I know this has been said before, but could this be the last gasp? In the season to date ratings, there are only two sitcoms in the top 30. Just 2, and one of those is ending in 3 months. What does this mean? It gets even harder to launch new sitcoms because there is only one timeslot where a sitcom would get a large audience to sample it (Monday at 9:30). Has the situation ever been this bad before? What are the sitcoms you still watch on network tv?

What? There are four in the top 30 - Everybody Loves Raymond, Two and a Half Men, Joey and Will & Grace.

Unless you meant to type top 20, in which case yeah, just ELR and Two and a Half Men.

Actually, both "Joey" and "Will & Grace" have been bumped out of the top 30 and now sit in 31 and 32.

I still have faith in the genre, which is simply undergoing a down cycle. A few well-written sitcoms with good, vivid, non-stereotypical characters, and it will be back on its feet. We don't have to reinvent the wheel or ditch the traditional three-camera format. All we need is for a network executive or two to ignore research and demographics, and focus on characters and stories that are both genuinely funny and non-insulting to the audience's intelligence.

I think every genre takes a downturn once in awhile. Game shows did it too, a couple times at least. Right now, the drama is where it's at. Some of that could be the fault of unimaginative writers and producers of sitcoms. The genre won't bounce back with lame, cookie cutter crap.

damn, I had no idea Joey and W&G were out of the top 30. I was thinking Joey was in the top 20.

If it's any consolation prize, "Desperate Housewives" can be considered a comedy (it won in the comedy catagory at the Golden Globes) and look how big that show is? And frankly, it is probably IMO the best live-action comedic series on TV at the moment with the exception of "Arrested Development" (yes, I know AD's ratings aren't very good... but bad ratings don't mean it's a bad series).

If it's any consolation prize, "Desperate Housewives" can be considered a comedy (it won in the comedy category at the Golden Globes) and look how big that show is? And frankly, it is probably IMO the best live-action comedic series on TV at the moment with the exception of "Arrested Development."

I love "Desperate Housewives" -- it's brilliantly written and acted, and definitely has more than its share of comic moments -- but saying an hour-long prime-time semi-soap is among the best comedic series on TV only illustrates the current weak state of the traditional half-hour sitcom genre.

But, as I've said earlier, things can change. You never know...unbeknownst to us, the next "Seinfeld" or "Frasier" might be on the horizon.

I love "Desperate Housewives" -- it's brilliantly written and acted, and definitely has more than its share of comic moments -- but saying an hour-long prime-time semi-soap is among the best comedic series on TV only illustrates the current weak state of the traditional half-hour sitcom genre..

well, I would argue one of the reasons it's caught on so well because it's not a cliched 30 minute sitcom. It's as if every good sitcom idea has been used up.

Every genre goes through a time when it seems like it will end sooner than later, a few years ago in the 1990's the drama seemed like that. and the sitcoms has done this and bounced back time and time again. Remember back in the 1978-1979 season when there were virtually no new sitcoms getting ratings? By the time the 80-81 season came around sitcoms were the thing again! Its all a cycle. At one point, the drama seemed like it was on its last leg in the 1990's with only a few true hits. It'll come around when good writing and acting is reintroduced.

Every genre goes through a time when it seems like it will end sooner than later, a few years ago in the 1990's the drama seemed like that. and the sitcoms has done this and bounced back time and time again. Remember back in the 1978-1979 season when there were virtually no new sitcoms getting ratings? By the time the 80-81 season came around sitcoms were the thing again! Its all a cycle. At one point, the drama seemed like it was on its last leg in the 1990's with only a few true hits. It'll come around when good writing and acting is reintroduced.


I think it will bounce back. For one thing sitcoms are the most popular in syndication so producers will always try for the new hit. Unfortunately the Western and Variety show for the most part never bounced back. Here's hoping the sitcom doesn't follow their lead.

I think it will bounce back. For one thing sitcoms are the most popular in syndication so producers will always try for the new hit. Unfortunately the Western and Variety show for the most part never bounced back. Here's hoping the sitcom doesn't follow their lead.


