i dont like it for a few reasons

it gives the same weight for a point, to a 1 disc trade as it does a 50 disc trade, or more my style, 125 disc trade

it also starts everyone at zero, i worked very hard to be far above zero--why would i want to have to start over---yes we all know whos pretty well known today-- how about next month a new person comes along and looks at the score thing, and decides i am a bum because i only have plus 4

and it allows scammers to rate them selves--a scammer trick now is to use a hotmail as a reference--just what they will do with this system

next, everytime i make a trade, i dont want it public knowledge whom i am tradeing with--some folks only have so much time, and i dont want the followers to jump on everyone i deal with-- i may have worked a long time to cultivate that lead , and now it tuns to public knowledge

loren

I believe this point system to be of great value in determining a good trader based on the number of successful trades completed, regardless of the number of discs traded. I'm not concerned with the number of discs in the trade, but only if the trade was completed in a timely manner. The system has served the members of CPS well, and I am glad you're adopting the same system here. Thanks.
Neuroslicer
www.geocities.com/neuroslicer

it also starts everyone at zero, i worked very hard to be far above zero--why would i want to have to start over---yes we all know whos pretty well known today-- how about next month a new person comes along and looks at the score thing, and decides i am a bum because i only have plus 4
CPS has a similar system, and what they do is allow for past trades to be accounted for. You'd be surprised how fast your points will add up if we're allowed to account for all trades, rather than only the ones completed after this system was implemented.

Also, maybe it'd be possible to count the trades already mentioned under "good trader posts", as 1 point for each trade mentioned (?). This is just an idea...

next, everytime i make a trade, i dont want it public knowledge whom i am tradeing with--some folks only have so much time, and i dont want the followers to jump on everyone i deal with-- i may have worked a long time to cultivate that lead , and now it tuns to public knowledgeYou could request your traders to not post publically (?).

and it allows scammers to rate them selves--a scammer trick now is to use a hotmail as a reference--just what they will do with this systemTJ can check ISPs if necessary. This is something that will need to be addressed somewhere along the way, I think. (Perhaps requiring traders posting feedback to have been members for a certain length of time?)

If it's at all like eBay or even CPS, another problem is that some people just will not take the time to give feedback, making things lopsided, but overall, I personally think this is a great step! :happyface

I think the point system is a great idea! I like the idea of new traders getting more exposure so everybody will have more people to trade with and it will help the newbies get more trades rather than being forced to buy dvds from established traders to build their lists.

I agree with "neuroslicer" - it doesn't matter how many discs are in a trade - only that the trade was completed as agreed. This is a hobby for me, not a business and I shouldn't be penalized because I don't trade 1000 discs each month. If I send what I'm supposed to send, when it is supposed to be sent - then I've successfully completed the trade.

I agree with "neuroslicer" - it doesn't matter how many discs are in a trade - only that the trade was completed as agreed. This is a hobby for me, not a business and I shouldn't be penalized because I don't trade 1000 discs each month. If I send what I'm supposed to send, when it is supposed to be sent - then I've successfully completed the trade.


but then why should i be penalized for makeing a 50 or more disc trade. with a point system that gives the same weight to a 5 disc trade as for a 50 or 100 disc trdae

my trade is 20 times as hard to get correct, because it 20 times as large, 20 times for chance of a problem

the fact that i can get a 50 or 100 disc trade to someone in a very prompt time, and have it correct, certainly deserves a lot more points tahn the 5 disc trades or even the one disc trade that involves one epiosde

of course i can see why people that make small trades woldl love the point syatem, since they get the same credit as i would for a huge one, with very little effort involved

I still think - 1 point for 1 trade is fair - regardless of number of dvds in the trade. Trading for 1 dvd or 100, is a personal choice and one has to decide if they are willing to put in the effort to ensure it occurs as agreed.

jen-- does have her usual good idea

the idea of giving credit for past trades to current members is completely fair and a good idea--if this point thing is the law

this way people who have built their repiutation over the long period will not be forced to start over at zero

i personaly can think of easily well over 100 transactions i have had with members of this site

and probably at least 10 people who i have had over 5 each

and 1 person at least a dozen transactions, and another one tonight

feedback mis- use

like ebay there will be the problem of payback negatives

lets say a person sends stuff anfd the second person just keeps it and doesnt return anything

