I remember reading on various sitcom websites that if Caroll O'Connor and Norman Lear had never settled their disputes in 1974,the writers of "All in the Family" would have killed off the character of Archie Bunker. They were toying with the idea of possibly having Stretch Cunningham move into 704 Houser Street to help Edith,Mike and Gloria make ends meet. They were also thinking of eventually having Edith get involved with another man possibly a black man or another man who was a bigot like Archie (but having a
different personality than Archie). For the longest time I thought the show would never have gotten by without its star,but I recently saw "Edith's Friend" and was amazed at the wonderful chemistry Jean Stapleton had with the actor who played her cousin Roy (Edith and Roy had a romantic but platonic relationship as kids). Although Edith was truly and deeply in love with Archie,no matter how mean he was to her...I can now see the show lasting for at least a season or two without Archie. I wrote down possible plot twist options the writers could have used...




Edith could have gotten romantically involved with another man who was a bigot like Archie yet possesed a different personality than Archie.

Edith could have gotten romantically involved with a man who was liberal and conservative (politically the exact opposite of Archie) yet equally outspoken and uncouth as Archie.

Edith could have gotten involved in a romantic relationship with a black man.

Edith could have gotten romantically involved with Stretch Cunningham.

Edith could have moved in with cousin Maude.

Irene Lorenzo could have divorced Frank Lorenzo and moved in with Edith,Mike and Gloria to help them make ends meet.


What does everybody consider the most workable plotline if Archie had been killed off? I know there will be some people on this board who may think the show would never have lasted any length of time without Archie. There may also be some people who may think my ideas are silly. I welcome feedback of any kind. Thank you in advance for your input! Sincerely,Steve.

I think that no matter what they would try to pull off, it would fail without Carrol O'Connor - he's what held that whole show together. You just can't lose the central character (after he had been on that long especially). I hated the episodes he didn't appear in.

IMO, Archie just HAD to be there (as with Edith as far as I was concerned - I stopped watching once she left - actually even a short while before that).

It would had been a different show but I do believe it would had stayed on a little longer if they would had killed off Archie Bunker. In the 74-75 season the three part episode on Archie's Missing was still very funny and tearful as well when Edith realized that Archie was missing. Jean Stapleton, Rob Reiner and Sally Struthers held their own without Carroll O'Connor being there.

The show would have suffered a quick death. Their was no All In The Family without Carroll O'Connor.

I remember reading on various sitcom websites that if Caroll O'Connor and Norman Lear had never settled their disputes in 1974,the writers of "All in the Family" would have killed off the character of Archie Bunker. They were toying with the idea of possibly having Stretch Cunningham move into 704 Houser Street to help Edith,Mike and Gloria make ends meet. They were also thinking of eventually having Edith get involved with another man possibly a black man or another man who was a bigot like Archie (but having a
different personality than Archie). For the longest time I thought the show would never have gotten by without its star,but I recently saw "Edith's Friend" and was amazed at the wonderful chemistry Jean Stapleton had with the actor who played her cousin Roy (Edith and Roy had a romantic but platonic relationship as kids). Although Edith was truly and deeply in love with Archie,no matter how mean he was to her...I can now see the show lasting for at least a season or two without Archie. I wrote down possible plot twist options the writers could have used...




Edith could have gotten romantically involved with another man who was a bigot like Archie yet possesed a different personality than Archie.

Edith could have gotten romantically involved with a man who was liberal and conservative (politically the exact opposite of Archie) yet equally outspoken and uncouth as Archie.

Edith could have gotten involved in a romantic relationship with a black man.

Edith could have gotten romantically involved with Stretch Cunningham.

Edith could have moved in with cousin Maude.

Irene Lorenzo could have divorced Frank Lorenzo and moved in with Edith,Mike and Gloria to help them make ends meet.


What does everybody consider the most workable plotline if Archie had been killed off? I know there will be some people on this board who may think the show would never have lasted any length of time without Archie. There may also be some people who may think my ideas are silly. I welcome feedback of any kind. Thank you in advance for your input! Sincerely,Steve.



Edith Bunker as a lead character?-LOL You really got to be kidding me. There would have nothing to do with the plot. The show would have been over with a capital O if Archie was killed off.

Thats like saying , "lets do Cheers, without the bar" ;)

Thats like saying , "lets do Cheers, without the bar" ;)

Or Maude without maude

Or Three's Company without John Ritter

or Jeffersons without George and Wheeziee.

or Married with childern without Al Bundy

Archie Bunker was the show, and it never would have survived without him. I don't even enjoy the episodes where he doesn't appear. O'Connor was the engine that drove the show, much like John Ritter on 8 Simple Rules. I also don't think Three's Company would have made it without John Ritter. It was never the same after Suzanne Somers left, but it would have suffered an immediate death without John, in my opinion.

Back on topic...no Archie, no show.

It would probably have been cancelled quickly.
I would not have watched it if Carroll was gone.

I recently saw "Edith's Friend" and was amazed at the wonderful chemistry Jean Stapleton had with the actor who played her cousin Roy (Edith and Roy had a romantic but platonic relationship as kids).

Why would Edith have a romantic relationship with her cousin Roy when they were kids, or at any other time, for that matter? That's disgusting. When was this ever mentioned? I don't remember it.

or Jeffersons without George and Wheeziee.

or Married with childern without Al Bundy

Don't compare that piece of **** show Married with Children to the great All in the Family.

With the Charecter of Archie gone it would have been retitled "Death of a Series".

From my understanding,actor John Amos had some kind of contract dispute,which led to his Good Times character James Evans being killed off that show.But that series continued for a couple more seasons after that.

But even though James had been the bread winner of that family,I suppose John Amos's situation was slightly different from Carroll O'Connor's.I don't know.Maybe the difference is,Archie Bunker had been the main focus of All In The Family.Whereas oldest teenage son JJ seemed to steal the show,particularly with his trademark catchphrase"DYNOMITE",on Good Times. :rolleyes:

The show would have died quickly without Archie. Even the episodes Archie didn't appear in concentrated on Archie (him being missing). The worst episodes of AITF are those that concentrate on Mike and Gloria that Archie doesn't appear or has a small part and even episodes that concentrate on Edith are funny because of Archie's reaction.

If Archie was killed off "All In The Family", the show would of never lasted causing ratings to drop and would of been immediately cancelled. Archie was the show, so no Archie, no "All In The Family".

Edith could have gotten romantically involved with a man who was liberal and conservative (politically the exact opposite of Archie) yet equally outspoken and uncouth as Archie.

How can someone be liberal and conservative??? :D

The show wouldn't have worked without Archie. And I'm glad we never had to deal with his departure.

Besides, I don't think Edith Bunker's Place had quite the same ring to it... :D

or Jeffersons without George and Wheeziee.

or Married with childern without Al Bundy


Or Happy Days without Chuck.

If Archie was killed off "All In The Family", the show would of never lasted causing ratings to drop and would of been immediately cancelled. Archie was the show, so no Archie, no "All In The Family".


I agree the fact that the Archie Bunker character was spun off into a successful series afer AITF is enough proof that O'Connor had the charisma and was the main focus of the show.

That said I think it did suffer miserably when Mike and Gloria moved. And the whole scope of the show changed and they did it right with just focusing on Archie's bar.

Although they kind of ruined it at the end. It is kind of annoying (even though we all know TV is fake) when you watch that Edith is to die untimely and the meathead turns out to be a no good jerk that walked out on his family.

Very well said George. ;)
And I beleive that it was Edith,Mike and Gloria that made All In The Family much more memorable than Archie Bunker's Place.
I recall reading somewhere of how when the Archie Bunker series came to an end in 1983,there were no sentimental responses from fans,like there was with the final episodes of M.A.S.H,The Mary Tyler Moore Show and Happy Days.The reason being,by the time Archie Bunker's show drew to a close,the series had evolved into something barely recognizable from it's original format.

Yep. without the rest of the cast all you get is the mediocre "Archie Bunker's Place"

That show needed all four working parts. The scene where Archie and Edith are sitting there alone as M@G left for California would have made for a more memorable and dramatic ending to the show.

Archie was clearly the star and there was no way AITF was too work without him. Just like it wasn't going to work without the rest. and didn't.

Very well said George. ;)
And I beleive that it was Edith,Mike and Gloria that made All In The Family much more memorable than Archie Bunker's Place.
I recall reading somewhere of how when the Archie Bunker series came to an end in 1983,there were no sentimental responses from fans,like there was with the final episodes of M.A.S.H,The Mary Tyler Moore Show and Happy Days.The reason being,by the time Archie Bunker's show drew to a close,the series had evolved into something barely recognizable from it's original format.

I believe it also has to do with the fact that Archie Bunker's Place never got to do a proper farewell episode. There was no buildup of hype and attention for the fact that this would be Archie's swan song. They just cancelled it after the season finished wrapping and that was that. They should have at least allowed them to come back in the fall for a one-hour farewell show.

TV Guide had a special tribute in an August, 1983 issue. Tellingly, though - it was an illustration of the classic All In The Family cast on the cover and the articles focused more on the cultural impact of the Archie character from the glory days of AITF.