Black smoke has just been seen pouring from the Sistine Chapel chimney which means no Pope elected. They will return tomorrow. White smoke and tolling bells will signifiy a new Pope.

Oh okay. That's interesting information about the smoke and stuff. I didn't know that.

Black smoke has just been seen pouring from the Sistine Chapel chimney which means no Pope elected. They will return tomorrow. White smoke and tolling bells will signifiy a new Pope.


Aren't they going to do the smoke thing twice a day? I thought I heard that yesterday on CNN. I figure this one might take a few days. Sounds like there's a lot of possible candidates and I'm sure its a little extra special because they'll want to make sure they pick a guy who can follow JPII's footsteps.

Frankly, I'd like to see the Nigerian candidate take it. Apparently Africans and other black catholics make up the majority of Catholics. Also, with AIDS and HIV such a huge issue they feel it might be a good choice. It would be interesting to see a black leader.

In any event, I'm quite interested to see who'll be the next one. I'm glad JPII added the bell ringing - afterall, it makes sense (I'm surprised it wasn't always that way). The bells last rang to signal his burial, and now they'll ring to signal his successor.

Popewatch 2005 - All Conclave, All the Time!

Next few days are going to be NUTS, folks

Whoever they choose is going to have some mighty big shoes to fill.

Popewatch 2005 - All Conclave, All the Time!

Next few days are going to be NUTS, folks


:lol:

We're in the Final Playoffs Folks and its a close race with The Cardinals vs. The Cardinals! Its the biggest religious match of the year - arrange your CardinalBowl Parties now!

:woohoo:

The Bookies have Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria leading 3/1 with Cardinal Ratzinger of Germany at 8/1 odds.

Popewatch 2005 - All Conclave, All the Time!

Next few days are going to be NUTS, folks



This is going to be one of the highest rated Popeoperas of all time.

The Bookies have Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria leading 3/1 with Cardinal Ratzinger of Germany at 8/1 odds.

I'm in for a $100 (Cdn. - that's about $5.43 USD) on Arinze!!

:lol:

We're in the Final Playoffs Folks and its a close race with The Cardinals vs. The Cardinals! Its the biggest religious match of the year - arrange your CardinalBowl Parties now!

:woohoo:

:lol:

P-O-P-E!

POPE! POPE! POPE!!!!

:lol:

:lol:

P-O-P-E!

POPE! POPE! POPE!!!!

:lol:

:lol:


POPE! POPE! POPE!!!! HE'S OUR MAN - IF HE CAN'T DO IT - NOBODY CAN!!! :happyface

For most of us here, were this first conclave we've been around for. it's interesting to hearing it about it.

the pope doesn't even do anything besides sit around.

For most of us here, were this first conclave we've been around for. it's interesting to hearing it about it.
i vaguely remember seeing the last one on tv when I was little

i wonder how many votes Al Sharpton is gonna get?

i vaguely remember seeing the last one on tv when I was little

i wonder how many votes Al Sharpton is gonna get?


:lol:

Yeah, I was in my teens during the last vote so I really didn't pay much attention. I just remember my mom telling me about the smoke thing. It is interesting - don't get me wrong - just trying to have a bit of fun after all that mourning now!

For most of us here, were this first conclave we've been around for. it's interesting to hearing it about it.

It's also the first one with 24-hour news channels and a little thing called the internet. :)

It's also the first one with 24-hour news channels and a little thing called the internet. :)
:brent

After 4 days, what if they haven't elected one, we've got no Pope?! I'm not religious that much, but for some strange reason, it would feel strange without a Pope.

After 4 days, what if they haven't elected one, we've got no Pope?! I'm not religious that much, but for some strange reason, it would feel strange without a Pope.

It goes on until there is a Pope(weekdays only I *think*). After about 12 days(don't quote me), the number of votes needed is just a simple majority. Pope John Paul made that change during his reign.

Failing that, I'm sure Michael Jackson will declare himself the next Pope. Afterall, he already compared "this persecution" to that of Nelson Mandella.

The obvious next step is God himself. ;)

:lol:

We're in the Final Playoffs Folks and its a close race with The Cardinals vs. The Cardinals! Its the biggest religious match of the year - arrange your CardinalBowl Parties now!

:woohoo:
OK the candidates are:

From Africa-
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Francis+Arinze&word2=Wilfrid+Fox+Napier

From Italy-
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Dionigi+Tettamanzi&word2=Giovanni+Battista
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Angelo+Scola&word2=Ennio+Antonelli

from Europe-
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Godfried+Danneels&word2=Lubomyr+Husar
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Walter+Kasper&word2=Christoph+Sch%F6nborn

from Latin America-
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Jorge+Mario+Bergoglio&word2=Cl%E1udio+Hummes
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Norberto+Rivera+Carrera&word2=Oscar+Andr%E9s+Rodriguez+Maradiaga

the quarter-finals:

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Angelo+Scola&word2=pope+Giovanni+Battista+Re
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Walter+Kasper&word2=pope+Godfried+Danneels
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Oscar+Andr%E9s+Rodriguez+Maradiaga&word2=pope+Cl%E1udio+Hummes
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Ivan+Dias&word2=pope+Francis+Arinze

the semis:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Godfried+Danneels&word2=pope+Giovanni+Battista+Re
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Cl%E1udio+Hummes&word2=pope+Francis+Arinze

the final, and your next pope:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Giovanni+Battista+Re&word2=pope+Francis+Arinze

It goes on until there is a Pope(weekdays only I *think*). After about 12 days(don't quote me), the number of votes needed is just a simple majority. Pope John Paul made that change during his reign.
i think if they can't decide by a clear majority of votes, they should have the closest potential palpable candidates perform a series of challenges then wrestle in Jell-o in full regalia.

