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Janice

02-09-2004, 11:33 AM

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20040209/D80JP5082.html

Deceased Artists Among Top Grammy Winners

LOS ANGELES (AP) - It's never too late to win a Grammy. Several deceased artists scored victories Sunday night, including two each by Warren Zevon and June Carter Cash, and one by Cash's husband, Johnny.

Carter Cash, who died in May, won female country vocal performance for "Keep On the Sunny Side," and the traditional folk album trophy for "Wildwood Flower."

"My mother's heart never, it may give up in body but it never did in spirit, you know, she kept on going," said John Carter Cash, who accepted on her behalf. "She's laughing and dancing somewhere."

Johnny Cash, who died in September, won short form music video for "Hurt," a song about drug addiction that he recorded in 2002. It was his 12th career Grammy.

"I really don't think it's because they passed away, I don't think it's a sympathy vote," country singer and Grammy winner Ricky Skaggs said. "I really think that it was because Johnny Cash is probably the most popular human being of our lifetime. There's never been a bigger star."

Zevon scored his first two career Grammy victories five months after dying of cancer. He completed "The Wind" in the final months of his life, and it won contemporary folk album. One of its songs, the raucous "Disorder in the House," won Zevon and Bruce Springsteen the Grammy for best rock performance by a duo or group with vocal.

A witty and irreverent lyricist whose songs often poked fun at death and failed relationships, Zevon was a critical but not a commercial success. Winning two trophies surely would have provoked his twisted sense of humor.

"His hard-boiled side would say, 'I don't care about this. These people never got me,'" said Jorge Calderon, the musician's producer and longtime friend.

"His other side, which was very Sammy Davis Jr., that part of him would be loving it. He'd be dressed in an all-cashmere suit. He'd be here digging it."

For his survivors, it was vindication.

"Oh man. Dad, what are you doing to me?" Zevon's son, Jordan, said as he accepted the award for "Disorder in the House."

"Well, all the people tonight when you get home - all the parents - and your kids say, 'Mom, Dad, who's Warren Zevon?' Do us a favor and add an incredible father to the description. The album has one soul but it has many hearts," he said.

Other deceased winners were: George Harrison, "Marwa Blues," pop instrumental performance; Celia Cruz, "Regalo Del Alma," salsa-merengue album; and Sam Cooke, "Legend," short form music video.

Harrison died of cancer in 2001; Cruz died of a brain tumor in July; and soul singer Cooke was shot to death in 1964.

Cooke also was a first-time winner; Cruz won her second; and Harrison, the former Beatle, earned his fourth solo Grammy.

Penny Lane

02-09-2004, 03:30 PM

I am so glad that Cash and Sam Cooke were recognized! Both were great talents in their areas of music! They deserve it!:nod:

You-oo-oo-oo send me...............
Honest you do
Honest you do
Honest you do

david&maddie4ever

02-09-2004, 04:29 PM

Honestly, I couldn't stand the fact that Martina and Shania lost out to somebody...who's dead. ohno: What purpose does that serve? I think you should be automatically disqualified if you're...um...dead. :D

Besides, Martina is a 50 times better singer than June Carter Cash...I think the only reason she won was because she recently died.

~Lauren

:sheep

HuntingtonM15

02-09-2004, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
I think the only reason she won was because she recently died.

:nod: Very true

dr frasier crane

02-09-2004, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
Honestly, I couldn't stand the fact that Martina and Shania lost out to somebody...who's dead. ohno: What purpose does that serve? I think you should be automatically disqualified if you're...um...dead. :D

Besides, Martina is a 50 times better singer than June Carter Cash...I think the only reason she won was because she recently died.

~Lauren

:sheep

Those are really mean things to say. Just because someone died recently doesn't mean don't deserve the Grammy. I definitely think Warren Zevon, George Harrison, Johnny Cash, June Carter Cash, and Sam Cooke deserved those awards.

AtlantaBravesFan29

02-09-2004, 06:27 PM

Dean Winchester

02-09-2004, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by dr frasier crane
Those are really mean things to say. Just because someone died recently doesn't mean don't deserve the Grammy. I definitely think Warren Zevon, George Harrison, Johnny Cash, June Carter Cash, and Sam Cooke deserved those awards.

I agree, imagine how upset she'd be if Martina McBride were to die, and then she won a Grammy, and fans of a living artist were to say "Martina McBride's dead, she sucks, why can't a living artist win it?". Would that not piss you off and get under your skin? Then imagine that's what you're doing to fans of June Carter Cash

HuntingtonM15

02-09-2004, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by dr frasier crane
Those are really mean things to say. Just because someone died recently doesn't mean don't deserve the Grammy.

It's just the fact that they always win just because they recently died.

Dean Winchester

02-09-2004, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by HuntingtonM15
It's just the fact that they always win just because they recently died.

then why didn't George Harrison win for the Brainwashed album in the Male Rock catagory?, Dave Matthews (who is among the living still) won the catagory instead.

HuntingtonM15

02-09-2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
then why didn't George Harrison win for the Brainwashed album in the Male Rock catagory?, Dave Matthews (who is among the living still) won the catagory instead.

Well, 95% of the time that's how it works out.

HuntingtonM15

02-09-2004, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
I agree, imagine how upset she'd be if Martina McBride were to die, and then she won a Grammy, and fans of a living artist were to say "Martina McBride's dead, she sucks, why can't a living artist win it?".

That's probably the only way she would win.

Penny Lane

02-09-2004, 07:19 PM

Penny Lane

02-09-2004, 07:26 PM

I know I will anger some of you but Martina,(although I really like her) Dave Matthews, etc. aren't worthy to lick the boots of George ,Sam, June and Johnny! So there!:p

HuntingtonM15

02-09-2004, 07:28 PM

Penny Lane

02-09-2004, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by HuntingtonM15
:lol: (only to the Martina part)

:D

By the way, IMO Patty Loveless is 1000% better than Martina or Shania!As I see from your avatar you are a Patty fan too!:wave:

Isn't she great?!:D As so often happens she kind have had gotten buried these past few years by the newbies! Too bad!:(

HuntingtonM15

02-09-2004, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by Penny Lane
By the way, IMO Patty Loveless is 1000% better than Martina or Shania!As I see from your avatar you are a Patty fan too!:wave:

Isn't she great?!:D As so often happens she kind have had gotten buried these past few years by the newbies! Too bad!:(

Yep, I love Patty. Yeah, she kinda has been buried. Though, her music always continues to be great! It's nice to see her being recognized with nominations again. I would have been very happy had she won the Grammy as well. I hope to get the chance to see her live someday. I have about 10 of her albums and I love them all!

david&maddie4ever

02-09-2004, 10:25 PM

Well, I didn't mean to offend any of you, and I certainly wasn't trying to be mean. All I was saying was that I didn't think that June deserved that Grammy...I think it truly was given out of pity, and that's not right. ohno:

~Lauren

:sheep

AKA

02-13-2004, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Penny Lane
I know I will anger some of you but Martina,(although I really like her) Dave Matthews, etc. aren't worthy to lick the boots of George ,Sam, June and Johnny! So there!:p

Or Warren!

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
I think [the Grammy] truly was given out of pity, and that's not right. ohno:

Doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. June won because the Academy felt that her album was better than the other nominees. Don't jump the "dead person pity" gun. That's just as bad as "playing the race card."

AKA

02-13-2004, 06:54 PM

By the way, here's what allmusic.com (a site I truly respect) had to say about both albums upon their releases:

June Carter Cash
Wildwood Flower
Release date: September 9, 2003
DualTone Records
4.5 stars

The tracks that comprise Wildwood Flower became June Carter Cash's final recording sessions, and were held from October 2002 to March 2003. Largely a family affair, Wildwood Flower is easily Carter Cash's least polished recording and perhaps her best. Husband Johnny sings in either duet or as backup on almost all the tracks; also singing are daughter Carlene, granddaughter Tiffany Anastasia Lowe, and cousins Joe and Janette Carter (children of Sara and A.P. Carter). Johnny and June's son John Carter Cash produced the album and former son-in-law Marty Stuart makes an appearance or two as well. Creating most of the instrumental merrymaking are Norman and Nancy Blake. And it is fitting that this collection of family and friends created June Carter Cash's recorded epitaph. These songs are intimate, frighteningly so. Her voice, as well as Johnny Cash's, are mere shadows of what once were golden throats, and the songs were by and large written by A.P. Carter, with one by June and a cover of a Leon Russell tune. The ghosts of the original Carter Family hover about uneasily in the mix here, offering shards of old harmonies and broken notes in the title track, "Anchored in Love," "Keep on the Sunny Side," "Road to Kaintuck," "Kneeling Drunkard's Plea," and especially "Will You Miss Me When I'm Gone," where the truth strikes a little too close to home. There are a few spoken word intros here (and some historically recorded ones) that are both poignant and humorous — check out June's observations of actor Lee Marvin on her intro to her song "Big Yellow Peaches." As the family gathers round one last time, the entire history of the country music tradition comes through and pours down around the listener, cracking and breaking and yet more musical than ever. This is the music of the folk as A.P. wrote it. And as such, it is both a credible historical document and, more importantly, the last will and testament of a legend who went back to her beginnings as a way of understanding the continuity of family and song in the present. Wildwood Flower is truly amazing, truly flawed, and heartbreakingly beautiful.

Martina McBride
Martina
Release date: September 30, 2003
RCA Records
4 Stars

One of the greatest voices in country music today and reigning CMA female vocalist of the year shines on this, her sixth album. McBride's previous catalog of music has always been intelligent and full of emotion, and these 12 tracks are decidedly no different. True to womanhood, Martina embodies the spirit of being female in every role. McBride sings about a bride-to-be in the guitar-strumming "Wearing White," as a daughter in the gospel-infused bluegrass "Reluctant Daughter," as a mom in the affecting ballad "In My Daughter's Eyes," as a confident lover in the smooth and gentle "When You Love Me," and as a friend in the soft, midtempo "She's a Butterfly." Other standouts include a delicious reinterpretation of "Over the Rainbow" as only McBride could sing it and the dramatic "How Far" in the style of her 1997 hit, "Whatever You Say." In a lush career that now spans ten years, Martina McBride always has something new to offer with immeasurable artistry.

Looks like they had good things to say about both albums (it's not an easy feat on the All Music Guide to get more than three stars in a review).

Nowhere in June's review does it say "the album is really, really enjoyable due to Carter Cash's recent passing."

Dean Winchester

02-14-2004, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by AKA
Nowhere in June's review does it say "the album is really, really enjoyable due to Carter Cash's recent passing."

I agree.

Well, I suppose if "mainstream country" (ala Tim, Martina, Kenny Chesney, Toby, Alan) is your thing, this type of country won't be their type. Critics, music sophisticates (think those who listen to NPR stations) and even some rock fans, embraced June's album, and these are people who'd never buy a Toby Keith record.

I remember a few resident country fans in here bashing Johnny Cash's Hurt, saying it sucked. Forgetting that Johnny wasn't trying to be Tim McGraw on that song. And also, those who bashed his Hurt failed to take into consideration that legions of ROCK FANS, people who would never be caught dead listening to Toby Keith, loved Johnny's version, while the same people look at Alan Jackson and Toby Keith and say "white trash". I think Toby Keith and Alan Jackson are huge examples of white trash (it's not that they are country, I think Kenny Chesney and Tim McGraw are a-ok, tho it's not my type of music) but yet I thought Johnny Cash's version of Hurt was so damn good that it actually made me interested in his back-catalog.

david&maddie4ever

02-14-2004, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by AKA
Doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. June won because the Academy felt that her album was better than the other nominees. Don't jump the "dead person pity" gun. That's just as bad as "playing the race card."

Giving my opinion is certainly not "jumping the dead person pity gun." It's just an opinion! :o I never said I didn't think she deserved it because she's dead...I said she didn't deserve it because she isn't as talented as the other ladies...IMO! :D

~Lauren

:sheep

Dean Winchester

02-14-2004, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
Giving my opinion is certainly not "jumping the dead person pity gun." It's just an opinion! :o I never said I didn't think she deserved it because she's dead...I said she didn't deserve it because she isn't as talented as the other ladies...IMO!

why isn't she as talented as the other women? That explains why music sophisticates who won't be caught dead being 10 feet from a Shania, Faith or Martina cd happen to think June was a class act, right?

david&maddie4ever

02-14-2004, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
why isn't she as talented as the other women? That explains why music sophisticates who won't be caught dead being 10 feet from a Shania, Faith or Martina cd happen to think June was a class act, right?

Why are you jumping all over me for my opinion? "Why isn't June as talented as the other women?" I don't know...because God didn't give her the talent he gave Martina? How can you ask me that? I don't think June is a talented as the other ladies. Simple as that. I shouldn't have to provide a reason.

HuntingtonM15

02-14-2004, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
That explains why music sophisticates who won't be caught dead being 10 feet from a Shania, Faith or Martina cd happen to think June was a class act, right?

Martina's name does not belong in that sentence. She is nothing like Shania or Faith. I don't see why "music sophisticates" who think June was a class act wouldn't like a Martina CD.

AKA

02-14-2004, 06:34 PM

It's cool. I can't change your mind about June, but if you ever get a chance, definitely check out some Carter Sisters stuff. It's really good.

fr00ti

02-14-2004, 08:26 PM

Yeah, no sh*t. Do you know how pissed I was that Martina lost to dead woman who couldn't even sing? ohno:

AKA

02-14-2004, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by .:mads:.
Do you know how pissed I was that Martina lost to dead woman who couldn't even sing? ohno:

How could you say that? June Carter Cash was a damn talented singer (great voice) and songwriter.

I see a lot of "June Carter" or "June Carter Cash" songwriting entries, but I'm looking through Martina McBride's album credits. I'm having a hard time finding a song she wrote.

Hmm. Who's the more talented of the two?

HuntingtonM15

02-14-2004, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by AKA
How could you say that? June Carter Cash was a damn talented singer (great voice) and songwriter.

I see a lot of "June Carter" or "June Carter Cash" songwriting entries, but I'm looking through Martina McBride's album credits. I'm having a hard time finding a song she wrote.

Hmm. Who's the more talented of the two?

Well, that is a matter of opinion. It doesn't make June more talented just because she wrote her own songs. Since she won the Grammy, I've listened to a bunch of her songs, and in my opinion, she doesn't have a very good voice. None of her songs that I've heard even compare to anything Martina's ever recorded.

david&maddie4ever

02-14-2004, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by HuntingtonM15
Well, that is a matter of opinion. It doesn't make June more talented just because she wrote her own songs. Since she won the Grammy, I've listened to a bunch of her songs, and in my opinion, she doesn't have a very good voice. None of her songs that I've heard even compare to anything Martina's ever recorded.

:nod: I agree. Writing songs doesn't have anything to do with how good of a singer you are, and it certainly shouldn't decide who should win a Grammy. Being able to write songs is being a poet...it's a completely different talent.

AKA

02-14-2004, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
:nod: I agree. Writing songs doesn't have anything to do with how good of a singer you are, and it certainly shouldn't decide who should win a Grammy. Being able to write songs is being a poet...it's a completely different talent.

Not really. Being able to perform your own songs only adds to your talent. Look at artists such as The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Nirvana, The Doors, Pink Floyd and Pearl Jam (the list, of course, goes on). I highly doubt they would have the legendary status they have now if they performed songs by other people, instead of writing their own songs.

I was once in a situation where I sang songs other people wrote and didn't play my own instruments. It was called high school jazz choir. Yeah, I was a good singer, but I didn't deserve a Grammy for it.

I'm not sure if the above paragraph conveyed my message the right way. I'm not trying to detract from anyone's talent as a vocalist.

Look, the bottom line is that Martina McBride is a great singer, to be sure. She's just not my cup of tea, nor is most contemporary country, really. Mrs. McBride should feel honored to be nominated in the company she was in. Unfortunately for people who were rooting for her victory, the voting academy at the Grammys collectively thought that June Carter Cash's album was better.

HuntingtonM15

02-14-2004, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by AKA
Not really. Being able to perform your own songs only adds to your talent.

Not when you can't sing to begin with.

AKA

02-14-2004, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by HuntingtonM15
Not when you can't sing to begin with.

True. Luckily, June Carter Cash had both talents.

HuntingtonM15

02-14-2004, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by AKA
True. Luckily, June Carter Cash had both talents.

Again, back to the opinion thing...

AKA

02-14-2004, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by HuntingtonM15
Again, back to the opinion thing...

Well, a lot of people disagree with your opinion. If that wasn't the case, June Carter Cash wouldn't have been in the music industry for nearly sixty years.

HuntingtonM15

02-14-2004, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by AKA
Well, a lot of people disagree with your opinion.

And that's fine. My whole point was that it's just a matter of opinion.

david&maddie4ever

02-14-2004, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by AKA
Not really. Being able to perform your own songs only adds to your talent. Look at artists such as The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Nirvana, The Doors, Pink Floyd and Pearl Jam (the list, of course, goes on). I highly doubt they would have the legendary status they have now if they performed songs by other people, instead of writing their own songs.

Yeah, but there were many legendary artists who didn't write their own songs. Take that guy...oh, what was his name?...Elivis, for example! :D Being a songwriter is not the deciding factor in how far you will go in the music industry.

~Lauren

:sheep

AKA

02-14-2004, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
Elvis, for example!

Elvis Presley became big because he was one of the first rock performers deemed "safe" by the adults. At the time, many people in this country were inwardly racist, and real rock pioneers such as Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, and Little Richard were being refused radio airplay in many parts of the U.S. They were later overshadowed by a handsome white guy with a lip curl and oodles of sex appeal performing their songs on The Ed Sullivan Show.

Now, do I like Elvis? Yes.

Do I think he was talented? At first, but he burned out after the mid '60s.

Does he deserve the accolades he gets? Yeah, but some of his more rabid fans need to tone it down a tad. :)

Was Elvis a rock trailblazer? Certainly not. He was just one of the first rockers to make it into the living rooms of America.

I think the first white guys to make a real impression in the rock industry were Carl Perkins (who, incidentally, wrote "Blue Suede Shoes") and later Jerry Lee Lewis and Buddy Holly.

fr00ti

02-14-2004, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by AKA

Hmm. Who's the more talented of the two?

Hmm. What dumb ass asks me that question? Martina's more talented. So, YOU LOSE! Thanks for playing.

Dean Winchester

02-14-2004, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by .:mads:.
Hmm. What dumb ass asks me that question? Martina's more talented. So, YOU LOSE! Thanks for playing.

that's just your opinion. I mean, I would rather listen to Madonna than Bob Dylan, but I do know that Bob IS more talented. Does Martina have respect outside of the country community? June did, and I'm not talking about pop fans. Critics everywhere loved her, as did a lot of fans of roots music, and while country's not popular with rock fans, most rock fans (I'm talking classic rock, not Godsmack fans) take the legends over today's stars.

fr00ti

02-15-2004, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
that's just your opinion.

That's kind of what my point was. Like I've said before, I don't give a crap what anyone else has to say about my opinion. :)

HuntingtonM15

02-15-2004, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
Does Martina have respect outside of the country community?

:nod:

Dean Winchester

02-15-2004, 02:41 PM

okay, I think this "war" has gotten inane

Martina McBride vs. June Carter Cash has to be the craziest war in here since Avril Lavigne vs. Bonnie Raitt (remember that?).

Remember when 10 Avril-heads were trashing Bonnie Raitt because Bonnie's "old" and "ugly". I think just about anybody over the age of 11 can figure out that Bonnie is the more talented artist of the two. Compare a 30 year career with countless grammys and accolades to a 19 year old with one hit album under her belt who proclaims herself a "rock singer" yet can't tell you who Sex Pistols or David Bowie are.

This war is about the same. Okay, June Carter Cash might not be your preferred type of music, but to deny that she was talented does not help your cause one bit. I have tried, but just cannot get into Bob Dylan's music, but because I don't like his music doesn't give me the right to say he's untalented, because I know that he IS.

Some people out there happen to prefer "roots" country to the manufactured Nashville sound. The reason the O Brother soundtrack was so big and won Grammys is because the album reached to an audience that doesn't particularly care for Alan Jackson. June appeals to that market as well, as does Johnny (American IV was probably more popular with ROCK FANS than it was COUNTRY FANS)

HuntingtonM15

02-15-2004, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
okay, I think this "war" has gotten inane

It's not a war. Like I have already said, it is about opinion. Just accept that other people are not always going to have the same opinion as you. You can go on and on about June, but it won't change my opinion.

david&maddie4ever

02-15-2004, 03:05 PM

You people are saying that I "can't deny that June is talented." Why can't I? *shrugs* I personally don't think she is. I can't stand her voice. Why should I have to proclaim her talent if I can't spot it?

Some people may think she's talented, but I don't, and I don't think I should be forced to say she is just because she has attained legendary status. I bet you guys don't like every music legend in the world.

~Lauren

:sheep

HuntingtonM15

02-15-2004, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
You people are saying that I "can't deny that June is talented." Why can't I? *shrugs* I personally don't think she is. I can't stand her voice. Why should I have to proclaim her talent if I can't spot it?

Some people may think she's talented, but I don't, and I don't think I should be forced to say she is just because she has attained legendary status. I bet you guys don't like every music legend in the world.

~Lauren

:sheep

Exactly! Very well put. It's like they are saying our opinion is wrong. If we don't like her, we shouldn't have to praise her!

david&maddie4ever

02-15-2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by HuntingtonM15
Exactly! Very well put. It's like they are saying our opinion is wrong. If we don't like her, we shouldn't have to praise her!

:clap: THANK YOU! :clap

Dean Winchester

02-15-2004, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
You people are saying that I "can't deny that June is talented." Why can't I? *shrugs* I personally don't think she is. I can't stand her voice. Why should I have to proclaim her talent if I can't spot it?

like I said before, I think Bob Dylan is a terrible singer, and I cannot get into his music. But I do admit the man has talent, tho it's just not something I'd want to listen to.

david&maddie4ever

02-15-2004, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
like I said before, I think Bob Dylan is a terrible singer, and I cannot get into his music. But I do admit the man has talent, tho it's just not something I'd want to listen to.

But there's a difference. You actually see Bob Dylan's talent...you just don't listen to his music. I don't see June's talent, so I shouldn't have to evangelize for her.

~Lauren

:sheep

Dean Winchester

02-15-2004, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
But there's a difference. You actually see Bob Dylan's talent...you just don't listen to his music. I don't see June's talent, so I shouldn't have to evangelize for her.

~Lauren

:sheep

oh ok, gotcha

david&maddie4ever

02-15-2004, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
oh ok, gotcha

Wow...really? :eek:

AKA

02-15-2004, 06:18 PM

You're entitled to your opinion, as I've stated in this very thread. I don't care that you don't like her voice; I just took issue with the fact that it was stated that June only won because she was recently deceased.

Sorry you think I'm such a "dumb ass," Mads.

Okay, consider this topic dropped. At least, by myself.