You're right, but i think that the western and variety show were pretty much products of thier times. the 50's-60's for Westerns and the 60's, 70's and early 80's for the variety show. They were very popular but ran there course. i think the sitcom is different because in theory they can reinvent themselves for the time they are supposed to represent, the problem is that hollywood seems not to get the fact that they need to be reinvented and haven't tried too.

The Western could only go so far, there wasn't much more they could do. but in there have been some successful westerns in the recent past, EI- Dr. Quinn, Medicine Women and currently HBO's Deadwood.

It does seem like every few years or so someone comes along and tries to revive the western movie genre, but it doesn't hold the America publics attention anymore so it always fails. i think it is because Westerns are a simplisitc genre that requires very little in terms of character development and growth.

The Variety show in the sense of primetime variety with a male and female host singing songs and acting skits is dead, but we have the late-night variety show in SNL which has lasted several decades and MAD TV which now has lasted a decade and a half. so at least we have them, i would like to see a new variety show, maybe CBS or ABC could try to get in the late-night variety show game... or maybe WB... anything but UPN please.

I think the networks have realized they have oversaturated their schedules with reality programs (and practically none of them are going to be the next "Survivor") and they have to start paying more attention to scripted programs. In a season or two, their will be lots more sitcoms to watch, and hopefully enjoy.

Alot of those former sitcom timeslots did go to reality series, originally, but now they're swinging back to dramas- ABC Wednesday 8-10 is a very good example. NBC used to do all sitcoms on Mondays and Wednesdays, now it's almost all dramas.

The sitcom genre will never die (sitcoms and dramas will always be the staple of tv), but this is getting ridiculous. It's not just that the new sitcoms are not working, but the old ones are down dramatically too. Joey and W&G actually rank 33rd and 34th and will likely be out of the top 40 by the end of the season. They do better in adults at 23rd and 20th, but those numbers seem to reflect early season strength as neither are now drawing their season averages on a weekly basis.

Another thing to consider is the TV universe has become so fragmented. You have such competition nowadays from cable TV, and not just HBO and the Sopranos, but everything on the dial from FX to the Discovery Channel, throwing original programs at viewers. It's not like it was a few short years ago when the networks were the only place to go in prime time.

I'm just glad the primetime soap is bouncing back for the time being. There hasn't been a golden age since the early-to-mid 1990s, and now is the perfect time for a rejuvenation.

We have Desperate Housewives leading the pack, with The OC following close behind, and now Point Pleasant. Over at the WB, we have the somewhat successful One Tree Hill, Everwood and Summerland. When the 2005-2006 season comes, I expect some throw-backs to the style of the 1980s soaps, as well as the 1990s ones. The last soap really modeled after the rich, glamor-driven shows of the 1980s was the hugely unsuccessful Titans, but now we have DH, which is basically a slightly richer Knots Landing.

I look forward to more wealthier soaps to join the nets. I'll especially like to see what NBC has to offer, since their biggest success in primetime soaps was without a doubt, Flamingo Road, which aired for only two seasons (1980-1982). I'm also interested in what CBS would give us, considering they gave us Dallas, KL and Falcon Crest. ABC, if Boston Legal dies, I definitely see them making a new soap to go with DH. It'd probably be best to keep on the line of the 1980s shows and maybe come up with something rich, glamorous, exciting, and, well, down right filthy. I'd suggest a series based on the Jackie Collins miniseries Hollywood Wives...

yeah i'm glad the primetime soap is back as well.

The primetime soap is great. The great thing about DH is that multiple viewings are possible- I watched both repeats last night and was hugely entertained. the last time a soap drew the nation's attention like that was back in the glory days of Melrose Place in the third and fourth seasons. Marcia Cross starred in that one too.... concidence? The women's just got "it."

