was alleged to have taken place in a hotel room on ONE occasion? In the newspaper article (cited elsewhere on this blog) Karen Hornsby said that the things the children told her were not believable and every time she spoke to them it "got worse and worse." How could all this have taken place in a hotel room on ONE occasion?

You can continue to believe the "segment", your choice. Because of course it's the gospel truth! *smiles*

So the molesting was alleged to have taken place in a hotel room on ONE occasion? In the newspaper article (cited elsewhere on this blog) Karen Hornsby said that the things the children told her were not believable and every time she spoke to them it "got worse and worse." How could all this have taken place in a hotel room on ONE occasion?

On the Unsolved Mysteries segment, Debbie and Mark said they picked up the children from the Maples on April 10, 1988 - pictures of that day were shown of them playing in the park having a great time. Later that day, they must have gone to the Baskins motel room before dropping them off back at the Maples house.

When the Maples went into the Judge's chamber to try and get control of the children, they told the judge that the Mark and Debbie had molested Bobby in the motel room the day of the April 10th visit. (Where Kristi and Michael would have been at the time is anyone's guess.) It wasn't until the investigation into the charges was conducted and BOTH the Maples and Baskins were under psychological evaluations that the children told Karen Horsby about the fantasical stories that weren't believable.

Interestingly, it wasn't until a full month after the April 10th visit that the Maples went to Judge Corlew with the accusations against the Baskins - this is just me, but if all that horrible stuff really happened, why would they wait a whole month to complain about it?

You can continue to believe the "segment", your choice. Because of course it's the gospel truth! *smiles*

Hey, I would welcome ANYONE that could give me the other side of the story if there is indeed another side. But the facts you have given me are too vague. You didn't go into much detail. All you pretty much said is we don't know the whole story so we can't judge the Maples and a few minor details on the alleged charges.

I told you what I know, period. The only reason I even said anything at all is because my mom found this link and was pretty upset by everyone bashing her brother and his wife. She knows her brother as well as anyone and knows damn well he'd never take those kids unless he felt he had no other choice. And no, he was not PW'd, as had been suggested elsewhere in all of this BS. I would love to have more information, but I don't. And to get it would be to upset my cousins by bringing up a subject that they've done their best to get past, and considering what they've been through I refuse to do that. Do I have sympathy for Mark and Debbie? Based on what I know, no I don't. Those kids would have gone back to more abuse if it was all true. So you can take the info that I gave you and believe what you will, as I said, it's your choice.

I just wanted to add:
So many people have said that they find this odd, or that they find that odd...but what I find odd is this...Debbie comes from a fairly large family and not a single member supported her...yes...definitely odd. Really makes you stop and wonder...doesn't it?

"One of the Maples 3 daughters was still living at home when all of this went down. She had no idea that she would come home from school one day to find her parents and niece and nephew gone, and have no idea that she would very possibly never see them again."

Well, well, well! The Maples accused the Baskins of abandoning the children as well as molesting them - and here they are, abandoning their own daughter! Granted, the daughter might have been old enough to be left on her own, but that is not the point.

I just wanted to add:
So many people have said that they find this odd, or that they find that odd...but what I find odd is this...Debbie comes from a fairly large family and not a single member supported her...yes...definitely odd. Really makes you stop and wonder...doesn't it?

I have a question about not a single member supporting Debbie: was this at the time the trouble occurred or do these family members still not support Debbie?

You must have seen the obit for her maternal grandmother that someone copied and pasted to this bulletin board.....she was not listed...that fact was commented on by a few different people...and that was just.....what.....3 months ago? I think that kinda says it all, don't you? When did the Maples accuse Debbie of abandoning her children.......ohhhh, you must be quoting the "segment" again......good old segment!!

And yes, the daughter left at home was an adult...they did not abandon a child...school being college, sorry to mislead.

No offense here. I appreciate your interest.

I just wanted to add:
So many people have said that they find this odd, or that they find that odd...but what I find odd is this...Debbie comes from a fairly large family and not a single member supported her...yes...definitely odd. Really makes you stop and wonder...doesn't it?

Yes, I have found this bit odd too. I'm not sure if it has to do with her family actually believing the allegation of abuse. I have a feeling it has more to do with being angry about the situation and seeing it as forcing Sandra to leave her family (so siding with Sandra that Debbie and Mark should have just let them keep the children, then Sandra and Marvin wouldn't have left). Also the possiblity that in all the mess, Debbie's sisters and such were put under suspicion of having helped Marvin and Sandra disappear (as were your relatives). Thus creating bad feelings.

Then again, just my take on it.

You can continue to believe the "segment", your choice. Because of course it's the gospel truth! *smiles*


As with most things, the truth probably falls somewhere in between the two accounts/stories.

You must have seen the obit for her maternal grandmother that someone copied and pasted to this bulletin board.....she was not listed...that fact was commented on by a few different people...and that was just.....what.....3 months ago? I think that kinda says it all, don't you? When did the Maples accuse Debbie of abandoning her children.......ohhhh, you must be quoting the "segment" again......good old segment!!

And yes, the daughter left at home was an adult...they did not abandon a child...school being college, sorry to mislead.

I can't blame you for being defensive about us believing the "segment". After all, that's all there was out there. I hope that you can see that I am at least very appreciative that you have shared what you have with us. Otherwise, there's no way we could see that there is a lot of other info. out there. Whether we completely change our minds or not, it is helpful to get a fuller picture.

Wherever the blame lies, there has been a lot of suffering caused by the whole mess, for all involved. If the kids were abused, they suffered from that, either way they suffered from being taken away, and all the family on both sides suffered from all the events.