Back in the early days they did 39 episodes a year. Gradually they cut back and now the average for a full season is 22. Which do you all prefer? I think back then there was less money in TV so they could afford to do all those shows. Hence a show that only ran 3 seasons could have more than what a current show would produce in 5 years.

I don't mind 22. I'd rather 22 with some care given to quality than 39 that are slapped together.

In some cases I'd even welcome less. The English shows might only have 8. Cable shows also have fewer than 22.

Some US shows should try that. Like do a timeshare of a timeslot. 8 successive weeks of one show, 8 weeks of another, 8 weeks of a third then recycle each one's reruns.

NBC used to do somehting like this with quite a few dramas in the 70s but they would rotate them every week: One week Columbo, one week McMillan, one week McCloud, one week a second Columbo etc. That wouldn't be too good for sitcom continuity now, but those dramas ran in that anthological format for many years.

a lot of today's cable shows (and cable series are beginning to get more popular than network series', ever since the networks have gotten so stuck on the reality fad) are doing much shorter seasons than the networks have. The Shield, Sopranos and Six Feet Under have all won awards, all of which have 13 episodes a year.

I do think 6-8 episodes a season, like the British shows do, is TOO SHORT. Sex And The City had an 8 episode season a few years ago to accomidate Sarah Jessica Parker's pregnancy (the other seasons have been, 12, 18 to 20 episodes) and that season felt way too short, that a lot of us don't actually consider it a season to itself, but more or less either an extension of season 4, or a prelude to season 6. I don't think you can satisfy fans with only 6-8 episodes a season, it's not enough. The 5th season of S&TC was proof of that, it felt way too short.

I prefer 22 a year and having more seasons, than more shows a season and fewer seasons.

Batman is a strange case of a show that did a lot of episodes in a very short span of time. From Jan 1966 to Mar 1968 there were 120 episodes. Half of these were in the fall 1966-67 season. Less is more.

Originally posted by jamesanthony
Batman is a strange case of a show that did a lot of episodes in a very short span of time. From Jan 1966 to Mar 1968 there were 120 episodes. Half of these were in the fall 1966-67 season. Less is more.

that is weird, Charmed's been on since October 1998, and they just hit episode #120 in January.

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
that is weird, Charmed's been on since October 1998, and they just hit episode #120 in January.

An even stranger case is the primetime soap Peyton Place which ran 5 seasons from 1964-69, aired as many as 3 times a week and as far as I know ran year-round (no reruns- someone correct me on this if I am wrong). www.tvtome.com says that the first episode of the 4th season was #435. They must have had close to 600 episodes in 5 seasons.

I would say 26, actually. If a half season order is considered 13 episodes, then a full season should be 26.

I like ABC's new strategy of upping the order of sitcoms to something like 28 or 30.

My favorite current show has 24 episodes a season....
but there's only one episode of the entire series left, so it doesnt really matter anymore.


I would like 30 episodes a season for LOTS of seasons.
the more the merrier.

Originally posted by tvobscurities
I would say 26, actually. If a half season order is considered 13 episodes, then a full season should be 26.

The only time the average show had 26 was the late 60s. If you have 26 some won't get reran because shows are usually pre-empted at some point during a season for specials like the Oscars, World Series, some news event etc. UPN and WB shows don't get pre-empted for these types of things so they could have 26, but they won't because it's cheaper to just rerun a few episodes 2 times instead of once in a year.

Originally posted by jamesanthony
An even stranger case is the primetime soap Peyton Place which ran 5 seasons from 1964-69, aired as many as 3 times a week and as far as I know ran year-round (no reruns- someone correct me on this if I am wrong). www.tvtome.com says that the first episode of the 4th season was #435. They must have had close to 600 episodes in 5 seasons.

You're right about them not airing reruns during the summer, at least according to the episode guide (http://members.tripod.com/MARVIN1934/) I found. By the end of its run, it had 514 episodes. (It aired once a week for most of its last season)

Originally posted by Sean Snow
You're right about them not airing reruns during the summer, at least according to the episode guide (http://members.tripod.com/MARVIN1934/) I found. By the end of its run, it had 514 episodes. (It aired once a week for most of its last season)

That episode guide looks pretty authentic. Someone must be a real fan of that show which I'm guessing hasn't played much in reruns in a while.

Actually the daytime soaps would produce 52 times 5 = 260 episodes a season which is a heck of a lot of episodes!!!

