I will preface by saying everyone has a right to be optimistic if they feel that way. The ABC upfront is on May 17, and we will probably not hear anything official until then, but here is the evidence as I have gathered on the future of 8 Simple Rules. Everyone here should read it, and draw their own conclusions, and let us all know what you think. Let's all sit like a jury, and decide what we think may happen to 8SR based on this evidence :

1. The ratings have been mostly low all year. It had a period from a "Very CJ Christmas" until "CJ's real Dad" when they ratings recovered somewhat, but just a little better. The past few weeks of one new episode and some repeats the ratings have dropped off again. Last I saw the show was rated about the 81st show for the season.

2. It was erroneously reported on futon critic and I believe in a section of futures in natpe.org that the show was being sold for syndication for Fall 2007. I have confirmed from several executives at Buena Vista TV (the ABC syndication company) that 8SR is not being sold for syndication, and it will not be unless it gets a fourth season. They said they need 100 episodes. This is a cold fact. The show is not being sold for syndication right now.

3. Kaley Cuoco is going to co-host the View. It was originally thought she would co-host in May during the upfront time for ABC. It would be likely they would not have her around in NYC at that time if her show was being cancelled. We then found out she would be co-hosting the week of April 18. A full month before ABC's upfront.

4. The network has totally and completely stopped promoting the show. It used to run promos for the show, especially on Fridays. Although the network is promoting their new shows extensively they still run some promos for According to Jim and Hope and Faith. I have not seen a promo for 8SR in over a month. This includes weeks of new shows and repeats.

5. Now a key piece of evidence. The season finale was originally scheduled for April 1. The network then ordered two additional episodes, and the season finale was moved back to May 6. It was then moved back to April 29. The May sweeps start April 28. At least it was still part of May sweeps. The season finale is now out of May sweeps. It is scheduled for April 15. According to Jim, Hope and Faith, George Lopez and My Wife and Kids all have season finales in the May sweeps period. Rodney, Less Than Perfect and now 8SR all have season finales out of the May sweeps. Last year, I'm With Her, Married to the Kellys and It's All Relative all had their season finales moved up out of May sweeps and got cancelled. To be fair it was reported that Life With Bonnie had its finale out of May sweeps and was renewed after its first season. Also, all the shows except George Lopez have one hour season finales. All the shows out of the sweeps have half hour season finales.

6. There seems to be a buzz among TV critics that 8SR is on the bubble. TV Guide reported that it could be axed.

7. ABC has shown almost all the shows from season three in reruns already. They would need to show all the shows for a third time in order to keep it going all summer.

8. There is also talk among TV critics that ABC may cut their sitcoms from 8 to 6 this coming season. Everything has changed at ABC since the success of Desperate Housewifes and Lost. They seem to be searching for the next hit. Last year at this time they were a network that was floundering and just willing to renew anything half decent. Now with the success of Desperate Housewifes they seem to be willing to take chances and look towards new shows to find hits. That is what I have read. It also has been evidenced by their promoting of their new shows such as Jake In Progress, Blind Justice, Grey's Anatomy and Eyes. The network has become more ambitious than last year. They are more daring since they got the taste of success from Desperate Housewifes.

9. Kelly Ripa has already announced Hope and Faith has been renewed and still nothing on 8 SR. Even though the ratings are low for George Lopez and My Wife and Kids, these shows will almost certainly not be cancelled. They are already being sold for syndication and 8SR is not.

Look at these facts and tell us what you think. Is ABC giving us a message ? What do you think the shows chances are ? Feel free to dispute this evidence and tell us why it is wrong.

Its mostly just media-hype, sure you can tell us that 8SR finale was moved and is now outside May Sweeps, but unless you were the ABC exec that made the decision we have no idea why it was moved, not everything is as simple as "Its cancelled, just air it any time"

ABC doesn't own "George Lopez," and so McPherson and company have no reason to care whether it gets sold for syndication or not.

Yeah, but the show is already being sold for syndication. There must already be an agreement in place that says ABC will keep in on for 100 episodes. I think George Lopez being back is a done deal.

Guys, I hate to bring more bad news but look at these ratings from Friday night :

It was a primetime sweep, as CBS' basketball began the night in first with a 7.6/14. NBC was second with the 6.5/12 for "Dateline." ABC was third with "It's the Easter Beagle, Charlie Brown" (4.3/8) and "8 Simple Rules" (3.3/6).

I do realize it was a repeat, but that rating has to be the lowest rating in 8 Simple Rules history. They couldn't even hold the audience from the Easter Beagle. This also had to be the lowest rating for any show on ABC, CBS or NBC this week.

