Dale Kerstetter

[greatgarrett2]

Greetings,

As you all know Dale Kerstetter is the man who disappeared from a Bradford, PA Platinum Plant in 1987. The events surrounding and the disappearance itself I'm split 50/50 on. This case has been discussed on the forum before.

What do you think? Was he himself abducted or was he a co-conspirator?

The way he looked at the security camera had me thinking this guy could be saying "Hey, look at me, I'm taking your platinum and there's not a thing you can do about it." But the other half of me thinks, why would he leave a secure job and all his social supports?

Abducted?

Or, Co-conspirator?

[peachysquirt21]

I'm not sure about this one. If I remember right, it was brought up that he had gotten a pay cut & was not all too happy about it. I guess that could be a reason to get pissed at the company & come up with something like this then again not. I really cannot understand why anyone would wanna leave there family behind & stage something like this. I do wish we could have seen the original security tape.

[Tighthead]

I find this one fascinating. I go with co-conspirator, who was then killed for no longer being necessary - why cut the pie too many ways.

[wiseguy182]

Tighthead has a good theory, that Dale was both in on it and abducted - distinctly possible. I voted for that I thought he was abducted, but I wouldn't be totally suprised if it was the other way around. This is one of the ones I'm kinda split 50/50 on, and it was one of the segments I mentioned in my 50/50 thread I started awhile back. In fact, this clip is one of the ones tied for first place in that thread, meaning that it was one of the segments that the most posters were tied 50/50 on. So this could be a close race. No doubt one of the classic cases and one that leaves you thinking.

The reason I voted for that I thought he was abducted was that he was a lifelong member of the community, and had worked for the plant for several decades I believe. He was also instrumental in saving somebody's life and some equipment I believe the segment stated. I just find it a little hard to believe that the man would build up a reputation his whole life and then shatter it one night out of the blue, leaving his family, job and community behind.

[Awsi Dooger]

Well, I don't even remember what I posted regarding this case previously.

crystaldawn, you may be right about me. :lol:

At least this time I understand why it says I already voted.

He seemed like a simple guy who wouldn't have been clever or ambitious or desperate enough to pull a stunt like this, even as a cohort. But I wouldn't be surprised if he talked too much or answered too many questions, from people who were looking to rob the place and correctly identified Kerstetter as a vulnerable target.

[kadrmas15]

I honestly dont know what to think about this case either. There are so many unanswered questions. As far as Kerstetter not being clever enough a lot of small town people and factory workers seem this way but in fact are a lot smarter and saavy than they appear. One thing is for sure, Kerstetter would have had the motive to steal the platinum. As they said in the interview, Kerstetter was not a happy man at the time he disappeared. Kerstetter had been transferred from the shop section of the plant to security which caused him to take a 5 to 7 thousand dollar a year pay cut. Kerstetter also might have felt a lot of personal pressure and might have been desperate to escape from his life because not only had he taken a paycut but was 30 to 40 grand in debt on various bills that he could not pay. What also got me was how Kerstetter's son whom lived with Kerstetter still said that he didnt think his dad would have been involved in the theft but then in the same sentence did an about face and said if he did it that he would come back in 7 years when the statute of limitations expired and they wouldnt be able to touch him. That stuck with me and told me perhaps the son knows more about this than what he is saying. Also the unusual locations where Kerstetter's son said that Kerstetter would have fled to had he been involved. How we have any way of knowing that unless Kerstetter had talked about it previously? It seemed the bosses at the plant didnt think too highly of Kerstetter. Usually after someone has disappeared the person could be a total scumbag and people will talk pretty highly of them. I was surprised to hear one of the bosses at the plant refer to Kerstetter as a marginal employee. About how they had problems with him in the past. I doubt very much that Kerstetter was surprised by an intruder and was abducted. I do however think it is also possible that Kerstetter could have been in on it and then after the heist was murdered when his co conspirator or co conspirators got greedy and figured why share when they could have the whole thing. I have also wondered if Kerstetters son could have been involved either indirectly or directly in this. His demeanor just told me he knows more than what he is saying. Maybe it just me being paranoid, who knows? Just a theory though.

[wiseguy182]

Another reason I tend to lean that Dale was abducted and subsequently murdered was that he probably would have resurfaced by now for two reasons: the statute of limitations expiring and him missing his family. He definintely appeared to be a family man. Given that the intruder seemed to know where to go, I would imagine it was either a past or current employee. I do agree, however, that the son seemed a little shady. The rest of his family appeared legitimately concerned, unless they're doing a really good acting job.

[kadrmas15]

Well I agree with you there that the guy with the mask either was a current or former employee of the plant. He simply knew where everything was and moved around so fast he had been in that building many times before. The reason why I think Kerstetter might have been in on it is because I am sure over night they locked the doors of the plant so someone could not get in from the outside. That leads me to believe that Kersetter possibly let the person in. However that is also troubling that if he did participate and it and wasnt killed why he didnt come back when the statue of limitations was up? However I do find that really odd how is son seemed to know what his dad would do had he done it, how he would know about the statue of limitations and other things. I just have that feeling from the son that he knows more about all of this than he is letting on. I have the feeling the chances are better than not that Kersetter was involved. Just the way he talked to the masked man. About how they seemed to be conversing like they knew each other more than the masked man shouting demands. It didnt look like there was any evidence that the masked man had a weapon.

[ForeverPluto]

I saw this seggie too. I don't see Dale being killed because to me that would be too much work...too much work to deal with taking al the platinum and a dead body. I think Dale and maybe some other ticked off employee were in on all of it. As for him still being alive, I'm not sure. I think maybe the accomplice might have turned on Dale and killed him after the fact. That would probably explain why no one has heard from him since????

[mikem7715]

i think if alive,he would have come back after statute of limitations was up,unless he was to ashamed to face his family

[ForeverPluto]

i think if alive,he would have come back after statute of limitations was up,unless he was to ashamed to face his family
well maybe not his son. I always thought it was a little strange that his son made that quip about him going to Australia or Canada and coming back after the statute of limitations are up???????? very weird...

[wiseguy182]

The more time passes, the more I think Dale is innocent. I got a bad vibe off of the employer guy. Why would he call Dale a marginal employee? A person that is a marginal employee doesn't last 27 years at a job, nor do they get put in a security guard position. At least they shouldn't. Plus, this was the guy that saved lives on the job, and a high amount in merchandise, and risked his life in the process.

[SP4CE INV4DERZ]

The more time passes, the more I think Dale is innocent. I got a bad vibe off of the employer guy. Why would he call Dale a marginal employee? A person that is a marginal employee doesn't last 27 years at a job, nor do they get put in a security guard position. At least they shouldn't. Plus, this was the guy that saved lives on the job, and a high amount in merchandise, and risked his life in the process.

lol again of course I perhaps lean the other way. Still I'm really not sure what exactly happened to Dale. His actions on the videotape are questionable of an innocent person but if he was in on it, why hasn't he returned or contacted his family that we know of. So one question I'd really like answered is where is Dale Kerstetter?

Also I guess during the 27 years he worked I assume it was easy to get hired and fired from a job in those days so it's a good point you raise there about a marginal employee lasting that long. Then again, maybe he had a aweful lot of time to think about things... who knows?

One thing for sure, it's definately one of the best UM cases!

[JacopoBelbo]

I was Dale's son-in-law, and while I have not had any contact with anyone in the family since his daughter I separated shortly before the incident occurred, I often think about Dale and the family and wonder what did, in fact, occur that day.

Dale was an outdoorsman. He camped and fished, and probably preferred isolation over kinship (unless there was drink involved). That was just my impression. When his daughter and I would visit from the D.C. area we would often meet at his favorite watering hole south of Bradford. On at least one occasion he joked about leaving everything behind and moving to a remote, uninhabited region of Canada. I have not seen the episode since it originally aired but apparently Al (his son) mentioned something about this also, but their discussion would have occurred at another time as ours took place in a bar. Very interesting. I remember thinking that that was an odd comment but I neglected to discuss it further. But perhaps germane to my recollection of what occurred is the fact that he did have at least one friend who was involved in ventures unknown. He appeared to be financially secure, yet he could not reasonably account (perhaps because he did not feel compelled to do so) for how he came about his financial success. This friend wore a Rolex and supported a young woman and her daughter in his fairly large house with an elevator while Dale lived in a trailer with little heat in the frigid Pennsylvania winters. This brush with success while not his own may have been causal in leading Dale down the path of felonious activity, but I cannot say for sure. It’s just something I’ve always comfortably pondered as I’ve always preferred to think of him as a “co-conspirator” and not as a victim.

I’m fairly certain that his son has no knowledge of the details of what occurred, nor would any of his family members.

[UMfan0682]

Wow, thanks for posting JacopoBelbo! Yes, this is a popular UM segments here on the boards. I've always been 50/50 on this case. Dale seemed like a really good person, and as his kids had said in the interviews that money would not be a motive, I've always thought of how tempting a crate of platinum would be. When UM created the security camera footage, and Dale looks right into the camera, it always looked like to me he was sending a message that he was going to be rich in a few hours...

[crystaldawn]

Yes that was some very interesting insight JacopoBelbo. I have always figured that Dale was abducted but your comments make me think there's a possibility he could have been in on it. They state that Dale was in arrears several thousand dollars yet his daughter claimed he had stock in Corning and other different sources he could obtain money so that sort of contradicts itself. It makes me wonder if him and his son had a similar discussion than you had with Dale as he was very specific in stating that his dad was probably hiding out in Canada or Australia and would come back when the statute of limitations expired. His smiling and calm demeanor makes me wonder if maybe Dale's son knew something the other family members didn't. Its always great to have someone who knew the person profiled's comments so if there's anything else you want to share, feel free.

[JacopoBelbo]

Yes that was some very interesting insight JacopoBelbo. I have always figured that Dale was abducted but your comments make me think there's a possibility he could have been in on it. They state that Dale was in arrears several thousand dollars yet his daughter claimed he had stock in Corning and other different sources he could obtain money so that sort of contradicts itself. It makes me wonder if him and his son had a similar discussion than you had with Dale as he was very specific in stating that his dad was probably hiding out in Canada or Australia and would come back when the statute of limitations expired. His smiling and calm demeanor makes me wonder if maybe Dale's son knew something the other family members didn't. Its always great to have someone who knew the person profiled's comments so if there's anything else you want to share, feel free.


Al's demeanor could probably be attributed to his strong belief that his father was capable of partaking in this, and therefore he was hopeful that someday he would return, but there's probably no way that he was aware of details either before or after.

If I think of any other details I'll keep you posted.

[kadrmas15]

Hmm, interesting posting. Yes this case is a tough one to figure out what happened. Was Kerstetter a victim? Was he in on it and then murdered afterward when his accomplice wanted the loot for himself? Is Kerstetter still alive living comfortably somewhere unknown?

The security camera footage I found to be interesting. With Dale looking up into the camera the way he did, I do not know why he would do that unless he was flaunting his crime.

In my opinion Kerstetter either told the masked man where to go to get the platinum and had directed him towards tools and stuff or the masked man had at one time worked at the plant. In my opinion the sack on the manual forklift was the sack with the platinum in it.

I did find Kerstetter's son's demeanor and comments to be unusual but maybe Dale as his former son in law has suggested might have just said to his son in casual conversation about how he would like to get away to Canada or Austrailia or something?

What I would be curious about is how would the masked man even get in the plant? I am assuming the plant doors would be locked from the outside, so that makes me believe that Kerstetter let the man in but of course no one knows exactly how that went down.

The Keys under the newspaper and the lunch pail full of food tells me that this crime probably went down before the mid point of Kerstetter's shift since usually from what I have seen people tend to eat half way through their shift. Kerstetter leaving his truck behind is not suscipicious I do not think although I do find it odd he wouldnt take his cigarettes with him since according to the segment he was a heavy smoker. However his .22 caliber pistol was gone, so Kerstetter could have used it on this masked man if in fact Kerstetter was not in on the plot or if Kerstetter wasnt in on the plot and didnt have his gun with him the masked man might have known he had it and stolen it out of the holster to keep Kerstetter in control.

At one point on the security camera when you see the two talking and then they start to walk, it does look like the masked man has something pointed into Kerstetter's back although it is hard to see and you can really only see for a brief second.

[RightOnDude]

If I had to guess:

Guy comes in to rob the place, points gun at Dale.

Dale says, "Hey, take what you want, I'm a marginal employee and I'm not risking my neck over this platinum. Not like I'll ever see a dime of it. Heck I'll even show you where it is and act like I'm being held hostage if I can get in on the action!"

Guy agrees, gets the platinum, walks out with Dale shielding him from the camera somewhat

When it's all over he, sadly, "offs" Dale

platinum is melted into jewelry and sold to rappers nationwide

[moneypenny10]

I can not believe I just stumbled upon this site! I am one of Dale's daughters, the ex-wife of the son-in-law who has posted. J- thank you for your insight and opinion. Your description of my father is accurate; I appreciate that you remember him so and that you have pondered this mystery over the years.

The son - For those of you who question my brother's knowledge of the event, Al did not know anything of this caper; at the time he was simply a very young man (16 years old) who abruptly lost his idol. His on air comments were precipitated by his need to believe that his father would be back in his life; it was easier for Al to believe he was involved and therefore still alive and able to return one day.

Motive - While the show may have tried to depict a man with a financial motive, and it was true he took a large paycut to keep his job as the plant was cutting back, Dale was a very simple man and did not require significant financial means to survive. He was $30k in debt, as is anyone else who has a mortgage, so I think that the debt issue was sensationalized for the plant's benefit in the segment. I can tell you that my father owned a fair amount of Corning stock as well as several investment/retirement funds and life insurance policies that all could have been cashed in which makes it difficult to believe money was a motive, thus my comment in the show about having financial means available to him. As earlier posts have pointed out, you would need a market for this platinum and the PA State Police thoroughly checked out all legitimate avenues for selling such a commodity. You must remember, many people worked at that plant over the years, my father was one of hundreds who knew the platinum was there. It wasn't a secret to anyone in Bradford, Pa!

Dad was a typical, old-school, blue collar plant employee; do what you are paid to do and expected to do, nothing more, nothing less. I suppose that could qualify him as a marginal employee. He did not have any reason to "have it out" with the plant, the plant provided for a family with six kids for many, many years (and stock options, which he exercised).

About 15 years ago, I hired a retired FBI regional director-turned lawyer to assist me in the endeavor of declaring him legally dead; while the statute of limitations had passed, as you can imagine, in this bizarre situation, it is nearly impossible. For the record, none of the family has ever collected on any of his financial assets.

The security tape - I saw the entire tape. You saw what I saw - was he quietly signaling for help or flaunting his crime? There was nothing else on the tape that would offer you an opinion one way or another. I knew that man like the back of my hand and to this day I still cannot make up my mind as to what he is conveying in that frame of film.

The gun - my father would secure the entire plant by himself at night (he was a journeyman at the plant by day and did the security detail on the nightshift for the overtime) and he confided to me on one occasion that he would not be alone in that huge building by himself with no protection. When I would come home to visit him, my friends and I would simply walk in the front door of the plant to greet him in the middle of the night. If he wasn't at the guard post, we would just walk around the plant calling his name while he did his rounds. Anyone could have done it. The plant knew he carried a gun; it wasn't sanctioned by the plant but no one ever told him to leave it at home. The gun has never been found.

I can proudly tell you that he was a wonderful father who was extremely well liked and respected by many in the small town community he called home all his life.

I can sadly tell you that none of the family has ever had any contact with Dale or anyone who has been able to shed any light on this one way or another. It is indeed an unsolved mystery that his six children have pondered over for twenty plus years. We have conceded to the fact that we will never know.

[wiseguy182]

I can not believe I just stumbled upon this site! I am one of Dale's daughters, the ex-wife of the son-in-law who has posted. J- thank you for your insight and opinion. Your description of my father is accurate; I appreciate that you remember him so and that you have pondered this mystery over the years.

The son - For those of you who question my brother's knowledge of the event, Al did not know anything of this caper; at the time he was simply a very young man (16 years old) who abruptly lost his idol. His on air comments were precipitated by his need to believe that his father would be back in his life; it was easier for Al to believe he was involved and therefore still alive and able to return one day.

Motive - While the show may have tried to depict a man with a financial motive, and it was true he took a large paycut to keep his job as the plant was cutting back, Dale was a very simple man and did not require significant financial means to survive. He was $30k in debt, as is anyone else who has a mortgage, so I think that the debt issue was sensationalized for the plant's benefit in the segment. I can tell you that my father owned a fair amount of Corning stock as well as several investment/retirement funds and life insurance policies that all could have been cashed in which makes it difficult to believe money was a motive, thus my comment in the show about having financial means available to him. As earlier posts have pointed out, you would need a market for this platinum and the PA State Police thoroughly checked out all legitimate avenues for selling such a commodity. You must remember, many people worked at that plant over the years, my father was one of hundreds who knew the platinum was there. It wasn't a secret to anyone in Bradford, Pa!

Dad was a typical, old-school, blue collar plant employee; do what you are paid to do and expected to do, nothing more, nothing less. I suppose that could qualify him as a marginal employee. He did not have any reason to "have it out" with the plant, the plant provided for a family with six kids for many, many years (and stock options, which he exercised).

About 15 years ago, I hired a retired FBI regional director-turned lawyer to assist me in the endeavor of declaring him legally dead; while the statute of limitations had passed, as you can imagine, in this bizarre situation, it is nearly impossible. For the record, none of the family has ever collected on any of his financial assets.

The security tape - I saw the entire tape. You saw what I saw - was he quietly signaling for help or flaunting his crime? There was nothing else on the tape that would offer you an opinion one way or another. I knew that man like the back of my hand and to this day I still cannot make up my mind as to what he is conveying in that frame of film.

The gun - my father would secure the entire plant by himself at night (he was a journeyman at the plant by day and did the security detail on the nightshift for the overtime) and he confided to me on one occasion that he would not be alone in that huge building by himself with no protection. When I would come home to visit him, my friends and I would simply walk in the front door of the plant to greet him in the middle of the night. If he wasn't at the guard post, we would just walk around the plant calling his name while he did his rounds. Anyone could have done it. The plant knew he carried a gun; it wasn't sanctioned by the plant but no one ever told him to leave it at home. The gun has never been found.

I can proudly tell you that he was a wonderful father who was extremely well liked and respected by many in the small town community he called home all his life.

I can sadly tell you that none of the family has ever had any contact with Dale or anyone who has been able to shed any light on this one way or another. It is indeed an unsolved mystery that his six children have pondered over for twenty plus years. We have conceded to the fact that we will never know.

thank you for posting, moneypenny10. I sincerely wish the best for you and your family.

your father was much better than a marginal employee. anyone that risks their life to save the lives of coworkers is a hero, the representative of Corning that was interviewed on the segment didn't seem to know what he was talking about, calling Dale a marginal employee. And next month I am getting my degree which has a focus on human resources management, so I think I'm qualified to make that statement.

I believe that Dale was a victim (which is unfortunate) and that he would not do this to his family, commuity and employer.

Sometimes we like to examine all sides of a particular case, just to present all possible theories, but judging from the results of the poll at the top of this page, it appears that the overwhelming majority of us think Dale has not committed a crime.

Please feel free to post again, we would love to hear anything else you have to say.

[crystaldawn]

Great to have you posting here moneypenny10! For what its worth I have never thought that your father took off with any ill gotten gains. He obviously knew where the security cameras were and I believe his looking into them was a cry for help. If he was going to steal something, it makes more sense that he would go out of his way to avoid the camera. One question I have though: I always figured that it was a current or ex-employee who stole the platinum and who was walking with your father on the footage. Was there any current employees who disappeared abruptly around the time of the theft or any former and possibly disgruntled ex-employees that police were looking at that may have left the area or suddenly seem to come into a lot of money at the time of the theft?

As far as your brother, granted his smiling on the camera did seem a bit suprising but I always got the impression that he was in denial that his father was now gone and possibly wasn't coming back. I didn't realize he was so young in the UM segment.

Any thing you can think of to post, we're all ears.

[peachysquirt21]

Hi moneypenny10. great to see one of Dale's family members posting here. First I wanna say I am so sorry you & your family have had to go all these years not knowing what happened to your dad. I can't even imagine having to try & deal with something like this day to day & to go all these years wondering what happened.

Your ex had mentioned in his post about a guy that Dale was friends with. From his description of this guy, he seems to be on the shady side. Have you ever met this person? Did your dad ever talk about this person?

After reading his post it got me to thinking where was this guy when this incident of your dad going missing took place. If he just up & dissappeared shortly after your dad went missing, I be looking at him as a suspect or maybe he hired someone to steal the platinum.

Also do you know why Unsolved Mysteries didn't show the original security tapes? I have wondered why they didn't show the originals.

[moneypenny10]

Thank you for all of your kind words! I am sharing this site with my family so they, too, can offer their insight. Feel free to ask me questions, it was so long ago your questions jog certain memories about it.

While they hired a local actor to portray Dad in the segment, I thought they showed a brief clip from the actual security tape. I do have an original copy that UM kindly gave to me but in VHS format and my VCR has gone to techno heaven with my cassette player so, alas, I cannot go back and watch it again for you. Any idea if I can watch it online somehow? The man shown with him in the tape I did not recognize; he had on a ski mask but after agonizing over it watching it repeatedly I could not honestly say I had any idea who it was. There wasn't anyone in the town, much less a plant employee, that was missing or suspect in this incident.

The friend of my father, the wealthy man my ex referred to, moved to Florida about the same time, which I always thought was a questionable coincidence. My dad helped him out of a major jam with the law, actually hid him out for a while, with suitcases full of cash not clothes. So I think he was loyal to my dad. I called him and pressured him, but he didn't appear to have any info on this at all. He knew how close I was to my father and I really think he would have told me if he knew something. He was, however, someone that I would certainly not hesitate to call if I was trying to put together a "shady" or "gray" deal; he made alot of money doing this type of thing and always seemed to know somebody who knew somebody. Another piece to the puzzle!

So I'll give you another - in 1992 the PA State Police called me because they thought the FL State Police may have found dad's body(!) but it was missing the head and the hands. They took x-rays from a knee surgery that he had had done years before to compare. The doctor that performed the surgery compared the x-ray from the found body to dad's and declared they were not the same. Shortly thereafter, this same doctor ends up running from law, I can't honestly remember why, I think he tried to kill his ultra rich wife or something, and he is found, on a fluke, in Canada during the Winter Olympics! Guess who else had seen this doctor? Yep, rich man in FL who owed my dad a favor, to say the least.

Maybe I am trying too hard at 6 degrees here, but always seemed like more than coincidence to me. I don't even know if that guy is still alive. And, Dale would be 70 this year. He was in good overall physical health, not overweight, no health problems, but smoked a pack a day and liked his whiskey. I often think maybe he thought of coming back someday, but all of us kids have since moved, he wouldn't even know how to contact any of us. I can assure you he would not own a computer! Maybe he was on the run and intended to return after so many years but just got old and died. I know, that is sad, but better than thinking of other ways he might have met his demise.

[kadrmas15]

Hey Moneypenny, well thanks for posting here, I am sorry about your dad's loss and while it is unlikely I hope you and your family can get some answers one way or the other on what happened to him and why.

Very interesting story on the guy in Florida! Sadly that could have been your dad's body, it seems someone was trying very hard to prevent the body from being identified, thus the cutting off of the head and hands. Then the sleazy doctor going and running off, it could have been him but I guess it will never be known if the body was Dale's?

What surprised me in the unsolved mysteries segment the first time I watched it, was the personell manager of the plant calling Dale a "marginal employee." I mean he was talking about a guy that was missing, it seems the plant managers thought that Dale was the one behind the theft.

I am assuming also that your grandmother has passed away since the Unsolved Mysteries segment was filmed? Sad that she passed away without ever finding out what happened to Dale.

[greatgarrett2]

hey moneypenny10! My condolensces go out to you and your family on having lost someone you loved and cared for deeply.

I originally was split 50/50 on this, but after reading all these sincere posts, and given his life circumstances (loyal to the plant), I'm starting to think why would he look straight into the security camera if he WAS involved?

I tend to think that might have been a cry for help. Judging from the posts I've read on here and the feedback, I'm sure he was a humble, simple nice guy.

And, like wiseguy said, anyone that risks their life to save the lives of co-workers is a hero.

[moneypenny10]

You are correct, he was a very humble and simple guy, probably about as low maintenance and low tech as you could get! He was extremely generous; a family with a half dozen kids like ours that lived in the same trailer park where my father did suffered a catasrophic blow when the father, the sole breadwinner, was so severely injured in an accident that he was in a wheelchair and suffered head trauma with no hope of recovery. I can assure you that Dale made sure those kids never went hungry.

The most impressive memory of my father is that he was a man that you could never impress; he saw you for what you were, not what you had. His circle of friends was very diverse culturally and financially. While he knew enough to plan financially for the future, in the grand scheme of things, money meant nothing to him.

That is the main reason it doesn't make sense that he would do this. To tell him he'd come into some quick big cash for his role in a scheme like this would do nothing for him. But if you told him you had some crazy idea and could show him how it was foolproof, I can see him saying "count me in".

However this man had a collection for Fortune and Money magazines that rivaled his collection of western novels . . . . he could tell you on any given day if the Dow was up or down.

Yes, Grammie died in 1991 without any closure to this.

[Todd Mueller]

WOW!

Moneypenny - like others have said, thanks for posting here! It is cool to hear all of this extra info from you. I also express my sympathy for you having to go through this. I can't imagine a tougher spot to be in. Door #1: your dad was robbed and murdered at work, or Door #2: Your dad robbed his employer and took off never to be heard from again. In my mind, the worst part for you guys is the not knowing. I'm not trying to say I know how you feel, because I never could, but to me that would be the hardest part. I hope you and your family can find some sort of peace through this. And thanks again for sharing your info! :)

With that said, I was always a 50/50 split on this based on what I saw on UM. I never could get a good read either way. One things for sure: If he was in on it, it is a ballsy thing to do.

I guess what makes me think he did not do it is why he would hide it if he was in on it. In other words, he was the only guy there so if he were going to rob the place and make a run for it, never to surface again, why have guys in masks point a gun at you? For a "simple guy" it would be a lot of theatrics. From the way your dad sounds, if he wanted to steal the platinum he would just do it. The look to the camera could be him saying, "I really hope this is recording this robbery..." So that's why I would say he probably did not do it.

I pray that someday you can find out the truth and I pray that your father was just trying to stop a criminal act. Take care!

[SP4CE INV4DERZ]

Yeah same goes here, thanks for posting Moneypenny. Very interesting as pretty much all us UM fans have always wondered if Dale ever returned or not. Just like nearly everyone, I'm still not sure what exactly to make of Dale and the missing Platinum.

[Corky Kneivel]

Man...Google does it once again! Dolphin lover Paul Pollis would be proud!

To Miss moneypenny10 & JacopoBelbo: thank you both for sharing so much personal insight. Its almost surreal for me to be reading your posts. Dale Kerstetter has always just been a name for me, a man involved in an incredibly bizarre mystery on one of my favorite television shows. I don't even picture Dale Kerstetter in my head right now as I type these words, I picture an actor hired to portray him.

But reading your posts helps remind me that this was a real person who lead a life that contained infinitely more than, and isn't solely defined by, the one night I'm aware of. I thank you both once again for your candid allowances into your personal life and the opportunity for all of us mystery-lovers to needle you with questions.

This segment is one of the few I can remember watching during the original UM run that has stuck with me through the years. I can recall getting completely creeped out, with my big sister, by the video footage of the man in the ski mask walking into frame and leading Dale around the plant. When I was younger I didn't know that the footage was recreated and I was so scared that the man in the mask was going to kill poor Dale. I felt the look into the camera was a pleading gesture...sort of a farewell.

I guess I still feel the same way...in my heart of hearts I think Dale's innocent of the crime...however I think UM played up the look into the camera as a "all guilty/all innocent" thing just to make a more palatable mystery.


moneypenny10: if you wouldn't mind, I would love to hear about the entire UM taping process. Did they contact you? How long and detailed was the interview? Do you feel they skewed the segment a specifi way? Any thoughts you would like to share are welcome.

Also I'd be interested in hearing more of what you know about the authority's investigation. The robbing of the plant in many ways reminds me of the infamous LUFTHANSA CARGO theft at Kennedy Airport in the late 70's. I think the known facts of that case could be extrapolated onto this one and would posit a compelling theory of how it went down. It HAD to be an inside job. Regardless of your contention that anyone living in the city at the time knew there was platinum at the Corning plant, the set up of the job had to come from someone intimately familiar with the ins and outs of the place. Someone who knew there was only one security guard at night, that said security guard was a guy who wouldn't put up a struggle, someone who knew the exact location of the platinum, and the best time and place to catch the security guard unaware. Most importantly, it had to be someone who had some way of getting rid of a load of platinum at a price that would make it worth it.