Originally posted by jamesanthony
The only time the average show had 26 was the late 60s. If you have 26 some won't get reran because shows are usually pre-empted at some point during a season for specials like the Oscars, World Series, some news event etc.

There were shows in the 80s and 90s with 26 episodes per season, but not the average show. Mostly Star Trek. Star Trek: The Next Generation was 26 episodes each season, excluding Season Two due to the writer's strike. The same can be said for Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager, which each had 26 episode seasons excluding their first seasons.

UPN and WB shows don't get pre-empted for these types of things so they could have 26, but they won't because it's cheaper to just rerun a few episodes 2 times instead of once in a year.

Star Trek: Voyager was on UPN and, as mentioned above, had 6 out of 7 seasons with 26 episodes per season. The first two seasons of Star Trek: Enterprise had 26 episodes, the third, currently winding down, has 24. The first season of American dreams had 25 episodes, the second season had 19 because of lower ratings. But again, not the average show. Cheers, Friends, Seinfeld, M*A*S*H, Everybody Loves Raymond and Frasier all fluctuated between 22 and 26 episodes per season. I think the average is between 22 and 24 for shows that last a full season, but when you plug in all those that last half a season or less the average goes down.

Pre-emptions may be part of the equation regarding how many episodes a season there are and the average today is 22, yes. I think it has more to do with sweeps months and ratings than pre-emptions. The networks are so stuck on ratings that they build their shows around the sweeps months, have the biggest laughs, biggest guests, biggest surprises during those months, because that's when the ratings count more. This is the reason I hate ratings.

By the by, The Rebel back in 1959-1961 had two seasons, the first with 36 episodes running October '59 to June '60 and the second with 40 running September of '60 to June of '61. Interesting.

And for those interested, I went and took the episode number for thirty shows airing during the 2003/2004 season:

24 - 24
Seventh Heaven - 23
All Of Us - 23
American Dreams - 19
Arrested Development - 22
Charmed - 23
Cold Case - 23
CSI - 23
CSI: Miami - 24
ER - 22
Everwood - 22
Everybody Loves Raymond - 25
Frasier - 24
Gilmore Girls - 22
Hope and Faith - 25
JAG - 22
Joan of Arcadia - 23
King Of Queens - 24
Law and Order - 24
Malcolm In The Middle - 22
Navy NCIS - 23
One Tree Hill - 22
Rock Me Baby - 22
Scrubs - 22
The Simpsons - 22
Star Trek: Enterprise - 24
That 70's Show - 25
Two and A Half Men - 24
The West Wing - 22
Will & Grace - 24

The average episode number was 22.9, which is more or less 23.

Originally posted by tvobscurities
There were shows in the 80s and 90s with 26 episodes per season, but not the average show. Mostly Star Trek. Star Trek: The Next Generation was 26 episodes each season, excluding Season Two due to the writer's strike. The same can be said for Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager, which each had 26 episode seasons excluding their first seasons.



Star Trek: Voyager was on UPN and, as mentioned above, had 6 out of 7 seasons with 26 episodes per season. The first two seasons of Star Trek: Enterprise had 26 episodes, the third, currently winding down, has 24. The first season of American dreams had 25 episodes, the second season had 19 because of lower ratings. But again, not the average show. Cheers, Friends, Seinfeld, M*A*S*H, Everybody Loves Raymond and Frasier all fluctuated between 22 and 26 episodes per season. I think the average is between 22 and 24 for shows that last a full season, but when you plug in all those that last half a season or less the average goes down.

Pre-emptions may be part of the equation regarding how many episodes a season there are and the average today is 22, yes. I think it has more to do with sweeps months and ratings than pre-emptions. The networks are so stuck on ratings that they build their shows around the sweeps months, have the biggest laughs, biggest guests, biggest surprises during those months, because that's when the ratings count more. This is the reason I hate ratings.

By the by, The Rebel back in 1959-1961 had two seasons, the first with 36 episodes running October '59 to June '60 and the second with 40 running September of '60 to June of '61. Interesting.

And for those interested, I went and took the episode number for thirty shows airing during the 2003/2004 season:

24 - 24
Seventh Heaven - 23
All Of Us - 23
American Dreams - 19
Arrested Development - 22
Charmed - 23
Cold Case - 23
CSI - 23
CSI: Miami - 24
ER - 22
Everwood - 22
Everybody Loves Raymond - 25
Frasier - 24
Gilmore Girls - 22
Hope and Faith - 25
JAG - 22
Joan of Arcadia - 23
King Of Queens - 24
Law and Order - 24
Malcolm In The Middle - 22
Navy NCIS - 23
One Tree Hill - 22
Rock Me Baby - 22
Scrubs - 22
The Simpsons - 22
Star Trek: Enterprise - 24
That 70's Show - 25
Two and A Half Men - 24
The West Wing - 22
Will & Grace - 24

The average episode number was 22.9, which is more or less 23.



