if

[Hollow]

jesus already took the punishment for our sins, why do we still go to hell for not kissing his ass? sounds like one of those "free ipod" offers with "by the way you have to buy all this other ****" in the fine print.

[JamesG]

jesus already took the punishment for our sins, why do we still go to hell for not kissing his ass? sounds like one of those "free ipod" offers with "by the way you have to buy all this other ****" in the fine print.

Atheist Answer Here:

From what I understand it is that the grace of God does not give people the license to sin; or a free pass.

When one does commit sin they must repent and not want to sin again. If I recall Jesus said something like, "Now sin no more!" meaning one is forgiven but told not to commit that act again.

Even though you may be forgiven for your sins there are still consequences; like breaking the law puts you in jail. It is not forever but once it is complete God accepts you into his graces; like how an inmate gets released into the "free world".

But in reality no one knows how God judges others so no one can really say anything about that. I don't believe that God wants anyone to go to Hell but humanity has the free will to do so that puts one there.


If I am wrong here then one who is religious can correct it and/or elaborate.

[Hollow]

lol. it would really suck if you repented for your sins, then got into your car to drive to church, some drunken idiot hits you and you yell "OH MY GOD!!!!!1" on impulse, then you immediately die and go burn for eternity because you said the lord's name in vain. that's why i don't think anything worse than purgatory exists, and there's no room in morality for a controlling douche like god to be in charge of everything in the universe. it's freaky thinking about everything he has in common with hitler, except addy boy didn't try to sugarcoat his evilness.

[EmoJoe]

i kinda question hell too...i dont think that everyone gets a free pass to heaven, but i dont think God just throws people into a pit of fire and is like YOU SUCK GO AWAY. i think a "hell" exists but is really more like purgatory, you repent for your sins before going into heaven.

[JamesG]

i kinda question hell too...i dont think that everyone gets a free pass to heaven, but i dont think God just throws people into a pit of fire and is like YOU SUCK GO AWAY. i think a "hell" exists but is really more like purgatory, you repent for your sins before going into heaven.

I don't mean to go into an argument but this is where different interpretations and the like come into play.

You have people believing in different ideas and beliefs; which is also a reason why many different denominations of the Catholic faith came about.

Hell has many different interpretations; some religions believe it's forever while others say it's not.

[*Pleasant Tomorrow*]

lol. it would really suck if you repented for your sins, then got into your car to drive to church, some drunken idiot hits you and you yell "OH MY GOD!!!!!1" on impulse, then you immediately die and go burn for eternity because you said the lord's name in vain. that's why i don't think anything worse than purgatory exists, and there's no room in morality for a controlling douche like god to be in charge of everything in the universe. it's freaky thinking about everything he has in common with hitler, except addy boy didn't try to sugarcoat his evilness.
Oh man, you kill me. Addy boy. :rofl:

That reminds me of something we spoke about in philosophy class last year. Something like...there simply is no evil a mere human being can do to be sent to hell for all eternity. I mean, you can bring up all of these horrible things people are capable of, but think about it: ALL OF ETERNITY. Can we even grasp how long that is? No, because it's not a length. It's frikkin eternity. A loving and logical God wouldn't be capable of burning people in hell for all of eternity. It's simply cruel.

[Chocoholic]

Oh man, you kill me. Addy boy. :rofl:

That reminds me of something we spoke about in philosophy class last year. Something like...there simply is no evil a mere human being can do to be sent to hell for all eternity. I mean, you can bring up all of these horrible things people are capable of, but think about it: ALL OF ETERNITY. Can we even grasp how long that is? No, because it's not a length. It's frikkin eternity. A loving and logical God wouldn't be capable of burning people in hell for all of eternity. It's simply cruel.

What about child abusers, murderers, and rapists? Aren't their crimes evil and disgusting enough to warrant an eternity of damnation?

[Hollow]

Oh man, you kill me. Addy boy. :rofl:

That reminds me of something we spoke about in philosophy class last year. Something like...there simply is no evil a mere human being can do to be sent to hell for all eternity. I mean, you can bring up all of these horrible things people are capable of, but think about it: ALL OF ETERNITY. Can we even grasp how long that is? No, because it's not a length. It's frikkin eternity. A loving and logical God wouldn't be capable of burning people in hell for all of eternity. It's simply cruel.
i agree, that's why i find it ridiculous to believe. even for murderers, the punishment would outweigh the crime, and that is unfair. the effects of murder aren't eternal. the person would have died anyway, and those who grieve for their loss eventually die too and supposedly reunite with them in heaven. (if heaven is real, emotional baggage from the physical world doesn't live on there). it's not that there's anything ok about killing someone, but true fairness is based on facts, not personal feelings. burning on and on forever and ever is literally infinity times worse than being severely abused/killed or mourning all your life for someone who was.

[*Pleasant Tomorrow*]

What about child abusers, murderers, and rapists? Aren't their crimes evil and disgusting enough to warrant an eternity of damnation?
Logically, no. Like Sarah said, the punishment outweighs the crime. As heinous as those acts are, eternal damnation is far, far beyond. Honestly, try to comprehend burning in a firey pit for all of eternity. Does that even compare to murdering someone? No just and loving God could logically be that cruel.

[Courtnee]

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with what you guys are saying. :nod:

[Pus$y Galore]

Interesting topic and discussion guys! And I would agree, even murder, rape, etc. isn't bad enough to burn for supposed eternity. Sounds like someone went nuts interpreting Jesus' teachings (directly into the bible, hence my non-believing of a book interpreted and written by mere mortals (scribes of the day).

It's like if I were writing a translation book and wanted to screw around with interpretations of some phrases if I were the educated one and the others illiterate (which the masses were in those days). meh

[Retro4Life]

Interesting thread.

Another interpretation is that one would reside in Hell (or "Hell", depending on your point of view) as a sort of self-imposed punishment, triggered by your own ego and inability to recognize the Greater Good or Oneness of the universe. (I know that's sort of a New Agey way to describe it, but hopefully my meaning is clear). Once one acknowledges his failures, forgives himself and understands the evil he/she has done, perhaps at that point they "move on".

I have a little trouble with an eternity of Hell myself. I guess for those who never repent or understand what they've done, the term might be much, much longer. I think it's comforting to think that the "trigger" for redemption does truly lie with yourself. I don't profess to be an expert on religion (or anything really) but that notion seems to be consistent with most Christian ideas about redemption; it is always there and possible but YOU are the one that has the burden of working toward it by repenting first.

[LuLu Rogers]

I have to say, it's all pretty clear to me. God gives you a choice. You can chose to follow him and he will save you, or you can chose to go your own way and suffer the consequences, i.e. Hell. God sacrificed his only son to forgive our sins, and all he asks in return is that we believe in him and follow his plan for our lives.

Everyone has different beliefs and God doesn't force you to believe in him, he gave us the ability to chose. It's all up to you.

Sins can be forgiven. If you're saved, God will not condemn you to hell if you sin. Sinning is human nature, we're not perfect and God knows that. The only ticket to hell is refusing to accept Him as your Savior.

[comedyfreak]

Well said LuLu I agree.

[PlayOn]

I have to say, it's all pretty clear to me. God gives you a choice. You can chose to follow him and he will save you, or you can chose to go your own way and suffer the consequences, i.e. Hell. God sacrificed his only son to forgive our sins, and all he asks in return is that we believe in him and follow his plan for our lives.

Everyone has different beliefs and God doesn't force you to believe in him, he gave us the ability to chose. It's all up to you.

Sins can be forgiven. If you're saved, God will not condemn you to hell if you sin. Sinning is human nature, we're not perfect and God knows that. The only ticket to hell is refusing to accept Him as your Savior.

Right. We aren't robots. God excepts us to mess up. Just don't make a habit of it. Besides, it's called 'sin' for a reason. Anything meaning unhealthy for us. Like idol worship. If we obsess over something, it can drive us crazy (watch The Facts of Life episode 'Magnificent Obsession' to see my point)

[Hollow]

Interesting topic and discussion guys! And I would agree, even murder, rape, etc. isn't bad enough to burn for supposed eternity. Sounds like someone went nuts interpreting Jesus' teachings (directly into the bible, hence my non-believing of a book interpreted and written by mere mortals (scribes of the day).

It's like if I were writing a translation book and wanted to screw around with interpretations of some phrases if I were the educated one and the others illiterate (which the masses were in those days). meh
yeah, i never understood why people have so much faith in such a baseless book of immoral fairytales. they're unsure about something, they turn to something that a bunch of unknown strangers wrote that's been translated from language to language, wording to wording, interpretation to interpretation. unbelievable. about a year ago i decided to read part of it to make my own interpretation of it and i just about vomited at the stuff that's in there. i think i'd rather go to hell than live the way "god" wants me to. rofl

[JamesG]

yeah, i never understood why people have so much faith in such a baseless book of immoral fairytales. they're unsure about something, they turn to something that a bunch of unknown strangers wrote that's been translated from language to language, wording to wording, interpretation to interpretation. unbelievable. about a year ago i decided to read part of it to make my own interpretation of it and i just about vomited at the stuff that's in there. i think i'd rather go to hell than live the way "god" wants me to. rofl

It's also interesting to read the many texts that the church has disqualified called The Gnostic Gospels.

I have a book around here called The Nag Hammadi Library that has all of the scriptures rejected by the church.

That is a great read.

[Hollow]

Right. We aren't robots. God excepts us to mess up. Just don't make a habit of it. Besides, it's called 'sin' for a reason. Anything meaning unhealthy for us. Like idol worship. If we obsess over something, it can drive us crazy (watch The Facts of Life episode 'Magnificent Obsession' to see my point)
haha like i said, it's like one of those "TOTALLY FREE* IPOD!!!!!1 *you just have to buy at least 500 of our other products to get it" things. lzol.

is that really his definition of sinning? i definitely don't see how anyone is harming themselves by having gay sex, cutting their hair, wearing polyester, eating shrimp, working on saturdays, or getting divorced. (yes gays can get AIDS, but so can straight people and lesbians can't stick it up the ass). in fact, some people may be harming themselves by NOT doing those things. letting your hair get too long can be dangerous. (mine is down to my thighs and it gets caught in things like car doors all the time, but i won't cut it until i start tripping on it). and no one should be forced to stay in a marriage with someone who is abusing them.

he also has wonderfully safe solutions for dilemmas. if a married woman gets accused of having lost her virginity before she was married, she has to **** her father at the city gates so everyone can see if any blood comes out of her p_ssy. yeah, that's definitely not going to disturb anyone. of course like i said, i don't take anything in the bible to heart, but if that's what christianity goes by, that's what i'm commenting on.

[Hollow]

It's also interesting to read the many texts that the church has disqualified called The Gnostic Gospels.

I have a book around here called The Nag Hammadi Library that has all of the scriptures rejected by the church.

That is a great read.
haha, that's got to be interesting.

[JamesG]

haha, that's got to be interesting.

Pick it up sometime..

[Sterling Holobyte]

It really is as simple as that, Lulu. God gives us a choice. We can either listen to and choose Our Father's teachings, or we can rebel against them, as many will. It has been already foreseen.

The best definition of hell that we can probably understand is that it is a total absence of God. And let me tell you, all you melancholy depressive types. If you think you get depressed in today's world, with the Holy Spirit still in it, you have not felt depression of the scale you will feel with God not with you.
I can't even imagine it.

A good Father, who wants the best for his children, will try to steer them in the right path, even though they may not understand right away. But sometimes he will have to let them make their own choices, to succeed or fail with the choices they make. Good or evil.

It is not God's fault that some will choose evil, whether they want to accept it as evil or not. We were all given this information. What we choose to do with it is up to us.

[Retro4Life]

I heard a neat story/parable recently. It's a native American story about a father who tells his son that there are two great wolves that roam the earth; one of which is Pure Good, and one of which is Pure Evil, and that these two are locked in eternal struggle.

The little boy asks his father, "Which one of the wolves will win the fight?"

His father answers, "Whichever one you feed."

[Sterling Holobyte]

I heard a neat story/parable recently. It's a native American story about a father who tells his son that there are two great wolves that roam the earth; one of which is Pure Good, and one of which is Pure Evil, and that these two are locked in eternal struggle.

The little boy asks his father, "Which one of the wolves will win the fight?"

His father answers, "Whichever one you feed."
That's neat, Retro! I just read that myself. It was posted on the wall near a copier where I work.:wave:

[Retro4Life]

Sweet! I really love that story; very simple and very true. :wave:

[Hollow]

We were all given this information. What we choose to do with it is up to us.
what about people who were brought up with other religions and never heard of christinity in their lives? i've heard some christians say that these people are exceptions because they didn't get a chance, which makes me think that the most fool-proof way to avoid hell is to avoid god. rofl

anyway yeah, i just don't find any room in morality for those kinds of ideas. it's in my core beliefs that i won't be punished for doing what i have the right to do. to even think that someone would go to hell because they were brought up with isalm, and heard about the existence of christianity but OMFG didn't give up their core beliefs to convert...retarded, christianity isn't objectively more "right" than any other religion. i'd hate to be a part of something so incredibly arrogant.

[LuLu Rogers]

Sarah, you know I love you to death, but I have to completely disagree with you there. Christianity is FAR from Arrogant, trust me.

[JT]

When I need spiritual guidance, I don't reach for the Bible, which is shrouded in mystery and misinterpretation and all of that nonsense. I just have a conversation in my head with who I hope is a higher power, and when things happen the way they happen, I consider that my answer. That's what's simple for me. If God is in total control of everything and doesn't like so-called "evil" people, then why does he create "evil" people to begin with?

[*Pleasant Tomorrow*]

When I need spiritual guidance, I don't reach for the Bible, which is shrouded in mystery and misinterpretation and all of that nonsense. I just have a conversation in my head with who I hope is a higher power, and when things happen the way they happen, I consider that my answer. That's exactly what I do. I don't really have any set beliefs because as a mere human being, I don't consider myself capable of figuring out the almighty truth or whatever. It's like telling a dog to solve a math problem...they just don't have the ability to do it.

[EmoJoe]

i just think the whole "hell" thing kind of doesn't make much sense, now...i do believe there is punishment for people who haven't accepted God or are all evil and all that, but i see it being more like a second chance (purgatory maybe) than just being sent to hell forever.

[*Pleasant Tomorrow*]

yeah, i never understood why people have so much faith in such a baseless book of immoral fairytales. they're unsure about something, they turn to something that a bunch of unknown strangers wrote that's been translated from language to language, wording to wording, interpretation to interpretation. unbelievable. about a year ago i decided to read part of it to make my own interpretation of it and i just about vomited at the stuff that's in there. i think i'd rather go to hell than live the way "god" wants me to. rofl
:clap:

Btw, you are making me lmao. So right, though, the things you're saying.

[JT]

That's exactly what I do. I don't really have any set beliefs because as a mere human being, I don't consider myself capable of figuring out the almighty truth or whatever. It's like telling a dog to solve a math problem...they just don't have the ability to do it.
Pretty much. Why bother driving ourselves crazy thinking about it? We'll find out what happens when we die, if indeed something happens, and what we THINK is gonna happen probably has absolutely no bearing at all on what WILL happen. But then again, that right there itself can be untrue.

[Sterling Holobyte]

what about people who were brought up with other religions and never heard of christinity in their lives? i've heard some christians say that these people are exceptions because they didn't get a chance, which makes me think that the most fool-proof way to avoid hell is to avoid god. rofl

anyway yeah, i just don't find any room in morality for those kinds of ideas. it's in my core beliefs that i won't be punished for doing what i have the right to do. to even think that someone would go to hell because they were brought up with isalm, and heard about the existence of christianity but OMFG didn't give up their core beliefs to convert...retarded, christianity isn't objectively more "right" than any other religion. i'd hate to be a part of something so incredibly arrogant.
I can seek to know God, or I can reject Him. We were all made with a conscience, and God has a way of revealing Himself to everyone, wherever they may be. That will lead them to search for more, and they will find Jesus. They may take the wrong road, or give up half-way down the trail, but they will know of Him.
God will judge us, and He will do so righteously. I cannot say how he will do it, but then I am not God. 8 For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My Ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the Heavens are higher than the Earth, so are My Ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But you and I know of Him so there is no excuse, sorry. And nowadays, the Gospel is everywhere.
It is a narrow path, not a broad one.


More importantly though, theologian Charles Spurgeon was once asked by a student what happened to those who never heard the gospel. His response was this: "It is more a question of whether we - who have the gospel and fail to give it to those who have not - can be saved."
Good point.

[Hollow]

I can seek to know God, or I can reject Him. We were all made with a conscience, and God has a way of revealing Himself to everyone, wherever they may be. That will lead them to search for more, and they will find Jesus. They may take the wrong road, or give up half-way down the trail, but they will know of Him.
God will judge us, and He will do so righteously. I cannot say how he will do it, but then I am not God. 8 For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My Ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the Heavens are higher than the Earth, so are My Ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But you and I know of Him so there is no excuse, sorry. And nowadays, the Gospel is everywhere.
It is a narrow path, not a broad one.


More importantly though, theologian Charles Spurgeon was once asked by a student what happened to those who never heard the gospel. His response was this: "It is more a question of whether we - who have the gospel and fail to give it to those who have not - can be saved."
Good point.
you have got to be kidding me. first off, it is a fact that some people never hear about christianity in their lives. they're raised with other religions and don't live around anyone or anything christian. they just never learn about it and that's reality. exactly HOW do they know that they're supposed to sit down one day and think "gee, i wonder if there's a control freak up in the sky who has a son who can save me from some fiery place at the bottom of the universe called hell if i follow all of his rules. boy i should go look them up so i can start obeying."? i am legitimately asking this. or maybe jesus comes knocking on their door like those mormon earwigs do, i wouldn't know.

second, many other religions have the same belief of "follow our god or go to hell." what makes christianity the greater one? or is that "just how it is" because that's what you were told to believe? you may say "oh well i know god is real because he's in my heart i have so many blessings blah blah blah" but people of other religions will say the same things about theirs. if you're taking a test and you see a line at the top that says "write all answers in blue ink" and another that says "write all answers in black ink," would it be fair to punish you for choosing the wrong one when no one was available to tell you which one it was? of course not. there was no evidence that either was more right than the other, same with christianity and other religions. they ALL claim to be "right" and there's no authority above them to guide the rest of us.

beaten with stripes? i have no idea what the gibberish excerpt from the book of immoral fairytales is saying, so i can't comment.

and if i'm going to hell for not preaching against my own beliefs, that's fine. fact is that christianity made my life go to ****. whenever i made an effort to be close to god, everything would immediately spiral downward. every time i prayed for something, not only would be opposite happen but something else would throw salt in the wounds. EVERY TIME. and EVERY TIME i started forgetting about god, things would look up. this went on for seven consistent years, i'm not talking about one or two brief times. i've been christianity-free for about a year now, life has been greater than ever and the more i look back at that load of ****, the sillier i feel for following it. it's my personal belief that there was a greater force trying to keep me from it all along so that i don't waste my life.

[Dragonflies]

My grandma who was very religious always told me that murderers and whatnot once they are saved can go to heaven if they truly repent and stay true to god and his word.

I've always believed Hell was for eternity.

[LoveMrsG]

I can seek to know God, or I can reject Him. We were all made with a conscience, and God has a way of revealing Himself to everyone, wherever they may be. That will lead them to search for more, and they will find Jesus. They may take the wrong road, or give up half-way down the trail, but they will know of Him.
God will judge us, and He will do so righteously. I cannot say how he will do it, but then I am not God. 8 For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My Ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the Heavens are higher than the Earth, so are My Ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But you and I know of Him so there is no excuse, sorry. And nowadays, the Gospel is everywhere.
It is a narrow path, not a broad one.


More importantly though, theologian Charles Spurgeon was once asked by a student what happened to those who never heard the gospel. His response was this: "It is more a question of whether we - who have the gospel and fail to give it to those who have not - can be saved."
Good point.
THANK YOU!!! :clap I couldn't have said it any better myself!

[Sterling Holobyte]

you have got to be kidding me.
No, I am not kidding you.

first off, it is a fact that some people never hear about christianity in their lives. they're raised with other religions and don't live around anyone or anything christian.
The fact is that many people who were never told about Him come to Jesus every day. As I stated before, I do not know how God does this in every instance, but He does.

i am legitimately asking this.
I know you are. And it would be best if you found a Bible-believing church to help you find your answers. I am unworthy to give you answers.
Of course, a true Bible-believing church leader would tell you the same thing of himself.

what makes christianity the greater one?
Jesus does. Because He died for your sins and mine.

or is that "just how it is" because that's what you were told to believe? you may say "oh well i know god is real because he's in my heart i have so many blessings blah blah blah" but people of other religions will say the same things about theirs.
I know He is real because of what I have experienced. But yes, I also know by faith as well.
And I would rather have faith in the word of God than the word of the world.

beaten with stripes? i have no idea what the gibberish excerpt from the book of immoral fairytales is saying, so i can't comment.
So find out.

and if i'm going to hell for not preaching against my own beliefs, that's fine.
Your "own" worldly beliefs. Remember, who do you want to believe, God or man?

fact is that christianity made my life go to ****. whenever i made an effort to be close to god, everything would immediately spiral downward.
That right there proves God's existence, doesn't it? The devil loves to throw a monkey-wrench in your life to keep you from God.

i've been christianity-free for about a year now, life has been greater than ever
If that were true, you wouldn't be making threads like this. You would just be going on with your life, la-de-da.

it's my personal belief that there was a greater force trying to keep me from it all along so that i don't waste my life.
I wouldn't say "greater."


I am praying for you.
Even though I don't know you, God knows who you are.

[bandito]

No, I am not kidding you.


The fact is that many people who were never told about Him come to Jesus every day. As I stated before, I do not know how God does this in every instance, but He does.


I know you are. And it would be best if you found a Bible-believing church to help you find your answers. I am unworthy to give you answers.
Of course, a true Bible-believing church leader would tell you the same thing of himself.


Jesus does. Because He died for your sins and mine.


I know He is real because of what I have experienced. But yes, I also know by faith as well.
And I would rather have faith in the word of God than the word of the world.


So find out.


Your "own" worldly beliefs. Remember, who do you want to believe, God or man?


That right there proves God's existence, doesn't it? The devil loves to throw a monkey-wrench in your life to keep you from God.


If that were true, you wouldn't be making threads like this. You would just be going on with your life, la-de-da.


I wouldn't say "greater."


I am praying for you.
Even though I don't know you, God knows who you are.Great post, Sterling. :thumbsup:

[Hollow]

The fact is that many people who were never told about Him come to Jesus every day. As I stated before, I do not know how God does this in every instance, but He does.
what about children who were brought up with other religions and die very young? they never learn about him.

I know you are. And it would be best if you found a Bible-believing church to help you find your answers. I am unworthy to give you answers.
Of course, a true Bible-believing church leader would tell you the same thing of himself.
then why ask?

Jesus does. Because He died for your sins and mine.
that's circular logic, unless you misunderstood me. i asked what makes christianity the "true" religion, not why it's the best.

I know He is real because of what I have experienced. But yes, I also know by faith as well.
And I would rather have faith in the word of God than the word of the world.
i'm not necessarily saying he isn't real, just asking what makes christianity the "right" religion.

So find out.
i don't have a bible-to-english translator.

Your "own" worldly beliefs. Remember, who do you want to believe, God or man?
if god is real, god. (in which case, it would be easier to do if i could hear all this directly from him instead of a book that a bunch of unknown mortals wrote and probably mistranslated a million times.) but objectively, no religion outweighs another, so i go by my own moral instincts.

That right there proves God's existence, doesn't it? The devil loves to throw a monkey-wrench in your life to keep you from God.
then i guess HE was the savior keeping me from wasting my life. *laughtrack, rimshot* but seriously, interesting point, but again i'm not necessarily saying he doesn't exist. if satan was throwing a monkey wrench at me for all that time, then what was god busy doing? i went on for long periods of time ignoring the strings of bad luck, there was no stopping of it. also, maybe i'm mistaken but i thought satan supposedly does nothing more to us that try to sway us from god. god creates everything and controls what happens to us, other than the choices we make.

If that were true, you wouldn't be making threads like this. You would just be going on with your life, la-de-da.
how does asking a question about religion indicate i don't have a good life? i can have an unpopular opinion without being miserable.

[Pitooey]

Sterling has said it all. Thank you Sterling.

:clap:

[TheGreatPretender]

Religion divides people. It really disturbs me. Why can't we just believe in love?


Lmao I'm such a hippy.

[PlayOn]

Religion divides people. It really disturbs me. Why can't we just believe in love?


Lmao I'm such a hippy.

LOL. Love is a good thing.

[biffbronson]

Religion divides people. It really disturbs me. Why can't we just believe in love?


Lmao I'm such a hippy.

Unless I'm mistaken, most religions promote and believe that God is love...!

It's sad when people are attacked over the subject. When you get back all the way to how the universe began, maybe it's something beyond a human's comprehension. An atheist would have a tough time explaining how time began or how being (the universe) came out of nothingness -- but then for a believer, how did God originate in the same line of thinking?

I believe in God (as do most people in the U.S. at least, going by any polls I've come across), but I don't want to impose on others. Yet I do want to say that it's pointless to call believers stupid, as I've seen many times. There are tons of Ph. D's who believe in God just as there are those who are atheists and agnostics. The attacks or heavy arguing from either side just cause aggravation.

[LoveMrsG]

Unless I'm mistaken, most religions promote and believe that God is love...!

It's sad when people are attacked over the subject. When you get back all the way to how the universe began, maybe it's something beyond a human's comprehension. An atheist would have a tough time explaining how time began or how being (the universe) came out of nothingness -- but then for a believer, how did God originate in the same line of thinking?

I believe in God (as do most people in the U.S. at least, going by any polls I've come across), but I don't want to impose on others. Yet I do want to say that it's pointless to call believers stupid, as I've seen many times. There are tons of Ph. D's who believe in God just as there are those who are atheists and agnostics. The attacks or heavy arguing from either side just cause aggravation.
:clap:

[PlayOn]

Unless I'm mistaken, most religions promote and believe that God is love...!

It's sad when people are attacked over the subject. When you get back all the way to how the universe began, maybe it's something beyond a human's comprehension. An atheist would have a tough time explaining how time began or how being (the universe) came out of nothingness -- but then for a believer, how did God originate in the same line of thinking?

I believe in God (as do most people in the U.S. at least, going by any polls I've come across), but I don't want to impose on others. Yet I do want to say that it's pointless to call believers stupid, as I've seen many times. There are tons of Ph. D's who believe in God just as there are those who are atheists and agnostics. The attacks or heavy arguing from either side just cause aggravation.

You're my new best friend. lol. Everything you said is so true.

[biffbronson]

Wow, thank you. I never expected such nice replies...! I'm not a very religious or spiritual person, or at least I don't think of myself that way. I just become sort of mind-boggled when I start trying to apply the "chicken or the egg" approach as to what came first, taking that further to maybe time itself never having had a beginning. It's too much for me, I know I won't find out answers to all questions while I'm on this world. Peace!

[EmoJoe]

i think generally, most people who are religious are pretty tolerant and accepting of others, and don't start spewing slurs at anyone who disagrees with them. unfortunately, it's the few bad apples that spoil the bunch, and make everyone look bad. God taught that you're supposed to love and tolerate everyone no matter what, so people who truly follow him won't judge others and scream and berate them for having different beliefs. the people who do should take a look at themselves and start practicing the religion that they're trying to force on everyone.

there are christians who are overbearing and judgemental for sure and i've seen some athiests who are pretty judgemental of anyone who practices religion, as well. so the offending people on both sides of the spectrum need to learn to just accept that everyone has different views and go with it.

[PlayOn]

i think generally, most people who are religious are pretty tolerant and accepting of others, and don't start spewing slurs at anyone who disagrees with them. unfortunately, it's the few bad apples that spoil the bunch, and make everyone look bad. God taught that you're supposed to love and tolerate everyone no matter what, so people who truly follow him won't judge others and scream and berate them for having different beliefs. the people who do should take a look at themselves and start practicing the religion that they're trying to force on everyone.

there are christians who are overbearing and judgemental for sure and i've seen some athiests who are pretty judgemental of anyone who practices religion, as well. so the offending people on both sides of the spectrum need to learn to just accept that everyone has different views and go with it.

:clap:
Preach it, Bro. Joe. lol.
;)

[Tweety]

Re: Why would a person be punished for eternity for sins committed during a relatively short time on earth?

The punishment for something depends on the nature of the offense, not the time it took to commit the offense.

If it takes person "A" three hours to break into a bank vault and steal a bunch of cash, while it takes person "B" five seconds to kill a person, which is the greater crime?

Rejection of Jesus Christ is the ultimate sin, and is the only sin that will cause a person to end up in Hell. Jesus died for the sins of everyone, but not everyone is willing to receive the gift of eternal life.

People continue to suffer in Hell because Hell is not only a place of punishment for sin, it's a place where sin continues. Sin continues to make Hell what it is.

[PlayOn]

Re: Why would a person be punished for eternity for sins committed during a relatively short time on earth?

The punishment for something depends on the nature of the offense, not the time it took to commit the offense.

If it takes person "A" three hours to break into a bank vault and steal a bunch of cash, while it takes person "B" five seconds to kill a person, which is the greater crime?

Rejection of Jesus Christ is the ultimate sin, and is the only sin that will cause a person to end up in Hell. Jesus died for the sins of everyone, but not everyone is willing to receive the gift of eternal life.

People continue to suffer in Hell because Hell is not only a place of punishment for sin, it's a place where sin continues. Sin continues to make Hell what it is.

Right. And salvation is free. You don't to do good works to get saved. Having said that, God wants us to love others and not to do anything stupid to our bodies (abuse it with alcohol, use drugs, etc.) Everything we do has a consequence, good or bad. It's up to you to pick which road you want to take.