"well i'll be a series regular"

fifth season opens with a bang. a great production number. production is literal as all the cast, the office staff, and production personnel (minus our heroine) do a major song and dance number welcoming in the new season. promising to be on every tuesday night. well, we know that prophecy was wrong....
as it is finished, maddie walks out to join them.

"baby hayes" is his name. and his tour guide to the new world is jerome. a gentle man trying to teach baby hayes all about the world and his parents. (here, we learn what we all knew anyway, but maddie never admitted).
the bad part was that just as jerome was leaving, he gets a phone call. he is told that baby hayes will not be dave and maddie's baby.

this episode is one of the best. we saw imaginative storytelling, numerous musical and dance numbers, clever dialog, and then the emotional highs and lows of impending parenthood stopped by an unexpected miscarriage.

the great scene with bert and macguilacudy at the water cooler to the song "the theme from the good, the bad, and the ugly". bet hugo montenegro never saw that song being used that way when he made it.
my favourite commercial growing up was represented. while the louis armstrong song was laying, a clip of the little boy on the ground with the puppy dogs...i loved that PEPSI commercial when i was little!! there's not much more happiness than a boy and puppies.

this one had it all.

rating: 9.5

I'm firmly on the fence about this episode. After I get past watching Bruce Willis as a baby (which I found difficult), here are some other thoughts.

On the one hand, there are some beautiful parts, but there are also some parts that I detest. I love some of the things that Jerome tells Baby Hayes about his parents. The way he describes Maddie and David's relationship and how much they love each other is wonderful. I also love the scenes showing all that is good in the world (and the Louis Armstrong song). I love seeing Maddie and David so happy (briefly) while they dance together. The last scene between them in the hospital was also sad but sweet.

But...I dislike the opening to the show. The early openings between Bruce and Cybill to fill time were cute. I found this one to be pretentious, as if Moonlighting had been reading their own headlines too much. By then, I think it became way too obvious that Bruce was a BIG star.

I absolutely hated the bit about David ogling girls who might be potential nannies for the baby. That was David in the first season, maybe. But by this time, his relationship with Maddie was much more serious and deeper and I thought that was very sexist and a real slap in the face to her.

Also, there was too much filler between Bert, Agnes and MacGillicuddy. They were all good as supporting players, but as usual, I was looking for more screen time between Bruce and Cybill.

Then you have the ongoing debate about whether the writers should have allowed them to have the baby. I know the argument against it is that it's very hard to write for a show with a baby in it, but I say it couldn't have been any worse than the 5th season turned out to be anyway.

I liked this episode for its real good drama, showing real love (finally) between Maddie and David, humor and I watched it several times to see that Bruce IS enjoying playing Baby Hayes.
It shows he's a very very good actor, I mean how many people can be sooo adorable putting on a baby suit and not look ridiculous at the same time?
I love the family album Jerome is showing him, and ofcourse one of the most beautiful pics of Cybill.
I had to get used to it but eventually I learned to love this episode.
It doesn't happen a lot that I cry for a movie or series but the end of this episode made my eyes tear.

I love this almost all of this episode but -
I got bored with the water cooler scene and hated the bit with the potential nannies :mad:

The rest was fantastic, especially the dance

Fast >>>> forward! lol

Originally posted by CyBr
I'm firmly on the fence about this episode. After I get past watching Bruce Willis as a baby (which I found difficult), here are some other thoughts.

On the one hand, there are some beautiful parts, but there are also some parts that I detest. I love some of the things that Jerome tells Baby Hayes about his parents. The way he describes Maddie and David's relationship and how much they love each other is wonderful. I also love the scenes showing all that is good in the world (and the Louis Armstrong song). I love seeing Maddie and David so happy (briefly) while they dance together. The last scene between them in the hospital was also sad but sweet.

But...I dislike the opening to the show. The early openings between Bruce and Cybill to fill time were cute. I found this one to be pretentious, as if Moonlighting had been reading their own headlines too much. By then, I think it became way too obvious that Bruce was a BIG star.