I was under the impression that there wasn't going to be a pope.

I was under the impression that there wasn't going to be a pope.

What gave you that impression?

I was under the impression that there wasn't going to be a pope.

There's been a Pope since the 1st one was elected in 1067(not counting the times between the death and the election of a new one), why would they stop now? :lol:

OK the candidates are:

From Africa-
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Francis+Arinze&word2=Wilfrid+Fox+Napier

From Italy-
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Dionigi+Tettamanzi&word2=Giovanni+Battista
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Angelo+Scola&word2=Ennio+Antonelli

from Europe-
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Godfried+Danneels&word2=Lubomyr+Husar
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Walter+Kasper&word2=Christoph+Sch%F6nborn

from Latin America-
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Jorge+Mario+Bergoglio&word2=Cl%E1udio+Hummes
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Norberto+Rivera+Carrera&word2=Oscar+Andr%E9s+Rodriguez+Maradiaga

the quarter-finals:

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Angelo+Scola&word2=pope+Giovanni+Battista+Re
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Walter+Kasper&word2=pope+Godfried+Danneels
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Oscar+Andr%E9s+Rodriguez+Maradiaga&word2=pope+Cl%E1udio+Hummes
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Ivan+Dias&word2=pope+Francis+Arinze

the semis:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Godfried+Danneels&word2=pope+Giovanni+Battista+Re
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Cl%E1udio+Hummes&word2=pope+Francis+Arinze

the final, and your next pope:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pope+Giovanni+Battista+Re&word2=pope+Francis+Arinze

Pope John Paul II would never have allowed the cardinals to behave so disgracefully! I mean really! Beating one another out of the ring! I am appalled! Where is the ear biting?

Pope John Paul II would never have allowed the cardinals to behave so disgracefully! I mean really! Beating one another out of the ring! I am appalled! Where is the ear biting?


Vince McMahon Presents: CardinalMania I

And the German candidate crawls up onto the turnbuckle and lands and elbow into the favourite Italian candidate's adam's apple.......

The grand finale will be a cage match in Jello in Vatican Square on Sunday!

I couldn't care less! Not meaning to "offend" anyone but I am not a Catholic so whoever is Pope means nothing to me! Why should it? :confused:

I couldn't care less! Not meaning to "offend" anyone but I am not a Catholic so whoever is Pope means nothing to me! Why should it? :confused:

Depending on the person, he could do some good in our world. Likely, he could contribute to repairing relations between nations and averting war. If the next Pope were female, that would be a huge step for the world. Though, at this time, that scenario is extremely unlikely.

I'm not catholic, either. But the Pope is an important man to the world, like the Dalai Lama. Regardless of your religion, he can still change our lives. I have a great deal of respect for John Paul II. He was a good man and he served God and the world well. He did not restrict his aid to only Catholics. That was important for us all. Now, we must see what the future Pope might accomplish.

I couldn't care less! Not meaning to "offend" anyone but I am not a Catholic so whoever is Pope means nothing to me! Why should it? :confused:
in all seriousness.. does the pope even do anything?

in all seriousness.. does the pope even do anything?

Ordinarily, he's a figurehead. But John Paul II, I think, has proven that even a figurehead can do some good. Bin Laden, among others, wanted him dead and that is proof enough that he was important.

in all seriousness.. does the pope even do anything?


I'm not Catholic either, and actually before JPII, I could have cared less too, but he did show that the Pope can have some good influence on world matters. I certainly didn't agree with everything he said or believed in, but he did have a lot of influence on world leaders that did change situtations I think. He would make speeches towards Russia to end Communism, speeches to help stop aparthide, and I think even to free Nelson Mandella. I'm not saying it was his speeches alone, just that it did have some influence I think.
Hey - he also brought us the Popemobile!! No kidding - before him, the pope rarely left the Vatican. That's why they considered him a real pope for the people. I guess if you really have the faith it's a really big deal since some believe he cured the ill. (Hence wanting to make him a saint).

in all seriousness.. does the pope even do anything?
he promotes peace, acts as a dimplomat and he poses for these lovely souvenirs :

http://www.completelybonkers.com/images-executive-office/pope.jpghttp://pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/94829/200.jpg

Pope on a Rope

Irreverent possibly, but still the easiest way to scrub away those sins, simply use the sacred suds and you will gleam with goodness

he promotes peace, acts as a dimplomat and he poses for these lovely souvenirs :

http://www.completelybonkers.com/images-executive-office/pope.jpghttp://pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/94829/200.jpg

:brent (I'm sorry, but I can't even write what I'd like to say about the first Popesoap or I'll be thrown off the boards). :rofl:

well, regardless of WHO they elect as the next pope, i predict a strong surge of sales for all -on-a-rope-related novelty products

More black smoke, still no pope elected.

More smoke is coming out looks like it's black

The crowd is screaming as the smoke gets more white. the bells aren't ringing yet.

