Kennedy

[MJFfan]

Hey!
What does everybody think of him? This will probably suprise you..
I strongly dislike him! I would have voted for Nixon!

[MLB]

I like John Kennedy, but I actually like Robert even more. This is just my personal opinion, of course, but I think he could have defeated Nixon in the 1968 election.

[Pitooey]

Well back then I
loved Kennedy............ When he
passed away it was such a traumatic
time in our lives. Even though I hear
alot of negativity about him
(after he passed) those times were
magical times.

[MJFfan]

Most people like him because he said
"Think not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."
I consider this a socialist remark.

[Kitt]

I like Kennedy. Nixon was a power monger and holds unending responsibility for keeping us in Vietnam. Even Kennedy misjudged what Vietnam was all about and made some major mistakes in that regard himself I don't know what could possibly be wrong with asking what you can do for your country. To call that statement socialist is truly misunderstnading the meaning of socialist. Actually, Kennedy didn't make up that phrase, he altered it and borrowed it. It's no more devious or original than say, the golden rule.

[Truth]

I like Kennedy, right before he was killed its believed he was going to tell the truth about aliens to everyone and then he was killed, Gee...Could there be a connection?

[FolFanatic151]

:) The first and only (so far) Roman Catholic president! Hey, I like him. He's from my state! I went to his Library and Museum in the fall. He was a pretty cool guy.

[XoVanillaRain90oX]

Originally posted by JWillhight
I like Kennedy, right before he was killed its believed he was going to tell the truth about aliens to everyone and then he was killed, Gee...Could there be a connection?

yea, u told me LoL

I have no comment here :D

[FamilyTiesFan]

It seem to me like a patriotic remark than a socialist remark. If you think it is a socialist remark I think you are misinterpreting it.

[MJFfan]

Originally posted by kittflynn
I don't know what could possibly be wrong with asking what you can do for your country. To call that statement socialist is truly misunderstnading the meaning of socialist. Actually, Kennedy didn't make up that phrase, he altered it and borrowed it. It's no more devious or original than say, the golden rule.

Look at the phrase a bit closer...
What does it mean? It means serve your government!!!!

[MJFfan]

Originally posted by FolFanatic151
:) The first and only (so far) Roman Catholic president!

I'm Roman Catholic, so people would expect me to like him, but I don't.

[Swimfan85]

Originally posted by FolFanatic151
:) The first and only (so far) Roman Catholic president! Hey, I like him. He's from my state! I went to his Library and Museum in the fall. He was a pretty cool guy.


irish catholic...not roman haha...yah i thought kennedy was a great guy...and his personal life was his business...but what he did in combat and office i really respect him for it...wow this brings me back to my memories when i was in 3/4 i had my president obsession and he was my favorite president...o gezze i was cool..

[Swimfan85]

i no the most random information bout him if anyone cares to know lol:wave:

[FolFanatic151]

Originally posted by hockeybabe528



irish catholic...not roman haha...yah i thought kennedy was a great guy...and his personal life was his business...but what he did in combat and office i really respect him for it...wow this brings me back to my memories when i was in 3/4 i had my president obsession and he was my favorite president...o gezze i was cool..

LOL Yeah, Irish Catholic (like me!)...but technically it's Roman Catholic... Hey, let's hear that random info, Keightee! 9BTW, where have you been? I haven't seen you online lately! You get a new screen name and not tell me or something? ;) )

[Swimfan85]

Originally posted by FolFanatic151

You get a new screen name and not tell me or something? ;) )


yepppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp and im talking to you now!!

[FolFanatic151]

Originally posted by hockeybabe528



yepppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp and im talking to you now!!

LOL Yeah, so let's hear the Kennedy facts. :D

[cablejockey]

I've always been fascinated by the Kennedys, esp the President and his wife Jackie. There's been no one like them since.

[MJFfan]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Kitt]

Originally posted by MJFfan


Look at the phrase a bit closer...
What does it mean? It means serve your government!!!!
A country isn't a government. A country is made up of people. The people create the government. It is in the peoples best interest to oversee THEIR own government. Governments may be corrupt or overbearing and any other derogatory word or phrase you would like to attach to them. But the government, "of the people for the people and by the people" is, ideally, in the hands of the people. If you think of your government as the enemy, then it surely will be.

[MJFfan]

Originally posted by kittflynn

A country isn't a government. A country is made up of people. The people create the government. It is in the peoples best interest to oversee THEIR own government. Governments may be corrupt or overbearing and any other derogatory word or phrase you would like to attach to them. But the government, "of the people for the people and by the people" is, ideally, in the hands of the people. If you think of your government as the enemy, then it surely will be.

:rolleyes: Did I SAY that the government wuz the enemy???? No, I didn't. If somebody asked what you could do for your country, what would you say?

[°Bubbly Blonde°]

Originally posted by MJFfan


:rolleyes: Did I SAY that the government wuz the enemy???? No, I didn't. If somebody asked what you could do for your country, what would you say?
I would say, 'lots of stuff'. Work to clean up the environment, help animals, help give poor people money...why do you have such a problem with helping your country?

[Kitt]

Originally posted by tcbubblegrl

I would say, 'lots of stuff'. Work to clean up the environment, help animals, help give poor people money...why do you have such a problem with helping your country? Indeed!

[MJFfan]

Originally posted by tcbubblegrl

I would say, 'lots of stuff'. Work to clean up the environment, help animals, help give poor people money...why do you have such a problem with helping your country?

:rolleyes: Did I SAY I had a problem???????? :rolleyes: Consider this for a moment please!! No, I didn't say I had a problem.
:rolleyes: Anyhow, do you think a person who has SEVERAL affairs (including the one w/ Marylin Monroe, would really be interested in helping their country??????? :rolleyes:

Just for the record, I don't beleive the environmetn needs cleaning up. But that's not part of the argument...

[°Bubbly Blonde°]

Originally posted by MJFfan


:rolleyes: Did I SAY I had a problem???????? :rolleyes: Consider this for a moment please!! No, I didn't say I had a problem.
:rolleyes: Anyhow, do you think a person who has SEVERAL affairs (including the one w/ Marylin Monroe, would really be interested in helping their country??????? :rolleyes:

Just for the record, I don't beleive the environmetn needs cleaning up. But that's not part of the argument...
So what if he and Marilyn had an affair!? What's the big @ss deal!!? Wow! I guess you consider Thomas Jefferson one of our worst Presidents if you're gonna go on that. FYI: Thomas Jefferson (our ''founding father'') had an affair with a slave of his! (As if OWNING A SLAVE wasn't bad enough!?) I saw it on CBS: "The Sally Hemmings Story" or something like that. lol
Also: the environment DOES need cleaning up! The air is only made up of 35% oxygen today, and that's also the reason for alot of the sicknesses today. So, no, having an affair means NOTHING, of how well you do in office IMO! All My Opinion People ;)

[Kitt]

Originally posted by MJFfan


:rolleyes: Did I SAY I had a problem???????? :rolleyes: Consider this for a moment please!! No, I didn't say I had a problem.
:rolleyes: Anyhow, do you think a person who has SEVERAL affairs (including the one w/ Marylin Monroe, would really be interested in helping their country??????? :rolleyes:

Just for the record, I don't beleive the environmetn needs cleaning up. But that's not part of the argument...
You began this by saying "ask what you can do for your country" is a socialist statement. When I disagreed you insisted that Kennedy really was talking about his idea of a socilaist goverment. So I guess you think that country and government are the same thing? Or Kennedy was being sneaky in his statement? I'd say he was putting together a few words in a speach for dramatic effect, while asking the populace to see what they might do to pitch in and make this a better country for one and all. Even people who have affairs are capable of caring about their country, the environment and lots of other worthy matters.

You'll find disagreement on the amount of cleanup the envirnonment needs and how to go about accomplishing that cleanup, but you won't find many that will sincerely say, "I don't believe the environment needs cleaning up."

[MJFfan]

Originally posted by tcbubblegrl

So what if he and Marilyn had an affair!? What's the big @ss deal!!? Wow! I guess you consider Thomas Jefferson one of our worst Presidents if you're gonna go on that. FYI: Thomas Jefferson (our ''founding father'') had an affair with a slave of his! (As if OWNING A SLAVE wasn't bad enough!?) I saw it on CBS: "The Sally Hemmings Story" or something like that. lol
Also: the environment DOES need cleaning up! The air is only made up of 35% oxygen today, and that's also the reason for alot of the sicknesses today. So, no, having an affair means NOTHING, of how well you do in office IMO! All My Opinion People ;)

An affair has alot to do with the morality of a person. If a president isn't moral he isn't a good leader for the country.

[Jimbo]

I never had much use for the Kennedy brothers.

JFK, through his numerous attempts to kill or overthrow Fidel Castro (such as his brilliant move when he authorized the Bay of Pigs invasion) provoked Castro to the point where he allowed the Soviet Union to start setting up nuclear missle bases in Cuba. As a result, we had the Cuban Missle Crisis, and damn near got into a nuclear war with the Soviets. It was also JFK, along with his successor LBJ, who escalated the war in Viet Nam and sent thousands of troops to South East Asia. Say what you want about Richard Nixon, at least he brought the troops home.

It was Robert Kennedy who, as Attorney General, ordered the F.B.I. to wiretap the phone of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Ted Kennedy has proven that, if you're rich and influential, you can get drunk, drive off a bridge, drown a young girl, and buy your way out of it. Thank God he never became President.

Jackie Kennedy was always a class act. JFK Jr., and Caroline Kennedy seemed to be decent people, but I don't think much of their uncles.

[ISmellFine]

Maura and her husband [Billy Morrissette]'s dog is named Rose Kennedy. She's a black pug. *snickers*

[Kitt]

Originally posted by Jimbo
ISay what you want about Richard Nixon, at least he brought the troops home. For about a million Vietnamese and about 40,000 Americans he was more than just a little late. And what a shamble of a pull out that was. No honor, no peace.

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by kittflynn
For about a million Vietnamese and about 40,000 Americans he was more than just a little late. And what a shamble of a pull out that was. No honor, no peace.

During Lyndon Johnson's last year in office, there were over a half million American military personnel in Viet Nam. When Richard Nixon began his Presidency in Jan. 1969, the Paris Peace Talks had been going on for 8 months, and the only thing the two sides agreed on was the shape of the conference table they were sitting at! Eight months to decide upon the shape of the table! How many more people died during that 8 month period?

Whoever took over from Johnson, whether it was Richard Nixon, or Hubert Humphrey, they were left with a real mess to deal with. Nixon began his policy of "Vietnamization", whereby the American presence in Southeast Asia would be be phased out, and the South Viet Nam military would take on more and more responsibility for the conduct of the war. Nixon reduced troop levels by almost 61,000 his first year in office, followed by further reductions of about 140,000 in 1970, bringing home another 178,000 in 1971, and then withdrawing the last U.S. combat troops in June 1972. Some non-combat personnel remained, and American POWs were released in 1973.

At one point in 1972, a tentative cease fire was agreed upon by North Viet Nam and the United States. Unfortunately, South Vietnamese leader Nguyen Van Thieu then demanded changes to the agreement which were totally unacceptable to the North. As a result, the cease fire was scuttled, and hostilities continued.

Was Nixon's approach the best way to end our involvement in Viet Nam? I don't know the answer to that.

Could the troop withdrawls have been accomplished more quickly? Possibly. How much quicker, I don't know.

Given the situation that Nixon inherited when he took office, what do you feel would have been a more viable strategy to pursue?

[Kitt]

When Nixon took office he, Kissinger, and other key players knew that the war in Vietnam a lost cause. To pretend that it wasn't was not a strategy in dealing with the Vietnamese it was a strategy to prolong a political war. The only steps to take should have been geared toward getting out as quickly as possible, rather than claiming to be making progress in a lost cause. Nixon ran for office with a "secret plan" to end the war in Vietnam. It ended years later when congress cut off funds. The "inhereted mess" defense is a weak excuse to remain embroiled in that mess year, after year, after deadly year.

The following is an edited quote from www.fas.org.

[The setback suffered by the United States in Vietnam was rooted in a failure of strategy. No war in American history shows more clearly both the difficulty of making sound strategic judgements and the dire consequences of a lack of clear strategic vision. the Vietnam war provides a cautionary tale for American political and military decision-makers about the crucial importance of thinking clearly about a strategy.]

[Jimbo]

Kittflynn:

I think that you and I are in violent agreement on this topic. I agree that Viet Nam was a lost cause when Nixon took office. In my previous post, I wasn't endorsing Nixon's "Vietnamization" policy - I was merely describing what was involved in that approach. I stated that I didn't know if that was the best approach or not. I also agree that we should have gotten out as quickly as possible. The question then becomes this: What would have been the best way to accomplish that?

(By the way, we've gotten completely off of the original topic of this thread!)

[Kitt]

I'm glad that we agree on that. As for laying out the plan to beat all plans, or any viable plan for having gotten the heck out, I wouldn't professs to have one, at least not one that couldn't be shot full of holes.

Off topic: anyone may jump in if they like and take it away.