George Owens (Elderly man who vanished and his car found in the woods)

[Guardian]

Ok, after searching the site here and not really finding much in the way of discussion on this case I thought I would start a new thread with George's name actually in the title. With his name in the thread, perhaps it will be easier to find for anyone that might have new info on the case.

This case was about George Owens. He vansihed while trying to get to a bus station to pick up his wife. He apparently got some wrong directions and ended up over 100 miles from where he was supposed to be. A witness that spoke to him in a small store (a clerk that sold him ice cream and cigars) said he seemed disoriented.

Five days later his car was found out in the middle of the woods. A pile of sticks in the floor of the back seat and his cane propped up against the back fender of the car. He was never seen again.

A witness who lived near a road that lead to where George's car was found said they saw George's car followed by a truck going up that road around the time George disappeared. 15 minutes later the truck came back down the road alone (that road was the only way out of that area apparently).

While the obvious solution to this is that George, who was in his 80s at the time, probably had suffered a mild stroke and got confused and eventually ended up in the woods where he wandered off and likely perished, there are some red flags in this story that suggest foul play.

-The truck following George's car

-George's cane left at the side of the car (how far could he have wandered without a cane if he needed it to walk in the first place?)

-The fact that his body was not found. (again, how far could he have gotten in wooded terrain without his cane?)

I think the likely scenario is that he indeed had a stroke of some kind. He ended up in the wrong town due to bad directions given to him. At that point I think someone decided to either rob him, or just plain kill him (possible hate crime given the location and time period).

While the segment points out the sticks found in the car as some kind of evidence, I can't imagine what they would indicate. Apparently he had a habit of gathering fire wood when out and about. I think in his mental state at the time, he stopped and gathered some wood before he met with foul play. Making the sticks a moot point. However, they cannot be discounted completely as they were found in the car after George disappeared.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this case?

[Mastermind]

I think the likely scenario is that he indeed had a stroke of some kind. He ended up in the wrong town due to bad directions given to him. At that point I think someone decided to either rob him, or just plain kill him (possible hate crime given the location and time period).

Agreed.

One thing I might add is that it's possible his killer knew who he was and targeted him. Some white supremacist may have wanted to exact some retribution on a church going man.

George was pretty active in the local church community. Someone may have recognized him from services and church activities. George's disorientation may have provided a chance opportunity for the killer.

I wonder if there was anyone else in the shop that may have overheard the conversation between the cashier and George. Maybe this conversation gave the killer an easy opportunity.

[Guardian]

Interesting idea. I wonder just how much investigating the local police did in this case. It seemed in the segment that the clerk was geniunely upset that she didn't do more to help George, but there wasn't much from the police investigator they interviewed. Maybe just bad editing in the segment?

The car obviously is the most important piece of evidence as it is. I wonder if they even dusted it for prints. This case just frustrates me. i feel it is one that could have easily been solved at the time, but now after 25 years, probably not.

[Mastermind]

The car obviously is the most important piece of evidence as it is. I wonder if they even dusted it for prints. This case just frustrates me. i feel it is one that could have easily been solved at the time, but now after 25 years, probably not.

I'm not sure there would be any fingerprints on the car.
Once George went out of the car, he was easy pickings for an assailant.

I would imagine the killer wouldn;t have to have much contact with the car.

What there should be are tire tracks and quite possibly footprints. (depending on weather and time)

Considering that George Owens probably had to crawl without his cane, it's kind of puzzling there wasn't any drag marks or even a handprint in the dirt.

[alfiechat]

Here's a theory. People have mentioned the cane being left behind. Is it possible that George took a large stick with him to walk? If he had other sticks in his car, this might make sense if he was walking...

Just wanted to put that out there.

[Mastermind]

Here's a theory. People have mentioned the cane being left behind. Is it possible that George took a large stick with him to walk? If he had other sticks in his car, this might make sense if he was walking..

Interesting theory.

Nothing to prove or disprove it.

Even with the stick or cane I would question how much ground George could cover.

The terrain couldn't have been the best.
One fall could have been the end of him right then and there.

[Gelatinous Goo]

I mentioned that theory in an earlier thread about George not too long ago. He could have forgotten where his cane was and just used a "walking stick" that he found. Still, you wouldn't think he'd get too far from the car.

[Guardian]

I'm not sure there would be any fingerprints on the car.
Once George went out of the car, he was easy pickings for an assailant.

I would imagine the killer wouldn;t have to have much contact with the car.



I guess I had always assumed that he likely met with an assailant (or two) in town who were then the ones that drove the car out to where it was found. If I understand what you are saying, you suggest that the killer (or killers) might have followed him to the remote area. I suppose that is possible. I think that either way, they likely took George out of the area the car was found in. If the witness that saw the two vehicles go up the road and then the truck drive back alone within 15 minutes, that wouldn't be much time to hide a body.

If someone other than George drove his car, I would think it would be very possible for fingerprints to be left. Unless of course they were being extremely carefull. They would have had to touch at least the shifter and steering wheel and door handle. All of which could of course be wiped down and if not would be tough to get prints from these items anyway. But driving what I would expect to be at least some distance from the town, it seems possible they could have easily left a print or two.

Either way, it still seems the car is a very important piece of evidence. In fact, it is really the only known physical evidence. i would still like to know just how in depth the police investigation was.

But the segment on UM never said there was anything to suggest a struggle or violence of any kind. So it is very possible they never bothered conducting a criminal investigation at all.

[Guardian]

FYI, here is the missing persons report I found online

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3452dmtn.html

[Mastermind]

But the segment on UM never said there was anything to suggest a struggle or violence of any kind. So it is very possible they never bothered conducting a criminal investigation at all.

Given George's condition, I don't think his killer had to do much to coax him.

They could easily have said to him "hey will get you home to your wife, just leave your car there and I'll take car of everything".

[DJ_Foxx]

After watching this case again on the dvd, I'm starting to wonder if George was ever in the woods to begin with. Perhaps he was killed elsewhere and the killer(s) drove George's car up the trail, closely followed by an accomplice or two in the truck. The cane up against the car and the sticks in the car could have been something to throw the authorities off by giving the impression George had simply wandered off in the woods.

This case breaks my heart everytime I watch it. Especially because his wife passed away not ever knowing what happened to her husband:(

[The Dutchman]

Reading someone's earlier post, I think George Owens may have been killed by a White supremacist who stumbled into him, but not because they knew he was a local preacher. He was a preacher much closer to Nashville, and I doubt people in Lobelville knew much about a preacher from Nolensville/Nashville.

But to say it was race related it possible, and that truck that was witnessed going in and coming out is just a bit too suspicious, especially out in the woods. A lot of things can happen in the woods that no one ever sees.

However, the sticks in the car is just a bit too much of a coincidence, had the killers put the sticks in there. George gather sticks at home, and that points more to George not meeting with foul play. Or, he did meet with foul play, was injured even more than he already was (since he'd been disoriented), and wandered off to perish.

George was already in his mid-80s when he vanished, which would put him between 100 and 110 today. Even if he had survived whatever he went through, it's unlikely he's alive today. If he'd been in his 40s or 50s, it would be a different story.

[MegtheEgg86]

Reading someone's earlier post, I think George Owens may have been killed by a White supremacist who stumbled into him, but not because they knew he was a local preacher. He was a preacher much closer to Nashville, and I doubt people in Lobelville knew much about a preacher from Nolensville/Nashville.

But to say it was race related it possible, and that truck that was witnessed going in and coming out is just a bit too suspicious, especially out in the woods. A lot of things can happen in the woods that no one ever sees.

:confused:

I have no idea where anyone is deriving the possibility of Mr. Owens' disappearance being the result of a hate crime aside from the fact that he is black.

Yes, racially motivated crimes occur in the South--just as they occur in the Midwest, Atlantic Seaboard, Northeast, West, and Southwest. That is the only other conclusion I am drawing from what you seem to be suggesting. Am I correct about that--that you believe (after he literally blew into Lobelville, unanticipated), a random white supremacist or two decided to target him either BEFORE he even went up the logging trail (meaning that he would've had to have been followed or lured) or after they unexpectedly stumbled upon him in the woods?


I beg your pardon, but that seems rather far-fetched to me. To me, the case has all the marks of a man simply (and unfortunately) suffering from a degenerative mental condition due to age and little else.


I'm reminded of the saying, "When you hear hooves, think horses--not zebras."

[Gelatinous Goo]

To further what Meg brings to the table, I'd hope that even white supremacists could come up with something better than harming an enfeebled black man. At worst, I could see a case of non-racially motivated robbery being the cause of Mr. Owens' demise.

I really appreciate how this case has affected so many forum members. Who of us wouldn't have enjoyed having a cup of coffee with someone like George Owens? From all accounts he was an uncommonly good person.

[The Dutchman]

In reply to MegtheEgg86's comments: I hear you on it possibly being far-fetched that a white supremacist killed George Owens. As you pointed out, George wasn't planning on going to Lobelville. It was the mid-1980s when George disappeared occurred, not 30 years prior, so it seems slightly implausible some white supremacists were involved.

But if someone did kill him or harm him in any way, that person must be extremely amoral (hence the white supremacist idea). But as I think back to the teenage boys in Texas who senselessly murdered and tortured all those people (including the elderly, and people of multiple races), some murderers just kill/torture without a motive. George Owens didn't seem capable of hurting a fly or causing any trouble. However, there is the possibility the truck that went down that road and came back had nothing to do with George's disappearance, and the sticks in the car point to that.

George Owens does seem like someone I would have enjoyed talking to, and it's sad his wife never knew what happened to him. I wonder if the brother is still living today (and if he has passed away, it's too bad he never found out what happened to his brother).

As with the Keith Reinhard case, I find it amazing that no remains were ever turned up after a period of 25 years. Some of the people on UM have quite literally vanished like Jimmy Hoffa.

[sdb4884]

I'm certain he put the sticks in his car and probably left his cane against the car. I mean who else who do that and just leave the car like that. Sadly I think he just wandered off into the woods and died in the forest somewhere.

[Guardian]

Even if the police only gave it a half assed search, what are the chances his body wouldn't have been found if he simply wandered off? This was an elderly man who already had trouble walking (hence the cane) and yet in a disoriented state and without his cane, he wandered so far off into the woods on what I would assume to be very uneven terrain, that nobody ever finds him?

I suppose thats possible, but it just seems unlikely. Unless of course you go with a very poor search being conducted.

It seems more likely to me that the truck following George's car down the road is a very important clue in this case. I could be wrong, but the segment in UM seemed to indicate that the road really didn't lead anywhere other than the wooded area where the car was later found. If that assumtion is correct, then you put that together with the truck following him, then coming back by itself within 15 minutes, suddenly foul play seems more likely.

The wood gathered in the back of the car is interesting, and I will concede is likely an important clue, but it may also have nothing to do with the case at all.

I would suggest this: George has a mild stroke that day and ends up lost in the town. He meets up with one or likely two people who decide to take advantage of his confused state and plans to rob rob him (maybe hate crime, maybe not). While talking to these people George mentions something about wanting to gather wood. Seeing an opportunity to isolate him and do whatever they planned to do, these people tell him they know a great place to gather fire wood. One of these people goes in George's car, the other follows in his own truck. Once in the wooded area, one goes with him to gather wood to distract him, while the other goes through the car. They may have thought he had more money on him so they didn't kill him right away. Once they were finished searching the car, George and one of the perps come back to the car and put the wood inside. At this point the incident may have gotten violent. Now to cover their tracks the perps put George (alive or dead at this point) into the truck with them and drive off leaving the car where it was in order to give the illusion of an old man wandering off into the woods. They later dispose of him somewhere that he has obviously not been found in and given that there was nothing leading directly back to them, these people got away with it.

Like it or not, that scenario fits everything that is known (to us armchair detectives that is) about the case.

[mozartpc27]

Even if the police only gave it a half assed search, what are the chances his body wouldn't have been found if he simply wandered off? This was an elderly man who already had trouble walking (hence the cane) and yet in a disoriented state and without his cane, he wandered so far off into the woods on what I would assume to be very uneven terrain, that nobody ever finds him?