the sender make s a negaive comment

well of cousre whats going to happen in about one minute

the thief will payback the sender with a negative of his own

so the honest sender gets jammed for absolutely no reason with a bad mark

this is going to be a problem--just like on ebay

peoeple have stopped giving negatives on ebay --just for this reason

so like ebay feedback, it will not tell an accurate story at all

if i send stuff and another persons steals it

i will be afraid to complain and issue the honest feedback for fear of a paybck


SO TELL ME, EXACTLY WHAT WILL THE FEEDBACK SYSTEM SOLVE

its the same as it is now

i had a serious problem with someone and told the story on this site, she blasted me right back and smeared my name in the mud

another eprson i dealt weith also made a huge mess of a trade and i didnt say a thing until soemone else complained about the same person, i knew they had at elast three problems with sitcom group members

but i was not going to step upo and tell the truth for fear of another run trough the mud, after there was two others already who posted, i told my story and named names . far too late to help some people, but i didnt want to risk another problem like last time

this feedback syatem will mor ethan likely be there same


and as far as people giving themselves feedback, it happens now as well, so that will remain the same too.
tehre is a post right now where this has happened on the front page of the site.

no moderator has the time to monitor every feedback and where it comes from. anyone could sign up at the public library and not be traceable.

i dont see the point thing as solveing any problems .

I don't like this system because I have been trading for a long time. How will it work for traders who have been around 3 years or more like me? I don't like to start at the bottom when I am getting out of trading or not doing as much.

With all due respect, Loren is misunderstanding the purpose of the point feedback system. Let's be clear here... the goal is to ascertain the likelihood that a trade will be completed. Nothing more. I think we all realize that there's a threshold score above which we can be pretty confident that a trader will come through with a trade. What is that threshold score? I don't know, it probably varies in direct proportion to one's degree of suspicion and paranoia... however, it's my opinion that a person with a score of +25 is equally likely to complete a trade as a person with a score of +75. The purpose of the point feedback system is not to rank the good traders one against the other. If your purpose is just to trade and have fun, then your score and feedback comments will reflect that, plus there will certainly be word of mouth about you amongst other traders which in my mind is equally important. No doubt the posts that we all submit on public and private forums also shapes other's opinions about us as traders. So IMHO, just have fun trading ... worrying about whether your score is a reflection of your complete trading profile is futile ... since that is not what the score is designed to reflect. And no, my trades are typically between 10 and 35 discs ... and I really don't care about what my point score is (I currently have several 37 disc trades that I'm gearing up for).
Neuroslicer
www.geocities.com/neuroslicer

regardles of the purpose of the system, i dont think it will solve anything, or make anything better

people will still give themselves fake good feedback

people will still have multiple usernames

people will still be afraid to tell the truth about a poor trader or experience

poor traders wil still be able to payback honest folks with bad points''

what of this list will be fixed by the point system ????

none that i can see

so why will it help

the same people who are in the good trader posts now, will be the ones with the feedback

newbies will have none, just as now

scammers info wiill be harder to get with the point system due to them padding their ratings by themselves

we still dont really know if a new user is honest and inexperienced on this site, or a scammer

just as it is now

so i honestly dont see any benifit


but if the point system goes into being, and past trades are allowed for points

ill give jay the 3 good reviews from our dealings and be the first to get it going

ill argue its not needed and doesnt solve anything, but if it is the law, i will play by the rules

Wow, let me try and address some issues brought about by this new system...:)

I believe that the one point per trade (regardless of how large the trade is) is fair, and unless there is further objection from multiple other people that will stay in place.

My final decision is that I'm going to allow people to give "reputation points" for previous trades (previous trades is defined as within the last two years). :) Sound fair?

Scammers are easily taken care of. I can see IP Addresses, and so can TJ. If you think something looks suspicious feel free to PM me, and I'll check on it for you. I've already had someone PM me, and the situation was taken care of.

I agree with Jen on the next point. If you don't want people to know who you're trading with then simply don't post anything, and ask the other person not to post anything. Realize that you're basically posting feedback points not the contents of a trade.

When it comes to abusing the system, that's a risk we're going to have to take. Not only that, but unlike eBay this system will be heavily moderated. For example, say someone posted a negative feedback on Loren because he had a corrupt disc. Before anything was changed on the list, I'd check with Loren and ask him if he's redoing a disc and resending before I'd post a negative reputation on Loren. Remember, TJ and I are the ones who have control of the "ultimate" list.

With all due respect, why don't some of you take a step back and realize the good of this system for the entire community instead of just focusing on yourselves? :wave:

Your Trading Post moderator,
Combsisthebest

Don't forget that we still have the "Good Traders" thread, that will be available as read-only file. That will stay stickied until this system gets off the ground, and the link will remain in the first post of this thread.

If you want to continue to offer constructive criticism that's welcome, but please don't whine. That kind of gets on my nerves. :D

Also when posting feedback, please use the screen name of the person at SO. You can include the person's real name in addition if you wish, but I definitely need the screen name. :) Thanks. Let the feedback begin!

I just kind of feel that we have come to a point where this system is totally unneccessary. Look at the posts for the past few weeks. A person posts a trader check and within an hour in most cases if the person is a scammer, they are exposed. We are getting really good at knowing all thier tricks and I honestly believe they are realizing this and staying away for the most part. To be honest, I'll bet no one on here remembers doing a trade with me. I've done a few on here (with some of the most reputable traders might I add) but they are few and far between because I like odd things. I only frequent here on the odd chance that someone might want something I have and since it is so odd I try to help out. I can easily give references of people I'm trading with now if I was to set up a trade but if a person were to only look at my feedback score, they would stay away from me. I think this system creates a situation were the board could loose people like me who have no interest in getting thier score up, I just want people to get stuff that they are interested in.

the going back and counting past trades makes a lot of difference from the first idea post, thats very fair to the old timers, everyone doesnt need to start over at zero

the idea of checking out what the story is if there is a negative posted, is very fair--its also a lot of work , but should be much better than the ebay--paypack negative system

the idea to check ip addresses for people giving them selves feedback still sounds all good, but impossible to monitor

i have 5 public libraries close to my house with different free use computers, plus most folks have them at work to use, plus at home. a person would have no problem getting the use of several ip addresses. and therefore several chances to do their own feedbacks.

i must ask people to pm me their sitcoms name if we have traded so i can leave you proper feedback--i know everyone by their street name or by one of the names they used on the many other sites, i am a little fuzzy on some of the names here. so please i didnt forget you, i just dont know your sitcoms handle in many cases

ill answer ever pm asap and post the feedback asap as well--thanks

the idea to check ip addresses for people giving them selves feedback still sounds all good, but impossible to monitor

i have 5 public libraries close to my house with different free use computers, plus most folks have them at work to use, plus at home. a person would have no problem getting the use of several ip addresses. and therefore several chances to do their own feedbacks.
Loren,

I believe that you of all people will benefit from this system, since you're still trading hot and heavy without an end in sight. :lol:

If I'm not mistaken, the ISPs will actually indicate the town/state. If someone's monitoring these thoroughly, that'd be a good tip-off.

This system works very well at CPS; however, that group is moderated with an iron fist (I don't mean that in an unkind way). We may have a few kinks along the way, but combsisthebest is proving to be a remarkably wise moderator. :)

IMHO :wave:

Loren,

I believe that you of all people will benefit from this system, since you're still trading hot and heavy without an end in sight. :lol:

If I'm not mistaken, the ISPs will actually indicate the town/state. If someone's monitoring these thoroughly, that'd be a good tip-off.

This system works very well at CPS; however, that group is moderated with an iron fist (I don't mean that in an unkind way). We may have a few kinks along the way, but combsisthebest is proving to be a remarkably wise moderator. :)

IMHO :wave:


please dont run this site anything like cartoon cps, they limit peoples ability to join even thought the membership gives them all kinds of good references--solely for personal reasons by the owne or moderator,

i was a member for about a day at one point and one of the higher ups decided that since i sold dvds, i couldnt be a member--even after the application and verification --references process was completed

to even join the site you must be vouched for on an open posting with all your info, so their feedback system is totaly useless---you have to be known and stood up for by others previous to even getting in the membership--not just hotmail address references , but other members from that particular site

so what does their feedback system show, activity only

why does this site have a great number of really good traders, because they were screened before they got in, the feedback system has nothing at all to do with it--they were very good and great tarders to begin with--

thats the reason it has nothing in common with sitcoms site, this site is open to any and all, good, bad , really bad and really good alike

even people who are known thieves and scammers are allowed to sign up and rejoin a number of times on the sitcoms site, without getting run

and please, before i get piled on, the moderators do have their ip addy as well, and that doesnt seem to matter either

next

ip adresses, im my case, i live within 10 miles of the following towns with libraries, reedsburg, rocksprings, baraboo, lake delton, wi dells, and la farge wisconsin

its very easy to have several ip addresses that will not trip a red flag because they are all from different cities and providers.

further most newer motel-hotels have wireless connections for free, a scammer can go sit in the hotel lobby and scam away

remember a couple weeks ago a dude was scamming --he was homeless and was useing a public computer to bilk several folks

also in a huge town like chicago, there could be many people on the same internet provider, and it doesnt mean they are scammers

the idea sounds real good, but in practice, not rally

Can I just ask what the point of this is? If it is to eliminate trader checks, it's not gonna happen. There are always going to be people like me who don't care about thier rating so they don't bother with it. If some asks me to rate them, then I have no problem doing that but I really couldn't care less if they rate me back. Also, there are always going to be new members that don't have ratings yet. There are a bunch of us on here that don't like cps and thats why we aren't on there, we are on here. Please don't try to turn it into that because then I will have to find another place that I like as much as this place. I just kind of see this as a waste of time when I barely have time as it is to do what I love which is trade shows.

Basically, I agree with Loren and jasimon1 about this whole idea. What's the point?

Keeping bad traders out in the first place is the way to keep things clean and safe, not some silly feedback system.

For newbies, there is only one way to avoid getting scammed and that is BE SMART. This does not mean base trading decisions on some # derived through a system fraught with 2 major problems:
1. Potential mis-use: As Loren pointed out, but not just the padding of feedback via multiple IPs, one can also get various friends to add to it unjustifiably, and one can also do a large # of legitimate, but small, trades just to get the # up. The old do-20 one-disc-trades to scam somebody for 100 later.
2. Mis-representation: Good, honest traders will have low #s simply because they don't do a lot of trading with people on this board. Also, large lot traders will have less than small lot traders. It takes the same amount of time to make 100 discs whether they're all to be sent to one person or 100 different people, yet 1 person gets 100 +s and the other gets 1. In a system where lazy newbies are going to rely soley on the actual # shown, this scoring system severly handicaps one and hugely benefits the other.

Being smart means either keeping trades small so that the risk is low and/or doing your own research. How does the person come across in emails? What is his/her list like? What is their eBay feedback? What do they say in other posts? Do they start or participate in interesting topics of conversation? What do they have to say when we have quality discussions, or equipment discussions, or format discussions? Do a trader check - don't read just the good and bad, but how enthusiastic about this trader are the respondents? Etc.

A newbie will come here in a couple of months, and if (s)he is not "into" this enough to read the old posts and see what's going on here, they'll just look at this list and see, for instance by his own admission of quantity, that Loren has maybe 200 +s and that Agent 13 isn't far behind, but sadly they don't have what this newbie is looking for. They'll see some other long-time, equally reliable trader, me for instance, with a 5 and I do have what they're looking for. So does the padded scammer, with a rating of 25. What are they going to think and more importantly, what are they going to do? One could put in as many disclaimers as they wanted in an attempt to state up-front how the point system works, what it represents, the potential for mis-use that is beyond the moderator's control etc. but it won't matter because they won't read that either. The actual # will be the almighty determining factor. And the newbie still gets scammed.

The whole purpose of this list, I assume, is to benefit newbies. We old-timers know who here is reliable and who's not. Then why potentially lull newbies into a false sense of security? I say force them to do their own leg-work, it will do them good. There's lots of hints and things to learn in the old posts on this board. If they can't be bothered, they probably should not be in this hobby.

Apologies to all in advance who are expecting to get + feedback from me, I for one will not be participating.

I agree with jasimon1. That's why people are here and it might turn out to be a contest for some people. I hope there won't be a point system here. The good traders post is all we need. Anyone not on that list needs to send first.

I agree with jasimon1. That's why people are here and it might turn out to be a contest for some people. I hope there won't be a point system here. The good traders post is all we need. Anyone not on that list needs to send first.

very nicely put and right to the point

its whats been talked about for a long while in a small paragraph


BUT, since it looks like the point system will be the law here, its time to be like santa and check the lists and give it up for the good traders

and the dead horse has been beaten to a pulp, now its feedback time

please dont run this site anything like cartoon cps, they limit peoples ability to join even thought the membership gives them all kinds of good references--solely for personal reasons by the owne or moderator,

i was a member for about a day at one point and one of the higher ups decided that since i sold dvds, i couldnt be a member--even after the application and verification --references process was completed

to even join the site you must be vouched for on an open posting with all your info, so their feedback system is totaly useless---you have to be known and stood up for by others previous to even getting in the membership--not just hotmail address references , but other members from that particular site
In defense of CPS, they have a strict rule about members not selling publically on-line (ebay, yahoo, etc.). When referred people apply, the owners do a thorough google search to find out if members are selling openly. The reason why they don't allow "sellers" is because of trying to keep above the law as much as possible to keep the group from getting into trouble with the MPAA.

CPS members can also be banned if they don't comply with the established rules (badgering, selling, profiteering, etc.).

You're safe that having such rules would be impossible to impose here because the vast number of members of Sitcomsonline never post on The Trading Post.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are my observations.)

Jen

I don't know about TJ, but the place where I check IP addresses also gives me a list of neighboring cities/towns. :) Again, I've said that if you are suspicious of something PM or email me.

This place is NEVER going to be like CPS. The feedback system may be similar, but that's it. So for those who are worrying about that, please don't. :)

The point of this is to help everyone. Maybe you don't think it'll help you, but I'm sure that it will help someone else. If I were a newbie I'd trade with someone who had a +3 because that means they've had three successful trades.

Those who aren't participating are obviously not going to make the system work, and I'm sure that's just what is wanted too. Why is it when there's change everyone freaks out? :rolleyes: I am trying very hard to help you all, and accomodate to everyone.

Those who aren't participating are obviously not going to make the system work, and I'm sure that's just what is wanted too. Why is it when there's change everyone freaks out? :rolleyes: I am trying very hard to help you all, and accomodate to everyone.

I think you are missing our point completely! I honestly don't care one way or another if this thing works or not. I just think it is completely pointless when we already have things in place like the "good trader post" and honestly, a lot of members on here that get great joy out of exposing scammers. Like I said in a post last week, it seems like we are one big family trying to keep the other members of our family safe. I kinda feel like this new system will tear the family apart in an effort to get points.

I don't mean to be mean but I don't like where this board has gone since Jen stepped down. It seems like the moment she left there were all these new rules to make this board exactly like other boards. Sorry, I just don't like pointless changes.

I think you are missing our point completely! I honestly don't care one way or another if this thing works or not. I just think it is completely pointless when we already have things in place like the "good trader post" and honestly, a lot of members on here that get great joy out of exposing scammers. Like I said in a post last week, it seems like we are one big family trying to keep the other members of our family safe. I kinda feel like this new system will tear the family apart in an effort to get points.

I don't mean to be mean but I don't like where this board has gone since Jen stepped down. It seems like the moment she left there were all these new rules to make this board exactly like other boards. Sorry, I just don't like pointless changes.
I personally am trying my hardest. Kind of ironic since Jen is the one who gave me this idea in a post she made at THIS board. :rolleyes: What rules changes? Jen was still around when no selling was started. Sorry, but I just don't agree with you there.

I think that you're choosing to see the negative in this system. You're choosing to believe that people will make this into a competition. Well that's not how I see it. I see it as just another way we're all helping each other out. :)

Like I said before, I don't care about any of this. If you wanna do it, fine, if you don't, don't. If this gets to be a place I don't wanna frequent, I'll leave. No big deal.

In defense of combsisthest, he merely took the point system idea recently freshly suggested by cartoondvds, but this wasn't the first time this system was contemplated. When I first started moderating here, TJ mentioned that he'd contemplated a point system similar to ebay but was hesitant about implementing it.

Instead, TJ agreed to first implement the "good traders only" sticky post 2/04, which I thought was better than nothing. :) (It's hard to read page after page, which is why I thought having a point count would be more of a benefit.)

I did resign from being moderator for various reasons, but I have been overseeing things because I'm addicted to this place, besides the fact that I don't like to see bad traders get the upper hand. :D I have given combsisthebest insight when warranted, simply because I've had my nose in so many places that I am aware of various situations, at least for the time being. combsisthe best is actually a far better moderator than I will ever be because he doesn't get so emotionally involved, like I do. It comes more naturally to him.

As for things seeming to have slipped since I quit moderating... I don't believe that to be true because I'm not really "gone", just more on the sidelines. These recent bad trader posts come and go. No one gleefully relishes exposing these people, anymore than anyone would enjoy killing flies with a fly swatter (bad example, I know) just for the sake of swatting flies.

Kind of on the fence, I like the instant posts when there is a trading problem, but they do get lost in the shuffle at times.

Point system is not my preference.

Basically, I only trade with people I know or know of their reputation. Although I am currently trading with some new people but they have been on here awhile.

I think everybody needs to be smart, don't jump into things. I guess the people who will benefit from a point system are newbies, I am not sure how much it will help me.

Tom D.

My apologies to anyone who found my idea intrusive/offensive. I was only trying to state that the current system was confusing as far as "Senior Member" was concerned. I added a couple of suggestions that I thought might make things less confusing for "newbies".