I absolutely hated the bit about David ogling girls who might be potential nannies for the baby. That was David in the first season, maybe. But by this time, his relationship with Maddie was much more serious and deeper and I thought that was very sexist and a real slap in the face to her.

Also, there was too much filler between Bert, Agnes and MacGillicuddy. They were all good as supporting players, but as usual, I was looking for more screen time between Bruce and Cybill.

Then you have the ongoing debate about whether the writers should have allowed them to have the baby. I know the argument against it is that it's very hard to write for a show with a baby in it, but I say it couldn't have been any worse than the 5th season turned out to be anyway.

Wow. I agree with CyBr on many points.

I remember feeling really queasy watching Bruce in a diaper way back in 1989. Now, it doesn't bother me - I find it kind of cute. I didn't like the opening scene either - I felt that it was a major put-down of Cybill - she wasn't in it at all until the last 3 seconds and it was a slap in the face because it kind of referred to her "being late" because it took so long for her to get ready. The opening scene basically was "HERE COMES BRUCE THE STAR" and by the way, here comes Cybill, late as usual. I also didn't like the nanny bit - I actually found it quite offensive. What got me through it was that I think BW used to call Cybill "the big blonde" so I always pretended that the line was directed at her, not the bimbo in the office.

I guess what I really liked about this episode was when Jerome describes baby David's parents to him. I love what Glenn wrote. I have watched that scene so many times that my tape has lines through it. The clips that were shown were an added bonus. That scene alone is enough for me to have warm feelings about this episode. I have stated before that I cannot watch this one once the dance scene starts. It is much too painful for me.

Here's where I stand on "WWAV."

I'm sure there are parts that I didn't like or didn't approve of, but this episode - for me - was made by the photo album scene and the phenomenal acting throughout the entire show. Cyb was fantastic. This story has drawn a lot of controversy, but I definitely think the good outweighs the bad.

Agree with you on that Lauren.

The good definitely outweighs the bad (I always fast forward through the bimbos which helps)

i don't understand where you guys are coming from.
to begin with, being with dave not knowing that the baby was his, he still loves maddie and is in major pains dues to her desserting him for weeks. and getting married. he was still so excited about being a father only to be told it wasn't his. now after what all has happened, neither one of them can treat the other like they used to becaue of all the hurt feelings and stuff between them. so they are going in extreme directions in how to cope with all this. maddie's personality has her working around the clock to cover up the pain instead of dealing with it. while david's personality has him use his own ways to cover up his pain instead of dealng with it. and he has always had women as a cover up for his own insecurities.
the only thing different between work and women is that now, they are taking them to extremes to cover their pains. not sayng that's right, but that is how each copes.
it's better than becoming an alcoholic.....

as for the opening scene...wasn't she pregnant at the time? maybe they didn't want her to go through the physical stuff so she wouldn't lose her baby in real life. i don't go for musical number like that myself. but what i liked about it was the lyrics. and by knowing the characters, it was the characters doing all this, not a bunch of faceless dancers. so it made it more personal than a group of dancers that are all dressed alike and all.

Cybill wasn't pregnant, but Maddie was.
Cybill had the twins in the fall of 1987.
This episode would have been shot in the summer of 1988, I believe.

I sometimes get the feeling that to many things are blamed on Cyb's pregnancy.
The twins were born in October 87, Womb is from December 87.

Cybill played very GOOD in this one, she played her part sooo dramatic in the end and that really got to me.
I told it before...........I think that at some point all eyes were only on Bruce and stayed on him till the end of the show.

Ok I don't have much time to post because of hurricane recovery work....but I am taking a quick break to read the boards and I very much want to comment here.

First, kis is correct Cybill is no longer pregnant by the time Womb is filmed (nor was she still pregnant during the last episodes of season 4....when Maddie returned from Chicago) as all of these were filmed after Cybill returned to set in January 1988 after giving birth in Oct 87.

Now, I have always liked this episode because it is so outside of the box. This was a very unusual and somewhat daring episode. No one would have tried anything close to this except for Moonlighting. It does have a few problems...but overall the idea and execution of the baby in the womb concept was exceptional to me. Bruce's acting as a baby I thought was excellent...I love how he has the movements and facial expresssions down... I love the baby trying to put everything in their mouth and the spinning around and around in the chair... He just does a great job playing Baby Hayes.

The concept of how the womb looks is also brilliant and I very much enjoyed Glenn's concept of "life/the creator" although I do find it rather a new-agey kind of Gnostic feeling religious bent to it. Whether that is what Glenn believes or just an interesting way to tell the story, I don't know....but this episode feels very spiritual to me...one of the most spiritual things they have ever done on Moonlighting.

I also have no problem with the end using Sunny Side of the Street song and dance to resolve the miscarriage implication...although I do know plenty of fans very offended and put off by that. I see it as more of a "try to laugh in the face of tragedy to keep from crying" statement....which I think fits in very well with the tenor of the show.

What I don't care about in the episode is the clumsy opening number and how the old episode clips are rather overtly inserted into the storyline. (I am referring to the using clips of Dream Sequence and Atomic Shakespeare to be previous lives/encounters of David and Maddie--Well, I know better than that.... I watched those episodes and know that the first one was dreams of D&M and the second one was the imaginings of the young boy studying Shakespeare.) I think that Jerome could have made the statement about the pair being old souls and constant companions without using those clips.... to me this seemed like mostly filler. A lot of this episode seemed like filler....the opening number, the water cooler scene, the Dream/Atomic clip use, the long photo expositions of life, happiness, and evil..... just so much filler..... I would have rather seen more interactions concerning the baby between Maddie and David and more of that wonderful baby shower and more of the conversation/time at the hospital with Maddie and David. It seems Glenn wrote a 30-min episode and then tried to fill it with superflous material. He would have been better served by giving more of what we had waited nine months to see----Maddie and David.

BTW, I believe this episode is actually symbolic in that it represents Glenn Caron's swan song as much as it does the end of the pregnancy/baby/couplehood storyline of Moonlighting. And that to me is the real tragedy herein. Watching Womb with a View is like watching the end of Moonlighting as we know it.

Womb is from December '87? I don't think so.

I thought it was the season opener in '88.

Originally posted by kismet
Womb is from December '87? I don't think so.

I thought it was the season opener in '88.

Sorry I meant '88!

i'm not blaming anything on her pregancy. i have no idea of her time compared to the stroyline. or airdates.
i don't know this show as good as i do M*A*S*H.

It's not you Bry, it's just in general that people blame a lot of things that went wrong with the show on her pregnancy.
I mean don't get me wrong but who knows how many times they couldn't start recording because Bruce was late because he had a rough night....
That's what I mean.

No personal attacks here....

I actually lost some respect for Glenn over this whole thing.
It always seemed to me that he went with the winner, and left Cybill in the dust. Cybill was given the blame for all of it, and took the blame. BW came out smelling like a rose. There was mucho stuff going on that caused the demise of Moonlighting. One of their biggest problems was you can't have David without Maddie, period! The producers/writers also couldn't decide which direction their relationship should go once she came back - and boy, when they did decide, they FOR SURE went in the wrong direction.

Yeah, let's see -- let's make David and Maddie PALS - yeah, that's it - the public want to see them actually do detective work NOT!

Oooooh, I'm on a rampage. I guess I should stop and take a breather.

I told the same thing before.....

Originally posted by Tazmania


No personal attacks here.... [/B]

didn't take it that way pal. :)

i think the whole baby thing was good for the show. it showed a deeper human factor to the characters, i feel.
a lot of folks just don't like the 5th season. i'm a minority i guess. i like it all (well, there's a few questionable episodes in every series). and i feel the characters all grew throughout the entire series.

A lot of things happened between the end of the fourth season (Spring 1988) and the beginning of the fifth season (which should have started in Fall 1988). The worst thing was the writers strike that extended Maddie's pregnancy to a ridiculous length of time. If not for that, I'm sure it would have been over at the end of the fourth season instead of dragging on. The fifth season didn't begin until December 1988 (over a year after Cybill gave birth). In the meantime, Glenn Caron left the series and Die Hard was released, which I don't think should be overlooked as having a major impact on Bruce and Moonlighting. After all that, the ratings dropped and Bruce was a full blown movie star.

That's my opinion too CyBr

No one is right or wrong here.
We all have differing opinions about some stuff and that is great!
This site is terrific because we are all equal here. We have the best thing in common: WE LOVE MOONLIGHTING!

It's all good.

Hmm...I'm starting to think that I'm not nearly as sensitive as you guys! :p

I guess the reason I like this episode so much is because I sort of overlook some of the things that the rest of you weren't crazy about. When I see really great acting and a storyline that I can appreciate, I tend to discount a lot of the imperfections.

I watched this episode again last night. Taz probably knows why. :p

It felt like I was outside the story. Most of the time I watch an episode of Moonlighting it's like I'm in the story as well (I hope you know what I mean).

This is also an episode where you can just see Agnes is acting. The first time I saw this episode, I was laughing out loud about the opening scene, but this time I thought it was all a big mess. You can notice they are just trying to fill some time...

The only thing I really liked about this episode is the photo album scene and the dance scene. And yeah, I would have liked to see David and Maddie more instead of baby Hayes and Jerome...

I'm going to watch a better episode tonight....maybe.

Oh and here's another little thingy:)

I think it's great they used the word Creator for the man upstairs. Every religion has another Creator. Some call Him God, some call Him Allah etc. Creator is for everyone, even for non-believers. It's perfect!:)

Ok. Here is a challenge. You know how many times the title of the episode is meant to play off a well known book, film, song, expression, whatever...and many times the book, film, etc. in some kind of way has a related theme to the episode.....

Well, this weekend I watched in its entirety for the first time the 1986 film A Room With A View....and I have to admit, other than a similar title. There is very little a like with this episode....

Who has seen the film or read the book "A Room with a View" and can contribute to this discussion.

I do have one thought that I can tie in, but I want to see what someone else might say before I just post it...

So anyone want to join me in this discussion?

i can't. i saw the tape of the movie after it came out. i don't remember none of it.

I've seen a Room with a view (one of my favourite films!), it's about an English girl (played by Helena Bonham Carter who goes to Florence in Italy and falls in love with this chap. It's a beautiful film, with gorgeous views of Italy and England in it, but I honestly can't see any link to A Womb with a view except the title. No babies, certainly..

Mul
:D

Ok fair enough....no babies.... but

What I did notice watching the film was that the female lead (Lucy) was well-bred, prim and proper and tried to follow her intellect in matters of the heart. But when confronted with an emotional, less well-bred, passionate male who was deeply in love with her she finally (after much resistence) gave in to him and was happy. Also there was much "lying" about ones true feelings. Lucy seemed to spend 3/4 of the movie denying her true feelings.

So that part of the story did resonate for me with Maddie and David's relationship.

I never saw the movie or read the book but you are making me curious:D

i've wanted to go back and watch it again. i just can't remember none of it. i must have like it to have sat through it all. just been too long.

After hearing a lot of good things about this episode, I watched it and was actually really disappointed. :eek:

The beginning was rather amusing but, as a few of you have said, it showcases Bruce as being the big star, as if the show was all about him. Couldn't they have had Maddie come in a teeny bit sooner, in time to do the last bit of the dance and try and pick it up, just to show that she was actually involved in the show?

I don't really want to moan about this episode because I know how beloved it is by many of you but truth be told, I was just annoyed by it :(

For me, it was embarrassing to watch Bruce Willis dressed up as a baby, the scenes where Baby Hayes was talking to Jerome dragged and there wasn't nearly enough David & Maddie.

I'm sorry to any lovers of AWWAV but this episode just didn't do it for me! :)