Do any of you remember the case regarding a teenager, who had been pulled over by Police and was arrested without given reason as to why he was?

He died in a county jail about 40 miles away from the first county jail he was taken to. Also, hours after he went missing in the cell in which he was held, he was found, by a cellmate, hanging from one of his sneaker laces in a dimmed shower stall. His bare feet were actually touching the floor. His parents were informed that he had commited suicide but they were informed very casually as if it wasn't a big deal.

Yeah, I remember that case. I think that he was murdered by one of the other prisoners!

I think the police did it. They were probably trying to restrain him by getting him a chokehold, and they ended up strangling him. To cover it up, they made it look like he hung himself.

It just seems very strange to me that the area, in which the shower stalls were located and also where his body was found, was the only dim area throughout the whole cell. Also, Andre's stepfather stated that one of the inmates had mentioned to him that he was taken out of the cell and then brought back in a wheelchair. THAT also strikes me as strange.

Andre was more than likely murdered. Evem a separate pathologist who exhumed the body and studied it found evidence of other stuff and claimed as his find that the hanging was staged.

He was killed, maybe even accidentally, but then the cover up to stage a hanging went into effect. Too many other people saw or heard strange things happening, including the wheelchair affidavit. Some cell-mates even later heard that the shoelace thing was staged to make it look like a suicide.

Check out this webpage:

http://rwor.org/a/v20/970-79/979/miss.htm

Crazy stuff. Definitely looks like the police did it. Also looks like he wasn't the first one, either.

The episode aired today. So sad.

My grandfather was a police chief. One time he told me that the police will always look out for each other, no matter what. Seems that's what is going on with this case. :(

Yep, I agree with everyone. He was most likely murdered while in police custody.

One detail which I rember from this case has always troubled me. The boy's father was a minister, if I remember correctly was a minister in the Nation of Islam. Is it possible his parents involvement in this orgainization had anything to do with his death? A revenge motive maybe?

Any thoughts on this are welcomed.

Chris

I thought I'd bump this up as I did find a blurb about it. I was always curious what came of the investigation that Attorney General Janet Reno ordered on all the suspicious deaths. Does anyone know? Apparently Andre's parents won a substantial settlement:

In February of 1996, Lumumba announced that he would pursue lawsuits on behalf of Charles and Esther Quinn. A few days after the Quinns’ son Andre Jones had been arrested in August of 1992, he was found hanged in a shower stall in the Simpson County jail. The case attracted national attention for three reasons: first because he was one of the last of forty-eight jailhouse hangings of young African American men in Mississippi since 1987; second, because an independent autopsy ruled the death a homicide after state’s pathologist had called it a suicide; and finally, because the hanging happened under the supervision of Simpson County Sheriff Lloyd “Goon” Jones. Jones had become infamous after being accused in the deaths of two foreign journalists covering the landmark racial integration admission of James Meredith to the University of Mississippi in 1962. Jones was later implicated in the murders of two Jackson State University students in 1972. Lumumba won substantial damages for the Quinn family.

I thought I'd bump this up as I did find a blurb about it. I was always curious what came of the investigation that Attorney General Janet Reno ordered on all the suspicious deaths. Does anyone know? Apparently Andre's parents won a substantial settlement.


I've never seen this case on UM, but from the limited amount of things I've seen, it sounds like his parents DESERVED a substantial award. This case reminds of me of the Jayson Artis (http://www.unsolved.com/1103-Artis.html) case.

The things that happen in jail/prison scare me.

I thought I'd bump this up as I did find a blurb about it. I was always curious what came of the investigation that Attorney General Janet Reno ordered on all the suspicious deaths. Does anyone know? Apparently Andre's parents won a substantial settlement:

In February of 1996, Lumumba announced that he would pursue lawsuits on behalf of Charles and Esther Quinn. A few days after the Quinns’ son Andre Jones had been arrested in August of 1992, he was found hanged in a shower stall in the Simpson County jail. The case attracted national attention for three reasons: first because he was one of the last of forty-eight jailhouse hangings of young African American men in Mississippi since 1987; second, because an independent autopsy ruled the death a homicide after state’s pathologist had called it a suicide; and finally, because the hanging happened under the supervision of Simpson County Sheriff Lloyd “Goon” Jones. Jones had become infamous after being accused in the deaths of two foreign journalists covering the landmark racial integration admission of James Meredith to the University of Mississippi in 1962. Jones was later implicated in the murders of two Jackson State University students in 1972. Lumumba won substantial damages for the Quinn family.


The govt. ruled that nothing suspicious happened. Of course.

IMHO, this was nothing more than a suicide. I'll try to break down the segment piece by piece and give my reasons as to why I think Andre did in fact kill himself.

First, let me start off by saying some cops, not all, lie. There's corruption everywhere in this country, not just in law enforcement. That being said, the first thing that struck me about this case was the fact that they were referring to the "mysterious" hangings that were going on in jails in Mississippi around the same time that Andre was found dead. Half were black, half were white. So right off the bat, I don't see where the argument for racism can exist. I know there are prejudiced cops, some even racist, but again it's an ugly thing that exists everywhere. Now on to the actual case itself.

