I always just assumed he died.

I always just assumed he died.


Honestly Brian, i think that's what viewers were supposed to assume

To my understanding..didnt Florida divorce him?

To my understanding..didnt Florida divorce him?



I don't think a divorce was ever mentioned

I don't think a divorce was ever mentioned
Really! I thought I read somewhere that she left Carl and divorced him..oh well my mistake since I am not familiar with all the latter season episodes of Good Times...

They did mention that Carl was sick so he and Florida stayed in the south. That was the last we heard of Carl.

They did mention that Carl was sick so he and Florida stayed in the south. That was the last we heard of Carl.
Okay, that clears everything..thanks Brian :)

I think what essentially happened is that the actor who played Carl (Moses Gunn) was fired from the show before Season 5 started since Esther Rolle opted not to return. They couldn't have had Carl around for Season 5 without Florida unless Florida was said to have been killed off, so they sent both away to the South. Since there was no Florida, there could not be a Carl. If Esther Rolle had stayed with the show for Season 5, I think Moses Gunn (Carl) would have also. I don't recall there being any negative reaction to his being put on the show. He clearly couldn't replace John Amos, but he might have had a place on the show if he had been given ample screen time to develop.

I suspect that Moses Gunn wasn't too pleased with his firing (would any of us blame him???) so he probably opted not to return once Esther Rolle did in Season 6. Rather than kill him off or have Florida divorce him, the producers chose to ignore him altogether since they were trying to get the show back on track. I think the producers thought that too much tragedy or sadness (and not enough COMEDY) was making the show a drag to watch. There was no clean, tidy way to handle Carl so they ignored the character altogether.

I don't know if this is true or not; I'm just piecing things together. It's what makes sense to me...

Anyone know different???

Ed

I think what essentially happened is that the actor who played Carl (Moses Gunn) was fired from the show before Season 5 started since Esther Rolle opted not to return. They couldn't have had Carl around for Season 5 without Florida unless Florida was said to have been killed off, so they sent both away to the South. Since there was no Florida, there could not be a Carl. If Esther Rolle had stayed with the show for Season 5, I think Moses Gunn (Carl) would have also. I don't recall there being any negative reaction to his being put on the show. He clearly couldn't replace John Amos, but he might have had a place on the show if he had been given ample screen time to develop.

I suspect that Moses Gunn wasn't too pleased with his firing (would any of us blame him???) so he probably opted not to return once Esther Rolle did in Season 6. Rather than kill him off or have Florida divorce him, the producers chose to ignore him altogether since they were trying to get the show back on track. I think the producers thought that too much tragedy or sadness (and not enough COMEDY) was making the show a drag to watch. There was no clean, tidy way to handle Carl so they ignored the character altogether.

I don't know if this is true or not; I'm just piecing things together. It's what makes sense to me...

Anyone know different???

Ed



I don't think Moses Gunn character was supposed to replace the John Amos character, he was just added to the show to play the role of Florida's new Boyfriend. I think everyone knew At the time that the James Evans character could not be replace since he was on the show for 3 straight seasons.

I don't think Moses Gunn character was supposed to replace the John Amos character, he was just added to the show to play the role of Florida's new Boyfriend. I think everyone knew At the time that the James Evans character could not be replace since he was on the show for 3 straight seasons.

He was meant to fill the hole that John Amos left since Esther Rolle wanted to have a male figure. He was to be the new male figure, not the new father. No one can replace a father, or a mother either. John Amos was irreplacable.

But does my theory about his departure make sense at all? I'm surprised what you commented on was on how he wasn't there to replace John Amos. What about the other stuff?

Ed

He was meant to fill the hole that John Amos left since Esther Rolle wanted to have a male figure. He was to be the new male figure, not the new father. No one can replace a father, or a mother either. John Amos was irreplacable.

But does my theory about his departure make sense at all? I'm surprised what you commented on was on how he wasn't there to replace John Amos. What about the other stuff?