It is just a heartbreaking situation to me. Watching this show and the ratings are like watching a sick friend on life support waiting for them to pull the plug. I wish it were different, but the situation is getting hopeless. :(

Guys, I hate to bring more bad news but look at these ratings from Friday night :

It was a primetime sweep, as CBS' basketball began the night in first with a 7.6/14. NBC was second with the 6.5/12 for "Dateline." ABC was third with "It's the Easter Beagle, Charlie Brown" (4.3/8) and "8 Simple Rules" (3.3/6).

I do realize it was a repeat, but that rating has to be the lowest rating in 8 Simple Rules history. They couldn't even hold the audience from the Easter Beagle. This also had to be the lowest rating for any show on ABC, CBS or NBC this week.

It is just a heartbreaking situation to me. Watching this show and the ratings are like watching a sick friend on life support waiting for them to pull the plug. I wish it were different, but the situation is getting hopeless. :(

Uhhh the other TGIF shows Hope & Faith and Less Than Perfect were NEW episodes and were ALSO in the 3 ratings. I think Zap2it made a mistake because I see a 3.8/6 for 8SR.

I've never seen you talk anything about the show, just the ratings. And I'm frankly getting tired of you making threads to just make your statement over and over again, not only here but on other boards, too.

ABC and Touchstone are smart enough to know that this show only needs one more season for syndication. They will in someway bring the show back. Be it in the fall or mid-season. They only need 24 more episodes for syndication, and I know they will bring it back to get that. I'm sure Riff would understand this. And he is right about George Lopez. It is owned by Warner Bros., so why would ABC/Touchstone care to get that show into syndicaton? I'm sure that will return, though.

Uhhh the other TGIF shows Hope & Faith and Less Than Perfect were NEW episodes and were ALSO in the 3 ratings. I think Zap2it made a mistake because I see a 3.8/6 for 8SR.

I've never seen you talk anything about the show, just the ratings. And I'm frankly getting tired of you making threads to just make your statement over and over again, not only here but on other boards, too.

ABC and Touchstone are smart enough to know that this show only needs one more season for syndication. They will in someway bring the show back. Be it in the fall or mid-season. They only need 24 more episodes for syndication, and I know they will bring it back to get that. I'm sure Riff would understand this. And he is right about George Lopez. It is owned by Warner Bros., so why would ABC/Touchstone care to get that show into syndicaton? I'm sure that will return, though.

Well, Mr. Optimist you are wrong again. I told you I wrote to several Buena Vista Executives and they all said 8SR is not up for syndication now, and they doubt it will be. One of them told me they will look into cable options for this show, because they doubt they will have enough episodes for full syndication of the show. What does that tell you ? Read between the lines. The show is not up for syndication, and the show was removed from the May sweeps. How can anyone think anything but cancellation for this show ? Except for that one Life With Bonnie exception every other show removed by ABC from May sweeps has always been cancelled. What happend with Life with Bonnie was it probably was a last minute insertion in the fall lineup, because a pilot they were eying did not make it. Other than that I am sure they would have cancelled that show, too.

Also, Less Than Perfect also needs only one more season to get to syndication. Why is it everyone thinks 8SR will definitely be renewed for syndication purposes, yet everyone thinks Less Than Perfect is definitely cancelled. What is the difference between the two situations ?

As to being concerned with ratings. Of course, that is what I am concerned about. That is all the network that holds the shows fate in its hands cares about. I think you are thinking in the pre-Desperate Housewifes mode. This network is now looking for the next hit, and will probably cut their sitcoms to six next year. If they do 8SR will probably never make the cut. Wake up and smell the coffee. The handwriting is on the wall.

The reason I keep stating my case is to try and get people to write to the ABC people and save the show. I am doing this to be proactive instead of lying to myself and convincing myself like you that the show is definitely being renewed. I do it as to try to help save the show, not tear it down.

May 17 is coming soon. We will see who is right. You may not think so, but I hope you are right, even though I doubt that will happen.

Well, Mr. Optimist you are wrong again. I told you I wrote to several Buena Vista Executives and they all said 8SR is not up for syndication now, and they doubt it will be. One of them told me they will look into cable options for this show, because they doubt they will have enough episodes for full syndication of the show. What does that tell you ? Read between the lines. The show is not up for syndication, and the show was removed from the May sweeps. How can anyone think anything but cancellation for this show ? Except for that one Life With Bonnie exception every other show removed by ABC from May sweeps has always been cancelled. What happend with Life with Bonnie was it probably was a last minute insertion in the fall lineup, because a pilot they were eying did not make it. Other than that I am sure they would have cancelled that show, too.

Also, Less Than Perfect also needs only one more season to get to syndication. Why is it everyone thinks 8SR will definitely be renewed for syndication purposes, yet everyone thinks Less Than Perfect is definitely cancelled. What is the difference between the two situations ?