Andre and his girlfriend, Tanisha, are shown in the re-enactment as pulling up to a routine sobriety checkpoint area. It's acknowledged that Andre is driving a friend's car, which also happened to be stolen, and he is also driving without a license. His parents, his girlfriend, and the police are all in agreement that he did not have his license on him and that the truck he was driving (for over a week) was stolen. Andre may or may not have known if this was stolen, and I think it's a moot point. Police also said in addition to driving the stolen vehicle, Andre stopped short of the checkpoint and tossed a .38 caliber pistol out the window. They also said inside the cab of the truck was an open container of alcohol. Tanisha flat out denies the fact that there was beer or the gun ever in the truck. So who are we to believe? Or in other words, who would have a bigger motive to lie...Tanisha or the police? Let's see, the cops already had him for driving without a license AND driving a stolen vehicle. We have to remember that this was a routine DUI checkpoint. This wasn't some case where someone was pulled over for speeding which spiraled out of control. We also have to remember that the cops did not know Andre from Adam. What else are they supposed to think when Andre says it's not his car, and that he had no idea it was stolen? If you pull over a car that is reported stolen, the driver INSTANTLY becomes your number one suspect. So of course they would have arrested Andre right there on the spot. But, why feel the need to lie about the gun and the beer? They already had a pretty substantial charge against him with the stolen vehicle, why randomly out of the blue just say, "Ahh...let's say he threw a gun out the window and had a beer just for kicks." It makes no sense to me as to why they would feel the need to lie about the gun, especially since there was a passenger in the truck that could verify that it didn't exist. Now Tanisha on the other hand was an occupant in a stolen vehicle, and (according to police) was driving in a vehicle with an open container. I'm not sure about Mississippi, but I know in some states passengers can get charged with DUIs (DUI by consent is the charge), and if there was evidence of drinking, maybe Tanisha feared being charged for one, if not all of these charges Andre was facing. For that reason alone she would have a motive to lie. Or perhaps she wanted to protect Andre, and uphold his wholesome image, who knows? Tanisha acknowledges that the truck was stolen but she didn't know it, yet we have no way to verify if this is true or not. IMO, the same goes for the gun and the beer. We have Tanisha's word to go on that this was a fabrication by the police. And I think it's safe to say that Tanisha isn't exactly an impartial witness, being that Andre was her boyfriend. Tanisha's credibility gets weaker as her story goes on about what the cops did after Andre told them his name.

According to Tanisha, a cop asked Andre his name and after he told him, the cop got together with other cops and they all huddled up together "like a football huddle". Then the cop came back over and asked Andre again if he had his license and he said, "NO" which is when he was asked to get out of the car and put in handcuffs. Doesn't that sound like a routine thing police officers do when pulling over someone without a license? The "huddle" could have been nothing more than the cops getting together going over what was going on with Andre getting a "vote" so to speak on how they should proceed. The implication from the UM segment is that the cop "recognized" Andre Jones' name as the son of a prominent member of the local NAACP, and being the racists they are, decided to arrest him and make up charges against him. I have numerous problems with this. First, isn't Jones a common name? Also, what are the odds this beat cop would even know who Andre's mother was based off of name alone? That just makes absolutely no sense to me. Isn't it more realistic that the other cops were running the tags of the truck, found the name of the person the truck was registered to, and (since Andre didn't have his license) when Andre told them his name they knew he wasn't the one supposed to be driving it which is why he was handcuffed? I also think that Tanisha's account of what happened (at least according to what was shown on her UM interview) is pretty accurate and probably did unfold the way she said it did. How do the beer and gun fit into this scenario? This is where I think the UM re-enactment is a bit misleading. In the "police version" shown on UM, Andre tosses the gun out the window mere feet away from the officers at the checkpoint. Then they approach him, find the beer, then the gun, and then they arrest him. I don't think this is very accurate, and doubt anything would have happened that rapidly like it was shown in the re-enactment. I think the officers asked for his license, and then told him to pull to the side of the road. This may have been when Andre tossed the gun out of the window, or he very well could have tossed it several yards before the checkpoint but police figured it was an empty beer can or litter and decided not to pursue the matter until they talked to him. I think the "huddle" was the officers discussing the car being reported stolen and that Andre was saying he did not have a license. I think this was when the officer approached and gave him one more chance to show an ID, and when he said he didn't have one again this is when the officer cuffed him. Which is very standard procedure. I then think the officers asked him what he threw out the window, he denied throwing anything which is why they went back and searched the general area and found the gun. I also think they saw an empty beer can (it could have been something lying on the floor or in the bed of the truck unknown to both Tanisha and Andre) somewhere in the truck which is why they tacked on the "open container" charge. Or they very well could have been drinking beer in the truck at the time, we'll never know. Either way, I do not see the police just making something up for no apparent reason. There's no evidence that these officers were prejudiced, or hounding Andre, or even falsely arresting Andre. Even in Tanisha's version of events the officers comply with routine procedures, and there was no evidence of any wrong doing on the officers part. If these cops were out to "get" Andre for some nefarious reason, why would they put in their report how "amazed" they were at how cooperative Andre was. Does that sound like a setup to you? The police arrest a man driving a stolen truck without a license who's being very cooperative with them and for some unknown reason they decide to make up the fact that he tossed a gun out of a window and that he was drinking and driving? So again I'll ask, who has the bigger motive to lie at this point? The police or Tanisha?

...TO BE CONTINUED...

Please, he was murdered, or as they say it, lynched because he was black. His case is what I like to call one of the "three racial murders", the other two being Keith Warren and Jayson Artis. I believe he was beaten and hung to make it look like a suicide when in fact he was murdered.

...CONTINUED...