I do realize that most of the discussion is coming from experienced and reliable traders and as such I can definately see that this alone is a huge benefit to "newbies"

Please don't Lynch me if the new system does get started, Perhaps just removing Senior Member or having an actual value to this title may be sufficient.

That was the main source of my original question as it seemed misleading that someone could be a Senior Member and only be around a few months with no sufficient trading background

Remember everyone whether you are for or agianst my ideas, Debate and discussion is a great way to improve your typing skills and vocabulary :lol:

Cheers
Jay :happyface

www.freewebs.com/cartoondvds

...Please don't Lynch me if the new system does get started...
Couldn't resist. :cannon Jay
I've been waiting for the opportunity to use that machine gun on someone. :lol: :happyface :lol: :happyface :lol:

I really don't like this starting at the bottom. Shouldn't there be like a super star trader automatically. I've lost all my files before March when I got my new computer and I've been trading for 3+ years. I've done trades with Paul Martin, Tubel, Martin Sean, Agent 13, but I can't remember how many trades. How is that going to be fair for past trades? If Mashunter still around he left me with an unfinished trade with his tapes all done before November and I never heard from him again after 3 or 4 trades before.

In order to prevent "contests" you merely have to ceiling it at some point. Once you get a certain number of points, you're on a special list that has no more numbers.

The disadvantages of a "just post in the good trader post" system is that scammers have an MO of doing 1-3 good deals before they pull off a heist of a dozen bad ones. A system like this shows who is a reliable veteran, who is new, etc. Feedback like this is a "levels of trust" system. Which is how real life works. It takes time to trust somebody fully.

You wanna fight ????

:smash:
You want some ... come get some

:cannon :explode:

Okay, here's what I'm going to do. The maximum number of "points" you can have is 40. After that you will be a well established trader, and your number will appear 40+. I'm also automatically going to put people who have been a member at SO for 2 or more years in a veteran category. It's clear to me that people who have been here that long aren't going to be scammers. :)

Wow this is fun

Jen you never should have showed me that gun, now I found new toys here.

BTW - All

I have caught up on my trades and I am experiencing serious trading withdraw (2 days of no burning) :sleep2:

Someone help I need to get my fix... If anyone wishes to trade Please check my list (if you don't all hate me now) :cuss:
lol

www.freewebs.com/cartoondvds

Cheers
Jay :happyface

Okay, here's what I'm going to do. The maximum number of "points" you can have is 40. After that you will be a well established trader, and your number will appear 40+. I'm also automatically going to put people who have been a member at SO for 2 or more years in a veteran category. It's clear to me that people who have been here that long aren't going to be scammers. :)


So how does one go about submitting trades? I know that I have had a couple trades with Mel, Loren and Angie and one with Jen and Rare tv but there are a few people here who know me but I do not know their sign ins here. I am assuming the trades would be only ones with Forum members??

LMK

Jay :happyface

Jay,

Go to: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=143166 and you'll see how others did it. You'll get the idea.

I only posted members of this board. In some cases, you might not even be aware that a trader is even a member. I think you could safely add those as they come to mind.

Jen :wave:

Yup

Right there at the top of the board in plain sight and I still missed it


Jay :happyface

Woo Hoo!! I'm almost a veteran already;) I like that idea a LOT!

my two cents: combsisthebest is obviously trying to do what honest regular visitors of this site appreciate most: provide an educated heads-up about who the good and bad traders are by giving each the credit they deserve.

every new system is fraught with potential problems but if the system is a good one, it will withstand and actually improve as corrections are made.

maybe the system will fail and changes will have to be made-no way to know until we try, right?

peace on everyone

I'm with you nannyfan whoo hoo!

As a long time member of the CPS group, I just want to say that I hardly pay any attention to the feedback list over there. The numbers have very little meaning and like others have said, can be inflated and mis-leading. I have seen new members shoot up the charts by making one or two discs trades just to see their name move up in the standings. People abuse the system also, giving a +5 to a friend because they did a favor for them ....


The best way not to get burnt is to read, READ, READ !!! read the message board as often as you can. You can quickly pick up on things & learn something about everyone who posts & everyone that's posted about.
If you have a good reputation it will quickly be evident, if you are a crook you'll eventually be exposed.

Pay attention to the trader checks being done even if it doesn't involve you. Make a mental note, a name or an e-mail might be useful down the road somewhere.
Do the research yourself. Use the search function on this board. It's amazing what comes up with the right keyword. Check out a trader's old posts, there's always clues there.... basically do a little work first and you won't be sorry later...... learn from other people's mistakes, be selective and don't take on every trade that's thrown at you ... PAY ATTENTION !!

By following these simple rules, I can honestly say that in all the years I've been trading, the number of times I've been burnt can be counted on one hand.


Joker

Listen RareTVonDVD, this is not a place to rat or whine about other services. State your views is fine, but it really seems like you have some sort of grudge. Well, I and I'm sure others don't want it here, so don't even start. Other people didn't have a problem with stating their views against the system in a more constructive way.

Also sounds like you need some faith. Heaven forbid that I trust people (not like it's blind trust either). :rolleyes:

Listen RareTVonDVD, this is not a place to rat or whine about other services. State your views is fine, but it really seems like you have some sort of grudge. Well, I and I'm sure others don't want it here, so don't even start. Other people didn't have a problem with stating their views against the system in a more constructive way.

Also sounds like you need some faith. Heaven forbid that I trust people (not like it's blind trust either). :rolleyes:

So because he is saying how he feels about a system that you set up, and he isn't agreeing with you, he needs some faith? Wow, you are just as petty and close minded as my GUT told me you were. That was the last straw guys, I'm outta here.

So because he is saying how he feels about a system that you set up, and he isn't agreeing with you, he needs some faith? Wow, you are just as petty and close minded as my GUT told me you were. That was the last straw guys, I'm outta here.
There are some things that have gone on behind the scenes that you're not aware of, Jasimon1. I will not air anyone's dirty laundry. Suffice it to say that all is not what it appears, and Combisthebest is not petty or closed minded. Quite the contrary.

This type of point system may make it easier than sifting through a 7+ page of "good trader posts only"; however, as with eBay's feedback system, ours will not be 100% accurate because many traders are content to let others post positive comments, without lifting a finger to do so themselves, besides the fact that many feedbacks are given for "sales" rather than actual trades, which is not what this board is all about.

The point system will make it easier for newbies especially to see which members are reputable
That statement is true if, and only if, scammers do not abuse this system by fraudulently racking up points. As RareTVonDVD constructively pointed out, the safeguard we were told would be used (checking IPs) can easily be circumvented with an anonymous proxy remailer, so we're left with nothing. Agent 13's statement that this system will not be 100% accurate is a severe understatement: not only will it not be 100% accurate, in some cases it may be 0% accurate.

The people who are going to be most hurt by this unreliable, inaccurate information is not the long-time members. It will be the inexperienced newbies. The very same people that this is supposedly created to help are the ones who stands to be the most deceived.

True, the list will state with no uncertainty that Loren, Agent 13 and any others who are extremely active with other members here are reliable. That is good. They've traded hard, made lots of contacts and deserve to be publicly called reputable. But in the middle of the pack, where everybody has 5-20, how are serious traders like myself and RareTVonDVD, who are totally reliable but not particularly active here, and less-serious traders who trade only intermittently but are also honest and reliable people, distinguished from the scammer with padded points? Answer: there is no distinction. And if the system does not make that distinction, then how, exactly, does it make it easier for a newbie to see who's reputable? Agent 13? Anyone?

It's clear that most people support the idea of a "Reputable Traders" list. So do I. See, the problem is not with having a feedback system per se, it's what this particular feedback system measures and how it goes about it. As currently proposed, this system does not measure "reputation" by any standard definition of the word. It only measures who trades the most with other traders on Sitcoms Online and it does so without any means of data verification.

Alternatively, consider that some of the active/reliable members here could create a list of those people that are known, with certainty, to be reliable. They could form a "committee" of sorts and can update the list every 3-6 months with new additions as new (or old) people prove themselves with other members OVER TIME. It is totally unimportant that someone has, say, "1" successful trade. But if a person does several trades with different members, and they see his/her list grow online as they post additions, and they participate in discussions etc, then they just naturally gain a reputation that everybody on the board can see and feel comfortable with. Only at that point do they get on that list. A scammer is not going to go through all that trouble so a system like that provides a safeguard to keep them off the list. If a person is not on that list, a trader check is in order. Okay, that's just a thought off the top of my head, it may or may not be a good, or workable, idea. But to have a system where anybody and everybody can send in data, however unreliable, and to have that data be presented on a "Traders Reputation" list, which is going to be assumed to be true by a newbie, is only a good idea if scammers don't infiltrate.