As to being concerned with ratings. Of course, that is what I am concerned about. That is all the network that holds the shows fate in its hands cares about. I think you are thinking in the pre-Desperate Housewifes mode. This network is now looking for the next hit, and will probably cut their sitcoms to six next year. If they do 8SR will probably never make the cut. Wake up and smell the coffee. The handwriting is on the wall.

The reason I keep stating my case is to try and get people to write to the ABC people and save the show. I am doing this to be proactive instead of lying to myself and convincing myself like you that the show is definitely being renewed. I do it as to try to help save the show, not tear it down.

May 17 is coming soon. We will see who is right. You may not think so, but I hope you are right, even though I doubt that will happen.


Mr. Pessimist, I don't care who you wrote to. If it didn't come from Steve McPherson, then I'm not believing it. He makes the decisions. And you never answer my questions. I am asking again: where were you before this season (actually before January)? Why don't you ever talk about the show and just the ratings? And I think you are new to the rating game. I saw where you didn't know what ratings were the overnights and what ratings were the fast nationals. Thefutoncritic.com does NOT post the final ratings, nor does zap2it. They post fast nationals. Berman posts the top market ratings, which are the overnights. I get my final numbers (updated fast nationals) from ABC ratings dept. which is directly from Nielsen, which I use for my 8 Simple Rules website. Don't believe me? You can email me and I will show you documented proof, which I can not post here for the public. I have been around long enough to know the TV/business game.

There have been other cases besides Life with Bonnie. George Lopez after season one is another case. And if the show doesn't make it next season and doesn't have 100, they can still get to local syndication. There have been numerous shows that have had 100 episodes and still went into local syndication, like What's Happening!! Though, that might take longer. What's Happening!! was from 76-79, and I think it went to locals in 1983, but it could have been earlier.

Why is 8 Simple Rules more safe than Less Than Perfect? Because 8 Simple Rules would draw more viewers in syndication, that's why. I'm not saying ABC will can Less Than Perfect for sure, but it is more likely of cancelation than 8 Simple Rules. Looking at ABC's comedy pilots, I don't see any becoming a big draw. As of now, I think only three are even worth airing (Freddie Prinze, Bobby Cannon and Fred Savage). There dramas look much better, again. If I were to guess, I think Jake in Progress and Blind Justice will not be returning, as they haven't performed as well as ABC would like have, after lots of promotion. I think Rodney, despite airing after According to Jim, will not return. George Lopez will probably move there. If you recall, GLo aired there once in December and built on Jim. Both were new episodes, too. And Complete Savages is done, I doubt the remaining four will even air now.

And if you are so worried about the fate of the show, why are you arguing with me? Go ahead and keep emailing them. I don't think the show is in danger. It will be in someway on the schedule for 05-06, whether it be the fall or mid-season.

We still have a critical month to go in April. See how Eyes and Grey's Anatomy start off and Jake and Blind finish. Even though, they will have nothing to do with 8SR's fate.

Oh and in response to these:
3. Kaley Cuoco is going to co-host the View. It was originally thought she would co-host in May during the upfront time for ABC. It would be likely they would not have her around in NYC at that time if her show was being cancelled. We then found out she would be co-hosting the week of April 18. A full month before ABC's upfront.

I never said she will be doing The View in May. I was just guessing May. April 18 and May 17, is indeed a month. Doesn't mean she will not be going to NY on May 17. Hasselbeck returns to the view in EARLY May.

4. The network has totally and completely stopped promoting the show. It used to run promos for the show, especially on Fridays. Although the network is promoting their new shows extensively they still run some promos for According to Jim and Hope and Faith. I have not seen a promo for 8SR in over a month. This includes weeks of new shows and repeats.

The show has been in repeats since March 4. The March 4 episode did indeed have promos. I saw them on Friday morning. The episode before that, February 18 had tons of promos featuring the midget dad of C.J. You will see promos again starting probably Wednesday or Thursday for the next new episode (April 1).

My Wife & Kids has been new a lot, and there hasn;t been ANY promos for that. George Lopez has been limited, too. According to Jim is always promoted. Hope & Faith lately has only been promoted Fridays, though I think I saw one on Thursday night, since it was a new episode this week.

Well, we can go back and forth, but I just don't see the future as you do. I have said numerous times that I hope I am wrong, but this show is in trouble. Incidentally, I have e-mailed Stephen McPherson a couple of times, and just received a thanks for writing response. We both know he will never tip his hand to us about what the network plans are.

I do admit to you I am new to this forum. Not for lack of interest, but just because I just discovered it recently. Please do not ever question my love of this show. If I did not love it,I would not waste my time here. I have e-mailed just about every ABC/Touchstone and some Buena Vista executives (some two or three times) to try and state my case for renewing the show. I have tried to let them know how much we want it in syndication and tried to use the John Ritter 30 episodes as a selling point for them. The reason I keep writing these things over and over is to try and get others to write as well. It certainly could not hurt to let them know that people out here love the show, and want it back.