Next I'd like to touch upon the phone call Andre placed to his mother from the jail he was taken too. He called his mother several times over the course of the day, and was transferred to the county jail. Each time he talked to his mother he said he didn't know what he was being charged with. Now from the parents perspective I can see why they would initially think this was a misunderstanding. They had no idea that the truck Andre was driving was stolen and since Andre himself was saying he had no idea why he was arrested in the first place, they had every right to be upset with police. However, finding out after the fact that the car was stolen should have put things into better perspective, IMO. We have an 18 year old, who's supposed to start college in a day, who's just been arrested for carrying a concealed weapon and driving a stolen truck. I think that Andre was simply embarassed about everything which is why he told his mother he didn't know what he was being charged with. If his parents held this image of Andre as a straight laced college bound decent guy who had a bright future ahead of him, who wouldn't be embarassed by the tarnishing of that image? And if in fact there was no gun, wouldn't Andre have been adamant with his mother on the phone that he was being wrongfully charged? And if there was no gun, why wouldn't Andre just come clean over the phone with his mother and tell her the car he borrowed was stolen? His parents knew he borrowed the car from a friend, so it's not like they would have thought he was the one that stole it or anything. The fact that he denied knowing anything on the phone tells me there was something he didn't want his parents to know about, and I think it was the gun personally. He had to have been told something he was being charged with. The police just don't pull you over and arrest you without telling you why.

At the jail, Andre is alleged to have told police that he was in a gang and voluntarily posed for pictures displaying gang signs to the police. Again, the officers were "impressed" with how cooperative he was being. I see no reason in the world why the police would make this up. Again, why flat out lie about Andre admitting to being in a gang (I suppose to taint his character) to then do a 180 and compliment him by saying how impressed they were about how cooperative he was? Does that honestly sound like a setup? I think the parents were a bit naive into believing that Andre would never join a gang. He obviously associated with unsavory characters or else he wouldn't have been driving around a stolen truck he borrowed from a friend. While Andre may not have been in a gang, is it really that much of a stretch to say he at least associated with these people?

According to Andre's stepfather, an inmate who was transferred to the county jail with Andre said that the transferring officer made several racial remarks in an attempt to intimidate Andre. This very well may be true, and even if it is true it doesn't bolster the murder theory by much, IMO. Just because one dumbass ignorant cop made some racist comments does not mean there was a grand murder plot all along. And there's also the possibility that the inmate is lying. How much stock can we put into the word of an inmate who already has animosity towards police?

When Andre was taken to the county jail, he was taken to an "L" shaped holding cell with 12 other inmates. This is where Andre is alleged to have hung himself in the shower in this holding cell with his shoelace. His stepfather visited the cell and said that it was approximately eight feet in the air and that Andre would have needed to have "help" to hang himself. The pathologist disputes this and says that it was demonstrated before him that it was easily accomplished. Being that the pathologist is a trained expert, who witnessed someone recreate what Andre did "easily", I'll have to believe him. The parents also contended the fact that a shoelace would not have been able to sustain Andre's body weight. But the pathologist did in fact determine that the lace's "tensile strength" was strong enough to support Andre. There's also a reason why nowadays police make inmates remove their belts and shoes...because people have been known to hang themselves with these materials before. It's really not that uncommon as people would initially think. Andre's parents were unhappy with the autopsy report so they went out and hired an independent pathologist who determined that Andre was murdered. This is where it turns into a he said/he said argument between the pathologists. The independent pathologist made notes of bruising that the original pathologist did not note in his initial report. The independent pathologist also said the ligature marks on Andre's death indicated he was strangled. The original pathologist disputes this and says it was consistent with a hanging. So who are we to believe here? For one, the independent pathologist was hired by Andre's parents. If you can think back to every UM case that involved a family who went out and hired an independent pathologist to reinvestigate their loved ones death, has there ever been a time where they ruled in agreement with the original autopsy? No. Because they're hired by the family to find things consistent with their (the family's) beliefs. It's that simple. Not to mention the fact that the state medical examiner was appointed to look into Andre's death (and several other inmates who died in jail under "mysterious" circumstances) and she concluded: "I think that it’s extremely unlikely that any of these deaths are anything other than suicide. All the deaths have been investigated by not just one agency but one or two or sometimes three." We have not one, but two investigations into Andre's death which both conclude suicide. And the original pathologist also says that Andre's case was reviewed by several other agencies (Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Dept of Justice, US Attorney's office, FBI, Attorney General of Mississippi) all agreed that his death was a suicide. As a matter of fact, the Justice Dept opened an investigation into the treatment of inmates in Mississippi jails and other than some "unsanitary conditions", they found no evidence that the hanging deaths were anything other than suicides.

I really can't give you a reason as to why Andre would have decided to end his life right then and there. I can only speculate. He was an 18 year old who was supposed to start college in a day, who was probably going to be in severe legal trouble and looked to be facing years in behind bars. Perhaps he thought his future ambitions were going to be swept away from him (college, career, family, etc.), or feared facing a long jail term sentence. Or maybe he knew he was in one of the roughest prisons in Mississippi, knew he was a "fish out of water", so maybe he was afraid of confrontations with the other inmates? Especially if they knew he was being very cooperative with police. Who knows? I think the embarassment of having to face his family after coming forward and admitting to being in a gang may have been another factor. The evidence for murder, IMO, just isn't there. Andre was in a cell with 12 other people. Out of the 12, only one comes forward and says Andre was taken out and brought back in a wheel chair? Why would the other inmates look on as Andre was being propped up to make his death look like a "suicide"? And why wouldn't they have came forward by now? Does the Mississippi prison system only hire violent sadists as their guards/police officers? For us to believe Andre was murdered, we must believe that he had the misfortune of pulling up on a DUI checkpoint, which was being administered by a goup of racist officers who conspired to arrest Andre on trumped up charges simply because they wanted to "lynch" him because his mother was a high ranking official in the local NAACP and/or because he stole a "white man's truck". We must also believe that all of the officers present at the scene sat back and agreed to partake in this little plan witout any dissension. Then, these officers also convinced the OTHER officers/guards at the county jail (40 miles away) that Andre Jones stole a white man's truck, so he must die. The guards at the county jail had no problem doing the other officers bidding, so since they too were violent racist sadists, decided to lynch him and make it look like a suicide. That's asking for a lot to be believed if you ask me. It's interesting how the UM segment makes it seem like the officers at the checkpoint targeted Andre (who then conspired to do harm to him because of the stolen truck), but then gloss over the fact that he was taken 40 miles away from the arresting officer/s to another location altogether. And geez, what luck for Andre Jones to have been transferred to the most racist prison in the state of Mississippi, filled to the rim with racist prison guards who have no problem lynching prisoners who stole a "white man's truck". For us to believe Andre Jones was murdered, we must be able to provide an answer to this question: why would the police/prison guards, other inmates, and the bureaucracy of the State of Mississippi have any reason in the world to do harm to Andre Jones, and then form some massive "pact" and keep it silenced/covered up for over twenty years? And that is what is the clincher for me. Who, out of everyone shown in the UM segment, had the biggest motive to take Andre Jones' life? Himself.

