Guess this comes from watching a long time, but can you tell what year a show is from simply by looking at MTM's hairstyle or her weight? I can. And though it might sound a little farfetched, I think she came across better when she weighed more. There was a period in '64 when she was very skinny and it sorta distracted from her appeal a little. I don't think this is sexist because a comedic actor's appeal does in part go hand in hand with their look. Jackie Gleason had be chubby and
have that baby face for his character to work. When he got older and thinner it just didn't work. John Candy got too fat at the end. It was scary. You worried about him instead of him just watching the loveable fat guy he was before. Jerry Lewis had to be young. Mary's skinniness wasn't as bad, but in '64 and '73 on her own show you worried because she looked sickly. But in '65 and '74
she bounced back with noticeable
weight gains. And it helped. She looked healthier, more appealing,
and it somehow helped each show.
I just liked her looking better.
Too skinny slightly hurt each show. Don't ya think?

Well, she has diabetes and I think that has something to do with her weight. Not her fault, though.

well, yeah you can tell it was the 60's by her hair style, which BTW I loved on her! But I never really payed attention to her weight. Not very observant am I? lol

Originally posted by MtM fan:
Well, she has diabetes and I think that has something to do with her weight. Not her fault, though.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Mary wasn't diagnosed as being diabetic until after TDVDS went off the air. I think it happened in the years between Dick's show and her show.

Kristen

------------------
(After Mary's famous job interview)
Lou Grant:You know what? You've got spunk!
Mary Richards:Well, yes.
Lou Grant:I HATE SPUNK!!!
The Mary Tyler Moore Show
Visit www.mtmshow.cjb.net (http://www.mtmshow.cjb.net)

yea, you're right it was after the DVD show and before the MTM show but I was talking about the MTM show. She did gain weight towards the end but now she's back to being thin...er... thinner, she was always thin.

I know it was the 60s of course.
I meant I could tell which season one thru five it was. And, yes, she wasn't diabetic until after TDVDS.
But she was actually kinda voluptuous that first season, then normal, then rail thin, then normal again. On her own show she started normal, got very thin, then got voluptuous again. And sickly doesn't look good for comedy. She went thru these Ally McBeal periods.

In the 60s I think thin was the thing, it was in. When Mary started the DVDS she was pretty young. And some young people can be a bit smaller. I heard she smoked and I think when you are already thin to begin with, smoking can have some effect, you either stay the same or just seem to lose weight. Also, I heard she was quit smoking by the middle or the end of the show and when you quit smoking you tend to gain weight. Then as the late 60s to early 70s came so did her diabetes. She again became thin, and then I suppose, when she came use to dealing with diabetes mary gained a more healtheir weight. Today she looks thinner, but come on she's much older now, it does happen. Overall, I think shes always been thin, a nice then, not ever a Ally McBeal type. Mary diffently looked great and healthy compared to her.

Originally posted by Krystle:
[B]...Also, I heard she was quit smoking by the middle or the end of the show and when you quit smoking you tend to gain weight...[B]

She tried to quit smoking during the week they filmed "Never Bathe on Saturday", but she was unsuccessful at that time. After the blow up she had with Carl over this episode, she went back to smoking. It wasn't until after she had gone through alcohol rehab in the 80s that she worked on quitting again, and was successful.

[This message has been edited by Christina E (edited 11-29-2001).]

Speaking of clothes, wasn't Laura Petrie one of the first tv housewives to wear pants as part of the wardrobe?

I always thought Lucy was. I mean, ILL came out before DVD and I've seen Lucy wear them. But I think it was the style of Mary's pants that caused a bit of a stir because Lucy's weren't as tight as Mary's.

From the way I understand it, I Love Lucy had a few seasons on the air before TV censorship came into play. She did some things back in the first few seasons that she was later told to stop. Also, Lucy was a physical comedienne in her show, and there were certain times where she needed to be wearing pants or it would have been immodest. The show wasn't really about her as a housewife and mother, but about her trying to get into show business.

The shows that came on later that had the main female role as a regular housewife and mother (Leave it to Beaver and such) always had the women in a dress for the day to day life. Although June wore a dress in the day to day stuff, even she wore pants a few times, like when they went camping.

From how I understand it, The Dick Van Dyke Show was the first to show a normal everyday housewife that wore pants around the house on a normal basis. That was what was unusual, and what the sensors didn't like. Mary Tyler Moore was the first to wear pants like it was an everyday thing, not just a once in a while when the situation calls for it basis.

But you are right that the network didn't like how tight they were. I think they would have gone along with it a lot easier if they weren't so tight, but that is just my personal opinion.

Christina

Hi all,
It's been quite a while since I've posted on this message board, and I know this an old discussion. But, as a loyal subject of the goddess of television, I just HAD to throw my two cents worth in here:

I just want to say that, for what it's worth, 40 years ago, when she was Laura Petrie, Mary was incredibly magnificent, physically -- more so in some episodes than others. Her face was somehow pretty, cute and beautiful all at the same time! As for her body -- what can be said? I honestly feel that a professional sculptor or sculptress could *not* create, by hand, a more physically perfect woman than Laura.

But, whatever occurred in her life during those years between the end of the Dick Van Dyke Show and the beginning of Mary's own show -- regardless of whether or not it was her own fault (be it smoking-related, alcohol-related or diabetes-related) -- COMPLETELY tranformed the appearance of that body. Her face was still quite adorable, but one of the great behinds in television history had been reduced to a mere shadow of its former self. Her arms and legs had become toothpicks. And, it's awfully hard to continue to have a great hourglass figure when you have NO hips at all. I've always found it ironic that Lou Grant remarked, in one of the first Mary Tyler Moore Show episodes, if not THE first episode, about what a "great caboose" Mary had. (Hey Lou, you should've seen it about five or six years earlier!) It wasn't just her general scrawniness in those days, but an awful hairdo and a completely different style of clothing, in *my* opinion at least, contributed significantly to the almost total eradication of what, to me, had been the most physically perfect woman. Mary's appeal in the those earliest days of her show was due in part to the fact that thin was in. And, it remained in partly because of the fact that Mary was so appealing.

Then, as the Mary Tyler Moore Show went on, she started to get *some* of that past sexiness back, so that by around 1973 or '74, she was pretty hot stuff once again. At that point, she was like a slightly thinner Laura Petrie who wore '70s hairstyles and fashions...and who was in color! But, The Mary Tyler Moore Show was never too much about what she looked like -- it was all about an independent and liberated young single woman living on her own and making it in a male-dominated business, a great supporting cast, superior writing and direction...and Mary's outstanding acting and comedic abilities.

In the years since then, Mary has certainly aged and gotten thinner all over again. Yet even now, with her so slim and sixty-something years old, were I to be in the same room with her, I'd probably faint.

By the way, Christina, while Laura Petrie may have been the first woman on TV to frequently wear pants around the house, it seems to me that the majority of her screen time was spent in dresses and skirts.

Later,
Art:wave:

Originally posted by Artfiore1


By the way, Christina, while Laura Petrie may have been the first woman on TV to frequently wear pants around the house, it seems to me that the majority of her screen time was spent in dresses and skirts.

Later,
Art:wave:



Actually, censors ( I guess) said that Mary HAD to wear a skirt. She was only allowed to wear the pants in one scene per episode (Mary's words not mine) although I have seen her wearing pants more then once in quite a few episodes. Oh, and I know I'm not the Christina you were talking to but I'm bored so I decided to reply ::grabs a stick and goes on an adventure::

MTM1Fan,
That reminds me of ABC, or whoever it was, in the early days of "Happy Days" declaring that Fonzie could wear leather only once an episode . . . or only in scenes that had his motorcycle in it. Such nonsense.