Ed



Yeah the other things you said made sense about the Carl character. There was no way he could exist without Florida being on the show.

Solomon, how could you say Carl wasn't created to replace James? Of course he was.

Solomon, how could you say Carl wasn't created to replace James? Of course he was.


I disagree, there was no way the James Evans character was going to be replaced. He was on the show too long. CArl was just an addition to the show not a replacement.

I disagree, there was no way the James Evans character was going to be replaced. He was on the show too long. CArl was just an addition to the show not a replacement.

Come on Solomon. Let's not let this evolve into another squabble like whether Good Times is a spin-off or not. The truth of the matter is, if John Amos had never been fired and James Evans was never killed off, the Carl character would never have surfaced. Since James' death left a hole in that family's nucleus, Carl was brought on to try to fill it. Doesn't that qualify as a replacement of sorts? You can't really say he was James Evans # 2, since a father is irreplacable, but clearly, there was a void left with the character's death, and Carl was created in an attempt to fill it.

Ed

Come on Solomon. Let's not let this evolve into another squabble like whether Good Times is a spin-off or not. The truth of the matter is, if John Amos had never been fired and James Evans was never killed off, the Carl character would never have surfaced. Since James' death left a hole in that family's nucleus, Carl was brought on to try to fill it. Doesn't that qualify as a replacement of sorts? You can't really say he was James Evans # 2, since a father is irreplacable, but clearly, there was a void left with the character's death, and Carl was created in an attempt to fill it.

Ed



I'm not turning this into A DEBATE, i'm just saying I never thought Carl was added to fill the Hole in the show left by John Amos.

I'm not turning this into A DEBATE, i'm just saying I never thought Carl was added to fill the Hole in the show left by John Amos.

So he would've been brought on even if John Amos was still on? :rolleyes:

Even on the E! True Hollywood Story on Good Times, they alluded to how John Amos' absence left a huge gap in the show and that Esther Rolle couldn't fill it, nor could Jimmy Walker or Ja'Net Du Bois.
They also remarked that Esther Rolle was plenty upset (but hey, when was she ever happy?) that she was the head of a household without a father figure, so in an attempt to try to appease her, they brought Carl on.

I even think they said the ratings were slipping at that point and they attributed that to John Amos' role being vacated. They spoke of Moses Gunn's character being the 'band aid' to help bring back the show. If that doesn't qualify as a replacement, I don't know what does.

No way was Carl going to measure up to James, either to the audience or to his family. With James gone, they wanted to bring on someone to be a surrogate father figure for the kids and a husband for Florida, so they created Carl. In that sense he is definitely a replacement, but only in the position that James held, his job as the male role model if you will.

Carl was the show's attempt to bring on a male model for the family (both kids & Florida) in lieu of the absence of James. This was deliberate, and the writers, producers, and the cast have gone on record as saying as such.

Ed

So he would've been brought on even if John Amos was still on? :rolleyes:

Even on the E! True Hollywood Story on Good Times, they alluded to how John Amos' absence left a huge gap in the show and that Esther Rolle couldn't fill it, nor could Jimmy Walker or Ja'Net Du Bois.
They also remarked that Esther Rolle was plenty upset (but hey, when was she ever happy?) that she was the head of a household without a father figure, so in an attempt to try to appease her, they brought Carl on.

I even think they said the ratings were slipping at that point and they attributed that to John Amos' role being vacated. They spoke of Moses Gunn's character being the 'band aid' to help bring back the show. If that doesn't qualify as a replacement, I don't know what does.

No way was Carl going to measure up to James, either to the audience or to his family. With James gone, they wanted to bring on someone to be a surrogate father figure for the kids and a husband for Florida, so they created Carl. In that sense he is definitely a replacement, but only in the position that James held, his job as the male role model if you will.

Carl was the show's attempt to bring on a male model for the family (both kids & Florida) in lieu of the absence of James. This was deliberate, and the writers, producers, and the cast have gone on record as saying as such.