Don't get too attached to Point Pleasant, though. it's doing worse than "north Shore" did, and that was considered a disaster. this week is fell to 3.4 million viewers.

right now sitcoms are not dong very well it could be worst next year we are going to lose the number one Sitcome for the second year in a row if any network will have huge comedy first i thank it ABC Beacuse ABC is trying to stay away from reality game shows and have two huge shows Housewives & Lost even know it a reality show Extream Makeover is doing well even know tuesday belongs to American Idol i say that there the best shot of having a new sitcom right now even know that CBS Monday Night Sitcoms Everbody Loves Raymond is still huge but they are going off the air and Two and the Half Men is almost huge but Raymond gone next year this is there chance SO THERE IS HOPE

I think the networks have realized they have oversaturated their schedules with reality programs (and practically none of them are going to be the next "Survivor") and they have to start paying more attention to scripted programs. In a season or two, their will be lots more sitcoms to watch, and hopefully enjoy.

I hope Reality TV is on it's way out

I'm just glad the primetime soap is bouncing back for the time being. There hasn't been a golden age since the early-to-mid 1990s, and now is the perfect time for a rejuvenation.

We have Desperate Housewives leading the pack, with The OC following close behind, and now Point Pleasant. Over at the WB, we have the somewhat successful One Tree Hill, Everwood and Summerland. When the 2005-2006 season comes, I expect some throw-backs to the style of the 1980s soaps, as well as the 1990s ones. The last soap really modeled after the rich, glamor-driven shows of the 1980s was the hugely unsuccessful Titans, but now we have DH, which is basically a slightly richer Knots Landing.

I look forward to more wealthier soaps to join the nets. I'll especially like to see what NBC has to offer, since their biggest success in primetime soaps was without a doubt, Flamingo Road, which aired for only two seasons (1980-1982). I'm also interested in what CBS would give us, considering they gave us Dallas, KL and Falcon Crest. ABC, if Boston Legal dies, I definitely see them making a new soap to go with DH. It'd probably be best to keep on the line of the 1980s shows and maybe come up with something rich, glamorous, exciting, and, well, down right filthy. I'd suggest a series based on the Jackie Collins miniseries Hollywood Wives...

I'm glad that primetime soaps are back. I think of DH as the Dallas of the 21st Century, cause it's just as well written and acted as Dallas was(at least the first 6 years) ;)

DH gives daytime soap fans hope, cause networks were about to give up on them a few years ago, and dump most of them for game shows :rolleyes:

As much as a "soap" DH is.... it's twice as much a comedy.

Not a sitcom.... but a comedy.

I guarantee DH wouldn't be half the success it is had it not been for the strong comedic elements.

As much as a "soap" DH is.... it's twice as much a comedy.

Not a sitcom.... but a comedy.

I guarantee DH wouldn't be half the success it is had it not been for the strong comedic elements.

I agree. I think some of the best comedic series of the past five years (save Arrested Development and animated series) were "Dramedies", like DH, Popular and Sex And The City. There was the right mixture of humor and seriousness in all three shows that brought in the fan of both genres for me.

I agree. I think some of the best comedic series of the past five years (save Arrested Development and animated series) were "Dramedies", like DH, Popular and Sex And The City. There was the right mixture of humor and seriousness in all three shows that brought in the fan of both genres for me.

i agree, look at "Ally McBeal" which had a perfect blend of comedy and drama and became one of the biggest hits of the 1990s.

i agree, look at "Ally McBeal" which had a perfect blend of comedy and drama and became one of the biggest hits of the 1990s.

yep, I think that was part of Ally's appeal, you could laugh one minute then cry the next... probably best evident in the episode where Billy died

DH is definitely more soap than comedy to me, but I never doubt that if it weren't for the laughs, it wouldn't be successful.

Hopefully, this can open the door to more serious drama.

DH is definitely more soap than comedy to me, but I never doubt that if it weren't for the laughs, it wouldn't be successful.

Hopefully, this can open the door to more serious drama.

personally, I think the lighter edge to DH is helping it in reruns, whereas shows like OC and One Tree Hill which are heavier in the dramatic department never air repeats. Saturday reruns of DH are actually getting decent ratings, people wanna see these episodes a second time.

personally, I think the lighter edge to DH is helping it in reruns, whereas shows like OC and One Tree Hill which are heavier in the dramatic department never air repeats. Saturday reruns of DH are actually getting decent ratings, people wanna see these episodes a second time.
Exactly. The DVD sales this September are going to be phenomenal.