Wow! That's good info. I know shows that get higher ratings tend to get more eps and/or tend to be pre-empted less often.

Originally posted by jamesanthony
Wow! That's good info. I know shows that get higher ratings tend to get more eps and/or tend to be pre-empted less often.

That's quite true. If a show is doing well, or at least better than expected, the episode order will be increased, as was the case this season with some ABC sitcoms, I believe, and last season with American Dreams. On the flipside, orders can be trimmed, as with American Dreams this season and I think Star Trek: Enterprise this season.

As an aside, and not to single you out, but why did you quote my entire post, which was quite long? I've noticed this a lot and I'm just curious what the reasoning is for doing so.

Primetime soaps were able to make a lot of episodes in their runs. "Dallas" made 357 in 13 seasons, "Dynasty" made 219 in 8 seasons, "Knots Landing" had 344 in 14 seasons. The most amazing imo is "Melrose Place" which made 227 episodes in just 7 seasons!

Daytime soaps DO have a lot of eps. My fave, "All My Children," is close to 9000 episodes, and it has been on since 1970.

Originally posted by JT

Daytime soaps DO have a lot of eps. My fave, "All My Children," is close to 9000 episodes, and it has been on since 1970.

I wonder how their DVD packages would look, 100 discs costing thousands of dollars.

I think if they ever do try to put soaps on DVD in a regular basis, they should do it by year, but instead of releasing the whole year in one big set, they release each month seperately, but simultaneously. Soaps make around 20 eps a month, so that'd be perfect.

Would soap reruns sell well on DVD? They don't rerun well. I don't know if there would be enough of a demand for them. Once you've seen who killed so-and-so or who is cheating with whom it's like the suspense is gone.

Dallas and Dynasty were the two highest rated dramas of the 80s overall, yet you hardly hear of them now.

Originally posted by JT
I think if they ever do try to put soaps on DVD in a regular basis, they should do it by year, but instead of releasing the whole year in one big set, they release each month seperately, but simultaneously. Soaps make around 20 eps a month, so that'd be perfect.

Dont get me wrong -- im the BIGGEST supporter of TV on DVD.
But I dont think daytime soaps would do well at ALL on DVD.

Sure some would buy it -- but you'd have to be VERY rich to afford it all. 12 months a year x 30 years = 360 sets.

At about $20 each = $7,200.


But the money thing isnt the problem -- I dont think theres enough time for someone to watch an entire 30+ year soap.

You obviously know NOTHING about us crazy soap fans! LOL!
We'd all KILL to see classic soap goodness! There have been SO many classic storylines that would sell well. Marlena's Posession on "Days of our Lives" is from 1994/1995 and almost all DAYS fans love that storyline and would buy the episodes pertaining to it. Just because we know what's going to happen, doesn't mean we wouldn't want to enjoy the acting and writing. Some storylines have such rewatchability.

And about "Dallas" and "Dynasty," they are working on a feature film version of the Ewing clan and a behind-the-scenes TV movie about the Carringtons. They'd sell well, imo. Both shows are more popular than such shows as "Starsky & Hutch" and "Little House on the Prairie," and they are on DVD shelves. BTW, I like both LHOTP and S&H.

My above post was in response to jamesanthony.

Here's my respone to barwars88:

Diehard fans would buy all the sets, but I think the sets would sell better seperately because of the storylines depicted in them. For instance, someone might want to buy a set featuring the preperations of the marriage and the actual marriage of GH's Luke and Laura from November 1981, but not nessecarily a storyline that aired earlier in the year; whereas someone would buy the earlier story but not nessecarily the Luke and Laura stuff.

Sometimes I think people under estimate us diehard daytime fans. There are multi MILLIONS of us who have followed these shows for over ten, sometimes twenty, sometimes thirty, sometimes even forty years, and we'd jump at the chance to see something classic.

The sets don't even have to come out all the time. The first year of Y&R could be sold, and they can decide if they would put out the next year after seeing the first year's sells.