I suppose thats possible, but it just seems unlikely. Unless of course you go with a very poor search being conducted.

It seems more likely to me that the truck following George's car down the road is a very important clue in this case. I could be wrong, but the segment in UM seemed to indicate that the road really didn't lead anywhere other than the wooded area where the car was later found. If that assumtion is correct, then you put that together with the truck following him, then coming back by itself within 15 minutes, suddenly foul play seems more likely.

The wood gathered in the back of the car is interesting, and I will concede is likely an important clue, but it may also have nothing to do with the case at all.

I would suggest this: George has a mild stroke that day and ends up lost in the town. He meets up with one or likely two people who decide to take advantage of his confused state and plans to rob rob him (maybe hate crime, maybe not). While talking to these people George mentions something about wanting to gather wood. Seeing an opportunity to isolate him and do whatever they planned to do, these people tell him they know a great place to gather fire wood. One of these people goes in George's car, the other follows in his own truck. Once in the wooded area, one goes with him to gather wood to distract him, while the other goes through the car. They may have thought he had more money on him so they didn't kill him right away. Once they were finished searching the car, George and one of the perps come back to the car and put the wood inside. At this point the incident may have gotten violent. Now to cover their tracks the perps put George (alive or dead at this point) into the truck with them and drive off leaving the car where it was in order to give the illusion of an old man wandering off into the woods. They later dispose of him somewhere that he has obviously not been found in and given that there was nothing leading directly back to them, these people got away with it.

Like it or not, that scenario fits everything that is known (to us armchair detectives that is) about the case.

Not a bad scenario. The problem with this case is that there just isn't enough to go on. That, and it's too sad for words.

[honeygirl7846]

I was traveling west on Interstate 40 in Tennessee last month and came across an exit sign for Lobelville and immediately thought of Mr. Owens. This was the small town he was directed to by mistake and also the place he stopped and bought ice cream and cigars. I was so affected seeing the sign; I wish now I had stopped and driven through the town. It really amazes me how some UM cases can a get a person so emotionally involved. This and the Wendy Camp case are the top two on my list.

[Oldschooler81]

It seems more likely to me that the truck following George's car down the road is a very important clue in this case. I could be wrong, but the segment in UM seemed to indicate that the road really didn't lead anywhere other than the wooded area where the car was later found. If that assumtion is correct, then you put that together with the truck following him, then coming back by itself within 15 minutes, suddenly foul play seems more likely.

The wood gathered in the back of the car is interesting, and I will concede is likely an important clue, but it may also have nothing to do with the case at all.

I would suggest this: George has a mild stroke that day and ends up lost in the town. He meets up with one or likely two people who decide to take advantage of his confused state and plans to rob rob him (maybe hate crime, maybe not). While talking to these people George mentions something about wanting to gather wood. Seeing an opportunity to isolate him and do whatever they planned to do, these people tell him they know a great place to gather fire wood. One of these people goes in George's car, the other follows in his own truck. Once in the wooded area, one goes with him to gather wood to distract him, while the other goes through the car. They may have thought he had more money on him so they didn't kill him right away. Once they were finished searching the car, George and one of the perps come back to the car and put the wood inside. At this point the incident may have gotten violent. Now to cover their tracks the perps put George (alive or dead at this point) into the truck with them and drive off leaving the car where it was in order to give the illusion of an old man wandering off into the woods. They later dispose of him somewhere that he has obviously not been found in and given that there was nothing leading directly back to them, these people got away with it.

Like it or not, that scenario fits everything that is known (to us armchair detectives that is) about the case.

Good analysis. I admit as heartbreaking as that is, it does go hand in hand with the clues. It does seem pretty rare something like this would happen in a little rural town (it's not like we're talking about downtown DC or New York City), although as you said, it could've been some rednecks just looking for an easy person to rob or something.

BTW, I don't know if anyone pointed this out before, but...George didn't get to Lobelville until July 23rd, which is the day AFTER he was supposed to pick his wife up at the bus station (also a day after the gas station attendant saw him on the 22nd).