An interesting breakdown; thanks for sharing your thoughts TheCars1986.

Found an interesting article today (written back in the 90's) about this case. Apparently, the pathologist that Andre's family hired had relied on a description of Andre's body when it was found, and not an actual crime scene photo.

"In fact, evidence of homicide remains elusive. Dr. Bryant's finding of homicide relies largely on a jailer's description of the body and the condition of the cell, an account that is at odds with other reports from the scene."

And the other prisoners in that cell with him (I believe there was at least 12 other prisoners in the same cell) never once came forward and said that they heard a struggle, or anyone entering the cell for that matter.

"In interviews, neither investigators nor local reporters nor prisoners' lawyers related any reports of prisoners' seeing any jailers entering the cell or hearing a struggle. Dr. Bryant also agrees that there was no evidence of a struggle, like another person's skin beneath Andre Jones's fingernails."

The rest of the article is pretty interesting and actually says that suicides in the Mississippi jails were a fairly common due to a lack of safeguards within the prison system.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/21/us/death-in-a-jailhouse-the-ruling-a-suicide-the-fear-a-lynching.html

This one just reeked of murder.

So the police take pictures of Andre flashing gang signs, but don't make them available? Sure. And why were the cops "impressed" with his knowledge of gang signs? Do the police like gangs? Probably not.

I suppose things like the beer, the gun (if they exist), and the stolen truck are all debatable, but considering Andre had never been in trouble before and was due to start college, it's seems highly unlikely he would do all of those things.

The police learn who he's related to, quickly arrest him on what appear to be bogus charges, jail him, quickly transfer him to one of the most dangerous prisons in the state, where he quickly dies. Everything just moves too fast and is too sketchy and leaves me with a bad impression.

I seriously doubt he was able to hang himself with a shoelace. But the biggest nagging issue with the shoelace was that the mark that was left on him was consistent with someone else holding it and crossing the shoelace behind him. There's no way he could have done that on his own accord.

Considering all of the suspicious hanging deaths there and the state's wildly racist past (does it have a take-off of the Confederate flag as its state flag like most other states in that area)?

Murder.

Driving a stolen vehicle is a crime, even if you didn't know it was stolen. I highly doubt that these police officers actually recognized the last name of "Jones" (not common in the least) and decided to arrest him because they knew his parents were high ups in the local NAACP chapter.

I couldn't help but notice all of the so-called "experts" and such interviewed on the segment were all lily-white. There were 24 suspicious deaths of black men at the time, would it have killed them to get the opinion of a black person?

"An investigation by the US Justice Department cited Mississippi’s jail system for what they called “gross deficiencies,” including unsanitary conditions and untrained employees. But the report failed to find evidence that the Mississippi hangings were anything other than suicides."

The rest of the article is pretty interesting and actually says that suicides in the Mississippi jails were a fairly common due to a lack of safeguards within the prison system.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/21/us/death-in-a-jailhouse-the-ruling-a-suicide-the-fear-a-lynching.html

Now that is quite interesting. Coupled with the Justice Department's investigation findings of poorly trained employees, I can certainly see how this could be an explanation for the suicide rate.

However, I've always been highly suspicious of Jones' death. I do not at all think he committed suicide. Never have.

(does it have a take-off of the Confederate flag as its state flag like most other states in that area)?


The only state that does have a Confederate flag incorporated into its design is in fact Mississippi, yes. However, Georgia abandoned its "stars and bars" design well over a decade ago and was the only other state to have such a design incorporated into its flag after the Civil War. (Contrary to popular belief, the red "X" featured on the Alabama flag is in fact a St. Andrew's cross, which you may recognize as also being on the flag of Scotland.)

However, I've always been highly suspicious of Jones' death. I do not at all think he committed suicide. Never have.

Unless he was murdered by fellow prisoners, I don't see how this is anything but a suicide.

2 things that make me think the police & not Andre Jones' girlfriend could be lying is 1. The gun throwing & beer can story came after he was already dead. If he was murdered or killed accidentally by law enforcement I could see the wanting to spice up his character. 2. Why did it take so long to tell the parents what the charges we're? I believe they did not know the charges until after his death as well. Also, let's not forget that his mom was the president of the Mississippi NAACP & step dad was a minister of Islam. Mississippi has a long history of racial issues.

2 things that make me think the police & not Andre Jones' girlfriend could be lying is 1. The gun throwing & beer can story came after he was already dead.

According to what Jones told his mother. He repeatedly told her he didn't know what he was being charged with, which very well could have been a lie.

2. Why did it take so long to tell the parents what the charges we're? I believe they did not know the charges until after his death as well.

Because he wasn't telling his parents what he got busted for. He was driving a stolen truck, which is not in dispute at all. I don't think he knew it was stolen at the time, but regardless, it was a stolen truck. I don't understand why the police would then trump up charges about a handgun, as well as something as minuscule as an open container charge, unless they were actually true. His mother spoke to him at least 5 times while he was in jail. He died roughly 12 hours after his incarceration.

