Tony Lombardi

[kadrmas15]

This case was on UM yesterday. 22 year old Tony Lombardi Jr was found dead in his bedroom by his mother in August of 1990. The police of course came over and instantly ruled it suicide. The police said the reason why he killed himself was because he was depressed over getting arrested for drunk driving two days earlier and having his corvette impounded. Let me tell you, I have been arrested for drunk driving myself once, and it does stink it is embarassing and it makes you feel stupid. BUT I would certainly never kill myself over something like that and I cant imagine anyone else that would.

There was so much to this case that tells me it wasnt suicide. This young man had no obvious signs of depression, he was popular with many people, especially the ladies and had a couple of women he was seeing at the time of his death. Tony was found naked in his room. His mother said that Tony was the type that he wouldnt sleep naked. She also said his head was on top of two pillows and that the bullethole was in the headboard in a place that was below the pills. There were obvious defensive wounds on Tony's knuckles and he also had a gash on his chest I think. It was obvious that at least one person had been holding him down forcibly. Where the gun landed was questionable as well. The cops said that he killed himself also because he had traces of metal on his hands. Yet Tony worked in a factory where he constantly handled metal cans.

The creepy thing was when Tony's mom came home and saw his light off with the door closed. She actually went about the house and did her nightly chores and she actually went into her bedroom and shut the door and was laying in bed reading or something right before she was going to go to bed. She then heard the door open and close and she heard footsteps. She assumed it was Tony coming home. She got up and went out into the hallway and saw his door closed but the light was now on. She knocked on the door a couple of times opened it and went in the room and what a sight she saw. She called the cops and I think they estimated Tony had been dead for at least 5 hours. That is scary to think that the footsteps Tony's mom heard was his killer. Why the killer was hanging out in Tony's room for hours after the murder is what I dont understand.

I think the killer was the boyfriend of one of Tony's girlfriends. Remember one of Tony's girlfriends was with another man at the same time she was seeing Tony and this man did not like her seeing another man. Tony tried to mediate the situation and this man had told Tony's friend "Tony is going to get what is coming to him." That doesnt look good and I am surprised the cops never investigated it. I know Tony's friend said the cops never interviewed him, never even attempted to contact him. This seems like another example of shotty police work. A case where the cops instantly decide it is suicide and basically either dont have the manpower or just dont want to investigate and spend all the time on it so they just label it suicide to make it easy. Kind of reminds me of the Danny Williams case in terms of the cops labeling an obvious murder, suicide.

[kadrmas15]

I believe this case occurred in August of 1990 in Westerville, Ohio which is on the very northeastern corner of the Columbus metro area. Westerville is what many thought was a nice suburb and has a population of about 35,000. I believe that the law enforcement agencies involved in this case were the Westerville Police Department and the Franklin County Sheriff's Department. I dont know the reputations of these law enforcement agencies but after this case I dont think too highly of either one.

[peachysquirt21]

I have never believed he commited suicide. One of the things that sticks out in this case is why would anyone get naked to commit suicide. That is just ridiculous. Of all the suicide cases I have heard & read about. Not one case the person has been naked. I think the police just decided this was a suicide & didnt wanna bother with doing a further investigation. I still cannot believe they can say this is a suicide & to think people are gonna believe that it was. I believe Tony was murdered & it's really sad that his family cannot get some closure on what really happened to him.

[kadrmas15]

Yes! I had forgotten that point. I have never heard of anyone killing themselves while they were naked either. Tony's mother also said that he would never let family members or other see him naked. I think this was a major screw up on the part of the Westerville, Ohio Police Department. This is so obviously not a suicide though. As I said above, a guy had threatened to kill Tony and a friend of Tony's had even talked to this same man and the man told Tony's friend "Tony is going to get what is coming to him." Supposedly the cops never pursued the theory of homicide and never even interviewed Tony's friend or the man that had threatened Tony. I think the cops from the time they got there were dead set on suicide and werent going to be driven off that point. That one detective lied his tail off. "All unexplained deaths are considered homicides until they are proven otherwise." How was it proved suicide? I guess that is what I am wondering with this. The cops theory was Tony killed himself because he was depressed about getting arrested for drunk driving two days before his death. Getting a dui is depressing but I have never heard of anyone killing themselves after getting one. I am sure the cops never backed off their conclusion and I was surprised the coroner also ruled it suicide despite the defense wounds on Tony's body.

[Aaron321]

Why isn't there more investigtation into these possible suspects.i mean this comment:"Tony is going to get what is coming to him."should've been a red alert from his friend.I mean obviously his friend probably thought the guy would just beat Tony up or something not murder him. and at the very least would warn his friend,hey so and so said you better stop messing with his girlfriend or he's gonna give you trouble.have police questioned this guy,alibi,etc.?did they dust the room for fingerprints,etc?were neighbors questioned about seeing anyone leaving the house from the front,back,or out a window as it looked like his room was on an upper floor?we are not hearing the whole story which leads me to believe it was suicide.

[kadrmas15]

I just dont buy it was suicide. This young man had no reason to kill himself. Tony was aware that this guy was angry with him. I think Tony thought that too that if the guy would ever come after him that he would just try to beat him up or something and not kill him. Tony was the one that asked his friend to mediate the situation between him and this other guy. When his friend talked to the guy, the guy said "I have no problem with you, there is nothing to talk about. Tony is going to get what is coming to him." That comment should send up a red flag in anyones mind. Clearly something is missing here. You hear stuff from Tony's parents, you hear stuff from the police.

I guess I didnt find it acceptable, the ruling of suicide, because the cops never really looked at homicide as an option. The cops big theory on it was Tony killed himself because he was depressed because he got arrested for drunk driving two days before his death. I have never heard of anyone killing themselves after getting arrested for that. I have certainly never heard of anyone that had no prior history of depression going off the deep end over a drunk driving arrest.

There definitly was unanswered questions. The mother hearing the noises she did. If indeed she did hear these noises and see his light off and then on a short while later clearly it wasnt Tony doing any of it because he was already dead. It was estimated he had died around 7:00 p.m. if I remember right. It seemed to me that the cops just decided it was suicide and were dead set with that conclusion and were not willing to change it or even consider that it wasnt suicide. They never did interview Tony's friend or the man who made the threats. It seemed like the Westerfield, OH police department gets the award for shoddy police work.

[Aaron321]

I have come up with another theory although i don't claim to be right,just a theory.When it comes to suicide there are so many cases i've heard of that people kill themselves and family members are left wondering why.I had a teacher in my middle schools son commit suicide because his parents grounded him for some reason to this day i can't remeber what for.as far as the naked part goes,i don't know why someone comitting suicide would strip naked first,but on the same hand why would the killer strip him naked.the only conclusion i can think of was that he sleeps naked and if he was murdered it was while he was sleeping.Another point is the mother hearing noises and the light flickering on and off.on one hand you can have a sloppy murderer who thinks no one is home and moves casually around his room.you would almost have to have an amatuer because no one would purposely turn the light on and off and try to draw attention to himself after having comitted a horrible crime if he could hear the mother in the hallway.Yes clearly Tony wasn't turning the light on and off and didn't make the noises,so i guess it's the mothers word against the police assessment.On one hand i clearly can't rule out he was murdered,my gut just says it was suicide.