[Todd Mueller]

It HAD to be an inside job. Regardless of your contention that anyone living in the city at the time knew there was platinum at the Corning plant, the set up of the job had to come from someone intimately familiar with the ins and outs of the place. Someone who knew there was only one security guard at night, that said security guard was a guy who wouldn't put up a struggle, someone who knew the exact location of the platinum, and the best time and place to catch the security guard unaware. Most importantly, it had to be someone who had some way of getting rid of a load of platinum at a price that would make it worth it.

You know, Corky, you bring up some great points. Definitely stuff I haven't thought of before.

For the robbery, you bring up three great points:

1.) The robbers had to know there was platinum availabile to rob.

2.) The robbers had to know they could get in, get the platinum, and then get out with it.

3.) The robbers had to have an idea of who/where they were going to sell it to or use it.

Those three things combined do scream "inside job." However, that still doesn't mean Dale was in on it or aware of it. But you hit the nail on the head. This was no random crime or spur-of-the-moment act.

Number 3 intrigues me the most and I'm glad you pointed it out. To steal and leave with it is one thing. To get rid of it for $$$ is something else.

[nohwheregirl]

It HAD to be an inside job.

Moreover, the fact that they probably kidnapped and killed Dale means it's quite possible that he recognized the robbers. He didn't put up a struggle, he seemed quite calm. Why would the robbers kill him unless he could identify them?

moneypenny10, thanks for stopping by. It's always rewarding for us to be able to communicate with those involved in these cases. Please accept my deepest sympathies. I hope you will have answers one day.

[moneypenny10]

wISEGUY182 is forwarding a DVD copy of the segment to me so I will immediately watch it and report back to you about the security camera footage - was it the actual or a portrayal. Thank you to all of you who so graciously offered to do the same.

The producers of UM did not give us their questions in advance, presumably to avoid premeditated answers. They were very kind and sensitive throughout the whole process. The shooting of the segment took about three days and they were extremely organized in what and when they were going to film. They were definitely professionals in their demeanor and tasks at hand. We did not get paid (we didn't expect to) but they did take us to dinner on the eve of filming to discuss their agenda. You can imagine the cooperation they received in a town with a population of about 12,000. Everyone knew they were there and it was probably the biggest thing to happen to the town in a very long time.

They contacted the PA State Police about the story and the ball just got moving from there. It was purely voluntary on our part; some of my siblings did not want to participate for thier own reasons which was okay with all of us.

I must say I am finding comfort in reading all of the posts on the various threads. I am very happy to have found this site and that so many people, like us, the family, still wonder about it after all of these years. I honestly didn't really think anyone really remembered it anymore, much less actually cared about a family they never met and what they went through, and still do, at every holiday, family ocasion, etc.

You are right about the platinum, needing a market for it and the like, The plant reported it was about $500,000 worth of platinum that was stolen. I always wondered if it was much less than that and they claimed that for insurance purposes or if it was really much more than that but they didn't want to look stupid at the fact that someone just literally walked in and stole it.

There are so many unanswered questions but to the extent that I can answer yours, please feel free to ask me. It is liberating, for lack of a better word, to talk about it to people that genuinely wonder about it like me.

[Todd Mueller]

Moneypenny: The UM fan in me is just tickled you are here because we get such rare insight into such a baffling case. Many of us here definitely remember this case as it is so odd. Really could go either way.

However, the real person in me just aches for your poor family. Having a missing family member would be hard enough, but not knowing why and thinking it could be criminal... ugh.

So has any trace of the platinum ever turned up?

Was there any major dissention in your family about Dale's guilt or innocence? Do most of you feel that same way?

Thanks again...

[wiseguy182]

wISEGUY182 is forwarding a DVD copy of the segment to me so I will immediately watch it and report back to you about the security camera footage - was it the actual or a portrayal. Thank you to all of you who so graciously offered to do the same.

I sent it priority today, so you should get it Saturday, please let me know when you get it.

They said the camera footage was a re-enactment. The re-enactments showed a continuous motion, however I wonder if the actual footage was continuous motion, or one of those stop-action deals where they show one frame for a few seconds, then cut to another frame, and so on. this is displayed on the little tv when the actor that plays the person who is coming in for the morning shift.

[moneypenny10]

I think the family all pretty much agrees he didn't do it and was an unwilling victim. Will watch the DVD immediately and report back to you for sure about the tape. The actual security tape was one continous loop if I recall correctly. Not high quality but good enough you could see the expression on his face.

My mother has read the posts as well and reminded me of two very important pieces to this puzzle.

The procedure for the security guards required them to check in with the main plant every hour on the hour. At midnight, Dale missed his first check in and each one after that, of course. The main plant personnel did not notify the local authorities that something was amiss until about 5 a.m., which means they had evidence for 5 hours! that there was a potential situation at the plant. Furthermore, the local police station was located at that time within about a mile or so of the plant. Had police been called after he missed his midnight check-in, they could have been at the plant in minutes. When I questioned the plant personnel about this, they responded that they had someone new on the job at the main plant and this person wasn't sure of the procedures so didn't realize there was a problem, something to that effect.

Had we had more evidence that he was an unwilling victim, I suppose we could have legally gone after the plant as this information, I believe, is paramount to his disappearance. For some reason, I don't recall the police questioning this information to much extent and as you know, it certainly wasn't presented to UM. I think at the time I actually even wondered if the plant had put him up to this in exchange for something, I don't know what. The plant was undergoing a change in ownership at the time this happened, I believe that was the reason for the cutbacks.

The other thing Mom pointed out was that Dad had less than a year to go before he could retire and collect his pension. She believes it actually closer to six months. He started at the plant in 1959 and rarely missed a day of work in all those years.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this new information, does it change your opinion at all?

[Todd Mueller]

WOW! That information on the check-in part is very interesting.

I guess now the security people and police were in on it too! :lol: JUST KIDDING... Trying to keep it light-hearted in here. ;)

That IS indeed very interesting, Moneypenny. If Dale had to check in and didn't, that does change my opinion. In my eyes, the only way he would be in on it is if he knew he could (or could help) steal it, get it out, and get the money for that.

If he didn't check in and there was a very good likelihood the cops would be called, it seems crazy to think he was in on it. Yes, if that part is true, then I would be leaning very heavily towards Dale being a victim.

I don't think the fact he was close to retirement proves anything. Just my opinion, but that could prove he had no reason to steal but it could also be that he was bitter about having to retire and not having enough money, or that he was going to retire without enough money. That could be a pro or a con, depending on the individual. The fact that he could have been caught, though, changes a lot for me.

This is great stuff, Moneypenny. We really appreciate you sharing. You've certainly got me thinking. Our best to you, your mom, and the rest of your family!

[wiseguy182]

The procedure for the security guards required them to check in with the main plant every hour on the hour. At midnight, Dale missed his first check in and each one after that, of course. The main plant personnel did not notify the local authorities that something was amiss until about 5 a.m., which means they had evidence for 5 hours! that there was a potential situation at the plant. Furthermore, the local police station was located at that time within about a mile or so of the plant. Had police been called after he missed his midnight check-in, they could have been at the plant in minutes. When I questioned the plant personnel about this, they responded that they had someone new on the job at the main plant and this person wasn't sure of the procedures so didn't realize there was a problem, something to that effect.

wow, thanks for that, that is something I was totally unaware of. the segment depicted that the authorities weren't aware until Dale's relief came in at 7 and noticed he was missing, so that would have meant authorities did nothing for almost 8 hours.

[Todd Mueller]

wow, thanks for that, that is something I was totally unaware of. the segment depicted that the authorities weren't aware until Dale's relief came in at 7 and noticed he was missing, so that would have meant authorities did nothing for almost 8 hours.

More importantly, in my opinion, if there was a procedure for him to check in and he knew that, it would be pretty risky for him to rob the place and not check in.

In theory, he would only have an hour to do the whole thing. That new evidence really makes me doubt he planned to do it.

[moneypenny10]

Just watched the segment again, thank you WISEGUY for sending it. The security footage was indeed a re-enactment, but that is about the way the original looked. Watching it now, I think he was signaling for help. Between the cameras, the hourly check-ins, and the local police station being a mile away, he probably thought help would be there any minute.

I remember Max Bizzak of the State Police was always very careful not to imply he ever thought Dale was involved. He too, was very professional throughout the whole thing. I kept in touch with him for some time but then the leads stopped coming in, time passed, etc.

The masked man could have been any former disgruntled worker, many were being cut to a lesser position as dad was to keep his job, and many were simply laid off. Morale was very low as the plant was being sold and jobs were cut or re-structured.

I think the masked man knew Dad and Dad was able to identify him in spite of the mask. Masked man knows Dale carries a gun. He makes Dale hand it over and then takes him through the plant. I truly believe that if Dale thought his life was in danger, he would shoot someone. He was an avid hunter so clearly had no problem pulling a trigger. He was an impeccible shot as well, he never missed any target he aimed at. I know beyond a doubt Dale had his gun with him that night, either on him or in his lunch box, but it was not left in the truck. Whoever it was, they obviously didn't kill him in the plant, that would have left a telltale mess.

The plant personnel didn't ever portray, in a convincing manner, that they thought he may have been an innocent victim. Maybe they were afraid of the potential legal implications should that ever be proven. I remember talking to them and they were not at all kind or compassionate; you could tell they thought he did it. I guess it is better for them that this mystery was never solved.

I think this "marginal" employee lost his life for the plant. I would love to have evidence (a body, a tesimony, something) that would prove his innocence so I could go back to the plant after all these years. Not for anything other than to show them they should have given this long term, dedicated employee the benefit of the doubt. I am sure many town people probably lost respect for Dale because they thought he was in on it, if only because the plant showed no loyalty towards him.

So, if anyone out there knows anything, ever heard anything, I would love to hear from you!

[wiseguy182]

Just watched the segment again, thank you WISEGUY for sending it. The security footage was indeed a re-enactment, but that is about the way the original looked. Watching it now, I think he was signaling for help. Between the cameras, the hourly check-ins, and the local police station being a mile away, he probably thought help would be there any minute.

you're very welcome

I agree, I think Dale was signaling for help. It was speculated by some on the segment that Dale's staring into the camera was a way of flaunting, but I don't think that was the case. Since he would want to be careful not to irritate the robber and put himself in danger, he oviously can't do anything that will draw attention, like wave his arms or something. I think Dale's staring into the camera was his way of signaling for help and that the robber wouldn't see it.

[peachysquirt21]

After getting more info, I believe now that Dale was a victom. I think the plant maid up there mind that he was in on it & so therefore didn't bother to investigate further for other possible scenerios. I think that is really too bad cause they should have checked out everything from Dale being in on it to a disgruntled exmployee doing it, etc.

I now suspect that the person who did this was a disgruntled employee, ex employee or the shady rich guy Dale knew. I have always had him as a possible suspect or he knows who done this. People like him I would never trust know matter how loyal they might be to a person. People like him can turn on others & especially when there is a chance of making a nice sum of cash. Granted he might be completely innocent but it just seems too much of a coincidence that when Dale goes missing a short time after he ups & moves to another state. Then the deal with that doctor. Just somthing is not right with this & I think there is more to the story.

Thanks again for giving us more insight moneypenny. This is one of the UM cases that has always intrigued me. I even has this case on tape & watch it from time to time.

Again I am so sorry that you & your family have not gotten any closure to what happened to your dad & I think it was so wrong for the plant to just believe that Dale was in on it & not investigate other options.

[Todd Mueller]

I agree, I think Dale was signaling for help. It was speculated by some on the segment that Dale's staring into the camera was a way of flaunting, but I don't think that was the case. Since he would want to be careful not to irritate the robber and put himself in danger, he oviously can't do anything that will draw attention, like wave his arms or something. I think Dale's staring into the camera was his way of signaling for help and that the robber wouldn't see it.

I agree with you...

With this new evidence, I now think he was saying, "I sure as hell hope you're getting all this on tape."

Honestly, otherwise why not smile at the camera, give it the finger, or something else? To put myself in Dale's shoes (or his family) I would hate to be judged for all eternity just because I looked into a camera. It wasn't like he was smirking.

[JacopoBelbo]

Hey P-...I hope all is well with you and the family. When I originally posted back in July I just stumbled on this site as I searched for other folks interested in finding out what occurred with your dad. For some reason I haven't stopped thinking about him, probably because I continue to think about that Rolex dude getting away with something. Their relationship was always suspicious to me. I didn't get it. Do you recall me asking Rolex dude about the origins of his watch and him telling me it was a sales award from his insurance job...yet he never talked about selling insurance? Remember his concubine? What was she, 18-20 yrs. old? To us at the time he appeared to be 70 but was perhaps 50. Perhaps not core to the discussion but a reflection of his character.

Rolex dude and the coincidental doctor probably know what happened to your dad. How could no one have questioned Rolex dude at the time? The circumstances surrounding both of these characters are uncanny.

BTW - Remember your dad leaving me (city boy) in the woods for 5 hours (ok, maybe 2, or 1) in the dark when the atv broke down and the two of you left on his atv to hit get gas (or cocktails)? I know I heard a bear (or a very large deer....) :)

JB

[DJ_Foxx]

This case has always been troubling to me. For one, this was a pretty good sized plant with valuable platinum...why just have one guard, especially at night???

Anyway, this case kinda reminds me of the Whistle Blown seggie on the Bizarre Murders DVD (Dave Bocks). I think Dale might have possibly been privy to some things going on at the plant that shouldn't have been going on. Maybe he was going to blow the whistle and maybe someone decided to get to him before Dale could do that. It leads me to believe the whole robbery might have been a ruse/set-up to get Dale out of the way and also decredit him. What doesn't make sense to me is if this guy was a so-called "marginal employee" as the personnel manager claimed, why not lay him off or even fire him? It just leads me to believe Dale knew something or found out something and someone had to get rid of him...permanently.

[GaryJ06]

all i can say after reading all of this is wow. Also how little people aside from us here in the forum know about this whole case. I went to college with a guy from Bradford, and he said that he never heard of the disappearance...but he also may be too young or never asked. I truly wish the family the best

[idol]

I want to throw in another wow on this thread. Just watched the the case last night and I feel he wasnt in on it especially after reading Pennys posts.

[Kennedy]

Hmmmmm, iv'e always been 50/50 on this one .. Buuut if i had to come up with a choice id say he was the victom..

[pealo0819]

Ist time poster here. Been lurking a long time. I have always thought of Dale as a victim. When I first viewed this segment it struck me that the plant was having cutbacks so they were having financial problems. I always thought that this "robbery" was set up for insurance purposes. Sadly I think Dale was a pawn in the whole scheme. It just always seemed odd that they called him a marginal employee. It seemed that it was just something that didn't make sense but was said to just throw suspicion on Dale. The whole thing about Dale not being killed at the plant and left behind is odd also. Why take him with you along with all of this platinum unless it was some type of red herring. Also, who in the hell could sell all that platinum and not be caught? Why not just rob a bank? Seems like a lot of trouble to go through.

I don't know, just my 2 cents.

[crystaldawn]

Ist time poster here. Been lurking a long time. I have always thought of Dale as a victim. When I first viewed this segment it struck me that the plant was having cutbacks so they were having financial problems. I always thought that this "robbery" was set up for insurance purposes. Sadly I think Dale was a pawn in the whole scheme. It just always seemed odd that they called him a marginal employee. It seemed that it was just something that didn't make sense but was said to just throw suspicion on Dale. The whole thing about Dale not being killed at the plant and left behind is odd also. Why take him with you along with all of this platinum unless it was some type of red herring. Also, who in the hell could sell all that platinum and not be caught? Why not just rob a bank? Seems like a lot of trouble to go through.

I don't know, just my 2 cents.

Welcome! :wave: Yes I agree with you. I don't buy that theory that Dale was looking up at the security camera as kind of sticking it to his bosses. I think it was a cry for help. It seems pretty obvious it had to be an inside job which is surprising it hasn't been solved. Hopefully they have done a thorough job checking out all the possibly disgruntled ex-employees or a current employee that left his job soon after the theft took place. Its great that Dale's daughter has posted on here and given us even more insight into this strange case.

[mike890]

I could buy into Dale being a co-conspirator if he was a young single man with no kids. I just cant imagine a man who lived and worked in the same town for decades just decide to leave everything including his family behind. Kersetter was not far from retirement age and from all accounts he didnt seem to be very concerned with material things so I get the impression he probably looked forward to retiring and living out his remaining years in that town. I dont think a couple hundred thousand dollars would even come close to the value he placed on his relationship with his kids and grandkids. IMO he was robbed and disposed of possibly because he may have known the men who did the robbery.

[mike890]

"The plant reported it was about $500,000 worth of platinum that was stolen."



That is something I have always wondered about. It would be nice to know the exact value of the platinum stolen. Dont get me wrong, a half million is a lot of money but split between 3 or 4 people it isnt the kind of haul people can disappear and retire on. I think the value of the platinum would definitely be a factor is deciding on whether Kersetter was involved. A half million dollars worth and there is no way he was a co-conspirator. Make it 5 or 10 million worth and you never know. Everyone has a price.

[pealo0819]

I totally agree with the above posters. But I just think that the powers that be at the plant planned the whole thing. If I remember correctly there was onlly one guy on the tape (correct me if I am wrong) isn't platinum heavy. And it always bothered me that the platinum never showed up. Who better to get rid of it quietly if at all then the plant that manufactured it. I think there is alot going on that we don't know. To me this seems a rather ambitious crime for someone that was just a factory worker, (no insult intended).

[mike890]

"To me this seems a rather ambitious crime for someone that was just a factory worker, (no insult intended)."


Not only is it an ambitious crime but how many people have the means to sell the platinum. Getting the platinum is the easy part.

[videohunter]

I find this one fascinating. I go with co-conspirator, who was then killed for no longer being necessary - why cut the pie too many ways.

i agree 100%

[sdb4884]

i agree 100%
I reckon he was in on it. Where is he though?

[SP4CE INV4DERZ]

Probably the only thing certain about this case is that either way, Dale was murdered after the platinum was stolen.

[mattc]

This is a wonderful thread, and I just re-watched the episode after many years, and was so happy to find this discussion. Dale sounds like he was a wonderful man, husband and father, as Penny so eloquently stated in her posts.

The one question i have is: If he had a gun on him, and he saw a masked man lurking in the building, why didn't he shoot the guy or do something to defend himself. It was weird to see him walking around casually with a man with a mask on. Even if he knew the person, b/c he was wearing a mask, Dale would have known that something was not right.

Another part of me feels that the plant (which apparently was in financial turmoil, was laying off people left and right, and sold the business soon after the incident) officials, management had something to do with this. Penny brought up the idea that they wanted insurance money for the platinum.

Very difficult case. Any more thoughts?

[Phanekim]

I'm really surprised they haven't found a body or even a sign of a struggle. I do believe he cooperated though because in a sense he was held up. the look at the camera seems more of him trying to tip people off. more likely this seems to be an inside job. No one is talking though. this is a solvable case.

[Mastermind]

This is one of those cases that could go either way. One of the big problems with this case is that it appeared each of the people interviewed were biased. That supervisor seemed to really have an ax to grind!

1. This case was a very well planned and thought out robbery. They would need to have an inside man to do this. I can;t think of a better person than Dale. Why wouldn't the robbers try to get Dale in on this?

2. I security camera video neither proves nor disproves that Dale was a conspirator. Keep in mind that Dale acting like a hostage may be part of the plan. We don't know what occured before it so the suspect could have drawn a gun on Dale before the camera caught them. Since the suspect is wearing a mask, it's not like he has to worry about the camera catching his identity. And if Dale is caught on film, Dale could easily alibi it by saying the guy had a gun and I walked in front of the camera to warn everyone.

3. I have a feeling this case is being investigated the wrong way. Instead of trying to find Dale Kerstetter, I think people should be trying to find out who would rob the factory. Anyone capable of pulling it off, has to be capable of doing more robberies in the past or future.

4. If Dale is a conspirator, why is he missing then? There is no reason he couldn't stay around and collect his money later? It would be more suspicious that he was missing at the time of the robbery. He still has the alibi of saying he was a hostage, so it's not like he would get arrested right away. Odd.

I'm leaning toward dale being a conspirator and then was murdered shortly after.

[DJ_Foxx]

Ist time poster here. Been lurking a long time. I have always thought of Dale as a victim. When I first viewed this segment it struck me that the plant was having cutbacks so they were having financial problems. I always thought that this "robbery" was set up for insurance purposes. Sadly I think Dale was a pawn in the whole scheme. It just always seemed odd that they called him a marginal employee. It seemed that it was just something that didn't make sense but was said to just throw suspicion on Dale. The whole thing about Dale not being killed at the plant and left behind is odd also. Why take him with you along with all of this platinum unless it was some type of red herring. Also, who in the hell could sell all that platinum and not be caught? Why not just rob a bank? Seems like a lot of trouble to go through.

I don't know, just my 2 cents.
I wondered about that too...about the body not being left behind. The only thing I could think of is that Dale and his attacker fought maybe outside of camera range. If he was wounded/unconscious, I would see why the perpetrator wouldn't want to leave him there on the chance that Dale would wake up or recover to i.d. his attacker.

[Necco]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up, but it was a glass factory. After he did his walk in front of the camera, was he headed towards someplace with a glass furnace or other very hot device? Is it possible Dale has never been found because he never left the plant? Maybe he was cremated in the building.

Being unaware of the mechanics of glass operations in the late 1980s, I'm not sure if something as large and relatively cool as a person could be detected being introduced into a furnace or annealing mechanism.

[Mastermind]

I always thought that this "robbery" was set up for insurance purposes.[/QUOTE}

The theft would be profit enough. No real need for the insurance scheme as well.

[QUOTE]If he was wounded/unconscious, I would see why the perpetrator wouldn't want to leave him there on the chance that Dale would wake up or recover to i.d. his attacker.

The perpetrator was wearing a ski mask. Unless Dale Kerstater recognized his voice and he told the perp, I doubt there was a need to kill Dale as a witness.

Also, who in the hell could sell all that platinum and not be caught? Why not just rob a bank? Seems like a lot of trouble to go through.

1. A rival company that uses platinum. They could even purchase the stolen platinum legally without any knowledge of where it was obtained.
2. Happens all the time in inner cities with copper. Drug addicts steel copper from vacant homes and then sell it construction companies at a cheaper price.
3. Stealing platinum is not like stealing a car or a painting. Whose to tell one bar of platinum for another. Ones it's mixed in with other legit platinum, it's impossible to determine the stolen platinum from the legitimate platinum.
4. It's possible the platiunume could even have been sold back to the company it was stolen from in the first place. :lol:
5. Platinum's got to be worth more overseas than it is domestic. I wouldn't be surprised if this was some massive operation that stole metals from plants in America and then smuggled them on cargo boats to foreign nations.

[sdb4884]

a bit of a resemblance between these two, besides the name

http://www.unsolved.com/images/cases/mis_dale_kerstetter1.jpg

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=Dale+Kersetter&init=quick#/profile.php?id=100000438886771&ref=search&sid=612978953.3082563444..1

[sdb4884]

I didn't like his sons response saying that he "probably went to South Africa or Australia and when the statutes of limitations expires in 6 years he can come home scott free" I thought that just reeked of arrogance. I would certainly have issues with my Dad if he was part of a criminal scheme and left our family for 6 years to benefit himself.

[Apostapler]

a bit of a resemblance between these two, besides the name

http://www.unsolved.com/images/cases/mis_dale_kerstetter1.jpg

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=Dale+Kersetter&init=quick#/profile.php?id=100000438886771&ref=search&sid=612978953.3082563444..1

Wow, the nose is strikingly similar! Uncanny. Maybe he did come back after the statute of limitations was up! :lol:

[Mastermind]

I would certainly have issues with my Dad if he was part of a criminal scheme and left our family for 6 years to benefit himself.

Perhaps he expected that some of the heist money would eventually find it's way into the families pockets. Heck, maybe they already were receiving "checks" or "deposits" from a mysterious source all this time.

While they may abhor how he got the money, I'm not sure they would turn it down or turn down Dale if that money was given to the family.

Did UM mention the estimated dollar amount of the heist?

[sdb4884]

Wow, the nose is strikingly similar! Uncanny. Maybe he did come back after the statute of limitations was up! :lol:

Im glad someone responded to my facebook comparison. It is a striking isn't it!

250,000 in platnum vanished from the plant that night.

[Mastermind]

250,000 in platnum vanished from the plant that night.

Got to figure it's worth even more overseas.

[moneypenny10]

As one of Dale's daughters I can assure you, unequivicably, that the Dale Kerstetter on Facebook is most definitely NOT my father, unless he gained 150+ pounds and graduated from high school again 17 years after the first time! You are, unfortunately for our family, mistaken.

[moneypenny10]

I didn't like his sons response saying that he "probably went to South Africa or Australia and when the statutes of limitations expires in 6 years he can come home scott free" I thought that just reeked of arrogance. I would certainly have issues with my Dad if he was part of a criminal scheme and left our family for 6 years to benefit himself.

If you read my posts on the other thread, perhaps Al's comments, as a 16 year old that just lost his father under mysterious circumstances, will make some sense to you, as it did in his mind at the time. For the record, no one in the family has ever received a dime from any source, legal or otherwise, with respect to his dissapearance.

[Corky Kneivel]

I could buy into Dale being a co-conspirator if he was a young single man with no kids. I just cant imagine a man who lived and worked in the same town for decades just decide to leave everything including his family behind. Kersetter was not far from retirement age and from all accounts he didnt seem to be very concerned with material things so I get the impression he probably looked forward to retiring and living out his remaining years in that town. I dont think a couple hundred thousand dollars would even come close to the value he placed on his relationship with his kids and grandkids. IMO he was robbed and disposed of possibly because he may have known the men who did the robbery.


What about a man 6 months away from a pension...if he's promised a pension at his previous ((read: larger)) salary? All for doing nothing more that assisting in making it look like an intruder came in and stole the platinum. Then, just to tie up any potential loose ends, he's bumped off.

Don't get me wrong, I still think he's innocent of any complicity but the insurance scam angle has its merits.

@ moneypenny10: I'm bummed it took me until now to read your posts from a couple of years ago, shedding more light and responding to my questions. Thanks for that. If you don't mind, I would also like to know if there was any evidence that Dale assisted in removing the platinum. Was the "new" employee at the plant at the time Dale was supposed to check in with him?

[Mastermind]

This case brings some interesting moral dilemmas

1. Form the families perspective
a. If Dale is innocent.....then sadly Dale is almost certainly dead. A sad prospective for his family that Dale was killed. My condolences to the family.
b. If Dale is guilty....then he there is a very good chance he is alive.(if not dead from natural causes)

Dale can only be alive if he is guilty of being a conspirator.


2. From a police perspective

a. If Dale is alive then there is essentially no case to investigate since statute of limits expired. The robbers essential got away with robbery. And they may still be committing robberies or other criminal activities. Perhaps they have murdered other people or planning to murder other people.

b. If Dale was murdered...then the robbery case can very well be solved since murder has no statute of limitations. Whoever murdered him can be found convincted. The killer could also implicate others in the murder or even rat on the robbers other activities. The robbers could be convicted and wind up in jail(though not on the robbery charge..)

I have sympathy for the family on this case. I can;t imagine how emotional this whole thing must be for them.

As an investigator, you almost coldly want to wish for Dale being murdered, so the robbers can be convicted and prevent this tragedy from happening to someone else.

But as a human being, I actually want Dale to be alive so he can reunite with his family. Even if it means that criminals are getting away with robbery (and god knows what else.)

[sdb4884]

If you read my posts on the other thread, perhaps Al's comments, as a 16 year old that just lost his father under mysterious circumstances, will make some sense to you, as it did in his mind at the time. For the record, no one in the family has ever received a dime from any source, legal or otherwise, with respect to his dissapearance.

It was a long shot but yeah the odds were it wasn't your dad. I hope one day there is a resolution to your fathers whereabouts.

[moneypenny10]

[
@ moneypenny10: I'm bummed it took me until now to read your posts from a couple of years ago, shedding more light and responding to my questions. Thanks for that. If you don't mind, I would also like to know if there was any evidence that Dale assisted in removing the platinum. Was the "new" employee at the plant at the time Dale was supposed to check in with him?[/QUOTE]

There was never any evidence that would suggest he was anything other than an unwilling victim. The "new employee" that was monitoring the check in procedures was working at a remote location, at the Corning HQ, not in the same plant as Dad in Bradford.

[everybodylovesrs]

[
@ moneypenny10: I'm bummed it took me until now to read your posts from a couple of years ago, shedding more light and responding to my questions. Thanks for that. If you don't mind, I would also like to know if there was any evidence that Dale assisted in removing the platinum. Was the "new" employee at the plant at the time Dale was supposed to check in with him?

There was never any evidence that would suggest he was anything other than an unwilling victim. The "new employee" that was monitoring the check in procedures was working at a remote location, at the Corning HQ, not in the same plant as Dad in Bradford.[/QUOTE]


You might want to post here if you'd still like to keep up the search, as it is a site dedicated to helping solve cold cases and find missing people:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88645

You could continue to bump it until people would get involved.

[Mastermind]

Originally Posted by moneypenny10

There was never any evidence that would suggest he was anything other than an unwilling victim.


1. I'm not sure that the robber would need any assistance from Dale regardless of his loyalties. He seemed to not need help moving that cart. I'm sure he would have brought another person with him if he needed assistance. I doubt he would think that he could depend on Dale to willingly help him. Of cource, he wouldn;t need a partner if Dale was that very partner.

2. The robber needed dale for SOMETHING. He could easily have knocked Dale out or killed him long before he reached that far into the process. Dale had a vital piece of information that the

3. Apparently this robber didn;t need a gun to control Dale at this point. If he was hiding the gun, that would mean he was aware of the camera. Why would he even care whether the camera catches the gun is beyond me.

I'm beginning to think that it is highly unlikely that Dale was killed inside the plant. Especially if he was innocent. Why risk and waste time killing him and hiding the body? Why kill him in the first place? The killer was wearing a mask, so it's not like Dale could identify him? Dale would have known nothing of the details of the robbery? Why add murder unnecessarily to a burglary charge.

Of course if Dale was in on it, there is a lot Dale knew that may necessitate murdering him.

[marlins3]

I just thought of this scenario (and much of it would be far-reaching so stay with me). What if it was an inside job by another Corning employee. The plant seems to have had camera's only in the inside. Say a coworker of Kerstetter's shows up late at night off his shift (perhaps using the excuse he forgot something). kerstetter (eating his "lunch" in the early morning hours) sees the man and recognizes him as an employee. The man is not yet masked. When Kerstetter approaches him, he threatens Kerstetter with a gun (and being an employee himself, knows about the security camera and how to conceal the weapon from camera's view). The man then has Dale lead him to the Tank to get the platinum. Because the man knows that Dale could identify him, he kills Kerstetter. The employee need not flea with the platinum if he had a place to keep it for a while. Also, he would not arouse suspicions at work as he would return to work as every other employee would. To be sure, the plant was probably closed the following day due to the theft (the first employees reporting in the morning shift would have notified supervisors who surely would have contacted the police. The plant would then be closed for at least one day). As long as the employee had connections on the outside (perhaps other friends not connected to Corning who had a way to sell the platinum or whatever), he would not be a suspect. His tracks are covered because of the mask he put on and teh fact that Dale looks fairly calm in the camera. The employee would make his money off the platinum while still continuing his duties at Corning (again not acting suspcious in any way) with a nice load of cash in the bank that only he knows about (from the stolen platinum).


just a thought.......

[Mastermind]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just thought of this scenario (and much of it would be far-reaching so stay with me). What if it was an inside job by another Corning employee. The plant seems to have had camera's only in the inside. Say a coworker of Kerstetter's shows up late at night off his shift (perhaps using the excuse he forgot something). kerstetter (eating his "lunch" in the early morning hours) sees the man and recognizes him as an employee. The man is not yet masked. When Kerstetter approaches him, he threatens Kerstetter with a gun (and being an employee himself, knows about the security camera and how to conceal the weapon from camera's view). The man then has Dale lead him to the Tank to get the platinum. Because the man knows that Dale could identify him, he kills Kerstetter. The employee need not flea with the platinum if he had a place to keep it for a while. Also, he would not arouse suspicions at work as he would return to work as every other employee would. To be sure, the plant was probably closed the following day due to the theft (the first employees reporting in the morning shift would have notified supervisors who surely would have contacted the police. The plant would then be closed for at least one day). As long as the employee had connections on the outside (perhaps other friends not connected to Corning who had a way to sell the platinum or whatever), he would not be a suspect. His tracks are covered because of the mask he put on and teh fact that Dale looks fairly calm in the camera. The employee would make his money off the platinum while still continuing his duties at Corning (again not acting suspcious in any way) with a nice load of cash in the bank that only he knows about (from the stolen platinum).

Sounds good.

The only problem I have with the theory is as to why he felt he had to kill Dale outside the plant and why he needed to hide Dales body.

If Dale were killed inside the plant, I think they would have found blood or even the shots or bullet holes and shells would have been found.

[marlins3]

Sounds good.

The only problem I have with the theory is as to why he felt he had to kill Dale outside the plant and why he needed to hide Dales body.

If Dale were killed inside the plant, I think they would have found blood or even the shots or bullet holes and shells would have been found.


He may have figured that as long as Dale didn't look panicked, he would get blamed for the whole thing. The other employee would get off free while authorities focused on dale (of course the weapon would have been concealed as well. Dale may hvae been ordered to act as though he was not in any danger and to act like he was showing the masked man where to go (i.e shoving a gun in his back and saying "now point towards the platinum" as they walked past the camera. Dale may have believed (or been told) he would not be harmed if he showed the man where to go. But once he realized Dale could possibly identify him (or planned all along to kill him), he decided to kill him. I think the tarp covered platinum and the body. Dale may have even been hit on the head with a pipe rinside the plant (rather than shot) in orde rto prevent blood from being found. The perpetrator knew that if blodd or body was left behind, then police would focus all efforts on a murder. This way, they have to look at the possibility that Dale stole the platinum.

[Mastermind]

He may have figured that as long as Dale didn't look panicked, he would get blamed for the whole thing. The other employee would get off free while authorities focused on dale (of course the weapon would have been concealed as well. Dale may hvae been ordered to act as though he was not in any danger and to act like he was showing the masked man where to go (i.e shoving a gun in his back and saying "now point towards the platinum" as they walked past the camera. Dale may have believed (or been told) he would not be harmed if he showed the man where to go. But once he realized Dale could possibly identify him (or planned all along to kill him), he decided to kill him. I think the tarp covered platinum and the body. Dale may have even been hit on the head with a pipe rinside the plant (rather than shot) in orde rto prevent blood from being found. The perpetrator knew that if blodd or body was left behind, then police would focus all efforts on a murder. This way, they have to look at the possibility that Dale stole the platinum.

Maybe.

The real kicker for me is the fact that Dale Kerstetter is missing. It's the unique aspect in this case and the biggest clue in this case IMHO. To much of Dale missing indicates that he was either
1. Killed to silence him for his total knowledge of his involvement in the robbery.
2. He went on the lam to escape prosecution

Not that things always happen normally...but in a normal robbery where Dale is not complicit should either be
1. found tied up, gagged or unconcious in the plant
2. found killed inside or close by to the plant.

None of those things happened. Dale simply disappeared which is the prime reason why this case is an Unsolved Mystery.

[Corky Kneivel]

There was never any evidence that would suggest he was anything other than an unwilling victim. .

Please excuse the vagueness of my question. I meant to ask if there was any evidence your father PHYSICALLY assisted the masked intruder in removing the platinum than night. For some reason I remember that being left unmentioned on the UM segment.



The "new employee" that was monitoring the check in procedures was working at a remote location, at the Corning HQ, not in the same plant as Dad in Bradford.


Why did you put new employee in quote? Did I mis-represent that employee? On a typical work night, your father was the sole attendant employee, is that correct?

[everybodylovesrs]

Please excuse the vagueness of my question. I meant to ask if there was any evidence your father PHYSICALLY assisted the masked intruder in removing the platinum than night. For some reason I remember that being left unmentioned on the UM segment.






Why did you put new employee in quote? Did I mis-represent that employee? On a typical work night, your father was the sole attendant employee, is that correct?


You're quoting the incorrect person; the person who posted was the daughter, and I was responding to them.

[Corky Kneivel]

ahhh...gotcha, thanks.

[sharonite]

http://www.epa.gov/reg3wcmd/ca/pa/pdf/pad046762258.pdf

This file offers some information about the plant where the incident took place. Just after the robbery/disappearance in 1987, Kerstetter's employer (Corning) sold the plant to another company, which folded its operations on the site in 2002.

Here's an aerial view of the plant:

http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9eXAuNTUwK0hpZ2grU3QlNDAyK0JyYWRmb3JkJTJjK1BBJTdlc3N0LjAlN2VwZy4xJmJiPTQxLjk0MTI2MzU3MTQ1NTglN2UtNzguNjMyMzYyMTc5ODA5NiU3ZTQxLjkyNzg1NTAzMjM0ODYlN2UtNzguNjU1OTY1NjE5MTQwNg==

I feel with 99% certainty that Mr. Kerstetter was NOT involved in the robbery in any way. To me, the evidence clearly indicates that he was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time and was likely killed and his body disposed of immediately thereafter. If anything, his glance at the security camera was a silent plea for help.

There are other things that strike me as fishy. The fact that the plant was sold shortly after the robbery (likely, the sale process had already begun, as sales as big as this one tend to take several months to close), combined with the fact that the stolen platinum apparently never surfaced, makes me wonder if someone further up at Corning plotted the robbery for insurance purposes--perhaps an attempt to squeeze a little more cash out of a plant that was soon to be disposed of. If Dale's daughter is correct (and I have no reason to doubt her), the lapse in Dale's check-ins being igorned for several hours also seems to indicate that someone further up the food chain knew something was going on.

Overall, this was a great segment, though tragic. I ache for Dale's family and the closure that they have been denied for so many years.

[Mastermind]

I feel with 99% certainty that Mr. Kerstetter was NOT involved in the robbery in any way. To me, the evidence clearly indicates that he was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time and was likely killed and his body disposed of immediately thereafter. If anything, his glance at the security camera was a silent plea for help.

Why only 99%?

Whats doubts consist of the lowly 1% that's holding you back from exonerating him completely?

What evidence do you speak of that exonerates him?? We seem to be missing the most important evidence in this case-namely Dale Kerstetter himself?

You do realize for all the theorizing we have done, everything could change with Dale Kerstetter being found alive in Mexico someplace or his remains being found nearby of the plant? I don;t see how you can 99% sure of any theory considering the fact that Dale is still missing to this day.

While I believe that Dale was involved in the robbery I'm only 60% sure of that theory and I realize that could change with Dales body being found in a quarry somewhere.

Overall, this was a great segment, though tragic. I ache for Dale's family and the closure that they have been denied for so many years.

We all hope for many things, but sometimes the answers we get are not the ones that we want. The family must prepare themselves and admit to the possibility that the answer they receive...might not be the one that they want to hear. :(

[Mastermind]

I should point out that this case is far easier to solve if you follow it from the angle that Dale Kerstetter is alive and was implicit in the robbery.

I do wonder if the family is choosing the most difficult investigative path simply because it puts their father in the best light. I'm not trying to be cruel or cold here but I think at some point the emotion needs to be separated from the investigative logic here.

[sharonite]

Why only 99%?

Whats doubts consist of the lowly 1% that's holding you back from exonerating him completely?

What evidence do you speak of that exonerates him?? We seem to be missing the most important evidence in this case-namely Dale Kerstetter himself?

You do realize for all the theorizing we have done, everything could change with Dale Kerstetter being found alive in Mexico someplace or his remains being found nearby of the plant? I don;t see how you can 99% sure of any theory considering the fact that Dale is still missing to this day.

While I believe that Dale was involved in the robbery I'm only 60% sure of that theory and I realize that could change with Dales body being found in a quarry somewhere.



We all hope for many things, but sometimes the answers we get are not the ones that we want. The family must prepare themselves and admit to the possibility that the answer they receive...might not be the one that they want to hear. :(

I said "99%" because of the old never-say-never rule--I simply don't feel myself qualified in any way to issue a definitive judgment. Maybe "evidence" isn't the right word, at least not in the judicial sense. To me, it's mainly the things that don't add up: his cigarettes being left behind (I know people who wouldn't even make a 5-minute trip to the corner store without their cigarettes), the fact that he never attempted to make contact with the family he loved, his failure to check in each hour going ignored until it was too late, etc.

And, regarding closure...although I've never been in a situation where a loved one was missing, I think (given a choice) I would choose to know what truly happened.

[Mastermind]

And, regarding closure...although I've never been in a situation where a loved one was missing, I think (given a choice) I would choose to know what truly happened.

This is an interesting moral dilemma that I hope nobody ever has to go through.

To me, it's mainly the things that don't add up: his cigarettes being left behind (I know people who wouldn't even make a 5-minute trip to the corner store without their cigarettes), the fact that he never attempted to make contact with the family he loved, his failure to check in each hour going ignored until it was too late, etc.

1. Who says he didn't leave his cigarettes by mistake when he was going to lam it? He could always bum one of his "buddy" in the mask? I also wonder if there were smoking restrictions at the plant. Does Dale have to smoke outside? We also don;t know how many packs he had or if Dale had another pack in his locker or one in his pocket. You also have to keep in mind that if Dale is going to lam it, he needs to make sure his disappearance looks like he just vanished. Any preparations done by Dale would signal his family and others that something was out of the ordinary..especially since he has to take part in a robbery which requires clandestine behavior from that point on.

2. Everything you mentioned just means that he didn't plan to lam it...that doesn;t mean he wasn't an accomplice to the crime, conspirators didn't kill him afterwards. Dale may have had every intention of returning home and claim he was kidnapped and forced to commit the robbery.


the fact that he never attempted to make contact with the family he loved, his failure to check in each hour going ignored until it was too late, etc.

I really don;t see how you look at that as evidence against him being a conspirator.

If Dale was planning on committing a crime and laming it afterwards..I think he pretty much adhered to the fact that he's going to have to cease all contact with his family. If your a bank robber your not going to say goodnight to your daughter while your just about to committ the robbery. If he's going to hide from the law, Dale's smart enough to know that he can;t have any contact with his family for risk that law enforcement will use them to find him.

[moneypenny10]

Please excuse the vagueness of my question. I meant to ask if there was any evidence your father PHYSICALLY assisted the masked intruder in removing the platinum than night. For some reason I remember that being left unmentioned on the UM segment.



There was no evidence, whatsoever, to suggest that Dale was involved in this situation other than an unwilling victim of circumstance.


Why did you put new employee in quote? Did I mis-represent that employee? On a typical work night, your father was the sole attendant employee, is that correct?

Corning told me that the reason Dale's lack of hourly check-ins wasn't responded to immediately was that the person in HQ responsible for the hourly monitoring was a new employee that wasn't fully versed on the proper procedure, hence, the reason his first missed check-in and subsequent hourly ones thereafter were not reported to the local police to follow up on.

[moneypenny10]

http://www.epa.gov/reg3wcmd/ca/pa/pdf/pad046762258.pdf

This file offers some information about the plant where the incident took place. Just after the robbery/disappearance in 1987, Kerstetter's employer (Corning) sold the plant to another company, which folded its operations on the site in 2002.

Here's an aerial view of the plant:

http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9eXAuNTUwK0hpZ2grU3QlNDAyK0JyYWRmb3JkJTJjK1BBJTdlc3N0LjAlN2VwZy4xJmJiPTQxLjk0MTI2MzU3MTQ1NTglN2UtNzguNjMyMzYyMTc5ODA5NiU3ZTQxLjkyNzg1NTAzMjM0ODYlN2UtNzguNjU1OTY1NjE5MTQwNg==

I feel with 99% certainty that Mr. Kerstetter was NOT involved in the robbery in any way. To me, the evidence clearly indicates that he was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time and was likely killed and his body disposed of immediately thereafter. If anything, his glance at the security camera was a silent plea for help.

There are other things that strike me as fishy. The fact that the plant was sold shortly after the robbery (likely, the sale process had already begun, as sales as big as this one tend to take several months to close), combined with the fact that the stolen platinum apparently never surfaced, makes me wonder if someone further up at Corning plotted the robbery for insurance purposes--perhaps an attempt to squeeze a little more cash out of a plant that was soon to be disposed of. If Dale's daughter is correct (and I have no reason to doubt her), the lapse in Dale's check-ins being igorned for several hours also seems to indicate that someone further up the food chain knew something was going on.

Overall, this was a great segment, though tragic. I ache for Dale's family and the closure that they have been denied for so many years.

THANK YOU!! for your insight!! I often thought I was the only one that analyzed the situation in this manner.

[moneypenny10]

I should point out that this case is far easier to solve if you follow it from the angle that Dale Kerstetter is alive and was implicit in the robbery.

I do wonder if the family is choosing the most difficult investigative path simply because it puts their father in the best light. I'm not trying to be cruel or cold here but I think at some point the emotion needs to be separated from the investigative logic here.

The years have made us all accept his likely demise; at this point, it really wouldn't matter if there was evidence to suggest he was 100% involved or not, we just want to know what happened. He was the kind of person most people wish for in their lives, his guilt or innocent is irrelevant now, a simple closure to a complicated scenario would suit us all just fine.

[Clockworkhigh]

I am reminded of another case. It was not on UM but has been profiled before on other shows. The case is the murder of Gladys Ricart. She was the bride shot dead on her wedding day in 1999 by her ex boyfriend. Why is this similar? Well the night before Gladys' wedding she was seen with her ex-boyfriend walking into a department store. On the surface it looks innocent. They seem to be hugging. But if you look at it from a different angle she looks to be held against her will by a crazy ex-bf possibly telling her if she gets married he'll whack her. On closer inspection Gladys looked uncomfortable so it likely is the latter.

Enter Dale Kerstetter. It looks like he is complying on the security camera. He looks to be co-operative. But you can't hear any noise/conversation and we don't know if the burglar had a gun or if there was someone else in the background. Dale then looks into the camera, a camera that he knows the EXACT location. To me that was a sign right there of innocence. Look closer on the re-enactment. To me if that re-enactment is accurate he looks very uncomfortable.

Secondly, if you were going to assist a robbery why set up shop where the cameras can see you? He's a security guard, if he is planning this heist I have a hard time thinking he isn't smart enough to check the locations. Plus he was 5'4" 130lbs or so right? Not a big man, and by looking at the pictures it wouldn't be hard to overpower a 50 year old with that frame. That would eliminate any type of struggle.

Lastly there was no resentment on his part. All we know is that he was divorced 10 years earlier and got a paycut at his job. Is that enough to ruin your legac with all your children and grandchildren? All for $250,000 that will be divided up who knows how many ways? I doubt it. Dale would be 73 years old today. He was a smoker. Something tells me he wasn't in tiptop shape in 1987 and if he were in on the whole thing he wouldn't be doing to well today.

Innocent in my book. And sadly I think he is dead

[Clockworkhigh]

I am reminded of another case. It was not on UM but has been profiled before on other shows. The case is the murder of Gladys Ricart. She was the bride shot dead on her wedding day in 1999 by her ex boyfriend. Why is this similar? Well the night before Gladys' wedding she was seen with her ex-boyfriend walking into a department store. On the surface it looks innocent. They seem to be hugging. But if you look at it from a different angle she looks to be held against her will by a crazy ex-bf possibly telling her if she gets married he'll whack her. On closer inspection Gladys looked uncomfortable so it likely is the latter.

Enter Dale Kerstetter. It looks like he is complying on the security camera. He looks to be co-operative. But you can't hear any noise/conversation and we don't know if the burglar had a gun or if there was someone else in the background. Dale then looks into the camera, a camera that he knows the EXACT location. To me that was a sign right there of innocence. Look closer on the re-enactment. To me if that re-enactment is accurate he looks very uncomfortable.

Secondly, if you were going to assist a robbery why set up shop where the cameras can see you? He's a security guard, if he is planning this heist I have a hard time thinking he isn't smart enough to check the locations. Plus he was 5'4" 130lbs or so right? Not a big man, and by looking at the pictures it wouldn't be hard to overpower a 50 year old with that frame. That would eliminate any type of struggle.

Lastly there was no resentment on his part. All we know is that he was divorced 10 years earlier and got a paycut at his job. Is that enough to ruin your legac with all your children and grandchildren? All for $250,000 that will be divided up who knows how many ways? I doubt it. Dale would be 73 years old today. He was a smoker. Something tells me he wasn't in tiptop shape in 1987 and if he were in on the whole thing he wouldn't be doing to well today.

Innocent in my book. And sadly I think he is dead shortly after the heist

[Mastermind]

from mphs95
the statue of limitations ended over 15 years ago. He could have come back to his family free and clear, but hasn't, so I think he's dead.

1. Your assuming Dale cares to come back to his family. He may be enjoying his new life too much. Perhaps he has a new family.

2. While the statute of limitations are up...there could be other crimes that Dale has that do not have limitations. During his time on the lam, Dale may have had to do other crimes. He may even have had to kill someone. :eek:

3. Course Dale may have died while on the lam.

4. If Dale was a "patsy", the other members of the criminal conspiracy may still have something to lose. They may not like it if Dale comes back home to live back after committing a robbery.

5. Dale going back home would be like OJ Simpson showing up at the Goldman's home. Some people may not take well to Dale getting away with grand larceny. There is danger and a degree of shame that could beset the family. I don;t really think it is that easy as people say.

6. There may be an IRS tax issue here. I'm by no means a CPA..but the money and assets garnered from the robbery couldn;t have been taxed. When Dale comes out of hiding..all those assets will probably come out of hiding. I'm sure the IRS is going to have an issue here.

7. As crazy and ironic as it sounds...Dale may actually already be in jail! If Dale was under a different name and was arrested for some felony...he could be an innmate somewhere and we just don;t know it. Especially if Dale went to another country. He could be rotting in a Mexican under the name "Juan Moreno" as we speak.

In short, I think people are overestimating how easy it would be for Dale to come back after the statute of limitations. There are a still a ton of obstacles that Dale has to deal with that may be too great for Dale to risk coming back.

[Mastermind]

Lastly there was no resentment on his part. All we know is that he was divorced 10 years earlier and got a paycut at his job. Is that enough to ruin your legac with all your children and grandchildren? All for $250,000 that will be divided up who knows how many ways? I doubt it. Dale would be 73 years old today. He was a smoker. Something tells me he wasn't in tiptop shape in 1987 and if he were in on the whole thing he wouldn't be doing to well today.

The take may be a lot more than 250,000. Especially if it was sold overseass...say to an embargoed country. :(

Dale may have asked for a flat fee than a percentage.A fee like say $500,000. That exorbant fee may have been why he was killed by his co-conspirators. Or it might have been the other way around. Dale may have killed one of his co-conspirators to get a bigger take or even ran off with the entire haul. Maybe that;s why Dale is missing. Maybe it's not fear of the police..but fear of his own people coming after him.

[SageSlowdive]

Wow, I'm surprised at how many people think he was in on it.

Not saying he was innocent, but the way he looked at the camera, looked pretty terrified to me.

[Mastermind]

Wow, I'm surprised at how many people think he was in on it.

Not saying he was innocent, but the way he looked at the camera, looked pretty terrified to me.

I don;t see how you could tell anyone;s facial expressions from that grainy video.

Plus, wasn;t that video, UMs renactment video?

Regarding the video
I'm still trying to figure out

1. If Dale is innocentr, where was the hooded guys accomplice?
2. Where his hooded guys gun was, and why he felt no need to brandish it at this point.
3. What all the conversation between Dale and the hooded man was about? Especially considering that the conversation may have lasted before the video feed.

[Chocolatetown]

The years have made us all accept his likely demise; at this point, it really wouldn't matter if there was evidence to suggest he was 100% involved or not, we just want to know what happened. He was the kind of person most people wish for in their lives, his guilt or innocent is irrelevant now, a simple closure to a complicated scenario would suit us all just fine.


Im a first time poster, and i know im a lil late posting, considering this thread has been around for a few years.

First, Id like to pass on my condolences to you MoneyPenny, and your family for your loss. Guilty or not guilty of this crime, all of you lost a beloved familiy member. Id also like to commend you for posting on here and giving information to all of us who watched the show, even though you lost so much. You have a lot of strength and courage, and should be so proud of that. Thank you, and I hope that someday you and your family get the answers that you deserve.

A few thoughts on the case.

1. I just dont buy into the fact that a family man with six children would all of the sudden run off and never contact them again. I guess its a possibility, but I doubt it. You said that the company stated that they lost 500 grand worth of platinum but possibly less than that. If your father was involved, theres ATLEAST two people involved in this crime, and possibly more. Trading in a family for 250 grand or less? I guess its possible, but again, unlikely. Yes, its a lot of money, but not the kind of money you can live off of for the rest of your life. Also this. I did read how he was 30 k in debt on a mortgage or something to that effect, but it was also noted in UM that he had Corning stock and other financial withholdings, so if he did infact partake in this crime and disapear for some new life, that would make his share of the 250 k, (or less) that much smaller because he would have to give those things up for this new life of his.

2. If Dale was involved with this crime, I dont think he necessarily HAD to disapear. Wouldnt it be just as easy to play a victim of a robbery, quietly take his share of the robbery at a later time AND keep his normal life and family?

3. A guy works for a place for 27 years and THEN decides to pull off a robbery? To me that makes no sense.

4. Its a smaller world out there than you think. Theres a better chance than not that had he infact been part of the robbery and disapeared that he would have been seen by somebody in the past 20-30 years, whether he went to Canada or elsewhere.

5. The look into the camera. Obviously we cant see the exact expression on his face as you did seeing the true surveillance video, but if infact he was a part of this crime, I just dont buy the theory the one guy said on the show about it possibly being a "stick it up your butt" kind of look. Again, if he was involved, why do anything that makes you look like youre in on it? It would only make authorities look that much harder for you when you leave town, because they would KNOW definitively that youre guilty, alive, and able to be found. Seems to me its much smarter to look like youre being forced to do these things, even if youre in on it. Also this. A look into the camera saying "F you", wouldnt just be an "F you" to the company, it would also be an "F you" to his family who he would have abandoned had he been in on it. I just dont buy it.

6. Had he been in on it, why didnt he come home after the statute of limitations were up?



Moneypenny, I dont know if youre still coming on here, although I saw you responded as recently as February, I think, and while Im sure youre tired of answering questions, I do have a few id love to ask you if and when you have the time.

Patrick Foley, the former personnel manager at the plant, stated on UM that the robber shows up on the surveillance footage, and shortly after that your father "met" up with him. I find the term "met" to be very interesting, as it implies guilt on your fathers part. Certainly you dont "meet" up with someone if someones pointing a gun at you, ordering you around. When you watched the footage, did the robber seem to have a gun? Also, did your father seem to "meet" the man, like Foley stated, as if he was of free will and not under control? Or were your fathers movements more of kind that a typical hostage would do had he been threatened with a gun or some other weapon? Was the robber brandishing a gun on the surveillance footage? UM makes no mention of it. Id love to know these things.

Id also ask you this, and forgive me if youve answered any of these questions before as Ive not read a every post. What was your opinion of the face that your father made when he looked at the camera? I know that UM probably tried to make the reenactment as real as possible, but what was the exact facial expression from the real footage that you saw? Was it a grin? Why does Foley seem to feel that it was a big "f you" to the company? Was it that obvious of a look that Foley felt he was guilty on UM? Im curious to know what you think, and what you thought the face and look at the camera implied.

One last question. Al, your brother, stated on UM that he felt your father was still alive, and would come back after the statute of limitations was over. Did he feel your father was in on it at the time the show was filmed, and what are his opinions of what happened today? Did they change at all since your dad didnt come home?



Sorry for the long post, I just had a bunch of things I wanted to get into, and thanks for your time. God bless you and your family.

[Mastermind]

1. I just dont buy into the fact that a family man with children would all of the sudden run off and never contact them again

He;s on the lam. If he contacts someone he runs the risk of his location being revealed and arrested. I'm pretty sure police were waiting for Dale to contact his family. Dale Kerstetter would not be the only criminal on the lam to not contact his loved ones.

Your making the assumption that Dale cared about his family.


2. If Dale was involved with this crime, I dont think he neccesarily HAD to disapear. Wouldnt it be just as easy to play a victim of a robbery, quietly take his share of the robbery at a later time AND keep his normal life and family?

1.Because his face was shown on the camera with the masked man. Dale would be the first person questioned about the robbery. A good investigator might be able to find the holes in his story.

2. Your making the assumption that Dale cared about his family, again. Money has a weird way of changing peoples priorities.

3. Dale may very well be the patsy in this case. The man that was going to take the blame to protect the others.

3. A guy works for a place for 27 years and THEN decides to pull off a robbery? To me that makes no sense.

1.If you ask that one guy in the segment, Dale's relationship with the company was not all rosy. There were conflicts.

2. Your assuming that everyone LOVES the places they work. Dale Kerstetter may have hated every day he worked at that place and jumped at the chance to steal from them and end his job there. I think If you polled a hundred people most of them would blow up their own office building and kill their own bosses if giving the opportunity.

4. Its a smaller world out there than you think. Theres a better chance than not that had he infact been part of the robbery and dissapeared that he would have been seen by somebody in the past 20-30 years, whether he went to Canada or elsewhere.

1.There are hundreds of fellons that have disappeared over longer periods of time and have not been seen in years by people. It is possible to lam it and stay undetected for years.

2. Dale Kertstetter may have died of natural causes while on the lam.

3. Your overestimating the significance of this case in the mind of the general public.

5. The look into the camera. Obviously we cant see the exact expression on his face as you did seeing the true surveillance video, but if infact he was a part of this crime, I just dont buy the theory the one guy said on the show about it possibly being a "stick it up your butt" kind of look. Again, if he was involved, why do anything that makes you look like youre in on it? It would only make authorities look that much harder for you if you leave town, and KNOW definitively that youre guilty, alive, and able to be found. Seems to me its much smarter to look like youre being forced to do these things, even if youre in on it. Also this. A look into the camera saying "F you", wouldnt just be an "F you" to the company, it would also be an "F you" to his family who he would have abandoned had he been in on it. I just dont buy it.

1. If Dale Kerstetter was going to lam it, the camera really doesn;t hurt him in anyway. His mere departure is going to make him a suspect anyway.

2. Considering the other guy has a mask on. The camera is not going to affect him.

3. It's quite possible that Dale noticed the camera and looked at it a second and simply walked away. People do that all the time when they notice security cameras.

6. Had he been in on it, why didnt he come home after the statute of limitations were up?
Moneypenny, I dont know if youre still coming on here, although I saw you responded as recently as February, I think, and while Im sure youre tired of answering questions, I do have a few id love to ask you if and when you have the time.


There are numerous reasons why Dale has not returned.

1. He may have died while on the lam. Or he may be incapacitated.
2. There may be other crimes that Dale committed that do not have expired limitations. Like perhaps the murder of his accomplice.
3. I don;t know about you, but if I'm living in Acupulco, Mexico by the beach living it up. It would be pretty hard for me to go back home.
4. Dale may not care about his family as much as we think. He may enjoy the piece and quiet of not having to deal with family problems.
5. Dale may have another wife and family. Not easy to abandon them to rejoin his family.
6. Just because you aren't convicted of a crime, doesn;t mean that people won;t look at you like a criminal. Can you imagine Dale going back to that town with people knowing he got away with robbery? Forget about getting work in that town, I would think Dale would have to sleep with one eye open!!:eek:
7. The other conspirators on the robbery may not like it if Dale comes back after all these years. Those conspirators may still be active criminals and may fear that Dale will snitch or write a book. Those people may decide to kill Dale or his family.
8. There could be a tax issue here regarding the proceeds of the robbery. Even if statute of limitations is up...Dale has to explain where that money came from and why he hasn;t been paying taxes.
9. This is going to sound funny....but Dale may be too lazy to come back. he may be so comfortable in his new life that going back to his family is too much for the old guy.

When you watched the footage, did the robber seem to have a gun? A

No. And more improtantly if he did have one, he saw no need to brandish it at Dale. Which is strange since he;s wearing a mask and has already met Dale. It;s not like covering up the gun is going to make him look inconspicuous.:rolleyes:

Considering he just ran into Dale, it seems curious that this guy doesn;t feel the need to keep the gun on Dale.

[Mastermind]

Would Dale have know the help sign?

http://www.airsoftgent.be/dbase/hands.htm

Why didn;t he use it? I know police are trained to use it and military.

Not sure on security guards.

Why did Dale not use ANY type of hand signal to alert the camera. A hurried wave to the camera, for example. A baseball sign. Anything

A nod or shake of the head would be a perfect signal.

Heck even a mouthing of the word help, would suffice.

All Dale appears to do is stare at the camera.

[Chocolatetown]

He;s on the lam. If he contacts someone he runs the risk of his location being revealed and arrested. I'm pretty sure police were waiting for Dale to contact his family. Dale Kerstetter would not be the only criminal on the lam to not contact his loved ones.

Your making the assumption that Dale cared about his family.




1.Because his face was shown on the camera with the masked man. Dale would be the first person questioned about the robbery. A good investigator might be able to find the holes in his story.

2. Your making the assumption that Dale cared about his family, again. Money has a weird way of changing peoples priorities.

3. Dale may very well be the patsy in this case. The man that was going to take the blame to protect the others.



1.If you ask that one guy in the segment, Dale's relationship with the company was not all rosy. There were conflicts.

2. Your assuming that everyone LOVES the places they work. Dale Kerstetter may have hated every day he worked at that place and jumped at the chance to steal from them and end his job there. I think If you polled a hundred people most of them would blow up their own office building and kill their own bosses if giving the opportunity.



1.There are hundreds of fellons that have disappeared over longer periods of time and have not been seen in years by people. It is possible to lam it and stay undetected for years.

2. Dale Kertstetter may have died of natural causes while on the lam.

3. Your overestimating the significance of this case in the mind of the general public.



1. If Dale Kerstetter was going to lam it, the camera really doesn;t hurt him in anyway. His mere departure is going to make him a suspect anyway.

2. Considering the other guy has a mask on. The camera is not going to affect him.

3. It's quite possible that Dale noticed the camera and looked at it a second and simply walked away. People do that all the time when they notice security cameras.



There are numerous reasons why Dale has not returned.

1. He may have died while on the lam. Or he may be incapacitated.
2. There may be other crimes that Dale committed that do not have expired limitations. Like perhaps the murder of his accomplice.
3. I don;t know about you, but if I'm living in Acupulco, Mexico by the beach living it up. It would be pretty hard for me to go back home.
4. Dale may not care about his family as much as we think. He may enjoy the piece and quiet of not having to deal with family problems.
5. Dale may have another wife and family. Not easy to abandon them to rejoin his family.
6. Just because you aren't convicted of a crime, doesn;t mean that people won;t look at you like a criminal. Can you imagine Dale going back to that town with people knowing he got away with robbery? Forget about getting work in that town, I would think Dale would have to sleep with one eye open!!:eek:
7. The other conspirators on the robbery may not like it if Dale comes back after all these years. Those conspirators may still be active criminals and may fear that Dale will snitch or write a book. Those people may decide to kill Dale or his family.
8. There could be a tax issue here regarding the proceeds of the robbery. Even if statute of limitations is up...Dale has to explain where that money came from and why he hasn;t been paying taxes.
9. This is going to sound funny....but Dale may be too lazy to come back. he may be so comfortable in his new life that going back to his family is too much for the old guy.



No. And more improtantly if he did have one, he saw no need to brandish it at Dale. Which is strange since he;s wearing a mask and has already met Dale. It;s not like covering up the gun is going to make him look inconspicuous.:rolleyes:

Considering he just ran into Dale, it seems curious that this guy doesn;t feel the need to keep the gun on Dale.

You make some fair points at times during this.

But.

Man I wish I knew how to quote like you did. It would make this much easier.

Ill just go down the line.

First one, and I find it funny you use the word "assume", when clearly youre doing the same thing by saying he didnt care about his family. Almost everything we have seen on UM or from his daughter on here, is that Dale genuinely cared for his family. His mother, daughter, and son all stated that he was a good and honest person, who DID care about his family. Hardly an assumption on my part, and at worse MUCH MUCH less of an assumption than you saying he didnt. The facts are we have very little to no proof that he DIDNT. Youre making the assumption, not I. Look, he could have been involved, all im saying is that this lack of caring about his family feeling you have about the guy, doesnt match up to the way the guy lived for x amount of years around them.

The camera. A good investigator MIGHT have been able to poke holes in his story, IFFFFFFF he was infact guilty and stayed in town, but he might not have. We have 3 measly cameras in this plant, with what looks like very little amount of footage of the actual crime being committed. The footage that is there only shows the masked man committing crimes. Now yes, it is troubling that what we see doesnt seem to show a gun, but there are so many ways to just concoct a story and not be caught considering the small amount of actual evidence that is there. He could have went out to smoke a cig and the guy pulls a gun on him. Inside jobs happen everyday that people dont get caught for. He didnt have to necessarily leave town if he was involved.

The 27 year thing. Where exactly do you get that I said everyone loves their job? Thats quite a stretch considering what I typed. Almost EVERYONE has conflicts and issues with their jobs at one point or another. If robberies happened because of people having issues with their jobs, there wouldnt be enough prisons in the country to house the amount of people. Its just a huge leap to say that because the guy had conflicts with his work, that he partook in a robbery of it. Fact of the matter is, its a rarity to have a guy work for that long of a period of time to then rob it. Could it be? Sure, but again, its not something you typically see. Thats the point I made.

As far as the national recognition of this case, and him not being seen for almost 30 years. Ill agree with you that this case isnt exactly OJ Simpsonesque in terms of its notoriety, but it was on a very popular TV show that did have a lot of crimes and other things solved by it that also werent mainstream stories. Plus, its not like UM has really ever gone off the air, they have replayed them over and over and repackaged them even as of today. A lot of people have seen this case, as you can see from this forum. If hes in another country, I will give you that it might be easier for the guy to not be spotted, but still, a lot of people have seen this story. Millions for sure.

The look. Youre playing both sides of the fence here. The camera absolutely affects him if hes going to go on the lam if he makes an "F you" type face, or any other that cements his role in this crime. His departure doesnt necessarily mean hes a suspect. You see from the responses on here that a huge chunk of people think the guy forced to do these things and was killed afterwards. I feel as though whether he was involved or not, he was murdered. If he was involved though, again, the logical thing to do is to just play it smooth and play it like you werent a willing party here. Things die off a lot easier when people think youre a dead man and not walking around living life with stolen money basically.

You and I differ about the leaving the family thing. Again, I think your opinion that he left willingly to start a new life is wrong, and we will have to agree to disagree. To me, theres two logical reasons as to why he didnt come back. A, he wasnt involved and was murdered, or B, he was involved and was murdered. Sure, theres a possibility that the guy took out his co conspirator, but I doubt that based on the fact that this is an old man who if involved was probably only involved because someone else brought him into it, and possibly used him just to gain access to the plant. Its far more likely to me that HE was the guy that was killed, not some mobster type of guy who eliminates the witnesses. Again, he could have possibly, but I doubt it. It would have been a HUGE leap from the life that we know the man lived for 50 years. It is of my opinion that he would have atleast contacted someone in his family at some point. I think if he was involved he had every intention of coming back, after whatever period of time it was.

It does bother me about the fact I dont see a gun. That and the fact that Pat Foley seems adament that Dale was mocking Corning when he made a face at that camera. If hes smiling at the camera, to me, that is huge. I also want to know what "meet" means, in terms of that footage, and if its clear that both Dale and the masked man are of free will the entire time. I just really wish I could see the real footage, the entire footage, because I think theres answers there.

[Mastermind]

First one, and I find it funny you use the word "assume", when clearly youre doing the same thing by saying he didnt care about his family. Almost everything we have seen on UM or from his daughter on here, is that Dale genuinely cared for his family. His mother, daughter, and son all stated that he was a good and honest person, who DID care about his family. Hardly an assumption on my part, and at worse MUCH MUCH less of an assumption than you saying he didnt.

1.I assume nothing about Dale Kerstetter's family life. He could have been loved his family or hated them with a passion. Any awful family problems would be hidden unless someone in the family feels the need to bring it forward.

2. What family members don;t try to put their family in the best light? How many times have we seen family members try to paint suspects in the best light? if we listen to the family members opinions all the time, every suspect in any crime is the model citizen.

3. Even, Richard Kulkinski was a good father. Being a family man doesn;t mean you can;t be a criminal.

The camera. A good investigator MIGHT have been able to poke holes in his story, IFFFFFFF he was infact guilty and stayed in town, but he might not have. We have 3 measly cameras in this plant, with what looks like very little amount of footage of the actual crime being committed. The footage that is there only shows the masked man committing crimes. Now yes, it is troubling that what we see doesnt seem to show a gun, but there are so many ways to just concoct a story and not be caught considering the small amount of actual evidence that is there. He could have went out to smoke a cig and the guy pulls a gun on him. Inside jobs happen everyday that people dont get caught for. He didnt have to necessarily leave town if he was involved.

1. If Dale was in town and was being brought in for questioning by the police...how would Dale know what was on the tape? or that there was a tape to begin with?

Why would the investigator would let Dale see the tape beforehand?

The interrogation would be done without Dale's knowledge of the tape. That is where he could be tripped up.




The 27 year thing. Where exactly do you get that I said everyone loves their job? Thats quite a stretch considering what I typed. Almost EVERYONE has conflicts and issues with their jobs at one point or another. If robberies happened because of people having issues with their jobs, there wouldnt be enough prisons in the country to house the amount of people. Its just a huge leap to say that because the guy had conflicts with his work, that he partook in a robbery of it. Fact of the matter is, its a rarity to have a guy work for that long of a period of time to then rob it. Could it be? Sure, but again, its not something you typically see. Thats the point I made.

Then why did you bring up the 27 year thing, to begin with? :confused:

As far as the national recognition of this case, and him not being seen for almost 30 years. Ill agree with you that this case isnt exactly OJ Simpsonesque in terms of its notoriety, but it was on a very popular TV show that did have a lot of crimes and other things solved by it that also werent mainstream stories. Plus, its not like UM has really ever gone off the air, they have replayed them over and over and repackaged them even as of today. A lot of people have seen this case, as you can see from this forum. If hes in another country, I will give you that it might be easier for the guy to not be spotted, but still, a lot of people have seen this story. Millions for sure.

Your really overrating the capabilities of UM in capturing felons. Your also being naive at the capabilities of people to stay hidden from law enforcement.

1. this forum only got created what 8 years ago? And there are how many regulars? I myself only got hear a year or two ago?
2. If Dale Kerstetter grew a beard, I'm pretty sure most of us wouldn't recognize him.
3.I have watched UM during it;s original run and during Lifetime and to be honest I didn;t remember this episode until watching it recently. I'm pretty sure I;m not in the minority of people who didn't remember this episode originally.

but I doubt that based on the fact that this is an old man who if involved was probably only involved because someone else brought him into it, and possibly used him just to gain access to the plant

That's kind of ageist. What, old people can;t rob and steal like other people?
Old people can;t committ murder and fraud?

Dale Kerstetter wasn;t exactly a cripple or doddering old man. He seemed to be more than capable.

Not to mention that he had his much younger "cohort" in the black mask to help him. It seemed the chap in the black mask did most of the heavy lifting. All Dale probably did was plan the caper.

he left willingly to start a new life is wrong, and we will have to agree to disagree.

If Dale is on the lam, he can do whatever the heck he wants to do. As long as it doesn;t hurt expose him to the police, why not meet a nice 50 year old widow and start up a new life. He certainly wouldn;t be the first criminal to start a new life with another woman.


To me, theres two logical reasons as to why he didnt come back. A, he wasnt involved and was murdered,

What you referring to is one reason, not two. If he wasn;t involved then he was murdered. Those aren;t two logical reasons.

If Dale went on the lam and died, wouldn;t that be a logical reason why he didn;t come back???:confused:

The camera absolutely affects him if hes going to go on the lam if he makes an "F you" type face, or any other that cements his role in this crime. His departure doesnt necessarily mean hes a suspect.

You do realize that if he;s on the lam, he's alive and can be captured? Hence he becomes a suspect immediatley once he;s been found by the police. Camera face or not,

You also have to realize, that unless his body is found, the police are going to look for him regardless of whether he is a suspect or not.

You see from the responses on here that a huge chunk of people think the guy forced to do these things and was killed afterwards.

There's a fair chunk of people who believe that Dr. MacDonald is innocent of killing his wife and an equal amount that believe he is innocent.

What's your point?

I feel as though whether he was involved or not, he was murdered.

There has been no body or any evidence of murder. Dale Kersteter is a missing person.

If he was involved though, again, the logical thing to do is to just play it smooth and play it like you werent a willing party here. Things die off a lot easier when some people think youre a dead man and not walking around living life with stolen money basically.

1.Your forgetting that money aspect of this. Dale needs to get his share of the money. Money which could be traced right back to Dale. Dale needs to have a way of spending this money and hiding it. Going on the Lam seems a good way to avoid people looking into your money. Dale could even keep the money in a suitcase.

2. Another thing to consider is that if Dale planned this, Dale had to have met with the person buying the steel. If this was a small operation, Dale may have been in on the payoff meeting. Which means that someone has seen Dale Kerstetter alive after the robbery. Granted.

3. If this was a large scale operation, it isn;t that impossible to believe that they designated Dale as a patsy. If this was part of a large smuggling operation.

[Mastermind]

Chocolatetown,

If Dale Kerstetter was killed by his robbers...why?

1.Why would they risk a murder charge on this much money?

2. Why do we see only one robber? Where is his accomplice? Was this guy going to move all this stuff himself? Was he going to be wholly dependent on Dale's compliance?

3. Why would the risk time, effort (and space in the truck!!!) on Dale's burying Dale's body?

[Chocolatetown]

1.I assume nothing about Dale Kerstetter's family life. He could have been loved his family or hated them with a passion. Any awful family problems would be hidden unless someone in the family feels the need to bring it forward.

2. What family members don;t try to put their family in the best light? How many times have we seen family members try to paint suspects in the best light? if we listen to the family members opinions all the time, every suspect in any crime is the model citizen.

3. Even, Richard Kulkinski was a good father. Being a family man doesn;t mean you can;t be a criminal.


1. You absolutely assume he doesnt care about his family. You said in an earlier post that you feel he was infact involved in the robbery? Did you not? A person who DOES care about their family doesnt up and leave them hanging for all this time without contacting them. Fact is you have no evidence to support that he DIDNT care about them, and would leave them high and dry.

2. Family members paint their criminal relatives as bad people ALL THE TIME . Typically in shows or documentaries about crimes and criminals, they dont even interview the criminals family, so how can you say such a blanket statement like that? Plenty of family members of the accused and convicted call a spade a spade, regardless of blood and plenty of them testify in court against their family member or members that are tried. Working in a D.A.s office, I personally see it ALL THE TIME. Stories like this and others on TV the VICTIMS and their families reactions are focused on, typically you dont even get the family member of the accused's opinions.

3. This makes absolutely no sense, especially in regards to what I said. Were talking about a parent not caring about his children, not the fact that he couldnt be a criminal because he was a family guy. Theres plenty of good parents that love their kids and are criminals, that however, has nothing to do with what I said or what we are discussing.

1. If Dale was in town and was being brought in for questioning by the police...how would Dale know what was on the tape? or that there was a tape to begin with?

Why would the investigator would let Dale see the tape beforehand?

The interrogation would be done without Dale's knowledge of the tape. That is where he could be tripped up How would Dale know what was on the tape?

The guy had worked there for a LONG time, and as shown by his glance at the camera, he knew where they were, and that he was on camera. As for how would he know that there was a tape to begin with, common sense tells you that if theres a camera, its PROBABLY GOING TO BE A TAPED ONE! Millions of dollars worth things in that factory, and Corning is only going to have a live feed for their ONE security guard? Even throwing that out the window, which is huge, theres reason to believe from working there as long as he did, hes going to know the ins and outs of the companies security, and the fact that the cameras record.

Then why did you bring up the 27 year thing, to begin with?

Its ATYPICAL to see a guy work for a company for 27 years and then suddenly decide to rob it. Is that something you see a lot? Because I sure dont, and I work in an office where we try people for theft and grand larceny at the workplace from time to time. Very rare.

Your really overrating the capabilities of UM in capturing felons. Your also being naive at the capabilities of people to stay hidden from law enforcement.

1. this forum only got created what 8 years ago? And there are how many regulars? I myself only got hear a year or two ago?
2. If Dale Kerstetter grew a beard, I'm pretty sure most of us wouldn't recognize him.
3.I have watched UM during it;s original run and during Lifetime and to be honest I didn;t remember this episode until watching it recently. I'm pretty sure I;m not in the minority of people who didn't remember this episode originally.

1. What does a forum like this have to do with cases being solved? or not being solved? Are you really saying that the popularity of UM in the past and present is represented by the number of people in this forum? lol Sure, there are criminals that remain uncaptured, but the fact is that many were indeed captured because of UM, and the popularity of the show!

2. Another blanket statement based on YOUR beliefs. Some here might not recognize him with a beard, and some might. That all depends on your memory, attention, and observation skills. Many of the people that were captured as a result of the UM show changed their appearance, and were still caught. If you watch the show, and you happen to live next door to a guy that appears on the show for killing his wife, you are probably going to recognize him. You and I obviously dont live next to him, thus his face isnt going to ring as much of a bell for you.

3. Again, thats YOU. I remembered this story from seeing it. Im sure others do as well. I will give you that the longer time goes on, without reairs, that it gets easier to stay on the loose, but again, thats common sense and really doesnt have to do with anything that I stated.

That's kind of ageist. What, old people can;t rob and steal like other people?
Old people can;t committ murder and fraud?

Dale Kerstetter wasn;t exactly a cripple or doddering old man. He seemed to be more than capable.

Not to mention that he had his much younger "cohort" in the black mask to help him. It seemed the chap in the black mask did most of the heavy lifting. All Dale probably did was plan the caper

You obviously didnt understand what I meant. I didnt say that its unlikely that Dale was the brains behind this caper because he was a feeble old man. What Im saying is that its not likely for a man who seems to be a normal, law abiding citizen (within reason) to turn into a guy who not only robs the place, but leave his family and start whacking off his cohorts. Its a HUGE leap for a guy who seemed to live a normal everyday life. Could it happen? Anything is possible, but its not LIKELY and something that happens all the time lol.

If Dale is on the lam, he can do whatever the heck he wants to do. As long as it doesn;t hurt expose him to the police, why not meet a nice 50 year old widow and start up a new life. He certainly wouldn;t be the first criminal to start a new life with another woman.

Well I dont really understand what a woman has to do with it, as from what I saw on this case, Dale was no longer married anyway. Sure, he could have met some woman and made house with her. Thats different from abandoning your kids and let them rot not knowing what happened to you or if youre dead or alive. Especially considering he was a loving father.

What you referring to is one reason, not two. If he wasn;t involved then he was murdered. Those aren;t two logical reasons.

If Dale went on the lam and died, wouldn;t that be a logical reason why he didn;t come back???

You didnt quote the whole sentence that i wrote there. I said I believe that there are TWO logical reasons that he would not have contacted his kids in the past 30 years. 1. He was not involved with the robbery and was murdered shortly after, and 2. He was involved, and was murdered by his cohort.

As for him going on the lam and dying, sure that would be a logical reason, but again I DONT BELIEVE THAT lol. What I stated as to being 2 reasons, WAS MY OPINION lol.

You do realize that if he;s on the lam, he's alive and can be captured? Hence he becomes a suspect immediatley once he;s been found by the police. Camera face or not,

You also have to realize, that unless his body is found, the police are going to look for him regardless of whether he is a suspect or not.

Absolutely he can be captured, and absolutely he becomes a suspect once found. My point was that if he smiles or sticks his thumb up to the camera as hes walking out, there probably isnt ANY doubt that the guy IS involved, and arrest warrants are sought and other authorities are notified that normally wouldnt be.

Sure they will look for him whether he is a suspect or not, but if they KNOW hes a part of the crime, as opposed to being a victim and possibly dead somewhere, the sense of urgency to find Dale goes up, as well as the manpower, atleast in the short term.

There's a fair chunk of people who believe that Dr. MacDonald is innocent of killing his wife and an equal amount that believe he is innocent.

What's your point?

Hes automatically a person of interest just by working there. Him departing doesnt necessarily make him a suspect. Had the masked man put a gun to his head the entire time, him departing would make it more likely that the police would be looking for a body, not a potential criminal.

1.Your forgetting that money aspect of this. Dale needs to get his share of the money. Money which could be traced right back to Dale. Dale needs to have a way of spending this money and hiding it. Going on the Lam seems a good way to avoid people looking into your money. Dale could even keep the money in a suitcase.

2. Another thing to consider is that if Dale planned this, Dale had to have met with the person buying the steel. If this was a small operation, Dale may have been in on the payoff meeting. Which means that someone has seen Dale Kerstetter alive after the robbery. Granted.

3. If this was a large scale operation, it isn;t that impossible to believe that they designated Dale as a patsy. If this was part of a large smuggling operation

1. Sure, going on the lam is a possible way to have people not see your money, but there are plenty of criminals such as bank robbers that bury it in a backyard or wherever. Are you saying THE ONLY way to avoid people knowing you have money is to go on the lam? I hope not lol.

2. If he was involved, he could have been in on the meeting, or if he really knew the cohort and trusted him, he might not have had to be I suppose. I guess it depends on how much he was willing to stick his neck out there and let people know he was involved in this. Assuming he was at such a meeting, either directly with the buyers, or using another person who seemed more legitimate to sell the platinum, SOMEBODY would have knowledge of his being alive, yes. But we have nobody so far that has come forth with such information, and probably never will at this point.

3. IMO I dont think that it was that much of a large scale thing. I think if Dale was involved, that it was something either a former coworker or criminal friend and him kicked around. Im glad you brought this up actually, because it struck me as absurd when i rewatched this story this morning. A 100k square foot factory, with MILLIONS of dollars of machinery AND the platinum, and their security consists of one man and three lousy cameras? It didnt even seem like entrances were being filmed as you would think they would, because UM didnt show or mention anything about how the masked man got into the building. This place IMO was RIPE for the taking, and it kind of reminds me of the movie "Good Fellas" when Frenchy was calling the security "a joke" at Idlewild Airport. Could it have been a huge theft ring involved? Sure, but it doesnt sound like you had to do much to get your hands on that stuff. Either bribe or involve the ONE security guard, or just catch him off guard, steal the stuff, and kill him. Its really easy. As far as the patsy goes, sure that is a logical possibility. People use others to help them committ crimes all the time and then whack them either for their share, or to leave them looking the guilty party. Me, personally, im not sold that Dale was involved, only because theres not anywhere near enough evidence to say so definitively IMO.

Look, i tried to leave my last post quietly, because im not gonna sit here and do the back and forth thing where you try to nail me to the cross and pick apart what I believe. You can keep going with the quoting thing and what seems to be the condescending attitude, but im not going to hog this thread with a back and forth with you. Again, you can believe what you want, and thats fine. I believe what I do.

Like I said before, you make some good points. The lack of gun being brandished is an issue. If there was infact a smile, or something cocky to that effect that Dale did when looking at the camera, that is hard to explain off as well. I just think with what we know for a fact right now, based on the fact that this guy was a normal and regular family guy, him being involved in this is such a Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde type thing, that I need more to believe he was involved.

[Chocolatetown]

Chocolatetown,

If Dale Kerstetter was killed by his robbers...why?

1.Why would they risk a murder charge on this much money?

2. Why do we see only one robber? Where is his accomplice? Was this guy going to move all this stuff himself? Was he going to be wholly dependent on Dale's compliance?

3. Why would the risk time, effort (and space in the truck!!!) on Dale's burying Dale's body?


1. Theres a few reasons as to why Dale could be killed by the robbers. He might have known the robber somehow, or they might have just killed him so that he cant tell police anything about the guy that might get him caught. People kill off witnesses to crimes all the time that they dont have to.

1a. People kill and risk murder charges for a lot less than 500 k, and you know that. Hell, I saw a UM episode where a guy killed a man to rob him, BEFORE he even knew how much money he had. It ended up being for 25 bucks. There was the Bowling Alley Massacre from UM that is on Youtube, where the two hispanic men (never caught) murdered 6 or 7 people for 3 or 4 thousand dollars. Ive seen cases here in the Harrisburg area where people were killed for a hundred dollars. Jeffrey Dahmer basically killed individuals for an orgasm or two. Some people are stupid and sick, and will kill without logic or the worry of a murder charge.

2. Not sure. He could have been off camera (theres plenty of places there werent any lol), or maybe the guy could have done it himself. This is another reason why I want to see the actual tape, because in the UM show, they only show the masked man for 5 seconds trying to peel back the lid on the "tray" or whatever they called it. Wheres the footage of the platinum being lifted onto the cart? I know they cant show hours of it during an hour show, but I want to see how they got it out of there.

3. If you want to make sure there are no witnesses, and youre a sicko willing to kill a human, youll do it.

[Clockworkhigh]

Yeah he's dead for sure. Whether he was in on it is another story and personally I don't think he is. Why look into the camera? Why bother "taunting" the authorities? It just doesn't make sense. It could have been a cry for help

[kadrmas15]

Hmm, I am not so sure. Looking at this case, the problem I have with it is, it is a mighty big coincidence that someone would just happen to target the plant on a night when no one else but Kerstetter was there. I will say, at the very least regardless if Kerstetter was involved or not, I DO think that it was either someone that worked at the plant or someone that had worked at the plant that pulled the robbery.

They just seemed to be too comfortable and too familiar with how things were and were they were so that tells me they had been in the plant before and knew where things were and how things operated. Plus the gunman did not keep Kerstetter that close to him for what would normally be an armed robbery of an unknown person. He let Kerstetter move around further away from him than what a lot of armed robbers would.

To me, the big thing is, why would Kerstetter look into the camera for help when he knew no one else would see it until hours later? It was a camera that could only be seen from within the facility. Kerstetter might have very well been murdered but I think if he was, it was more likely that his accomplice got greedy and decided to take it all and murder Kerstetter rather than Kerstetter being murdered by some random thief. I also do not believe that the things in the sack on the forklift operated by the robber on the camera were Kerstetter's body. I do believe that was the platinum.

I have operated manual forklifts so I know how they operate. A body, especially that of Kerstetter's length, he was not a tall man, but that said, he would have been longer than what was shown in the re-enactment and in any event what was on the forklift appeared to weight more than what Kerstetter would have weighed as Kerstetter was a short man and weighed about 145, 150 pounds, would not be hard to push around. However with dead weight like a body, for the robber to push it so easily tells me it was not a body but was the platinum. A body, if he were recklessly moving that forklift would have the possibility of tumbling off the forklift. Also, it tells me the robber was very comfortable with operating a manual forklift as that is something that a person that has never handled it before, well, you would be able to tell they had never handled it before, lets put it that way.

[Mastermind]

To me, the big thing is, why would Kerstetter look into the camera for help when he knew no one else would see it until hours later? It was a camera that could only be seen from within the facility.

Excellent point.

1. Theres a few reasons as to why Dale could be killed by the robbers. He might have known the robber somehow, or they might have just killed him so that he cant tell police anything about the guy that might get him caught. People kill off witnesses to crimes all the time that they dont have to.

1. People usually kill witnesses to murders that have already been committed. Or for crimes in which the sentence is great enough to warrant it.

2. Considering that the robber might work at the plant, the possibility of Dale recognizing has to have been a possibility.

3. What would Dale say? I recognized his voice? That;s not really much of a description.

4. if dale did recognize the robber, you don;t think the robber might cut a last minute deal with Dale?

3. If you want to make sure there are no witnesses, and youre a sicko willing to kill a human, youll do it.

Again, what was Dale going to witness? The guy was wearing a mask.
What's so sick about robbery? Granted it;s morally wrong, but you don;t have to be a psychopath to rob people. Just





or maybe the guy could have done it himself.

That guy was going to steal all that heavy platanium by himself???:confused:
Are you sure about that assesment?

I really doubt someone was going to rob this plant by himself.
This was at least a two man operation. At least the robbery part of it was.

1a. People kill and risk murder charges for a lot less than 500 k, and you know that. Hell, I saw a UM episode where a guy killed a man to rob him, BEFORE he even knew how much money

1. Your forgetting that there may be many more people that are part of this robbery than just the robbers.

This metal had to be sold to someone. The buyers or intermediaries are not going to be happy that they are part of a murder conspiracy rather than grand larceny.

This is not a simple robbery were someone took the money and pocketed it.

2. In those cases the murder was done as part of the act of the robbery. Such as in the Neil Jennings case.

The murder of Dale Kertetter is not tantamount to the robbery. Dale Kersteter is the equivalent of a bank guard in this case. You don't kill the bank guard unless your sure he;s going to kill you.

3. If they killed Dale, why was there no gun casings found in the plant?

4.

[Mastermind]

I think too many people are focused on Dales expression and mannerisms toward the camera.

And not enough on the actions of the man in the masked.

1. No gun visble.
2. Leaves distance between him and Dale.
3. Was engaged in a conversation with Dale Kersteter that seemed to stop when Dale looked at the camera.

Were also assuming that the mask was for any witnesses inside.
But the mask may have been for the camera's that this guy and Dale knew were inside.

In fact, a mask may have been all this guy carried with him. There may have been no gun needed for this caper.

[Mastermind]

I wonder if Dale;s actions toward the camera was because he realized he was talking to much to the masked man and realized he needed to quiet down.

He may have even been worried about the conversation being deciphered by lip reading.

The pause and "look" may simply be Dale thinking for a second about the situation and then resuming back to his work in the robbery.

[kadrmas15]

Yes, that is a good point. Now remember the camera footage we saw was re-enactments of the actual footage but I think they said it was exact as they could get it. Now you did see the robber walking around a lot but it almost seemed like the robber and Dale were casually interacting with each other. I mean at one point when they start walking towards the direction of the camera, Dale is walking in front of the robber and the robber is walking behind him, close but not super close, and acting like he has a weapon pointed at him from behind yet we never actually see the weapon.

Like I said in my earlier post, to me, that just does not seem like a one man job. There might have been other people that were not caught on the footage but I doubt this. I say that because it is one thing to have two or even three men involved but you do not want to get too many people involved because it is harder to keep it a secret. Plus all that heavy platinum , it would be hard for one man alone to lift that up and transport it even down the stairs to where it was eventually put on the manual forklift and then I would assume transported outside of the facility.

Like I have said, I do think that the robber and Dale did know each other or at least had met before that night. The robber seemed to be very familiar with where things were. So I think the robber had been in the plant before and as I said, he was just too familiar with where things were and where to find things and it would be hard to scope that place out unless Dale had let him into the plant on prior occasions where he (Dale) was working alone at night as a security guard. Either that or the robber had worked at that plant before.

I mean to me, the motives for Kerstetter being involved in this in some way, are huge. He at the time of his disappearance was 30 to 40 thousand dollars in debt. A large amount of debt by 1987 standards. He evidently was behind on several key payments, such as trailer payments and vehicle payments and various other bills that he owed. Plus he had been demoted out of the trade shop to a security guard where his pay was cut substantially and I think he was ticked off about that to say the least. Couple that with the large debt and I think he felt like he was going to stick it to Corning.

Also one big one and this always struck me, was Dale's son's statements. I am not sure if it was just a young man being smirky or what. But whereas his daughters were dead set against Dale having anything to do this, Dale's son attitude was very different. I mean speculating on where his dad might be, 'Canada or Australia' also how he talked about how his dad would come back in 7 years when the statute of limitations was up and they wouldn't be able to charge him.

[Mastermind]

I say that because it is one thing to have two or even three men involved but you do not want to get too many people involved because it is harder to keep it a secret.

Agreed.

You probably only need two people for the actual robbery itself.

Now in terms of the planning and the selling or smuggling of the platinum. That could be complex and involve a couple more people.

I mean to me, the motives for Kerstetter being involved in this in some way, are huge. He at the time of his disappearance was 30 to 40 thousand dollars in debt. A large amount of debt by 1987 standards. He evidently was behind on several key payments, such as trailer payments and vehicle payments and various other bills that he owed. Plus he had been demoted out of the trade shop to a security guard where his pay was cut substantially and I think he was ticked off about that to say the least. Couple that with the large debt and I think he felt like he was going to stick it to Corning.

Great post, kardamas.

The elimination of the debts alone would be enough motive to lam it.

Being demoted would be more than enough personal motivation to steal from your employer.

[Hambone2421]

I just rewatched this case for the first time in almost 10 years and its just as confusing now as it was back then.

First, as most have already said, this case could go either way. I can make arguments for him being in on it and him being an innocent victim.

Dale's daughter posted on here that she and her friends would often stop by the plant on days her dad was working just to say hi. She said they would walk right in and say his name until he found them. That eliminates the possibility of needing a security pass to enter the plant. So, apparently, you can just walk in and out as you please and thus, the masked man could do the same. Also, I'm interested to know why the original security tapes were not shown on UM? UM has broadcast security surveillance of numerous things in the past, some of which have shown attacks and abductions, so why not show the actual footage to see if anyone out there recognized the masked man?

The segment said that Dale had recently been forced to take a pay cut which he wasn't happy about. Maybe during those round of pay cuts, there were also lay offs. Maybe this masked man was a former employee who had been laid off and was pissed off about it. This former employee presumably had worked there for long enough to know where everything was at, when the security guards did their rounds, ate lunch, carried a gun, etc..

Dale may have been stalked by the masked man that night and as soon as Dale sat down in the lunch room and put his gun down, the masked man made his move, knowing that he could get the gun from Dale. He may have came from behind and grabbed the gun. In all likelihood, the masked man was waiting for Dale to let his guard down so he could get the gun. Dale's daughter has said that she believes her dad would shoot to kill if he believed his life was in danger. In my mind, that would eliminate the possibility of the masked man attacking Dale and taking the gun. Also, some say that Dale's looking into the camera was either a look for help or a way of showing his bosses who was taking their platinum. When he looks into the camera, the gunman is looking to his right, I wonder why Dale didnt mouth "Help Me!" to the camera without saying it if he was indeed an innocent by standard?

I remember Stack saying that the masked man wasn't there very long and took most of the platinum almost immediately, alluding to him knowing where everything was which furthers the explanation of a former employee. One question I have is why during the security footage did it only show the masked man taking the platinum? Why wasn't Dale helping him if he was in on it and adversely, why wasn't Dale running off to get help when the masked man jumped on top of the gate to get into the platinum container. It seems like if Dale was really looking into the camera to stick it to his employers, then why wouldn't he help his accomplice get the platinum?

They stated during the broadcast that his shift started at 11pm and that the guard had to check in every hour, on the hour. Dale missed his 12am check in and every one after that. If Dale was in on this, it seems like he would have possibly planned it for later in the evening for fear of the guard alerting the police and then the police looking for Dale within hours of the crime being committed. Also, the fact that Dale's ex son in law brings up this friend of Dale's that obviously had money and got it from crooked ways, could inadvertently bring up a motive for Dale. Maybe Dale, seeing his debt climb, could not wait for his penchant any longer, and decided to have his friend come in with him and steal the platinum. Since his friend had probably done shady things like this before, he probably had or knew of a way to channel platinum through for money and decided to do it that way. Then once the accomplice realizes how much its worth, he kills Dale so that he doesn't have to split the worth.

Also, its possible that Dale is still alive, living off the money. His ex son in law had said on here that Dale had mentioned to him once of taking off and leaving everything behind.

Some would ask, well then why did he leave his truck, keys and lunch and why did he even pack a lunch if he was going to disappear? Well, for the exact reasons you are asking the questions. To make it look like he disappeared and to make it look less suspicious. I just wonder if Dale was a smart enough man to do all of this and allude captivity for all these years and stay away from his wife, kids and grandchildren without so much as a word to any of them.

Some questions that remain for me are:

1. Was Dale's body in the bag that we see being wheeled out?
2. If so, was he killed on the property and then dumped into the bag?
3. If not, why is it that the only footage shown of Dale is that of him looking at the camera?
4. If he was killed on the property, then I would wonder if the entire property was searched to see if there was a specific spot that showed possible signs of a struggle somewhere.
5. How did the masked man leave the premises without getting stopped by a guard or without anyone seeing him on the way out? Surely it wasn't just Dale and another guard on the property.

i really cant form an opinion one way or the other on this case but it seems like a man, who by all accounts was a family man, would have a hard time staying away from his family for all these years.

[Mastermind]

Well, for the exact reasons you are asking the questions. To make it look like he disappeared and to make it look less suspicious. I just wonder if Dale was a smart enough man to do all of this and allude captivity for all these years and stay away from his wife, kids and grandchildren without so much as a word to any of them.

To remove the metal, a truck would be needed. You have to assume that if Dale was in on it, he was riding in the masked man's truck. I'm pretty sure once the metal was dropped off, the truck could have been used to drive Dale to wherever he was planning to lam it.

So, apparently, you can just walk in and out as you please and thus, the masked man could do the same.

Agreed, breaking into the plant is no big deal, but finding the metal and getting out of the plant with it probably requires assistance on the inside.



2. If so, was he killed on the property and then dumped into the bag?

No bullet casings were found at the plant, no blood either.


3. If not, why is it that the only footage shown of Dale is that of him looking at the camera?

I remember Stack saying that the masked man wasn't there very long and took most of the platinum almost immediately, alluding to him knowing where everything was which furthers the explanation of a former employee. One question I have is why during the security footage did it only show the masked man taking the platinum? Why wasn't Dale helping him if he was in on it and adversely, why wasn't Dale running off to get help when the masked man jumped on top of the gate to get into the platinum container.

1.Perhaps after noticing the camera that time, Dale made a concerted effort to avoid the other cameras. To only have the masked man do it. Remember...dale doesn;t have a mask.

2. Giving Dales age, dale may not have wanted to or been capable of the heavy manual work of loading the metal. He may have left the work to his (presumably) younger accomplice. Which would explain why Dale needed the masked guy in the first place.

If one guy could have moved the metal all buy himself. Why would dale risk everything by bringing the masked guy in the first place. Dale could have moved the metal all by himself.

3. Dales may have been in the "getaway" car during the time the masked man was videotaped.

4. Dale may have been manning "lookout" at certain points in this caper.

5. there have to be a ton of blind spots in the camera security. Dale actually may have been in the vicinity but was not picked up. He may have made more of a concerted effort now to avoid the camera.

4. If he was killed on the property, then I would wonder if the entire property was searched to see if there was a specific spot that showed possible signs of a struggle somewhere.

Almost certainly.

Remember that they are looking not only for Dales body, but also evidence that may lead to the identity of the thieves.

5. How did the masked man leave the premises without getting stopped by a guard or without anyone seeing him on the way out? Surely it wasn't just Dale and another guard on the property.

1. I think the security may have been just that.

2. I also imagine that Dale would assist in finding the security weak spots.
as well as running interferance. Hence the advantages of having someone like Dale in on your theft.


i really cant form an opinion one way or the other on this case but it seems like a man, who by all accounts was a family man, would have a hard time staying away from his family for all these years.

1.Weren't his children grown up?

Its not like he had a newborn baby or anything.

2. As we have seen in UM, there have been "family men" that have done far worse crimes than what Dale Kerstetter was accused of.

3. he may have planned to return to his family but died of a heart attack while on the lam somewhere like Mexico.

When he looks into the camera, the gunman is looking to his right, I wonder why Dale didnt mouth "Help Me!" to the camera without saying it if he was indeed an innocent by standard?

1. Or use a hand sign. Even a wave. I wonder what the security protocol was (if any) for robbery.

I have to imagine that the possibility of a robbery like this was discussed numerouse times. Situations were the security guard has been co-opted.

Banks usually have a pre-arranged sign to indicate a robber is in place...wonder if there was something like that set up for the facility?

The segment said that Dale had recently been forced to take a pay cut which he wasn't happy about. Maybe during those round of pay cuts, there were also lay offs. Maybe this masked man was a former employee who had been laid off and was pissed off about it. This former employee presumably had worked there for long enough to know where everything was at, when the security guards did their rounds, ate lunch, carried a gun, etc..

Keep in mind that regardless whether you believe Dale is innocent or not...there was a conspiracy involved here. Someone had to buy the stolen platinum from the robbers. where there's a buyer...there are all types of shady characters potentially involved.(i.e. smugglers)

It's quite possible that the buyer initiated the theft, rather then the seller.
That someone that badly needed the platinum went through the company to find someone willing to do the theft.

I have to imagine that there was a buyer of the platinume already before the theft.

I seriously doubt that the thieves shopped around all this platinum for the highest and most willing bidder.

Someone wanted that platinum badly for their business.

2. Another thing to consider is that unless they sold it back to the original company...the thieves must have driven a pretty fair distance to sell the platinum.

Where there other plants in the area or county?

What was the nearest shipping port?

Everything in this case screams of the buyers finding the right employee(s) willing to do the job and potentially disappear indefinitely.

I have to imagine that Dale was approached at some point for this theft.

[Alvin Karpis]

Great thread!

As I have the day off I have been watching alot of segments I have not seen in years

Like Hambone I am also just as confused today as I was when I watched this segment years ago

I tend to think he was not in on it, but if thats the case he was most likley killed

Very interesting case and I love all the theories in this thread

[Hambone2421]

I have two more questions:

1. What is the statute of limitations in this case? I realize that its 7 years but my question is, what crime only has a 7 year statute? Theft?

2. When Dale was demoted/took a pay cut, did that wipe out his pension that he was due to receive in less than a year? If it didn't wipe it out, did it decrease its amount? If yes to either question, then that's motive enough for his presence in the theft.

[Mastermind]

I tend to think he was not in on it, but if thats the case he was most likley killed

1. The only reason to kill Dale is if he recognized the guy in the mask via his voice.

2. Unless the masked guy has another accomplice, it stands to reason that he would still have need for dale even after the stuff has been loaded. By killing Dale he loses his helper.

To me this is a huge point in this case. The masked man could have knocked Dale unconcious or tied him up well before coming into the camera's range.

The masked man apparently needed Dales help to pull of this caper.

3. I wonder if the robbery could have occured without the masked man running into Dale?
If you think about it...most major heists that involve goods like metals, alcohol, cigarettes, automobiles etc. happing without security even knowing about it.

Couldn;t these guys have made this robbery without have to run into a security guard?

[Hambone2421]

Maybe.

The real kicker for me is the fact that Dale Kerstetter is missing. It's the unique aspect in this case and the biggest clue in this case IMHO. To much of Dale missing indicates that he was either
1. Killed to silence him for his total knowledge of his involvement in the robbery.
2. He went on the lam to escape prosecution


Or he was an innocent bystandard who recognized the thief as a co-worker or maybe he just recognized him as someone he knew so that thief knew he had to kill him in order to keep him quiet.

[Mastermind]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
Maybe.

The real kicker for me is the fact that Dale Kerstetter is missing. It's the unique aspect in this case and the biggest clue in this case IMHO. To much of Dale missing indicates that he was either
1. Killed to silence him for his total knowledge of his involvement in the robbery.
2. He went on the lam to escape prosecution

Or he was an innocent bystandard who recognized the thief as a co-worker or maybe he just recognized him as someone he knew so that thief knew he had to kill him in order to keep him quiet.

In that scenario:

1. We are assusming that the masked man was someone that Dale knew.

2. Dale would have had to have recognized him by voice alone, since the guy was wearing a mask.

3. We are assuming that possibility of Dale recognizing him, was a possibility that the masked man or his employers never took into consideration. I would have to think that possibility crossed their minds at some point in this caper.

4. That the masked man was armed. This is more of a heist than an armed robbery. You only need a weapon if the security guard is going to be a problem.

IMHO, i don't think the masked man was armed at all. he didn;t need the weapon.

5. We have to assume that Dale did an unintelligent move in informing the masked man that he knew who he was. I would think Dale would be smarter to keep that knowledge to himself until after the heist. Revealing that you know the masked man's identity would be akin to suicide.

6. We have to assume that Dale told the masked man that he knew who he was....well after the incident with the camera. It makes no sense that they would be on such good terms after Dale saying 'Wait I know who you are".

7. The buyers are not going to be too happy with the fact that they have taken part in murder. If these buyers are smugglers, they may go back on the deal and decide to "clean things up a little". This idea had to running through the masked man's head throughout this caper. In fact, i would argue that not killing anyone was of the utmost importance throughout this whole theft.

After all, they could always rob the place some other time. I doubt the security would be that much tougher the next time.

[Hambone2421]

There are other things that strike me as fishy. The fact that the plant was sold shortly after the robbery (likely, the sale process had already begun, as sales as big as this one tend to take several months to close), combined with the fact that the stolen platinum apparently never surfaced, makes me wonder if someone further up at Corning plotted the robbery for insurance purposes--perhaps an attempt to squeeze a little more cash out of a plant that was soon to be disposed of. If Dale's daughter is correct (and I have no reason to doubt her), the lapse in Dale's check-ins being igorned for several hours also seems to indicate that someone further up the food chain knew something was going on.

This is a good point and a good theory. Its just as plausible as the ones we are coming up with. The check in's going unnoticed, along with a "new" hire (seems convenient to blame the lack of check ins on a mistake by a newbie. Possibly that newbie was put there purposely and not told of the check ins.) manning the check in booth. Its quite possible that Dale was raising enough hell about being demoted/taking a pay cut that the higher ups used him a scapegoat. It would also explain the supervisors straight sandbagging him on UM. Possibly trying to say that they know it was him. This robbery could have been done for insurance reasons, which explains the masked man wearing a mask and Dale Kersetter not wearing a mask. The higher ups may have told them that "he's just an old man, but if he gives you trouble, take care of it."

I'm not saying this is what happened but its just as good a scenario as any other out there.

But, on the other hand, this robbery could have been what put the company out of business and the higher ups may not have had a thing to do with it. This may be the best Unsolved Mystery in the history of the show purely because no one can give a definitive answer as to what happened and why.

[Hambone2421]

6. We have to assume that Dale told the masked man that he knew who he was....well after the incident with the camera. It makes no sense that they would be on such good terms after Dale saying 'Wait I know who you are".

Mastermind, lets say you and I are old friends, working in a company for a while when all of the sudden while I (security guard) am on my nightly routine and you (masked man) suprise me and say something along the lines of "do exactly what I say and you wont get hurt". I may recognize your voice and say "Mastermind? Is that you?" Inadvertently, I just alerted you that I know who you are. You may have been planning on letting me go but now you may have to improvise since I've outed you.

Maybe Dale knew the masked man and thought it was some sort of joke and called to him by name and said "Johnny, don't joke like that, you nearly scarred me to death." Then Johnny knows he has been ID'd. He may have knocked Dale out by hitting him over the head or something out of camera view which would explain why we don't see Dale again in any surveillance video after he looks into the camera. If Dale is innocent, when the masked man came in and started talking, I highly doubt he said" I know who you are Johnny!!"

Again, I'm not saying Dale is innocent. I honestly don't know what to think. I'm just playing each side at this point.

[Mastermind]

Mastermind, lets say you and I are old friends, working in a company for a while when all of the sudden while I (security guard) am on my nightly routine and you (masked man) suprise me and say something along the lines of "do exactly what I say and you wont get hurt". I may recognize your voice and say "Mastermind? Is that you?" Inadvertently, I just alerted you that I know who you are. You may have been planning on letting me go but now you may have to improvise since I've outed you.

1. I'm also wearing a wool mask covering my mouth.(I think it was covering the mouth??) Which has to muffle the sound a tad.

2. I think your being a little too mild with the threat..I think I would probably put the gun directly in your face and say "LISTEN! ONE WORD, ONE MOVE AND YOUR A F%^KING DEAD MAN!!!!!!! :lol: I don;t know what your experience with such threats are, but I do wonder if you would calmly be able to register much.

3. If there was someone else in the room, I might be a little more worried that you blurted my name, but since were alone. Your the only one that heard it.

4. If were good friends....then I probably know where you live. So it's not like I don;t have the option of killing you and threatening you later/ i could easily say "Listen, I know where you live and I know you have a beautiful wife and kids. Even if I go to jail, I will make sure your daughter(s) and wife are brutally raped before they were killed. All I want is the platinum from this g@da%n company. keep your mouth shut and nothing happens. Nod if you understand. Okay....let's get to work.

5. If were really good friends, I have to imagine that while planning this robbery and realizing that you were working at the very place i was robbing...that I might actually attempt to co-opt you into this plan. After all you are my best friend and the company screwed you over. Why not help my best buddy get some change. Heck, I need an accomplice.....who's a better accomplice than a friend tht works at the place I'm trying to rob? :confused:

6. So what if you recognize my voice??? That hardly makes you the ideal witness. Now if you saw my face and my face was caught on the camera then I'm screwed. But all I have is some old security guard with a grudge against the company (who probably has bad hearing) who thinks that he recognized my voice......THROUGH A WOOL MASK COVERING THE PERPS MOUTH....

[Mastermind]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharonite
There are other things that strike me as fishy. The fact that the plant was sold shortly after the robbery (likely, the sale process had already begun, as sales as big as this one tend to take several months to close), combined with the fact that the stolen platinum apparently never surfaced, makes me wonder if someone further up at Corning plotted the robbery for insurance purposes--perhaps an attempt to squeeze a little more cash out of a plant that was soon to be disposed of. If Dale's daughter is correct (and I have no reason to doubt her), the lapse in Dale's check-ins being igorned for several hours also seems to indicate that someone further up the food chain knew something was going on.

This is a good point and a good theory. Its just as plausible as the ones we are coming up with

JMHO, but I think it's a little less plausible than the other theories.

1. First of all it's a much more complex conspiracy involving that involves not only a robbery, but
a. insurance fraud
b. a coverup of evidence
c. attempted setup of a patsy
d. the premeditated murder of a patsy/whistleblower in Dale Kertetter

A plot worth of a JFK assasination theory.

[Hambone2421]

1. I'm also wearing a wool mask covering my mouth.(I think it was covering the mouth??) Which has to muffle the sound a tad.

2. I think your being a little too mild with the threat..I think I would probably put the gun directly in your face and say "LISTEN! ONE WORD, ONE MOVE AND YOUR A F%^KING DEAD MAN!!!!!!! :lol: I don;t know what your experience with such threats are, but I do wonder if you would calmly be able to register much.

3. If there was someone else in the room, I might be a little more worried that you blurted my name, but since were alone. Your the only one that heard it.

4. If were good friends....then I probably know where you live. So it's not like I don;t have the option of killing you and threatening you later/ i could easily say "Listen, I know where you live and I know you have a beautiful wife and kids. Even if I go to jail, I will make sure your daughter(s) and wife are brutally raped before they were killed. All I want is the platinum from this g@da%n company. keep your mouth shut and nothing happens. Nod if you understand. Okay....let's get to work.

5. If were really good friends, I have to imagine that while planning this robbery and realizing that you were working at the very place i was robbing...that I might actually attempt to co-opt you into this plan. After all you are my best friend and the company screwed you over. Why not help my best buddy get some change. Heck, I need an accomplice.....who's a better accomplice than a friend tht works at the place I'm trying to rob? :confused:

6. So what if you recognize my voice??? That hardly makes you the ideal witness. Now if you saw my face and my face was caught on the camera then I'm screwed. But all I have is some old security guard with a grudge against the company (who probably has bad hearing) who thinks that he recognized my voice......THROUGH A WOOL MASK COVERING THE PERPS MOUTH....

Your missing my point. If this masked man was a previous employee, then he obviously knows Dale since Dale has worked there for 27 years. If you think that you cant recognize someones voice through a ski mask, then that's fine, but there are people out there who can. You're assuming Dale's old age is preventing him from recognizing a potential ex coworkers voice.

This masked man may have not intended to kill Dale but maybe Dale fought back and killed him in the process. Plus I highly doubt that the masked man would be sitting there thinking "well, if Dale tells the cops its me, they may disregard it because he's old and there's no way he could recognize my voice under this wool mask." He probably didn't want to take any chances.

Again, I'm not saying he is an innocent co-worker. I'm just saying that if he were, this could have been what happened.

[kane7474]

The company screwed him after he worked there 25 plus years. Thats the real theft as far as Im concerned. I think they should prosecute them and not him. I hope he was in on it and I hope he enjoyed all that money and had a great life. We need more workers like Dale to stand up to corporate terrorism. Dale is a hero in my book any day.

[Mastermind]

This masked man may have not intended to kill Dale but maybe Dale fought back and killed him in the process. Plus I highly doubt that the masked man would be sitting there thinking "well, if Dale tells the cops its me, they may disregard it because he's old and there's no way he could recognize my voice under this wool mask." He probably didn't want to take any chances.

But how could he not be prepared for that possibility?

He's robbing the plant that his friend Dale works for and needs to hold up a security guard to assist in the robbery.

How could he not have been prepared for the possibility of Dale recognizing him?

Your missing my point. If this masked man was a previous employee, then he obviously knows Dale since Dale has worked there for 27 years. If you think that you cant recognize someones voice through a ski mask, then that's fine, but there are people out there who can. You're assuming Dale's old age is preventing him from recognizing a potential ex coworkers voice.


1. It should be pointed out in your example that your using a 'close friend" as the perp.

Just because your a co-worker doesn;t necessarily mean your a friend.

2. Just because your work in the plant doesn;t mean that you interact.
How many employees worked at the plant? If it;s a large amount, there could be people in that plant that Dale never shared more than two words with.

3. Your assuming the masked man needs to be an employee of the plant. Whether willingly or unwillingly, Dale is perfect guide for the robbery.
He can provide all the information that the robber would need.

4. Military style Balaclava ski masks by nature are designed to reduce smoke inhalation. I have to imagine that type of quality material has quite an effect on distorting voice qualities.
Isn;t that one of the many reasons why there popular in criminal and covert activities in the first place?

[Mastermind]

Any military guys or hunters that can vouch on the voice distortion effects of wearing a balaclava?

[bell83]

But how could he not be prepared for that possibility?

He's robbing the plant that his friend Dale works for and needs to hold up a security guard to assist in the robbery.

How could he not have been prepared for the possibility of Dale recognizing him?




1. It should be pointed out in your example that your using a 'close friend" as the perp.

Just because your a co-worker doesn;t necessarily mean your a friend.

2. Just because your work in the plant doesn;t mean that you interact.
How many employees worked at the plant? If it;s a large amount, there could be people in that plant that Dale never shared more than two words with.

3. Your assuming the masked man needs to be an employee of the plant. Whether willingly or unwillingly, Dale is perfect guide for the robbery.
He can provide all the information that the robber would need.

4. Military style Balaclava ski masks by nature are designed to reduce smoke inhalation. I have to imagine that type of quality material has quite an effect on distorting voice qualities.
Isn;t that one of the many reasons why there popular in criminal and covert activities in the first place?

I have to especially agree with point number two. There were jobs I worked at for years without even saying so much as a word to certain other employees, usually because they were on shifts different than mine, and these weren't even large facilities. Just because someone used to work with someone doesn't necessarily mean they know him, nor does it mean they'd recognize his voice.

As for the balaclava's voice distorting abilities...it's been my own experience that the distortion is minimal. If you know the person's voice, regularly, you'll generally recognize it with a balaclava on. I think the big reason they're so popular for crime is simply because they hide the face. Just my .02.

[Mastermind]

1.Does anyone know how heavy and how big that amount of platinum is?
Could your average pickup truck carry it?

Or would you need something like a flatbed, dumptruck or peter-built? Uhaul maybe?

2. Where there no cameras outside the building? Why was the truck never captured on camera?

3. I have to assume that the platinum was sold almost directly after the theft. Which means they could have driven quite a few miles

Or even met up with someone at a pre-arranged area to switch it from truck to truck.

If not where would they store the platinum? a barn?

[kadrmas15]

Well, a 7 year statute of limitations is not unusual. In fact I am surprised the statute was even that long. It differs by state. But for a lot of felonies the statute of limitations is 5 years or less. I cannot speak about Pennsylvania but I know in Florida (the state whose laws I am most familiar with) they have many different statutes. The statute of limitations for a first degree felony which is a felony punishable by up to 30 years in prison, things like aggravated manslaughter of a child, aggravated child abuse, accessory after the fact to first degree murder, things like that, the statute of limitations is 4 years. The statute of limitations for bringing up all other felonies, second degree felonies which are punishable by up to 15 years in prison and third degree felonies punishable by up to 5 years in prison have a statute of limitations of three years. In Florida, the only felonies that do not have statute of limitations are capital felonies or so called 'life felonies' where you can get less than life but the maximum penalty is life in prison these include first and second degree murder, capital sexual battery (rape of a child under the age of 12) kidnapping, things like that do not have a statute of limitations but most felonies do fall under the statute of limitations at least in Florida. Virginia does not have a statute of limitations on any felony.

[Mastermind]

Well, a 7 year statute of limitations is not unusual. In fact I am surprised the statute was even that long. It differs by state. But for a lot of felonies the statute of limitations is 5 years or less. I cannot speak about Pennsylvania but I know in Florida (the state whose laws I am most familiar with) they have many different statutes. The statute of limitations for a first degree felony which is a felony punishable by up to 30 years in prison, things like aggravated manslaughter of a child, aggravated child abuse, accessory after the fact to first degree murder, things like that, the statute of limitations is 4 years. The statute of limitations for bringing up all other felonies, second degree felonies which are punishable by up to 15 years in prison and third degree felonies punishable by up to 5 years in prison have a statute of limitations of three years. In Florida, the only felonies that do not have statute of limitations are capital felonies or so called 'life felonies' where you can get less than life but the maximum penalty is life in prison these include first and second degree murder, capital sexual battery (rape of a child under the age of 12) kidnapping, things like that do not have a statute of limitations but most felonies do fall under the statute of limitations at least in Florida. Virginia does not have a statute of limitations on any felony.

What about interstate trafficking or smuggling of goods?

Like say you were caught driving goods across the Canadian Border?

[kadrmas15]

Well that would be under federal law, I would have to look it up. Most federal crimes though have statute of limitations too and they are shorter than 7 years.

[Hambone2421]

I'm assuming that the platinum was never found but I wonder how closely they looked? I'm sure that they monitored it as best they could but I highly doubt that whoever stole the platinum, did so for reasons if keeping the platinum. It was obviously sold somewhere for a hefty price.

[youngUMfan]

I think someone at the company had something to do with the disappearance. Plus, Dale is a relatively easy person who is a security guard, so he is not very visible in the company. And Dale also had troubles with the company. all evidence opinting to something with the company

[Hambone2421]

I think someone at the company had something to do with the disappearance. Plus, Dale is a relatively easy person who is a security guard, so he is not very visible in the company. And Dale also had troubles with the company. all evidence opinting to something with the company

As I've said before, I can see a point to be made for each scenario. For him being in on it and for him being innocent. I can also see a point to be made for the company "robbing themselves" to collect on the insurance.

One other question I have is, is that the only surveillance camera in the facility? If not, then why didn't any other cameras pick up Dale that night before or after he met with the masked man? If they did pick him up, did it show any additional information? The supervisor seems adamant that the video he watched showed Dale as a co-conspirator, but nothing I saw would definitively say that. Im wondering if there are more surveillance cameras or perhaps more footage that his supervisor saw that we have not seen.

[youngUMfan]

I think there might be more video cameras but only that particular video camera captured him. Therefore, that would be another good question Hambone asked.

Another thought of mine was if someone has access to newspaper archives, look up the price of platinum trading around the time of his disappearance. Then, try to see if the price was considered a historical low or high, and then see if there are any correlations with the platinum price and the disappearance

[Mastermind]

Another thought of mine was if someone has access to newspaper archives, look up the price of platinum trading around the time of his disappearance. Then, try to see if the price was considered a historical low or high, and then see if there are any correlations with the platinum price and the disappearance

The black market makes that a moot point.

If there was an underground market demand for the platinum they could sell it for way above market value.

Again, there are several embargoed countries and companies within those countries that could use the platinum.

[Mastermind]

As I've said before, I can see a point to be made for each scenario. For him being in on it and for him being innocent. I can also see a point to be made for the company "robbing themselves" to collect on the insurance.

There's a much easier theory.

That the platinum was sold back to them by the robbers. Wouldn;t be the first time that robbers sold what they stole back to the original victim.

I'm assuming that the platinum was never found but I wonder how closely they looked? I'm sure that they monitored it as best they could but I highly doubt that whoever stole the platinum, did so for reasons if keeping the platinum. It was obviously sold somewhere for a hefty price.

1. As I've said before, there had to have been a buyer in place before the heist. As to whether the buyer or the thieves initiated the heist..that remains to be seen..

2. There are several countries that were under embargo at that time that could use platinum. So it is quite possible that platinum could be sent as far as that. It may have been used to build military weapons.

It could be as simple as the thieves sold the platinum to a smuggling operation on a port and the platinum got shipped to god knows where. Maybe North Korea.

I think someone at the company had something to do with the disappearance. Plus, Dale is a relatively easy person who is a security guard, so he is not very visible in the company. And Dale also had troubles with the company. all evidence opinting to something with the company

Are you suggesting that Dale was setup as a patsy by Corning?

[Guardian]

This is one of those cases that has bothered me since I was a kid. I don't think I have ever felt that he was involved in the heist in any way.

I just recently viewed the segment and one thing jumped out at me that I had not seen before. When they show the police dogs searching for Dale's scent in the factory, they show and mention in narrative that his scent was followed to "the tank" which they note as odd because "the tank" was not part of his normal rounds. A few moments later they show the reenactment of the security tapes. The masked man is seen (by himself) at "the tank". Now I know these security tapes are reconstructed, but if what moneypenny says about the reenactment being very close to the original tape, then we can assume this footage at the tank is also accurate. Now, the question comes to mind, if Dale's scent was followed to the tank, where is the security tape showing him at the tank? Does anyone find this odd that this is not mentioned in the segment? If the platinum was taken from this area of the tank, the camera should show the platinum being taken right?

[Guardian]

wow, folks are quite on this one...

[bluejazz87]

wow, folks are quite on this one...
Not really. It's been talked about to death. The consensus among most folks is that he was a victim to a heist and probably met with foul play at some point during the operation. I have the same opinion about this as with most unsolved cases, and that is the most likely scenario based on the evidence available is most likely what had occurred. We'll never know the entire truth of what happened with this case seeing as it's around 20 years old, and Dale's family has most likely moved on and probably accepted that.

[MegtheEgg86]

wow, folks are quite on this one...

Yeah, it's getting bumped a lot lately. Contrary to what the above poster claims, I think the evidence is very ambiguous and doesn't necessarily point to Dale being a victim. And I think a lot of members here are very "fifty-fifty" on this case, but lean slightly towards the victim angle because of how close he was to his family, the forklift ordeal many years before, etc.


Concerning your previous post about Dale's scent being followed to "the tank" but having no video footage of him being there, I'd never once thought about that before. Maybe it was there before and UM decided to cut that portion from their reenactment. Perhaps they assumed if viewers knew his scent was traced to the tank, his going there was probably recorded as well, but for timing reasons or some such thing they decided to omit it.

Of course, I could be completely off mark and you may be on to something. It's hard to discern.

[Guardian]

It just got me thinking that maybe if the dog tracked him there, but he was never picked up on the camera, could it be possible that the dog was either following the masked man's scent, or perhaps if the masked man carried Kerstetter's body out, perhaps the scent lingered on him? Is that possible to transfer a scent?

It also seems possible given what has come up on this board about the company possibly covering something up, that if Kerstetter was seen on the tape, perhaps they withheld it from the police. As to why, I couldn't say for sure. I just find it odd that it wasn't at least mentioned in the narrative even if time was an issue in the segment.

Has anyone seen any news articles of this incident online anywhere? I would appreciate it if anyone has any additional info. I haven't been able to find much on it.

[Guardian]

Another thing comes to mind, if Kerstetter were in on the robbery, it doesn't make a lot of sense. They said in the segment that 250,000 in platinum was taken. Yes, this is a lot of money, even more so by standards back then as opposed to now, but if you take into account that there were at least 2 people involved (if you assume Kerstetter was involved) then that money would be in theory divided in half. 125,000 is a lot, but it sure doesn't seem like enough to just vanish and leave your whole family and start a new life. Even if he managed to flee to Mexico where the money might go a lot further, it just doesn't seem like enough to just give your life up for. I don't know, I don't think he was in on it. I think he is a victim.

[Hambone2421]

Something just occurred to me on this case. In the re-enactment of the surveillance video, it shows the masked man pushing what was rumored to possibly be the body of Dale Kerstetter. One question I have about that theory is, was he pushing it int he direction of the exit? Was that the only exit in the plant? The reason i ask this is because during the segment when it shows Dale on the video, it says that he wasn't seen on the video again after he disappears from sight. Well if there was only one exit and the masked man was pushing that crate toward the only exit, one would have to assume it was Dale's body since that's the only exit and it doesn't show Dale walking toward the exit.

[Guardian]

My guess is, and i have actually been doing some research on this lately, but if you assume at least that the masked man was pushing (whatever was on the pallet jack) towards an exit, then it is possible that it is the platinum and only the platinum on that pallet jack.

If that is indeed toward an exit, it is also the same direction that Dale and the masked man are headed when Dale looks at the camera. I suggest that if Dale is innocent, and you take the order of events as they are described in the segment (not the order in which they are shown as they show the pieces out of order if you listen carefully to the narrative) then Dale was led out of the exit where he was then dealt with one way or another, and then the masked man went back in (this is described but not shown in the segment) and then goes up to "the tank" area. He is next seen pushing the pallet jack out (the same direction and location as he led Dale earlier).

The UM segment shows the sequences slightly out of order. If you pay close attention to the narrative however, it is possible to piece this scenario together and in my opinion, this points more and more to Dale being nothing but a victim. Or at the least an accomplice that was (I mean no disrespect as I know Dale's family sometimes looks at these posts, I just know of no other way of putting it) dealt with or taken out of the situation completely.

[TracyLynnS]

For such a big company, Corning was doing an unbelievably lousy job managing their business, their property, and their staff. That particular building was being sold, corning was downsizing, cutting jobs, restructuring jobs, demoting people, and cutting salaries.

I'd like to know how many at the management level received pay cuts or lost their jobs. They're really the only ones in a position to juggle things around so they don't suffer the same fate as the blue collar guys.

We've seen with the recent disasters of big companies that the lower level working people take the biggest financial hit while the middle and upper management collect as many bonuses and perks as they can milk out of the place before the whole thing collapses.

The corning plant was about 115,000 to 120,000 square feet, IIRC. It's full of valuables, including the platinum. And their "security" is a demoted guy who's been given a pay cut just before retirement and who management describes as "a marginal employee".

Out of everyone who got demoted or lost their job, corning could only find a marginal employee to take the security guard position? Then, they back him up with a new guy who didn't know that Dale was supposed to make hourly check ins? Who was training these people? Lack of training is management's fault. New hires have to be informed about what their job duties are. Seems pretty basic, but corning couldn't even get that right.

This large corporation apparently had no policies in place to protect their staff and their property. I used to work in a two man office that never had more than $150 in cash in the building and only one computer (the only thing worth stealing) and we had much tighter security than corning.

I've mentioned on here before that I temped at a car dealership back in 2005. That company was going out of business, having their franchises yanked by the manufacturers, they were cutting salaries, firing, and demoting people, But management lived it up until the very end. In the last 6 months, the upper management took one vacation per month, vegas, florida, etc, and charged it to the company until they were completely broke.

Their security was also horrible. They had 10 acres and 4 buildings. Their security cameras were dummys that didn't record anything, yet the manager had a jacuzzi tub in his office. Priorities.... IMO, there's no excuse for fake security cameras in 2005, in a company worth millions of dollars, with so much property at risk, and a couple hundred employees doing everything from paperwork and handling large amounts of cash to repairing huge vehicles sitting over their heads on leaking hydraulic hoists.

There's a part of a car that contains platinum. I think it's a catalytic converter. Well, not surprisingly, one night at the unguarded lot full of new vehicles, several of the cars were vandalized and the platinum was stolen. (However, the joke was kinda on the thieves because they were so inept that they stole fairly worthless mufflers instead of the part containing the platinum.)

My point is, management knows the risks. They know what's on the property that can be targeted by thieves. In platinum alone, corning had hundreds of thousand of dollars worth of material, but guarded it (and everything else) with a low paid guy who they apparently didn't like and didn't trust, and they didn't even have a back up plan.

If the "new guy" didn't know about the hourly security check in procedure, what was he doing with his time on the job? Management needs to account for that, too. Why are they wasting company money by paying an untrained staff member to sit and do nothing all night?

After they fail to put anything in place to protect their property and their staff, they lose the most valuable things in the plant, the platinum and possibly a human life. The only thing they can come up with is to make Dale out to be the thief by saying he was taunting them by briefly staring at the security camera. That's it? That's all the evidence they have against Dale? He was unhappy with the pay cut and stared briefly at a security camera while in the company of an unidentified masked intruder who possibly held a weapon.

IMO, the management in the UM segment came across as trying to shift blame and cover their butts. They didn't protect their most valuable assets, and didn't provide even the basics of a safe working environment for Dale.

Remember the hot molten glass pouring onto the propane tank of the forklift? Why was that potentially deadly scenario even possible? There had to be multiple failures for that to even occur. And who saved several lives in that mishap? Dale. Who, while receiving a low salary to protect their expensive platinum, was possibly kidnapped and killed. They're terrified that the family is going to figure out their negligence and sue them. If they can turn Dale into a suspect or a co-conspirator, the heat is off them and attention is diverted to the missing employee who literally left everything behind.

[TracyLynnS]

http://www.corning.com/about_us/corporate_citizenship/index.aspx

Found that page on the Corning official website. Considering how they ran the plant where Dale worked, I thought this crowing statement about their values and ethics was interesting:

At Corning Incorporated, corporate social responsibility is a proactive commitment to preserving the trust of our stakeholders. The commitment contributes to sustainable economic and environmental development through all our business activities – how we operate, what we sell, how we give, and how we support our people, the communities in which we operate, and society at large.

Corporate social responsibility is intrinsic to Corning’s heritage and it is integral to how we build value and trust in our company. It is also a demonstration of how we live our Values which represent the unchanging moral and ethical compass that guides everything we do. Our collective belief in these Values – and in the behavior that goes along with them – continues to guide all of our decisions as a company. As a result, our employees, shareholders, suppliers, and customers can take pride in associating with Corning.

Our commitment to corporate citizenship has been part of the very essence of our company for more than 150 years; it will sustain our success today, tomorrow, and far into the future.

[TracyLynnS]

Someone in a previous post mentioned the glass furnace. I found this on the WebSlueths site. It corrects my recollection of the size of the facility, and makes me wonder if Dale ever left the plant at all.

If the furnace area wasn't part of his normal rounds, why was his scent located there? He wasn't seen on the security camera in the tank area stealing the pipe, only the masked man was shown. How much of that furnace "tank" area did the security camera cover? How did the thief cut up the platinum piping and how large and heavy of a load did it turn out to be? Did the company release ALL of the security footage to the police?

>>>>That afternoon, the sheriff's K-9 unit was brought in to track Dale's movements in the 112,000-square-foot factory. The dogs led police to the second floor. This was the site of the plant's glass furnace, also known as "the tank." The tank contained the valuable platinum pipe but was not part of Dale's normal security rounds. Even though Dale's scent was found near the tank, he was nowhere in the building.<<<<

Edit to add this:

The investigator, Inspector Max J. Bizzak said, "Through our investigation we determined Dale Kerstetter was approximately $30,000 to $40,000 in arrears on various payments--trailer payments, vehicle payments and, different bills which he had owed throughout the area."

Was Dale really "in arrears" for 30 to 40k, which means that he was late with that much money, or did he simply have loans in that amount that he was making timely payments on? IIRC, his daughter made a comment that he had a mortgage (and maybe a vehicle loan) which accounted for the debt and that it was a normal kind of debt like everyone else who has a home or cars.

If he was really that late on is debts, why didn't he cash in his corning stock or other investments and bring his bills up to date? (Assuming he had a decent amount invested.) Why wasn't anything repossessed? Why would a lending company allow someone to get that far behind in payments without taking strong action?

[TracyLynnS]

One other question I have is, is that the only surveillance camera in the facility? If not, then why didn't any other cameras pick up Dale that night before or after he met with the masked man? If they did pick him up, did it show any additional information? The supervisor seems adamant that the video he watched showed Dale as a co-conspirator, but nothing I saw would definitively say that. Im wondering if there are more surveillance cameras or perhaps more footage that his supervisor saw that we have not seen.

Hambone, I went to the websleuths site this morning and read a post there that said the facility was 112,000 square feet and they only had 3 cameras to cover that huge building.

Since the theft occurred in 1987, I'm assuming that the security video technology wasn't all that great. Maybe they just aimed those 3 cameras toward the areas that they thought were in greater need of surveillance.

I'm still surprised that such a large national corporation with so many locations, employees, valuable materials, varying products, and that considered themselves to be innovators in their particular fields, wasn't leading the country in utilizing that kind of security technology.

[MegtheEgg86]

Remember the hot molten glass pouring onto the propane tank of the forklift? Why was that potentially deadly scenario even possible? There had to be multiple failures for that to even occur. And who saved several lives in that mishap? Dale. Who, while receiving a low salary to protect their expensive platinum, was possibly kidnapped and killed. They're terrified that the family is going to figure out their negligence and sue them. If they can turn Dale into a suspect or a co-conspirator, the heat is off them and attention is diverted to the missing employee who literally left everything behind.

That's an excellent point. I've never considered that before.


I've always felt Corning's corporate and Lisa Penz from the Bonnie Wilder segment had much in common: they feel a great need to shift responsibility away from themselves because they're either personally insecure and/or they legitimately have something to hide about their own practices. It definitely isn't very becoming.

[peachysquirt21]

Given what they had in there plant, they should have had more security people working then what they did.

[MissFit29]

Tracy - I agree with EVERYTHING you said. I think that scenario makes the most sense. There is absolutely no proof that Dale was a co-conspirator, and the management dudes in the interview were just jerks. And yeah, if you had all that platinum to protect, take measures to protect it! Totally an inside job - they knew the tank wasn't on the security rounds, they probably didn't think that they would even be noticed. It's a maddening case.

[TracyLynnS]

OFF TOPIC

I've always felt Corning's corporate and Lisa Penz from the Bonnie Wilder segment had much in common: they feel a great need to shift responsibility away from themselves because they're either personally insecure and/or they legitimately have something to hide about their own practices. It definitely isn't very becoming.

I agree, it's a very similar scenario. Ms. Penz had a big responsibility and goofed up by not checking Bonnie Wilder's references when she hired her. Then disaster struck, untraceable company money was taken, and Lisa Penz's ID was likely stolen by Bonnie. Then she goes on and on about how it's basically not her fault. Yeah right, and I'm Michael Jordan and I used to play for the Chicago bulls. :rotflmao:

When I had to resign to relocate with my husband's new job, I was required to find my own replacement. I interviewed a lot of people, and hired two on a "trial basis". I had to fire the first one, who turned out to be a know it all who was constantly telling the owner, the medical provider, how to do her job. But the second hire worked out fine and all went smoothly after that.

Believe, me, I checked the references of every interviewee. It's tedious, but it's got to be done. In our situation, not a lot of money was as stake, but we had patient files that were so full of personal identifying information that we couldn't employ someone who would be capable of exploiting that knowledge. I was morally and ethically obligated to hire someone who the patients could trust.

And honestly, what nerve Lisa Penz had going on and on and on about Big Bonnie's unattractive features when Lisa's own eyeballs were literally staring at each other throughout the entire segment.

[egswanso]

I don't think Dale was involved.

As portrayed in the segment, Dale was a pretty simple guy who was close to his family. Masterminding a platinum robbery doesn't seen in character. Based on the little information given in the segment, I do think the robber may have been a current or former employee - which, if Dale could have identified him, would have been motive for murder (really, there's no other reason to have killed Dale, since he could have easily been disabled (he wasn't a large man). If Dale was involved, I suspect he was double-crossed; perhaps promised some $ to help and then killed (although the motive for this really doesn't make much sense, IMO).

I suppose the primary reason I think Dale was innocent was based on what his son said. If he had anything to do with the crime, the SOL blew in 1994. He'd have no reason NOT to come back (or at least contact his family). That he hasn't done so is, to me at least, good proof he's deceased.

[Hambone2421]

For such a big company, Corning was doing an unbelievably lousy job managing their business, their property, and their staff. That particular building was being sold, corning was downsizing, cutting jobs, restructuring jobs, demoting people, and cutting salaries.

I'd like to know how many at the management level received pay cuts or lost their jobs. They're really the only ones in a position to juggle things around so they don't suffer the same fate as the blue collar guys.

We've seen with the recent disasters of big companies that the lower level working people take the biggest financial hit while the middle and upper management collect as many bonuses and perks as they can milk out of the place before the whole thing collapses.

The corning plant was about 115,000 to 120,000 square feet, IIRC. It's full of valuables, including the platinum. And their "security" is a demoted guy who's been given a pay cut just before retirement and who management describes as "a marginal employee".

Out of everyone who got demoted or lost their job, corning could only find a marginal employee to take the security guard position? Then, they back him up with a new guy who didn't know that Dale was supposed to make hourly check ins? Who was training these people? Lack of training is management's fault. New hires have to be informed about what their job duties are. Seems pretty basic, but corning couldn't even get that right.

This large corporation apparently had no policies in place to protect their staff and their property. I used to work in a two man office that never had more than $150 in cash in the building and only one computer (the only thing worth stealing) and we had much tighter security than corning.

I've mentioned on here before that I temped at a car dealership back in 2005. That company was going out of business, having their franchises yanked by the manufacturers, they were cutting salaries, firing, and demoting people, But management lived it up until the very end. In the last 6 months, the upper management took one vacation per month, vegas, florida, etc, and charged it to the company until they were completely broke.

Their security was also horrible. They had 10 acres and 4 buildings. Their security cameras were dummys that didn't record anything, yet the manager had a jacuzzi tub in his office. Priorities.... IMO, there's no excuse for fake security cameras in 2005, in a company worth millions of dollars, with so much property at risk, and a couple hundred employees doing everything from paperwork and handling large amounts of cash to repairing huge vehicles sitting over their heads on leaking hydraulic hoists.

There's a part of a car that contains platinum. I think it's a catalytic converter. Well, not surprisingly, one night at the unguarded lot full of new vehicles, several of the cars were vandalized and the platinum was stolen. (However, the joke was kinda on the thieves because they were so inept that they stole fairly worthless mufflers instead of the part containing the platinum.)

My point is, management knows the risks. They know what's on the property that can be targeted by thieves. In platinum alone, corning had hundreds of thousand of dollars worth of material, but guarded it (and everything else) with a low paid guy who they apparently didn't like and didn't trust, and they didn't even have a back up plan.

If the "new guy" didn't know about the hourly security check in procedure, what was he doing with his time on the job? Management needs to account for that, too. Why are they wasting company money by paying an untrained staff member to sit and do nothing all night?

After they fail to put anything in place to protect their property and their staff, they lose the most valuable things in the plant, the platinum and possibly a human life. The only thing they can come up with is to make Dale out to be the thief by saying he was taunting them by briefly staring at the security camera. That's it? That's all the evidence they have against Dale? He was unhappy with the pay cut and stared briefly at a security camera while in the company of an unidentified masked intruder who possibly held a weapon.

IMO, the management in the UM segment came across as trying to shift blame and cover their butts. They didn't protect their most valuable assets, and didn't provide even the basics of a safe working environment for Dale.

Remember the hot molten glass pouring onto the propane tank of the forklift? Why was that potentially deadly scenario even possible? There had to be multiple failures for that to even occur. And who saved several lives in that mishap? Dale. Who, while receiving a low salary to protect their expensive platinum, was possibly kidnapped and killed. They're terrified that the family is going to figure out their negligence and sue them. If they can turn Dale into a suspect or a co-conspirator, the heat is off them and attention is diverted to the missing employee who literally left everything behind.

I completely agree with everything you just said. From the beginning, I thought that one of two scenarios happened.

One, due to the layoffs and cut backs, I suspect that perhaps a former employee who had been let go was the masked gunman and that maybe Dale ended up recognizing him or his voice and was killed because of it.

Two, do to the employer's seemingly condescending comments toward Dale Kerstetter, I wonder if maybe this was an inside job by the company to have their platinum "stolen" and then falsify an insurance claim. This could have been done by former or current employees and then they try to lay the blame on Dale Kerstetter by saying he was never a good employee anyway.

The fact that there were only a handful of cameras on a huge lot is very odd. I worked a part time job in high school and we had a rather large store but the only surveillance camera was right over the cash register. Our employer did not seem to care about putting cameras on the product or trying to get someone on tape in case a crime was committed. They only cared about trying to catch and employee stealing. Granted, yes, that is a concern but a co worker was robbed one day and since the camera only showed the register, the police were not able to get a look at the thief. Also, when our employer found out about the robbery, all she asked was if money had been taken and if there were any damages. Not a single question asked to the co-worker about her well being. Oh well, I'm off my soapbox now, lol.

[TheCars1986]

According to the UM segment there was only ONE shot of Kerstetter with the intruder...and Kerstetter's daughter had said (through posts on here) that the tapes that were recreated were pretty accurate to the real tapes, so why on Earth would the Corning employees be so adamant about him being involved? You clearly see what appears to be the intruder holding him at gunpoint as they walk by...and I don't think his look at the camera was a way of signaling for help because he was the only one at the plant until at least seven o'clock...I just think he glanced up and knew the cameras were recording everything thereby thinking this would help catch the intruder later. I think the plant supervisors were right when they said Dale was bitter about taking a paycut which is probably why when he found the intruder he didn't put up a Herculean effort to subdue or run him off...he figured hey they screwed me out of a job and money who cares if this guy runs off with their platinum?

Which means two things could have happened. The insurance scam sounds plausible because the brass at the Corning factory made it seem like Dale was a subpar employee on UM and seemed to be shifting blame on him where there was absolutely NO evidence what-so-ever to support that other than one frame of Dale and the intruder together...if Dale were involved and wanted to flaunt his crime why wasn't he shown on the tape stealing the platinum? Perhaps they didn't know Dale would find the intruder so they had to "off" him to avoid being exposed in the scam? The other scenario would be a disgruntled ex-employee who Dale recognized...which seems to me to be the more likely to have occured. Either way I honestly think Dale was 100% innocent and was a victim of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[cocytus]

My theories:

1) He wasn't in on the robbery and he was killed (or maybe just subdued and was unable to free himself before he died) by the perpetrator.
2) The reason that Corning officials were denigrating him as an employee was because it was a smokescreen to cover for the serious lapses in judgment and security that seemed to permeate that facility.
Also,implying that Dale was to blame would make it easier for Corning to set up a defense in the event of any wrongful death suit that his family might have brought against them at a later date.
3) The police seem to have dropped the ball on this one.The platinum would have to have been fenced shortly after the robbery and,unless the thief was local, he would have had to have stayed somewhere in the area and would have likely left shortly thereafter.
Following those two leads would have probably provided the best clues towards who did the robbery.
4) They should have also looked at anybody locally that was flashing money or spending more than they earned. That may have been a good tip as the identity of the robber.
5) His son didn't do his father nor this case any benefit by IMPLYING that his father could have been in on the heist. IN fact, he should have come back onto the program at a later date and changed his statement in an attempt to remove any suspicion.