Also, let's not forget that his mom was the president of the Mississippi NAACP & step dad was a minister of Islam. Mississippi has a long history of racial issues.

He was driving a stolen truck, and his last name was Jones. You really think that some racist cops at a check point are going to recognize him as the son of the president of the local branch of the NAACP and step-son of a NOI (deemed a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center) minister? I think the parents should have had a civil case against the jail due to no safeguards being in place to monitor the prisoners to reduce the risk of suicide, but I don't think this was anything other than a suicide.

So your take is that even though some of the things in the case may seem strange it was a suicide because the police said so and the dead man's girlfriend is a liar because the police would never lie? Are you in law enforcement? From Mississippi? Or both? Like you said. It is beyond dispute that the truck was stolen. But, we have no idea if he knew this or not.

Another thing that is hard to believe. Supposedly this kid was showing the cops gang signs and letting them take pictures of him doing it. He supposedly was in a good mood while doing this. Then decides to hang himself with a flipping shoe string? They refuse to release the pictures. Does that make any sense to any reasonable person? Supposedly, there were numerous cops at this check point. Yet this guy pulled his truck over in front of them and threw a gun out. If(<key word) the reenactment was accurate, and it could have not been, i dont believe anyone could have been that stupid. Doing it that blatantly. If he did why wouldn't they tell anyone and everyone who asked what happened about It?

So your take is that even though some of the things in the case may seem strange it was a suicide because the police said so and the dead man's girlfriend is a liar because the police would never lie? Are you in law enforcement? From Mississippi? Or both? Like you said. It is beyond dispute that the truck was stolen. But, we have no idea if he knew this or not.

The police, the other prisoners in the holding cell with him, a pathologist, the FBI, a newly appointed State medical examiner, and the Department of Justice concluded it was a suicide. I never called Tanisha a liar. Her account of the huddle is probably accurate, as well as the police asking for his license one final time before taking him out of the car and arresting him. In addition to the stolen truck, he didn't have a license on him. The only items in dispute, IIRC, were the gun and the open container. And I see no reason for the police to lie about this, considering they already had him on the stolen truck and driving without a license charges. I am not in law enforcement.

Another thing that is hard to believe. Supposedly this kid was showing the cops gang signs and letting them take pictures of him doing it. He supposedly was in a good mood while doing this. Then decides to hang himself with a flipping shoe string? They refuse to release the pictures. Does that make any sense to any reasonable person?

Makes sense to me. Andre wants to cooperate with the police, so he shows them gang signs probably taught to him by friends. Let's be honest, the friend that loaned him the truck that night probably knew that the truck was stolen. Meaning Andre had to have some interaction with unsavory characters. After doing this, he realizes that not only is his future in college in doubt (he was supposed to start the very next day), but also fears retribution from his "friends" for being a snitch. He was potentially facing several years in jail.


Supposedly, there were numerous cops at this check point. Yet this guy pulled his truck over in front of them and threw a gun out. If(<key word) the reenactment was accurate, and it could have not been, i dont believe anyone could have been that stupid. Doing it that blatantly. If he did why wouldn't they tell anyone and everyone who asked what happened about It?

I doubt the re-enactment was accurate, because as you say, it would be incredibly stupid for him to do that. When Andre's parents filed their lawsuit (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ms-supreme-court/1045828.html), none of those charges were in dispute. The stolen vehicle, altering a VIN number (not mentioned on UM), a city beer ordinance, and concealed weapon charges are all mentioned and not in dispute.

Not really buying this as a murder-the guy was driving a stolen vehicle without a licence, was observed throwing a gun-one assumes an unlicensed gun out of the window & had an open alcohol container in the vehicle-he was plainly up to no good.

Let's get serious, if you are going to kill a black guy because you are supposedly all a bunch of racists who hate blacks then why on earth would you choose to kill the son of a prominent black activist to where it would get massive amounts of publicity?

The Nation Of Islam guy throws in some rumour of him being taken out of the cell, taken elsewhere & then being bought back in a wheelchair-if this were true then the amount of damage done to his legs & feet would be astronomical & would have obviously been noted at autopsy. Then you have the issue of 11 or so other people in the cell & not one of them have come forward to say that a cop or another prisoner killed Andre. Also you have to assume that the only way in was through the front & that there was no entrance on this side bit where the showers & toilet where, which could feasibly have allowed a cop to enter & kill him without being seen or heard, although unlikely.

Not really buying this as a murder-the guy was driving a stolen vehicle without a licence, was observed throwing a gun-one assumes an unlicensed gun out of the window & had an open alcohol container in the vehicle-he was plainly up to no good.

Let's get serious, if you are going to kill a black guy because you are supposedly all a bunch of racists who hate blacks then why on earth would you choose to kill the son of a prominent black activist to where it would get massive amounts of publicity?

The Nation Of Islam guy throws in some rumour of him being taken out of the cell, taken elsewhere & then being bought back in a wheelchair-if this were true then the amount of damage done to his legs & feet would be astronomical & would have obviously been noted at autopsy. Then you have the issue of 11 or so other people in the cell & not one of them have come forward to say that a cop or another prisoner killed Andre. Also you have to assume that the only way in was through the front & that there was no entrance on this side bit where the showers & toilet where, which could feasibly have allowed a cop to enter & kill him without being seen or heard, although unlikely.

This whole post is a no for me, dog.

The girlfriend said Andre didn't throw a gun, or didn't have any alcohol. I believe her as the police said Andre threw up gang signs for the police but they never showed the photos on UM. If Andre was as "gangsta" as they tried to make him out to be, why was he crying for his mother and ready to go to college? They were clearly lying to make more charges stick.

Its possible whoever killed Andre didn't know that his parents were apart of the NAACP. They said that a bunch of prisoners were murdered or found hanging at that prison, Andre wasn't the only one. Andre could've been killed by a cop, or another inmate who had no idea about his parents. This was in the deep south I'm sure some of the inmates were racist. He could've been killed by a black man.

Also most prisoners aren't going to snitch. Snitching while staying in that same prison would be a deathwish.

He was killed.

This whole post is a no for me, dog.

The girlfriend said Andre didn't throw a gun, or didn't have any alcohol. I believe her as the police said Andre threw up gang signs for the police but they never showed the photos on UM. If Andre was as "gangsta" as they tried to make him out to be, why was he crying for his mother and ready to go to college? They were clearly lying to make more charges stick.

Its possible whoever killed Andre didn't know that his parents were apart of the NAACP. They said that a bunch of prisoners were murdered or found hanging at that prison, Andre wasn't the only one. Andre could've been killed by a cop, or another inmate who had no idea about his parents. This was in the deep south I'm sure some of the inmates were racist. He could've been killed by a black man.

Also most prisoners aren't going to snitch. Snitching while staying in that same prison would be a deathwish.

He was killed.

Problem is we only have her word for that & she is hardly likely to be telling the truth & how often have we seen people claiming police brutality, police sexually assaulting them, police planting evidence etc & then the unedited footage from the police bodycams shows nothing irregular?

As for the gang signs stuff it was most likely a kid with some booze in him showing off that he was a bad boy in with bad people, when in reality he was a scared teen making random signs that a bunch of hillbilly cops would have no idea what he was doing. It is also highly likely that like a lot of families they are in denial-that their son couldn't possibly be mixing with the wrong people, that he couldn't possibly have took his own life, that shoelaces cannot form a sufficient ligature etc.

How many times do we hear parents who often have little to no clue what their kids are up to say that their child would never do drugs, would never attack anybody etc when the reality is very different? The segment came across as trying to paint him as a saint because his step father was in the nation & he was going to college.

Sure snitching in jail isn't going to help you, but of all the people in that cell none of them has ever come forward to accuse any other prisoner or prison officer of it, that just isn't realistic after 25 plus years.

Problem is we only have her word for that & she is hardly likely to be telling the truth & how often have we seen people claiming police brutality, police sexually assaulting them, police planting evidence etc & then the unedited footage from the police bodycams shows nothing irregular?

As for the gang signs stuff it was most likely a kid with some booze in him showing off that he was a bad boy in with bad people, when in reality he was a scared teen making random signs that a bunch of hillbilly cops would have no idea what he was doing. It is also highly likely that like a lot of families they are in denial-that their son couldn't possibly be mixing with the wrong people, that he couldn't possibly have took his own life, that shoelaces cannot form a sufficient ligature etc.

How many times do we hear parents who often have little to no clue what their kids are up to say that their child would never do drugs, would never attack anybody etc when the reality is very different? The segment came across as trying to paint him as a saint because his step father was in the nation & he was going to college.

Sure snitching in jail isn't going to help you, but of all the people in that cell none of them has ever come forward to accuse any other prisoner or prison officer of it, that just isn't realistic after 25 plus years.

How many times have the police actually been caught being scumbags?

I find it hard to believe that a teen who was constantly calling his mother and was looking forward to college AND had parents in the NAACP would go through the daunting task of hanging himself with a shoestring. That's not easy.

As far as someone coming forward, he could've been killed and no one saw anything and the wheelchair story was crap.

They also said that some other men were found dead in that same prison via hanging. Coincidence? I think not

Unfortunately most people will let politics and race cloud their common sense with a case like this. I'm not saying Andre was a great kid, but just like those other prisoners who were found dead, I think he was murdered.

Indeed, but on the other hand we cannot assume that every cop in an area is racist, corrupt etc just because there is a reputation of it there. We also cannot assume that just because a black person says something it is the truth because they are black.

Suicides are very common in prisons, here in the UK there are a huge number of people-usually male, white, black & Asian who have taken their own lives while in custody or young offenders institutions. I don't see why any of his family in a movement would have any bearing on his mental state, the thing about depression/suicidal thoughts is it often isn't visible-often people are reported as being happy & without a care in the world & next thing they are found at the bottom of Beachy Head or in their garage with the engine going & no air supply coming in. Often people will go & get their hair cut before killing themselves-it makes no sense but it happens.

Maybe he had undiagnosed health problems, maybe he felt shame for the bad choices he made that night, maybe he thought he was stuck in the jail for weeks or months cramped in with eleven other guys 23 hours a day & that nobody including his powerful stepdad could get him out.

I think we can safely say the wheelchair story was total bs designed to inflame the situation & gleefully retold by the NOI guy who seemed to have an agenda. I think the problem was this case was made political & racial by his family & their involvement in a right wing group.

Suicides are very common in prisons, here in the UK there are a huge number of people-usually male, white, black & Asian who have taken their own lives while in custody or young offenders institutions.

Exactly. The segment says as much. Half of the suicides in the jails in Mississippi were white people, the other half black.

I think the problem was this case was made political & racial by his family & their involvement in a right wing group.

Bingo.

Indeed, but on the other hand we cannot assume that every cop in an area is racist, corrupt etc just because there is a reputation of it there. We also cannot assume that just because a black person says something it is the truth because they are black.

Suicides are very common in prisons, here in the UK there are a huge number of people-usually male, white, black & Asian who have taken their own lives while in custody or young offenders institutions. I don't see why any of his family in a movement would have any bearing on his mental state, the thing about depression/suicidal thoughts is it often isn't visible-often people are reported as being happy & without a care in the world & next thing they are found at the bottom of Beachy Head or in their garage with the engine going & no air supply coming in. Often people will go & get their hair cut before killing themselves-it makes no sense but it happens.