[kadrmas15]

I disagree. Now I do like how you broke it down on why you think it was suicide. However I just dont think it is. Tony's mom said he did not sleep naked. Yes, why would someone strip naked before they killed themselves. At first I also thought, why would the killer strip his clothes off if in fact Tony was murdered. The only thing I can think of is, the killer stripped off Tony's clothes to destroy evidence. Could this be? Clearly we are not hearing the whole story from anyone. I think both the police and the parents are hiding things. We just arent hearing the whole story here. My gut tells me he was murdered but suicide is possible. Basically what I am saying is the cops shouldnt have just ruled it suicide and have that be the end of it. They should have at least labeled the death undetermined until they could figure out for sure how he died.

[UMLongtimefan]

Yes, why would someone strip naked before they killed themselves.


ADULT DISCUSSION WARNING...

Without trying to be too graphic and keeping the family friendly forum in mind I'm not even going to type what its called. Let me just say that some people accidently kill themselves while doing a certain solo activity and they do this by hanging/strangling themselves. While this more commonly is referred to by medical examiners as an accidental death, it can also be misclassified as murder or suicide.

Obviously that's not the case with Lombardi. I can't remember every detail of the case... but was the gun his? Is it possible he was playing/moving with the gun after or before such a solo activity and the gun accidently went off killing him? Maybe he forgot it was loaded?

Also as I recall another fact in the case was the mom thinking the lights were on and they were found off.. could this have been another case of an eyewitness getting their times wrong?

The nude thing doesn't really bother me as an important clue, if Lombardi was left alone in his room which I'm sure his parents afforded their adult son some privacy maybe he did sleep in the nude how would his mom know?? I doubt he walked out in front of her in the nude but he may have slept naked knowing his parents rarely entered his room while he was sleeping.

I'm not saying I totally buy it was a sucide or even an accidental death, but the evidence pointing to a larger conspiracy seemed lacking to me.

[skunk ape]

What gets me is the injuries to Tony and the broken watch. How can that all be explained along with the tragectory of the bullet.

2 questions I'd like answered in their investigation.

1: Was there a bullethole in the pillows?

2: Where did the gun come from?

[kadrmas15]

Yes, that is what got me too. How the watch was broken, I had actually forgot about that. I think he was fighting for his life. I just dont buy the ruling of suicide. It should at least be switched to undetermined until they could eliminate homicide. They have new detectives for the most part in that department by now I am sure. I think that case should be re-opened. There is just too many unanswered questions for it to be ruled suicide. I think this is just a prime example of shoddy police work. The police failed to interview crucial people to the investigation. If I had heard a guy had said "Tony is going to get what is coming to him." That would send red flags off in my head and he would be the first to be interviewed.

[kamy]

Yes, that is what got me too. How the watch was broken, I had actually forgot about that. I think he was fighting for his life. I just dont buy the ruling of suicide. It should at least be switched to undetermined until they could eliminate homicide. They have new detectives for the most part in that department by now I am sure. I think that case should be re-opened. There is just too many unanswered questions for it to be ruled suicide. I think this is just a prime example of shoddy police work. The police failed to interview crucial people to the investigation. If I had heard a guy had said "Tony is going to get what is coming to him." That would send red flags off in my head and he would be the first to be interviewed.


While I think it's obviously a murder, I will say that I sleep naked, but my parent's would have never known that as I wouldn't tell them, that's just weird! I would throw something on everytime I got up, whether it was to go to the bathroom, or to get up in the morning, so the whole "Tommy didn't sleep naked" thing doesn't do anything for me.

[SP4CE INV4DERZ]

I will say that I sleep naked, but my parent's would have never known that as I wouldn't tell them, that's just weird!

But... you told us..? :lookaroun

[Chris Billings]

[QUOTE=kadrmas15]This case was on UM yesterday.

Unrelated to this case....what channel now carries UM? I didnt think UM was airing anyplace?

Anyways, back to ur discuss about Tony. This story has some interesting twists which suggest to me something other than suicide. A good one for Cyril Wecht to investigate, dont you think?

Chris

[Chris Billings]

This case was on UM yesterday.

Unrelated to this case....what channel now carries UM? I didnt think UM was airing anyplace?

Anyways, back to ur discuss about Tony. This story has some interesting twists which suggest to me something other than suicide. A good one for Cyril Wecht to investigate, dont you think?

Chris

[phillipscurve]

This case was on UM yesterday.

Unrelated to this case....what channel now carries UM? I didnt think UM was airing anyplace?





kadrmas15 made that post in June 2006, when LRW still carried UM.

[kadrmas15]

Well, personally, I dont know why it is viewed as arrogance on the part's of Tony's friends and family to think he was murdered when there was conclusive evidence to show that he was. The cops excuse was lame, they claim he killed himself because he had been arrested for drunk driving? I have been arrested for drunk driving myself, I know everyone isnt the same but the thought of offing myself because I was arrested for a misdemeanor while embarassing didnt put me on the brink of suicide.

What convinced me that it was a murder was the location of the bullet, the physical injuries to Tony to suggest that he was held forcibly down, and there were other factors. However, once the police came to the conclusion it was suicide, they werent going to back off from that even though basically nothing backed up their conclusion that it was suicide, except their lame theory that he offed himself because he was just in so much internal turmoil over his dui arrest.

[peachysquirt21]

I don't know how anyone can believe or even sugest for that matter that he committed suicide. The very first time I watched this story, I did not believe there was any possibility that he could have committed suicide. To even sugest it in this case is just ridiculous IMO. He had bruises on his chest, his watch was broken, the bullet hole was alot lower then where his head was positioned. For LE to even rule this as a suicide just floors me. Especially them given the reason for him to commit suicide.

If I was a friend or family member, I be very upset & angry with LE for suggesting there conclusion on Tony's death.

[wiseguy182]

Crystaldawn: thank you for putting this segment on volume 7. I feel obligated to mention that I have a fuller version of the segment somewhere, that contains a bit about Tony receving another death threat the week he died, from somebody else. Apparently he was involved in some sort of traffic altercation, and that person followed him home and threatened his life. I believe this was in the company of his father. I think at the time they just wrote it off as somebody that was just steamed at the moment, but I feel this is important to the case, so I thought I would mention it.

the other death threat came from a man that was living with one of the ladies Tony was seeing. I am leaning towards this person being responsible. And I do think he was murdered. I don't really understand the posters that are saying there is no evidence that he committed suicide: we have not one, but two death threats from two different people in the same week, a boatload of bruises on his chest, a broken jaw, a broken watch on the floor, the light going on/off in his room thing, a virtually impossible bullet trajectory for the angle he was found dead at. And no evidence?! sheesh. :rolleyes:

[wiseguy182]

I just watched the extended version. There was also a witness (in this case a neighbor) to the other death threat Tony received (the traffic altercation one) and this person also was not contacted by the police. sounds like another case of shoddy police work to me.

an important aspect of the case I don't think has been brought up before: That Tony missed work. It doesn't give a timeframe, but one would have to conclued that its several hours he missed, then was found dead later that night at home. This would mean that Tony had been dead for some time in the room, and that the light that Cheryl saw would have had to been turned on by the killers. This would mean that the killer(s) were suprised by Cheryl's entry into the house late an night, which would make sense: they probably figured that middle aged housewives coming home late at night was pretty atypical, and thus weren't planning on anyone coming into the house.

[Corky Kneivel]

Man I am waaaayyy in the minority on this one because I don’t agree with any of you that think he was murdered. To me its blatantly obvious that Tony Lombardi killed himself.

This is the only “cops say suicide, family says murder” UM segment I feel 100% positive the cops got right. I think the police did their job correctly and efficiently. I saw nothing in the segment that would not be explainable with “suicide” scenario, as usually happens with these types of segments, and nothing was offered to have me think he had a serious threat to his life. Quite the contrary, I feel like all the evidence presented would have me hollering “suicide” even if the segment was presented without an official police stance on the matter. Say they found it to be an “undetermined” cause of death, for example, I still would feel like it was a suicide based on my impression of what was presented. I think Tony’s friend is not a credible source. I think his mother owes the police dept. an apology.

[kadrmas15]

I dont know, I dont know how anyone could think this was a suicide, except for the cops who due to their personal dislike of Tony Lombardi for a DUI arrest he had, plus the fact they didnt really feel like doing their jobs, wrote it off a suicide even though in my opinion there was nothing to suggest that it was a suicide. THis sort of reminds me of the Kathy Bonderson case, just another example of the police writing off a murder and labeling a suicide, no investigation, case closed. That seems to be what both the cops and Korky for some reason are doing.

Basically, I wonder, why you are so adamant that it not only was not a murder, but by your theory there is no way possible that it could have been a murder. I wonder how you came to that conclusion? Why would his friend lie? I mean, yes, of course we would expect families to not want to admit their loved ones committed suicide and that in some cases they would rather have a person jailed for a murder that didnt happen then just admit their loved one didnt kill themselves.

However in this case I feel it is pretty obvious that Lombardi was a suicide. He had defensive wounds, the line of trejectory for the bullet made zero sense, Lombardi had received death threats in the weeks and months before his murder. I think the Westerville, Ohio police decided from the moment they walked in the house that it was a suicide, no if's, and's or but's about it. Once they decided it was a suicide that was the end of the investigation and they were not interesting in even considering the possibility this was a murder.

Then again, this is Corky so I can never really tell if he is being serious or joking, I usually get a kick out of your posts because they are quite funny and entertaining.

[kadrmas15]

I think Corky is joking, I just dont know how he could be serious here, but he has such a quirky sense of humor it can be really hard to tell when he is joking and when he is being serious.

Wiseguy, you hit the nail on the head, there is just no doubt in my mind that Tony Lombardi was murdered. There was the broken watch on the floor, the body injuries, the sign of a struggle, Lombardi had received death threats on at least two occassions in the days and weeks before his death. The trajectory of the bullet was not even close to matching with a suicide.

Yet the Westerville, Ohio Police's explanation for all of this? Tony killed himself out of a deep depressing he had from being arrested for drunk driving and having his license possibly suspended for up to 90 days! That is the best they could come up with? I mean, geese, if they were going to completely write off this investigation and pass it off as a suicide, you would think they would at least come up with a better explaination than that.

This reminds me eerily of the Tommy Burkett case, another case where I just cant believe the cops got away with writing these off as suicides and that being case closed. However, in the case of Burkett he knew too much about drugs and the cops avoided the case like the plague because the feds told them to stay out of it.

There are certain other cases that I have always wondered though when the cops say suicide and the family says murder, of whether they were really murders or not. Danny Williams is one I tend to think was probably a suicide too.

I think Raeann Mossor is a toss-up, it is just really hard to tell, I do kind of find that odd though how the police wrote off her ex-boyfriend as a suspect. What would clinch it for me one way or the other would be if it were identified who the gun that killed her belonged to. I mean who the heck goes around carrying a rifle in their car?

Other ones that I am just unsure of, one that I actually lean towards suicide is Jeffrey Digman, I dont know what it is about it, I just have always found that strange how he was killed, but then again, I cant be sure that he killed himself, mainly because of the Marines going through his journal and ripping pages out of it.

That Chad guy that was in the Army that was an MP, I dont think he killed himself, that one at least to me was an obvious murder. Most of these cases I wouldnt be comfortable saying the person for sure committed suicide, Kathy Bonderson was another obvious murder, I mean it just amazes me how some of these cops either unintentionally or on purpose bungle these cases so badly.

Kenneth Ingy was one where it wasnt a suicide or a murder I dont think, it was an accident. Norman Ladner I lean towards either a murder or possibly an accident shooting but I dont think it was a suicide. Clarence Roberts killed himself but not until the 2nd fire. That Ralph guy that was in the Army was murdered as was Danny Casolaro.

Again, these are all my opinions they could be wrong.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Blatantly obvious eh? Let me recap the 5 signs that point to murder

1. broken watch on floor
2. bruises on chest
3. trajectory for bullet
4. light on in room
5. death threats

#4. Don't forget that the light was on when his mom came home, then went off. Or was it the reverse? In any case, there was some switching of the light switch AFTER Tony was dead.


Random note: I love these boards because there's no telling WHICH case is going to be the next hotly contested case. :)

[Corky Kneivel]

This is awesome! I like this dialogue and debating over the case and I will respond to this email shortly, I promise.

[kadrmas15]

Still waiting: I am not counting on a sensible response though since the stuff you were claiming is so ridiculous there is no way you could even try to back it up.

[crystaldawn]

Still waiting: I am not counting on a sensible response though since the stuff you were claiming is so ridiculous there is no way you could even try to back it up.

Lets remember that this is a message board and everyone should be able to state their opinions without being criticized for it. I personally think Lombardi was murdered as do a lot of posters but its interesting that Corky disagrees so he can give us his reasons and then we can have a friendly debate, not argument, on the case.

[Corky Kneivel]

Let me begin by saying that I have tried a couple times to completely write out how I feel about this case and have never been satisfied enough with what I wrote to warrant posting it. Hopefully the third time will be the charm.

While going over in my mind how I want to reply I have gone back and forth about which is the best way to state my case. I hope you all will indulge me as I try to separate my breakdown and analyzing of the known evidence, as presented by the segment, from my responses and challenges to poster’s comments. I apologize in advance if it gets too convoluted or confusing, but please highlight and specify any passages that need further erudition from me.

And now…on with the show….

My initial gut reaction to the segment was that Tony Lombardi, while in a deeply depressed state of mind, decided things had gotten too tough and were soon to get tougher, and offed himself in his bed with a gun. I still think this is exactly what happened and don’t think anything has been presented to convince me otherwise.

To address some of the aspects of the segment:
The murder scenario, as described by Tony’s mom, states that the murderer was inside Tony’s room when his mom got home and indeed stayed in there for several hours, with the lights off, before leaving while mom was in her bedroom. She comes back out of her room and noticing that Tony’s bedroom light is now on, enters his room to discover him deceased. I have a problem with this recounting because I don’t feel the mom is credible. In her UM interview, and the way the recreation is presented, she hears a specific door noise which prompts her to come out to the hall. However, as the police officer interviewed in the segment reveals, in her original statement, while all the events are fresh in her mind, she couldn’t say what the noise was. When asked, “Was it a regular house noise” and given specific choices, one of which was a door being shut, she states “I don’t know what it was”. I find this inconsistency troubling and I think it discredits her later insistence that she specifically heard a door being shut, presumably the killers leaving, which leads her to find Tony. Extrapolating from that, coupled with the officer’s revelation that she needed time to calm down and make her statement, I don’t count her story of the lights going from off to on as being credible either. Not only because I find her to be is lacking in credit, to me the whole situation HIGHLY unlikely.

Remember what Robert Stack says is the one thing everyone agrees on, that Tony was dead long before his mom ever came home at midnight. So a killer comes to the house, murders Tony, and then hangs around for several hours, in the dark, until someone else comes home? Then the killer decides to hang around even longer, all the while in possession of a working and fully loaded gun, already having overpowered and murdered a 22 year old man, and is afraid to come out and leave while a middle aged woman is alone in the house doing laundry?


Let’s also ponder all the necessary factors of the murder scenario. A murderer, presumably the man who was heard threatening Tony’s life in the weeks before his death, has come to the house at a time when it is just Tony alone and naked in bed. If it IS this man, we can assume he came with the intent to kill as the family and friend contend this man has threatened to do that very thing. So if we assume he came to kill, I think we can assume he brought the gun with him**. This man kills Tony, after somehow getting in and overpowering him naked in his bed, engages in the bizarre “hanging around in the dark” behavior described above, and then leaves the gun there?!?

** - I think the gun belonged to the Lombardis. Its never stated in the UM segment but if it wasn’t somehow connected to the family I think the family would point to a strange gun being found at the scene as proof positive of a murder. I also think if it wasn’t traceable to the Lombardi family the police would have explained in the segment that they investigated and surmised Tony copped a gun in secret. The fact that it’s never mentioned leads me to believe the gun belonged in that house.


So now let’s explore the murder scenario with the gun belonging in the house.
In this scenario I think there are two options:
1. The killer comes to the house with the intent to kill and brings his own gun along.
2. The killer comes to the house, with whatever intent, and carries no gun.
Either way, the killer somehow ends up in the house in possession of the Lombardi’s gun. Did he know where to find it? Did it he overpower Tony and get control of it? Did he use his own gun to order Tony to go and get his own gun? What possible scenario makes sense for a killer to come into a house, unarmed, somehow obtain possession of the family gun, and then overpower and murder a physically fit 22 year old man with no signs of struggle in the house? If you are pointing to Tony’s bruised chest, broken watch, and broken jaw as being signs of an altercation then I would counter by saying that those are some serious wounds to sustain while there is absolutely NO evidence of a fight occurring. No kicked over chairs, no scraped knuckles on Tony, no fibers or hairs or blood or anything from the killer.

A very bright and funny individual suggests that this was a “crime of passion”. I’m assuming that she means to suggest a scenario in which the killer came to the house, found Tony and a woman romantically engaged, and then murdered Tony in a fit of rage. This scenario doesn’t make sense to me because how many crimes of passion, fit of rage, type murders end with only a single bullet being fired? This scenario demands that a single bullet is fired after NO physical confrontation and in the all-too-common-UM-explanation “murder made to look like suicide” criminal-master-mind motif by someone who was apparently killing in the heat of the moment. That sounds like an awful lot of pre-meditation for a spur of the moment killing. And once again…there was no trace evidence of anyone else. Also, I think anyone going with the “killer interrupts a romantic engagement” scenario is automatically asserting that the investigating authorities seriously have zero clue as to what they’re doing. Not to be too graphic but let’s be serious adults here, a romantic entanglement lasting longer than 5 minutes will lead to a few identifiable fluids being present at the scene. Also considering Tony was a 22 year old man with a couple different girlfriends it would be a logical assumption that there might be a used condom or condom wrapper, or hell…he WAS 22 years old…perhaps 3 or 4 used condoms lying around. If this was a crime of passion, by name a very specific act involving elevated emotions and irrational behavior, it is the neatest and most well thought out crime of passion on record.


No physical trace evidence was mentioned by either the family or the police that Tony had company; no physical trace evidence to point to that a killer was ever present. The only suggestion that anyone else was in this house at all comes from Tony’s mom. You can criticize and condemn the investigation all you want but it’s baseless and has no foundation outside of “he said, she said”. In my opinion the police are the only ones who ever examined the case from all sides. Tony’s family and friends are the ones who have come to a conclusion and then fit the evidence to meet that conclusion. The police take the known facts, the presentable evidence, and come to the conclusion that speaks to.

Okay so this only briefly touches on the murder scenarios. I will add more later but I wanted to get this in so you can digest it and pick it apart as you see fit.

[crystaldawn]

Wow that person who suggested this was a "crime of passion" sounds brilliant. :lol: I think I could discount the whole timeline of the mother and the light being off. It actually makes more sense to the murder theory which I believe. It didn't mention whether Tony had a habit of sleeping naked and quite possible his parents didn't know but considering all of the women Tony dated surely that fact could be easily found out by the authorities. They didn't produce anything going on in Tony's life that would have made him suicidal. Surely this guy going around dating a ton of girls sounds like he's enjoying his life and I certainly don't think a DUI would have made him want to end it all. Its quite possible the gun belonged to Tony. The fact there was one maybe two people out there threatening his life could have prompted him to get a gun for protection. I think the fact that he was naked (if it wasn't his nature to sleep that way) is another point in favor of it being a crime of passion. This man could have interrupted Tony with his girlfriend and possibly seen a gun that possibly Tony kept in plain sight, shot him with it and left. Who would commit suicide while they were naked - sounds a bit bizarre. No doubt there are probably at least a few people around town who know exactly who murdered Tony but are afraid to mention anything for fear of losing their own lives. Lets also remember that UM does leave out some key facts in order to substantiate the credible tips from the bogus ones so there could have been some evidence left at the crime scene that they just didn't mention.

Interesting and well thought out theory Corky but I still say murder. :)

[Corky Kneivel]

I don't really understand the posters that are saying there is no evidence that he committed suicide: we have not one, but two death threats from two different people in the same week, , the light going on/off in his room thing, a virtually impossible bullet trajectory for the angle he was found dead at. And no evidence?! sheesh. :rolleyes:


You keep pointing to the bullet trajectory as evidence. The bullet trajectory theory as provided by…who? That esteemed forensic analyst Dr. Cheryl Lombardi? The lady who said if “[she] doesn’t exceed in proving her son was murdered in this life, she’ll do it from eternity”? Well, I certainly understand why you’d throw in with her…I mean she’s obviously an unbiased and impartial authority with several years training in ballistics. I’ll even admit to this, make of what you will: I don’t understand what she’s saying about the pillows and the bullet. I’ve watched the segment about a half dozen times and I still don’t see how this is proof he was being held down and shot. Maybe you can use that as proof I’m too stupid to get it, or maybe you can explain it to me better.


More importantly though, I'm curious as to how "a boatload of bruises on his chest, a broken jaw, a broken watch on the floor" automatically mean that he was murdered? Those things prove murder about as much as a guy receiving a death threat in the weeks prior to his death. Uh…whoops. That’s another of the “rock solid” cornerstones of the murder theory.


Well I got a little theory, like to hear it?


Tony Lombardi was a depressed young man who was very unhappy with his life. In his eyes he worked a dead end factory job filling up cans of baby food, was prematurely balding, still lived with his mom and the baby food job wasn’t going to put enough cash in his pockets for his own place, and in recent weeks had a couple of altercations in which he needed his dad and his best friend to intercede and stick up for him. Here was a guy who felt emasculated, trapped, and absolutely terrified that life was going to get no better than this. Then, on top of all that, he gets arrested for a DUI. Not only does he lose his car, his last vestige of freedom, he now has a record and impending legal troubles.


ATTENTION: I know all of this, especially the DUI part, would not be enough to make any of us, or any other rational and sound-thinking individuals commit suicide. I know this. However in this scenario, which makes sense enough to the investigating authorities, we aren't dealing with someone who was thinking rationally. In this scenario, Tony had already broken with the basic human instinct for self preservation. Please do not dismiss a theory as to why someone would commit suicide with the deliberately misleading or incredibly naïve comment "nobody would kill themselves over a DUI". The DUI is just the excuse, the final bit of proof to the suicide that their life is worthless and they are better off dead.


And you know what?! Maybe the DUI WASN’T the straw that broke the camel’s back in this situation. Perhaps Tony did have a confrontation the night before with the guy threatening Tony’s life. Tony, full of self loathing and humiliated that he can’t fight his own fights and has his dad and friend step in for him, has a confrontation with this guy that leads to fisticuffs. Tony then gets his jaw broken in the fight, sustains bruises, and perhaps gets his watch broken holding his hands up trying to protect his face. He goes home and sleeps. He wakes up in the morning finally a broken and defeated young man. He cannot stand the humiliation, the pain from his jaw, nor the thought of going on any longer.
-----ORRRRRR-----
He has no altercation with the guy, yet still wakes up that morning feeling worse than the day before and not able to bear it getting much worse. He gets the family gun and lays in bed suffering an almost incomprehensibly tortuous depression in which he considers his life over and he considers himself worthless. He holds the gun and hits himself with it, punishing himself for being weak or for whatever he perceives as his flaws. He breaks his watch to signify the time of death for his family, holds his gun (where? Did they ever say the path the bullet traveled through Tony?) to his head and…it is over. The lights are on in his room. The gun is on the body where it has come to rest after the shot. Several hours later Tony’s mom hears the gun drop from the body to the floor and goes to investigate.


Without question I got some of the events wrong in my little scenario. Maybe Tony held the gun to his head with one hand while punching himself in the chest with other trying to get up the nerve to do the deed. Maybe Tony broke his jaw when his body jerked during the shot. Maybe he broke his watch the night before in an accident on the can line and THAT was the final straw. Maybe the gun hit the floor as soon as he shot himself. I’m just supposing with these theories. But these suppositions of events, or supposition of events similar, in my opinion tell the true story behind the tangible evidence; infinitely more plausibly than any murder theory does.

[kadrmas15]

Well, I will just say here and now, if I offended you Corky I do apologize. Most of the time I think you are funny, most of the time we get along, I should have handled this in a more mature manner but I got frustrated not because of your opinion but because I was impatient in waiting for you to explain it. I should have just waited until you answered and not pushed the issue and aggrevated it and I do apologize for that. I dont know if you will accept it or not but I should have handled this in a better way and I am sorry that I didnt.

[kadrmas15]

Well Corky, after you stated your opinion, I am even more sorry for what I said, while I do not agree with your opinion, you did come up with a very detailed opinion, so I can tell you put a lot of thought into your opinion and I guess we will have to agree to disagree I guess. But you did do what appears to me to be extensive research into this topic although I dont agree with the conclusions you came to, but you did your research and I commend you for that.

[Corky Kneivel]

Wow that person who suggested this was a "crime of passion" sounds brilliant.

Well usually she's pretty sharp but she's a step behind on this one!:happyface

I think I could discount the whole timeline of the mother and the light being off. It actually makes more sense to the murder theory which I believe. It didn't mention whether Tony had a habit of sleeping naked and quite possible his parents didn't know but considering all of the women Tony dated surely that fact could be easily found out by the authorities.


They didn't produce anything going on in Tony's life that would have made him suicidal. Surely this guy going around dating a ton of girls sounds like he's enjoying his life and I certainly don't think a DUI would have made him want to end it all.


"They didn't produce..." = You don't agree with what they did say made him suicidal. This is the crux of the argument I guess between the "murder" crowd and the "suicide" crowd. In the segment Robert Stack is heard during a voice over saying (Paraphrasing) “Here is Tony Lombardi as his friends and family like to remember him…fun loving and quick with a smile” as if it shows Tony as some life of the party yukkin it up. Yet when I see look at the video of him, he looks completely uncomfortable being on camera and offers a weak smile and wave. I see a man regretfully acknowledging the camera’s presence. In my opinion, there should be a thought balloon from TL’s head in that video reading “Get that ****in camera off me. Right. Now.”. There is also an RS voice over, and I believe a comment from TL’s mom, regarding how much of a womanizer TL was even mentioning, with what I consider bizarre relish, that he was even seeing a woman who was living with another man. You stay classy, San Diego. While this has nothing to do with his death, for me, I do find it indicative of his overbearing mother’s insistence that he couldn’t, or wouldn’t, kill himself. As if to say, “But had no reason to kill himself? He loved his life as a skirt chasing adulterer!”



Its quite possible the gun belonged to Tony. The fact there was one maybe two people out there threatening his life could have prompted him to get a gun for protection.

That woudl be great to know. You know, I haven't seen the extended version Wiseguy182 spoke about...I wonder if it mentions whose gun it is in that one. The fact that its not brought out in the segment leads me to believe it was traceable to the family legally.

I think the fact that he was naked (if it wasn't his nature to sleep that way) is another point in favor of it being a crime of passion. This man could have interrupted Tony with his girlfriend and possibly seen a gun that possibly Tony kept in plain sight, shot him with it and left.

Boy you can't help but talk about him being naked can you? Geez...;)

Who would commit suicide while they were naked - sounds a bit bizarre.

To me the whole notion of suicide sounds bizarre. Once you've made that transition past preservation of your own life, you're not clicking on all cylinders. If you're asserting that this has to be a murder because being naked while commiting suicide is just too bizarre then I just don't know what to tell ya.



No doubt there are probably at least a few people around town who know exactly who murdered Tony but are afraid to mention anything for fear of losing their own lives.

LOL!! No doubt about, huh? They afraid of that evil criminal master mind going around offing guys and making it look like suicides? Those nefarious ne'er do wells are the scourge of Westerville, Ohio!!


Lets also remember that UM does leave out some key facts in order to substantiate the credible tips from the bogus ones so there could have been some evidence left at the crime scene that they just didn't mention.

Or they could have left out evidence found at the crime scene in order to make it look more mysterious and not so overwhelmingly obvious he killed himself.


Interesting and well thought out theory Corky but I still say murder. :)

Thanks you. Okay, Cee to the Dee...speak to some of the points I brought out if you would.
You stated you discount her version of the timeline and the lights...what do you mean by that exactly?
How credible is the mom? Credible on some things but nt others?
Do you think the murderer came there to kill or not to kill?
Did he walk or drive?
Did he come there with or without a gun?
How did the killer get in?
Was it the killer's intention to make the murder look like a suicide?
Why did he hang around for several hours before the mom got home?
Why was he afraid of leaving when she was there?
Why leave the gun?
Why turn the lights on when he left after making such an effort to go undetected for approx. 12 hours or so?
If he found Tony in bed with his girl how did she get there?
How did she leave?
Why didn't the investigators mention that they know Tony was having sex shortly before he died?
Do you think they tried to track down whoever was in bed with him that day? Stands to reason that they could either eliminate or match DNA from prospective paramours (with their consent of course).
Did the cops talk to neighbors to see if they saw any cars or people in and out of the house that day?
Did the cops do an inept job?
Do you believe Tony's mom's first version of the noise or the current version of the noise?
Do you believe Tony's friend was contacted by the police?

