How would you have prevented a murder/disappearance?

[Clockworkhigh]

Michaela Galbrecht - Follow Michaela to the store watch her scooter. Have a notepad and a pencil with me. Watch the abductor pick her up and follow him. Write his licence plate down because once he catches wind of someone following him I would assume that he'd do whatever speed necessary to get away. Or I'd park my car parellel in the exit to the driveway and then jump the car praying he does not have a gun

Angela Hammond - I would have waited in an adjacent parking lot for the abductor to make his move. It would be too easy to take a bat and hit him in the parking lot before he did anything. Then I would be charged and a potential abductor would still be at large and would likely have sympathy. I'd have a full tank of gas in my car and I would somehow transport a cell phone from 2010 in my hand

Wendy Camp - I'd hide in the trunk of the Noe's car. If there was a mafia killing I'd be powerless and would just act as an eyewitness for later but if Beverly, Ida and Chad were the only ones doing the abducting I am pretty sure I would be able to overpower Chad and would worry about a 50 and 70 year old woman later

Larry/Tommy Gibson - I'd hide in a tree and watch Tommy from above. I'd see Larry go jogging and I'd knock on his door with Debra answering telling her that her son was crossing the street and I almost hit him, leaving Tommy safe inside the house, the cat on the other hand.............well who even likes cats anyways? :lol:

Jeffrey MacDonald - Without anyone else knowing I would sleepover at their house in a seperate bedroom. There were no guns used so I have a trusty handgun with me. If the hippy story is true I fire as soon as the acid comment starts. If Jeffrey's story is a lie I'd shoot him in the leg before he'd kill anyone

Amy Billig - I'd follow her from her house to the restaurant she was supposed to go for lunch. End of story.

Eric and Pam Ellender - They wouldn't know it, but I'd be lying awake in the livig room waiting for the cult freaks to show up. Bang, bang, bang game over and they'd have a shotgun so the self defense theory would cover me

[zack007attack]

Tara Calico-drive along the road she took her bike across, keep my distance, when I saw her get in trouble by someone in a vehicle I would speed up to them, get their license number, then aid Tara any way I could. If she was ran over, I would come to her aid. If she was forced into a vehicle, I would follow closely. I would also have a handgun ready but only use it if she was about to be murdered.

Tammy Lynn Leppert-wait at the bank she was dropped off at, then watch her next actions.

Blind River Rest Stop murders-hide at the rest stop, get a license number of the BG's vehicle.

Nick Markowitz-follow Jesse James Hollywood's van, call the police immediately after they made a stop on their trip.

Dick Hansen-If I were Dick or his female friend, I would have driven to the police station immediately after finding out the killer was following us.

[bell83]

Angela Hammond - I would have waited in an adjacent parking lot for the abductor to make his move. It would be too easy to take a bat and hit him in the parking lot before he did anything. Then I would be charged and a potential abductor would still be at large and would likely have sympathy. I'd have a full tank of gas in my car and I would somehow transport a cell phone from 2010 in my hand

All well and good...but you'd better transport a cell tower or two, as well :)

[mattc]

I often wonder how I might have prevented being a victim if I had been in the same situations as some of the people profiled. As someone who watches way to many UM segments, I often wonder what I would do if I got into my car and someone was in there or if someone put a gun to me and told me to come with them.

This is a good discussion because we can all try and learn from the tragedies that befell a lot of these victims. Any thoughts? I would like to think that, no matter what, I would not drive my car if someone demanded that I do so, even if they had a gun. Frankly, Id rather be shot on the spot then endure the incredible terror that some of these people had to face. And perhaps if you try to escape immediately, they will lose the courage to shoot you?

[Hambone2421]

Michaela Galbrecht - Follow Michaela to the store watch her scooter. Have a notepad and a pencil with me. Watch the abductor pick her up and follow him. Write his licence plate down because once he catches wind of someone following him I would assume that he'd do whatever speed necessary to get away. Or I'd park my car parellel in the exit to the driveway and then jump the car praying he does not have a gun

Angela Hammond - I would have waited in an adjacent parking lot for the abductor to make his move. It would be too easy to take a bat and hit him in the parking lot before he did anything. Then I would be charged and a potential abductor would still be at large and would likely have sympathy. I'd have a full tank of gas in my car and I would somehow transport a cell phone from 2010 in my hand

Wendy Camp - I'd hide in the trunk of the Noe's car. If there was a mafia killing I'd be powerless and would just act as an eyewitness for later but if Beverly, Ida and Chad were the only ones doing the abducting I am pretty sure I would be able to overpower Chad and would worry about a 50 and 70 year old woman later

Larry/Tommy Gibson - I'd hide in a tree and watch Tommy from above. I'd see Larry go jogging and I'd knock on his door with Debra answering telling her that her son was crossing the street and I almost hit him, leaving Tommy safe inside the house, the cat on the other hand.............well who even likes cats anyways? :lol:

Jeffrey MacDonald - Without anyone else knowing I would sleepover at their house in a seperate bedroom. There were no guns used so I have a trusty handgun with me. If the hippy story is true I fire as soon as the acid comment starts. If Jeffrey's story is a lie I'd shoot him in the leg before he'd kill anyone

Amy Billig - I'd follow her from her house to the restaurant she was supposed to go for lunch. End of story.

Eric and Pam Ellender - They wouldn't know it, but I'd be lying awake in the livig room waiting for the cult freaks to show up. Bang, bang, bang game over and they'd have a shotgun so the self defense theory would cover me

If we are in a Hot Tub Time Machine going back in time, you could just take a gun and wear gloves, lol, jk.

[MegtheEgg86]

Jeffrey MacDonald - Without anyone else knowing I would sleepover at their house in a seperate bedroom. There were no guns used so I have a trusty handgun with me. If the hippy story is true I fire as soon as the acid comment starts. If Jeffrey's story is a lie I'd shoot him in the leg before he'd kill anyone

And then you face federal charges for not only possessing, but utilizing a firearm not registered on and with a U.S. military installation, and automatically in a much worse predicament than MacDonald initially was.

[Mastermind]

Too much of this thread is twenty-twenty hindsight. I figure most of it is also tongue and cheek.;) I'll play along

Larry/Tommy Gibson - I'd hide in a tree and watch Tommy from above. I'd see Larry go jogging and I'd knock on his door with Debra answering telling her that her son was crossing the street and I almost hit him, leaving Tommy safe inside the house, the cat on the other hand.............well who even likes cats anyways?


I would worry more about getting caught by Larry Gibson and being shot for being a peeping tom. :(

I would not drive my car if someone demanded that I do so, even if they had a gun. Frankly, Id rather be shot on the spot then endure the incredible terror that some of these people had to face. And perhaps if you try to escape immediately, they will lose the courage to shoot you?

This is easier said then done. A lot of it depends on the circumstances.

Amy Billig - I'd follow her from her house to the restaurant she was supposed to go for lunch. End of story.

What prevents the bikers or whomever from killing you, instead for

Wendy Camp - I'd hide in the trunk of the Noe's car. If there was a mafia killing I'd be powerless and would just act as an eyewitness for later but if Beverly, Ida and Chad were the only ones doing the abducting I am pretty sure I would be able to overpower Chad and would worry about a 50 and 70 year old woman later

Okay say you are the man and you lay the hurt on Chad. You just stopped this incident. Are you going to watch Wendy Camp 24-7 and keep beating up Chad everytime he decides to get violent.

Tara Calico-drive along the road she took her bike across, keep my distance, when I saw her get in trouble by someone in a vehicle I would speed up to them, get their license number, then aid Tara any way I could. If she was ran over, I would come to her aid. If she was forced into a vehicle, I would follow closely. I would also have a handgun ready but only use it if she was about to be murdered.

Something you didn;t consider in all this is that YOU yourself could become a suspect!!!:lol:

Think about it.
1. Your following Angela all over the place.
2. You know all these details about the case.
3. You probably fit the profile.
4. You also have a gun.(which might be illegal) Why were you out that night with a gun???
5. Several people probably witnessed you as a suspicious person following her.

You better pray that the license number turns up. Because if it doesn;t you may need to lawyer up!!:lol:

Michaela Galbrecht - Follow Michaela to the store watch her scooter. Have a notepad and a pencil with me. Watch the abductor pick her up and follow him. Write his licence plate down because once he catches wind of someone following him I would assume that he'd do whatever speed necessary to get away. Or I'd park my car parellel in the exit to the driveway and then jump the car praying he does not have a gun

Same problem as the above. "Some strange, creepy guy was watching Michaela all day and writing stuff on a notepad. I think he was drawing pornagraphic doodles." :lol:

Even worse people have your license plate number to give to the police.

Eric and Pam Ellender - They wouldn't know it, but I'd be lying awake in the livig room waiting for the cult freaks to show up. Bang, bang, bang game over and they'd have a shotgun so the self defense theory would cover me

Very noble of you. You'll have that nobility to think about when your serving life. You broke into a house and killed multiple people. Since you killed every conspirator in the house there is no one to verify that they were trying to stop a murder plot. To the police this was a botched robbery or kidnapp attempt that resulted in you killing your co-conspirators because they wouldn't let you in on the cut.

The fact that you had info on this plot ahead of time could only mean that you were attending SKATERS meetings. This would be verified by members that so you lurking around and asking questions about the attack on the Ellenders.

When you try to explain to the law that you knew of a plot and killed the assailants..they ask you the question that I ask you now...

WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST TELL THE POLICE!!!

While stammering in your response...the law become even more skeptical and decide that this must have been in on the plan and just got cold feet and decided to off your co-conspirators.

[MegtheEgg86]

As well, in the Ellender case, the "self defense theory" (whatever that is, in the context of Louisiana state law or otherwise) isn't necessarily going to cover you. Especially since no one has attempted to harm you, and you've already unlawfully entered someone's home.

Mastermind, I think we're both too serious for this thread. :lol:

[Clockworkhigh]

[QUOTE]Too much of this thread is twenty-twenty hindsight. I figure most of it is also tongue and cheek.;) I'll play along

Yes, it is of course. No one is here to judge the would have, could haves of these cases. Hindsight IS of course 20/20 but this is all hypothetical.


What prevents the bikers or whomever from killing you, instead for

Write down a plate number if she gets picked up. Or call the police. Or both. No question I wouldn't confront the bikers.


Okay say you are the man and you lay the hurt on Chad. You just stopped this incident. Are you going to watch Wendy Camp 24-7 and keep beating up Chad everytime he decides to get violent.

Foiling an attempted kidnapping/murder? I have a hard time Chad would ever try anything to Wendy again and even if he wasn't doing time in prison he would likely lose custody of their son.

[Mastermind]

Quote:
Okay say you are the man and you lay the hurt on Chad. You just stopped this incident. Are you going to watch Wendy Camp 24-7 and keep beating up Chad everytime he decides to get violent
.

Foiling an attempted kidnapping/murder? I have a hard time Chad would ever try anything to Wendy again and even if he wasn't doing time in prison he would likely lose custody of their son

He would only do time for assualt. That doesn't prevent him from getting out of jail and coming back to hurt you. Especially since you caused him the lose of his child. I think you would have to sleep with one eye open from now on!!!

Write down a plate number if she gets picked up. Or call the police. Or both. No question I wouldn't confront the bikers.

But you have to get close enough to get the number. What also prevents him from taking down YOUR plate number and details. Considering he might like young boys as well, perhaps he decides to give up on Tara and make you his "special pal".

[SageSlowdive]

Well obviously, if I had been at the soon-to-be crime scenes, I would have prevented the crimes from ever happening.

Carry a crowbar and a gun :crying:

[CuriousMind90]

In order to stop any of these crimes, you'd have to be a time traveler. Unless you're a psychic in 1988 or 1991, you can't stop any of the above crimes from happening.

[cocytus]

How do stop these crimes from occurring?
Hmm...

1) Make the sure mentally/emotionally ill people seek treatment (Don Kemp, Pamela Martin,etc)
2) Warn people about spending time w/ shady characters.
3) Report any suspicious activity you see.
4) Report any suspected criminal activity
5) Carefully document any thing that strikes you as odd or unusual.

[melskie007]

Well I was in many a situation similar to these type of things: 1. when i was a teenager i knew a man whom had an obsession with me. He pulled a gun out on me in a highschool parking lot and wanted me to point out a boy that i simply was talking to.

How i handled this: I calmly told him i had loved him and told him to put the gun down that was pressed against the temple of my head. I told him why kill a stupid boy when i really wanted a man like him. so he put it down. Then i asked him to take me home so i can get a change of clothes. So he did and i phone the cops. Cops came to my house and took him to jail but released him, which was always weird to me as i had called the police everytime i heard he was outside of my house and they never would keep him!

2 incident: A uncle was told to pick me up from a friends. The uncle was intoxicated and told me to get in and i can drive the car. I was 13 so i thought wow thats cool. I sat in the drivers seat and he wasnt paying attention to where i was going. Soon we reached close to the vicinity of my moms house. He told me to pull over and he would sit in my spot so i did. As soon as he sat back in the drivers seat and me in the passengers, he pulled a knife out so quickly and told me to remove my clothing. I acted like i was going to do this as my other hand was unlocking the car door. i pushed his hand with the knife and jumped out my side of the car. He fled. I told my grandma and mom and he took off to mexico to evade authorities.

I guess the big picture here is remain calmly..If your screaming and yelling, people like this will kill you for sure! No doubt in my mind i would have gotton killed in these situations but i kept my head on me. If i can go back in time to some of these UM's, I deffinately would have done the following:

amy billing= pull her aside after she walked out the door to place hesitation from her being on the road thus she would never have gotton taken. I'd tell her Amy, your friend wanted me to come pick you up and start talking to her about whatever to sidetrack her from going.

Wendy (and dauther and sister n law) I would pop the end of the plastic off a cap gun, and fake i had a real gun and yes point it at those three (the x husband chad, grandma n the other woman involved). I'd escort wendy and family really into the mall and call authorities that these three wanted to kidnap them and had a plot to kill them.

As for every child involved= I'd use the fake gun trick but also throw some crazy story out to them i'm part of the fbi or something. At this they would back off the children and run.

I always wish i could go back in time and save these people...So many UM's, can you imagine how many that were never covered with horrific details?

[CuriousMind90]

bump.

Being able to time travel to the past to save some of these people is almost like a wish of mine.
It'd be so weird to travel back to say, 1987 and save Kathy Hobbs, because I wasn't even born yet, and my parents hadn't even met each other.
Or to 1991 to save Angela Hammond. Going back to those strange, dark early 1990s, knowing somewhere hundreds of miles away, there was an infant me.

To be honest, even though it's such a cool idea, the idea of time travel, especially to a time before you were even conceived, is kind of creepy and scary. The world of 1987, for example, would seem like an utterly alien, hostile place in some ways to me. I'd feel like I didn't belong there (or then).

I was reading this book, this guy, while still a mortal, travels to the Isle of the Dead. He begins to feel very strange, and it's because a part of him knows it's not healthy for a living human to spend any prolonged length of time at the Isle of the Dead. I'd feel that way about time traveling to an era in which I didn't exist yet, or was an infant.

[cocytus]

Well I was in many a situation similar to these type of things: 1. when i was a teenager i knew a man whom had an obsession with me. He pulled a gun out on me in a highschool parking lot and wanted me to point out a boy that i simply was talking to.

How i handled this: I calmly told him i had loved him and told him to put the gun down that was pressed against the temple of my head. I told him why kill a stupid boy when i really wanted a man like him. so he put it down. Then i asked him to take me home so i can get a change of clothes. So he did and i phone the cops. Cops came to my house and took him to jail but released him, which was always weird to me as i had called the police everytime i heard he was outside of my house and they never would keep him!

2 incident: A uncle was told to pick me up from a friends. The uncle was intoxicated and told me to get in and i can drive the car. I was 13 so i thought wow thats cool. I sat in the drivers seat and he wasnt paying attention to where i was going. Soon we reached close to the vicinity of my moms house. He told me to pull over and he would sit in my spot so i did. As soon as he sat back in the drivers seat and me in the passengers, he pulled a knife out so quickly and told me to remove my clothing. I acted like i was going to do this as my other hand was unlocking the car door. i pushed his hand with the knife and jumped out my side of the car. He fled. I told my grandma and mom and he took off to mexico to evade authorities.

I guess the big picture here is remain calmly..If your screaming and yelling, people like this will kill you for sure! No doubt in my mind i would have gotton killed in these situations but i kept my head on me. If i can go back in time to some of these UM's, I deffinately would have done the following:

amy billing= pull her aside after she walked out the door to place hesitation from her being on the road thus she would never have gotton taken. I'd tell her Amy, your friend wanted me to come pick you up and start talking to her about whatever to sidetrack her from going.

Wendy (and dauther and sister n law) I would pop the end of the plastic off a cap gun, and fake i had a real gun and yes point it at those three (the x husband chad, grandma n the other woman involved). I'd escort wendy and family really into the mall and call authorities that these three wanted to kidnap them and had a plot to kill them.

As for every child involved= I'd use the fake gun trick but also throw some crazy story out to them i'm part of the fbi or something. At this they would back off the children and run.

I always wish i could go back in time and save these people...So many UM's, can you imagine how many that were never covered with horrific details?

Carrying and/or displaying a fake gun is a very poor idea. If you display it and your "bluff" is called, you'll be in a worse position than if you had simply yelled out "Fire!" or tried to run away. IMHO, carrying pepper spray and/or a small folding knife would be far more effective as defensive measures than carrying a phony handgun.

[MegtheEgg86]

Carrying and/or displaying a fake gun is a very poor idea. If you display it and your "bluff" is called, you'll be in a worse position than if you had simply yelled out "Fire!" or tried to run away. IMHO, carrying pepper spray and/or a small folding knife would be far more effective as defensive measures than carrying a phony handgun.

While I definitely agree carrying and/or displaying a fake handgun is an extremely poor idea, I would say forget the pepper spray (which does have an expiration date and requires that you close a considerable amount of distance between you and the individual posing an immediate threat to you) and the folding knife (which may be easily wrested from and used against you), and carry an actual handgun (provided, of course, you are familiarized with firearms, have met/completed all legal requirements for your place of residence, and follow all laws concerning its use).

[cocytus]

While I definitely agree carrying and/or displaying a fake handgun is an extremely poor idea, I would say forget the pepper spray (which does have an expiration date and requires that you close a considerable amount of distance between you and the individual posing an immediate threat to you) and the folding knife (which may be easily wrested from and used against you), and carry an actual handgun (provided, of course, you are familiarized with firearms, have met/completed all legal requirements for your place of residence, and follow all laws concerning its use).

I agree that a gun in the hands of a properly trained person is one of the best defensive weapons known to man. But I don't believe that most people have the ability or discipline to learn how to use a firearm safely and responsibly and would probably also have great problems w/ taking a human life.

There is so much involved w/ using a firearm and so many dangers inherent w/ drawing a gun and then hesitating to use it, that outside of home defense, I don't see it as a practical solution for most people. Let's not forget that there are daily stories about people trying to get onto airplanes and into secure areas carrying a firearm that they "forgot" they have meaning that they aren't even thinking about having the gun on them.

While I'm a strong 2nd Amendment supporter, I don't personally don't see where most people would benefit from carrying a handgun for self defense. There are too many variables involved and most people won't put in the effort to maintain a weapon and keep up their proficiency w/ practice.

[MegtheEgg86]

I agree that a gun in the hands of a properly trained person is one of the best defensive weapons known to man. But I don't believe that most people have the ability or discipline to learn how to use a firearm safely and responsibly and would probably also have great problems w/ taking a human life.

There is so much involved w/ using a firearm and so many dangers inherent w/ drawing a gun and then hesitating to use it, that outside of home defense, I don't see it as a practical solution for most people. Let's not forget that there are daily stories about people trying to get onto airplanes and into secure areas carrying a firearm that they "forgot" they have meaning that they aren't even thinking about having the gun on them.

While I'm a strong 2nd Amendment supporter, I don't personally don't see where most people would benefit from carrying a handgun for self defense. There are too many variables involved and most people won't put in the effort to maintain a weapon and keep up their proficiency w/ practice.


Upon further reflection (which I should have engaged in initially), I agree with everything you have stated. It isn't for everyone.

[cocytus]

Upon further reflection (which I should have engaged in initially), I agree with everything you have stated. It isn't for everyone.

I agree w/ your statement that it would be effective than pepper spray and/or a folding knife in most situations for some people.

[CuriousMind90]

bump