I was ripped off and want to warn others. Do I need permission, or can I just post a bad trader alert?

Hugmonster,

By all means post your bad trading experiences. A person is a bad trader if you've already sent tapes/payment and you haven't received their end of the deal, or they didn't send all of what was agreed upon, or they didn't make right a misunderstanding or technical problem.

A person is not a bad trader simply because they didn't answer your email. :crazy: And a person is not a bad trader if they backed out of an agreement without any tapes/money being exchanged.

In order to be taken seriously, you must be specific in your complaint, without ranting and raving, and be willing to reveal some of yourself (anonymous posting is not a good idea). Of course, posting false accusations is not acceptable and eventually backfires.

Post his/her name, all known email addresses, the name of his/her town/state.

It's not always easy to know what is appropriate, but if your post crosses the line of appropriateness, your post(s) may be edited.

Jen

Thanks Jen. People definitely need to be warned about this person...

Jenny Boyce, beyondthemoon101@yahoo.com, of Wellsville, Ohio is a bad trader/thief. On February 28, 2004 she posted a reply on a Yahoo group claiming that she had all the episodes of the sitcom "Champs" as well as the 2000 TV Guide Awards. Her post can be viewed at this link: http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/tv-tape-trading/message/662. She and I emailed back and forth to set up the transaction and I sent her a money order for $24.50 to cover the cost of 3 tapes and shipping. I received 3 tapes from her on March 10, 2004, but they were all blank--nothing but static. I have emailed her numerous times to attempt to resolve the problem and have only received auto-responses. I posted a message on the Yahoo group as an attempt to contact her, and got no response. Finally, I sent her a snail mail letter, via certified mail, which was delivered to her address on April 19, 2004. In the letter, I gave her three options to resolve the problem: 1. Send me new tapes with the shows on them that work properly. I said I would return the blank tapes to her once I received the replacements. 2. Send her master tapes to another trader who would then copy them to DVD and return Jenny's originals
to her within a week. Or... 3. Refund my payment. I also gave her
a very reasonable deadline of May 3, 2004 as the day she needed to contact me by to let me know which option she was choosing, and that she could contact me via email or she could send me or the other trader the tapes. I told her that if I did not hear from her by then that I would feel I had done everything in my power to contact her and that I would post bad trader notices about her so that others would not have the same problem that I have had with her.

It is now past the deadline, and I have not heard from Jenny at all, nor has she sent the tapes to the other trader. I am posting this to warn everyone about her so that nobody else is ripped off by her. I did not receive the shows she claimed she had, and the 3 blank tapes I received are not worth the $24.50 that I sent her. Please be careful about doing business with her!

You should go to your local
Post Office and file a Mail Fraud Complaint.

The situation you are desdribing is Mail Fraud and it's a federal crime. One that is investigated and prosecuted by Postal and Law Enforcement authorities.

Don't let this "trader" get away with screwing you.

I just found out that I am not the only one she has ripped off. If you have a trading website, please list her name and info if you are willing to, so that others can be warned.

I, for one, appreciate being forewarned of bad traders. It's not always easy to stick your neck out and share bad trading experiences, especially when things gets nasty and the crook turns the tables and accuses the victim(s).

Thank you,

Jen

I was ripped off by this woman myself; she sent me a blank tape with some kind of strange, religious message inside:rolleyes:


Be careful of this one....

Great, now that's at least 3 of us. :smash: :angryfire :cuss: :livid:

I got the religious message also, as did the other person I heard from.

Originally posted by Undercover Angel
I was ripped off by this woman myself; she sent me a blank tape with some kind of strange, religious message inside:rolleyes:


Be careful of this one....



what show were you trying to get from her?

You can add me to the list. I paid her 17.50 for Second Noah episodes and received blank tapes also. At first she told me she mailed the tapes and they came back. When I finally did get them they were blank. I emailed her numerous times and either didn't recieve an email or got one saying that due to a family emergency she could be reached her at her cell but no number.

Jennie

Hey hugmonster, it's Kristen from the Yahoo Trading group. So I guess, so far, there are four of us who were gypped by Jenny Boyce.

I was ripped off by her as well. I was supposed to get the entire series of JACK AND JILL which, of course, I never got. Instead, I was sent 6 blank tapes, the same religious note, and a little "Have a great day :)" on the back of the note. I'm just really pissed that, besides my loss of $46.50, she's gotten other people to fall for her promises as well.:mad:


Hoping trading is going well for everyone else,
Kristen :)

she could be reached her at her cell but no number.
If anyone is interested in bugging her by telephone, do an internet white pages search for "Boyce" in Wellsville, OH and match up her address to the correct listing.

When did all of you send her the money and get ripped off? I'm curious as to whether she's been doing this for awhile or if she just started.

Originally posted by TVShow Analyzer
what show were you trying to get from her? A couple of very hard to find Barney Miller episodes that TV Land refuse to broadcast because they had bombs, and other bad, politically incorrect topics:rolleyes: ; but I got these episodes from another person, who is an excellent person to trade and deal with...

Originally posted by hugmonster
If anyone is interested in bugging her by telephone, do an internet white pages search for "Boyce" in Wellsville, OH and match up her address to the correct listing.

When did all of you send her the money and get ripped off? I'm curious as to whether she's been doing this for awhile or if she just started. I sent her a money order back in March; I eventually receive my money back because I reported the money order stolen; but I also recieve the episodes I was looking for from another source.

I eventually receive my money back because I reported the money order stolen;
Really... How did you go about doing that?

If you don't mind me asking, where in Southern Cali are you? I'm in the LA area.

Originally posted by hugmonster
Really... How did you go about doing that?

If you don't mind me asking, where in Southern Cali are you? I'm in the LA area. The phone on the back of the Money Order; I live in San Diego:wave:

Cool.

I have family in San Diego. I'm going down there tomorrow because my birthday is on Monday.

Originally posted by hugmonster
Cool.

I have family in San Diego. I'm going down there tomorrow because my birthday is on Monday. Happy Birthday...and Have a great day with your family in San Diego...May I ask what part?..:wave:

I love driving past Del Mar on the 5 and looking at the hot air balloons when there are people out there! Some of my family is in Carlsbad, and some is actually in the city of San Diego--near La Jolla and UCSD and also near Miramar.

Originally posted by hugmonster
I love driving past Del Mar on the 5 and looking at the hot air balloons when there are people out there! Some of my family is in Carlsbad, and some is actually in the city of San Diego--near La Jolla and UCSD and also near Miramar. Growing up in Del Mar, some of those hot air balloons almost crashed into my neighborhood acouple of times:lol:

Can you report a money order stolen and get your money back if the money order has already been cashed?

I did business with her to, but I also did business with her before and got the tapes just fine. I ordered Buffy tapes from her before and got them, but I ordered from her lately and have received Yahoo Auto Responses. Anyway, she was real friendly the first time I traded with her so I tracked her number down and asked Mrs. Boyce if her daughter was home. She told me of her aunt having a heart attack and being away. I felt bad so I didn't ask her about the money but told her to tell her to call me when she got home!

Isn't it true though that we could also get in trouble for trying to buy copyrights? The whole piracy thing? If we revealed we were trying to buy copyrighted material, we could get in trouble. It was just a thought, because during all those previews in theaters I've just been thinking. :)

Originally posted by JustSumGurl
Isn't it true though that we could also get in trouble for trying to buy copyrights? The whole piracy thing? If we revealed we were trying to buy copyrighted material, we could get in trouble. It was just a thought, because during all those previews in theaters I've just been thinking. :)
It is not illegal to buy copyrighted material; however, it is illegal to sell.

This ruse is typically used by bad traders who act in retaliation to being exposed.

Originally posted by tomboy872
Can you report a money order stolen and get your money back if the money order has already been cashed?
If you filled in the name and address on a USPS money order, you will get your money back.

US Mail Fraud Complaint Form (https://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/MailFraudComplaint.htm)

I don't think that's necessarily true though. I once had this really bad trader I had trouble with, and I bought tapes from this guy (his name is Kevin Johnson by the way, from Michigan) and I reported him, and kept reporting him, it was a lot of work, but this one person I came across told me that I shouldn't go any further with it because of the issue at hand, unless I was willing to possibly get into trouble myself. I don't know if I'd use the word "illegal" but I think buying it, especially when I have sold things myself (and any search on the internet could find out that I have done so, as have probably 90% of traders in some time in the past), I think that's what she meant. If you have traded or sold something of someone else's work and it could be found out about you, it's better not to let yourself be known. I'm not sure! I'm rambling! lol

I'm not going to fill out one yet, I feel bad for her family. I'm going to call her mother back in a couple of weeks, since I have traded with her in the past. :p

JustSumGurl,

You could very well be right about not wanting to draw attention to yourself. For example, how many crooks would report a robbery when their goods were originally stolen property.

Be safe and don't sell under any circumstances. You'll sleep easier. :D

Originally posted by JustSumGurl
I'm not going to fill out one yet, I feel bad for her family. I'm going to call her mother back in a couple of weeks, since I have traded with her in the past. :p
If she sent me blank tapes along with a supposedly religious comment, I'd count myself ripped off.

But as I said, I have done business with her in the past, and I called the young girl's mother...

Yes.

You are buying "bootleg" tapes, which the copyright holder does not get paid for.

By purchasing these tapes, you are breaking the law just as much as the seller is.

zabadu,

In the USA I have yet to hear of anyone getting arrested for buying, let alone selling. Have you heard of any such case where a buyer was charged?

With eBay, bootleg sellers are slapped on the hand and then eventually suspended if need be, whereas the bidders aren't charged in any way.

It's best to be on the safe side, IMHO, and ethically, I would have to agree with you.

Federal Laws
The three primary federal laws used to combat this crime are:


1) U.S. Copyright Law {Title 17 U.S.C. Section 101 et seq., Title 18 U.S.C., Section 2319 and Section 2319A}: The federal law protects sound recordings first "fixed" as of February 15, 1972. The law protects copyright owners from the unauthorized reproduction or distribution of sound recordings to the public. Section 2319 applies only to those recordings that are "fixed" with authorization on or after February I 5, 1972 (that is, when the performance is put into a tangible form such as a tape, record or CD).
Those recordings "fixed" prior to February 15, 1972, are protected by criminal law through a state's unauthorized duplication statute. On the civil side, recordings are protected by a state's competition laws.

Criminal sound recording copyright infringements are punishable by up to five years in prison and $250,000 in fines. Repeat offenders can be imprisoned up to 10 years. <b>Individuals may also be held civilly liable to the copyright owner for actual damages or lost profits or for statutory damages up to $100,000 per infringed copyright.</b>


2) Trafficking In Counterfeit Labels {Title 18 U.S. C., Section 2318}: This statute covers counterfeit labels intended to be affixed to a sound recording. A "counterfeit label" includes any component of the entire package of a prerecorded audio cassette, company disc or album cover. The definition also extends to a situation where counterfeiters have simulated "genuine" labels that have not previously existed. A person can be convicted under this law for trafficking in a finished product that contains a counterfeit label, as well as a component of that product, such as the insert card for an audio cassette. This statute imposes penalties of up to five years in prison and/or $250,000 in fines.

3) Trademark Counterfeiting {Title 18 U.S.C. Section 2320}: This statute deals with sound recordings that also contain the counterfeit trademark of the legitimate manufacturer or artists. The statute covers the "trafficking" as well as attempting to traffick goods containing the counterfeit marks. The penalties imposed by this statute for legal entities, such as corporations, range from $1 million to $5 million. Penalties for individuals range from five years in prison and/or $250,000 in fines to 15 years in prison and/or $1 million in fines.

4) Anti-Bootleg Statute {Section 2319A}: This federal anti-bootleg statute was created in December 1994. Like the pre-existing state statutes, the new federal statute criminalizes the unauthorized manufacture, distribution or trafficking in sound recordings and music videos of "live" musical performances. However, the federal statute also provides for the seizure of bootleg recordings or music videos manufactured outside the United States by U.S. Customs at the point of importation. In effect, bootleg recordings are now subject to seizure and forfeiture in the same manner as other property in violation of customs laws.

State Laws
Nearly all states have piracy related laws that make it a criminal offense to pirate, counterfeit or bootleg audio recordings. The three most commonly used state laws are:

1) True Name and Address Statute: This statute mandates the actual name and address of the manufacturer of a sound recording be displayed on the packaging. Because pirates, counterfeiters and bootleggers generally do not display their true name and address on illegal product, they are usually in violation of this statute. All sound recordings, regardless of the date of fixations are covered under this statute.

2) Unauthorized Duplication Statute: Pirate and counterfeit sound recordings "fixed" prior to February 15, 1972 are covered by this statute.

3) Anti-Bootleg Statute:Arenas, promoters and performers are protected against piracy under this statute, making it a crime to manufacture the sounds of a live performance of an artist and to distribute these reproductions.

Many of these state statutes carry a maximum penalty of up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine; other state statutes carry misdemeanor penalties.

from:
http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=1722730


"However, FBI agents are cracking down on the sellers, buyers and makers of the illegal movies here in the Valley.

If convicted, offenders could face some tough penalties. "it depends on the circumstances, but they're looking at five years, maybe $250,000 of fines," Cisneros said.

Cisneros said that consumers could also face charges. Bootleg copies of the movie are also being sold on internet auction sites, and there are even web sites where you can download an entire copy of the movie. "

From the Georgia State School of Law:


Another area of illegal online auctioning activity is the unauthorized sales of copyrighted works.

Copyright infringement, under 17 U.S.C. § 501 occurs when <b>anyone</b> violates the exclusive rights of a copyright owner as provided in section 106 through 121, which includes the right to reproduce copyrighted works. [25 ]

The problem is, Internet users are not especially concerned with copyright infringement, despite the fact that it can result in civil and criminal penalties.

[26] It has gotten to the point where online auction houses have facilitated unauthorized sales of movies not released to video, copyrighted movie trailers, and bootleg copies of movies still in the theatre.

[27] Online auction houses provide video pirates anonymity and a larger forum to conduct their business, depriving copyright owners of billions of dollars in profits.

[28] As more websites devote themselves to online auctions, the broader the customer base for these bootleggers.

zabadu,

Personally, I think that tape trading will eventually be illegal in the USA as it now is in Canada and other countries. As I understand it, tape trading is in the grey area.

Thanks for sharing the information. I certainly appreciate being made more aware of laws surrounding tape trading.

Trading or buying, you are still infringing on copyright.

zabadu,

Technically, wouldn't it be infringing copyrights copying a movie off of TV?

Yes.

Ebay also considers these illegal, although they do a poor job of policing their sellers.

Here's an article on tape trading. If you exchange ANY money for tapes (including "here's $3 for the cost of the tape), you are technically in violation of the law.

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,9532,00.html

Anyone on these boards offering to sell DVD/VHS copies is in DIRECT violation of the law.

Copyright Restrictions for Copying (Duplicating) Video Recordings:
Violation of copyright law is a serious concern when videotape duplication is performed. Any violation of copyright law can potentially put the AV Department, it's personnel, the College and you at risk for criminal prosecution or civil suits.

Therefore, the AV Department has strict restrictions regarding what matter may be duplicated. In order to copy any videotaped program which you are not the producer or author of, you must have received explicit written consent from the copyright holder for that program. This means we cannot make a copy of the video you may have rented, or a program you have taped from television without this explicit written permission. In most cases most video program producers will not provide this permission, and will instead encourage you purchase your own copy directly from them or from a store. In a few rare cases a producer may give such permission if that program or tape is otherwise unavailable.

Audio Visual Services will not make any copies of commercially produced or televised programming without express written permission from the copyright holder. There are no exceptions.

What Can Be Duplicated:
Personal tapes which were videotaped by you. This includes personal camcorder tapes or any programs for which you are effectively the copyright holder.
Classroom tapes recorded with HCAV equipment.
Programs recorded or produced by Haverford College.
Programs for which you have express written permission from the copyright holder to duplicate. A copy of this permission must be provided to HCAV when a duplication request is made.
Tapes that fall under the guidelines of Section 108 of the copyright code: Section 108 (17 U.S.C. Section 108) allows libraries to make a copy "solely for the purpose of replacement of a copy or phonorecord that is damaged, deteriorating, lost or stolen, if the library or archives has, after a reasonable effort, determined that an unused replacement cannot be obtained at a fair price." This right of reproduction does not permit the making of backups.


What Cannot Be Duplicated:
In general HCAV cannot legally duplicate any of the following materials:

Commercially produced videocassettes. These may include movies, television programs, or other programs.
Tapes of programs which have been recorded from other tapes, DVDs, or laserdiscs, or from cable TV, broadcast television, or any other broadcast source.
Non-commercial tapes for which the customer is not the producer or copyright holder. These may be demonstration tapes, corporate videos, music videos, etc.

Here's the link for the above information:

http://www.haverford.edu/av/copyright/viddup.html

Jen

Thanks, my computer locked up and I had to reboot. That is the correct addy.

Hey hugmonster,

My b-day is tuesday. Happy birthday to use both! Sorry to hear about this new scammer. There is another one in Ohio Richard Johnson who goes by Joe and Patricia S something and email gothamaster@aol.com I wonder if they are the same person but probably not since there was a religious note. I thought that was weird for a scammer to send that.