murder of two church fathers

[zack007attack]

What are the identities of the two church fathers that were murdered like months apart but were shown to have some kind of correlation. The case was very interesting because it was so creepy and mysterious. Does anyone know if the killer(s) were ever caught?

[MegtheEgg86]

What are the identities of the two church fathers that were murdered like months apart but were shown to have some kind of correlation. The case was very interesting because it was so creepy and mysterious. Does anyone know if the killer(s) were ever caught?

Their names were Fr. Reynaldo Rivera and Fr. John Kerrigan. Fr. Rivera was certainly murdered (as his body was discovered), but Fr. Kerrigan was never found (he's still officially listed as missing).

The events occured in 1982, months and miles apart (Fr. Rivera was in New Mexico; Fr. Kerrigan was in Montana). Both Roman Catholic priests were Franciscans, and IIRC there was evidence that a coat hanger had been used somehow in Fr. Rivera's death and Fr. Kerrigan's disappearance. No one has ever been charged with the murder/disappearance.

[James T]

Both murders along with some other clergy murders are covered at the link below.

Sadly it seems there is a strong possibilty that both their murders may be connected to child sex abuse, especially Kerrigan who was at a Servants of the Paraclete Centre, for reasons that have never been disclosed.

While this service doubtless helped many with things like alcohol & drug addiction, it also served as somewhere where the church would send child abusers rather than reporting them to the police & banning them, then after they were 'cured' they would usually be packed off to another parish where nobody knew about their past & the inevitable happened again.

http://www.podles.org/case-studies.htm

[kadrmas15]

Nice James. Pretty classless on your part. So the guy worked at this 'center' so you automatically assume he was probably a child molester? As a Catholic I demand that you apologize. I read your 'research' and you were really reaching there. I am not disputing that Father Kerrigan's disappearance MAY have had something to do with someone that held a grudge against Catholic priests because they were molested. However an overwhelming majority, over 95 percent of Catholic priests are good, honorable men. You really need to stop listening to the liberal, anti Catholic, 'mainstream' media and actually look at the facts. Sorry for being a jerk but it just irritates me that you instantly assume that Father Kerrigan was probably a child molester when you basically have zero evidence to indicate that.

[James T]

You obviously did not bother to read my post in full, I said a strong possibility-I never said it is a fact by any means. I also said the Paracletes have helped many with problems such as alcohol & drug addictions & quite possibly helped some child abusing clergy as well. This is not my research, I was simply linking to a site.

You automatically assume I have something against the Catholic faith. I am not religious personally, I have nothing against people having any faith they want though, however your aggression is typical of many faiths when any of their policies are questioned or any criticism is levied, or in this case merely put forward as a potential reason, for many years both the Catholic & Orthodox Chrisitan churches as well as the Scout movement very often ignored child abuse, failed to report it to the authorities & simply moved the individuals elsewhere- thankfully it finally seems to be getting treated properly but really only after multiple lawsuits have been filed.

The post was really not an intention to have a pop at any faith, it was simply to supply information to these two cases which it is hard to get information on & give a new theory as to why it may have happened, it was not a statement of fact.

So no I am not going to apologise for that, if you are upset about this it shows like many others of faith you see attacks where there are none & take it far too seriously.

[kadrmas15]

Hey that is fine James. Also I did read your post in full and I did read what you said. However again, your post gave the impression that there was a possibility of child molestation when there really wasnt any evidence of that at all. I mean yes I do not know for sure that Father Kerrigan was not a child molester. However I am a big believer in innocent until proven guilty, and by the website 'researchers' own admission all the records from this center were destroyed so in any event there is no way to tell one way or another why exactly Father Kerrigan was assigned to the center.

James, I was not aggressive, basically, I was wondering why the child molestation factor came into play at all? Even I brought up that this person who killed Father Rivera and Father Kerrigan may have been a disgruntled person who had been molested by another Catholic Priest. But again there is not really any evidence to point to that. I am not saying it for sure is not the case, I am just saying there is no evidence to point to that.

Father Patrick Ryan was murdered, I still do not believe that it was James Harry Reyos that did that murder. Yes Reyos by his own admission had relations with Father Ryan but those were consensual adult relations. Yes Ryan was breaking the rules because as a priest he is not supposed to have sex with anyone. However I will say there is a HUGE difference between consensual adult relations and child molestation, huge difference.

Well James, I am sorry but in a way you were attacking the faith. Again, by your post, it implies that you believe there is this rampant child molestation problem in the church. I could tell you were not religious and I really do not care about that, however it also shows the secular side of you. Like how the secular media bashes the Catholic church and pretty much any other Christian faith a lot and over reports on the child molestation 'issue' in the church to make it seem like it is way more rampant than it actually is. Therefore sparking fear and paranoia among people against a threat that for the most part is not there.

I am not disputing there are child molesting priests, however the vast majority of priests are not child molesters. In fact, most children are molested by their own family members of friends of their family, if the media reported that accurately you would literally never leave your child alone with anyone.

As for me taking it personally, well I did take it a little personally James, I mean the majority of the priests in the Catholic Church are good men. Again, it is not so much I mind your 'theory' but basically, because there have been problems with child molestation in the Church does not mean there is a rampant problem with it. To me, my faith is my faith, it is a part of me. So yeah I take it personally when someone attacks certain key figures in the faith (the priests) and implies that for two priests to be murdered and not robbed or anything that child molestation, specifically, that the priest that was murdered could have molested the person who killed them, it just irritates me.

[MissFit29]

I think that when you have any unsolved murder, all scenarios and motives, no matter how unpleasant, need to be considered. We don't know what the truth is.

[James T]

This shall be my last post on this matter- as I don't want this board to turn into a never ending debate on religion, plus I have learnt over the years that arguing matters with religious people is pretty much a waste of time, as I expect thery have arguing with non religious people, as they work on totally different levels of belief, morality & logic.

1. There is a possibility of child molestation- the majority of those sent there was due to their sexual interest in children, since the records are conveniently destroyed you are correct in saying there is no way of knowing.

2. It came into play because I have also been looking for information on these cases & this is pretty much all there is out there.

3. Any bashing done to religion is due to the way the religions have acted, I have no idea how rampant child abuse is by the various religions, cults & scout movements around the world today, because they have finally been forced to clean their acts up, but to say it was just a few bad eggs is to believe their party lines & ignore all the cases.

Michael Newton's Black Collar Crimes book covering crime by the clergy has 4 chapters, the first 3 covering fraud, murder & hate crimes covers 68 pages, the 4th chapter covering sex crimes- the vast majority of which are child sex abuse goes from page 69 to page 249. The U.S. Catholic Church alone has paid more than 2.6 billion dollars in settlements & expenses due to their inaction since 1950.

Is it any wonder they get bad press when the leader of the faith today condemns the distribution of condoms in Africa to help stop the spread of Aids & allows Holocaust denying priests back into the fold & does nothing to boot them back out again?

Yes it could be robbery, a serial killer or something else, but if there had not been such abuse that religious organisations turned a blind eye to & covered up until the media pressure meant they no longer could, then it would never have been a possibility would it? In fact without the evil biased media attention it is unlikely anything would have changed, as it never did for decades until they started showing interest.

[kadrmas15]

James, it was a few bad eggs. You act like it was some rampant thing, I suppose 'non-religious' people never molest children in your world? I did say there was a possibility that there was child molestation or that someone molested by another Catholic Priest held a grudge and murdered these Priests in retaliation.

It may have been a cover-up James, it may have been a fire that destroyed the records, who knows? Yet you instantly assume it was some kind of a cover up. Yes there was/is a problem in the Catholic Church with certain Priests being child molesters. No one has denied that from what I can tell. But for whatever reason because of your dislike of organized religion you feel the need to make accusations you cannot prove.

Again, that is the Pope that argued against condoms, I personally disagree with him on the matter. In any event it has ZERO to do with the topic being discussed here. But the fact that you brought it up does show your hatred or at least extreme dislike of the Catholic Church and probably of all organized religion in general.

[James T]

Like I said it is not a few bad eggs but a widespread problem among various religions & organisations with access to children, if you really wish to carry on this futile debate that we are never going to agree on further, then you can pm me & we can have a pointless back & forth without having it dominate this board & we both end up getting warned & possibly banned.

Otherwise we should both leave it there & agree to disagree, so pm me if you wish to carry on, but nothing else here please.

[Mastermind]

Looking at this case a couple of thoughts come to mind.

1. If the two murders are connected, the killer almost has to be a member of the Franciscans church at some point. How many non-religious people are that familiar with the the divisions within Christianity, that well. Especially before internet.

2. The fact that more than one individual was involved and that the murders happened so far apart makes me wonder if some type of organizational aspect is involved in this. Satanic Cult comes to mind. Sad to see there are many people out there who want to kill a priest just to prove againts christianity in their mind. The whole "where's God know!" type of thing.

3. I find it hard to believe that both priests were attacked miles apart for the purpose of child molestation revenge. On one person maybe, but on two?

4. Attacking a priest is almost like killing a cop or politician. Only a desparate criminal would rob an kill a priest for money.

[justins5256]

I was never sure that these murders were related. It's hard to say. Some things to consider...

I've stated before that I think Father Renaldo Rivera was not targeted specifically. In the UM re-enactment, the killer calls the rectory and gets one priest who is unable to meet the caller. The priest advises him to call back in a few minutes. The killer phones again some time later and gets Father Renaldo. While not impossible, I find it unlikely that the killer would have known that Renaldo would answer the call. If the first priest had been able to meet the caller, he probably would have been the victim.

There was no attempt to hide Renaldo's body in any way. It was easily found.

In Kerrigan's case, we don't know how or where he encountered his assailant. However, he had a large sum of money on his person that was not stolen - the exact amount escapes me but it was something like $1000 or $2000. I think we can rule out robbery then. Why was he walking around with such a large sum of money though? Was he involved in something shady?

To date, Kerrigan's body hasn't been recovered. Doesn't really jibe with Renaldo's death.

On the other hand, there was enough blood found to leave little doubt that Kerrigan was murdered. The killer could have attempted to clean this up if his goal was to conceal Kerrigan's murder.

Stack also mentioned that there was evidence that a coat hangar was used in both attacks.

Both priests were Franciscans.

I don't know. You guys think these crimes were related?

[Mastermind]

I don't know. You guys think these crimes were related?

I'm inclined to believe that the two murders are not connected. The coat hanger may just be a coincidence...if one was ever used.

The murders happened to far apart for a single individual. Unless these murders are the result of a satanic cult, I have to imagine these murders were separate incidents.

[justins5256]

Another thought...

I could see Father Renaldo's murder being the work of someone who just wanted to kill a Catholic priest - any Catholic priest, possibly even a Franciscan if you want to take that approach.

With Kerrigan's murder, we just don't have enough information to say one way or another. There isn't any hint of a motive, aside from a random priest killer. I still say the fact that he was wandering around with all that money is suspicious. Aren't priests supposed to rid themselves of material possessions?

[Mastermind]

I'm sorry if this was mentioned before..but which priest had the chalice missing?

How much is a church chalice worth these days?

Aren't priests supposed to rid themselves of material possessions?

This is an interesting point.

I'm tempted to ask the father at my church this Sunday about whether he keeps a lot of money on him.....well that's probably not a good idea. :(

Who knows, maybe he's a UM fan as well. :)

[nohwheregirl]

Aren't priests supposed to rid themselves of material possessions?
No. Nuns take a vow of poverty. I think only certain orders of priests take vows of poverty.

[justins5256]

No. Nuns take a vow of poverty. I think only certain orders of priests take vows of poverty.

My mistake, I'm sorry. Thanks for clarifying the issue. :)