As far as discussing the show I really don't see much discussion here or anywhere else about the show itself. If you would like to discuss the show start a thread on it, and I will be glad to discuss it. I have even every single episode. Most of them more than once. I have not missed a single new episode or repeat this year. I have told ABC what a great job I think Katey Sagal has done in stepping into the lead, and I also have told them about how I think Kaley Cuoco is one of the brighest young stars around. I do not know what else to say about that.

To me most shows( I will admit you have pointed out a few exceptions) that are removed from the May sweeps are not renewed. It seems like you always want to give a pass to 8SR when the other shows are in trouble when these things happen. Most people think Less Than Perfect is going to be cancelled because it has bad ratings, the network has stopped promoting it, and it has its season finale on April 15. Yet when the same things happend to 8SR you insist it is not in trouble. By the way Bernie Mac has had its season finale also moved to April, and most people think that show will be cancelled, too.

I just think you are looking at ABC in a pre-Desperate Housewifes mode. Everything has changed on the network since that show and to a lesser extent Lost. The network is much more ambitious now, and will be willing to cancel shows, that would have been renewed in the past, because they are looking for the next hit. If 8SR were in the exact same position as now and this were last year I think it would be renewed. With the new boldness of the network since a couple of hits I am not so sure. Look how they have promoted their new shows. Looking for the next hit.

By the way, Grey's Anatomy and Eyes have gotten terrific write ups, and with the time period they are in will probably get great ratings. I wouldn't be surprised if they are back next year. I also have heard that ABC will probably cut their sitcoms to about 6 from the current 8.

Once again, I hope you are right. I want the show renewed. I just don't see it happening. I think they will probably take the 3 seasons and put it on ABC Family instead of syndication. They used one season of Two of A Kind (Olsen twins show) on that channel for a while. They certainly could put three seasons of 8 SR on it.

By the way, Grey's Anatomy and Eyes have gotten terrific write ups, and with the time period they are in will probably get great ratings. I wouldn't be surprised if they are back next year. I also have heard that ABC will probably cut their sitcoms to about 6 from the current 8.

Eyes is not given an easy timeslot. It's up against CSI: NY and Law & Order. That is a tough task. Even though it has a strong lead-in with new episodes of Lost and Alias, Alias is a bit down because of American Idol, so that might cut Eyes' audience, but I think it will do modest. Look for big numbers though for Grey's Anatomy in the coveted post-DH slot. I don't think Lost is a lesser extent to DH. Lost puts up the biggest start-up ratings for a night on any network (besides Tuesday's AI of course), unheard of for a drama. It also airs reruns on the weeks it is not a new episode, so its overall ratings are more down than it should be, as DH only has had one rerun in its timeslot all year. Anyay, I like both shows, excellent writing on both. They are looking for the next hit, but it is again in the drama field. Which doesn't effect 8SR really, because 8SR will either be on Fridays next season or to start Sundays or something, and they wouldn't put new dramas there. If Grey holds more of DH's audience than Boston Legal, I think you might see Grey stick to that slot next season and they'll have Boston Legal Tuesdays at 10, but they have to give better support than Rodney, which is why According to Jim/George Lopez combo would work. And to beat the AI factor, they should go with a drama Tuesdays at 8, similar to Lost, to compete with AI. Of course the drama won't beat it, but should still do decent. I think that drama should be Invasion, which sounds very interesting.

Don't listen to mumbo jumbo from these TV writers/critics. They also said last season that ABC would probably have 10-12 sitcoms this season, yet they had 8. And the year before that, they said ABC would be cutting, and they added more. I think they will keep eight sitcoms next fall. Just that 2 or 3 curent ones will not be around and new ones will be added.

I will say this. I will be here on May 17. I hope to start a new thread called Bash Superbowl. I want to be wrong. I will invite everybody to take a shot at me for being wrong, and I will be delighted that I was wrong. I am willing to take the abuse, and have my favorite show saved. I really hope you are right.

ABC's comedy slate for 05-06 -- most are one camera shows it seems, so maybe a Thursday night block is possible.
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=2395283#post2395283

ABC's drama slate for 05-06: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=135757

With Jake in Progress being mostly a ratings failure so far, are you sure they would want to open a whole night of sitcoms on Thursdays ?

With Jake in Progress being mostly a ratings failure so far, are you sure they would want to open a whole night of sitcoms on Thursdays ?

Why not? They're not going anywhere with Extreme Makeover and Primetime Thursday. ABC will be more competitive with something like this on Thursdays...

8:00PM Jake in Progress
8:30PM Emily's Reasons Why Not
9:00PM Freddie Prinze Jr.
9:30PM Crumbs
10:00PM Boston Legal

The only danger is three new shows in a row. 8-10pm would be one camera sitcoms only. I doubt they'll air ANY one camera sitcoms on Fridays.