Maybe he had undiagnosed health problems, maybe he felt shame for the bad choices he made that night, maybe he thought he was stuck in the jail for weeks or months cramped in with eleven other guys 23 hours a day & that nobody including his powerful stepdad could get him out.

I think we can safely say the wheelchair story was total bs designed to inflame the situation & gleefully retold by the NOI guy who seemed to have an agenda. I think the problem was this case was made political & racial by his family & their involvement in a right wing group.


The reason I said that the NAACP would be a sign of relief by Andre is because he knew that they had a high chance of getting him out. Its like if you got busted with a speeding ticket but your dad was a cop. I agree with the racial element that his family put on this case, so for the sake of this argument let's remove all of the racial bigotry set up by his family, and let's assume that none of the cops and inmates weren't racist. Let's just assume Andre was white and let's look at this without any outside influence.

Now, I understand the logic of thinking he committed suicide. He's 18 and this was his first time in prison. He was set to go college the next day and he started panicking as he thought all of his dreams and future was vanishing so he takes his shoelace and hangs himself.

A couple of problems, and being realistic. Why did he call his parents as much as he did if he felt his future was that bleak? This was his first time in prison. Sure he was scared and panicking, but enough to commit suicide? He wasn't even given a jail sentence. I assume the people who commit suicide are people with lengthy sentences, or people who hurt children as they know they'll be hurt by the other prisoners.

He was in jail, not prison. He was in nothing more than a holding cell. And if Andre was so afraid of his parents for getting arrested then why did he keep calling? Sure, driving a stolen truck is a serious offence, but it wasn't like he committed murder.

Also take a shoestring and see how difficult it is to hang yourself with.

Honestly, I can see the logic for the people who think he committed suicide, but I disagree. I don't know who killed Andre or why, but they said that this particular prison and the sheriff was suspicious as other men were found dead the same way.

If he was in a cell on his own I would think the murder theory was highly likely-but the sheer number of other people in there & not one of them has spoken out since makes it impossible to see how it was anything other than a suicide.

He was likely calling his parents because he was scared & wanted out, as you say this was not some hardened offender, but a young kid being locked up with career criminals-prison is a frightening prospect. Not usually-over here the suicides are mostly people in his age bracket, often in for trivial matters. An 18 year old with no life experience will not likely see a charge of driving unlicensed & even possession of a firearm being somewhat trivial seeing as he was a first time offender-in his case it was likely made worse by the whitey is out to get the black man rhetoric he would have been exposed to & likely thought he would get a hanging judge who would lock him up for 20 years or more.

A regular thin shoestring would be more troublesome, but the laces they put on those trainers are really thick & durable, the trainer company even did testing & found it could happen. What we find with these suicides is certainly that the institutions are badly run.

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/WhatWeDo/ProjectsResearch/Mentalhealth/TroubledInside/Deadinside

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prison-suicides-teenage-home-office-deaths-osvaldas-pagirys-mental-health-support-care-a8221656.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/01/inquest-figures-65-young-people-died-detention-four-years

If he was in a cell on his own I would think the murder theory was highly likely-but the sheer number of other people in there & not one of them has spoken out since makes it impossible to see how it was anything other than a suicide.

He was likely calling his parents because he was scared & wanted out, as you say this was not some hardened offender, but a young kid being locked up with career criminals-prison is a frightening prospect. Not usually-over here the suicides are mostly people in his age bracket, often in for trivial matters. An 18 year old with no life experience will not likely see a charge of driving unlicensed & even possession of a firearm being somewhat trivial seeing as he was a first time offender-in his case it was likely made worse by the whitey is out to get the black man rhetoric he would have been exposed to & likely thought he would get a hanging judge who would lock him up for 20 years or more.

A regular thin shoestring would be more troublesome, but the laces they put on those trainers are really thick & durable, the trainer company even did testing & found it could happen. What we find with these suicides is certainly that the institutions are badly run.

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/WhatWeDo/ProjectsResearch/Mentalhealth/TroubledInside/Deadinside

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prison-suicides-teenage-home-office-deaths-osvaldas-pagirys-mental-health-support-care-a8221656.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/01/inquest-figures-65-young-people-died-detention-four-years

Him being in a cell by himself would make the murder theory less believable, not more. If he was by himself, then it's easier to say that he committed suicide.

He was in a cell with a number of other men, making the murder theory more believable. It's possible that he went to take a shower or use the bathroom and someone went in behind him and killed him. It's also possible that someone else didn't see the other person go in behind him.

You also can't take the fact that no one came forward as a theory as to why he committed suicide. This is prison, not a missionary. Not all prisoners are going to snitch, especially if they're afraid for their own hides. Maybe some other prisoners do know what happened but just kept their lips sealed, perhaps they really didn't see anything as the shower area was away from the cell area.

Even with trainer shoestrings it's still hard to hang yourself from the pipe he was found hanging from.

For us to believe Andre Jones was murdered, we must be able to provide an answer to this question: why would the police/prison guards, other inmates, and the bureaucracy of the State of Mississippi have any reason in the world to do harm to Andre Jones, and then form some massive "pact" and keep it silenced/covered up for over twenty years? And that is what is the clincher for me. Who, out of everyone shown in the UM segment, had the biggest motive to take Andre Jones' life? Himself.

This is also the clincher for me as well. In watching this segment again, the murder theory relies on so many coincidences, it strains credulity. The biggest one for me is the number of players that all have to be acting in concert.

Not to ignore the fact there are bad/racist cops out there, to believe that one group (those running the DUI checkpoint) had knowledge of who was who among the local civil rights landscape and were able to connect the dots to Andre without any sort of documentation (drivers license etc) is hard enough.

Believing that there was another like-minded group working at a jail in an entirely separate jurisdiction and both groups, without any prior interaction, decided to conspire to murder Andre on the fly is harder.

