"Sudden Terror" - a new book about the Original Night Stalker

[Kane]

There is a new book titled "Sudden Terror." The book is about the unknown California serial killer known as The Original Night Stalker.

As you know, the Original Night Stalker had previously committed a series of rapes during the 1970s and was known as the East Area Rapist. He then committed at least six confirmed murders during the 1980s, the last of which was in May 1986. It wasn't until a number of years later when DNA testing proved that the East Area Rapist and the Original Night Stalker were one and the same. Most of his killings predated - and were similar to - those of the killings commited by "Night Stalker" Richard Ramierz. Hence the nickname "Original Night Stalker."

Also, as you probably remember, UM did a segment on the Original Night Stalker, which was originally broadcast in 2002. The segment, however, never specifically mentions the killer by that nickname.

Larry Crompton, the author of "Sudden Terror", was one of the detectives who investigated the East Area rapes in the '70s. He wrote the book in the hope that it will lead to a resolution to the serial murder case.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/08/prweb4220564.htm

[Corky Kneivel]

I bought my copy after reading the oress release in the Sacramento Bee last Saturday. I'm about 100 pages away from being done (its 481 pages) and man oh man is there a lot of never-before-released info. There are some shocking revelations in there about how the EAr offended and the things he said and did.

Each chapter is a different rape/attack. The who, whats, whens, and wheres are recounted for each attack. Its most definitely written by a policeman as it has a policemans grim sense of humor throughout, and is obviously not the work of a professional writer. But so what really? The things that make him a good cop don't necessarily have to make him a sensitive person or a spectacular author.

So far whats really struck me is the lack of description of the events surrounding each attack, what the EA must have been doing ro how he got around the neighborhoods. It really goes a long way to illustrate just how there is no clue as to the guy is. None. They don't even have suspects. They haven't figured out whether he was a student (brought up), where he might have worked, if he'd done time (brought up), or have a sure idea of what he even looks like. Its crazy.

[Zlatko]

I bought my copy after reading the oress release in the Sacramento Bee last Saturday. I'm about 100 pages away from being done (its 481 pages) and man oh man is there a lot of never-before-released info. There are some shocking revelations in there about how the EAr offended and the things he said and did.

Each chapter is a different rape/attack. The who, whats, whens, and wheres are recounted for each attack. Its most definitely written by a policeman as it has a policemans grim sense of humor throughout, and is obviously not the work of a professional writer. But so what really? The things that make him a good cop don't necessarily have to make him a sensitive person or a spectacular author.

So far whats really struck me is the lack of description of the events surrounding each attack, what the EA must have been doing ro how he got around the neighborhoods. It really goes a long way to illustrate just how there is no clue as to the guy is. None. They don't even have suspects. They haven't figured out whether he was a student (brought up), where he might have worked, if he'd done time (brought up), or have a sure idea of what he even looks like. Its crazy.Sounds like it's worthwhile reading. I think it's eerie that this guy is still possibly in everyday society. He could be anyone's next door neighbor. It's amazing to think about the amount of people he terrorized, yet there's still no solid clue to who he is.

[Kane]

Sounds like it's worthwhile reading. I think it's eerie that this guy is still possibly in everyday society. He could be anyone's next door neighbor. It's amazing to think about the amount of people he terrorized, yet there's still no solid clue to who he is.

I am considering getting that book at some point. It didn't surprise me to learn that it contains information that was never released before, which means there is a lot of info that was unavailable to UM or any other show that has featured the case (i.e., Cold Case Files and E! THS Investigates).

[Corky Kneivel]

I've given consideration to the possibility that there are certain aspects of the writing and publishing of this book done with the intention of perhaps coaxing EAR into bringing himself out. Similar to the way BTK was "challenged" and eventually nabbed.

Such things include but are not limited to:

This book is put out through a website for self-publishers. To buy the book you have to give your name, address, birth date, and credit card information. Maybe they're hopeful EAR gets curious?? They can check a list of purchasers against old interviewees/suspects formerly ruled out.
Almost every victim is quoted as remarking at how small and skinnyEAR's penis is (this is repeated ad nauseum throughout the book) and how he was unable to maintain an erection several times.
EAR apparently "sobbed" at various attacks, going into a corner to cry (convincingly to the victims), and repeat over and over "Mommy...mommy...I don't want to do this any more" or some varitation of that lament.**
There are several psych profiles which reference he is almost certainly afraid of his domineering mother and had zero assertive male presence in his formative years.
There's a brief anecdote of one woman who bought a .357, certain that EAR was going to hit her home. She sat on her kitchen floor every night...waiting. Sure enough one night her window slides open and a man in a ski mask starts noiselessly making his way inside. She fired off a shot, intentionally missing the intruder because she was afraid of getting in trouble. The masked intruder slinked back out the window slowly smelling like he **** his pants. Was this brief mention of a hertofor unknown story thrown in to potentiallly embarass EAR?


Kane, Zlatko, I highly recommend this book. If for no other reason than an in-depth look at such a bizarre series of crimes.


** one victim thinks he said "Bonnie". He ALWAYS spoke through clenched teeth and whispered so perhaps this was a misunderstanding. The whole "sobbing" (victims words) routine might be just one piece of an elaborate system of ruses, however. It bears mentioning that EAR apparently played games with the LE's by giving several bits of "disinformation" to his victims. He would brag about having a camp along the river, say he just moved from LA, talk about being kicked out of the armed forces, say he drove a van, etc. Several consistent, and several inconsistent, statements most likely left with the voctims to give LE's and lead them on a wild goose chase.

[Zlatko]

I've given consideration to the possibility that there are certain aspects of the writing and publishing of this book done with the intention of perhaps coaxing EAR into bringing himself out. Similar to the way BTK was "challenged" and eventually nabbed.

Such things include but are not limited to:

This book is put out through a website for self-publishers. To buy the book you have to give your name, address, birth date, and credit card information. Maybe they're hopeful EAR gets curious?? They can check a list of purchasers against old interviewees/suspects formerly ruled out.
Almost every victim is quoted as remarking at how small and skinnyEAR's penis is (this is repeated ad nauseum throughout the book) and how he was unable to maintain an erection several times.
EAR apparently "sobbed" at various attacks, going into a corner to cry (convincingly to the victims), and repeat over and over "Mommy...mommy...I don't want to do this any more" or some varitation of that lament.**
There are several psych profiles which reference he is almost certainly afraid of his domineering mother and had zero assertive male presence in his formative years.
There's a brief anecdote of one woman who bought a .357, certain that EAR was going to hit her home. She sat on her kitchen floor every night...waiting. Sure enough one night her window slides open and a man in a ski mask starts noiselessly making his way inside. She fired off a shot, intentionally missing the intruder because she was afraid of getting in trouble. The masked intruder slinked back out the window slowly smelling like he **** his pants. Was this brief mention of a hertofor unknown story thrown in to potentiallly embarass EAR?


Kane, Zlatko, I highly recommend this book. If for no other reason than an in-depth look at such a bizarre series of crimes.


** one victim thinks he said "Bonnie". He ALWAYS spoke through clenched teeth and whispered so perhaps this was a misunderstanding. The whole "sobbing" (victims words) routine might be just one piece of an elaborate system of ruses, however. It bears mentioning that EAR apparently played games with the LE's by giving several bits of "disinformation" to his victims. He would brag about having a camp along the river, say he just moved from LA, talk about being kicked out of the armed forces, say he drove a van, etc. Several consistent, and several inconsistent, statements most likely left with the voctims to give LE's and lead them on a wild goose chase.Thanks for the information, Corky. Wow, if the masked intruder was in fact the EAR, imagine all the people that have been spared if the woman had shot the guy. I don't think the author would lie about such an account.

I recall watching the E Special on the EAR. It mentioned that a woman claimed to have seen the EAR roaming around her neighbor's house but she was too afraid to call the cops. Corky, does the book mention anything about this account?

[Kane]

Kane, Zlatko, I highly recommend this book. If for no other reason than an in-depth look at such a bizarre series of crimes.

Not only do I intend to get Sudden Terror, but a few months ago I wrote to America's Most Wanted, suggesting they do a segment on the case.

[LaurierCrimmajor]

A sincerely interesting case, but one that I doubt will ever be solved unless this guy gets popped for a lesser/unrelated charge and his DNA profile matches what they have.

I mean, he could be goaded out due to them challenging his manhood in the book etc, but honestly, I don't think he'd take the bait unless he was intellectually petty(which he possibly could be), but considering how long he's been free would lead one to believe that he probably isn't going to take the bait at something so obviously poking at the bushes.

I would love to study the geographic profile of his attacks, because I've been studying that in school last semester and really believe that that style of criminology offers some interesting insights.

[Corkys-Place]

I recently watched a doco on this lunatic and was shocked at the brutality of some of his crimes. Had I been living in these areas during his reign of terror I would have been absolutely petrified. :confused:

[kadrmas15]

The problem is, all the so called 'composites' of this guy all look wildly different. The wild eyes, the normal looking guy, they are all different. My guess is, the EAR would be a guy, if you stood next to him in line at a supermarket, he would not act or look creepy at all. He in fact would be the guy you would least suspect of being a serial rapist and murderer. If he is still alive, my guess is he probably has not done state prison time, certainly not recently when DNA came into the picture and my guess is also while he acts one way with his victims, with people in his day to day life he acts very different. He either acts charismatic and charming or he at least does not make waves and might even come off as introspective and quiet, hence why no one that knew him ever suspected that he would have anything to do with this. BTK was the same way, a seemingly normal family man and church goer who was a good worker and good neighbor and didn't make waves and no one suspected him of having done his crimes until he outed himself.

[kadrmas15]

My guess on the EAR is contrary to the common profile reports, I do NOT think this guy acted the way with people in his day to day life that he acted like with the victims. My guess is the EAR's family and friends saw a very different person than we see. The EAR obviously had/has a very dark side that his family and friends and day to day acquaintances knew nothing about and would not connect with him.

[kadrmas15]

Also, I find Corky's theory interesting, that the book was written perhaps with the intention of getting the EAR if he still amongst us to want to try to do something that might without his knowledge, end up catching himself. However there are differences between EAR and BTK in this regard too. BTK had contacted the media back in the 70's and 80's albeit by letter whereas EAR to my knowledge never did this. Thus while EAR certainly followed the coverage of his crimes via the media he never felt a strong urge to actually contact them or interject himself in the investigation. The only reaching out I can tell EAR did was to contact his victims in the years sometimes decades after the attacks and rub their noses in it, in terms of what he did to them.

[MegtheEgg86]

My guess on the EAR is contrary to the common profile reports, I do NOT think this guy acted the way with people in his day to day life that he acted like with the victims. My guess is the EAR's family and friends saw a very different person than we see. The EAR obviously had/has a very dark side that his family and friends and day to day acquaintances knew nothing about and would not connect with him.

I agree. I think the EAR/ONS lived a very compatmentalized life, as many violent criminals (and almost always intelligent ones) often do. And that is perhaps the main reason why he was never caught, as is unfortunately all too often the case.

[nohwheregirl]

Also, I find Corky's theory interesting, that the book was written perhaps with the intention of getting the EAR if he still amongst us to want to try to do something that might without his knowledge, end up catching himself. However there are differences between EAR and BTK in this regard too. BTK had contacted the media back in the 70's and 80's albeit by letter whereas EAR to my knowledge never did this. Thus while EAR certainly followed the coverage of his crimes via the media he never felt a strong urge to actually contact them or interject himself in the investigation. The only reaching out I can tell EAR did was to contact his victims in the years sometimes decades after the attacks and rub their noses in it, in terms of what he did to them.
Agreed on all accounts, but what he DID do was contact at least one of his victims after the crime. This leads me to think that he might try to contact the victims who revealed his...uh...inadequacies. I'm not sure if I would go so far as to say this is an irresponsible move on the author's part, but it's always a risk if he is still out there.

I would love to read this book, I'm just not sure if would be able to sleep at night! I might have to give it a try, though....

[soilentgreen]

Agreed on all accounts, but what he DID do was contact at least one of his victims after the crime. This leads me to think that he might try to contact the victims who revealed his...uh...inadequacies. I'm not sure if I would go so far as to say this is an irresponsible move on the author's part, but it's always a risk if he is still out there.


A very good point, since he contacted the victim years after the attack. If he was keeping tabs on her, there's all likelihood that he was also keeping track of other victims (or their surviving family members).

I think there's a high possibility that this guy is still alive (he might not even have a criminal record, or one as a juvenile for burglary) and possibly has a family that has no idea of his crimes.

[Corky Kneivel]

I recall watching the E Special on the EAR. It mentioned that a woman claimed to have seen the EAR roaming around her neighbor's house but she was too afraid to call the cops. Corky, does the book mention anything about this account?

@Zlatko: Sorry for not responding sooner, I didn't notice your question.

I haven't seen the E! "Behind the Rapist" Special about EAR so I'm not sure of the specific instance you mention was covered, however there is a an instance of a couple noticing a prowler in their neighbor's backyard, then lights on in their house, but they didn't call police and report the incident because they knew their neighbors were on vacation. I guess they figure no harm done since the couple wasn't there. The HELL?!? It wasn't common knowledge amongst the public at that time but EAR would commonly prowl around neighborhoods for weeks, often setting up houses before his attacks. He would break in and leave commonly locked garage and side doors unlocked, gambling that the family wouldn't check that nigth before going to bed and he'd have easy access. There's a story related in the book of a family finding strips of bindings left under a couch pillow and there was no reason they should be there. The police were contacted and hid in the house for the next few nights hoping to catch EAR coming back. H eneevr did.

Forgive me for repeating myself but I find it absolutely terrifying that LE has NO IDEA AT ALL WHO THE GUY IS!! They don't even know for sure what he looks like. They can't figure out why the guy would be able to patrol neighborhoods and commmit crimes during the hours, and with the regularity, he did. They have a few assumptions on the car he drove but there were so many conflicting accounts of "suspicious" cars in the neighborhoods that noone can say for sure what EAR was driving at any given time.

One complaint I have with the author is how he criticizes the public for not reporting prolwers or "suspicious activity" in the neighborhood. I know the above example was egregious and those folks should be criticized but Larry Crompton takes it a little too far with blaming the public for lethargy. Especially when he very often ridicules the reports that did come in. Also the public cannot be held responsible when some of the tales recounted in the book illustrating LEs bumbling are almost literally unbelievable. One example is an attack in Rancho Cordova upon a mother and her daughter, while the other daughter was sleeping in her room, that got out of EAR's control. The mother runs out the front door, with EAR right behind her, followed by the youngest daughter, as the next door nieghbor is out on his lawn yelling for the girls to come to his house and a woman across the street watches the whole thing. She sees the victims run right while EAR runs to her left. She thinks EAR is wearing shorts but realizes that he's naked from the waist down. He runs to the bushes on her side of the street and crouches behind them watching the victims go into the neighbor's house. He then stands up and casually walks away down the street. Police, who are 2 blocks away, arrive on the scene in 1 minute. The fail to find a half naked, ski masked & gloved man hiding in the neighborhood or trying to get into his car. They fail to find his pants anywhere in the house. Either he arrived naked from the waist down or he managed to hide them somewhere once the attack went awry.

I've said on other EAR websites (and those sites are doozies let me tell you...the people there are nucking futs), I don't think the EAR was compartmentalized in his day to day life because I don't think he's the type of offender who could be. He expressed such vitriolic hatred for his victims, women especially, that IMO he must have come off that same way with the people unfortunate enough to know him in his "regular life". I think family, schoolmates, tertiary firends, any girlfriends he might have had (although I agree with the profile consensus that he wouldn't be successful at keeping relationships) would all consider him a loner type with some very odd and strongly held opinions. Victim reports that he smelled, that he sometimes stuttered and spoke in a high pitched voice when excited, he spoke through clenched teeth, his complicated and recognizable m.o., and the things he said all lead me to believe that he couldn't ingratiate himself well into normal society.

[kadrmas15]

I disagree with a lot of the above opinion. Largely because, well, define 'normal'. You ask 10 different people what the word 'normal' means to them and you will get 10 different answers. It is possible your opinion is right but the fact that you complete disregard the fact that he could have been a jekyll and hyde is what I feel law enforcement did and that is why they haven't found him.

But then again, look at Dennis Rader, BTK, he never was on law enforcement's radar screen either until he inadvertently ended up handing himself to them on a silver platter. Rader had his issues yes, but it was issues that his family did not know anything about. Rader did abuse animals as a child but his family was not aware he was doing that. He went to and graduated high school, served an honorable tour in the U.S. Air Force, and also graduated from community college and from Wichita State University. Rader held several jobs including one as an assembler, a husband and wife that were murdered by him worked for the same company but Rader was never viewed as a suspect or even interviewed in that case. He worked for ADT Home Security from 1974 until 1988 when he was fired and that is how he is believed to have learned how to beat home security systems. The reasons for his firing remain unclear.

Now in other regards Rader would have seemed a 'normal' member of society. He attended Church, was in leadership positions at his church, was a Cub Scout leader, served on several local government boards, as I said before, had held several jobs for lengthy periods of time, had been married for 34 years, had two children that he evidently had good relationships with.

Now of course like anyone that is like Rader, he did have his slip ups but it seems he was able to either because he was so smart or just through pure chance, the incidents where he slipped up did not appear to seriously affect him, in terms of his image. In his job as supervisor for the Park City Compliance Department, he had been reported once for killing a dog when it was deemed not necessary but the complaint went no where. He was also thought of by residents as going out of his way to write residents up and came off as overbearing. Rader had also had restraining orders filed against him, two in the 1980's and one in the 1990's. However it appears he was never prosecuted officially for the crimes, as at the time, stalking laws were much more lax. Rader, while he was in the Air Force, served at stations in Texas, Alabama, Japan, Turkey, Greece and South Korea but no murders in those areas that occurred while he was in the area have been attributed to him.

Anyway, sorry for the long thing on Rader, just that Rader, like EAR could be a person that has his slip ups but overall appears to be normal. It is possible, and Rader was never known to be a suspect or even on law enforcement's radar screen until 2005, so the same could be true of EAR who while I have no evidence but I believe that EAR also was probably in the U.S. Air Force.

[kadrmas15]

Despite the common believe that serial killers and thus according to many people sociopaths cannot adjust to situations that deal with authority, this is not true. Dennis Rader did it in the Air Force during his time there from 1966 to 1970 and was discharged honorably. David Berkowitz aka Son of Sam served in the U.S. Army from 1971 to 1974 and also was honorably discharged. Jeffrey Dahmer served in the U.S. Army as well from 1978 to 1981. Dahmer was given only a general discharge as he was discharged largely due to his alcoholism. William Bonin 'the Freeway Killer' served in the U.S. Air Force from 1965 to 1968, serving in Vietnam as a tail gunner and winning decorations and was honorably discharged. Roy Norris who along with Lawrence Wittaker also terrorized southern California in the late 1970's, Norris served in the U.S. Navy from 1965 to 1969 and was honorably discharged. Charles Cullen the so called 'killer nurse' in New Jersey and Pennsylvania served in the U.S. Navy from 1978 to 1984 and was honorably discharged. Leonard Lake of the sick duo of Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, Lake served in the U.S. Marine Corps from 1965 to 1971 including two tours of duty in Vietnam. Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer served in the U.S. Navy from 1967 to 1971. Arthur Shawcross served in the U.S. Army from 1965 to 1969 and was honorably discharged. Michael Swango served in the U.S. Marine Corps from 1972 to 1980. Robert Yates served in the U.S. Army from 1976 to 1995.

[Zlatko]

I managed to get the book and I'm almost finished reading it. It's quite an interesting book. Here are some of my observations.

1. I really do think the EAR thrived during a time when the technology didn't connect communities. The nut job went from attacking people from Sacramento to Danville to So-Cal. People probably didn't know this guy was on the loose in distant communities. I'm sure if he tried to pull the things he was doing today, he'd likely be caught.

2. It intrigues me that the guy always managed to strike homes with either a woman alone or a couple. Never did he enter a home with just a male. One would infer that he was constantly looking into homes trying to see if there was a female present. I wonder if more people noticed this guy looking into their houses.

3. I think Corky mentioned this but it's been said that the EAR would start to talk about his mom during the times he was ransacking homes. He'd start saying "Mommy, please, I don't want to do it" and weird stuff like that. Also, he told one of the victims that people made fun of him and that something happened to his face. Either way, the EAR struck me as someone who had a massive chip on his shoulder. It makes me think that he'd have a hard time just blending into society.

Edit 4. I find it interesting how the EAR became more violent as the years went by. The murders he committed in Southern California were quite violent. Why did he stop? One might assume he would have continued his rampage since he was more violent by then.

[Zlatko]

A very good point, since he contacted the victim years after the attack. If he was keeping tabs on her, there's all likelihood that he was also keeping track of other victims (or their surviving family members).

I think there's a high possibility that this guy is still alive (he might not even have a criminal record, or one as a juvenile for burglary) and possibly has a family that has no idea of his crimes.This is the big question about the EAR. I have a feeling that something might have happened to him. (Died possibly?) From what I read about the EAR, he came off as a very emotionally disturbed person. It'd probably be difficult for him to act normal in society.

I wonder if anyone close to him possibly knew about his identity but didn't say anything to the authorities.

[mattc]

The fact that this monster is STILL on death row in California proves just how horribly ridiculous the criminal justice system is there. Of all the people who deserve to die, and to think he gets to sit in jail and flash female prison guards (which apparently he does quite often), get fan mail from very disturbed women, and even get married to an even more disturbed woman makes me sick. The scary part is that his "wife" even refuses to admit he's guilty on message boards. I don't know what is more disturbing: That this type of man exists, or that people are desperate enough to admire him. Arggghh.

[kadrmas15]

Who are you talking about Matt? Richard Ramirez? Well to me, Ramirez is a guy really not worth wasting emotion on. The fact of the matter he is alive and it is what it is. He isn't going anywhere and yes California's system is a mess, if they had done away with the death penalty a long time ago, at least people wouldn't have all this hope that someone will be executed someday to satisfy some need for 'justice' that they won't feel even when the person is dead. Ramirez's appeal I believe is only before the U.S. District Court, so he will be alive at least another 5 years before his appeals run out. Basically everyone on California's death row is serving LWOP. Supposedly some guy sentenced to death in 1980, whose appeals ran out just this year, had a death warrant issued and will be executed September 29th but I would be shocked if it was actually allowed to happen. Out of the over 700 people on California's death row, only 9 or 10 of them are actually completely out of appeals.

[Kane]

The fact that this monster is STILL on death row in California proves just how horribly ridiculous the criminal justice system is there. Of all the people who deserve to die, and to think he gets to sit in jail and flash female prison guards (which apparently he does quite often), get fan mail from very disturbed women, and even get married to an even more disturbed woman makes me sick. The scary part is that his "wife" even refuses to admit he's guilty on message boards. I don't know what is more disturbing: That this type of man exists, or that people are desperate enough to admire him. Arggghh.

I don't blame you for your disgust, Mattc. Those "very disturbed women" are probably the kind of people who feel like they don't "fit in" anywhere, so they try to compensate for that by sending fan mail to murderous degenerates. At least, that's how I see it.

[mattc]

Hey, sorry Kadrmas.. I should have read the thread more thoroughly to know that the book was referring to another night stalker. I agree with you that he's not worth much emotional thought, but as Kane said, it's just really frustrating to continually see people like him (and other particularly heinous criminals) get so much positive attention from "fans." Really disturbing.

[kadrmas15]

Well the thing is, as disturbing as it may be, those women have the Constitutional right to write to Ramirez and he has the right to respond to them via written communication and if they choose to meet him in person, that way too. I personally tend not to focus or really get all disgusted about certain groupies writing to a person that I do not really spend any emotional energy concentrating on. I have written many prisoners myself and still do although the difference between me and these groupies, is I was never writing to a prisoner for 'kicks' or because I felt that I needed some emotional attention or that I was a fan of a confessed killer. Rather I wrote and write to people I feel are actually innocent.

That said, the whole groupie thing is really very common in the more bigger names, Ramirez is hardly the only one. Charles Manson, Juan Carona, Doug Clark, Randy Craft, Charles Ng, Tommy Lynn Sells, Bobby Joe Long, David Gore, Kenneth Bianchi, Lawrence Bittaker, so many serial killers both on death row and doing life have similar followings, it is just the way it is. Manson and Carona are doing life in California, Clark, Craft, Ng, Bittaker and Ramirez among others are on death row in California, Sells is on death row in Texas, Long and Gore are on death row in Florida, Bianchi is doing life in Washington State while serving concurrent life sentences in California but he is officially doing his time in Washington State.

[nohwheregirl]

E! "Behind the Rapist" Special

Is it wrong that I cracked up over this? I'm pretty sure it's very very wrong.

[Corky Kneivel]

Is it wrong that I cracked up over this? I'm pretty sure it's very very wrong.


lol...sorry. i didn't know the real name.

[mattc]

Well the thing is, as disturbing as it may be, those women have the Constitutional right to write to Ramirez and he has the right to respond to them via written communication and if they choose to meet him in person, that way too. I personally tend not to focus or really get all disgusted about certain groupies writing to a person that I do not really spend any emotional energy concentrating on. I have written many prisoners myself and still do although the difference between me and these groupies, is I was never writing to a prisoner for 'kicks' or because I felt that I needed some emotional attention or that I was a fan of a confessed killer. Rather I wrote and write to people I feel are actually innocent.

That said, the whole groupie thing is really very common in the more bigger names, Ramirez is hardly the only one. Charles Manson, Juan Carona, Doug Clark, Randy Craft, Charles Ng, Tommy Lynn Sells, Bobby Joe Long, David Gore, Kenneth Bianchi, Lawrence Bittaker, so many serial killers both on death row and doing life have similar followings, it is just the way it is. Manson and Carona are doing life in California, Clark, Craft, Ng, Bittaker and Ramirez among others are on death row in California, Sells is on death row in Texas, Long and Gore are on death row in Florida, Bianchi is doing life in Washington State while serving concurrent life sentences in California but he is officially doing his time in Washington State.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I have written to a couple of prisoners as well, not because I thought they were innocent, but b/c I was interested in their psychological profile. That being said, I don't think there is anything wrong with inmates getting and writing letters, but I really worry about them being turned into folk heroes and icons. As you know, I'm an attorney, and I see the grief that these victims' families feel, and the victims are often left out of the picture. I guess it is just a sick byproduct of human nature for people to be so intrigued by serial killers; intrigued is fine, but when they start to become heroes and their innocence is questioned, I really get pissed. You are very textbook about all of this, whereas I think I'm coming at the topic from an emotional standpoint. All I know is that if I were a victim's family member, and I saw that the killer of my loved one was getting "fan mail" from groupies, I'd be sick.

[kadrmas15]

Well, I will say, if you want to blame anyone for them being turned into 'folk heroes' blame the media and also blame the cops who love to seek attention for these cases despite full well knowing it will also bring a lot of attention to the person they arrested. Yes I do know that newspaper, radio, tv, internet do have an obligation to report basic details and basic facts. But when they plaster these guys faces all over the newspapers with big pictures and big letter headlines or when they plaster their faces all over the television, yeah I would think it would glorify the prisoner and the prisoner is not even the one making them do it.

The reason I am textbook about the whole thing, is quite simple. It is because I am not a victim, I don't like thinking of myself as the victim of anything really. I was not victimized by any of these people nor do I know anyone who was. I do not blame people that were for being sickened by it or being mad about it. It is just something I do not get sickened or mad over. I feel like my emotional energy is better wasted on something than else than being ticked off because some guy I don't know, don't write, that really doesn't have any relevance to me other than me knowing who he is, receives letters from certain people who may be disturbed.

Clearly someone that worships or at least acts like they worship say Richard Ramirez or Charles Manson or people of this nature, yeah, let's say might be missing a few dots on their dominoes. It is very obvious that is the case if someone worships a person like Ramirez or Manson and it is sad and pathetic. But it is their lives and if their lives are that lacking to where they need to glorify such people, that is their choice to make.

Sure, we all know what pain victims go through. I am not speaking from experience or claiming to truly know what they go through but I imagine it would be the worst feeling and the worst experience and the worst time of anyone's life and in particular with murder or other violent crime, I am sure that feeling never goes away.

But I think folks need to remember, that defense attorneys are not the bad guys. I think there is a tendency in our society, especially these days to view defense attorney's as the bad guys and to view prosecutors and cops as the 'heroes' when truth be told, most prosecutors and most cops are just like most defense attorney's, it is not about doing justice or doing right, it is about winning cases. A lot of these prosecutors and cops really don't give a crap about the victims or their families anymore than the defense attorney does, the only difference is the defense attorney gets tarred and feathered for doing their job because they are 'not doing justice' yet the prosecutors and cops get rewarded even if they break their own laws in order to win or do other shady things. I guess that it is why it is hard for me to really have a whole lot of respect for either cops or prosecutors as a group as so many think of them as 'the good guys' and it just isn't true.

[MegtheEgg86]

Well, I will say, if you want to blame anyone for them being turned into 'folk heroes' blame the media and also blame the cops who love to seek attention for these cases despite full well knowing it will also bring a lot of attention to the person they arrested. Yes I do know that newspaper, radio, tv, internet do have an obligation to report basic details and basic facts. But when they plaster these guys faces all over the newspapers with big pictures and big letter headlines or when they plaster their faces all over the television, yeah I would think it would glorify the prisoner and the prisoner is not even the one making them do it.

The reason I am textbook about the whole thing, is quite simple. It is because I am not a victim, I don't like thinking of myself as the victim of anything really. I was not victimized by any of these people nor do I know anyone who was. I do not blame people that were for being sickened by it or being mad about it. It is just something I do not get sickened or mad over. I feel like my emotional energy is better wasted on something than else than being ticked off because some guy I don't know, don't write, that really doesn't have any relevance to me other than me knowing who he is, receives letters from certain people who may be disturbed.

Clearly someone that worships or at least acts like they worship say Richard Ramirez or Charles Manson or people of this nature, yeah, let's say might be missing a few dots on their dominoes. It is very obvious that is the case if someone worships a person like Ramirez or Manson and it is sad and pathetic. But it is their lives and if their lives are that lacking to where they need to glorify such people, that is their choice to make.

Sure, we all know what pain victims go through. I am not speaking from experience or claiming to truly know what they go through but I imagine it would be the worst feeling and the worst experience and the worst time of anyone's life and in particular with murder or other violent crime, I am sure that feeling never goes away.

But I think folks need to remember, that defense attorneys are not the bad guys. I think there is a tendency in our society, especially these days to view defense attorney's as the bad guys and to view prosecutors and cops as the 'heroes' when truth be told, most prosecutors and most cops are just like most defense attorney's, it is not about doing justice or doing right, it is about winning cases. A lot of these prosecutors and cops really don't give a crap about the victims or their families anymore than the defense attorney does, the only difference is the defense attorney gets tarred and feathered for doing their job because they are 'not doing justice' yet the prosecutors and cops get rewarded even if they break their own laws in order to win or do other shady things. I guess that it is why it is hard for me to really have a whole lot of respect for either cops or prosecutors as a group as so many think of them as 'the good guys' and it just isn't true.

This. I am in full agreement with everything that's been said here. Thumbs up.

Also, "missing a few dots on their dominoes" is something I will definitely be incorporating into my personal vocabulary.

[nohwheregirl]

I just watched the E! special on EAR/ONS again, and had some questions for those of you who read the book. I still haven't read it myself...

It was mentioned upthread that the EAR/ONS didn't contact the media like BTK or Zodiac, but the E! special mentioned that he did send a poem to LE. Any mention of the poem/its contents in the book?

ETA: I found the poem (on Facebook, of all places). I still would like to know if the author talked about the poem or if there were any other attempts at contacting LE or the media.

Excitement's Crave

All those mortal's surviving birth
Upon facing maturity,
Take inventory of their worth
To prevailing society.

Choosing values becomes a task;
Oneself must seek satisfaction.
The selected route will unmask
Character when plans take action

Accepting some work to perform
At fixed pay, but promise for more,
Is a recognized social norm,
As is decorum, seeking lore.

Achieving while others lifting
Should be cause for deserving fame.
Leisure tempts excitement seeking,
What's right and expected seems tame.

"Jessie James" has been seen by all,
And "Son of Sam" has an author.
Others now feel temptations call.
Sacramento should make an offer.

To make a movie of my life
That will pay for my planned exile.
Just now I'd like to add the wife
Of a Mafia lord to my file.

Your East Area Rapist
And deserving pest
See you in the press or on T.V.

(Written to police (in Sacramento) by the
East Area Rapist / Original Night Stalker circa 1977)

[Zlatko]

nohwheregirl, I do believe the poem was in the book. However, Larry Crompton did not talk about it all that much. Really, most of the book seems like a giant chronology of the crimes committed by the EAR. Crompton doesn't go into specific details about the evidence; much to the detriment of the book IMO.

[soundandvision]

I have been obsessed with this case for years, since seeing the Cold Case Files episode. This guy is the single most prolific offender in American history, perhaps, yet he is largely unknown to the general public. Puzzling.

Something another poster mentioned about one of the rapes in (I think Contra Costa) where the police were literally 1 minute away and the mother realized EAR-ONS was naked from the waste down... but he was seemingly able to disappear into thin air. It makes me wonder, has anyone ever considered that EAR-ONS was a member of the law enforcement community?

[Corky Kneivel]

@nowheregirl: the poem is printed in full and there's a brief mention of it, however its never been proven to come from the EAR/ONS. Whoever wrote it displays a highly intelligent and creative mind, imo.

@soundandvision: I agree that I wish the book could have been more than just a chronology of the attacks. The problem is I don't think there could be much more to say than that. I mean, there is no idea who this guy is. All this time and all the manpower later and law enforcement agencies have no clue who EAR/ONS IS/WAS. Noone has talked. To me thats the most astounding aspect. There has been no ex girlfriend or ex-wife, friend, neighbor, family member, cell mate, stool pigeon....NOBODY to come forward and give the guy up.

Also I don't want to seem like I'm complaining about what the book is, I am so glad Larry Crompton wrote it and I was very glad to learn new aspects of the crimes I hadn't known before. ((That sounds like an odd thing to be glad about but well...))


Something another poster mentioned about one of the rapes in (I think Contra Costa) where the police were literally 1 minute away and the mother realized EAR-ONS was naked from the waste down... but he was seemingly able to disappear into thin air. It makes me wonder, has anyone ever considered that EAR-ONS was a member of the law enforcement community?

That was in Rancho Cordova, the town EAR/ONS started in and the town I grew up in.

Amazing isn't it that he was able to flee buck naked from the waist down, the police pull up literally within minutes, and he still escapes arrest? Absotively posilutely amazing.


I have been obsessed with this case for years,


I have as well. Ever since I stumbled upon that very detailed website earons.com and saw photographs of street signs and houses I saw every day as a child. When I saw those photos I got the clicje "hair standing up on the back of my neck". It was just so creepy to think he had prowled the areas I played in. He had terrorized people I saw every day.

After finishing (devouring is a better term) the book in about 3 days I started talking to random people I met aeround town. People aged 50+. I have had lengthy discussion, mostly with women who were late teens/early twenties in the mid 70s, on the train, at the market, at the library, regarding that time here in Sacramento. Its fascinating to hear their stories. I've talked to a woman, who still lives in the same house near the Orangevale attack, and who's house is the proto-typical corner house with plenty of park/country cover, who saw him(?) staring into her sliding glass door/window while she and her husband lay in bed together. She saw a tightly drawn sweatshirt hood around a white face watching her. Staring straight into each others eyes they had locked contact for probably no longer than a quarter of a minute but she said it felt like forever. She said he silently moved back into the darkness as she started waking her husband. Said hubby went out into the backyard with his pistol but there was no trace. Their neighbor's dog, who barked at any and all visitors, didn't make a peep until her husband went into the yard.

I talked with a close family friend who lived on Aramon Dr. in Rancho Cordova, the last house on the street that had a rainwater ditch run along the back and large soccer field behind that. Again, these are EAR/ONS hallmarks. Some night around Christmas of 75 or 76 he was sleeping in his family's "rec room" and he woke up to see a hooded man walking through the unexpectedly opened sliding glass door, make a beeline for the fireplace where he lit several matches and rummaged through the presents under the tree. He said the intruder didn't once make a noise and had looked over several times at him: a frightened, wide-eyed, kid laying on the couch. He watched him go back out and go out the back fence gate.

There's a bunch more.

[nohwheregirl]

Its fascinating to hear their stories...
There's a bunch more...

Uh, Corky, THIS is why I will probably never be able to read the book. Your post scared the crap out of me! :eek:

Does anyone else find it amazing/disturbing that this detective had to SELF PUBLISH his book? There's no true crime writer out there willing to partner up with him? No major publishing house interested in this story? COME. ON.

[Zlatko]

C'mon Corky, what you said is a tease. :D Do you have any other interesting accounts of the EAR?

[Drakken]

I've talked to a woman, who still lives in the same house near the Orangevale attack, and who's house is the proto-typical corner house with plenty of park/country cover, who saw him(?) staring into her sliding glass door/window while she and her husband lay in bed together. She saw a tightly drawn sweatshirt hood around a white face watching her. Staring straight into each others eyes they had locked contact for probably no longer than a quarter of a minute but she said it felt like forever. She said he silently moved back into the darkness as she started waking her husband. Said hubby went out into the backyard with his pistol but there was no trace. Their neighbor's dog, who barked at any and all visitors, didn't make a peep until her husband went into the yard.


Seeing the composite sketch on page one, I can absolutely understand why, that sketch is mesmerizingly frightening and it made me shiver down my spine just like in the good'ole days of watching UM on TV. :eek:

Really, there should have been a forward warning, because that's one composite I did not want to see.

[Corky Kneivel]

C'mon Corky, what you said is a tease. :D Do you have any other interesting accounts of the EAR?

hahaha. did those creep you out? listening to those stories when they're told is amazing. you can see how these things have stuick with these people and they were the lucky ones!!

I do have some written and two recorded on video. I'm going to try to do a Google Earth thingey showing you the houses in the two stories above, forgive me if I fail at it. But I reall think it will help to illustrate how this offender was able to slip in and around Easteren Sac county so easily. I'm of the opinion the 1st canonical ear/ons attacks weren't his first. I'd like to compare the geography of Rancho Cordova, East Sac (city), Citrus Heights, & Orangevale with Los Gatos, Goleta, & the areas he hit in Contra Costa. See if the bike trails connecting the communities exist. See if tyhere's an extensive ditch and rainwater runoff system he could have traveled through. And see the layout of the neighborhood cul de sacs with open fields/playgrounds.

[Zlatko]

hahaha. did those creep you out? listening to those stories when they're told is amazing. you can see how these things have stuick with these people and they were the lucky ones!!

I do have some written and two recorded on video. I'm going to try to do a Google Earth thingey showing you the houses in the two stories above, forgive me if I fail at it. But I reall think it will help to illustrate how this offender was able to slip in and around Easteren Sac county so easily. I'm of the opinion the 1st canonical ear/ons attacks weren't his first. I'd like to compare the geography of Rancho Cordova, East Sac (city), Citrus Heights, & Orangevale with Los Gatos, Goleta, & the areas he hit in Contra Costa. See if the bike trails connecting the communities exist. See if tyhere's an extensive ditch and rainwater runoff system he could have traveled through. And see the layout of the neighborhood cul de sacs with open fields/playgrounds.Yeah, the account is pretty creepy. Do you plan uploading the two videos on youtube? I'd love to hear more about the locals' accounts.

As for what you said, I grew up in Contra Costa County (Orinda to be specific) and yes, I can imagine how the EAR could have gotten away with his crime. A lot of Contra Costa County is sprawling suburbs, this includes Danville. He could strike at random in any area and just hide. As I recall, parts of Sacramento are just like Contra Costa County. Nothing but sprawling suburbs.

It's eerie now that I think about; my parents never even heard of the EAR, yet they've lived in the Bay Area most of their lives. This just shows how the lack of information given from county to county.

[Arnold_OldSchool]

Got the book for Xmas...about 60 pages in....

One quick question, the book casually mentions the EAS shot a teenager male, and thus the police knew he was capable of murder. There is no back story given to this and it is (so far) not touched on again.

Any more on this from anywhere?

[Arnold_OldSchool]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visalia_ransacker

A long line of burglaries lead to a murfer and attempted kidnapping... Suspect never caught, but may have became EAR - ONS

[cocytus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visalia_ransacker

A long line of burglaries lead to a murfer and attempted kidnapping... Suspect never caught, but may have became EAR - ONS

This case sounds very odd. I'm surprised that this guy could break into that number of homes (none of which apparently had alarm systems and/or dogs) and not be apprehended. I think that the police may have an idea w/ looking for people either in prison for hot prowl burglaries or rapes or looking prowlers that were killed by homeowners as being the fate of the EARS/ONS.

[Arnold_OldSchool]

This case sounds very odd. I'm surprised that this guy could break into that number of homes (none of which apparently had alarm systems and/or dogs) and not be apprehended. I think that the police may have an idea w/ looking for people either in prison for hot prowl burglaries or rapes or looking prowlers that were killed by homeowners as being the fate of the EARS/ONS.

The only catch being he stopped in 81 (IIRC), Had one more credited to him in 86 and called a victim in 91 (IIRC) So if he got shot it may have not been til 91....or there were copycats

[Arnold_OldSchool]

To answer my own question - The teen that the EAR shot heard him run into his Dad's "smoker" outside of their place, the kid gave chase and followed EAR over a fence where he was shot in the belly.

Now 200 pages in and the book is great! I have been experiencing legit heart skipping a beat moments. One case had a woman see a masked man walking/prowling while she is stopped at a intersection at like 2 am. She looks one way to check for traffic, when she turns back EAR is TAPPING ON HER CAR WINDOW WITH A KNIFE! She roared off and EAR gave chase briefly w/ a bike.

Another story had a EAR patrol stop a car right after a rape occured - the man had lube on his front seat and weapons in his trunk. They questioned him at length and never cleared him as a suspect.

[soundandvision]

Another story had a EAR patrol stop a car right after a rape occured - the man had lube on his front seat and weapons in his trunk. They questioned him at length and never cleared him as a suspect.

WOW. I can't imagine many people driving around late at night with that ensemble in their car. Sounds like our guy. I wonder if this suspect's dna has ever been compared to the known sample(s).

[Arnold_OldSchool]

More freaky Stories...

EAR attacked a woman w/ a teen daughter - after tying her up he acted erratic as a group of teens were messing around outside on the street and the woman had back scar that EAR did not see while spying on her, after he raised her shirt he stared at her back for 3-4 mins, while pulling her waist band, finally after the mins passed, he snapped the elastic and never raped her. (The teens might be a different attack, it was either the teens outside or her daughter's alarm that bugged him combined)

Another attack had a babysitter get attacked, but the house phone rang (EAR had not cut the lines as he often did) after 2 sets of 10+ rings, he let the girl say "Hello" and hung up the phone - the phone rang AGAIN and he got flustered and took her outside, where minutes later her parents pulled into the yard and scared him off - he ran to a river and was seen running by a fisher woman.

Another sighting had EAR climbing out of a dumpster at 6:30 am outside a business woman's work.

The EAR did a lot of scouting - may have posed as a realator and a different charity, and wore costumes. A very frustrating book to read as every 3 or 4 pages another attack occurs and the cops relate how all these neighbors heard, saw and experienced wierd things in the weeks leading to the attacks and mostly reporting nothing to police. One couple heard him break into their neighbor's house, but since they knew the neighbor was vacationing in Europe, they did not call the police - IIRC the EAR attacked the family when they returned home.

[Arnold_OldSchool]

More stuff:

EAR was actually caught at least once (I'm nearing the end of the book) he broke into a house and was ransacking it, and he got to the bedroom and the man awoke and watched him put his mask on while clutching shoe laces (his favorite binding tool... The man jumped out of bed and corned EAR screaming at him as his girlfriend ran downstairs (as they had practiced in event of an EAR attack) and called for help, instead of keeping EAR cornered the man ran off too and despite the woman and neighbors being outside no one saw EAR leave, but when the cops checked minutes later EAR was gone.

EAR didn't outright rape all of his victims, forwhatever reason he seemed to just kind of plunge his male protuberance into the girl and pull out almost right away sometimes.

One of the EAR's victim's ended up ENJOYING the rape as she was into kinky sex and she sounded more turned on than emotionally fractured by her attack when cops interviewed her.

One really strange suspect they cleared had a childhood of forced incest, and parents who wore ski caps and flashlights to scare there kids, and even bound the children for sexual purposes, so fitting the EAR's MO to a tee almost, but I believe blood cleared him.

[Arnold_OldSchool]

More:

In most cases the EAR seemed uninterested in playing with the women's breasts, he would rape them and some got anal rape and licked the woman's privates, many were also forced to giving oral sex to EAR...Almost, if not all of the victim's were also forced to stroke his penis w/ bound hands behind their backs, one woman started stroking him before ordered and EAR seemed excited an actually played w/ her breasts after this.

There is a theory that the Goleta Murders are not EAR's doing, since in 2 of the murder's a big German shepard was involved at the crime scene, brought by the Perp. Also in at least 2 of the murder's the Perp lost control of the male and had a struggle before the murder. And in the 1st murder the MALE was anally raped and then castrated. All are not a part of EAR's MO...Some suspect that these were another perp attempted to emulate EAR in order to cover the crimes, and there is some evidence to suggest a mob involvement...this was not in the book, but from another website dealing with the EAR... I believe DNA links EAR to these murders...

The murder's were not reported to Larry Crompton and the EAR Task force as the local police did not want word getting out, since President Reagan owned a house in the area.

[Corky Kneivel]

There is a theory that the Goleta Murders are not EAR's doing... in the 1st murder the MALE was anally raped and then castrated.

WHOA!!! Where did you hear this? Was this from the other websites?



All are not a part of EAR's MO...Some suspect that these were another perp attempted to emulate EAR in order to cover the crimes, and there is some evidence to suggest a mob involvement...this was not in the book, but from another website dealing with the EAR... I believe DNA links EAR to these murders...

I thought it was impossible to get DNA evdience from the Goleta crime scenes as all of that evidence has been destroyed.

I really am up in the air on the Goleta attacks. Enough is different in both the MO and signature of an offender who had a very unique combination of the two to give me pause for doubt. However, enough is similar in MO and signature (reportedly what the Goleta offender was saying to the couple that lived is quite similar to what EAR victims report hearing) that it can be noone else BUT him. I think looking at the time lime lines of the crimes is the a big clue. I just haven't made up my mind which way the clue points.






You know he'll never be identified don't you???

[nohwheregirl]

EAR didn't outright rape all of his victims, forwhatever reason he seemed to just kind of plunge his male protuberance into the girl and pull out almost right away sometimes.
I think we should all just be clear that this is still rape. He just didn't "finish."

[Arnold_OldSchool]

WHOA!!! Where did you hear this? Was this from the other websites?

I thought it was impossible to get DNA evdience from the Goleta crime scenes as all of that evidence has been destroyed.

I really am up in the air on the Goleta attacks. Enough is different in both the MO and signature of an offender who had a very unique combination of the two to give me pause for doubt. However, enough is similar in MO and signature (reportedly what the Goleta offender was saying to the couple that lived is quite similar to what EAR victims report hearing) that it can be noone else BUT him. I think looking at the time lime lines of the crimes is the a big clue. I just haven't made up my mind which way the clue points.


You know he'll never be identified don't you???

DNA linked EAR to ONS as of 1998 IIRC

As of 2010 there is still at least one detective cross checking "person's of interest" based on a list of inmates, sex offender's etc, he started with 4000 names and is down to 100's. Det. Larry Crompton believes EAR to be on the list and thinks this Detective may find him yet.

The rape and castration of the male is from the book as Det Crompton says it confirmed his and others beliefs that EAR had homosexual tendencies...

[Arnold_OldSchool]

Final book notes:

There was one final unconfirmed EAR attack in 1987 - the woman was attacked in bed by a perp with a log who fractured her skull but she lived...Nothing but the murder method and location links this to EAR.

In the 90's, the Sacramento Police threw away a lot of EAR notes and evidence - per their commanding officier's wishes. Larry Crompton personally saved a lot of it from the junk heap, including the only known (possible) hand print of EAR. When the Sacremento D.A. found out Det. Crompton took the files a few years later, he ordered them returned - Crompton did not comply, as everything but one sheet was a mere copy of the original.

The handprint is a photo copy and is nearly useless now in matching due to years of age and lack of ability to get a good copy made from it.

Det. Larry Pool who took charge of the EAR cold case in 98ish (and can be seen in E!'s EAR special, is actually the same cop who started the imfamous OJ white Bronco chase apparently after spotting OJ going to Nicole's grave site.

[Drakken]

In the 90's, the Sacramento Police threw away a lot of EAR notes and evidence - per their commanding officier's wishes. Larry Crompton personally saved a lot of it from the junk heap, including the only known (possible) hand print of EAR. When the Sacremento D.A. found out Det. Crompton took the files a few years later, he ordered them returned - Crompton did not comply, as everything but one sheet was a mere copy of the original.

The handprint is a photo copy and is nearly useless now in matching due to years of age and lack of ability to get a good copy made from it.


Huh? Why?! As the case is still open and the investigation is still ongoing they would be exempt from scheduled destruction, but be preserved in police archives! There is no justification for destroying evidence and notes taken by previous investigators. :confused:

[Truth Sleuth]

I just finished the book today, and I have to say it wasn't what I was hoping for. But I give Larry Crompton a lot of slack because he's a police officer and not a writer. (Except for this book, of course.) Anyway, I have several points to make.

First off, it's really disturbing to me that this guy has never been identified. I'm not saying that to slight the police, just to say that it freaks me out that he could still be out there somewhere. And why did he stop? From what I've read of this type of offender, it's highly unlikely he was able to just stop. Is he dead? In prison? Or is he still active?

Second, as to the woman who took a shot at him... well, hindsight is always 20/20, and I can talk smart because I've never been in a situation like that, but would any jury really have convicted her of a serious crime? Heck, even if she'd have been fined, I imagine the cops would've offered to pay it themselves.

Third, I was surprised that the book barely mentions the Maggiorie (sp?) homicide, while the website strongly suggests it was the work of EAR/ONS. At the same time, however, the book goes into detail about the teenager who was apparently shot by EAR/ONS, even though it's in the "Possibly Related" list. But I'm sure Crompton has his reasons.

As to whether EAR/ONS would seem "normal" in everyday life, that's a good question. On the one hand you'd have to think someone with that much anger towards women would stick out. On the other hand, how else do you explain that from all of the tips that came in, he was never identified except that he didn't appear so disturbed to people who knew him?

One other thing - I read on one website that EAR/ONS was believed to have been at one of the public forums about him, because a man stood up and ridiculed the other men there for letting their wives be raped in their own homes like that... and not long after, that same man's wife became one of the victims. There is no mention of this in the book, does anyone know if that's true?

[Arnold_OldSchool]

One other thing - I read on one website that EAR/ONS was believed to have been at one of the public forums about him, because a man stood up and ridiculed the other men there for letting their wives be raped in their own homes like that... and not long after, that same man's wife became one of the victims. There is no mention of this in the book, does anyone know if that's true?

It was mentioned on E!'s special w/ Crompton for sure

[nohwheregirl]

Hey everybody,
Truecrimediary.com has an audio interview with the author/investigator Larry Crompton. (http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=podcast)

I have not read the book, but I thought it was a really interesting interview. She asked if he thought the crying and "mommy mommy!" stuff was real or a game, and he thought that it was a ruse: the EAR-ONS was totally in control and all of that stuff was planned.

He also talks about how once he targeted a victim, he compulsively followed through. He gave an example of how he targeted a victim at a particular house, got sidetracked and attacked a teenage girl who was babysitting at a house next door (she wouldn't normally be around), but then went back and attacked the original intended victim.

Crompton also said that he is "very very optimistic" that this case will be solved. Woah. Obviously, he knows some stuff about the current investigation that we don't, and he thinks that they are getting very close.

[Truth Sleuth]

I sure hope they're on the verge of capturing him. It just bothers me that he's never been caught.

[Arnold_OldSchool]

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/6205612/img/Picture-Box/COMPilation.jpg

[WishfulDreamer]

One case had a woman see a masked man walking/prowling while she is stopped at a intersection at like 2 am. She looks one way to check for traffic, when she turns back EAR is TAPPING ON HER CAR WINDOW WITH A KNIFE! She roared off and EAR gave chase briefly w/ a bike.



That just taught me a lesson about looking on here while procrastinating!!!! :eek: Tapping on the window is one thing but chasing her down on a bike?! Holy moly, I would have had a heart attack! These composites are also terrifying.

[nohwheregirl]

Thanks a lot for those composite sketches, Arnold OldSchool. I will have nightmares tonight. :(

It's amazing how different they all look. WHO THE HECK IS THIS GUY?

[Orange_Sody_84]

Ewww! :/ this guy is totally creepy!!! Nowheregirl I'm right there with you. :/ I got creeped out looking thru this thread.

They prolly look different because every witness sees things differently. hindsight and all that jazz.

[Charlie99909]

Holy cow! That's some really in depth info I never heard while reading about EAR.

[Zlatko]

For those interested, the San Jose Mercury News has an article in regards to the EAR. One of the victims discusses her memories. She's certainly a strong person.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_18496431

[WishfulDreamer]

For those interested, the San Jose Mercury News has an article in regards to the EAR. One of the victims discusses her memories. She's certainly a strong person.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_18496431

That you for the article. "Missy" sounds like an incredibly strong woman. Just 13 and having to endure something so brutal? I'm glad that she has a family now and had such strong community support.

I'm wondering a few things about EAR after reading this thread.
1) Could he possibly have been motivated by his small genital size to want such domination? Maybe someone mocked him and he got angry and wanted to punish women (then later, men).
2) He didn't use condoms (I presume) if they got all the DNA evidence. This may be a silly question, but anyone wondering about possible STDs he could have contracted/passed along after attacking so many people? I'm sure that would have been noted by investigators and they would have tried to sift through medical records of people in the area with said disease though.

[Zlatko]

That you for the article. "Missy" sounds like an incredibly strong woman. Just 13 and having to endure something so brutal? I'm glad that she has a family now and had such strong community support.

I'm wondering a few things about EAR after reading this thread.
1) Could he possibly have been motivated by his small genital size to want such domination? Maybe someone mocked him and he got angry and wanted to punish women (then later, men).
2) He didn't use condoms (I presume) if they got all the DNA evidence. This may be a silly question, but anyone wondering about possible STDs he could have contracted/passed along after attacking so many people? I'm sure that would have been noted by investigators and they would have tried to sift through medical records of people in the area with said disease though.
1 - Yes, there is a good chance that the EAR, well, suffered from a size complex. If my memory is correct, some investigators suggested that he was possibly mocked by girls in his youth for his small genitals. Perhaps he was about to get intimate with some girl and ended up being laughed at. Although, I've also heard some suggest that he suffered from 'mommy issues.' I do think he probably enjoyed showing his dominance to both female and male alike. By that, I mean he liked terrorizing the husband by raping the wife.

2- So far from all I've learned about the EAR, the subject of STDs hasn't come up. The investigators certainly should look into it.

[soundandvision]

As I do every so often, typically on weekends while watching the kids, I peruse the web looking for new info on EAR/ONS. This weekend I came across a rather interesting tidbit. It appears there is an independent film being made about the life (and death) of EAR/ONS last known victim, Janelle Cruz.

More information can be found here: Bird with a Broken Wing (http://www.dreadcentral.com/news/46588/two-teaser-trailers-bird-broken-wing)

The teaser trailer (showing actual home movies) really does humanize Ms. Cruz in a way that truly touched me. I'm not sure if this film will get any kind of film festival release or if it's straight to DVD or what. Hard to tell. {edit: it appears that the director is seeking financing}

Inspired by finding this bit of news, I went looking for something on the web (anything really) about the Janelle Cruz homicide. And found this (http://community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?as=119137&w=278284&d=562865).

Perhaps the most compelling account I came across in the old forums was [allegedly] posted by the boyfriend of Janelle Cruz at the time of her death.

His post reported of an encounter with Janelle at a neighborhood pool approximately a week before death. He wrote of the presence of another man at the swimming pool whose gaze upon Janelle had a "sexually predatory" manner about it, and how the man offered to drop by her home to show her some kittens for the purpose of her possibly adopting them.

If this account is correct, the probability is good that the "kitten man" was EAR-ONS.

Now, it would seem that the filmmaker behind Bird With A Broken Wing had intimate access to the footage used for the teaser trailer. So perhaps he knows of the person that is behind the information from the above quote or would have access to her family and be able to deduce who was close to her and may have witnessed this incident.

Two things I have read in the last year that really piqued my interest back into this case:

1. A law enforcement official (I think from Contra Costa) said they were looking into the possibility of the common link to many of the early rapes was one of the local hospitals. That some of the victims had worked/stayed or knew of someone that worked/stayed there. Something like that, I probably don't have my facts 100% on that.

2. This tidbit about the man that was ogling Ms. Cruz by the pool in her neighborhood shortly before her murder.

This case is solvable. Now, whether or not EAR/ONS is dead or not, who knows. But, someone out there holds the key to this.

[Truth Sleuth]

Last night, by accident, I found the UM segment on EAR/ONS on YouTube. I had tried looking for it in the past but no one had it uploaded with the name "Original Night Stalker", it's listed only as "Serial Rapist/Murderer." For the record, it had a recreation of the public meeting where the man criticized the husbands who didn't try to stop EAR/ONS.

Also one thing that caught my attention - they showed EAR/ONS walking on the second floor of a home on the outside, i.e. walking on the roof over a porch or deck. Did he actually do this? I thought he always got in through windows or doors at ground level.

[soundandvision]

Last night, by accident, I found the UM segment on EAR/ONS on YouTube. I had tried looking for it in the past but no one had it uploaded with the name "Original Night Stalker", it's listed only as "Serial Rapist/Murderer." For the record, it had a recreation of the public meeting where the man criticized the husbands who didn't try to stop EAR/ONS.

Also one thing that caught my attention - they showed EAR/ONS walking on the second floor of a home on the outside, i.e. walking on the roof over a porch or deck. Did he actually do this? I thought he always got in through windows or doors at ground level.

Thanks much for the tip that the UM segment has been upped to YT. I had *never* seen it and always wanted to. The Cold Case Files & THS Investigates episodes are absolutely chilling true crime, at its finest.

[XCalibur]

I've always found this case fascinating.

But one thing thats always puzzled me is that no crimes DNA wise have been linked to EAR after 1986. Guys like that usually don't stop. However, he was reported to have made threatening phone calls to women in the early
90's.

What I wonder is if EAR's DNA profile has ever been entered into the national database? Because this would be a way of finding out if he left California, if you could link other crimes to him in other parts of the country it might be a way of finding out if the crimes stopped because he moved.

I think its important that this guy is identified and if still alive caught, even though he has to be in his late 50's or early 60's.

[soundandvision]

I've always found this case fascinating.

But one thing thats always puzzled me is that no crimes DNA wise have been linked to EAR after 1986. Guys like that usually don't stop. However, he was reported to have made threatening phone calls to women in the early
90's.

I've heard that too and those reports are pretty credible since they came from previous victims. I'm not entirely sure but I think the audio recording used in the Cold Case Files episode is actually from such a call from the early 1990's.

What I wonder is if EAR's DNA profile has ever been entered into the national database? Because this would be a way of finding out if he left California, if you could link other crimes to him in other parts of the country it might be a way of finding out if the crimes stopped because he moved.

I obviously have no direct insight on this but I strongly assume that Larry Pool and the other authorities have made sure the DNA string is in CODIS. And it probably routinely gets re-run against the national database. Again, one would assume.


I think its important that this guy is identified and if still alive caught, even though he has to be in his late 50's or early 60's.

Absolutely. In 1976, he was described as between 19 and 28 years of age. For grins, let's assume (if he was also the Visalia Ransacker, and I think he was) that he started acting out around the age of 18 or 19 in 1974 as the VR, that would put his age closer to mid-50's. Relatively young still, by contemporary standards anyway.

The common thought for a long time seemed to be that he died after the murder of Ms. Cruz in 1986 or was in prison for a totally unrelated crime (a crime where DNA extraction wouldn't make sense, for authorities..burglary perhaps). However, when you think about it, his silence makes deafening sense, upon re-examination. Between 1981 and 1986 he was totally dormant, or so authorities think. Then in 1986 he murders Janelle Cruz and suddenly stops completely. The period of halting his activity between Domingo/Sanchez and then Cruz is the key. What happened in his life? Marriage? Kids? Was Cruz one last murder for old times sake; his perfection of what he wanted the crime to be?

Both Gary Ridgway (Green River Killer) and Dennis Radar (BTK Killer) ceased activity for a number of years before resuming their activities. Both men were married with children I believe. In Radar's case he couldn't help himself from reliving his crimes by taunting police. In the case of EAR/ONS, I wonder if perhaps the advances in science and more awareness of his crimes caused him to halt abruptly after 1986. With only the taunting calls from the early 90's to help relive the terror. These are all things that I think make sense, who knows if they are true or not.

What I believe in my core though is this. He's still out there in suburbia, living as a someone's next door neighbor. And I think this case will eventually be solved the more minute details are brought out with time. Or maybe a wife will stumble across her husbands secret stash of mementos from the crime scenes (a box of drivers licenses of women, something like that).

[Zlatko]

What I believe in my core though is this. He's still out there in suburbia, living as a someone's next door neighbor. And I think this case will eventually be solved the more minute details are brought out with time. Or maybe a wife will stumble across her husbands secret stash of mementos from the crime scenes (a box of drivers licenses of women, something like that).This is what makes the EAR creepy. No one really knows what happened to the guy. He could be deceased or possibly living in some isolated town in Northern California. The possibilities are endless. What I also wonder is if anyone close to him know his secrets. Possibly a wife, parents, or children.

It's eerie to think the guy could be one's run-of-the-mill neighbor as well. For some reason, I think he'd seem like a normal guy in person.

[Orange_Sody_84]

It physically creeps me out and makes me ill to think this guy is most likely still alive. is prolly someone's friend or neighbor. maybe married with kids. and no one would have any idea. :/ I mean could you guys imagine?? I hope someday this case is solved.

[XCalibur]

It physically creeps me out and makes me ill to think this guy is most likely still alive. is prolly someone's friend or neighbor. maybe married with kids. and no one would have any idea. :/ I mean could you guys imagine?? I hope someday this case is solved.

Interestingly, there is a theory that the EAR may have stopped because he was married and simply couldn't go out at night without being noticed anymore. This was bolstered by the fact that supposedly during one of his threatening phone calls a woman and children could be heard in the background.

Although I think thats a stretch that that alone proves he has one. He could have been in a public place at a phone booth, or even at a friends house.

Still its an interesting theory.

Still, whats so dangerous about this guy is that he clearly IMO had the mental capacity to change his MO. Several times during his reign from 1976-1986 he started doing things differently to throw off law enforcement.

For all we know, this guy could have been luring women into his home and killing them, or perhaps even hiding bodies of women he rapes and kills, hence no DNA surfacing. He might not have stopped killing, but may have merely stopped home invasions and started stalking women elsewhere. Its a scary thought for sure.

On the other hand, he may have mellowed out and become a born again Christian. Who knows? But either way, he definitely must be identified and caught, he has roamed way to long. If he is still alive that is.

[WishfulDreamer]

With his attitude toward women, I have to wonder if he would be able to sustain a marriage, especially enough to respect his wife and stop. Then again, several of these serial killers have been found to be married.

[NellieBlyArmy]

With his attitude toward women, I have to wonder if he would be able to sustain a marriage,

I was thinking about this, and I think casual misogyny is so common that yeah, he could probably get away with it. I work in a DV shelter and I can assure you, the men who beat these women are generally pretty popular guys. I've seen women's own mothers side with the abuser. I've seen whole communities come together to hide the abuser so he can't get served with a restraining order. Think that town in Texas who called that 11 year old girl who got gang-raped a "slut" and cried police injustice when the rapists got arrested. I bet pretty much anyone can think of some really awful stuff men they know have done to or said about women, guys you may otherwise like. The sheer number of rape jokes or "just get her drunk" jokes many people make is staggering.

Thinking in my own life, I know a guy who heard his ex (a next door neighbor) getting beaten by her current boyfriend and told the story like it was a joke, a guy who thinks "ugly" women should be grateful for sexual harassment who also broke into his ex's apartment to steal back a present he bought her 8 months before they broke up, and a guy who held a female friend of mine against a wall because she turned him down for a date. I can think of plenty of other stuff, but it would turn into a novel. These guys all have friends, long-term relationships, etc. They're not piriahs or considered generally "bad," just guys who maybe get carried away, or were hurt by a woman and therefore bitter so it makes sense that they'd be that angry. Hell, just look at this thread - there is a ton of "He's probably raping ladies because some woman made fun of his wang when he was young," which is so ridiculous as to not be funny. I mean, obviously being mocked doesn't actually turn you into a serial rapist (even if it is a woman who does the mocking) but an actual cop is floating that theory.

Seeing this type of behavior makes people uncomfortable, yeah, but we're all pretty well socialized not to rock the boat and to give people the benefit of the doubt. Misogynists, racists, homophobes - they get away with a TON in day-to-day life when you think about it. So yeah, I have no doubt that his hatred of women won't prevent him from having friends and lovers, and I am positive that alone wouldn't inspire someone to suggest his name to the cops.

[Orange_Sody_84]

That's how our Society views things. "It's none of my business." "Just ignore it." augh... it's no wonder people end up getting murdered or in abusive relationships. :/ it makes me sick.

[Zlatko]

I was thinking about this, and I think casual misogyny is so common that yeah, he could probably get away with it. I work in a DV shelter and I can assure you, the men who beat these women are generally pretty popular guys. I've seen women's own mothers side with the abuser. I've seen whole communities come together to hide the abuser so he can't get served with a restraining order. Think that town in Texas who called that 11 year old girl who got gang-raped a "slut" and cried police injustice when the rapists got arrested. I bet pretty much anyone can think of some really awful stuff men they know have done to or said about women, guys you may otherwise like. The sheer number of rape jokes or "just get her drunk" jokes many people make is staggering.

Thinking in my own life, I know a guy who heard his ex (a next door neighbor) getting beaten by her current boyfriend and told the story like it was a joke, a guy who thinks "ugly" women should be grateful for sexual harassment who also broke into his ex's apartment to steal back a present he bought her 8 months before they broke up, and a guy who held a female friend of mine against a wall because she turned him down for a date. I can think of plenty of other stuff, but it would turn into a novel. These guys all have friends, long-term relationships, etc. They're not piriahs or considered generally "bad," just guys who maybe get carried away, or were hurt by a woman and therefore bitter so it makes sense that they'd be that angry. Hell, just look at this thread - there is a ton of "He's probably raping ladies because some woman made fun of his wang when he was young," which is so ridiculous as to not be funny. I mean, obviously being mocked doesn't actually turn you into a serial rapist (even if it is a woman who does the mocking) but an actual cop is floating that theory.

Seeing this type of behavior makes people uncomfortable, yeah, but we're all pretty well socialized not to rock the boat and to give people the benefit of the doubt. Misogynists, racists, homophobes - they get away with a TON in day-to-day life when you think about it. So yeah, I have no doubt that his hatred of women won't prevent him from having friends and lovers, and I am positive that alone wouldn't inspire someone to suggest his name to the cops.IMO, 'misogynist' doesn't even describe the East Area Rapist. He was a full blown woman hater to the extreme. The amount of women he raped is simply sickening. I have a hard time believing this nutjob could even ask a woman out on a date. Though, he's probably seems normal to his guy friends.

If he ever did have a girlfriend or wife, I would think they would take notice of his strange behavior towards women.

[WishfulDreamer]

I agree with you NellieBlyArmy. I just want to clarify, though, that when I mentioned the theory that he may have started this behavior because of his small penis, I meant it seriously. I think being mocked by women (or even other men, such as in a locker room situation) perhaps caused a great seed of anger and rage, and the desire to hurt and be dominant. But I also believe this- if it is true- would not have been the only reason.

[NellieBlyArmy]

I just want to clarify, though, that when I mentioned the theory that he may have started this behavior because of his small penis, I meant it seriously. I think being mocked by women (or even other men, such as in a locker room situation) perhaps caused a great seed of anger and rage, and the desire to hurt and be dominant. But I also believe this- if it is true- would not have been the only reason.

For the record, your post didn't bug me. I was more squicked by Zlatko's description of some investigators' theory (not Zlatko personally) - that a specific girl laughed at him during a sexual encounter and that set him off. Sorry I wasn't all that clear about that.

That said, I do agree that he could have issues with his penis (it sounds pretty indisputable that it was small), and I appreciate you adding that it could've been a locker room situation. The idea that he was massively insecure about his worth as a man, attached that to penis size, and decided to use violence to feel better makes sense to me.

[Zlatko]

I didn't think about it until now but it's worth pointing out that penis size is much more of a male obsession. What I mean to say is I doubt penis size is a topic of discussion for women. Men, on the other hand, tend to obsess over it. So, it seems less likely that a woman would point out his inadequacy. Though, it could be possible.

I think it's worth exploring if EAR had mother issues or something. Maybe he had a domineering mother and a father who didn't care for him.

[DolfanBlitz]

I posted this in another thread before seeing this one, but perhaps this is a more appropriate location:

So I was watching Dateline last Friday on the case of Gary Hilton. I noticed his piercing blue eyes at one point, and one of his older pictures showed pretty beefy thighs/legs for a shorter man like him. Any idea where Gary Hilton was in the 1970s and 1980s? Because he seems like a potential fit for the Original Night Stalker. The Dateline segment said he was 61, but spoke almost nothing of what Hilton was up to prior to working on a film circa 1995. The only reference they made was that Hilton was a conman who posed as raising funds for charities from 1973-1993 when he actually just pocketed any contributions he received.

[XCalibur]

I posted this in another thread before seeing this one, but perhaps this is a more appropriate location:

So I was watching Dateline last Friday on the case of Gary Hilton. I noticed his piercing blue eyes at one point, and one of his older pictures showed pretty beefy thighs/legs for a shorter man like him. Any idea where Gary Hilton was in the 1970s and 1980s? Because he seems like a potential fit for the Original Night Stalker. The Dateline segment said he was 61, but spoke almost nothing of what Hilton was up to prior to working on a film circa 1995. The only reference they made was that Hilton was a conman who posed as raising funds for charities from 1973-1993 when he actually just pocketed any contributions he received.

You may have to elaborate with a little more information to make a case for what makes you think its this guy. Con men are typically far different psychologically from serial killers and rapists.

[XCalibur]

I didn't think about it until now but it's worth pointing out that penis size is much more of a male obsession. What I mean to say is I doubt penis size is a topic of discussion for women. Men, on the other hand, tend to obsess over it. So, it seems less likely that a woman would point out his inadequacy. Though, it could be possible.

I think it's worth exploring if EAR had mother issues or something. Maybe he had a domineering mother and a father who didn't care for him.

I don't think its as prevalent, but there are very superficial women out there.

[nohwheregirl]

I was thinking about this, and I think casual misogyny is so common that yeah, he could probably get away with it. I work in a DV shelter and I can assure you, the men who beat these women are generally pretty popular guys. I've seen women's own mothers side with the abuser. I've seen whole communities come together to hide the abuser so he can't get served with a restraining order. Think that town in Texas who called that 11 year old girl who got gang-raped a "slut" and cried police injustice when the rapists got arrested. I bet pretty much anyone can think of some really awful stuff men they know have done to or said about women, guys you may otherwise like. The sheer number of rape jokes or "just get her drunk" jokes many people make is staggering.

Thinking in my own life, I know a guy who heard his ex (a next door neighbor) getting beaten by her current boyfriend and told the story like it was a joke, a guy who thinks "ugly" women should be grateful for sexual harassment who also broke into his ex's apartment to steal back a present he bought her 8 months before they broke up, and a guy who held a female friend of mine against a wall because she turned him down for a date. I can think of plenty of other stuff, but it would turn into a novel. These guys all have friends, long-term relationships, etc. They're not piriahs or considered generally "bad," just guys who maybe get carried away, or were hurt by a woman and therefore bitter so it makes sense that they'd be that angry. Hell, just look at this thread - there is a ton of "He's probably raping ladies because some woman made fun of his wang when he was young," which is so ridiculous as to not be funny. I mean, obviously being mocked doesn't actually turn you into a serial rapist (even if it is a woman who does the mocking) but an actual cop is floating that theory.

Seeing this type of behavior makes people uncomfortable, yeah, but we're all pretty well socialized not to rock the boat and to give people the benefit of the doubt. Misogynists, racists, homophobes - they get away with a TON in day-to-day life when you think about it. So yeah, I have no doubt that his hatred of women won't prevent him from having friends and lovers, and I am positive that alone wouldn't inspire someone to suggest his name to the cops.

Great post. Thank you. :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

I didn't think about it until now but it's worth pointing out that penis size is much more of a male obsession. What I mean to say is I doubt penis size is a topic of discussion for women. Men, on the other hand, tend to obsess over it. So, it seems less likely that a woman would point out his inadequacy. Though, it could be possible.

I think it's worth exploring if EAR had mother issues or something. Maybe he had a domineering mother and a father who didn't care for him.

Women may talk about it a little amongst themselves, but I'd be afraid I would be beaten or killed if I ever criticized a man's "size" to his face. I'm not exaggerating here. I think men tend to forget how truly vulnerable women are. I think this an overly simplistic explanation.

Also, the "domineering mother" thing is considered passe...not really something experts take seriously anymore, although it kinda hangs around as a theory. It's been used to explain everything from serial killers to homosexuality. It's one of those things where psychologists in the 1950s and 60s tended to blame everything on the mother. Well, psychology is an evolving field, and they got a lot wrong back then. Another overly simplistic explanation.

[XCalibur]

That's how our Society views things. "It's none of my business." "Just ignore it." augh... it's no wonder people end up getting murdered or in abusive relationships. :/ it makes me sick.

I think you are generalizing a bit. Not everyone in our society views it that way.

But in defense of those who do, I think there are some things to keep in mind. Many times women who are victims of domestic violence often bring some of it on themselves, by refusing to go to the police themselves or even defending their partner's actions, or lying for them.

So reporting actions of domestic violence can sometimes be tricky. Cause you never really know how an abused female is going to treat the situation, its entirely possible if you do report such a thing the victim may turn on you in defense of their partner. As sickening as that is it does happen.

The important thing to remember is, there is help out there for abused women, but ultimately its up to them to seek it. Because for those who refuse and want to tolerate these scumbags in their life, there is really only so much you can do, unless they are caught in the act by law enforcement. You might report something, the wife may deny the whole thing then all of the sudden you and YOUR credibility are attacked.

Now rape on the other hand, there is absoloutely no excuse to ignore that. But you have to be careful to if you witness it and make sure what you are witnessing is rape and not some form of kinky sex, or that can get you in trouble as well. Because there is little way of distorting rape, an unwilling sexual partner is an unwilling sexual partner.

[Zlatko]

Women may talk about it a little amongst themselves, but I'd be afraid I would be beaten or killed if I ever criticized a man's "size" to his face. I'm not exaggerating here. I think men tend to forget how truly vulnerable women are. I think this an overly simplistic explanation.

Also, the "domineering mother" thing is considered passe...not really something experts take seriously anymore, although it kinda hangs around as a theory. It's been used to explain everything from serial killers to homosexuality. It's one of those things where psychologists in the 1950s and 60s tended to blame everything on the mother. Well, psychology is an evolving field, and they got a lot wrong back then. Another overly simplistic explanation.Well, if a woman really wanted to shatter a man's self image, making fun of his unit would be the easiest way to do so. Strange as it may sound, men are often conscious of that part of their body as women can be conscious about their looks. Like I said, a lot of men obsess over it. It's possible the EAR was made aware of his 'inadequacy' by males as well. Sexual domination over women possibly made him feel more masculine, as warped as it may sound.

I don't think we could rule out the idea he had a domineering mother. But it's also possible he was rejected all together by both parents. Regardless, I think the EAR had at least one parent who wasn't exactly loving towards him.

[WishfulDreamer]

Oh, ok NellieBly, just wanted to be sure :)

I'm really sorry to hear of these things you've witnessed. It's sad that such behavior is so prevalent in our society. I haven't seen anything that extreme, but I've heard plenty of "just get her drunk" type of jokes that are NOT ok in my opinion. Or people who treat assault as something to make humor out of. Not cool.

So I do totally understand that this guy could be married and even if he is openly misogynistic in the ways you've described, hard to track down. It's just frightening to think about, but a very open possibility.

As a female I can't speak personally over phallic consciousness, but I understand the connection you're making to females being self-conscious about their looks, Zlatko. Sometimes parts of our bodies can make us ashamed or overly worried about others' opinions. If he was provoked by taunting, then it would be even more likely to lead to anger. If a woman taunted him or he was rejected by multiple women, perhaps that's why he decided to exercise force, a way to gain domination, and control. If any males taunted him, he certainly inflicted enough pain on men alone by torturing them with the plates trick and assaulting their wives and girlfriends. Maybe I'm going to far with the phallic angle, but I think he was definitely either taunted for that or simply rejected by others.

And I especially like the idea of parental issues being thrown out there. It seems very possible.