It's White!

Sorry about the other post... I swear I am blind.

The smoke looks white to me, but nothing official yet.

It's very confusing. the bells still haven't rang which would have confirmed it, the crowd was just fooled by the 6:00 bells.

The Bells are ringing, we have a new Pope!

The Bells are ringing, we have a new Pope!

party:

...and I'm not Catholic. YAY! No more guessing at the color of smoke. :lol:

I'm not Catholic, but this is really exciting. we won't know who it is for few seconds.

i bet they were in there playing tiddly-winks for Rosary beads the whole time. :rolleyes:

Yes, I'm sure that's what they were doing. :rolleyes:

It's Ratzinger - so much for my bet!

It's Ratzinger - so much for my bet!
Who did you think it was going to be?

Pope Benedict XVI

That's gonna take some getting used to. :lol:

Who did you think it was going to be?

I was kinda hoping for the Nigerian guy - Arinze.

Ratzinger was very close to JPII though. He's 73, and doesn't want to go past 80, so it won't be nearly as long as JPII was Pope. They say he's a really nice guy in person even though he projects a tough image in public.

Tough stance on gays and gay marriage still.

He's 79 years old. He must be transitional...

He's 79 years old. He must be transitional...

I just heard 73 on CNN, but when I googled it does look like he was born in 1927. Geez, if he doesn't want to go past 80, then it won't be a long time before we're seeing this process again then. Seems a bit odd.

He just turned 78 on Saturday... born in 1927.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI

He just turned 78 on Saturday... born in 1927.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI

Yeah, now CNN's corrected themselves and are saying 78 years old.

I kinda like "Pope Benedict" - has a nice ring to it. (no pun intended with all the bells going behind me in St. Peter's Square)!

Ratzinger was born in Marktl am Inn, in Bavaria, the son of a police officer who was staunchly anti-Nazi. In 1937 Ratzinger's father retired and settled in the town of Traunstein. When Ratzinger turned 14 in 1941, he was required by law to join the Hitler Youth , but according to his biographer John Allen he was not an enthusiastic member. In 1943, at the age of 16 he was, along with the rest of his class, drafted into the Flak or anti-aircraft corps, responsible for the guarding of a BMW plant outside Munich. He was then sent for basic infantry training and was posted to Hungary, where he worked setting up anti-tank defences until he deserted in April 1944 (an offence punishable by death). In 1945 he was briefly held in an Allied POW camp. By June he was released, and he and his brother (Georg) entered a Catholic seminary. On June 29, 1951, they were ordained by Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich. His dissertation (1953) was on Saint Augustine, his Habilitationsschrift (second dissertation) on Saint Bonaventure.

Ratzinger was a professor at the University of Bonn from 1959 until 1963, when he moved to the University of Münster. In 1966, he took a chair in dogmatic theology at the University of Tübingen, where he was a colleague of Hans Küng but was confirmed in his traditionalist views by the liberal atmosphere of Tübingen and the Marxist leanings of the student movement of the 1960s. In 1969 he returned to Bavaria, to the University of Regensburg.

At the Second Vatican Council (1962 – 1965), Ratzinger served as a peritus or chief theological expert, to Cardinal Joseph Frings of Cologne, Germany.


Communio and later works
In 1972, he founded the theological journal Communio with Hans Urs von Balthasar, Henri de Lubac and others. Communio, now published in seventeen editions (German, English, Spanish and many others), has become one of the most important journals of Catholic thought.

In March 1977 Ratzinger was named archbishop of Munich and Freising and in the consistory that June was named a Cardinal by Pope Paul VI. Today he is one of only 14 remaining cardinals appointed by Paul VI, and one of only three of those under the age of 80 and so eligible to vote in the conclave of April 2005.

On November 25, 1981 Pope John Paul II named Ratzinger prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly known as the Holy Office of the Inquisition, which was renamed in 1908 by Pope Pius X. He resigned the Munich archdiocese in early 1982, became cardinal-bishop of Velletri-Segni in 1993, vice-dean of the College of Cardinals in 1998, and was elected Dean in 2002. In office, Ratzinger usually takes conservative views on topics such as birth control and inter-religious dialogue. He has been closer to John Paul II than any other cardinal, and Ratzinger and the Pope have been called "intellectual bedfellows".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI

yaayy. That was exciting, I suppose. I didn't see the white smoke come out but I watched the new POPE come out and talk.

i bet they were in there playing tiddly-winks for Rosary beads the whole time. :rolleyes:
:lol:

They were quick about it. Hopefully we'll see married priests and female priests during this Pope's reign.

I kinda like "Pope Benedict" - has a nice ring to it.
i like his nickname - "the Enforcer"

it just sounds cool - "Pope Benedict the Enforcer", i should go Photoshop up some pictures of him with Arnold Schwartzenegger's body and weapons....

They were quick about it. Hopefully we'll see married priests and female priests during this Pope's reign.He's a strict traditionalist, so we probably won't see that. and I don't think he'll reach out to other religions like Pope John Paul II.

He's a strict traditionalist, so we probably won't see that. and I don't think he'll reach out to other religions like Pope John Paul II.

Ouch. Bad move.

There's no doubt that 78 is old, but he's in good health and could serve for a decade or longer. I've been hearing over the last few weeks that they didn't want a Pope who would reign for an entire generation.

From what I've been watching on tv since he was chosen, I'm glad he's our new Pope.

There's no doubt that 78 is old, but he's in good health and could serve for a decade or longer. I've been hearing over the last few weeks that they didn't want a Pope who would reign for an entire generation.

From what I've been watching on tv since he was chosen, I'm glad he's our new Pope.

Apparently Ratzinger himself has said that he doesn't want to serve past 80 - so we're only looking at a couple of years here. :confused:
It sounds as though they did want just a "transitional" guy. I doubt we'll see any changes under him. He has the same beliefs JPII did. And yeah, doesn't sound like he's going to be reaching out or travelling as much as JPII. I'm a little surprised at that since I thought John Paul set a new standard. Hopefully the Popemobile won't have to be put up on blocks.

Apparently Ratzinger himself has said that he doesn't want to serve past 80 - so we're only looking at a couple of years here. :confused:

All the coverage that I'm watching is mentioning his good health and that he could serve longer than expected.

All the coverage that I'm watching is mentioning his good health and that he could serve longer than expected.I heard he didn't want to serve past 80 also. When he was still a cardinal he stated he wanted to retire to Bavaria to write books.

I heard he didn't want to serve past 80 also. When he was still a cardinal he stated he wanted to retire to Bavaria to write books.


Unless he gets pressured into serving longer.

I heard he didn't want to serve past 80 also. When he was still a cardinal he stated he wanted to retire to Bavaria to write books.
Perhaps if he had remained a Cardinal, he was going to retire at 80. I'm not reading anything on the web or seeing anything on tv that states that he's going to be Pope for only two years. Could be wrong, but not seeing it anywhere.

Perhaps if he had remained a Cardinal, he was going to retire at 80. I'm not reading anything on the web or seeing anything on tv that states that he's going to be Pope for only two years. Could be wrong, but not seeing it anywhere.


That's quite possible since after age 80, his "pope hopes" would be dashed. Talk about making it in under the wire!! ;)

That's quite possible since after age 80, his "pope hopes" would be dashed. Talk about making it in under the wire!! ;)
:lol: I'll say.

Pope Benedict XVI

That's gonna take some getting used to. :lol:

I'll never get used to it. Pope John Paul II rolled off the tongue so easily. Pope Benedict XVI? He could have picked a less common name or something.

I won't see him as Pope, though. Throughout my life, I saw Karol Wojtyła in the Papal role and that was my signal that he's Pope. He'll always be it to me. Ratzinger can be up there with the Papal attire and hat and all that, but it won't click to me that he is the Pope.

Perhaps if he had remained a Cardinal, he was going to retire at 80. I'm not reading anything on the web or seeing anything on tv that states that he's going to be Pope for only two years. Could be wrong, but not seeing it anywhere.it's nothing set in stone it was just speculation on what he said before and the fact that the cardinals didn't want a pope that would serve for years and years.

I'll never get used to it. Pope John Paul II rolled off the tongue so easily. Pope Benedict XVI? He could have picked a less common name or something.




Hey - just be glad it wasn't Pope Pius or something like that! I don't mind Benedict. It'll start to roll off your tongue after a while don't worry. There was a couple on their honeymoon they were interviewing and they said they weren't thrilled with it as they were hoping to name a son after him!!! Yeah, being from Texas, you don't want to name a son Benedict I think!! :lol:

They were quick about it. Hopefully we'll see married priests and female priests during this Pope's reign.

He's actually very backwards. He's stated blatantly that other religions don't matter, not even certain Christian religions, but only Catholocism. Karol reached out to people from all different religious and cultural backgrounds and didn't reject them for that, he opened their arms to him. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, anyone. He wanted to close the gap between the different world religions, but if this is true, then I don't know what to think about him.

He's actually very backwards. He's stated blatantly that other religions don't matter, not even certain Christian religions, but only Catholocism. Karol reached out to people from all different religious and cultural backgrounds and didn't reject them for that, he opened their arms to him. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, anyone. He wanted to close the gap between the different world religions, but if this is true, then I don't know what to think about him.I hope that this new pope reaches out to all the people like John Paul II. I think we are in a time where spiritual leadership like John Paul II's is needed.

He's actually very backwards. He's stated blatantly that other religions don't matter, not even certain Christian religions, but only Catholocism. Karol reached out to people from all different religious and cultural backgrounds and didn't reject them for that, he opened their arms to him. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, anyone. He wanted to close the gap between the different world religions, but if this is true, then I don't know what to think about him.

Then I really believe that this is a step in the wrong direction. I'm ready for a new guy already, and this guy hasn't even been inaugarated yet.
Maybe this'll be another "one monther"

He's actually very backwards. He's stated blatantly that other religions don't matter, not even certain Christian religions, but only Catholocism.
Where did you hear that?

Then I really believe that this is a step in the wrong direction. I'm ready for a new guy already, and this guy hasn't even been inaugarated yet.
Maybe this'll be another "one monther"

If organized crime has anything to do with it, you might just be right there!

Yeah, I'm not overly thrilled with the choice. I was hoping for a much more modern one this time around. Well, no matter what, he's not going to last 27 years this time 'round.

Where did you hear that?

In his "acceptance" speech, or whatever it was called. Not so smart to make such a remark practically immediately.

In his "acceptance" speech, or whatever it was called. Not so smart to make such a remark practically immediately.
What was the remark?

In his "acceptance" speech, or whatever it was called. Not so smart to make such a remark practically immediately.He didn't say it in his acceptance speech. this is the text of his speech.

``Dear brothers and sisters, after the great Pope John Paul II, the cardinals have elected me - a simple, humble worker in the vineyard of the Lord.
``The fact that the Lord can work and act even with insufficient means consoles me, and above all I entrust myself to your prayers.
``In the joy of the risen Lord, trusting in his permanent help, we go forward. The Lord will help us and Mary his very holy mother stands by us.''

Where did you hear that?

They were giving some information about him on the news and mentioned his conservative views, including that.

He has stated before that Christianity is above all other religions and the other christian churches are deficent.

They were giving some information about him on the news and mentioned his conservative views, including that.
You should have more backup info than that to state that he's stated blatantly that other religions don't matter, not even certain Christian religions.

He actually said that? He said that other religions don't matter? With an accusation like that, I'd like a link. Some nimrod on a discussion panel could have grossly misquoted him. Then it makes its way around and becomes a "fact".

He has stated before that Christianity is above all other religions and the other christian churches are deficent.
There's nothing wrong with believing that your religion is the best religion. I'm Catholic, so I favor Catholicism. Doesn't mean I have to think Buddhism, Episcopalian, Protestant or others are better than my religion.

I respect everyone's religion, but I think mine's the best. Most everyone thinks that way.

I think that the REAL question that isn't being asked here is, where is Father Guido Sarducci, and what are his feelings about the new pope?

he was there for us in 1976 to help introduce us to the new pope, and I feel that we could benefit from his guidance here as well.

There's nothing wrong with believing that your religion is the best religion. I'm Catholic, so I favor Catholicism. Doesn't mean I have to think Buddhism, Episcopalian, Protestant or others are better than my religion.

I respect everyone's religion, but I think mine's the best. Most everyone thinks that way.

In my experience, a person has a difficult time respecting a religion if they view it as deficient. Certainly you have to make a choice in what you believe in and stick with it. But if one looks down upon other religions as untrue or inferior, I can't see how one can respect them.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but from what I've always understood Catholics have always considered themselves to be THE Christian religion. I can't make exact quotes, but didn't Jesus say to Peter, on this rock, I will build my church - meaning that upon his death, he was passing the reins over to Peter, his apostle, and who was the first pope. Therefore, if the succession came straight from Jesus, it was to be the "only" or at least "true" Christian religion that would follow his teachings exactly.

You should have more backup info than that to state that he's stated blatantly that other religions don't matter, not even certain Christian religions.

He actually said that? He said that other religions don't matter? With an accusation like that, I'd like a link. Some nimrod on a discussion panel could have grossly misquoted him. Then it makes its way around and becomes a "fact".

I didn't see him state it - the people who were doing an overview of his life and said that he stated it. I saw it on tv, not online, so there was no link.

I watching somthing right now on CNN. This one man said that Cardinal Ratzinger published a book that was very controversial in that he critisized other religions. He even refused to call Protestant churches "churches." And he critisized John Paul II when in the late 80s he brought together people from over 200 religions to pray together because he felt that it wasn't right. The name of the book he took Cardinal Ratzinger's quotes from was "Jesus The Lord."

In my experience, a person has a difficult time respecting a religion if they view it as deficient. Certainly you have to make a choice in what you believe in and stick with it. But if one looks down upon other religions as untrue or inferior, I can't see how one can respect them.
I've yet to see proof that he did say other religions were deficient.

You should have more backup info than that to state that he's stated blatantly that other religions don't matter, not even certain Christian religions.

He actually said that? He said that other religions don't matter? With an accusation like that, I'd like a link. Some nimrod on a discussion panel could have grossly misquoted him. Then it makes its way around and becomes a "fact".

I saw a reporter interviewing people, and when one who came up who wasn't Catholic, he asked the girl what she thought about the fact that the new Pope isn't very welcoming towards other religions. It was shortly after the acceptance speech, I presumed he mentioned it there. I guess not though, sorry for starting any trouble.

I do however believe that this man is too closed minded, especially considering the shows he has to fill. No pope will ever be as highly regarded as John Paul II, whom I heard is the second most famous person in the history of the world, second only to Jesus himself.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but from what I've always understood Catholics have always considered themselves to be THE Christian religion. I can't make exact quotes, but didn't Jesus say to Peter, on this rock, I will build my church - meaning that upon his death, he was passing the reins over to Peter, his apostle, and who was the first pope. Therefore, if the succession came straight from Jesus, it was to be the "only" or at least "true" Christian religion that would follow his teachings exactly.

That is what I've always believed. That is why I can't understand why certain people don't view Catholics as Christians. They were the first, after all. Over time, people split and made their own religions, often because they did not agree on what christianity should be. But does that make the first any less Christian?

I didn't see him state it - the people who were doing an overview of his life and said that he stated it. I saw it on tv, not online, so there was no link.

I watching somthing right now on CNN. This one man said that Cardinal Ratzinger published a book that was very controversial in that he critisized other religions. He even refused to call Protestant churches "churches." And he critisized John Paul II when he brought together people from over 200 religions to pray together because he felt that it wasn't right. The name of the book he took Cardinal Ratzinger's quotes from was "Jesus The Lord."