We all know the scammers are out there, there's no denying it. With this, they will be able to prosper, over and over again, by continuously padding points using different aliases and always having at least one alias that makes them appear reputable, always ready to strike. When a newbie posts a want, they can reply and point to their "reputation" to suck them in. Maybe I'm paranoid and scammers won't do this, but it seems likely to me. Perhaps some of the supporters can tell me: Is there any valid reason to think that this won't happen?

Alternatively, consider that some of the active/reliable members here could create a list of those people that are known, with certainty, to be reliable. They could form a "committee" of sorts and can update the list every 3-6 months with new additions as new (or old) people prove themselves with other members OVER TIME. It is totally unimportant that someone has, say, "1" successful trade. But if a person does several trades with different members, and they see his/her list grow online as they post additions, and they participate in discussions etc, then they just naturally gain a reputation that everybody on the board can see and feel comfortable with. Only at that point do they get on that list. A scammer is not going to go through all that trouble so a system like that provides a safeguard to keep them off the list. If a person is not on that list, a trader check is in order. Okay, that's just a thought off the top of my head, it may or may not be a good, or workable, idea. But to have a system where anybody and everybody can send in data, however unreliable, and to have that data be presented on a "Traders Reputation" list, which is going to be assumed to be true by a newbie, is only a good idea if scammers don't infiltrate.

We all know the scammers are out there, there's no denying it. With this, they will be able to prosper, over and over again, by continuously padding points using different aliases and always having at least one alias that makes them appear reputable, always ready to strike. When a newbie posts a want, they can reply and point to their "reputation" to suck them in. Maybe I'm paranoid and scammers won't do this, but it seems likely to me. Perhaps some of the supporters can tell me: Is there any valid reason to think that this won't happen?

Lazygrae, I REALLY like that idea. If more people are interested and agree with that idea I'm willing to change my vote in the poll to drop the current system in favor of that. I think that's an excellent idea! <Hand Clapping> :wave:

Lazygrae's idea sounds ideal. :wave: This is the best idea so far!

Like lazygrea idea also

I have no problem "paying my dues" as it goes and I think that it being new here jumping up to where RareTv sits on the list however nice for me is not really a good indicator as I have really been here for 2 weeks and although I have done trades with 4 or 5 here my experience has been mostly outside this forum. People like lazygrea, RareTv, etc.. have paid there dues here as I can tell by Forum discussions and others feedback. The numbers system I think may be unfair to people such as those.

The committee system seems like a really good idea although I wonder if there is someone who may feel slighted by not getting on the comittee. Perhaps someone who is a good trader but does not particpate in discussions or rubs people the wrong way.

By far I think this proposal definately has the opportunity to be the most equitable, however as many have discussed it will not be 100% accurate as I am sure some people may get missed.

numbers have very little meaning and like others have said, can be inflated and mis-leading. I have seen new members shoot up the charts by making one or two discs trades just to see their name move up in the standings. People abuse the system also, giving a +5 to a friend because they did a favor for them ...."
No. People may put down +100, but they only get +1 when mods update the lists. He who updates the list merely needs common sense. When "newbies" leave lots of feedback for other "newbies" then you know something is fishy.

James, the owner of CPS
Not the owner.

First, the demographic skews very young,
No.

riddled with download kiddies who bulk up their trading lists with divx downloads but don't know how to convert the divx files to DVDs correctly
Everybody has this problem. Sadly. But it's a minority that is chastised when identified.

The other guy from CPS who still owes me stuff after more than half a year is one of the owners of CPS.
This is a private matter, and as discussed before, a bit more complex than "he won't send it".

The second problem is one I alluded to earlier. Who are the people who'll rack up big feedback points fast? Young kids. . You tell me -- is a junior high school kid with nothing but a ahndful of crummy-looking downloads the preferred person _you_ want to trade with? Is that the kind of person you want to turn into the elite traders of this forum? What is wrong with this picture?
Kids do not enjoy/trade the kinds of oldies people enjoy/trade/discuss on SO, much less even heard of most of them. I don't think that's a big worry to have.

In my experience, anyone who tries to hold up CPS as a model for a trading community automatically disqualifies hi/rself as a competent or knowledgeable authority on DVD trading.
Insults from a non-member with a grudge.

Loren also has had a few things to say about CPS:
Another non-member with a grudge.


Regardless of what happens at SO, a system to identify good/bad traders would be a welcome improvement. The current system of "good threads" and "bad threads" takes a while to sift through. A centralized format of some sort would be helpful, and there are lots of models out there that can be followed. None of them will ever be perfect or please everybody, but most of them work most of the time.