We can probably assume he didn't stay in a motel and that seems an awfully long time to drive just 60 miles. Do you think he ended up in some other place before making it there? That adds even more credence to him suffering a stroke. I do believe most likely that's why he never made it to the bus station and got so lost in the first place.

[Oldschooler81]

I also just commented on the case online where some guy insulted me lol, but he did say something I believe that could be a motive. George had a gold watch and that could've made him an easy target for robbers (obviously even easier if he was disoriented).

[cocytus]

Even if the police only gave it a half assed search, what are the chances his body wouldn't have been found if he simply wandered off? This was an elderly man who already had trouble walking (hence the cane) and yet in a disoriented state and without his cane, he wandered so far off into the woods on what I would assume to be very uneven terrain, that nobody ever finds him?

I suppose thats possible, but it just seems unlikely. Unless of course you go with a very poor search being conducted.

It seems more likely to me that the truck following George's car down the road is a very important clue in this case. I could be wrong, but the segment in UM seemed to indicate that the road really didn't lead anywhere other than the wooded area where the car was later found. If that assumtion is correct, then you put that together with the truck following him, then coming back by itself within 15 minutes, suddenly foul play seems more likely.

The wood gathered in the back of the car is interesting, and I will concede is likely an important clue, but it may also have nothing to do with the case at all.

I would suggest this: George has a mild stroke that day and ends up lost in the town. He meets up with one or likely two people who decide to take advantage of his confused state and plans to rob rob him (maybe hate crime, maybe not). While talking to these people George mentions something about wanting to gather wood. Seeing an opportunity to isolate him and do whatever they planned to do, these people tell him they know a great place to gather fire wood. One of these people goes in George's car, the other follows in his own truck. Once in the wooded area, one goes with him to gather wood to distract him, while the other goes through the car. They may have thought he had more money on him so they didn't kill him right away. Once they were finished searching the car, George and one of the perps come back to the car and put the wood inside. At this point the incident may have gotten violent. Now to cover their tracks the perps put George (alive or dead at this point) into the truck with them and drive off leaving the car where it was in order to give the illusion of an old man wandering off into the woods. They later dispose of him somewhere that he has obviously not been found in and given that there was nothing leading directly back to them, these people got away with it.

Like it or not, that scenario fits everything that is known (to us armchair detectives that is) about the case.

The chances are quite good that even a detailed search wouldn't have discovered his remains. He wasn't a large man and animals could have predated upon his remains and scattered the bones. He did disappear in a heavily wooded area so there would likely be a number of critters in the area.

I have to agree w/ the poster that supported this being the unfortunate case of an elderly man becoming lost in the woods and dying of either thirst,exposure or illness.

[sdb4884]

Probably was taken up the hill as an occupant rather than the driver.

[cocytus]

Probably was taken up the hill as an occupant rather than the driver.

There's no evidence that was the case. In fact, most of the evidence points towards him being alone as the reason he that ended up in the area that he did. Had Mr. Owen's had a companion while driving, this story never would have occurred, IMHO.

[sdb4884]

There's no evidence that was the case. In fact, most of the evidence points towards him being alone as the reason he that ended up in the area that he did. Had Mr. Owen's had a companion while driving, this story never would have occurred, IMHO.


Oh yeah I forgot about the sticks against his car, and the cane too. The wandering woods theory is probably the correct one.

[TheCars1986]

Oh yeah I forgot about the sticks against his car, and the cane too. The wandering woods theory is probably the correct one.

This was always the saddest UM segment for me to watch. Especially when the woman who worked at the store started to tear up when she says she should have reached out in some way to help George. But I kind of on the fence about how much of a mystery this is. The guy was in his 80's if I remember correctly, and by all accounts seemed disoriented. He probably suffered a stroke and forgot where he was. The sticks in his abandoned car rule out foul play to me, why would an assailant steal his car and fill it with a bunch of sticks just to abandon it? Unless someone planned on burning the vehicle but was interrupted somehow. In all likelihood he drove his car and left it there in a disoriented state and died in the wilderness somewhere. But George certainly would have appealed to someone who was looking to rob somebody. He was elderly, disoriented, and seemed to be well off (his gold watch and the pristine condition of his car suggest this).