YIKES! If that's true, then I just hope that the people in general will still lobby and follow JPII's doctrine more, maybe forcing Benedict XVI to ease up a bit in certain areas (course I had the same hopes for JPII's views on priests marrying and abortion). I'd hate to see the good work JPII did torn down.

Frankly, I could care less what someone's religion is - I have friends from ALL religions and it doesn't make a difference to us. I find they all have good and bads points to them. I feel as long as it comforts THEM, that's the important thing.

peacesign: out!

I've yet to see proof that he did say other religions were deficient.
That's true, but I was responding to your comment of respect.

That is what I've always believed. That is why I can't understand why certain people don't view Catholics as Christians. They were the first, after all. Over time, people split and made their own religions, often because they did not agree on what christianity should be. But does that make the first any less Christian?

I've never heard that - that Catholics aren't Christian!!!??? Are you sure you've got that right? Don't you mean that they feel they are they only true Christian religion? Even if they do, it doesn't matter to me. I've never had anyone come up and belittle me or call me a non-Christian and I was baptised in the United Church which is the most liberal of all I think. Hell, I'm even married to Catholic who's mom is very devout. I even promised her that any children would be raised Catholic and she said it didn't matter to her anyway - she loved me as I am. Now to me, THAT'S being a true Christian!!

YIKES! If that's true, then I just hope that the people in general will still lobby and follow JPII's doctrine more, maybe forcing Benedict XVI to ease up a bit in certain areas (course I had the same hopes for JPII's views on priests marrying and abortion). I'd hate to see the good work JPII did torn down.

Frankly, I could care less what someone's religion is - I have friends from ALL religions and it doesn't make a difference to us. I find they all have good and bads points to them. I feel as long as it comforts THEM, that's the important thing.

peacesign: out!

They were also discussing that the hat can change people, but who knows if it'll really be sincere.

The one thing I'm going to miss the most about John Paul II is the fact that he traveled to all corners to the world. Also, the visits every couple of years to Poland were great too, because it showed that he never forgot his roots. He loved coming back home, and that's going to be the hardest thing for us to accept - him not coming to visit anymore.

YIKES! If that's true, then I just hope that the people in general will still lobby and follow JPII's doctrine more, maybe forcing Benedict XVI to ease up a bit in certain areas (course I had the same hopes for JPII's views on priests marrying and abortion). I'd hate to see the good work JPII did torn down.

I highly doubt we'll ever see the Catholic church change views on abortion. However, I do believe birth control (be it the pill, condoms, or something else) will be embraced The Catholic church in Spain is in full support of birth control, it won't be long before the entire Roman Catholic Church is as well. Theres no hope to stopping AIDS without it.

And, they'll have to allow Priests to marry eventually.... they're at an all time low.

They were also discussing that the hat can change people, but who knows if it'll really be sincere.

The one thing I'm going to miss the most about John Paul II is the fact that he traveled to all corners to the world. Also, the visits every couple of years to Poland were great too, because it showed that he never forgot his roots. He loved coming back home, and that's going to be the hardest thing for us to accept - him not coming to visit anymore.

Is that JPII rocking tennis shoes?!

They were also discussing that the hat can change people, but who knows if it'll really be sincere.

The one thing I'm going to miss the most about John Paul II is the fact that he traveled to all corners to the world. Also, the visits every couple of years to Poland were great too, because it showed that he never forgot his roots. He loved coming back home, and that's going to be the hardest thing for us to accept - him not coming to visit anymore.


That's a great pic CnZ (I'm not even gonna attempt spelling it out :lol: )!

Yeah, those JPII World Tours were cool to witness. I'll never forget the MONTHS of hype before he would come. And the then months afterwards where all the stores were still trying to unload all the souvenirs at half price! :lol:

That's true, but I was responding to your comment of respect.
You can respect other religions and still think your religion is the best. It's like anything. You can love your country the most and still love other countries. You can favor an actor or singer, but still respect others. Not so hard to understand.

What, a person has to love all religions equally in order to respect them? You have to love them as much as your own in order to respect them? Nonsense. I have many friends of various denominations, and I respect their faith. I do.

I've never heard that - that Catholics aren't Christian!!!??? Are you sure you've got that right? Don't you mean that they feel they are they only true Christian religion? Even if they do, it doesn't matter to me. I've never had anyone come up and belittle me or call me a non-Christian and I was baptised in the United Church which is the most liberal of all I think. Hell, I'm even married to Catholic who's mom is very devout. I even promised her that any children would be raised Catholic and she said it didn't matter to her anyway - she loved me as I am. Now to me, THAT'S being a true Christian!!

I agree! But I discovered a while back that many don't consider them Christians. It always baffled me. The only explanation I ever got was that certain ceremonies Catholics perform are sacrilegious. Still they were not specific and I’m not familiar enough with their customs to judge. I always thought that the only requirement to being called a Christian is believing that Jesus died for us and living a life for God.

I highly doubt we'll ever see the Catholic church change views on abortion. However, I do believe birth control (be it the pill, condoms, or something else) will be embraced The Catholic church in Spain is in full support of birth control, it won't be long before the entire Roman Catholic Church is as well. Theres no hope to stopping AIDS without it.