Ed


Well said, I absolutely agree with you.

I think Carl was brought on to be the father figure but Esther Rolle left so it didn't work.

I think Carl was brought on to be the father figure but Esther Rolle left so it didn't work.

Right, which is what was said earlier in this thread. Had she remained with the show, he might have also. I think it was unfortunate timing, that's all...

Ed

Do you think the show would have stayed on track if Carl had remained along with Florida or would ratings still have kept slipping?

Do you think the show would have stayed on track if Carl had remained along with Florida or would ratings still have kept slipping?



I think so because the show finished in the top 30 after season 4.

Do you think the show would have stayed on track if Carl had remained along with Florida or would ratings still have kept slipping?

Well, I attribute the slip in ratings due to Esther Rolle's absence during Season 5, along with the many so-called pre-emptions and timeslot changes. Had she stayed, so would have Carl, and I think there could have been some development on Carl's part that could have made him a viable part of the family. Whether that would have worked is anyone's guess, but I think it might have helped the show last a little longer.

Ed

Do you think the show would have stayed on track if Carl had remained along with Florida or would ratings still have kept slipping?

I think so because the show finished in the top 30 after season 4.

You think so? You answer a two choice 'or' question like that? That's like answering the question "Is it good or bad?" with a "yes". Sometimes it seems you don't fully read what is written. I don't mean to dog on you, but you like to post a lot on these topics and sometimes it's like you pick one sentence out of thirty and expound on it, even if it's not even pertinent to the topic.

I'm not out to dog you though. I think you're a nice person and you try to be helpful. That much is obvious, believe me. But I see other posters on other boards singling you out for attacks, and answering posts like how you did above kind of sets you up for that. Try to take time to actually READ what is there pal. I don't want to see anyone else attacking you. You're a good egg.

Just my suggestion...

Ed

You think so? You answer a two choice 'or' question like that? That's like answering the question "Is it good or bad?" with a "yes". Sometimes it seems you don't fully read what is written. I don't mean to dog on you, but you like to post a lot on these topics and sometimes it's like you pick one sentence out of thirty and expound on it, even if it's not even pertinent to the topic.

I'm not out to dog you though. I think you're a nice person and you try to be helpful. That much is obvious, believe me. But I see other posters on other boards singling you out for attacks, and answering posts like how you did above kind of sets you up for that. Try to take time to actually READ what is there pal. I don't want to see anyone else attacking you. You're a good egg.

Just my suggestion...

Ed




I don't believe the time slot had anything to due with the falling ratings in season 5. It was the addition of Penny, and no Esther Rolle that caused the show to lose a lot of it's adult viewers

It wasn't the addition of Penny that caused the ratings slip, it was the subtraction of Florida and the maturity of JJ.

I thought it was explained in one of the season six episodes that Florida ate Carl.

When Florida returned home in the second episode of the last season, she gives Michael a present and says "Carl and I bought it for you". That is the last mention of him.

Perhaps he died off camera a while before this episode.

With the addition of Keith, the producers probably didn't want another character on the show, so they chose not to have Carl back.

When Florida returned home in the second episode of the last season, she gives Michael a present and says "Carl and I bought it for you". That is the last mention of him.

Perhaps he died off camera a while before this episode.

With the addition of Keith, the producers probably didn't want another character on the show, so they chose not to have Carl back.



I'm going to have to pull the UNEDITED version of Homecoming Part 2 because I don;t remember Florida mentioning Carl at all in season 6.

When Florida returned home in the second episode of the last season, she gives Michael a present and says "Carl and I bought it for you". That is the last mention of him.

Perhaps he died off camera a while before this episode.

With the addition of Keith, the producers probably didn't want another character on the show, so they chose not to have Carl back.



I apologize, I was wrong. Just pulled the episode out of the Archives and Florida does mention Carl's Name. I sen that episode several times and never caught that.