Despite low ratings Dallas and Dynasty has aired pretty consistently since they went off the air. Dallas was in local syndication where I lived in the mid 1980's and then it was on TNT followed by TNN and now Soapnet. They are talking about a feature movie and it was reported on one of the Dallas sites than Warner Brothers is working on getting the first season out on DVD. Dynasty also was seen locally followed by runs on FX and Soapnet. Considering they are serial dramas I think they have done pretty good in syndication.

Originally posted by JT
My above post was in response to jamesanthony.

Here's my respone to barwars88:

Diehard fans would buy all the sets, but I think the sets would sell better seperately because of the storylines depicted in them. For instance, someone might want to buy a set featuring the preperations of the marriage and the actual marriage of GH's Luke and Laura from November 1981, but not nessecarily a storyline that aired earlier in the year; whereas someone would buy the earlier story but not nessecarily the Luke and Laura stuff.

Sometimes I think people under estimate us diehard daytime fans. There are multi MILLIONS of us who have followed these shows for over ten, sometimes twenty, sometimes thirty, sometimes even forty years, and we'd jump at the chance to see something classic.

The sets don't even have to come out all the time. The first year of Y&R could be sold, and they can decide if they would put out the next year after seeing the first year's sells.

Ohh i understand fans would love to buy the show on DVD.
I just think if someone were to buy the entire series on DVD.... they'd be watching the show FOREVER.
But thats just me.

I think Daytime Soaps will eventually come to DVD, but not until HD-DVD when something like 20 hours can fit on one disk.
Then they could release an entire year for something on 12 discs for something like $150-$200.... and you still get a sh*tload of episodes.

I think 39 episodes is too many but 22 is WAY too short. Somewhere around 30 would be nice. My guess is that there are about 40 weeks in a TV season from September-May, that means nearly half of those weeks are not new episodes of a TV show. Having a 22 minute sitcom 22 weeks a year is NOT enough but what can you do with how cheap networks and companies are now

I prefer 39 a season because you get more storylines and other things. I'd like to produce a show with a lot of episodes. the ABC ordered the largest this season going up to about 29.

I want to see TV go back to those rotating blocks, like the NBC Mystery Movie, where McCloud, McMillan and Wife, and 1 or 2 others shared the same time slot.

Though I do tend to like a lot of new episodes.

Originally posted by barwars88
Dont get me wrong -- im the BIGGEST supporter of TV on DVD.
But I dont think daytime soaps would do well at ALL on DVD.

Sure some would buy it -- but you'd have to be VERY rich to afford it all. 12 months a year x 30 years = 360 sets.

At about $20 each = $7,200.


But the money thing isnt the problem -- I dont think theres enough time for someone to watch an entire 30+ year soap.

Same goes for game shows with 2000+ episodes. But I sure as hell would max out my card if I had to to buy them on DVD.

James Anthony , You brought up a show I like to see again. Peyton Place. I saw a season of it back in the mid 1980's>
I did read somewhere that continueing drama shows don't do all that well in synidication. Self contained do better for anyone can tune in anytime and follow along with out having to remember what happened last week.
J. T. so you see "All my children" . I just tuned in January to see the show. I love it. But I don't think I could watch 35 years of that show. In a way prices of these dvd is so high its a great way to say "no way "and not waste my life glued to the set.

Originally posted by jamesanthony
Would soap reruns sell well on DVD? They don't rerun well. I don't know if there would be enough of a demand for them. Once you've seen who killed so-and-so or who is cheating with whom it's like the suspense is gone.

Dallas and Dynasty were the two highest rated dramas of the 80s overall, yet you hardly hear of them now.

The same could be said for many sitcoms and dramas. I mean we all have our fav. shows we've seen over and over, yet wouldn't we want those out on DVD to watch over and over again? Daytime Dramas are the same way. Especially classic episodes that are hardly ever rerun anymore, and from what I've read when Soapnet airs a special classic episode(like they did with a special titled "They started on Soaps" they showed classic episodes of soaps like All My Children featuring Sarah Michelle Gellar, Knots Landing featuring Alec Baldwin, and General Hospital featuring Demi Moore), episodes like this do really well when shown :)

From what I've read Dallas, Knots Landing and Dynasty are all doing well on Soapnet :)

Now my response to the original thread question :lol:

I think 30-32 episodes per season would be enough to me 22-24 is not enough! I mean there are shows that can last one season that might have a small following and more episodes would give those fans something more, does that make sense :confused: :crazy: