Thinking about what the world would be, if God didn't create it.

[Polniaczek033]

If God didn't exsist and the world wasn't created................ (Add your own thoughts)

[Czas na Zywiec]

Originally posted by Polniaczek033
If God didn't exsist and the world wasn't created................ (Add your own thoughts)

I wouldn't be here which would therefore prevent me from thinking.

[ks]

Originally posted by Ricky Ricardo


I wouldn't be here which would therefore prevent me from thinking.

True.

...There would be nothing. (That's hard to imagine)







ks

[Kristina]

I don't, God was not born when the world started I think lol. It was Adam and Eve and infact God was born after and was killed on the cross. I think we would still all be here and nothing different, people don't jump all over me from this post because I do believe in God that's just the way I think it all happened.

[Montana Ponine]

I'm thinking that we would not be here. That's the first thing that comes to my mind!

[AllIWantIsYourClutch]

Originally posted by Lucille Ball Forever
I don't, God was not born when the world started I think lol. It was Adam and Eve and infact God was born after and was killed on the cross.

Jesus died on the cross. Not God.

[Kay Scarpetta]

Originally posted by Rosa Blasi Rulz
Jesus died on the cross. Not God.

I could preach on that, but to save you all the time and boring-ness, I'll keep it to about 2 sentences....note, this is what I believe. You don't have to go along with it if you don't want to.

God was always here. He created everything. Planets, the universe, everything. He made Adam and Eve. Time went by, and He sent his son, Jesus, to be born through Mary and Joseph. Jesus was crucified in 33 A.D. under the Roman Empire, and after that, the Holy Spirit was sent to earth...

Ok, 6 sentences, not bad, lol

[Kay Scarpetta]

Anyways to answer the question, we would not be here

[Will and Grace Fanatic]

I think we would still be here, I'm just not really sure if he or she ever excisted. And I also think who created him or her.

[TibbyTibby2]

I DUNNO WHAT TO THINK

[Krystal Lake]

Hmm..that's easy. It would be the same as it is now. I don't believe a God created the world. Unless you can provide me with physical proof that a God does indeed exist, I will always believe that. There are too many "flaws" in the bible for me to rely on that as proof.

[Ewan's My Man]

OMG!!! IF HE DIDN'T EXIST THEN THERE WOULDN'T BE NE OF US!! AND THEN THAT WOULD MEAN...DUN DUN DUN:




























No EWAN!!!! *goes to mourn*

O...wait...Ewan's still here!!

[Hollow]

Sumtimes i wonder wut it would be like if there wasnt NEthing......like no earth & no universe or nuffin

[Max Whittaker]

Originally posted by Krystal Lake
Hmm..that's easy. It would be the same as it is now. I don't believe a God created the world. Unless you can provide me with physical proof that a God does indeed exist, I will always believe that. There are too many "flaws" in the bible for me to rely on that as proof.

Acually, there has never been any scientific evidence to disprove anything the Bible said. But hey...

The way I see it, there can only be one answer to that question: The universe would be a frightfully boring place!

[Kay Scarpetta]

OT, but welcome back Max! :wave:

[Beruche]

Erm I really dunno. I think that probably the universe would be a much better place if earth had never been created and the people on it. Especially the people on it. We are all so evil and terrible *Shrugs*

[Krystal Lake]

Originally posted by Max Whittaker


Acually, there has never been any scientific evidence to disprove anything the Bible said. But hey...

There's never been any scientific evidence to prove it, either.

Explain this to me, too. Because this is one of my main reasons for doubting the bible. Please, correct me if I'm wrong:

We all came from Adam and Eve, right? If that is correct, we would all be horribly inbred after this many years. Wouldn't we?

[Kristina]

Originally posted by Krystal Lake

There's never been any scientific evidence to prove it, either.

Explain this to me, too. Because this is one of my main reasons for doubting the bible. Please, correct me if I'm wrong:

We all came from Adam and Eve, right? If that is correct, we would all be horribly inbred after this many years. Wouldn't we?

Exactly. There is no proof, until God comes into my house and talks to me I won't fully believe in him but I believe there is a God in the heavens. I thought God was Jesus, lol, They don't teach this in school because it is againt the law (in California) and I've never been to church in my life.

[SoftballPlayer198]

It wouldn`t be a world without God.

[Kay Scarpetta]

Originally posted by Lucille Ball Forever
I thought God was Jesus, lol

Well, Catholics actually believe they are the same person, which I find to be absolutely absurd. They think that the Father (God), the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit are the same person, divided into the Holy Trinity. Hard to explain, but what I, among other denominations of Christians believe, they are NOT the same person

[Polniaczek033]

Originally posted by Krystal Lake

There's never been any scientific evidence to prove it, either.


Scientific? God isn't science, it is religion. BTW, I know we wouldn't be here. I mean what do you think would be here instead?

[ks]

Originally posted by Krystal Lake

There's never been any scientific evidence to prove it, either.

Explain this to me, too. Because this is one of my main reasons for doubting the bible. Please, correct me if I'm wrong:

We all came from Adam and Eve, right? If that is correct, we would all be horribly inbred after this many years. Wouldn't we?


You don't need scientific evidence. You just need faith...


I'm not actually sure how to answer that question. I don't think there is any one proper way to answer. Anyway...

I'm not exactly sure where you're going with the 'inbred' thing, because, well...I don't know why. I'm just going to kind of tell you where I'm coming from and then maybe someone on here can clarify your question because I'm out of it about now-sorry.

I believe that we are all related. After the Flood everyone was wiped out except Noah and his sons, so we are all related back to him. Noah had no more children after the ark, but his three sons and their wives did and I believe that is where we all came from.
Also, all the animals on the earth, I believe, came from the two animals from each kind Noah was instructed to take upon the ark.


That's my thoughts anyway...


Also, as for what Karli was saying, I believe in the Trinity-God being three and one. I know scientists have fried their brains trying to figure such a thing out and have come up empty, but once again that is where faith comes in I believe. I believe there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.


As for what Max said about the Bible yet to have been proven incorrect, I agree with that as well. There is nothing to contradict the Bible.


Last point...
As for those who question Jesus' existence that can be proven because many people, non-Christians, have written about his presense on earth. There's no doubt we walked the face of the earth...



I'm gonna head out now...layta;)






ks

[Czas na Zywiec]

Originally posted by ks



You don't need scientific evidence. You just need faith...

That's what I hold onto. ;)

[ks]

Originally posted by Ricky Ricardo


That's what I hold onto. ;)

;) Ditto. I have to. What else is there?






ks

[Cokies]

I'd be exactly the same. You know why?

Buddists, Muslims, etc, etc... they all live on Earth. The same Earth I live on, that you live on. We all have our different faiths, which affect our views to which the world was created.

Personally, I believe in the "Big Bang" theory. Billions of years of evolution brought us to where we are today, as humans.
I would like to think there is some "higher being", who has the answers to all of the universe. And if that's a Christian God, so be it.
But with all the Bible mumbo jumbo(which I have respect for, since I am being brought up in a Christian household), I find it all hard to believe. A lack of faith, sadly.

[Czas na Zywiec]

Originally posted by ks


;) Ditto. I have to. What else is there?

Whatever it is, I don't want to know. ;)

[vienna waits]

Originally posted by Lucille Ball Forever
They don't teach this in school because it is againt the law

I'm pretty sure it's against the law to teach religion anywhere in the US in a public school.

[Krystal Lake]

Originally posted by Polniaczek033



Scientific? God isn't science, it is religion. BTW, I know we wouldn't be here. I mean what do you think would be here instead?

I am aware it is religion. :) How can you really say that we wouldn't be here? Yes, I know..how can I really say we would be here without a God?
It is easy for me. Trust me. I have spent my whole life rationalizing whether or not there is a God, and I have come to the conclusion of No. I look for proof in what I believe in, and have found no conclusive proof of a God. Everything in the universe has another explanation for me.
A: Why are we here? We evolved. Be it from the ape or another creature (although the ape seems to be what we are most closely related to genetically), that is what I believe happened. I don't believe a God magically snapped his fingers and put us here. That does not make sense to me. There is no proof that happened, where there is more evidence we evolved from the ape (our chromosomes are very similar). Damn dirty apes. (sorry, had to get that reference in ;) ). Once again, this seems the most logical to me. Technically, we are a genetic mutation that happened either as a freak occurance, or as a carefully orchestrated evolution process that happened in order to make apes (or another species) more adaptable to Earth. The opposable thumb sure is nice, isn't it?
B: Why is the Earth here? The "Big Bang Theory" rationally makes more sense to me than a God just going "Poof! Here's Earth!" What is the one thing most planets have in common? The presence of Hydrogen. Same with the Sun. A gaseous mass comprised mainly of Hydrogen expanded, then shrunk, then expanded, then shrunk, until the chemicals could not do so anymore. They exploded, shooting out these bits of Hydrogen all through the universe, which over time evolved into the planets we now know.
How does the Bible explain Earth? "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. " That's a really vague description if you ask me (and it's gramatically incorrect.) I could tell you the Easter Bunny created water but that doesn't necessarily make it so, now does it? Who says that the people who wrote the Bible are the authorities on all that exists?

I don't believe in a God, just as I don't believe in aliens, ghosts, and the boogie man. I do believe in Keyser Soze, though. :eek: (Score me ten points for using two movie references in my thesis on religion. High five!)

To answer your question "What do I think would be here instead?" I thought I made this clear in my original post: Exactly the same stuff that is here today.

You are entitled to your beliefs, just as I am entitled to mine. Sorry, but there's nothing that is going to change my mind on why things are like they are. Just as I don't intend to change your beliefs. I base my philosophy of life and the Earth on scientific theory, you base your's on faith and God-based theory. You say "Toe-may-toe", I say "Toe-Mah-Toe". :)

By the way, did you guys know that you can make a nifty crop circle if you have five people, a good design, and a board attatched to long strings? You put the board around your body and drag it behind you according to the design of the crop circle's pattern. The five people is necessary if you want to get it done within an hour, so you don't get caught.
There's always a logical explanation for everything. ;)

[Cokies]

Originally posted by Krystal Lake



I don't believe in a God, just as I don't believe in aliens, ghosts, and the boogie man. I do believe in Keyser Soze, though. :eek: (Score me ten points for using two movie references in my thesis on religion. High five!)






And there is only one thing I'm afraid of, and that's Keyser Soze. :lol:

*high five back to you*

[Max Whittaker]

It actually takes more faith to believe in the evolutuonary theory because the so called "missing link" has never been found. There are huge gaps in the theory and fossil record.

Of course I don't want to sound like I'm trying to change your mind. That would be to pushy. I just want you to know the facts that I know.


Faith is a major part of life, whether we recognize it or not.

[Kitt]

Originally posted by Max Whittaker
It actually takes more faith to believe in the evolutuonary theory because the so called "missing link" has never been found. There are huge gaps in the theory and fossil record.

Of course I don't want to sound like I'm trying to change your mind. That would be to pushy. I just want you to know the facts that I know. It doesn't take more faith to believe in a work in progress, which has much credible evidence and much of it indisputalble, than it takes to believe or "have faith" in a supposedly omnipotent being who oversees everything and everyone from since time immemorial. He/she (but let's face it, most guys and gals insist that he is a he) says that the good guys can go to heaven, what ever that is, and the bad guys have to go to hell, whatever that is. It takes a buttload of faith to believe in a fable of that proportion. And the whole world disagrees on who this God is. But they all say 'he's on our side'. The Yankees said that, the confederates said that. "God is on our side!" Kill in the name of God!... War after war after war.

[Cokies]

Originally posted by kittflynn
And the whole world disagrees on who this God is. But they all say 'he's on our side'. The Yankees said that, the confederates said that. "God is on our side!" Kill in the name of God!... War after war after war.

I'll quote Kevin Smith's genius and hilarious "Dogma" twice(hey, if you're a Christian doubting your faith, this movie might actually make you believe again).

[About Christ.]
Rufus, the 13th Apostle: What He really hates is the s--t that gets carried out in his name. Wars. Bigotry. Televangelism

---------

Bethany : You're saying that having beliefs is a bad thing?
Rufus : I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier.

I couldn't agree more.

[Kay Scarpetta]

Originally posted by tootieismyfav
I'm pretty sure it's against the law to teach religion anywhere in the US in a public school.

Yes........it is

[ks]

Originally posted by kittflynn
It doesn't take more faith to believe in a work in progress, which has much credible evidence and much of it indisputalble, than it takes to believe or "have faith" in a supposedly omnipotent being who oversees everything and everyone from since time immemorial. He/she (but let's face it, most guys and gals insist that he is a he) says that the good guys can go to heaven, what ever that is, and the bad guys have to go to hell, whatever that is. It takes a buttload of faith to believe in a fable of that proportion. And the whole world disagrees on who this God is. But they all say 'he's on our side'. The Yankees said that, the confederates said that. "God is on our side!" Kill in the name of God!... War after war after war.


Yes, but there is no sufficient, solid evidence that such a thing as evolution ever occured. There are way too many things that contradict evolution.
The universe being created by God is documented in the Bible and there is nothing yet to prove the Bible is false.
As for the 'good people, bad people' standards God gives us a very laid out plan He expects us to live by...you don't just make it up as you go along.
The thing I don't get is how everyone doubts God's existence and Jesus Christ's existence yet there are accounts, Christian and non-Christian of Jesus walking the earth and dying to rise again. When even non-Christians back in that time witnessed such a thing and documented it, I find it hard to argue with. There's actually no doubt in my mind.

Those are just my opinions though and I'm not looking to change anyone's beliefs. Sorry if I offended anyone.




...off to the hole!






ks

[Czas na Zywiec]

Yea, This is a very opinionated post, so I don't want to offend anyone. But why would they make up someone like God and Jesus? Is this their idea of a cruel joke to last forever? I do believe that God created the earth and that Jesus walked the earth. Some people may say he can't be God because he wasn't perfect. Well Jesus was made in man's image. He was God and he was man. I know for some it's hard to believe, but you just need faith. Also, about the evolution thing. How can you be sure about it when it is just a theory? They call it the Theory of Evolution, not the Law of Evolution. Now for something like gravity, it is a law because it was proved that it exists. Evolution was not proved, so that's why I don't believe in it. They yet have a far way to go to find that out. So that's why I keep the faith.

Please do not be mad at me, as I said, these are my beliefs and was not trying to change anyones mind.

[Kitt]

To say evolution is an unproven theory and so how can one believe in it, is not a convincing argument for "having faith" in God. God is not a proven entity and neither is the tale of Jesus rising from the dead or any number of other tales passed on through the bible. Evidence that Jesus lived is another matter. Just because he lived doesn't prove that he was the son of God. You've been bouncing back and forth between 'God is proven' and 'Just have faith'. If God were proven we wouldn't need reach for or lean on faith.

Why would God have been made up? One reason would be that we humans are vain and are unable to accept the possibility that we're not as important as we'd like to think. Another reason would be (this one goes more to the invention of faith based religions) it's a Convenient way to control the masses if they're of the belief that a higher power is looking over them and will punish them for all manner of things. The populace is lead to believe that no matter how rotten conditions are, another world awaits so just grin and bare it. Another assumption is that those without faith are disgruntled or disallusioned and would be better off if they could only get the spirit and have faith. Speaking for myself, it isn't so.

[ks]

Originally posted by kittflynn
You've been bouncing back and forth between 'God is proven' and 'Just have faith'. If God were proven we wouldn't need reach for or lean on faith.

Why would God have been made up?


Yes, it is proven to me that God exists, I do not doubt that. I also have faith in Him.



If God is made up then how does one explain the Bible and everything in it happening as promise?




ks

[Czas na Zywiec]

All I am saying is that you can believe in what you want to. I believe in God and you don't have to. It's your own decision. And I like the idea of going to a better place when we die. If someone told me you die and nothing else happens, what do I have to look forward to? :eek:

[Kitt]

Originally posted by ks



Yes, it is proven to me that God exists, I do not doubt that. I also have faith in Him.
If God is made up then how does one explain the Bible and everything in it happening as promise?
ks You're mixing up fact with opinion again. What you said about the bible and God is not fact it's your belief.

[Max Whittaker]

No one HAS to believe if it proves to be too hard. As for me, I choose to believe in an almighty God and a peaceful afterlife and I'm open to reincarnation.


By the way, I don't any of you for having different beliefs. It actually makes for more interesting conversation. Why should I hate someone who is different?


Sometimes, faith is all we have between life and oblivion.

[Cokies]

Originally posted by Ricky Ricardo
And I like the idea of going to a better place when we die. If someone told me you die and nothing else happens, what do I have to look forward to? :eek:

Me too, me too. That's why it's sad I'm inable to have faith in a God that my family and most friends have accepted as their savior and the key to a "peaceful afterlife".
You could say I'm afraid of death, but at the same time, how will I know what I'm missing? I'll be dead, right?

[julian bozo]

I think more Women on this post don't believe in God then the Men. Just stating what is obvious. Not trying to start a battle of the sexes. Also I do believe in God.

[ks]

Originally posted by julian bozo
I think more Women on this post don't believe in God then the Men. Just stating what is obvious. Not trying to start a battle of the sexes. Also I do believe in God.


Yes, but then again more women then men (or girls than boys)have responded to this post so the odds are gonna be with the women (girls) whichever way since there are more of us.




ks

[Kitt]

Originally posted by Ricky Ricardo

Please do not be mad at me, as I said, these are my beliefs and was not trying to change anyones mind. No reason I can think of why anyone would be mad at you.

Originally posted by Max Whittaker
No one HAS to believe if it proves to be too hard. I don't get what that means. It isn't that it's "too hard" I just don't need to believe. Even if it turned out to be that there is something else, that doesn't mean it is anything at all like the religions say that it is. And if there is an afterlife, some unknown continuation, I don't believe that christianity is necessarily the route to it or has anything to do with it.

Not that it matters how many guys and gals go which way, but, Julian Bozo, you do know I'm a guy?

[Bootsy Whoosh]

Originally posted by ks
There is nothing to contradict the Bible.


Well now sure there is, and ya don't even have to go far. The Bible contradicts itself multiple times. The Bible even contradicts itself on creation. Get out your Genesis boys and girls! Genesis Chapter 1: First story of creation (in my Bible it even says that in bold print before the chapter!) Genesis Chapter 2: Second story of creation (again, bold print). Now I am not going to quote all of Genesis here because y'all can read it for yourselves, but trust me, the two stories contained in Chapters 1 and 2 are very different. Bible scholars attribute this to the fact that the accounts were written by different men, whom they call "J" and "P".

Now I am not necessarily saying that this disproves the Bible, just saying that if you believe wholeheartedly in the Bible and everything in it, then you are believing in contradictions, therefore, you cannot shoot down evolution simply because of so-called contradictions or so-called missing links.

Originally posted by Ricky Ricardo
How can you be sure about it when it is just a theory? They call it the Theory of Evolution, not the Law of Evolution. Now for something like gravity, it is a law because it was proved that it exists. Evolution was not proved, so that's why I don't believe in it. They yet have a far way to go to find that out. So that's why I keep the faith.


Do you believe that you are made up of atoms and molecules? The existence of atoms and molecules is pretty much not questioned and is the basis of all our medical science and everything we know about the world, but it is still "merely", as you might say, atomic theory.

Just because someone, even multiple people "wrote it down" does not make it proof. Many multiples of people have given accounts of being abducted by aliens, and by golly they've even written these accounts down! Are we to blindly accept that they have indeed been abducted without any further proof other than their word?

You may try to shoot back that many scientists have written down about evolution so why believe in that, but remember, there are fossil records and genetic records, so that even if you don't believe, evolution is STILL a better theory than the existence of God because at least there is SOME evidence to back it up. Simply stating there is no evidence to the contrary for the Bible is weak. As keepers of the faith, it is your job to convince us why we should believe (Jesus even tells us so), not for us to convince you why you shouldn't believe (because that would never happen anyway!)

[Czas na Zywiec]

Originally posted by Bootsy Whoosh
You may try to shoot back that many scientists have written down about evolution so why believe in that, but remember, there are fossil records and genetic records, so that even if you don't believe, evolution is STILL a better theory than the existence of God because at least there is SOME evidence to back it up. Simply stating there is no evidence to the contrary for the Bible is weak. As keepers of the faith, it is your job to convince us why we should believe (Jesus even tells us so), not for us to convince you why you shouldn't believe (because that would never happen anyway!)

Well I still don't believe in the theory of evolution. Just because there is more evidence in the theory doesn't make it better. We all believe in different ideas and that's why we are different people. I just like the theory that God created better than the one where we evolved from gorrillas. Now I'm not pciking on you and if it sounds like it, I'm sorry, but I'm just saying that to me, God is proven. :)

[Max Whittaker]

Bootsy, you are apsolutely correct, the Bilble constantly contradicts itself. I think it's because it was written by several different people who each had different encounters and opinions of what they had saw. It wasn't written by God after all, it was written by people. People make mistakes. But it must have more basis in fact than in fiction.

Here's the reason I believe: Miracles. If you've ever watched "It's a Miracle" you'd have to be quite the nonbeliever to say that most of the stories are fabricated.
Furthermore Life is a miricale! I can not believe I live because of some accident! There has to be some higher power that created humanity! It's a beautiful thing. Evolution couldn't have done a better job.


I have no animosity toward atheist. Actually, I personally think the word atheist is a derogatory word for any person.

I believe. You can, but I won't make you. I've given you my opinion. Take it or leave it, I've done what I can.
Opinions are what make this country and others great!
Well, I better stop talking before I offend anyone further.

[Kitt]

Max, I don't understand why you think that I or we would be offended that you believe as you do. There is a lot of dispicable chicanery done by religious zealouts, but I don't lump all religious people into that category. I'm bothered by con artists and opportunists but my personal beliefs are not on trial just because they're different from theirs or yours. What you or they believe has no belittling effect on how I believe so I don't know why it is that you are concerned about offending me or someone else.

[Cokies]

Originally posted by Max Whittaker


Actually, I personally think the word atheist is a derogatory word for any person.


Derogatory? What do you mean by that? Do you mean that an atheist should be ashamed of what they are? Because they don't have faith?
Maybe I took it the wrong way...I'd be much more comfortable refering to myself as agnostic.

I do have faith, but in myself, first and foremost.

[JoPol_wannabe]

Here is an article my minister sent us in our bulliten once about evelution: (Bear with me it's pretty long)

Can I believe in Evolution and the Bible?
The simple answer to this question is NO! There is no reconciliation with evolution and the Bible. The Bible teaches us that, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1). Many evolutionists would like us to believe that; the creation event happened by chance; it occurred over billions of years; and that there is no God.

Although we believe that science and religion can coexist, it's important to understand that science does not confirm God, God confirms science. Any scientific theory that denies the existence of God can not be reconciled with the Bible. The Bible teaches us in Genesis chapter one:

[1] In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. [2] Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. [3] And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. [4] God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. [5] God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day

[6] And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." [7] So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. [8] God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning--the second day.

[9] And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. [10] God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. [12] The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. [13] And there was evening, and there was morning--the third day.

And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, [15] and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. [16] God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. [17] God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, [18] to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. [19] And there was evening, and there was morning--the fourth day.

[20] And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." [21] So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. [22] God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." [23] And there was evening, and there was morning--the fifth day.

[24] And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. [25] God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. [26] Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. [28[ God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." [29] Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. [30] And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground--everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food." And it was so. [31] God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day.

GE 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. [2] By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. [3] And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. [4] This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Based on the Bible, it took 7 days to complete the entire creation event, not millions/ billions of years. Based on the Bible, He created all living creature on day 5 and 6, it does not state that He created a single cell ameba and it evolved into man over millions of years. This is not the same as evolution. The fact that some are now willing to say that perhaps there's some divine force out there that got the whole thing rolling in no way reconciles these two events. The sad fact is it's not the evolutionists making that statement as much as the theologians saying "if you agree God was involved, I'll agree he used evolution to make it happen."

There are many others to list, one major issue between the two views and the one that the page you refer to focuses on is there can be no death before man. The only logical interpretation of Genesis 2:15 – 17, is that prior to sin there was no death. The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

This interpretation is confirmed by the existence and subsequent removal of the tree of life as described in Genesis 3:21,22. The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." The point is evolutionists need millions of years of death for one species to change into another. They also believe that it all started with simple single cell life forms and ultimately evolved into man. The Bible teaches that death entered the world as a result of man's sin. If we give into the world view and reinterpret the Bible to say that the days were not literal 24 hour days, but each represent millions of years, and that man slowly evolved through God's divine providence, then we are also admitting that death existed before sin.

There can be no death before man. We are taught that only bloodshed can cover sin this is why God made the garments of skin and why Jesus Christ came and paid the ultimate price at Calvary. If we allow the evolutionists to make us accept their theory instead of God’s word on such a simple issue as when the dinosaurs existed, then we’re giving them the opportunity to discredit the Bible, and God’s ultimate plan of salvation. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the first fruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. (1 Corinthians 15:20-23).

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all... Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men (Romans 5:12, 18). If you want to know more about this justification check out our salvation page.

The best book I've read on the subject is The Genesis Solution by Ken Ham and Paul Taylor. It's clear, concise and completely destroys the evolution myth. One might read this book and be compelled to dedicate several pages of their website to the topic! Also check out Refuting Evolution by Jonathan Sarfati. In this book you'll find a well-documented scientific approach, that destroys the theory of evolution.

Does the Bible Support Evolution?
Some people would like to combine evolution and creation. They argue that God used evolution to create the universe and point to various scriptures to make this case. There are obviously two schools of thought as it relates to the creation event. Within the Christian community there's a difference of opinion on this topic. Hopefully we share equal beliefs as it relates to the saving power of Jesus Christ and can have a healthy dialogue about this topic.
The potion of scripture most often used to defend a sustained creation event is wrapped around some text that makes it a complete thought. 2 Peter 3:8 states in it's entirety:

2PE 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. This verse does not state that when God says a day he means a thousand years (which by the way would make the creation event 7,000 years long not 7,000,000,000 years long). When read in it's entirety we interpret the meaning to be time is irrelevant to God. Remember he is eternal, He existed before time, He created time, etc. Furthermore if we read this verse in the context of the message we find:

2PE 3:3 First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. [4] They will say, "Where is this `coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." [5] But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. [6] By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. [7] By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. [8] But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. [9] The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Now we understand that the lesson is that if God said He's coming again, He'll be back! Not on man's time, but on His time. This scripture has nothing to do with creation or evolution, yet when taken out of context it becomes the foundation of the gap theory. Now let me ask you something. If the scriptures in Genesis chapter 1 do refer to 1,000 years each (or some other long period of time how do you explain these issues?

GE 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. [4] God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. [5] God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.These verses indicate that on the 1st day God created light and dark called the light day and the dark night and when that happened one time he called it the first day. Are you suggesting that it was light for 1000 years then dark for a thousand years?

GE 1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." [7] So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. [8] God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning--the second day.

Again we have an evening and a morning and a second day. Should I read this there was 1000 evening and 1000 mornings? Or was it dark for 1000 years?

GE 1:9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. [10] God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good. [11] Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. [12] The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. [13] And there was evening, and there was morning--the third day.

On this day water is gathered and land appears, then plants and trees were created all according to their kinds all on one day. It doesn't say one plant grew and became another which became another and another and over the course of time all the various plants were created. It states that they were created according to their kinds. An interesting scientific point is that plants need varying degrees of light and dark for photosynthesis to occur. If it was dark for 1000 years wouldn't all the plants die?

You see if we choose to allow the world view into the creation story, the story no longer makes sense at all. Then we can question the rest of the Bible. The most important issue is related to death and sin as discussed earlier in this article. The Bible teaches that death is the result of sin, that the first sin of the earth was when Adam & Eve ate the fruit, as a result all of the earth was cursed and will surely die. For evolution to have developed man from cell millions of generations of death needed to exist. If death existed before sin then God is a liar. Is that the message you want to share?

This is just what I believe about Evolution.

[Kitt]

That's a good example of the chicanery I was talking about. Referring to evolutionists as scoffers who follow their own evil desires is the very worst, most grossest type of demogogery. I'm at a loss for words that would be appropritate to write on this forum to explain how disgusting that putrid piece of propaganda comes across to me. Teaching the bible should not include demonizing non-believers. There is nothing evil about studying the theories of evolution and there is certainly no book that "completely disproves evolution" or however it was the article put it.

[Czas na Zywiec]

I got this in an email and found it interesting. Now these are not my opinions, just an email I got. So please don't start questioning me for it, because I just got it. That's all. :)
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>Hummm...
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>One day Satan and Jesus were having a conversation. Satan had just come from the Garden of Eden, and he was gloating and boasting. Yes, sir, I just caught the world full of people down there. Set me a trap, used bait I knew they couldn't resist. Got 'em all!"
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>"What are you going to do with them?" Jesus asked.
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>Satan replied, "Oh, I'm gonna have fun! I'm gonna teach them how to marry and divorce each other, how to hate and abuse each other, how to drink and smoke and curse. I'm gonna teach them how to invent guns and bombs and kill each other. I'm really gonna have fun!"
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>"And what will you do when you get done with them?" Jesus asked.
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>"Oh, I'll kill 'em," Satan glared proudly.
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>"How much do you want for them?" Jesus asked.
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>"Oh, you don't want those people. They ain't no good. Why, you'll take them and they'll just hate you. They'll spit on you, curse you and kill you!! You don't want those people!!"
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>"How much?" He asked again.
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>Satan looked at Jesus and sneered, "All your tears, and all your blood."
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>Jesus said, "DONE!" Then He paid the price.
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>Isn't it funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.
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>Isn't it funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.
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>Isn't it funny how everyone wants to go to heaven provided they do not have to believe, think, say, or do anything the Bible says. Or is it scary?
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>Isn't it funny how someone can say "I believe in God" but still follow Satan (who, by the way, also "believes" in God).
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>Isn't it funny how you can send a thousand jokes through
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>e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.
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>Isn't it funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely through cyberspace, but the public discussion of Jesus is suppressed in the school and workplace.
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>Isn't it funny how someone can be so fired up for Christ on Sunday, but be an invisible Christian the rest of the week.
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>Are you laughing?
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>Isn't it funny how when you go to forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address
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>list because you're not sure what they believe, or
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>what they will think of you for sending it to them.
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>Isn't it funny how I can be more worried about what other people think of me than what God thinks of me.
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>Will YOU pass this on? .... I did
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[Kitt]

What is your point? If you don't stand by it then why did you post it? Are you not bothered by any of what it says? Do agree with some or all of what it says? You asked not to be questioned, and you don't have to answer any questions, of course, but what is the purpose of passing it on if you have no desire to discuss it?

One issue that was touched upon in the email: The separation of church and state was set up by the founders in the constitution for the purpose of protecting religious freedoms, yet many christians are forever trying to break that down or deny it all together.

[Czas na Zywiec]

Originally posted by kittflynn
What is your point? If you don't stand by it then why did you post it? Are you not bothered by any of what it says? Do agree with some or all of what it says? You asked not to be questioned, and you don't have to answer any questions, of course, but what is the purpose of passing it on if you have no desire to discuss it?

One issue that was touched upon in the email: The separation of church was set up by the founders in the constitution for the purpose of protecting religious freedoms, yet many christians are forever trying to break that down or deny it all together.

I Just put it there for anyone who wanted to read it. I didin't say I stood bye it, I just said I found it interesting, that's all. It's okay. :)

[Max Whittaker]

Originally posted by Cokies


Derogatory? What do you mean by that? Do you mean that an atheist should be ashamed of what they are? Because they don't have faith?
Maybe I took it the wrong way... Oh no! No one should be ashamed of what or who they are! I simply ment that is sounds bad.

[Cokies]

Originally posted by Max Whittaker
Oh no! No one should be ashamed of what or who they are! I simply ment that is sounds bad.

Oh, okay. We're cool. :)

[Bootsy Whoosh]

Originally posted by Ricky Ricardo
Well I still don't believe in the theory of evolution. Just because there is more evidence in the theory doesn't make it better.

Well I guess that's just something we will have to disagree on. I hope you never have an interest in becoming a scientist, because if you tried to get something published in a journal without any evidence to back you up you'd be laughed out of the scientific community. I consider myself a scientist, so for me, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that an idea or theory with evidence to back it up is better than one without it. I cannot even really see how any rational person could say otherwise, for even if you refuse to believe in evolution, and you say you believe in God, you still concede that it takes faith to believe in God, basically admitting there is no hard proof. And that's fine, but I don't see how you can say that something that we are asked to believe on blind faith is a "better" theory. It may simply be more appealing to you, but that does not make it better.

Originally posted by kittflynn
That's a good example of the chicanery I was talking about. Referring to evolutionists as scoffers who follow their own evil desires is the very worst, most grossest type of demogogery. I'm at a loss for words that would be appropritate to write on this forum to explain how disgusting that putrid piece of propaganda comes across to me. Teaching the bible should not include demonizing non-believers. There is nothing evil about studying the theories of evolution and there is certainly no book that "completely disproves evolution" or however it was the article put it.

:clap: Here here, I agree with all of that.

The thing that I don't get is that many people seem to think that you cannot be a good person if you do not follow the Bible. You can still have basic human decency without following any book or any faith. In fact, I know for a fact that I am a more loving, caring, and forgiving individual than many so-called Christians I have met.

And about what Kittflynn said about separation of Church and state....it's too damn bad there aren't some Jews or Muslims or Zoroastrians or Buddhists or something out there that was also pushing to have their beliefs taught in schools, because then maybe the Christians would really have to stop and think a minute about what they are advocating. After all, heaven forbid any innocent school child should be poisoned with the teachings of a heathen religion. Maybe then they would realize that, as Kitt said, the whole friggin' point is to protect everyone's freedom.

[Kitt]

Bootsy, I think you mentioned "Intelligent Design". You must have edited it out, and I think I know why. Something to do with Indians? (lol) I'll call that an inside joke although I don't know if you'll get it or not. Anyway, not wanting to waste some perfectly good research, I've brought "Intelligent Design" to the table...

"Intelligent Design". Boy I'm sorry I missed the board meeting when someone came up with that handle. The same old group who's always promoting the teaching of creationism in public schools are using a more sneaky than usual approach to attain their goal of circumventing the constitution and breaking down the separation of church and state by using the label of Intelligent Design and calling it science based education. Except unlike all other science curriculum proposals they'd like to by-pass peer review because "scientists flatly regect ID as non-scientific." The ID folk, in the spirit of JWilhight, (kidding) are saying the creator could have been an alien or - name your joke - just don't say the creator was God. They're hoping that that small detail being left to speculation will be of some help getting them in the door. I'm not for that. But you'd think that it would bother some Christians or anyyone with scruples that the ID group, who are an amalgamation of the christian right, are building an entire operation around tactics that include, or more pointedly, require, lying day and night? Ends justify the means? Is that it?

[Czas na Zywiec]

Originally posted by Bootsy Whoosh
Well I guess that's just something we will have to disagree on. I hope you never have an interest in becoming a scientist, because if you tried to get something published in a journal without any evidence to back you up you'd be laughed out of the scientific community.

Nope, I don't like science. That's why I get C's in it. So now worry about me writing an article anytime soon. I wanna be a world traveler. Visit the great cathedrals of Central Europe and the rainforests of South America. Plus sometime, it's good to get laughed at. Thanks for saying that.

I consider myself a scientist, so for me, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that an idea or theory with evidence to back it up is better than one without it. I cannot even really see how any rational person could say otherwise, for even if you refuse to believe in evolution, and you say you believe in God, you still concede that it takes faith to believe in God, basically admitting there is no hard proof. And that's fine, but I don't see how you can say that something that we are asked to believe on blind faith is a "better" theory. It may simply be more appealing to you, but that does not make it better.


And I hope you succeed as a scientist. I like people that set goals for themselves and not waste their life away. I've known too many people like that.



Don't worry, I'm not gonna bother you with my damn pointless posts anymore. And I'm not saying that you think or said that. I'm saying myself cause I shouldn't have posted and made you type out that whole paragraph and waste all that time just for me. I'll just quit posting here. :lookaroun

[hypr56]

that is a hard thing to think about because it would be nothing...but even if it's nothing there has to be something. some people say that the big bang created the world...who made the big bang...???:wave: :wave: :wave:

[Bootsy Whoosh]

Chris, if I had considered your post pointless or thought it was a waste of my time to reply to it, I would not have replied to it. I do not understand why everyone seems to always back away if I disagree with them. Just because I don't end my posts with smiley faces or say "no offense" everytime I say something does not mean I intend to offend or that I am angry with anyone. I simply like and enjoy healthy debate on any topic, and I think sometimes people go overboard with the whole "no offense" after every sentence. I guess maybe some people just don't like healthy debate, or something..... if someone thinks I'm being rude or something feel free to call me on it....

Kitt, I erased the part about Intelligent Design because I had originally intended to make a whole separate post about it, with a poll and everything! How fun! But....I decided maybe to hold off for a bit. I would like some people who I haven't see in awhile to be able to participate in the discussion, such as Dawsongirl, Jenny, Ags2000 (I know she pops in but hasn't been around much the last week or so)....so anyhoo, I thought maybe I'd wait a bit and see if some of those people came back before I made the poll.

Suffice it to say though, we see eye to eye on it. And sorry, I didn't get the joke. :confused:

[17Mar59]

If God hadn't created the world then ipso facto we wouldn't be here discussing this topic today.

Quickie view of my beliefs:

1.God (Father,Son,Holy Ghost)created the universe.

2.Adam and Eve blew it by sinning.

3.God flooded the entire World in Noah's time.

4.God became incarnate as the God-Man Jesus Christ
(fully God and fully Man)

5.Jesus died on the Cross for our sins and rose from the
dead.

6.Jesus is coming back again.:)

7.Judgment Day

8.New Heavens and New Earth where no Evil or Bad things are!!!:)

[Czas na Zywiec]

Originally posted by Bootsy Whoosh
Chris, if I had considered your post pointless or thought it was a waste of my time to reply to it, I would not have replied to it. I do not understand why everyone seems to always back away if I disagree with them. Just because I don't end my posts with smiley faces or say "no offense" everytime I say something does not mean I intend to offend or that I am angry with anyone. I simply like and enjoy healthy debate on any topic, and I think sometimes people go overboard with the whole "no offense" after every sentence. I guess maybe some people just don't like healthy debate, or something..... if someone thinks I'm being rude or something feel free to call me on it....

No I'm just in a bad part of my life since I'm graduationg next year. Don't feel bad, you're not being rude. :) I'm just in a slump thats all.

[*Marilyn Monroe*]

Originally posted by 17Mar59
If God hadn't created the world then ipso facto we wouldn't be here discussing this topic today.

Quickie view of my beliefs:

1.God (Father,Son,Holy Ghost)created the universe.

2.Adam and Eve blew it by sinning.

3.God flooded the entire World in Noah's time.

4.God became incarnate as the God-Man Jesus Christ
(fully God and fully Man)

5.Jesus died on the Cross for our sins and rose from the
dead.

6.Jesus is coming back again.:)

7.Judgment Day

8.New Heavens and New Earth where no Evil or Bad things are!!!:)

Well...you made that easy for me, because i was going to have to type the whole thing. I believe everything that you posted.

[Kitt]

Originally posted by Bootsy Whoosh
Kitt, sorry, I didn't get the joke. :confused: I didn't think that you would get it Bootsy so I PM'd you yesterday with an explanation. I might have been partly correct but I see from what you wrote that I didn't know what most of your reason for deleting it was. Anyway, you'll see.

[Dr. Lilith Sternin]

ks, I was going to post on this topic before I got to your reply. I couldn't have said it better. I agree with you 100% on all you said.

It all sums up to one word...

FAITH

[Bootsy Whoosh]

Originally posted by Ricky Ricardo
No I'm just in a bad part of my life since I'm graduationg next year. Don't feel bad, you're not being rude. :) I'm just in a slump thats all.

Sorry to hear you're in a slump Chris. Buck up, graduating ain't so bad! Well, hope you feel happier soon....