I don't know the reason for the censors' attitude regarding what Mary wore on the Dick Van Dyke Show. For some ridiculous reason, they didn't like any sustained camera shots of the back of Laura's pants . . . as if we weren't supposed to know that she had a rear end. (Didja ever notice the girl dancing in the first bowling alley scene of the "Twizzle" episode, whose pants were much tighter and more form-fitting than anything Mary ever wore? That girl, at times, looks like she's wearing nothing. I wonder how *that* got left in the show.) Maybe the fact that, metaphorically speaking, "wearing the pants" in those days was synonymous with being "in charge" had something to do with it -- the censors not wanting the wife to seem like the boss, or just as much the boss as the husband was. Or maybe, it's as simple as the censors, like myself, just preferring to see Mary in a dress or a skirt.

Later,
Art

I also noticed that in the early seasons of the MTM show, she was very thin, particularly in the arms. Though I have never heard of weight loss being a side effect of diabetes; usually the other way around-- the person gains weight from medication. I could be wrong. :D

Sitcom Sally,
I think that when people suddenly find themselves on serious diet restrictions or unable to eat or drink a lot of the things that they have loved for years, they do tend to lose weight.

My own brother, within the past year, was diagnosed a diabetic. And, as a result, has lost quite a bit of weight since then.

...The way I understood it, Laura could wear pants, as long as they didnt "cup under", accentuating her backside because *that* was considered "vulgar". It wasnt about pants at all...just about showing, or insinuating, she had parts that we all knew were there, but wasnt proper to show. I have to laugh. I cant help it. It was silly. This was back in the days when media had a "decency board". In my opinion, a bunch of crotchety old crackpots with uptight, archaeic ideals and nothing else better to do. Weird. I dont mind a bit of decency, mind you, but this stuff went overboard...

Then, again, when I think of the lack of morals in tv today compared to this archaeic old fools, I think I would prefer the archaeic old fools...

But, I do say, Laura had the best wardrobe of any woman in the 60s, regardless of restrictions! :cool:


~Pickles

Pickles,
You're right about the undercupping. The censors didn't want you to be able to see Mary's butt, which seems sort of odd by today's standards. I think eventually, they relaxed a little once they realized nobody was having a heart attack over it. Heck, most guys out there probably enjoyed it! LOL! (Right, Steve? ;))

Kristen

LOL!
You're darned right we did!
Steve

All the talk about MTM's tight capri pants and what was and wasn't allowed to be worn, got me thinking about "The Gunslinger". It wasn't one of their best shows IMO, but there is something <ahem> noteworthy about it, particularly for the ladies. I always thought DVD had a nice a** in those days. But for the first (and probably only) time, it's shown to great advantage in the tight black jeans he's wearing throughout the ep. Guess the censors didn't worry about riling up the girls!

Sitcom Sally,
The standards have always been different: Men have always been allowed to be seen wearing shorts or bathing suits that rode as high up on them as possible, while a long time ago, it was a big deal to even see a woman's *knees*. Men could always be seen on TV topless, while women obviously couldn't and still can't. I guess the networks/censors have felt it more dangerous when women are on display.

On the other hand, Batman & Robin *did* have to wear special apparatusses under their tights to keep their "goodies" from being too clearly defined.

Originally posted by Artfiore1
Sitcom Sally,
The standards have always been different: Men have always been allowed to be seen wearing shorts or bathing suits that rode as high up on them as possible, while a long time ago, it was a big deal to even see a woman's *knees*. Men could always be seen on TV topless, while women obviously couldn't and still can't. I guess the networks/censors have felt it more dangerous when women are on display.

On the other hand, Batman & Robin *did* have to wear special apparatusses under their tights to keep their "goodies" from being too clearly defined.



I heard that about B&R, but...I always wondered about the riddler...LOL...it didnt appear that Frank Gorshin wore anything beneath the Riddler suit to disguise his...er..."essentials".:eek:

Sitcom Sally,

Sorry, but I haven't the foggiest about that

Originally posted by PicklesSorrell




I heard that about B&R, but...I always wondered about the riddler...LOL...it didnt appear that Frank Gorshin wore anything beneath the Riddler suit to disguise his...er..."essentials".:eek:

LOL!:lol: