Young Harley Mechanic

[duster340wdg]

Does anyone remember the young man who restored an older Harley Davidson motorcycle and when taking it on a test run some bikers cornered him on some street and he dissapeared? I want to say this story appeared on UM in the early 1990's?

[DarkDante]

It aired in 1989 and was the case of Gus Hoffmann who was abducted and murdered in the garage of the leader of the motorcycle gang "The Forgotten Few" (I think that was their name) - The men who murdered him were John Stell, Michael Stevenson and Michael Hodges. Hodges and Stell were captured while Stevenson died in a police shootout before charges could be filed against him.

The point of the segment was to help Gus's mother locate her son's body. To this day it has not been found. I remember reading a small update on the case on a now defunct webpage where it mentioned that Hoffman's body had not been located but did go into some graphic detail on how he was killed.

[duster340wdg]

Thanks for the reply DarkDante. What city did this take place at?

[Bazorro]

San Diego maybe? somewhere in Cali I think.

they said they think they feed Gus's body to alligators.

[DarkDante]

Are you sure you aren't confusing that with the Amy Billig case who also is strongly rumored to have met her demise due to an encounter with bikers in Florida. The current rumor surrounding her death is that she died the day she vanished at a party with the bikers and they disposed of her remains to alligators.

[UMfan77]

Gus Hoffman was killed by a biker gang. Gus's mom found out through an informant. The informant wouldn't tell where Gus's body was or who did it, but the informant did say that Gus was dead.

[noah82]

This happened in San Jose, if you go into the San Jose Mercury(local newspaper) site and do a search under Gus Hoffman, there's a lot of articles on this case, but you have to pay for them.

[kadrmas15]

Well I am wondering if Hodges and those other guys were ever found guilty of it?

[DarkDante]

kadrmas15, I checked out a few of those articles that noah82 mentioned and although I did not pull up the complete articles by reading the citations I gathered that at least one of the men (Richard Doller) was found guilty and sentenced to a long prison term which he has appealed at least once and lost.

He claimed he was not in the room when the "others" killed Gus Hoffman which leads me to believe that the "others" were also convicted as well.

[kadrmas15]

Well that is good to hear, if Dollar is in prison then I imagine Hodges and that other guy are in prison as well. I know none of them are on death row. But Dollar probably got the lightest term out of the three. I imagine Hodges and the other guy were probably sentenced to life. What they did to Hoffman is sickening and I am glad they got some justice there. Without the death of Michael Stephenson it might not have ever happened. Apperantly everyone was just totally scared to death of the guy. Was Dollar convicted of a lesser crime like 2nd degree murder? Or the same charge as the others? I would be curious to see. Regardless they were sentenced according to 1978 sentencing guidelines so I am sure they are already parole eligible but California is by far the hardest state in the country to get parole in.

[DarkDante]

I found out a little more about what a special individual Michael Lee Stevenson is, most of this information is gleaned from a website of a man name Kenneth Gage who is looking to recieve a pardon for killing one of Stevenson's accomplices back in the early 80s. This may bring some of his accusations about Stevenson into question but given how UM portrayed Mr. Stevenson, I wouldn't be surprised if much of this is true:

- Ken Gage originally encountered Stevenson and his accomplice who Gage refers to as "Daweena Ajanian" (an alias in order to protect the privacy of her family and probably to protect himself from libel) in 1980 when he and his wife befriended Stevenson and Daweena Ajanian. Gage claims he was unaware the Stevenson and Daweena Ajanian were involved in distributing methamphetamine as well as several acts of fraud.

- Stevenson who was known as "Sick Mike" apparently bragged about his affliation to the "Hell's Angels" motorcycle gang (in the UM segment it was mentioned he was in a gang called "The Forgotten Few") and was basically just a nutcase who targeted his fellow neighbors for extortion and flashed around his impressive collection of automatic weapons. In an interesting note according to Gage, the Hell's Angels wanted nothing to do with Stevenson considering him to be a "wannabe nut" - Stevenson was so fascinated by motorcycle gangs that he would often flash pictures of himself along with people who he claimed to be in the Hell's Angels in order to boost his street cred.