[peachysquirt21]

Sorry but I will never believe this man committed suicide. I see nothing that points to this. I see way too much that points to foul play.

[wiseguy182]

I am sending a copy of the extended version to Crystaldawn, I was going to have it out by now, but a bout of laryngitis kept me bedridden for a few days. She may put it on vol 13, or at least the clip of the second death threat.

Corky,

I have never heard anyone committing suicide over a DUI. I've known alot of people that have obtained them and some of them were arrested for it, and while getting one is certainly a fly in the ointment, none of them were even remotely close to committing suicide. I have never heard of any case in the news saying that someone committed suicide over a DUI. If Tony being without a car is the case, I'm sure he had several people that were willing to drive him. I think what some people were getting at was that since Tony was a big hit with the ladies, they were more implying that he was a well liked person and not that he was an adulterer. I think most people that committ suicide do it because they feel that not only has their life been a disappointment, but their life will continue to be a disappointment, or at least that's how they view it. The legal problems were pending at that point, so Tony was unsure of his future.

Regarding the door noise, Tony's mom never states that she specifically knew what it was, if I recall correctly. She heard a noise (that could have been anything) but that she heard a noise made her believe that her son was home. It doesn't matter what the noise was, hearing a noise period tells her her son was home. So she investigates. She later tells police she doesn't know what the noise was, which makes sense because she really doesn't know what it was.

As far as them not being afraid of killing Tony, but not wanting to run afould of a middle aged woman, the killer(s) might not have even been aware of the other occupants of the house.

Regarding the killer hanging around for hours, it is possible they didn't plan on anyone else coming home that night, and figured they had ample time to clean up, etc.

Regading whose gun it was, I don't believe the killers came unarmed. However, one possibility is that they bring their own gun, yet use the gun in the house to make it more look like suicide.

Regarding the naked thing, even though Tony probably wouldn't have cared much if he committed suicide, but he would have known his mother would have discovered him like that, and I can't imagine anyone wanting to be discovered nude by their mother under any circumstances.

Regarding no signs of struggle/no signs of anyone else, I'm actually not suprised by that, since I believe the killers had several hours in the house, they had ample time to clean up any signs of struggle and trace of themselves: something they would have to do in order for it to look like a suicide.

You are correct in that the bruises/broken jaw don't necessarily mean that it happened during his death. However, if it happened the previous night during a fight like you suggested, it's not something that can easily be hidden. Tony would have a hard time not occasionally wincing in pain with those he came in contact with the morning and afternoon of the day of his death.

Regarding the bullet trajectory, the bullet was found low on his headboard of his bead. he was found with the pillows covering the hole and his head above the pillows. This means that the bullet was lower than how he was found. Additionally, most people committing suicide by gun do it from by placing a gun to one side of the head, and the bullet exits the other side. This way, he would have had to do it by placing the bullet at his forehead, and it exiting the back of his head: possible, but unlikely.

Regarding the light on/off thing. You yourself stated that Tony had been dead for several hours. So how does his light get on? With the light being off, Tony's mom knew that he was either asleep or not there, so she wouldn't have had any reason to knock on the door in either instance. When the light comes on, she figures that he is both present and awake, and subsequently knocks on the door, which makes sense. The light switching on indicates another person was present.

Again, I would like to know what hours Tony's shift was supposed to be that night, something the segment doesn't mention. I think it factors into the case.

Goodness, I think that was my longest ever post.

[SP4CE INV4DERZ]

Regarding the light on/off thing. You yourself stated that Tony had been dead for several hours. So how does his light get on? With the light being off, Tony's mom knew that he was either asleep or not there, so she wouldn't have had any reason to knock on the door in either instance. When the light comes on, she figures that he is both present and awake, and subsequently knocks on the door, which makes sense. The light switching on indicates another person was present.

So the killer waits in Tony's room for hours with the lights off, then turns the light on for some reason, opens the door (which is what his mother claims to have heard) and escapes unheard in the same time it takes his mother to open her bedroom door. Doesn't sound right to me but I don't have any other thoughts or theories to offer except to say the door noise was just a normal house noise and the mother is going nutz regarding the lights on/off.

[wiseguy182]

So the killer waits in Tony's room for hours with the lights off, then turns the light on for some reason, opens the door (which is what his mother claims to have heard) and escapes unheard in the same time it takes his mother to open her bedroom door. Doesn't sound right to me but I don't have any other thoughts or theories to offer except to say the door noise was just a normal house noise and the mother is going nutz regarding the lights on/off.

maybe, but not necessarily. If there were killers in the house, I think everyone would agree that they would bank on Cheryl not coming home when she did. So when Cheryl comes home, they have to hide. Tony's room is the perfect spot, and if the light is off, she won't expect him to be in here/awake, which sure enough was the case. They wait until Cheryl is in bed, which would be a good opportunity, and also may explain the noise: which could have been anything, and may have been caused by the killer.

[SP4CE INV4DERZ]

maybe, but not necessarily. If there were killers in the house, I think everyone would agree that they would bank on Cheryl not coming home when she did. So when Cheryl comes home, they have to hide. Tony's room is the perfect spot, and if the light is off, she won't expect him to be in here/awake, which sure enough was the case. They wait until Cheryl is in bed, which would be a good opportunity, and also may explain the noise: which could have been anything, and may have been caused by the killer.

I still have the problem of the time between the killers closing the door and his mother coming out of her room which is the time it took the killers to escape, unseen and unheard. When did Tony die? Or more to the point; how long had his mother been in the house beforehand. If the killers were to wait out in his room with the lights off they would of risked his mother walking into the room at any time, they couldn't make a move at all otherwise they would of been heard. If his mother was in the house any real lenght of time, even an hour, the killer was alot more patient than what I expect most people would be.

[wiseguy182]

I still have the problem of the time between the killers closing the door and his mother coming out of her room which is the time it took the killers to escape, unseen and unheard. When did Tony die? Or more to the point; how long had his mother been in the house beforehand. If the killers were to wait out in his room with the lights off they would of risked his mother walking into the room at any time, they couldn't make a move at all otherwise they would of been heard. If his mother was in the house any real lenght of time, even an hour, the killer was alot more patient than what I expect most people would be.

The killers wouldn't have had much of a choice but to be quiet. The alternative (getting caught and going to prison) is much worse.

I agree that it would be nice to know the timeframe for alot of these things, estimated time of death, time Cheryl came home, time of Tony's shift, time she discovered him, etc.

[GaryJ06]

Didn't leave yet...had to go into work this morning (stupid end of year paperwork)...we all know how productive I'm being here too lol. ok on to my post:
well, when i first saw this story on UM, I was convinced that there was foul play afoot. But now, I'm just not sure, although I am leaning towards suicide. I agree with Corky in the fact that his life did blase. Being 22 years old, and having your whole lifed mapped out in front of you in a dead end job would make anyone depressed. Maybe the DUI was the last straw, maybe not, I just don't think that this would be the sole reason for a suicide.

As far as the light on/off thing, I think that TL's Mother easily could have mistaken the times that she saw the lights being on and off, as well as whether it was on or off first. This could happen due to the pure mental shock of disccovering her son's body, and out of trying to rationalize the situation, which would be very difficult to do. While she may be right, the fact that she was exposed to such traumatic stress makes be all the more skeptical.

The trajectory of the bullet is also interesting. While I am certainly not a ballistics expert, it is possible that he was holding the gun to his forehead. I agree that it is not the most likely place to hold a gun when one is attempting to end their own life, it is possible, and cannot be ignored. He may have needed to look at the weapon as a way to kind of gain the courage to pull the trigger. This also plays into my sleeping naked theory. He might not have wanted his mother to find him in that manner, but also may have been so distraught that he didn't care. Other than that I can't think of any other explination for the nakedness.

Crime of passion doesn't seem as likely to me either. It is true that he was sleeping with married women, but had the person who sent the death threat been the murderer, I don't believe he would wait in the bedroom for several hours. This person would not have been a professional killer, and would have probably wanted to flee the scene immediately.

I don't see a hitman being hired either, because I am sure that if the police had any reason to suspect murder, and had a suspect, that financial records would have been examined.

Finally after this long winded explination :p , the one reason that I haven't found so far to point towards suicide is that nobody was ever caught. There are a lot of cases when people are killed (unless a serial killer etc..) when the killer knows the victim. Invariably, those caught, no matter how careful they are at cleaning up evidence, are caught because they open their mouths to someone. They get drunk and talk, or simply blab, and then are turned in...as far as i know, this has not happened.

[wiseguy182]

As far as the light on/off thing, I think that TL's Mother easily could have mistaken the times that she saw the lights being on and off, as well as whether it was on or off first. This could happen due to the pure mental shock of disccovering her son's body, and out of trying to rationalize the situation, which would be very difficult to do. While she may be right, the fact that she was exposed to such traumatic stress makes be all the more skeptical.

I believed Cheryl in this regard. She only knocked on his door when the light was on. When it was off, she had no reason to knock on his door, because she knew he would either be a) gone, or b) asleep. There wouldn't have been any reason for her to knock on the door under either of those 2 circumstances, (unless there was some type of emergency that warranted waking him up).

[Corky Kneivel]

I am sending a copy of the extended version to Crystaldawn, I was going to have it out by now, but a bout of laryngitis kept me bedridden for a few days. She may put it on vol 13, or at least the clip of the second death threat.

Does it mention anything about the ownership of the gun?
Where Tony fired his gun into his head?
Any professional bullet trajectory theory?




I have never heard anyone committing suicide over a DUI. I've known alot of people that have obtained them and some of them were arrested for it, and while getting one is certainly a fly in the ointment, none of them were even remotely close to committing suicide. I have never heard of any case in the news saying that someone committed suicide over a DUI.

You know what? I've never heard a news story like that either. And I'm happy ofr you that the poeple you've known who've received DUIs were in such a good place that they didn't think to commit suicide. However, I've known of two people who comitted suicide, in their mom's house by the way, and they had received DUIs. However, at no time ever in both of those cases did I ever hear anyone say "XXX had gotten a DUI...and THAT'S why he killed himself!" We understood that these people were deeply depressed individuals who didn't kill themselves because of a single event, rather a lifetime of perceived flaws and foul-ups culminating in a choice not to go on.

Because as I tried to make abundantly clear...the DUI is just the final big occurence to make these people choose not going on any longer. In one of the above suicides I knew of, in which he hung himself under his mother's stair case, he received his DUI like 3 years before he killed himself. He was always depressed, always unhappy and uncomfortable, and his DUI was one of those things he pointed to as how he had "****ed up" his chances. But like I said, none of us said it was the DUI that did it, the news didn't say that a young man killed himself over a DUI, because it doesn't work like that.

I guess I'll say it once more...I AM NOT SAYING HE KILLED HIMSELF JUST BECAUSE HE GOT A DUI. I'm saying that his low estimation of himself and his depression made him kill himself. The DUI just one more clue for himself as to how worthless he was. As was the dead-end job. As was him living at home at his age. As was his impending legal troubles. As was his feelings that people were out to get him and he couldn't handle it. None of which I think people of sound reasoning kill themselves over. But in my interpretation Tony hadn't been thinking like that for a while and all of the known elements, and probably a ton we'll never know, created a sort of "perfect storm" for suicide.


If Tony being without a car is the case, I'm sure he had several people that were willing to drive him.

Well fantastic. He should have just called you if he was worried about it. I'm being flippant of course, and please excuse me, but the point you're missing throughout wiseguy182, is that it doesn't matter what you think his options could have been...Tony was in a state of depression that caused him to see minor setbacks as insurmountable problems. Everyday "crap happens" occurences, like a watch breaking or a driver going nuts and threatening us, appeared to him as repetitious proof that his life sucked and the bigger problematic occurences, like the loss of independence a car represents, was proof that it would never get any better.

This is all conjecture and I don't intend to impune Tony's life at all, I'm just saying that in my opinion this was how he saw himself and saw his life and he was unhappy enough with it to kill himself.



Regarding the door noise, Tony's mom never states that she specifically knew what it was, if I recall correctly. She heard a noise (that could have been anything) but that she heard a noise made her believe that her son was home. It doesn't matter what the noise was, hearing a noise period tells her her son was home. So she investigates. She later tells police she doesn't know what the noise was, which makes sense because she really doesn't know what it was.

No, you've got it incorrect. She states specifically in the UM interview that she heard a door noise. You also have the time line incorrect. At FIRST she cannot specify what the sound was, even when the question "was it a door noise?" is put to her. Then LATER, after she has decided her son was murdered, the noise THEN BECOMES a "door noise" which must have been the killers escaping. As I contend earlier in this thread, the family are the ones who come to a conclusion then fit the official record to the conclusion.


As far as them not being afraid of killing Tony, but not wanting to run afould of a middle aged woman, the killer(s) might not have even been aware of the other occupants of the house.

Then why hang around for several hours in the dark?


Regading whose gun it was, I don't believe the killers came unarmed. However, one possibility is that they bring their own gun, yet use the gun in the house to make it more look like suicide.

Yeah I examined that scenario in my post. Its not impossible, in fact its the best explanation for getting control of a 22 year old man without a struggle, but it doesn't hold water if you examine it.
The killer forces Tony to shoot himself? I think anyone with a gun trained on them being told to take another gun and shoot themself would do the same thing I would...you'd shoot at the person with the gun.
The killer has a gun trained on Tony, forces him to go get another gun, switches guns, and then holds down Tony and uses the 2nd gun to make it look like a suicide. This killer planned all this, along with a 12 hour clean-up time, yet won't confront the mom and order her around with a gun? Also you have to acknowledge that this criminal mastermind seriously blew it by how he staged the body. He thinks of everything down to cleaning up any foensic evidence yet completely screws up the bullet trajectory?

You have to try too hard to make this a murder, you guys. Why can't you see that?


Regarding the naked thing, even though Tony probably wouldn't have cared much if he committed suicide, but he would have known his mother would have discovered him like that, and I can't imagine anyone wanting to be discovered nude by their mother under any circumstances.

