This is a real old one - does anyone remember it - story goes like this.

Teenage boy attends a party at a duplex on a friday night and is routinely harrassed during the party and possibly given some drink laced with a powerful drug. The teenager later turns up dead several days later. When the boy's father start to investigate his son's death he discovers disturbing clues that seem to point to the fact that his son was murdered.

He recieves a call several days after the boy went missing that his son was in the basement of this duplex and if he wanted him, he could come get him but he better hurry. When he arrives nobody is in the basement but it looks like someone may have spent the night in the basement recently. When questioning the owner of the duplex he is told that no party took place on the Friday in question. However a pizza delivery boy refutes this claim by saying he delivered food to this said "duplex party" on the night in question. There seems also to be an alleged "cover-up" of the whole thing.


2) Speaking of cover ups anyone remember the case of a Police commisoner named Gaboulie who was asked to resign due to a murder cover up only to be reinstated months later. I believe one of the witness's in this case was an old man who was the Police commisoner's secretary and typed dummyed up documents for the commisoner. What was this case all about?

3) Anyone remember where the Norman Ladner murder took place? - Was it in the deep south cause from what I remember it kinda smells of "The Train Deaths" of Kevin Ives and friend - same sort of scenerio - If anyone can get me info on this I'll elaborate on my theory

Later.

Your first case would be the Kurt Sova case in Cleveland, OH. Sova was an early 80's headbanger and he went to a preppy party where he was neglected after he probably drank too much. Guess his metalhead buddies weren't cool enough anymore... but anyways, my theory is that the preppy kids didn't want their parents to find out about their drinking party, so they figured that they better get rid of any evidence, so they got rid of the body and denied any knowledge of it. Afterall, they barely knew the kid. I remember being a teenager, and this is how a teenage mind works, believe me...


Your second case is the Micheal Rosenblum case, where the guy was hooked on painkillers and went schizo on his girlfriend and parents. He dissappeared and was never seen again. The suburb cops had not reported that they found the guys car the day after he disappeared. Then the Gaburri cheif told his clerk to lie and say he attempted to contact the family, even though he didn't. The cheif got fired and later re-instated. Mike Rosenblums remains were found, like, 8 years later, exactly where a psychic said they'd be. The lying cheif was never re-tried for a cover-up.

Ladner case was in rural Misissippi. Kid appeared to have done himself in, but the parents found their own "clues" that suggested that drug shipments were going down on their land and the kid witnessed a deal. Plausible, but not likely.

Originally posted by unsolved_on_film
Your first case would be the Kurt Sova case in Cleveland, OH. Sova was an early 80's headbanger and he went to a preppy party where he was neglected after he probably drank too much. Guess his metalhead buddies weren't cool enough anymore... but anyways, my theory is that the preppy kids didn't want their parents to find out about their drinking party, so they figured that they better get rid of any evidence, so they got rid of the body and denied any knowledge of it. Afterall, they barely knew the kid. I remember being a teenager, and this is how a teenage mind works, believe me...

That was a strange death. The coroner could not determine a cause of death. Some strange dude told a store clerk (who had just put up a missing persons flyer with Sova's picture) that Sova would be found dead in a few days and that the cause of death would not be detectable. In addition, Sova had been missing for several days prior to the time of his death (I want to say a week), and one of his shoes was missing when his body was eventually found.

Sova also had a buddy who started his own investigation into Kurt's death. This kid was later found dead. Again, no obvious cause of death, the missing shoe, and he had been missing for a week before he actually died.

Regarding Ladner: I think he committed suicide. The evidence indicating otherwise was sketchy at best. His death was initially called an accident and the mother admitted in the UM interview that she was fine with that. It wasn't until after they said he committed suicide that the family began with the conspiracy theories.

Justin

Regarding Ladner: I think he committed suicide. The evidence indicating otherwise was sketchy at best. His death was initially called an accident and the mother admitted in the UM interview that she was fine with that. It wasn't until after they said he committed suicide that the family began with the conspiracy theories.

I'm gonna have to buck the trend here though for a few reasons.

1) In my opinion suicide is out of the question unless there is more info than we know about regarding the psychological makeup of Norman Ladner. From what his parents say he was not in any type of 'black mood" or anything and since they are his parents you have to consider them at least tangible witnesses as to the mental state of their son. Of course, nobody knows exactly what is going on in a kid's head but if he was driven to suicide by deep depression or anxities I think his parents would have known about that.

2) The accident theory in my opinion is also not likely. As a woodsmen myself I learned very early in life how to handle, clean & shoot a hunting rifle etc. I believe living near a vast stretch of woods in Missiippi and having hunted with his father before Norman Lader knew how to handle the said weapon. Also wasn't he shot in the temple meaning he would have to basically shoot himself in a "suicide/execution like" manner where an accident would have looked much different.

3) Location, Location Location - Misissippi is awfully close to Arkansas and it is common knowledge that in the late 80s (when both the deaths of Ladner and Ives occured) rural areas in the deep south such as Mena, Arkansas and possibly the area of Misissippi where Ladner lived were being used as "drop sites" for drug trafficing. According to Kevin Ives' mother her son was murdered by people connected with drug figure Barry Seal when her son saw something he shouldn't have. This could also be the case with Ladner as he was found dead in a remote area and his father did find a transmitting device in which he was later told signals airplanes on where to make "drops". Of course there is no proof of this but in some ways the similarities are staggering.

Later.

That was a strange death. The coroner could not determine a cause of death. Some strange dude told a store clerk (who had just put up a missing persons flyer with Sova's picture) that Sova would be found dead in a few days and that the cause of death would not be detectable. In addition, Sova had been missing for several days prior to the time of his death (I want to say a week), and one of his shoes was missing when his body was eventually found.

Sova also had a buddy who started his own investigation into Kurt's death. This kid was later found dead. Again, no obvious cause of death, the missing shoe, and he had been missing for a week before he actually died.

Regarding Ladner: I think he committed suicide. The evidence indicating otherwise was sketchy at best. His death was initially called an accident and the mother admitted in the UM interview that she was fine with that. It wasn't until after they said he committed suicide that the family began with the conspiracy theories.

Justin
I thought the friend of Sova's that was found dead was 10 years old is that right?

Afterall, they barely knew the kid. I remember being a teenager, and this is how a teenage mind works, believe me...

I don't know what kinds of kids you socialized with as a teenager, but categorizing all teenagers as sociopaths is going a bit far, believe me...

I don't know what kinds of kids you socialized with as a teenager, but categorizing all teenagers as sociopaths is going a bit far, believe me...

You might want to check on the dates when responding to particular posts. This thread is from 2004!

I thought the friend of Sova's that was found dead was 10 years old is that right?

yeah, and I don't remember them being called "buddies" on the UM broadcast. Where did you get info that the "crazy from detroit" was detained by the police for sending a threatening letter to the record store chick? I havne't heard that before. Are you from Cleveland or something?

yeah, and I don't remember them being called "buddies" on the UM broadcast. Where did you get info that the "crazy from detroit" was detained by the police for sending a threatening letter to the record store chick? I havne't heard that before. Are you from Cleveland or something?
It was on the show they said after he sent that poem to the girl in the record store she contacted the police and told them what he had said about Kurt and about the poem. They said that the police questioned him and released him. They also said that the other kid that was found dead knew Kurt but did not say they were buddies.

It was on the show they said after he sent that poem to the girl in the record store she contacted the police and told them what he had said about Kurt and about the poem. They said that the police questioned him and released him. They also said that the other kid that was found dead knew Kurt but did not say they were buddies.

I must have missed that. Thanks...

3) Anyone remember where the Norman Ladner murder took place? - Was it in the deep south cause from what I remember it kinda smells of "The Train Deaths" of Kevin Ives and friend - same sort of scenerio - If anyone can get me info on this I'll elaborate on my theory



I think there is a good possibility he was murdered. I know of a man who was out walking on his Alabama farm property, something he did daily, and was murdered. They believe he came up on somebody trafficking (sp?) drugs on the property.

It was on the show they said after he sent that poem to the girl in the record store she contacted the police and told them what he had said about Kurt and about the poem. They said that the police questioned him and released him. They also said that the other kid that was found dead knew Kurt but did not say they were buddies.

In the segment there was no poem mentioned. The stranger in the trenchcoat and sunglasses from Detroit talked to the girl in the record store in person and told her to take the Kurt Sova flier down because they would find that kid dead in a few days and that they wouldn't know how he died.

This maybe a stretch, but I speculate that this guy was a serial killer who had some kind of concoction that he used to kill kids that was untraceable. He had an air of arrogance about him. And how could you explain the similarities between Kurt Sova and the 10 year old kid's death (undetermined cause of death and missing right shoe)? I wonder how he perfected his concoction? Maybe he was into the drug scene and was a chemist as a hobby of his?

Yeah there was a poem "Rose are red, sky is blue, they found him dead and they'll find you too" - The crazy from Detroit sent the record store owner that letter and a wreath of flowers I believe the next morning prior to being questioned and later released by police.

Wow, I don't remember that. That's very scary. I'll bet that lady was looking over her shoulder for quite a while after she read that poem.

Yeah there was a poem "Rose are red, sky is blue, they found him dead and they'll find you too" - The crazy from Detroit sent the record store owner that letter and a wreath of flowers I believe the next morning prior to being questioned and later released by police.
This is the part I just don't get he said all this stuff sends her the poem and they pick up up AFTER Sova was found dead and dont even get his name?Then release him

Wow, I don't remember that. That's very scary. I'll bet that lady was looking over her shoulder for quite a while after she read that poem.

Yes she was in fear of her safety as she asked to be filmed in silhouette during her interview.

that is exactly what i thought after i saw that segment,he obviously had to know something;or venthe killer himself. i wonder if they were to go back and reopen the case,and examine autopsy reports and such. now with technology being more advanced,they may possibly be able to figure out the cause of death ?:(

Yeah there was a poem "Rose are red, sky is blue, they found him dead and they'll find you too" - The crazy from Detroit sent the record store owner that letter and a wreath of flowers I believe the next morning prior to being questioned and later released by police.
This is the part I just don't get. This guy was picked up and questioned by police. So they have his name right? They have an address too right? If he withheld his name the police could have held him until they found out who he was. If he gave no address they could have held him for vagrantcy. Did police make any attempt to locate him after Kurt was found dead? Ive said this many times but this case Wreaks of Bad Police work

this is a fascinating case and it's surprising there's NO information on this anywhere online except right here.

-Just about everyone believes that so called friend of Sova's was lying when he said he left him up against the fence and went back in and then Sova was gone. I agree, BS.

-I think the part about the guy seeing Sova on the road a couple of days later is false too, he said he didn't get a good view and Sova didn't respond. Somebody rehash the details on this piece of the segment, I haven't seen it in a while. I remember based on what was said, I didn't put too much stock into that friend's account. then again, they did say that Kurty Boy was only dead for a day or two but I wonder how accurate that is. Maybe that's just speculation.

-The Detroit "Crazy" (lol "Crazy") was creepy and was definitely involved. There's no way he would've said something like they'll find him dead in two days and nobody will know how he died and it turns out to be true, it's too coincidental, eery. Wait he did say that first right? And THEN he sent a poem? I forget. But I know he had too many details. I'd be skuuuurrrred if I were that store girl!

-the girl who owned the home, liar. That much has been proven.

-Does Unsolved Mysteries tell you everything? How are we sleuths supposed to help if we don't have all the details? If that segment was everything, then this was one of the worst police investigations of all time. Were the Sova's really poor or something? Did the local police cheif have something against Mr Sova? The cops should've put that girl and the friend who says he put Kurty boy up against the wall and then went back in and interrogated the hell out of them. The girl especially could be held responsible, it was her house, her party. There's just no way they don't know. Especially the girl with calling saying she thought Kurty Boy was in her basement. Which brings me to another point. Why didn't Mr Sova alert the police right away? Didn't the detectives search for signs of Kurty Boy on the bed? the early 80's had to have SOME type of detective kit, it wasn't THAT long ago. And why let the Detroit Crazy go? Hello UM! We need a name! What the cops let him go without getting info? And how did they come across him anyway? They had to have had a reason to question him. What about the OTHER people at the party? The girl probably knew most of them and could give addresses. BAD BAD BAD Police work or more likely UM was lazy on this one. Another thing is that other kid that was killed in the same fashion. It should have been a double segment describing both in detail that way you could see for any similarities. Was the second kid just a little guy? Does anybody know for sure? I can't remember if that was explained on the UM segment. And did him and Sova Boy know each other for sure? Were there any more killings in Cleveland area where the cause of death was unkown and the right shoe was missing? Somebody from Cleveland, pony up the bucks and get a police report on Kurty Boy. Then share it on this page...seriously this case should have been solved. The cops sucked big time. Kurty Boy's folks should've had the FBI get in on this. On an unrelated note, teens from the early 80's were GEEKS! lol

Regarding Ladner: I think he committed suicide. The evidence indicating otherwise was sketchy at best. His death was initially called an accident and the mother admitted in the UM interview that she was fine with that. It wasn't until after they said he committed suicide that the family began with the conspiracy theories.

I'm gonna have to buck the trend here though for a few reasons.

1) In my opinion suicide is out of the question unless there is more info than we know about regarding the psychological makeup of Norman Ladner. From what his parents say he was not in any type of 'black mood" or anything and since they are his parents you have to consider them at least tangible witnesses as to the mental state of their son. Of course, nobody knows exactly what is going on in a kid's head but if he was driven to suicide by deep depression or anxities I think his parents would have known about that.

2) The accident theory in my opinion is also not likely. As a woodsmen myself I learned very early in life how to handle, clean & shoot a hunting rifle etc. I believe living near a vast stretch of woods in Missiippi and having hunted with his father before Norman Lader knew how to handle the said weapon. Also wasn't he shot in the temple meaning he would have to basically shoot himself in a "suicide/execution like" manner where an accident would have looked much different.

3) Location, Location Location - Misissippi is awfully close to Arkansas and it is common knowledge that in the late 80s (when both the deaths of Ladner and Ives occured) rural areas in the deep south such as Mena, Arkansas and possibly the area of Misissippi where Ladner lived were being used as "drop sites" for drug trafficing. According to Kevin Ives' mother her son was murdered by people connected with drug figure Barry Seal when her son saw something he shouldn't have. This could also be the case with Ladner as he was found dead in a remote area and his father did find a transmitting device in which he was later told signals airplanes on where to make "drops". Of course there is no proof of this but in some ways the similarities are staggering.

I'm inclined to agree. I am definately not leaning towards murder w/ the Ladner case, but from the crime scene, it just looks too neat for an accident. It doesn't look consistent with a suicide scene to me, either. I am studying to be a CSI and studied blood spatter w/ Herb McDonell. From the crime scene photos I have viewed and research conducted for my senior thesis, Ladner would have been dead before he would have heard the gunshot. The gun could not have landed that neatly at his side. I think the theory involving drug trafficking should have been investigated more. I am not totally convinced it's murder, but based on what I saw in the segment, I can't say without a doubt I believe it's an accident either. What do you all think?