Was John Lennon an Atheist?

[Shine]

Many people believe that John Lennon was an athesit. There is certainly evidence to indicate that he was. John stirred up quite a bit of controversey in 1965 when he said that he felt that the Beatles were more popular among kids then Jesus. On his debut solo album, 1970's Plastic Ono Band, John gave us one of his most powerful songs called "God" in which he said he believed in neither Jesus nor the Bible, and the first line in his peace anthem "Imaging" is "Imagine there's no heaven". However, I don't think John was an atheist.

A coworker asked me recently how I could be Catholic but identify so much with John's song "Imagine", which is my favorite song. My response was that even though I believe in heaven and God, I don't beleive in what many people do in his name. It's a historical fact that religion was the basis for many of mankind's bloodiest tragedies. So when John wrote "Imagine there's no heaven" and that he didn't believe in Jesus and the Bible, I take it as he didn't support what so many people have done in the name of God and Jesus.

When John wote both "God" and "Imagine" I feel that he was thinking the same way. After all, many of Lennon's lyrics were actually symbolic of something else. In his book, Lennon, author Ray Coleman said that he felt that John simply didn't believe in organized religion and it wasn't that he didn't believe in God or Jesus. What does everyone else think?

[catlover79]

I tend to think he didn't believe in organized religion. I've read this article several times and showed it to others...I'm not sure how true it is, but it does give one pause.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/januaryweb-only/001-22.0.html

[Shine]

I tend to think he didn't believe in organized religion. I've read this article several times and showed it to others...I'm not sure how true it is, but it does give one pause.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/januaryweb-only/001-22.0.html

Thanks for sharing the article, Monika. It was very interesting. As much as I thought I knew about John, some of what was mentioned in this article were things I didn't know. I'm not exactly sure what I think now concerning John's religious beliefs.

[catlover79]

I don't think we'll ever know for sure what they were. But who knows what happened that final day after he was shot? It really makes one wonder...

[AKA]

I like to think that with the correspondence with Roberts, and with some of the lyrics he wrote shortly before his death, he was definitely heading in that direction.

John had a lot of the same problems with Christianity that I used to have (if you look at some of my old posts, you'll see how much I used to hate Christianity and Christians). Unlike John, I was blessed enough to have enough time to sort through those problems.

By the way, I'm a devout Christian, but am definitely against the idea of "religion."

[ABlairican Pie]

In 1966 when Lennon made his infamous "The Beatles are more popular than Jesus" comment to a British paper, he actually found it ironic that The Beatles were more popular than the world's central religious figure (or, at least in the West). He later said that he did not want to come across as being "anti-religious" or "anti-Christian", but that he had a healthy respect for Christ. He also said that his views were shaped by a popular book at the time
called 'The Passover Plot' which claimed that the disciples "twisted" the Gospel message for their own ends.

When he began his solo career in the early 70's, he began to say that he did not "believe in Jesus" or God in one song because of the backlash in America over what he said about Christ. Such nice, loving Christians burning Beatles' albums and making threats against them, right? :rolleyes: In that song, he also said that he did not "believe in The Beatles--I just believe in me". It was
an attempt to distance himself as this big iconic figure who had become a lightning rod for controversy.

However, in the final years of Lennon's life, British rock journalist/poet Steve Turner actually says that John actually briefly became a Christian and began watching shows such as The 700 Club and prayed with his young son Sean, getting emotional and even sobbing, letting loose some pain over time. But Yoko, who had problems with her first husband who had become a born-again Christian and had gotten custody of her first daughter Kyoko, talked John out of it. There's no exact account of where he stood on religion when he died.
But one can always hope...

[AKA]

These are the lyrics to "Help Me To Help Myself," a demo John recorded shortly before in 1980, and was released as a bonus track on the 2000 reissue of Double Fantasy.

Well, I tried so hard to stay alive
But the angel of destruction keeps on houndin' me all around
But I know in my heart
That we never really parted, oh no

They say the Lord helps those who helps themselves
So I'm asking this question in the hope that you'll be kind
'Cause I know deep inside I was never satisfied, oh no

Lord, help me, Lord
Please, help me, Lord, yeah yeah yeah
Help me to help myself
Help me to help myself

[catlover79]

^ I'd like to hear that song. Thanks for bringing it up, Brad. :cool:

[Shine]

^ Thanks for sharing the lyrics, Brad. I really like that song too.

[Shine]

If any of you are interested in reading a really good Lennon biography, you should check out the one I mentioned in my first post, Lennon by Ray Coleman. It's quite probably the best book ever written on John. I believe that it is out of print, but I'm sure you could find it in a used bookstore or your local library.

[floyd2006]

I personally dont know what his religion was, but does it matter. John Lennon made some lovely music and thats all I really need.

[Smallscreen]

"Imagine" is the communist manifesto set to music. It is also a great song. Apparently, that is were John's mind was when he wrote it.

John was just 40 when he was murdered. Like all of us, he had gone through many intellect changes while searching for maturity. Who knows who he would be today if he had lived.

[catlover79]

^ It sure does give one a lot to think about. I was only a year old when John passed, but grew up to really admire and respect his songwriting skills. He'd be almost 70 (!) had he lived.

[Shine]

John was certainly a facinating man.

[MrCleveland]

Thanks for sharing the article, Monika. It was very interesting. As much as I thought I knew about John, some of what was mentioned in this article were things I didn't know. I'm not exactly sure what I think now concerning John's religious beliefs.

I think Lennon should've talked to Elvis at the time since Elvis knew Rex Humbard. (I can never get over that Elvis knew Rex, and I was surprised that Humbard didn't do the eulogy for Elvis.)

[robyrob]

I honestly don't understand why people assume that if someone is a non-Catholic or non-Christian that they must be an atheist.

John's statement about the Beatles being more popular than Jesus often seems to get twisted around in people's minds to somehow imply that John thought that he was more important than Jesus, rather than a sarcastic statement about how fickle the public is when it comes to picking their idols.

[tv star collector]

I think Lennon should've talked to Elvis at the time since Elvis knew Rex Humbard. (I can never get over that Elvis knew Rex, and I was surprised that Humbard didn't do the eulogy for Elvis.)

Unless I'm mistaken, I think Rex did deliver Elvis's eulogy. Rex talked about
Elvis on the excellent DVD, He Touched Me: The Gospel Music of Elvis
Presley. Narrated by former NBC newscaster Sander Vanocur, I highly
recommend this look at the religious side of Elvis Presley. He had a 30-year
friendship with gospel legend J.D. Sumner (who also appears). Over three
hours of music and interviews with the people who were close to him and
knew his spiritual side.

[BarneyFife]

I just think John was an amazing human being, a talented artist, a great lyricist and he stood for what he stood for/believed in for what he believed in. All we are saying, is give peace a chance. He just spoke on great, monumental topics.

Good post "Wreckless", i agree with you.

[Shine]

I just think John was an amazing human being, a talented artist, a great lyricist and he stood for what he stood for/believed in for what he believed in. All we are saying, is give peace a chance. He just spoke on great, monumental topics.

Great post. I think that you summed up John's legacy beautifully. :)

[MrCleveland]

Unless I'm mistaken, I think Rex did deliver Elvis's eulogy. Rex talked about
Elvis on the excellent DVD, He Touched Me: The Gospel Music of Elvis
Presley. Narrated by former NBC newscaster Sander Vanocur, I highly
recommend this look at the religious side of Elvis Presley. He had a 30-year
friendship with gospel legend J.D. Sumner (who also appears). Over three
hours of music and interviews with the people who were close to him and
knew his spiritual side.

I'm going to have to look at that....And tell my pastor about that too.

[tv star collector]

I'm going to have to look at that....And tell my pastor about that too.

For me, one of the highlights was when one of The Sweet Inspirations spoke
about Elvis leading a prayer meeting for a member of that group who very,
very ill. Afterward, the sick member managed to pull through. Coincidence?

[Shine]

This morning on my way to work, before playing "The Ballad of John and Yoko", the DJ said that it was in a Chicago hotel 42 years ago during a press conference that John apologized for saying that the Beatles were bigger than Jesus.

[tv star collector]

This morning on my way to work, before playing "The Ballad of John and Yoko", the DJ said that it was in a Chicago hotel 42 years ago during a press conference that John apologized for saying that the Beatles were bigger than Jesus.

It was probably an accurate statement that The Beatles were "more popular
than Jesus," at that point in time. But, to many it sounded conceited (and
even blasphemous) to be said by a member of that group. John was always
outspoken and, if nothing else, you have to admire his honesty. He never
hesitated to speak his mind, but in this case he should have been more
tactful and thought before he spoke. I think he always regretted making
that remark.

[mrs.gingerhinkley]

I've always heard that the statement "We're more popular than Jesus" was blown out of preportion, but of course that could just be a cover up. I think the only reason it was taken so seriously was because it was a) the Beatles and some people were just dying to have something against them, and b) it was John Lennon who made the comment, and thus it will be analyzed and tons of not intended nonsense will come from it.

[catlover79]

I agree that the whole quote was blown out of proportion, and that John never could fully live it down. Can you imagine what the fallout would be if one of today's celebrities said that about himself/herself? :eek:

[Shine]

John tried to make it clear in his apology that it was never his intention to claim that the Beatles were better or greater than Jesus. John's statement did lead to a Beatles backlash in the United States, especially in the south, which resulted in mass gatherings where Beatles albums were burned. What some people many not know, is that some of these gatherings were sponsered by the Klu Klux Klan. :eek:

[catlover79]

I just think John was an amazing human being, a talented artist, a great lyricist and he stood for what he stood for/believed in for what he believed in. All we are saying, is give peace a chance. He just spoke on great, monumental topics.
That's a beautiful, insightful post. Thank you!! :clap Does anyone remember that in November 2005, Dateline did a two-hour special about the assassination of John Lennon (it was coming up on the 25th anniversary of that tragic day)? I recorded it, watched it once, loaned it to a co-worker who soon left our company and never returned the tape. :mad: I'd love to see that again. In the special, it said that John Lennon's killer (I won't even say his name, just like the DJs on my favorite classic rock station won't) started feeling hatred for John when he said that "more famous than Jesus" quote. It's incredible, isn't it?? :eek: :(

[ABlairican Pie]

That's a beautiful, insightful post. Thank you!! :clap Does anyone remember that in November 2005, Dateline did a two-hour special about the assassination of John Lennon (it was coming up on the 25th anniversary of that tragic day)? I recorded it, watched it once, loaned it to a co-worker who soon left our company and never returned the tape. :mad: I'd love to see that again. In the special, it said that John Lennon's killer (I won't even say his name, just like the DJs on my favorite classic rock station won't) started feeling hatred for John when he said that "more famous than Jesus" quote. It's incredible, isn't it?? :eek: :(See, people can get so worked up over religion that they have no qualms about killing another person over it. The offending person seems to "lack a soul" so it becomes easy to rub out this "unperson".

[catlover79]

See, people can get so worked up over religion that they have no qualms about killing another person over it. The offending person seems to "lack a soul" so it becomes easy to rub out this "unperson".
Sad but very true. :( :mad:

[Sharop]

This is an interesting thread, Mike. :)

Since I'm a New Ager as well as a Christian, I no longer believe in an actual Heaven or Hell. I don't believe in Satan either, but I do believe in God and Jesus.

I believe that people create what happens to the after they die - their own environment, everything. I believe that people do that in the physical world too, but unlike the spirit world, there is what Abraham (the spiritual entities channelled by Esther Hicks) calls a "buffer of time".

Seth (a spirit channelled by Jane Roberts from 1963 until her death in 1984) explained a lot about how people creates their own realities - he stated several times in the books he dictated that "You create your own reality." I really recommend the Seth books, they're very interesting. I'm nearly finished with Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul and then hope to start The Nature of Personal Reality.

I've been a fan of John Lennon since I was 11 and I believe that he's doing fine. As far as his beliefs, I agree with what people have said about him probably not being into organised religion so much, but I think he was a spiritual man.

Maybe going to the Spiritualist Church would have suited him? I've been going there for several months and found it fun.

[catlover79]

These are the lyrics to "Help Me To Help Myself," a demo John recorded shortly before in 1980, and was released as a bonus track on the 2000 reissue of Double Fantasy.

Well, I tried so hard to stay alive
But the angel of destruction keeps on houndin' me all around
But I know in my heart
That we never really parted, oh no

They say the Lord helps those who helps themselves
So I'm asking this question in the hope that you'll be kind
'Cause I know deep inside I was never satisfied, oh no

Lord, help me, Lord
Please, help me, Lord, yeah yeah yeah
Help me to help myself
Help me to help myself
I recently downloaded that song onto my iPod. Thanks again, Brad, because I'd never heard of it until you brought it up. :cool: :D

[MickeyMac]

I have a question about John Lennon's religious views


Does it matter?


If you are a fan of his music, just dig it and leave it at that.

[Mikado]

John was spiritual, but not religious, mind you, I can't see what difference a person's spirituality has to do with anything, these things should be personal and kept inside one's heart.

[Dr. Thong]

This morning on my way to work, before playing "The Ballad of John and Yoko", the DJ said that it was in a Chicago hotel 42 years ago during a press conference that John apologized for saying that the Beatles were bigger than Jesus.

Yep, and he regretted it for the rest of his life.

He was pressured into doing that because of the uproar it caused in the US. The remark was taken out of context and Lennon felt he shouldn't have to have apologized for that reason, but things had reached a fever pitch with Beatle records being banned on some radio stations and Beatle album and merchandise burnings.

There's a priceless news clip from that year, 1966, of a man in full Ku Klux Klan costume and gear, citing his outrage at the remarks and threatening to have the Klan show up outside a Beatles concert.

I think that really summed up the hypocrisy of the whole matter.