And, they'll have to allow Priests to marry eventually.... they're at an all time low.

I'm all for birth control, and I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later. As for marriage for priests, I don't think that's going to happen. What they teach is that everyone in life has a vocation. You can either get married and raise a family or devote you life to God by becoming a priest, a nun, a brother, etc. So there really is no need for marriage, as their vocation is already being fulfilled. Remember, brothers and sisters are also not allowed to marry for that same reason.

I highly doubt we'll ever see the Catholic church change views on abortion. However, I do believe birth control (be it the pill, condoms, or something else) will be embraced The Catholic church in Spain is in full support of birth control, it won't be long before the entire Roman Catholic Church is as well. Theres no hope to stopping AIDS without it.

And, they'll have to allow Priests to marry eventually.... they're at an all time low.


Actually - I'm sorry - I meant birth control! Yeah, there's no way they'll change on abortion. Yeah, birth control, priests marrying and homosexuality is what I'm hoping will eventually change. (Again, why I was hoping for the Nigerian to get it).

Apparently at one point (can't remember if it was the 600th or 16th century) priests were allowed to marry for a while. I guess it depends on what version you believe - whether Jesus was married or not.

Is that JPII rocking tennis shoes?!

:lol: I know - I thought that when I saw him wearing them in another pic once. They sure look like pure white Nikes, but they are actually a cloth covered shoe - almost like spats. "Religious Runners" so to speak! :D

I'm all for birth control, and I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later. As for marriage for priests, I don't think that's going to happen. What they teach is that everyone in life has a vocation. You can either get married and raise a family or devote you life to God by becoming a priest, a nun, a brother, etc. So there really is no need for marriage, as their vocation is already being fulfilled. Remember, brothers and sisters are also not allowed to marry for that same reason.

That's true. But the rate of men entering the priesthood drops yearly. The main reason?? ....they can't get married.

Is that JPII rocking tennis shoes?!

I think they're allowed to wear gym shoes, especially for such a hiking enthusiast as Karol. ;) One my favorite pictures of him, too.

I think they're allowed to wear gym shoes, especially for such a hiking enthusiast as Karol. ;) One my favorite pictures of him, too.

They're told what to wear even outside of religious ceremonies? Ehh, its the price you pay for being one of the most important people in the world.

You can respect other religions and still think your religion is the best. It's like anything. You can love your country the most and still love other countries. You can favor an actor or singer, but still respect others. Not so hard to understand.

What, a person has to love all religions equally in order to respect them? You have to love them as much as your own in order to respect them? Nonsense. I have many friends of various denominations, and I respect their faith. I do.

I see what you're saying. It makes sense. But I haven't seen it work in practice. Most people I've seen, after choosing one over the other, can't respect an "inferior" religion. People call them "wrong". That has been my observation. That is why I have no religion, so I can respect them all. This is what works for me.

I agree! But I discovered a while back that many don't consider them Christians. It always baffled me. The only explanation I ever got was that certain ceremonies Catholics perform are sacrilegious. Still they were not specific and I’m not familiar enough with their customs to judge. I always thought that the only requirement to being called a Christian is believing that Jesus died for us and living a life for God.


I haven't heard anything like that about Catholics, but yeah, to me, the word being "C H R I S T ian" means the belief as Christ being the Messiah. Hence, Jews still waiting for the evidence of a Messiah and still following the old testament. Muslims believe in Jesus Christ, but only as one of the prophets like Abraham, Mohammed, etc.. While Buddists, etc. don't believe in Christ at all.

Geez - who ARE you talking to? (I'm not being sarcastic, just really wondering cuz that's really out there from what I've ever discussed with anyone and I've had tons of Catholic friends - I grew up in an Italian/Portuguese neighbourhood!)

Actually - I'm sorry - I meant birth control! Yeah, there's no way they'll change on abortion. Yeah, birth control, priests marrying and homosexuality is what I'm hoping will eventually change. (Again, why I was hoping for the Nigerian to get it).

Apparently at one point (can't remember if it was the 600th or 16th century) priests were allowed to marry for a while. I guess it depends on what version you believe - whether Jesus was married or not.

I do remember hearing that, that priests could get married at one point. I do know that you can become a priest if your wife passes away (not sure about divorce). Theres a priest in my area who was once married, but became a priest after his wife passed away. He actually has kids.

If the Nigerian had won, I'm sure we'd see a change in birth control views almost immediately.

One thing I do know for certain however, is that this pope is just as homophobic as the last. On a short list of things terribly wrong about JPII, this was at the top.

I'm all for birth control, and I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later. As for marriage for priests, I don't think that's going to happen. What they teach is that everyone in life has a vocation. You can either get married and raise a family or devote you life to God by becoming a priest, a nun, a brother, etc. So there really is no need for marriage, as their vocation is already being fulfilled. Remember, brothers and sisters are also not allowed to marry for that same reason.

Actually, I beg to disagree here a bit. Not only is it the devotion factor for priests and nuns, but priests are supposed to be representatives of Christ who never married (although there is a segment of Catholics more and more who are believing he in fact did marry Mary Magdoline [sp?]).

As for brothers and sisters never marrying - that's due to genetics - not good unless you want a much higher risk of birth defects, etc..