- In 1978 Stevenson and Ajanian were involved in the abduction and murder of a Los Gatos teen in order to steal his motorcycle (obviously this is Gus Hoffman) - Other crimes included Stevenson kidnapping two girls and holding them in a closet as his sex slaves. In another incident, Stevenson and Ms. Ajanian apparently used Gage's home while he was on vacation to take a young couple and a child hostage.

- Stevenson and Ms. Ajanian apparently convinced a lot of their victims to not to testify against them in court by threatening them with further violence, leveraging their victims to aide in participating in illegal acts with them and also claiming that they came from wealthy families who could hire top lawyers to get them out of any legal jam. Gage does conceed that both Stevenson and Ms. Ajanian were from "wealthy families".

- The reason Kenneth Gage is in prison to this day is because he murdered Ms. Ajanian after he found out that she and Stevenson were robbing him. Apparently Gage suspected the couple of stealing from him while he was on vacation (they claimed he was robbed by an unknown party) and began inquiring around about them. He learned of their sorted past which angered Ajanian. She threatened him and on 3-6-81, attacked him at his home following an argument - the two wrestled around the home, making a shambles of the inside of Gage's house while wrestling for Gage's revolver. Gage finally gained posession of the gun and shot Ajanian, killing her.

- Michael Stevenson was not involved in the altercation because he was still in jail for the hostage incident of which he was later freed. After his release he murdered a Stanislaus County man in a similar hostage related scheme and was himself killed in 1985 by one of his potential victims.

Kenneth Gage's petition for pardon can be found here:
http://freekengage.com/index.html

[AVERMAN]

This happened in San Jose

Do you know the way to San Jose?

[Zero]

Do you know the way to San Jose?

I do. :D

[Gangreen]

I love this case! just the way the mom puts everything on the line to go undercover.

[SiberianKiss]

memo to bikers...your culture is stupid, you're all nothing but white trash who think you're real cool cause your lame ass motorycycles go vroom vroom! your women are ugly too. The whole biker scene is pathetic, always has been.

did anyone see A Bronx Tale? I loved the part when the bikers go into the mafia hangout/restaurant and order some drinks, but then act all rowdy and mean to everybody, so the mafia guys lock the doors and kick all their asses, HA! Showed them who's boss.

I hate bikers

[Corky Kneivel]

memo to bikers...your culture is stupid, you're all nothing but white trash who think you're real cool cause your lame ass motorycycles go vroom vroom! your women are ugly too. The whole biker scene is pathetic, always has been.

I hate bikers


Slow your roll, Siberiankiss.


That's a very immature and negative view of a wide swath of people, people comprised of almost every race and culture on the planet. You may be speaking from some sort of personal experience dealing with bikers and perhaps it was a bad experience for you. Perhaps thats caused you to harbor such irresponsibly ignorant viewpoints and perhaps not, I would almost rather you had never had any negative experiences and just made it up absed on what you've seen on TV and in the news.


I don't know you aside from anything I've read from you, but to maintain a belief like what you expressed is juvenile at best and, to me, crystal clearly indicates you have had little experience with the world outside your little community.

[kadrmas15]

Well if Hoffman's killers got charged with first degree murder and got convicted if they didnt get death according to 1978 laws I believe the next available penalty was 7 years to life in prison since the laws that upped the penalty to 25 to life didnt take effect until 1979. Yes in California before 1979 if you were convicted of 1st degree murder and didnt get the DP the most severe penalty you could get after that was 7 years to life.

[SiberianKiss]

Slow your roll, Siberiankiss.


That's a very immature and negative view of a wide swath of people, people comprised of almost every race and culture on the planet. You may be speaking from some sort of personal experience dealing with bikers and perhaps it was a bad experience for you. Perhaps thats caused you to harbor such irresponsibly ignorant viewpoints and perhaps not, I would almost rather you had never had any negative experiences and just made it up absed on what you've seen on TV and in the news.


I don't know you aside from anything I've read from you, but to maintain a belief like what you expressed is juvenile at best and, to me, crystal clearly indicates you have had little experience with the world outside your little community.

VROOOOOM VROOOOOOOOM!:lol:

[Awsi Dooger]

memo to bikers...your culture is stupid, you're all nothing but white trash who think you're real cool cause your lame ass motorycycles go vroom vroom! your women are ugly too. The whole biker scene is pathetic, always has been.

did anyone see A Bronx Tale? I loved the part when the bikers go into the mafia hangout/restaurant and order some drinks, but then act all rowdy and mean to everybody, so the mafia guys lock the doors and kick all their asses, HA! Showed them who's boss.

I hate bikers

Michael Mageau was probably a biker at some point

[SiberianKiss]

Michael Mageau was probably a biker at some point

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[supersally1974]

Does anyone remember the young man who restored an older Harley Davidson motorcycle and when taking it on a test run some bikers cornered him on some street and he dissapeared? I want to say this story appeared on UM in the early 1990's?
The case you are refering to is available on YouTube.

It's a really, sad tragic case.:(

[Chris Billings]

Here is one of the SJ Mercury articles about this case, I live in San Jose area and have free access.
Chris


Paper: San Jose Mercury News (CA)
Title: HOFFMAN KILLERS GET LIFE TERMS VICTIM'S MOTHER SAYS SHE'LL
BATTLE PAROLE
Author: BILL ROMANO, Mercury News Staff Writer
Date: October 26, 1990
Section: Local
Page: 1B

Rose Hoffman, who spent nearly a decade tracking down her son's
killers, vowed Thursday to devote her remaining days to keeping them behind
bars.


During a tense hearing in Santa Clara County Superior Court that
included a vitriolic statement from Hoffman's husband, Judge Paul R. Teilh
sentenced the three men convicted in Gus Hoffman's kidnapping and torture
death to life in prison.Teilh also struck down special circumstance
allegations that would have prevented the defendants -- Richard Morris
Dollar, 34, Michael Allen Hodges, 38, and John Michael Stelle, 49 -- from
ever being paroled.


''They should have been given the gas chamber -- the very least, life
without possibility of parole," Rose Hoffman said outside the
courthouse. "I'll see that they stay in prison for the rest of their lives. I'll
be writing letters to the Board of Prison Terms whenever they come up
for parole. We have a few little rights ourselves."


During Thursday's hearing, seven sheriff's deputies stood guard in the
crowded courtroom for the final step in a case that has attracted
international media attention, largely because of Rose Hoffman's relentless
search through biker bars for the people who killed her 20-year-old
son, Gus.


Hoffman was abducted from a South San Jose street in daylight on July
4, 1978, while riding a vintage Harley- Davidson motorcycle. He was
taken to a home, where he was tortured and fatally beaten. Police said he
was kidnapped for his motorcycle. His body has never been found.


During the next decade, Rose Hoffman hired psychics and private
detectives, offered cash rewards in newspapers and visited the bars and
hangouts of biker gangs searching for leads that might help police. The case
was also featured on the television show, "Unsolved Mysteries." The
break came in 1987, when police located a witness.


The three men were arrested in 1988 and were found guilty in August of
first-degree murder, accompanied by a "special circumstance" allegation
of robbery and torture that made each subject to life in prison
without parole.


But on Thursday, defense attorneys successfully argued that there was
not enough evidence at the trial to support the special circumstance
charges. -- a decision that was greeted by moans from Hoffman's family and
by applause from onlookers supporting the three defendants, who smiled
and sighed with relief. During the three-hour hearing, Hoffman's
father, Augustus, spoke publicly for the first time about his son's death,
reading from a 15-page prepared statement.


''These guys gave no mercy to my son, who they so horribly tortured and
brutally murdered," he said. "These three deserve no mercy from this
court. Why should they have any mercy? They never gave any."


Augustus Hoffman, his voice wavering at times, pleaded with Teilh to
impose a harsh sentence: "We all believe that Hodges, Stelle and Dollar
deserve to live as long as they can hold their breath in the gas
chamber."


As on previous days, Thursday's proceedings were marked by moments of
tension and a high-level of security. At one point, Teilh admonished
spectators against demonstrations and told them they would be removed if
any outbursts occurred. James McNair Thompson, Dollar's lawyer, said
that although the prosecution case depended on the testimony of one key
witness, there was never any evidence of a murder weapon or testimony
about who was present at the beating.


Deputy District Attorney Don Shearer said the three men will be
eligible for release from prison at some point, but that their discharge will
be up to the state Department of Corrections. Because of the passage of
time between Hoffman's death and the arrests, Shearer did not seek the
death penalty.

Caption:
Photos (2)

[kadrmas15]

Well, that means that those 3 guys got terms of 25 years to life with the good time credit, that means that they had their first parole hearings after 17years, which means they had them last year I believe, or in 2005. Hopefully they never get out, especially Michael Hodges who I believe along with Michael Stephenson I believe his name was were the ones that actually beat Gus to death while Dollar and Stelle and many others assisted. Just tragic.

[CowboyStudTied]

I guess they bound him huh? how did he die?

[TracyLynnS]

I love the dad's quote:

"We all believe that Hodges, Stelle and Dollar
deserve to live as long as they can hold their breath in the gas
chamber."

[kadrmas15]

Well I will say, even if any of them would have got the death penalty, they would be still alive, the state certainly would not have killed them. California has what in my opinion is the most dysfunctional death penalty system out of any state that has it. I am not a supporter of the death penalty but I believe if a state insists on having it they should make sure it functions properly. California either cant or wont do this. Because of this all it really does is makes the victims pain worse, wondering what will happen, when will it happen, if it will happen. California has at least 670 people on their death row. Since the death penalty was re-instated in California in 1978, 13 inmates have been 'executed' while at least 40 death row inmates have died from natural causes and at least 15 have died from suicide. One of the more infamous ones to die from natural causes is serial killer Bill Bradford who died of natural causes last year after 20 years on death row.

That said, I would hope none of these men, especially Hodges would ever get out. In California, prisoners can have parole hearings anywhere from every year to every 5 years depending on their classification in terms of whether they are a maximum security prisoner or a high medium security prisoner. In California, the lowest classification a lifer, especially a lifer convicted of murder can get is high medium. I would say it is very unlikely that any of these men would get out of prison, especially if they continue to insist that they did not do it and had nothing to do with it. In California, the chances of any lifer getting paroled is slim at best and the only slim chance any lifer has is if they admit to the crime and at least act like they are remorseful. Now under Arnold Schwarzenneger's parole board, over 1,000 life inmates have been given parole dates, however the actual number that have been released is about 30 percent of that. California is one of three states where the Governor has the authority to overrule his own parole board's decisions. Arnold has approved two hundred something life inmates for parole or has allowed them to parole without intervening one way or another, the federal and state courts have also ruled that certain lifers be released. In California, the Governor can either overturn the parole recommendation, let a person be paroled without either approving or disapproving it or he can formally approve it or he can send a case back to the parole board for further review.

[HHorseman]

Siberian Kiss if your still posting grow up abit, I grew up around Bikers almost my whole life and theyve always been cool with me.

TracyLynn-I never got why they beat him to death just for his Bike, never made much sense.

[TracyLynnS]

Siberian Kiss if your still posting grow up abit, I grew up around Bikers almost my whole life and theyve always been cool with me.

TracyLynn-I never got why they beat him to death just for his Bike, never made much sense.

From what I remember, they liked doing crap like that for the thrill of it. I wish they had gotten the sentence that Dad asked for. They needed it carried out ASAP.

Gus had worked hard on his bike to fix it up... it was was an accomplishment to be proud of. It wasn't like he'd just gone out and bought some generic bike. This bike was priceless to him because of the hard work he an put into it.

And what really pissed me off about the whole thing was that the lazy ass bikers/druggies/whatever they were, didn't have what it took to work hard for something they wanted, like Gus had done. Instead, they mercilessly tortured and murdered an innocent kid just to take his one prized possession.

Maybe that's one reason they killed him. They were jealous because at only 20 years old, he had already surpassed the abilities of every one of them when it came to rebuilding and restoring bikes. He was the real deal, and they were only drunken posers. And they knew it.

But then, drugged up people do stupid things for reasons that never make sense.

[TracyLynnS]

Oh, and on siberian's subject of all bikers being bad.

Biker GANGS, yes. My uncle belonged to a gang for years and I know a whole lot of disgusting stuff about them.

But just last night DH and I were out and we saw a husband and wife each riding their harleys.

They were soooooo cute! The wife's leathers were super spiffy. Her jacket was pink and black and was in a retro 50's style. She had her blonde hair put up in a pony tail with a pink scarf tied to it.

And they were both in their late 60s!!! They were granny and pa out riding their harleys on saturday night. lol :cool:

[HHorseman]

From what I remember, they liked doing crap like that for the thrill of it. I wish they had gotten the sentence that Dad asked for. They needed it carried out ASAP.