And a thought

Has his family had him declared deceased? It has been well over 7 years w/o any clues to his whereabouts. If they have...then he's probably dead.
If they have NOT,then they may know more about this than they are admitting.

[TracyLynnS]

Has his family had him declared deceased? It has been well over 7 years w/o any clues to his whereabouts. If they have...then he's probably dead. If they have NOT,then they may know more about this than they are admitting.

Dale's daughter and former son in law posted earlier in this thread. In post #20, his daughter "moneypenny" said the following (in blue). It's a bit confusing to me, but the way I understood it was that she did have Dale declared dead and that it was an unusually difficult task, since he was never cleared as a suspect in the platinum theft.

About 15 years ago, I hired a retired FBI regional director-turned lawyer to assist me in the endeavor of declaring him legally dead; while the statute of limitations had passed, as you can imagine, in this bizarre situation, it is nearly impossible. For the record, none of the family has ever collected on any of his financial assets.

[TheCars1986]

It also seems likely that Corning would attempt to lessen Dale's character on air to try and sway public opinion in the town of Bradford in favor of them. If what his daughter said was true about the security guards were supposed to check in every hour then they absolutley dropped the ball and should have been sued for not responding over a 5-6 hour period of silence from your only security guard in the building! And wouldn't they have watched the tapes immediately after they suspected him missing? And if Corning thought so lowly of Kerstetter's character why did they initially think he had a heart attack or he had fallen? Shouldn't they have suspected something instantly after he went missing if they really thought he was so crafty and capable of larceny?

[JackKerouac1989]

I have rewatched this segment and while viewing the re-enactment of the security camera video it was obvious to me that Kerstetter was not a willing participant in this robbery and was most likely a victim.
Why?
Maybe I'm crazy, but did anyone else find it unsual that the masked man's right hand remains behind Kerstetter's back during the whole time!! :eek:
Even when they are walking side by side his right hand is still hidden behind Kerstetter's back.
This robbery obviously knew where the camera was and he obviously did not want his right hand visible (since he most likely had a gun in it).
I think this fact alone leans heavily in Kerstetter having been a victim.

[TheCars1986]

The robber had to have been someone local or hired by someone local...how many robberies happen in a glassworks factory involving stolen platinum? No thief is lucky enough to stumble upon platinum...plus the tapes show that this guy knew exactly where it was located in the plant. The cops should have been able to check to see if there were any sales or distribution of an unusual amount of platinum (1/4 of a million dollars worth) within at LEAST a 150 mile radius. Law enforcement also should have been able to pinpoint someone local who held a grudge against Corning and/or Kerstetter who would have a motive to do this or hire someone to do it for them. There's absolutely no way this crime was committed by someone other than a resident of Bradford be it the robber or someone who hired the robber. The sad this is there is someone (or several people) right now who knows something and know the whereabouts of Kerstetter.

[peachysquirt21]

I still think the shady person Dale knew who just up & left town after Dale disappeared was in on this.

[Hambone2421]

The other scenario would be a disgruntled ex-employee who Dale recognized...which seems to me to be the more likely to have occured. Either way I honestly think Dale was 100% innocent and was a victim of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I agree with this assessment. I have watched this segment over and over again and my ultimate conclusion is that a burglar came and held Dale at gunpoint. At some point during the heist, Dale recognized the burglar. Maybe he said something and recognized his voice or maybe the burglar had some type of mannerism that Dale recognized. Either way, I believe he recognized an ex-coworker who was recently laid off or maybe a current co-worker who also had to take a pay cut and was upset about it. After realizing this, the intruder probably killed Dale.

[Guardian]

Here's a thought, suppose for just a minute that the masked man was an employee or exemployee. Now if he came into the plant, stole the platinum, and then tried to sell it right away, it is quite possible the police would track the sale right after. But suppose they hid and sat on it for several years. They sell it 5 years later on the black market and are rich. In the meantime, they just go about their everyday lives to keep suspicion off of themselves.

Everyone always assumes they would sell the platinum immediately. No reason I know of that they couldn't have sat on it for a while.

[TracyLynnS]

Yeah, I wish corning would tell the truth about exactly how much $$$ in platinum they lost. Best I can remember, there's some suspicion that they tried to minimize the value to either deter future thefts or to save face because they got ripped off for a TON of money.

Either way, they lost a lot of valuable material and it had to be worth a whole lot because that thief worked pretty hard to saw those pipes apart and remove the platinum. He went to so much trouble to get his hands on that (and possibly killed Dale in the process) that I was thinking there was already a buyer lined up.

But maybe not. If that sorta shady rich friend of Dale's was behind it, I could see him sitting on the stash of platinum and waiting for a good buyer/price, or selling it off in pieces to different people as the opportunity presented itself.

Anyhow, I just read back through the last couple pages here and I'm thinking about the part of the security footage where the corning people say that Dale is flaunting his heist to them, sort of saying "neener neener, I'm stealing all your goodies and you can't do anything about it".

But it struck me that if an employee was going to use his few seconds of camera time to gloat and really stick it to his employer, wouldn't he maybe flip off the camera or make an obscene gesture or something to really get his point across? (I know I would! :D ) Yet Dale's big "screw you" moment is only an ambiguous facial expression that could mean "help", or "I hope you guys are gonna watch this footage and catch this guy", or "oh crap, I forgot the camera was there and now they're gonna know I did it."

[MegtheEgg86]

But it struck me that if an employee was going to use his few seconds of camera time to gloat and really stick it to his employer, wouldn't he maybe flip off the camera or make an obscene gesture or something to really get his point across? (I know I would! :D ) Yet Dale's big "screw you" moment is only an ambiguous facial expression that could mean "help", or "I hope you guys are gonna watch this footage and catch this guy", or "oh crap, I forgot the camera was there and now they're gonna know I did it."

That's always how I've felt about the "footage question." His looking at the camera always seemed to me a subtle cry for help than anything else, as though he didn't want to make it obvious to the man with him. All he could give was a long, direct look.

[Ripperjt]

Hi People :wave:

Questions:
* Did Dale know that a new employee was remotely monitoring from Corning HQ?
* Also did Dale know that the employee was unaware of procedure?

I don't believe that this was a coincidence, and whoever knew this information, probably planned the robbery. It gave the robber several hours of getaway time after the crime.

* If Dale was part of it, then why didn't he simply take the security tapes?

He could have just done that and avoided having the 2nd person wear a mask.

* Was this crime an inside job?
* If so, why won't Dale do this when someone else was on guard?

It seems most likely that it was an inside job, the masked man had to have been a current or previous employee. Why wait 27 years and steal from the company only several months away from retirement?

* How do you move and sell all that platinum?

I'd say that the plant was in greater financial trouble than Dale was...
Your casual thief is not going to try and steal platinum from a plant for easy money. You would have to know where it is, how to get it, and the hardest of all, how to sell it off and make big money out of it, since it is regulated by the government, and people are going to question how you came into this platinum fortune.

Personally I feel this was an inside job, and more than just by a former employee. A possible scenario is that the plant "stole" there own platinum... basically fraud, this case could be made stronger or weaker by answering my first couple of questions.

I just think that the timing of the new employee and the robbery are just too great to ignore.

I feel the reason Dale hasn't been found and why he was most likely killed is to give the impression that he is enjoying this money somewhere in the tropics. I think he was killed very shortly after the robbery, and I also think his body was disposed of, in such a way that he would never be found....

So can anybody answer the first 2 questions????

[Hambone2421]

Hi People :wave:

Questions:
* Did Dale know that a new employee was remotely monitoring from Corning HQ?
* Also did Dale know that the employee was unaware of procedure?

I don't believe that this was a coincidence, and whoever knew this information, probably planned the robbery. It gave the robber several hours of getaway time after the crime.

I don't believe the new guard was in on it. I just don't think he was properly trained and told about the routine check ins.

[Ripperjt]

Thanks for the reply,

I don't think the new guy was in on it either, I'm wondering who all knew (remotely at the HQ and locally at the plant) that this new guy was green and was not up to speed with the procedures. The timing of the new employee's hire and the robbery are nothing short of uncanny.

To me either someone locally knew that a new person was monitoring from the HQ that didn't know the procedures, or the new employee was "hired" to make the robbery go smoothly by placing a know-not at a critical place.

I find it strange that if Dale really wanted to rob the place, he didn't need to disappear, he could have tampered or replaced the security tapes with a previous night's recording or removed the tapes all together from the site.

For that matter, Dale could have stolen every night for a week, and replaced the security tapes and no one would have known right away, and by the time the company figured it out. No one could know that it happened when Dale himself was specifically on shift.

Dale could have continued working there until retirement and still had the platinum stored away elsewhere.

This theft seems well planned out and Dale could have done all these things without disappearing and without raising suspicion toward himself.

Think about it, if Dale premeditated the robbery and planned it out, then why make a lunch? Why expose his identity to a recording camera if he was in charge of security?

And if Dale wanted to screw over his employer, why not leave a note, or give the camera a big middle finger. To me, his role in the crime doesn't make any sense :crazy: , since it was well planned outside of Dale's perspective.

Without the new employee's screw up, the longest the cops might have took to be notified and show up is between 65 minutes to 90 minutes max. Does anyone know how long the people were being view on the tape from the first visual sighting to the last?

[Guardian]

Very good questions.

I know that in the past, Dale's daughter has posted on here. Perhaps she could shed some light on these questions?

I don't know why but I tend to think that the remote guard, was just not trained properly. I do wonder however, just how long had that new guard been there. If he worked there more than a night or two it would seem he might know about the check in procedure assuming that Dale kept with procedure. To me Dale sounds like he would have been a by Tue book with procedures kind of person. maybe I am wrong but thats the impression I get. one would think that one night of following procedure and checking in would be an indicator of how things operate to the new guard. unless he was just an idiot.

I have always felt in my gut that Dale is innocent. I feel it was an inside job and he was caught in a bad situation. Who knows? Maybe who ever planned the job intended to be in and out without being discovered by Dale. Dale might then have heard or saw something and went to check it out as the segment suggests.

[Ripperjt]

Thanks Guardian,

I remember Dale's family saying how honest he was and that he had no use for lying.... these traits probably got him in trouble if the discovered the intruder as you suggest.

I find it strange how the company was so quick to vilify Dale without really giving any indication why they felt that way, yeah he looked like he moved slow but give the guy a break; he worked for them for over 25 years - what did they expect? They seem to have no qualms for throwing him under the bus so to speak.

It's very possible that Dale died while protecting the company, and instead of seeing the best in Dale - they practically accused him of theft and jeering at them in the camera...seems like the company was all class!!!

And when describing the video, it's like 'yeah we were kind of worried that an employee was missing, but then we discovered that we might have platinum missing"...:confused:

[Guardian]

Exactly. Notice how it was only after they wasted a ton of time searching the plant that it suddenly comes to someone's mind to do something crazy like, you know, check the security tapes? I think if I had been in charge I would have put together a search while having someone look through the tapes. If they were really concerned about his wellbeing, you would think they would do all things possible to find out quickly, what might have happened.

One thing that I admit has always troubled me, why the empty holster and keys found in his truck. I would think that going on duty at the plant that Dale would bring his weapon in still holstered. Night shift security isn't exactly the line of work that you just stick a gun in your wasteband and go to work. And don't most people take their keys inside with them when they go to work?

But if Dale didn't do these things, then who did? I can't think of a single reason that the intruder may have. The only thing that makes sense to me would be that after Dale is escorted off camera by the masked man and to what I presume (based on the narrative later in the segment) to be an exit door, Dale made a run for his truck to possibly retrieve his pistol which may have been left in the truck. The masked man pursued and apprehended Dale from there. But then if you have a gun why leave it in your car when guarding the place? So that doesn't make sense either. Unless maybe he just forgot it that night. I don't know, I am just speculating...

So many odd clues to this case. This one has bothered me for years.

[TheCars1986]

One thing that I admit has always troubled me, why the empty holster and keys found in his truck. I would think that going on duty at the plant that Dale would bring his weapon in still holstered. Night shift security isn't exactly the line of work that you just stick a gun in your wasteband and go to work. And don't most people take their keys inside with them when they go to work?



Unless the intruder saw Dale's gun left in his truck and then broke in somehow and stole it to make it easier to coerce Dale. Or maybe the intruder had no intention of killing Dale, and then got desperate when he did in fact kill him. Maybe he decided to hide the body, and then took his keys and tossed them in the truck to try and cast a ray of suspicion on Dale in a half-assed attempt at a coverup? Who knows?

[TracyLynnS]

I was thinking that gun was Dale's personal weapon, and not required for his job. Not sure if I read that or if I'm misremembering something.

He may not have had a procedure regarding the gun. (Personally, I don't think he felt that he was in mortal danger in the security guard post.)

Possibly the holster was left in his truck because he didn't like to wear a cumbersome holster when he could just carry the gun into the building in his lunch pail, then put the gun in a desk drawer or have it within reach somehow if the odd chance ever came around that he'd need it.

Also guessing, but I'd say he left his keys in his truck because because it was his usual habit. There was probably never much excitement going on in the parking lot when Dale was there alone in the evenings and he may have felt safe leaving the keys in the truck. People used to do that all the time before car thefts became such a big problem.

I got the feeling that the security footage was not being viewed by anyone in real time. I wonder what the situation was with that. In the movies, they always show security guys sitting at a desk with a bank of monitors feeding live footage to each screen, but I didn't think that was the case with corning.

Dale's building had 3 cameras. Anyone know where the security tapes were located? If they were in the same building as the platinum, you would think that the thief would take the tapes, but also, that building was over 100,000 square feet, and the even though it was probably an inside job, the thief may not have known where, in that huge building, the tapes were kept.

I wonder where the offsite new security guard was located, since it appears that he was not in the same building as Dale. Was he in a different building on the same campus or at a completely different location? I'd like to know how long he'd been employed there, who hired him and failed to train him, and why he didn't know that part of his job was to speak via phone with Dale each hour.

Regarding Ripper's question about stealing a bit of platinum a bit at a time, rather than trying to make off with it all in one big heist... IIRC, the platinum was a necessarry part of the equipment, somehow used in the piping near the glass furnace. If a portion of it had gone missing one day, the equipment wouldn't function, workers would quickly find out the cause, and there would be no opportunity to steal a bit more platinum the next day. The thief had to take all he could at once because that would be his only opportunity.

[Guardian]

Does anyone know if this case was ever profiled anywhere besides UM? I am thinking that Cold Case, or Forensic Files would be great to profile this case. Any updated info would be nice though. Obviously there is still plenty of interest in it.

Also, just curious, does anyone on here live in the area of the plant?

[dks64]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I skimmed some of the posts and while I'm on the fence, I am leaning towards an abduction.

[TheCars1986]

If Dale were so intent on flaunting his crime, why wouldn't he show himself on the security camera stealing the platinum?

[cocytus]

Dale's daughter and former son in law posted earlier in this thread. In post #20, his daughter "moneypenny" said the following (in blue). It's a bit confusing to me, but the way I understood it was that she did have Dale declared dead and that it was an unusually difficult task, since he was never cleared as a suspect in the platinum theft.

About 15 years ago, I hired a retired FBI regional director-turned lawyer to assist me in the endeavor of declaring him legally dead; while the statute of limitations had passed, as you can imagine, in this bizarre situation, it is nearly impossible. For the record, none of the family has ever collected on any of his financial assets.

Hmmm...

I hadn't read this before but I have to questions that statement's accuracy. For reasons that I won't go into , I'm somewhat familiar w/ people being declared deceased after being missing an extended period. While it's not "easy", unless there is compelling reason to believe that the missing person is "alive" (financial transactions, correspondence,credible sightings,etc) there shouldn't be any issue w/ having a loved declared deceased.

And given that no satisfactory answer came from company's investigation of the crime coupled w/ UM segment, it should have been relatively easy for a competent lawyer to have this person declared deceased.

[Guardian]

Hmmm...

I hadn't read this before but I have to questions that statement's accuracy. For reasons that I won't go into , I'm somewhat familiar w/ people being declared deceased after being missing an extended period. While it's not "easy", unless there is compelling reason to believe that the missing person is "alive" (financial transactions, correspondence,credible sightings,etc) there shouldn't be any issue w/ having a loved declared deceased.

And given that no satisfactory answer came from company's investigation of the crime coupled w/ UM segment, it should have been relatively easy for a competent lawyer to have this person declared deceased.

Unless of course the state laws in this case prevent them from easily declaring him dead since he is suspected in a major financial crime. Although you would think that since the limit is up on prosecuting him that either way it could be done since he has not returned.

As far as what has been going back and forth about where the security tapes were kept and where/who was viewing them, if you look closely at the segment, Dale's own desk/station seemed to be where the monitor feeds for the cameras were at. This means that he would be the one viewing these cameras while on duty. As far as the tapes being kept there... that is anyones guess. They could have been right there, or in a remote location. Its difficult to say. But if Dale was in on it, and the tapes were right there, why not take them? It certainly wouldnt cast any more doubt on him one way or another as far as possibly being guilty I don't think.

[cocytus]

Unless of course the state laws in this case prevent them from easily declaring him dead since he is suspected in a major financial crime. Although you would think that since the limit is up on prosecuting him that either way it could be done since he has not returned.

As far as what has been going back and forth about where the security tapes were kept and where/who was viewing them, if you look closely at the segment, Dale's own desk/station seemed to be where the monitor feeds for the cameras were at. This means that he would be the one viewing these cameras while on duty. As far as the tapes being kept there... that is anyones guess. They could have been right there, or in a remote location. Its difficult to say. But if Dale was in on it, and the tapes were right there, why not take them? It certainly wouldnt cast any more doubt on him one way or another as far as possibly being guilty I don't think.

As far as I have been able to determine, no charges were filed against Dale Kerstetter in this matter. If nothing else, filing criminal charges would have meant a more intensive investigation than seems to have occurred.

The video never made much sense to me. Even if the recorders weren't next to the monitors, they'd have breakers which the security people would know about and likely have access to. He could have just turned off the the breakers and never bothered w/ the tapes.

I'm also surprised that the family didn't file suit against Corning in this case. Unless Corning could prove that this was an "inside job" it would appear that they didn't provide a safe workplace for their employees. They are also defaming him by implying that he committed a criminal act w/ no proof that was the case.

[Smokescreen]

Originally posted by cocytus The video never made much sense to me. Even if the recorders weren't next to the monitors, they'd have breakers which the security people would know about and likely have access to. He could have just turned off the the breakers and never bothered w/ the tapes.


I agree!

Also some a couple of clues make this point to Dale being the victim of robbery (and homicide), imho.

-He abandoned a whole carton of cigarettes (Being a smoker, myself, I'd wanna bring at least a few packs if I was gonna pull a heist like that - I need them to calm my nerves! lol)

-The years prior, during that propane/ molten glass incident in the factory - why would a supposedly disgruntled employee bother risking his life and jump abroad the forklift and move it outta the way of the molten glass? I mean, the company was insured after all


The only other scenario I can think of is that "if" Dale was in on this (although I highly doubt it), he helped his accomplices with getting the platinum and they ended up turning on him, killing him and then hid his body.

[Hambone2421]

A few things:

They stated during the broadcast that his shift started at 11pm and that the guard had to check in every hour, on the hour. Dale missed his 12am check in and every one after that. If Dale was in on this, it seems like he would have possibly planned it for later in the evening for fear of the guard alerting the police and then the police looking for Dale within hours of the crime being committed. Also, the fact that Dale's ex son in law brings up this friend of Dale's that obviously had money and got it from crooked ways, could inadvertently bring up a motive for Dale. Maybe Dale, seeing his debt climb, could not wait for his penchant any longer, and decided to have his friend come in with him and steal the platinum. Since his friend had probably done shady things like this before, he probably had or knew of a way to channel platinum through for money and decided to do it that way. Then once the accomplice realizes how much its worth, he kills Dale so that he doesn't have to split the worth.

Also, its possible that Dale is still alive, living off the money. His ex son in law had said on here that Dale had mentioned to him once of taking off and leaving everything behind.

Some would ask, well then why did he leave his truck, keys and lunch and why did he even pack a lunch if he was going to disappear? Well, for the exact reasons you are asking the questions. To make it look like he disappeared and to make it look less suspicious. I just wonder if Dale was a smart enough man to do all of this and allude captivity for all these years and stay away from his wife, kids and grandchildren without so much as a word to any of them.

[cocytus]

The amount of money mentioned ($250k) was the value of the platinum to the company and it's replacement cost. It's doubtful that the thieves received that amount for stolen goods.

So, to believe that Dale Kerstetter committed this crime, you would have to believe that he would have left his job for what he would have made anyway in about 3 years (or less depending upon what his salary was and what his "cut" would be) and live the rest of his life on that amount.

Where would he do this? Bangladesh? Southern Mexico? Central Africa? because those are about the only places that I can think of where $50-90,000 USD would last you the rest of your life. The segment makes it clear that Mr. Kerstetter was having financial problems and after this (if he was responsible for the theft) he would be on the run until statute of limitations on the robbery would end. He still would have a tax liability for the VALUE of the theft, not just his "cut." And he could still be sued in civil court by his employer for his part in the robbery.

I just don't see this robbery as being lucrative enough to make it worth losing his current life and future for Kerstetter. He would have made that much in several years w/o the hassles and he wouldn't have to look over his shoulder to do that.

I still believe that Kerstetter was a victim rather than an accomplice.

[TheCars1986]

The amount of money mentioned ($250k) was the value of the platinum to the company and it's replacement cost. It's doubtful that the thieves received that amount for stolen goods.

So, to believe that Dale Kerstetter committed this crime, you would have to believe that he would have left his job for what he would have made anyway in about 3 years (or less depending upon what his salary was and what his "cut" would be) and live the rest of his life on that amount.

Where would he do this? Bangladesh? Southern Mexico? Central Africa? because those are about the only places that I can think of where $50-90,000 USD would last you the rest of your life. The segment makes it clear that Mr. Kerstetter was having financial problems and after this (if he was responsible for the theft) he would be on the run until statute of limitations on the robbery would end. He still would have a tax liability for the VALUE of the theft, not just his "cut." And he could still be sued in civil court by his employer for his part in the robbery.

I just don't see this robbery as being lucrative enough to make it worth losing his current life and future for Kerstetter. He would have made that much in several years w/o the hassles and he wouldn't have to look over his shoulder to do that.

I still believe that Kerstetter was a victim rather than an accomplice.

I could see how he could have been bitter about his hours being cut, and with the plant managers in general. But I agree, Dale would have lost so much more in the long run compared to his portion of the theft he would have received. The UM segment also brought up some debt Kerstetter was in, but there was obviously no payoffs to close out his debt, so just what did he use this money for if he was involved? And if it were just Dale and this masked intruder involved, he would have got at the very most $125,000. Hardly enough to money to live on the run to this day.

[sdb4884]

I get from the segment that Dale's superiors didn't like him too much.

[TheCars1986]

I get from the segment that Dale's superiors didn't like him too much.

They described him as "marginal", but then said he jumped on a forklift that caught on fire and drove it out of harms way, which saved other peoples lives and prevented extensive property damage (which also saved Corning money). I don't know if they didn't like him, but I think at the time the segment was filmed (which was still only a few years after the robbery) the Corning supervisors still held firm to the belief that Dale was involved somehow. Hell, even Dale's son alluded to that in his interview.

[Hambone2421]

They described him as "marginal", but then said he jumped on a forklift that caught on fire and drove it out of harms way, which saved other peoples lives and prevented extensive property damage (which also saved Corning money). I don't know if they didn't like him, but I think at the time the segment was filmed (which was still only a few years after the robbery) the Corning supervisors still held firm to the belief that Dale was involved somehow. Hell, even Dale's son alluded to that in his interview.

Dale's daughter posted on here that she and her friends would often stop by the plant on days her dad was working just to say hi. She said they would walk right in and say his name until he found them. That eliminates the possibility of needing a security pass to enter the plant. So, apparently, you can just walk in and out as you please and thus, the masked man could do the same. Also, I'm interested to know why the original security tapes were not shown on UM? UM has broadcast security surveillance of numerous things in the past, some of which have shown attacks and abductions, so why not show the actual footage to see if anyone out there recognized the masked man?

The segment said that Dale had recently been forced to take a pay cut which he wasn't happy about. Maybe during those round of pay cuts, there were also lay offs. Maybe this masked man was a former employee who had been laid off and was pissed off about it. This former employee presumably had worked there for long enough to know where everything was at, when the security guards did their rounds, ate lunch, carried a gun, etc..

Dale may have been stalked by the masked man that night and as soon as Dale sat down in the lunch room and put his gun down, the masked man made his move, knowing that he could get the gun from Dale. He may have came from behind and grabbed the gun. In all likelihood, the masked man was waiting for Dale to let his guard down so he could get the gun. Dale's daughter has said that she believes her dad would shoot to kill if he believed his life was in danger. In my mind, that would eliminate the possibility of the masked man attacking Dale and taking the gun. Also, some say that Dale's looking into the camera was either a look for help or a way of showing his bosses who was taking their platinum. When he looks into the camera, the gunman is looking to his right, I wonder why Dale didnt mouth "Help Me!" to the camera without saying it if he was indeed an innocent by standard?

I remember Stack saying that the masked man wasn't there very long and took most of the platinum almost immediately, alluding to him knowing where everything was which furthers the explanation of a former employee. One question I have is why during the security footage did it only show the masked man taking the platinum? Why wasn't Dale helping him if he was in on it and adversely, why wasn't Dale running off to get help when the masked man jumped on top of the gate to get into the platinum container. It seems like if Dale was really looking into the camera to stick it to his employers, then why wouldn't he help his accomplice get the platinum?

They stated during the broadcast that his shift started at 11pm and that the guard had to check in every hour, on the hour. Dale missed his 12am check in and every one after that. If Dale was in on this, it seems like he would have possibly planned it for later in the evening for fear of the guard alerting the police and then the police looking for Dale within hours of the crime being committed. Also, the fact that Dale's ex son in law brings up this friend of Dale's that obviously had money and got it from crooked ways, could inadvertently bring up a motive for Dale. Maybe Dale, seeing his debt climb, could not wait for his penchant any longer, and decided to have his friend come in with him and steal the platinum. Since his friend had probably done shady things like this before, he probably had or knew of a way to channel platinum through for money and decided to do it that way. Then once the accomplice realizes how much its worth, he kills Dale so that he doesn't have to split the worth.

Also, its possible that Dale is still alive, living off the money. His ex son in law had said on here that Dale had mentioned to him once of taking off and leaving everything behind.

Some would ask, well then why did he leave his truck, keys and lunch and why did he even pack a lunch if he was going to disappear? Well, for the exact reasons you are asking the questions. To make it look like he disappeared and to make it look less suspicious. I just wonder if Dale was a smart enough man to do all of this and allude captivity for all these years and stay away from his wife, kids and grandchildren without so much as a word to any of them.

Some questions that remain for me are:

1. Was Dale's body in the bag that we see being wheeled out?
2. If so, was he killed on the property and then dumped into the bag?
3. If not, why is it that the only footage shown of Dale is that of him looking at the camera?
4. If he was killed on the property, then I would wonder if the entire property was searched to see if there was a specific spot that showed possible signs of a struggle somewhere.
5. How did the masked man leave the premises without getting stopped by a guard or without anyone seeing him on the way out? Surely it wasn't just Dale and another guard on the property.

i really cant form an opinion one way or the other on this case but it seems like a man, who by all accounts was a family man, would have a hard time staying away from his family for all these years.

[TheCars1986]

Good analysis! Here's my opinion on the questions you asked.

Some questions that remain for me are:

1. Was Dale's body in the bag that we see being wheeled out?
2. If so, was he killed on the property and then dumped into the bag?
3. If not, why is it that the only footage shown of Dale is that of him looking at the camera?
4. If he was killed on the property, then I would wonder if the entire property was searched to see if there was a specific spot that showed possible signs of a struggle somewhere.
5. How did the masked man leave the premises without getting stopped by a guard or without anyone seeing him on the way out? Surely it wasn't just Dale and another guard on the property.

i really cant form an opinion one way or the other on this case but it seems like a man, who by all accounts was a family man, would have a hard time staying away from his family for all these years.

1. I personally think this was Dale's body being moved out of the plant. Since there was only one masked intruder captured on film, it's safe to assume there was only one perp involved. So it would be fairly hard for one single person to dispose of a body (especially in a plant the size of Corning's). I'll discuss this one more below.
2. I think the intruder surprised Dale, held a gun to him, and demanded him take him to the platinum. Dale was probably told that if he cooperated, he wouldn't get hurt. Maybe Dale did in fact recognize his voice as a former employee and thought his life wasn't in danger.
3. I think this may have been the last moments of Dale Kerstetter's life, unfortunately. As stated above, I think the intruder told Dale if he cooperated, no harm would come to him, so this "scene" of Dale and the intruder walking together is simply Dale walking the guy to where the platinum was stored. The dogs followed his scent to where the platinum was stored, and this was actually how they discovered a robbery took place.
4. Shortly after Dale had taken the intruder to the platinum, I think he was killed. Obviously a gunshot would leave some sort of evidence behind, but if this intruder had the whole plant to himself (which he would have if he killed Dale), he certainly had plenty of time to clean up after himself. Plus, he would have had to have taken the time to steal the platinum (which in itself seemed like a long drawn out process), and then transport it to his vehicle. He probably retrieved a shell casing, and then cleaned up any mess he would have made. I wonder how long it was after the cameras showed Dale and the intruder together to when it showed the intruder pushing what may have been Dale's body.
5. I think Dale was the only person on duty at the plant, so it would have been fairly easy for someone to slip out and get away undetected. You would think red flares would have went up after Dale didn't do his hourly security check in, and I'm amazed that the Corning supervisors actually stated on camera that they thought it was just, "Dale being Dale".

There's no way Kerstetter was involved in this, IMO. He was never shown on camera near the tank (where they stored the platinum), so what exactly was he doing the whole time this masked guy was stealing it? Don't accomplices usually help commit the crime? And I highly doubt Dale would have stayed away from his family this long, severing all contact with them completely. Dale did have debt, but there was no evidence of any of his debts being paid off. And the take on this robbery was a 1/4 of a million, so that would leave Dale with at most $125,000. Hardly enough to live on for the past 24 years.

[sdb4884]

Terrific analysis guys, you certainly make good points for both sides.

[Hambone2421]

There's no way Kerstetter was involved in this, IMO. He was never shown on camera near the tank (where they stored the platinum), so what exactly was he doing the whole time this masked guy was stealing it? Don't accomplices usually help commit the crime? And I highly doubt Dale would have stayed away from his family this long, severing all contact with them completely. Dale did have debt, but there was no evidence of any of his debts being paid off. And the take on this robbery was a 1/4 of a million, so that would leave Dale with at most $125,000. Hardly enough to live on for the past 24 years.

I agree. I remember in earlier posts Mastermind and I debated this but I always came back to the point that if Dale was in on it, why wasn't he actually helping the armed robber get the platinum out. All we see is Dale showing him where the platinum is. if he was indeed in on it, he would have been helping to take the platinum.

I'm not so sure it was Dale's body in the bag. I cant remember but I think the intruder only walked through with the lift carrying the bag one time. If this was Dale's body, then how did he get the platinum out since this was the only time we see him wheeling something out? But at the same time, if it is the platinum, then where is Dale Kerstetter?

[TheCars1986]

I'm still at a loss as to how the Corning supervisor interviewed on UM (the one who watched the surveillance footage) would so easily come to the conclusion that Dale was involved, and as Stack put it, "cooly flaunting his crime". There is only one shot of Dale with this intruder, and on the reenactment shown on UM it looks like the intruder has his hand behind Dale's back, possibly holding a gun to him. Kerstetter briefly looks into the camera, only once. It's not like he flipped it off or smiled at it. The footage never showed Dale carrying anything out of the plant, nor did it show him near or around the tank that held the platinum. If he truely was involved and planned on fleeing the country, why would he even care if he was captured on film? And if you listen to the supervisor describe the footage details he says Dale "met this masked person in the back of the plant", but on the recreated footage on UM you don't see anything of that sort. And Dale's daughter posted on here awhile back saying the reenactment of the footage was very accurate to the real thing. If Dale did in fact appear to meet this person in the back of the plant then I would say yeah, he was involved. But based off of the footage shown on UM, there isn't anything even remotely close to that shown. You just see Dale and the intruder walking together.

[Hambone2421]

And if you listen to the supervisor describe the footage details he says Dale "met this masked person in the back of the plant", but on the recreated footage on UM you don't see anything of that sort.

This is a very interesting point that I never really paid much attention to. Obviously, the supervisor has seen the entire footage whereas we as UM viewers have only seen bits and pieces. If Dale did indeed separate from the intruder then meet him later on in the back, then it would definitely put a cloud of suspicion over Dale Kerstetter and I could definitely understand the supervisors comments about Dale being in on it. However, based purely on what we have seen, I do not beleive Dale was associated with this crime.

[TheCars1986]

One of the biggest pieces of (overlooked) evidence in favor of Dale being an innocent victim is the fact that he was never shown on camera in the tank area where the platinum was stored. Based off of what was shown in the re-enactment, the process to get the platinum seemed like it would take at least twenty minutes to a half an hour just to get it removed. So if Dale was a co-conspirator, just what exactly was he doing the whole time this was going on? What better way to flaunt his crime than to appear on camera in the tank helping the masked man? I think he was killed before the intruder went to the tank area, unfortunately.

[Hambone2421]

One of the biggest pieces of (overlooked) evidence in favor of Dale being an innocent victim is the fact that he was never shown on camera in the tank area where the platinum was stored. Based off of what was shown in the re-enactment, the process to get the platinum seemed like it would take at least twenty minutes to a half an hour just to get it removed. So if Dale was a co-conspirator, just what exactly was he doing the whole time this was going on? What better way to flaunt his crime than to appear on camera in the tank helping the masked man? I think he was killed before the intruder went to the tank area, unfortunately.

Agreed. One reason I've always thought that Dale was innocent is in the UM segment it only shows the intruder stealing the platinum, not both the intruder and Dale. If Dale was in on it, why would he just sit there with the intruder did it alone? Why not help him?

Also, the supervisors interviewed said "That was Dale saying I'm taking your platinum and there isn't a thing you can do about it". Wouldn't a better way to do that to be to actually walk in front of the camera with the platinum? That would be a better proverbial f%#$ you then just staring at the camera.

[WishfulDreamer]

Agreed. One reason I've always thought that Dale was innocent is in the UM segment it only shows the intruder stealing the platinum, not both the intruder and Dale. If Dale was in on it, why would he just sit there with the intruder did it alone? Why not help him?

Also, the supervisors interviewed said "That was Dale saying I'm taking your platinum and there isn't a thing you can do about it". Wouldn't a better way to do that to be to actually walk in front of the camera with the platinum? That would be a better proverbial f%#$ you then just staring at the camera.

Yes, I absolutely agree. That supervisor seemed really bitter. A simple stare isn't really flaunting the crime. You'd think there would be a hand gesture or something if he really wanted to do that. Not to mention, the statute of limitations is up and has been for years. I think there was definite foul play here.

[Necco]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up, but it was a glass factory. After he did his walk in front of the camera, was he headed towards someplace with a glass furnace or other very hot device? Is it possible Dale has never been found because he never left the plant? Maybe he was cremated in the building.

Being unaware of the mechanics of glass operations in the late 1980s, I'm not sure if something as large and relatively cool as a person could be detected being introduced into a furnace or annealing mechanism.


I'm bringing this forward, because I didn't see anyone address this question.

[TheCars1986]

I'm bringing this forward, because I didn't see anyone address this question.

Never thought about the possibility of Dale being "cremated" in one of the furnaces. That would explain why his remains were never found, and I wonder if the Corning factory had a furnace large enough to dispose of a body.

[Hambone2421]

Never thought about the possibility of Dale being "cremated" in one of the furnaces. That would explain why his remains were never found, and I wonder if the Corning factory had a furnace large enough to dispose of a body.

Agreed but with his disappearance being discovered within 12 hrs, I gotta think that if they checked the furnace, it had to have at least had a bone fragment still in there. But we do not know if they even had a furnace and if they checked it. Interesting theory.

[ididn'tdoit]

This case just screams inside job, I mean the way the company wanted to put the blame on Dale, calling him a marginal employee, the way they ignored the missed check-ins.

But mostly why didn't the company want UM to show the security tapes with the masked man, surely they wanted him to be caught? Or maybe that was just what they wanted - that is, they didn't want the masked man to be identified because they knew who he was.

As someone else put it they wanted to milk the company for what they could before the switch in ownership, I think they stole their own platinum, claimed the insurance and sold it back to the company or something like that and Dale was just their patsy.

[Hambone2421]

As someone else put it they wanted to milk the company for what they could before the switch in ownership, I think they stole their own platinum, claimed the insurance and sold it back to the company or something like that and Dale was just their patsy.

I agree. As I've said before, I believe that they had either a current or ex employee steal the platinum and did not expect Dale to get in the way. I've always thought it was odd how they did not want the original tapes replayed. It seems like they would want the original tapes played just for hope of someone recognizing something from the intruder. The way he walks, the way his hands swing when he walks, something.

[MegtheEgg86]

But mostly why didn't the company want UM to show the security tapes with the masked man, surely they wanted him to be caught?

This has always been something of a mystery for me, too. The Matt Flores parking lot video was reenacted as well. I wonder if there are things on those tapes the police feel should be kept from public release.

[Necco]

Agreed but with his disappearance being discovered within 12 hrs, I gotta think that if they checked the furnace, it had to have at least had a bone fragment still in there. But we do not know if they even had a furnace and if they checked it. Interesting theory.

I just did a little research, the melting point of glass depends on the composition. But most of the temperatures I found were above the average temperature of a crematorium.

[Hambone2421]

This has always been something of a mystery for me, too. The Matt Flores parking lot video was reenacted as well. I wonder if there are things on those tapes the police feel should be kept from public release.

Sometimes, LE does this in an effort to hide things from the public that only the killer would know in efforts of getting it out of them or having a "smoking gun" as proof when in an interrogation. However, with both this case and the Flores case being 15 years + old, I would hope that if they did keep some things from public release, that they would have released them by now just to see if it could be of some help.

[TheCars1986]

Sometimes, LE does this in an effort to hide things from the public that only the killer would know in efforts of getting it out of them or having a "smoking gun" as proof when in an interrogation. However, with both this case and the Flores case being 15 years + old, I would hope that if they did keep some things from public release, that they would have released them by now just to see if it could be of some help.

This is another disappearance case that should have gotten more exposure than UM. I mean there is absolutely NOTHING online about Kerstetter's disappearance. It's very very very frustruating. I wonder what the status on the case is today. After all these years I'm sure LE has to believe that Dale is deceased.

[Hambone2421]

This is another disappearance case that should have gotten more exposure than UM. I mean there is absolutely NOTHING online about Kerstetter's disappearance. It's very very very frustruating. I wonder what the status on the case is today. After all these years I'm sure LE has to believe that Dale is deceased.

I agree. I re-watched this segment again last year for the first time in years and I immediately looked online and could find nothing other than this forum about it. I have found some of Dale's relatives on facebook but I'm not gonna contact them. I don't feel like its my place to bring anything like this up to them.

[crystaldawn]

I agree. I re-watched this segment again last year for the first time in years and I immediately looked online and could find nothing other than this forum about it. I have found some of Dale's relatives on facebook but I'm not gonna contact them. I don't feel like its my place to bring anything like this up to them.

Not sure if you realize this but Dale's daughter Penny (who was interviewed in the segment) has posted on this thread and was very gracious in discussions with us and telling us what she knew about the case. If you're interested her username is "moneypenny10" and her posts start on page 2 of this thread. :)

[Hambone2421]

Not sure if you realize this but Dale's daughter Penny (who was interviewed in the segment) has posted on this thread and was very gracious in discussions with us and telling us what she knew about the case. If you're interested her username is "moneypenny10" and her posts start on page 2 of this thread. :)

Yea, I did see that. I may send her a PM.

[moneypenny10]

Feel free to send me a message to moneypenny10@aol.com, put "Dale" in the subject matter so I know it is not spam.

[baloony]

I find this one fascinating. I go with co-conspirator, who was then killed for no longer being necessary - why cut the pie too many ways.

Bingo.

[baloony]

That's always how I've felt about the "footage question." His looking at the camera always seemed to me a subtle cry for help than anything else, as though he didn't want to make it obvious to the man with him. All he could give was a long, direct look.

Yes, I have always thought there was something strange about that.

[zack007attack]

I doubt he was in on it.

1) If he was helping someone steal the platinum, he probably would have tried to cover his tracks by covering the security cameras.

2) If he wanted to use the platinum to erase the debts the police claimed he was carrying, why didn't he return home to show off his new handfuls of cash?

I think there was more than one intruder in the factory that night. Maybe Dale encountered one of them outside the room where he was caught on camera, who threatened Dale and told him to help out his partner with the platinum; so basically Dale was just going up to the guy and reluctantly asked him 'what do you want me to do'? That happens in bank robberies sometimes when the robbers direct bank employees to help them move their loot around. The perpetrator(s) in this case seemed like professionals so it might not have been an inside job at all but the thieves who did their homework knew about the platinum.

From the attitude of the plant manager in the segment, it sounded to me like he knew something he wasn't saying. I got the impression that maybe the management was in on it if it were an inside job, and they were trying to cover their tracks by pinning the theft on Dale.

[baloony]

Dale was probably murdered on the day of the robbery. I agree, zack007attack, something seemed off about that plant manager. He seems perfectly fine with letting Dale be the scapegoat. The more I think about it, the more I think that the plant manager was the insider who was in on it. Dale was just a pawn.

[TheCars1986]

The fact that Kerstetter has never resurfaced is enough evidence for me to conclude that he was murdered and is an innocent victim.

[Necco]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I think he ended up in a kiln.

[Hambone2421]

They stated during the broadcast that his shift started at 11pm and that the guard had to check in every hour, on the hour. Dale missed his 12am check in and every one after that. If Dale was in on this, it seems like he would have possibly planned it for later in the evening for fear of the guard alerting the police and then the police looking for Dale within hours of the crime being committed.

[The Third Man]

This segment is one of the reasons we all love Unsolved Mysteries, IMHO: there are two possible, plausible explanations for Kerstetter's appearance, and both of those explanations are given a thorough study in the segment. The length of this thread is testament to that.

Once I leaned towards Kerstetter being an accomplice. Now I'm not certain of that at all, thanks to two posters in this thread. Kerstetter's daughter moneypenny passed on a lot of info that brings the picture into more focus. But I think TracyLynnS really turned my opinion because she makes perfect sense. Well-run companies don't leave one employee--who has to bring his own personal firearm--to provide security in a 100K+ square-foot plant with hundreds of thousands of dollars in untraceable precious metals that "everyone knows about" as moneypenny alluded to...and then, to boot, not only left its front door open all night but couldn't even be bothered to realize something was wrong after their ONLY employee missed five straight hourly checks. Well-run companies don't denigrate employees who saved lives as "marginal" then when they disappear accuse them of robbing the company blind. Well-run companies don't put a security camera facing down an empty corridor...and fail to put a security camera near the only thing in the factory worth stealing.

I'm thinking that a disgruntled employee might be involved. Seems to me like Corning pissed off a lot of people in trying to exit stage left. And, really, without Corning's management blaming Kerstetter, we have no real evidence that he was involved. This seems to me to be CYA to the extreme: we can't prove that one of our guys was involved so we're going to blame the missing and possibly dead guy, then wash our hands of the whole thing....no need for an expensive internal inquiry. It's exactly the sort of thing a badly-run company does--assign blame to the blameless and hope whatever bad thing that happened doesn't happen again.

But let's not exclude the possibility that local thieves bent on a quick buck couldn't be involved. Bradford is not a wealthy town (I drive through it all the time), and if the platinum holding was known around town somebody might have been tempted by it. In fact, that actually makes just as much sense...someone unconnected with the plant would have needed Kerstetter to take them to the tank.

Sadly I don't think the fact that Kerstetter's body has never been found is proof that he was in on it or that he is still alive. We only see one masked man on the tape, but that doesn't mean there wasn't another one acting as a lookout or holding Kerstetter hostage in an off-camera area. Two armed guys would have been more than enough to subdue Kerstetter and force him into a vehicle. Then....well, Bradford is right up against the Alleghany National Forest. A forest the size of England. And if that weren't enough central PA is full of old abandoned coal mines and mine shafts. There are hundreds of places you could put a body where nobody would find it.

I cannot believe Kerstetter was killed in the factory. There would have had to have been some sign of a shooting there. Badly as Corning ran the place, they did sell the plant to a new owner and they should have found some evidence.

[TheCars1986]

Whoever did this had to have been a current or ex employee of Corning. Police said that after viewing the tapes, the way the person cut into the pipes to steal the platinum knew exactly what he was doing. So I don't think this was just some random robbery, I think whoever did this knew where the platinum was and knew exactly what to do in how to steal it the quickest and most efficient way possible.

[The Third Man]

Whoever did this had to have been a current or ex employee of Corning. Police said that after viewing the tapes, the way the person cut into the pipes to steal the platinum knew exactly what he was doing. So I don't think this was just some random robbery, I think whoever did this knew where the platinum was and knew exactly what to do in how to steal it the quickest and most efficient way possible.

I'm wondering though--would that exclude Kerstetter? He might have known where the platinum was, but that doesn't mean he would have known how to steal it.

[Hambone2421]

I'm wondering though--would that exclude Kerstetter? He might have known where the platinum was, but that doesn't mean he would have known how to steal it.

IMO, the fact that it happened so early in his shift kills any idea of Kerstetter being involved. He knew they would be checking in on him every hour on the hour and if he were involved, would likely have waited until later in his shift to avoid the risk of them not seeing him.

[TheCars1986]

IMO, the fact that it happened so early in his shift kills any idea of Kerstetter being involved. He knew they would be checking in on him every hour on the hour and if he were involved, would likely have waited until later in his shift to avoid the risk of them not seeing him.

Good point! I forgot that they called every hour to check in on Kerstetter.

[bugnpinky]

I cannot believe Kerstetter was killed in the factory. There would have had to have been some sign of a shooting there. Badly as Corning ran the place, they did sell the plant to a new owner and they should have found some evidence.
Or strangle him and put him in one of the tanks. You don't have to shed blood to kill someone.
I am highly suspicious of that plant manager...he was wayyyyy too willing, like someone else said, to let Dale take the whole fall while not even commenting on the actual thief.

[The Third Man]

Good point! I forgot that they called every hour to check in on Kerstetter.

And the night the platinum was stolen, he missed five straight checks...and Corning never bothered to inform authorities or send someone around. He wasn't identified as missing until his replacement showed at 5 am. I'm not saying that's suspicious behavior on Corning's part, but it doesn't speak well of them.

[The Third Man]

Or strangle him and put him in one of the tanks. You don't have to shed blood to kill someone.

There's a difference here between the tanks and the kiln. The tanks were, as I understand, filled mainly with hot water. Since Corning moved out a few months after Kerstetter disappeared, someone surely would have noticed a dead body in one of the tanks. (Yeah, Corning dismantled the tanks, but could you imagine them trying to cover up a dead body in one of them? "Hey boss, there's a corpse in this one." "Oh, yeah...look, I'll get Vinnie to deal with that, OK?") The kiln was a very-high-temperature furnace in which one could have theoretically cremated a body. But were the kilns even left on overnight? And if they were, could a random thief actually have the technical skill to toss in a body? I mean, it's not like opening an oven door--industrial kilns are extremely dangerous pieces of equipment.

I suppose it's possible that Kerstetter was strangled somewhere in the factory, but it seems odd that a person(s) with a firearm would risk someone grabbing a gun in a melee.

[boniface605]

I'm with some of the others. The more posts I've read here, I think that he was not in on it. If so, I'm sure that he would have contacted his family in some way. And as someone else (several people?) have said, the look at the camera struck me as a "help" sign. A lot has been covered here, and I am starting to think that he was wasn't involved. It would be nice to know what actually happened. There is still a part of me that wonders if he was in on it in some way.... I think that comes from not knowing what happened. I haven't reread many posts in this thread, so I'll apologize in advance if this question has been answered already. But has any of the platnum ever been recovered? (Or could it be? That might be the better question....)

[Necco]

There's a difference here between the tanks and the kiln. The tanks were, as I understand, filled mainly with hot water. Since Corning moved out a few months after Kerstetter disappeared, someone surely would have noticed a dead body in one of the tanks. (Yeah, Corning dismantled the tanks, but could you imagine them trying to cover up a dead body in one of them? "Hey boss, there's a corpse in this one." "Oh, yeah...look, I'll get Vinnie to deal with that, OK?") The kiln was a very-high-temperature furnace in which one could have theoretically cremated a body. But were the kilns even left on overnight? And if they were, could a random thief actually have the technical skill to toss in a body? I mean, it's not like opening an oven door--industrial kilns are extremely dangerous pieces of equipment.

I suppose it's possible that Kerstetter was strangled somewhere in the factory, but it seems odd that a person(s) with a firearm would risk someone grabbing a gun in a melee.

Depending on the kiln set up and what was being manufactured there, the kiln could look like anything from an over to a open glory hole. And yes, there would be kilns on all the time, kilns often need to run for days cooling down at precise rates. Also, if the factory was 2 shifts, there would be no point in shutting down the kilns as it takes so long to heat them and the glass back up.

I imagine that at any given time in a Corning factory there would be various kilns in different stages of glass making.

[TheCars1986]

Depending on the kiln set up and what was being manufactured there, the kiln could look like anything from an over to a open glory hole. And yes, there would be kilns on all the time, kilns often need to run for days cooling down at precise rates. Also, if the factory was 2 shifts, there would be no point in shutting down the kilns as it takes so long to heat them and the glass back up.

I imagine that at any given time in a Corning factory there would be various kilns in different stages of glass making.

Police also theorized that perhaps the masked man took Dale's body out of the plant when they saw him using a pallet jack to transport something "large". It could have been the platinum, but it also could have been Dale's body.

[Hambone2421]

Police also theorized that perhaps the masked man took Dale's body out of the plant when they saw him using a pallet jack to transport something "large". It could have been the platinum, but it also could have been Dale's body.

This case truly is a mystery. If the pallet jack was indeed carrying the platinum, then where is Dale Kerstetter? Adversely, if it was carrying Dale Kerstetter, then how did the platinum get out?

[Hambone2421]

Also, I would highly recommend to moneypenny that she and her family reach out to the producers of "Disappeared" and try to get Dale's segment on there. It could reignite an investigation or perhaps jog some memories.

[zack007attack]

This case truly is a mystery. If the pallet jack was indeed carrying the platinum, then where is Dale Kerstetter? Adversely, if it was carrying Dale Kerstetter, then how did the platinum get out?

If Dale was killed inside the factory, then it's possible the pallet jack was carrying both the platinum and his body, or just the body. If he was killed inside the factory, maybe he was forced into the bag then murdered inside it in order to contain any trace evidence. If the robber was just moving the platinum, maybe he took the route overlooked by the camera then once he was outside, he had accomplices to load it into their getaway vehicle then took off.

There's also the possibility Dale was killed outside the factory because the police dog-search was sniffing him out and even though they were lead to the platinum tank, they found no trace of Dale anywhere else in the building (blood spatters, his .22 pistol, etc). If the pallet jack was carrying just the platinum, maybe Dale was forced outside the building via a route that wasn't overlooked by security cameras and into the robbers' getaway vehicle and murdered later.

The police found his truck in the parking lot of the factory with his daypack, the empty holster for his handgun, and the keys in the ignition. The robbers might have forced him to help them. He might have picked up his daypack on his way out because that's where he kept his gun and maybe his car keys too but he wasn't quick enough to defend himself and the robbers killed him first. Or on this night, he left his daypack in the truck; he gets to his truck in an attempt to escape to the police station and reach for his pistol to defend himself. The robbers stop him before he could start his car and/or get a shot off; then they take his body and gun, then leave. If this is what happened, maybe Dale was murdered outside his truck because the police probably would have found blood spatter or other evidence unless they didn't think he was dead.

[Hambone2421]

So I'll give you another - in 1992 the PA State Police called me because they thought the FL State Police may have found dad's body(!) but it was missing the head and the hands. They took x-rays from a knee surgery that he had had done years before to compare. The doctor that performed the surgery compared the x-ray from the found body to dad's and declared they were not the same. Shortly thereafter, this same doctor ends up running from law, I can't honestly remember why, I think he tried to kill his ultra rich wife or something, and he is found, on a fluke, in Canada during the Winter Olympics! Guess who else had seen this doctor? Yep, rich man in FL who owed my dad a favor, to say the least.

Moneypenny, if you're still visiting this board, have you ever asked why they believed a body found in Florida may have been your dads? I only ask because your dad disappeared from Pennsylvania, a number of states away. They must have had some sort of tip or thought for some specific reason that it could have been Dale.

[BlueMoon91]

I'm a first time poster, though I've been a UM fan for years. While I've been a visitor to this board for a while, this thread was the one that finally convinced me to take a few minutes to join.

I'm of what appears to be the majority opinion, that Mr. Kerstetter was NOT involved in any wrong doing. In face, I just re-watched this segment again last night and came away with a few impressions.

First, I always find it a little odd whenever it is speculated that someone just "walked away" from his/her life and family. I realize that this can and does indeed happen on occasion, but I believe that it is never as simple as just walking away. IMHO, it takes a lot to leave behind everything you've every known, everything that has ever been of comfort to you, everything that has essentially made up your entire way of life, and keep going never to look back. I also believe that while once upon a time it may have been a simple matter to lose yourself in the crowd so to speak, in this day and age staying lost is not such an easy prospect.

My second impression was of how seemingly eager Mr. Kerstetter's former employer was to accuse him of a crime. It seemed odd to me that the company would place Mr. Kerstetter in such a trusted position yet so readily believed him guilty based on a video clip that was at very best ambiguous. I just had a hard time reconciling this.

I also agreed with a point made by previous posters. Stealing the valuables is one thing...finding a market and then buyer for this type of stolen merchandise is quite another.

Like many others, I wish the very best for the family and hope that they someday find the answers that they've sought for so long. Thanks for listening!

[scc1222]

along with all the other reasons,I also do not think Dale was involved,and IMO,the way he looked at the camera said it all...his expression just screams 'helpless victim'.There was real fear in his face,IMO.I don't think that can be faked,esp. not at such a vulnerable moment.

[Hambone2421]

I also believe that while once upon a time it may have been a simple matter to lose yourself in the crowd so to speak, in this day and age staying lost is not such an easy prospect.

110% Agree with this statement. Sure back in the 80's it may have been easier but today, there is just way too much technology. Security cameras are everywhere, we have the internet, Amber alert's, etc.. Its just too hard to stay hidden nowadays.

I made a comment in one of the threads on here a while back that if any of the missing people from UM have not yet been found, then IMO, they are dead, sadly. Just too much technology nowadays for someone to not have spotted them. As much as I hate to say it, those people are likely buried in a shallow grave somewhere never to be found. Dale Kerstetter is likely one of those.

[TheCars1986]

Never thought about the possibility of Kerstetter's body being placed inside a kiln. Being a glass factory, I'm sure Corning had several kiln's in their plant. I wonder if they were big enough to dispose of a body?

[scc1222]

what does anyone think might have been in the bag? I lean twds it being dale's body.could it have been taken to a kiln after that,or was it taken outside? I need to rewatch the segment,I don't recall righthoffhand.

[BlueMoon91]

what does anyone think might have been in the bag? I lean twds it being dale's body.could it have been taken to a kiln after that,or was it taken outside? I need to rewatch the segment,I don't recall righthoffhand.


Good question scc! Of course I can only speculate, but my theory is....both were in that bag. Of course everyone is different, but I always believe that it's human nature to cut corners and find the most efficient way of getting the job done. Especially if someone is in a high risk, high stress situation (such as armed robbery and possibly homicide).

Because of the poor quality of the video clip (if indeed the genuine version was aired in the segment), it seemed difficult to get a handle on the actual size of the bag. I could easily see the intruder putting Mr. Kerstetter in the bottom of the bag and then piling the stolen goods on top. Why take two trips when one will suffice? JMHO as always....

[Necco]

Never thought about the possibility of Kerstetter's body being placed inside a kiln. Being a glass factory, I'm sure Corning had several kiln's in their plant. I wonder if they were big enough to dispose of a body?

Even art studio glass blowing kilns are big enough to put a body in.


As for what was in the bag... my guess is the pipes.

[BlueMoon91]

Even art studio glass blowing kilns are big enough to put a body in.


As for what was in the bag... my guess is the pipes.


Oh man....that possibility makes me think of the Bocks case. *shudder*

[mikewho]

I've always felt dale was innocent. Hopefully they will one day solve this case.