I haven't heard anything like that about Catholics, but yeah, to me, the word being "C H R I S T ian" means the belief as Christ being the Messiah. Hence, Jews still waiting for the evidence of a Messiah and still following the old testament. Muslims believe in Jesus Christ, but only as one of the prophets like Abraham, Mohammed, etc.. While Buddists, etc. don't believe in Christ at all.

Geez - who ARE you talking to? (I'm not being sarcastic, just really wondering cuz that's really out there from what I've ever discussed with anyone and I've had tons of Catholic friends - I grew up in an Italian/Portuguese neighbourhood!)

I've heard of many Christian churches proclaiming Catholics to not be Christians. Because we worship Mary and saints, I guess.
Well, believing in what Jesus taught is what differentiates Christians from non-Christians. But Jesus was a real person, whether he was Messiah or not.... he was crucified. If he came back or not is up to you.

As for brothers and sisters never marrying - that's due to genetics - not good unless you want a much higher risk of birth defects, etc..

Monks and Nuns.
Monks and Nuns.





....I know, thats not the correct termonology for brothers, but it was just to make the point.

I think they're allowed to wear gym shoes, especially for such a hiking enthusiast as Karol. ;) One my favorite pictures of him, too.


It really is beautiful - the background and him against it with the rocks - very serene. Its the epitome of a picture saying a thousand words.

I do remember hearing that, that priests could get married at one point. I do know that you can become a priest if your wife passes away (not sure about divorce). Theres a priest in my area who was once married, but became a priest after his wife passed away. He actually has kids.

If the Nigerian had won, I'm sure we'd see a change in birth control views almost immediately.

One thing I do know for certain however, is that this pope is just as homophobic as the last. On a short list of things terribly wrong about JPII, this was at the top.

I think they can (marry after being widowed - but not divorced). I know women can be nuns after becoming widowed.

Yeah, it would have been nice to see Arinze get in. Well, if this guy doesn't serve too long, maybe still a chance in the not too distant future (and not I'm killing him off just yet :lol: ).
Yeah, unfortunately, JPII wasn't more liberal in his views. But maybe if he had been, with everything else he did, it might have scared the elders of the church too much. They're just hoping this guy will help pull it together (again, let your priests marry for God's sake).

Actually, I beg to disagree here a bit. Not only is it the devotion factor for priests and nuns, but priests are supposed to be representatives of Christ who never married (although there is a segment of Catholics more and more who are believing he in fact did marry Mary Magdoline [sp?]).

As for brothers and sisters never marrying - that's due to genetics - not good unless you want a much higher risk of birth defects, etc..

Like barwars stated, I meant brothers and sisters in the terms of nuns and their male counterparts (Not exactly monks, I don't remember the whole breakdown right now, but they aren't the same). Though, monks also don't marry. Once again, because their vocation is already being fulfilled, so there's no point in marriage.

I've heard of many Christian churches proclaiming Catholics to not be Christians. Because we worship Mary and saints, I guess.
Well, believing in what Jesus taught is what differentiates Christians from non-Christians. But Jesus was a real person, whether he was Messiah or not.... he was crucified. If he came back or not is up to you.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of these "extremist" Christian groups - more Evangelical. I have an "acquaintance" (I just can't warm up to her) that's one and she has some pretty strange views frankly. We got into a discussion about homosexuality and when I starting siting the scientific evidence, she started disputing THAT! She doesn't believe in a lot of what medical science has found - even in healthcare - even if its been proven over and over again. But she believes in homopathic stuff, crystals, pyramids, and other holistics that have no basis to them. I usually end up just shutting my mouth, shaking my head and dropping it. You can't reason with some people.:faint:

The photograph posted does have a gorgeous background. Such a vivid scenery.

Why do you think he visited Poland so much? ;)

Monks and Nuns.
Monks and Nuns.





....I know, thats not the correct termonology for brothers, but it was just to make the point.



ooooohhhh o.k. - I'm with ya now!!! O.k. - 86 the last comment then and refer back to the first one!! :lol:

It's fine to debate and disagree. The moderators respect that. I just don't think they like the continious arguing and fights.

Oh I know - that's actually why I worded it that way - just want everyone to know I"m keeping this one good terms, and just a discussion. Also, whenever I say that, it means I don't entirely disagree - just certain point(s). :D

Actually, I love debating - I can't stand fighting - there should be no reason to!!!

Why do you think he visited Poland so much? ;)


It was his homeland. It would be like you coming back to the U.S. to visit your family and friends as much as you could.

It was his homeland. It would be like you coming back to the U.S. to visit your family and friends as much as you could.

Actually, Poland's my homeland too. :D

Actually, Poland's my homeland too. :D


Thar ya go!!! Pole Power!! I figured - I have a friend that has a bzillion "z" "y" and "w"'s in his name too!! :lol:

Actually, Poland's my homeland too. :D

Now things make a lot more sense. (I don't mean that negatively.)

If the Nigerian had won, I'm sure we'd see a change in birth control views almost immediately.


As much as I'd like for that to happen in the Catholic Church, I highly doubt it would have happened if the Nigerian became pope. I read he was quite conservative just like John Paul II.

As much as I'd like for that to happen in the Catholic Church, I highly doubt it would have happened if the Nigerian became pope. I read he was quite conservative just like John Paul II.

True. I also heard however that he would do anything to help stop the spread of AIDS.