Gus had worked hard on his bike to fix it up... it was was an accomplishment to be proud of. It wasn't like he'd just gone out and bought some generic bike. This bike was priceless to him because of the hard work he an put into it.

And what really pissed me off about the whole thing was that the lazy ass bikers/druggies/whatever they were, didn't have what it took to work hard for something they wanted, like Gus had done. Instead, they mercilessly tortured and murdered an innocent kid just to take his one prized possession.

Maybe that's one reason they killed him. They were jealous because at only 20 years old, he had already surpassed the abilities of every one of them when it came to rebuilding and restoring bikes. He was the real deal, and they were only drunken posers. And they knew it.

But then, drugged up people do stupid things for reasons that never make sense.

Proper Bike Clubs like the HA or Outlaws wouldnt have done something that petty as kill a kid for his Bike.

[HHorseman]

Oh, and on siberian's subject of all bikers being bad.

Biker GANGS, yes. My uncle belonged to a gang for years and I know a whole lot of disgusting stuff about them.

But just last night DH and I were out and we saw a husband and wife each riding their harleys.

They were soooooo cute! The wife's leathers were super spiffy. Her jacket was pink and black and was in a retro 50's style. She had her blonde hair put up in a pony tail with a pink scarf tied to it.

And they were both in their late 60s!!! They were granny and pa out riding their harleys on saturday night. lol :cool:

Oh really which club was he with, I like how Bikes give people their own independence, I hope oneday if im lucky and in my 80's im still out their riding,ive known people in their 90's still riding.

[TracyLynnS]

Oh really which club was he with, I like how Bikes give people their own independence, I hope oneday if im lucky and in my 80's im still out their riding,ive known people in their 90's still riding.

I don't know the name of the gang my uncle was in. But it was criminal gang, not a club. They were from detroit.

We drove by the older couple with their harleys the other night too fast to see if they had their club ID anywhere on their stuff or if they were just two folks living their harley dreams without officially belonging to a club.

Kind of a funny story: Last year we were driving down the expressway in the Detroit burbs when this biker, about 35 years old, rode past us.

He was no weekender, he was serious. He had long hair, was wearing a leather vest that had his club info embroidered all on the back (can't remember what club though), his arms were covered in tattoos, the bike had leather fringe everywhere, etc.

Basically, this guy looked like every mean, scary, dangerous biker stereotype you've ever heard of. Then my teenage daughter turns to me with a big smile and says, "Hey! I think I know that guy!"

:faint:

[HHorseman]

I don't know the name of the gang my uncle was in. But it was criminal gang, not a club. They were from detroit.

We drove by the older couple with their harleys the other night too fast to see if they had their club ID anywhere on their stuff or if they were just two folks living their harley dreams without officially belonging to a club.

Kind of a funny story: Last year we were driving down the expressway in the Detroit burbs when this biker, about 35 years old, rode past us.

He was no weekender, he was serious. He had long hair, was wearing a leather vest that had his club info embroidered all on the back (can't remember what club though), his arms were covered in tattoos, the bike had leather fringe everywhere, etc.

Basically, this guy looked like every mean, scary, dangerous biker stereotype you've ever heard of. Then my teenage daughter turns to me with a big smile and says, "Hey! I think I know that guy!"

:faint:

Oh yeah I knew Detroit use to be heck of alot more dangerous then it is these days. Lol! its easy to think just because a guy has tattoos and is big hed be scary but beleive me some of the toughest Bikers just look like regular looking people you wouldnt have a clue they were Bikers.

[Drakken]

Proper Bike Clubs like the HA or Outlaws wouldnt have done something that petty as kill a kid for his Bike.

Weren't Stevenson and his gang wannabee bikers, or at most prospects, and biker gangs didn't want to be associated too closely with them because they were loose cannons?

[SiberianKiss]

Nothing has changed.

Bikers still suck.

PS - The board just isn't fun without Awsi.

[HHorseman]

Weren't Stevenson and his gang wannabee bikers, or at most prospects, and biker gangs didn't want to be associated too closely with them because they were loose cannons?

No your dead right they wouldnt have its bad for buisness,same deal with the Colorado Cop Killers the local Miltia's didnt want them around because they were to violent.

[sdb4884]

Bikers seem more murderous than they do here in Australia.

[Odie28]

To everyone,

First off bikers do not suck and people who ride are not all criminals. There are a select few who take it to the extreme and give the whole soceity of the biker image a bad rap.

And sencondly alot of you on here talk a big game about a murder that happened in the 70's with court proceedings in the late 80's. most of you have no idea what happen then and are just repeating what others are saying. Yes the young man was murder and 3 men went to prison for it and got 7 years to life. but what you didnt hear about was there was no evidence just hear say from a UNCREDIBLE witness and how the San Jose Police Department also hid a witness because is was damaging to the Prosecutors case.

I understand that murder is murder and someone should pay for but i also believe that it is our duty as American Citizens that we make sure that the RIGHT people get punished for those crimes.

[nohwheregirl]

To everyone,

First off bikers do not suck and people who ride are not all criminals. There are a select few who take it to the extreme and give the whole soceity of the biker image a bad rap.

And sencondly alot of you on here talk a big game about a murder that happened in the 70's with court proceedings in the late 80's. most of you have no idea what happen then and are just repeating what others are saying. Yes the young man was murder and 3 men went to prison for it and got 7 years to life. but what you didnt hear about was there was no evidence just hear say from a UNCREDIBLE witness and how the San Jose Police Department also hid a witness because is was damaging to the Prosecutors case.

I understand that murder is murder and someone should pay for but i also believe that it is our duty as American Citizens that we make sure that the RIGHT people get punished for those crimes.
It sounds like you're pretty familiar with the case. Can you tell us more about the evidence in favor of those who were convicted?

I agree that the vast majority of bikers are good, regular folks. I was in Milwaukee for the Harley Davidson 100th Anniversary, and there have probably never been so many bikers in one place in history! Everyone I met was super nice and good time was had by all. Sorry, bikers...I'm ruining your street cred!

[TracyLynnS]

First off bikers do not suck and people who ride are not all criminals.

Yep, this is pretty much my opinion too. Aside from my uncle's gang of criminals who just happened to be bikers, I've never had a bad experience.

From 2007 to 2009, I lived about 200 feet from M36 in michigan, which is the main road that bikers take from the expressway when they make their weekend trips to Hell.

All up and down the road was nothing but big groups of bikers traveling at the speed limit and not causing any trouble. There was never an incident in 2 years and there were hundreds of bikers on that road every weekend during the summers.

Once they got to Hell, they hung out at their primary destination, the Dam Site Inn. And let me rant for a second here... since michigan banned smoking in restaurants and bars, it is a pitiful sight to see a bunch of bikers standing outside in the parking lot of a bar just to have a smoke. (I'm a non-smoker but that law bugs me. No smoking in bars! Who the heck thought that was a good idea!?)

Where I'm living now, (my momma's basement! lol) my next door neighbor is a life long biker. He's in his 60s now, and in bad health. He's so poor, he's been living in the converted tack room of a barn for 30 years, but he still gets out on his bike whenever he can.

I've known him for 20 years. Because of his finances and his health, one of our neighbors pays for him to have cable TV and his motorcycle club provides him with a cell phone and pays for his cellular service in addition to helping him out in other ways. When they come over to visit him, the are friendly, never loud, and never cause any trouble. Just a lot of nice folks hanging out with and taking care of their "brother" however they can.

[HHorseman]

Bikers seem more murderous than they do here in Australia.
Do the Bandidos MC not still have chapters in Oz they did back in 85

[HHorseman]

To everyone,

First off bikers do not suck and people who ride are not all criminals. There are a select few who take it to the extreme and give the whole soceity of the biker image a bad rap.

And sencondly alot of you on here talk a big game about a murder that happened in the 70's with court proceedings in the late 80's. most of you have no idea what happen then and are just repeating what others are saying. Yes the young man was murder and 3 men went to prison for it and got 7 years to life. but what you didnt hear about was there was no evidence just hear say from a UNCREDIBLE witness and how the San Jose Police Department also hid a witness because is was damaging to the Prosecutors case.

I understand that murder is murder and someone should pay for but i also believe that it is our duty as American Citizens that we make sure that the RIGHT people get punished for those crimes.
Hey you outta be directing this where it belongs that idiot poster Siberian Kiss the only one that was talking junk about Bikers.My dads a biker I think I got a pretty good idea about how Bikers are stereo typed by people that know everything about nothing.