The fact that these 2 separate groups of LEOs managed to keep it covered up for 20+ years is damn near impossible, esp. in light of the fact the official autopsy results were confirmed by multiple state and federal agencies (some or all of which would have to be complicit to some degree in order to maintain the cover-up).

And as far as the whole gang sign thing goes? All the comments from the police about him being so congenial and cooperative really make no sense--if they wanted to fabricate some extra dirt or otherwise paint him in a negative light and they wanted to make all that stick, they would've left that out.

To me, I think he was straight-laced for the most part, but had some bad friends or otherwise hung out with some bad people. He wanted to take his girl out one weekend and so borrowed the truck from one of these unsavory types. He could've been drinking, sure. I don't think the gun was his though - I think it belonged to whoever he borrowed the truck from.

Either way, he ended up rolling through a run-of-the-mill DUI checkpoint and getting pinched. With his negative associations (the truck being stolen & the gun in it) coming back to bite him in the ass, he starts to panic.

He lies to his parents to cover himself and then volunteers the gang information to the police in the hopes of buying himself some leniency or otherwise getting off easier. He doesn't though and ends up facing some serious time. I think at this point, he lacked the coping skills to deal with that crushing realization and that's what drove him to hang himself (possibly being seen as a snitch by other inmates couldn't have helped either).

He doesn't though and ends up facing some serious time. I think at this point, he lacked the coping skills to deal with that crushing realization and that's what drove him to hang himself (possibly being seen as a snitch by other inmates couldn't have helped either).

How did he know he was going to face serious time when he wasn't given a trial yet? His parents didn't even have time to make it to the prison when he was alive.

I won't sugarcoat it, I think Andre wasn't an innocent teen as his parents tried to portray him to be. We see this all the time on the news how the parents say "he was a good boy" when he wasn't. I think Andre was into gang life and probably into some minor stuff.

Having said that, I think he was murdered. It's not a coincidence that multiple prisoners "mysteriously" committed suicide all the same way in the same prison.

How did he know he was going to face serious time when he wasn't given a trial yet? His parents didn't even have time to make it to the prison when he was alive.

I won't sugarcoat it, I think Andre wasn't an innocent teen as his parents tried to portray him to be. We see this all the time on the news how the parents say "he was a good boy" when he wasn't. I think Andre was into gang life and probably into some minor stuff.

Having said that, I think he was murdered. It's not a coincidence that multiple prisoners "mysteriously" committed suicide all the same way in the same prison.

This is pretty close to my feelings on this case, too.

I generally lean toward it being another person in that holding cell that murdered Jones. I also lean toward the notion that the circumstances leading up to this were created by acts of omission rather than commission by corrections personnel at all levels. I think understaffing and underpay were likely factors. I think poor training was a likely factor. I think underfunding was a likely factor, and either directly or indirectly, perhaps racism. I don't think the system necessarily conspired to have this young man killed, but I think it allowed conditions ripe for such a thing to occur.

This is pretty close to my feelings on this case, too.

I generally lean toward it being another person in that holding cell that murdered Jones. I also lean toward the notion that the circumstances leading up to this were created by acts of omission rather than commission by corrections personnel at all levels. I think understaffing and underpay were likely factors. I think poor training was a likely factor. I think underfunding was a likely factor, and either directly or indirectly, perhaps racism. I don't think the system necessarily conspired to have this young man killed, but I think it allowed conditions ripe for such a thing to occur.

Agreed. I also think another prisoner murdered Andre, but the police covered it up as a suicide so they wouldn't come under heat

Agreed. I also think another prisoner murdered Andre, but the police covered it up as a suicide so they wouldn't come under heat

But that's precisely what happened. The police, corrections staff, medical examiner, etc. were all accused (on national television) of murdering this kid and covering it up to make it look like a suicide. If the corrections staff knew, or suspected that a fellow inmate murdered Andre, I don't see why they would have covered it up to protect said inmate.

ETA: I could absolutely see this as a murder if 2 inmates, alone with Andre on one side of the L-shaped holding cell, strangled him and then hung his body up to make it look like he committed suicide. And the lack of safeguards within the prison (and the general indifference of the staff) helped the murder go undetected.

But that's precisely what happened. The police, corrections staff, medical examiner, etc. were all accused (on national television) of murdering this kid and covering it up to make it look like a suicide. If the corrections staff knew, or suspected that a fellow inmate murdered Andre, I don't see why they would have covered it up to protect said inmate.

ETA: I could absolutely see this as a murder if 2 inmates, alone with Andre on one side of the L-shaped holding cell, strangled him and then hung his body up to make it look like he committed suicide. And the lack of safeguards within the prison (and the general indifference of the staff) helped the murder go undetected.

These are great points, along with what Meg said. I can totally see this as more of neglect by officers and poor institutional policies and controls that allowed other prisoners to murder him. That was probably exacerbated by a poor investigation after the fact and taking the easy assumption that he killed himself so they could close the case.

So the jail employees aren't innocent, but as Meg said this is more of a crime of omission than commission by the authorities. The real killers were most likely the inmates themselves.

ETA: I could absolutely see this as a murder if 2 inmates, alone with Andre on one side of the L-shaped holding cell, strangled him and then hung his body up to make it look like he committed suicide. And the lack of safeguards within the prison (and the general indifference of the staff) helped the murder go undetected.

This is exactly where I'm at with this

Steve Haynes has been suspected of perjury. It’s quite evident this young man was the victim of foul play. Whether it were the police or the inmate is up to speculation. Either way, the police are covering up a homicide to save their own behinds. Only the most hardcore bootlicker or outright racist will think otherwise. RIP to the other prisoners who committed “suicide” in Mississippi as well.