So dead is cool, but naked is a no-no??!? CrystalDawn said the same thing, and if that's what you guys are going with as proof that it can't be suicide...I can't say anything to that.

Wait...yes I can...so if it can't be a suicide because its just too bizarre for someone to kill themselves in the nude; THEN I SAY it can't be a murder because its just too bizarre for someone to plan to dress a murder up as a suicide, hang around with the dead body for at least 10 hours, and then be scared to confront a middle-aged woman all alone in a house.

There.


You are correct in that the bruises/broken jaw don't necessarily mean that it happened during his death. However, if it happened the previous night during a fight like you suggested, it's not something that can easily be hidden. Tony would have a hard time not occasionally wincing in pain with those he came in contact with the morning and afternoon of the day of his death.

Unless it happened at 2am at a bar, for instance. Tony comes home and sleeps. His mom, knowing Tony works the swing shift at the baby food cannery, lets him sleep and doesn't interrupt him. Judging by the description of her activity and the activity she expected of Tony, they probably would only see each other at night.

There's no reason anyone would have had to see him in between the fight and the suicide.


Regarding the bullet trajectory, the bullet was found low on his headboard of his bead. he was found with the pillows covering the hole and his head above the pillows. This means that the bullet was lower than how he was found. Additionally, most people committing suicide by gun do it from by placing a gun to one side of the head, and the bullet exits the other side. This way, he would have had to do it by placing the bullet at his forehead, and it exiting the back of his head: possible, but unlikely.

or fired up under his chin in his elevated state, the bullet ricochets and then takes a downward trajectory into the headboard or into another bone it riochets off of...I just can't go with bullet trajectory theory as provided by a mom with a pencil.



Regarding the light on/off thing. You yourself stated that Tony had been dead for several hours. So how does his light get on? With the light being off, Tony's mom knew that he was either asleep or not there, so she wouldn't have had any reason to knock on the door in either instance. When the light comes on, she figures that he is both present and awake, and subsequently knocks on the door, which makes sense. The light switching on indicates another person was present.

I already stated I don't think the light went from off to on. I think the light was always on, I just think Tony's mom is unreliable. If I ever talk about the light being off, its me discussing one of the implausible murder scenarios in which a murderer either hangs around and cleans up immaculately, yet for some reason forces himself to do it in the dark.
-----ORRRRR-----
The killer hangs around for hours, cleans up with the lights on and then sees Cheryl come home and turns out the light. But if you go with that scenario, it demolishes your "killer was unaware of other people in the house" theory and again forces an explanation of why this dastardly villian, a criminal cunning the likes of Professor Moriarty, then becomes afraid of the mommy of the guy he killed.

[ididn'tdoit]

I was always totally convinced Tony was murdered, but Corky brings up some interesting points in his posts so now I'm not sure whether it was a murder or a suicide... :confused:

I'm going to watch it again before I make up my mind though :lol:

[peachysquirt21]

There is also no evidence that Tony was depressed or hated his job. Unless I missed something in the segment.

I cannot remember but wasn't there something about a baseball bat that was in Tony's room?

[ididn'tdoit]

I would like to know how the police explained how the bullethole in the bed could be so much lower than where his head was positioned on the pillows, to my knowledge they didn't explain that in the segment.

And how did the police explain the bruises? I think it's possible he was in a fight earlier and that he didn't want his mom to know and never told her.

One other thing, if someone did sneak through his window, I find it extremely hard to believe his mother didn't notice anything else other than that thump - if there was in fact a struggle in his bedroom (where he possibly could have got his bruises from) you would think his parents would've heard that.

[peachysquirt21]

I believe the struggle took place before his mom came home & he was dead before she came home.

[crystaldawn]

Thanks you. Okay, Cee to the Dee...speak to some of the points I brought out if you would.
You stated you discount her version of the timeline and the lights...what do you mean by that exactly?
How credible is the mom? Credible on some things but nt others?
Do you think the murderer came there to kill or not to kill?
Did he walk or drive?
Did he come there with or without a gun?
How did the killer get in?
Was it the killer's intention to make the murder look like a suicide?
Why did he hang around for several hours before the mom got home?
Why was he afraid of leaving when she was there?
Why leave the gun?
Why turn the lights on when he left after making such an effort to go undetected for approx. 12 hours or so?
If he found Tony in bed with his girl how did she get there?
How did she leave?
Why didn't the investigators mention that they know Tony was having sex shortly before he died?
Do you think they tried to track down whoever was in bed with him that day? Stands to reason that they could either eliminate or match DNA from prospective paramours (with their consent of course).
Did the cops talk to neighbors to see if they saw any cars or people in and out of the house that day?
Did the cops do an inept job?
Do you believe Tony's mom's first version of the noise or the current version of the noise?
Do you believe Tony's friend was contacted by the police?

Well bear in mind I haven't watched this segment in a while but here are some answers/opinions/theories on the questions:

By the timeline I just meant that the mother could have been mistaken about the light being on. She was busy doing housework and had no reason at the time to pay much attention to the light in his room. Then after the fact she was no doubt in shock by finding her son's body so she could have remembered the facts wrong.
Well I don't think its a question of "credible" about the mom. She did what any of us parents would do thats child was labeled a suicide and she disagreed with, she's making the police department miserable until she gets a decent investigation in her mind. I'm not saying the police department did a lousy job (although I certainly disagree with their conclusion) but you can't really fault her for wanting answers about her son's death.
Thats a good question about the killer came to kill or not to kill. If he made a point to come to Tony's room obviously it wasn't going to be a calm discussion. The fact that there were apparently no fingerprints on the gun makes you think of something being premeditated (unless the gun was wiped clean).
I think he could have driven there. Of course if this guy had plans to kill Tony he wouldn't have wanted his car seen in his driveway. He could have even parked a few blocks away and walked.
I don't think he came with his own gun or they would have mentioned that in the segments as thats a substantial piece of evidence.
As far as how he got in, as far as we know the door could have been unlocked so he probably walked right in.
I can't imagine why he would have hung around in the room for hours thats why I think the mom could be mistaken about the light being on. Certainly the killer didn't want to be there when the parents arrived home.
If the gun belonged to the Lombardi's, why would the murderer want to take it with him? It would just link him to the crime.
Its not a fact that Tony was in bed with a girl at the time of the murder, just a possible theory. If some jealous boyfriend did come in and kill him the girl probably left with him and is too scared to say anything for fear of what the boyfriend would do to her. Again just a theory.
Offhand I don't think the cops did a bad job. I think they probably at first glance thought Tony had committed suicide (which would be a simpler scenario for them). They claimed they interviewed all these people including the guy who threatened his life and they all deny having anything to do with his death. Duh!! Of course they're going to deny it, thats why they should have done more investigating and confirmed his alibi (which hopefully they did). I can't imagine Tony's friend would lie about not being contacted as thats something that would be easy enough for the cops to disprove so if they didn't contact and interview his best friend that would certainly be shoddy policework.

This has been a good discussion and I hope it doesn't take a bad turn. Truthfully I doubt anyone's mind was changed, they still feel the same about the case as they did before they read this thread but at least both sides have gotten a chance to present their opinions.

[wiseguy182]

I am sending a copy of the extended version to Crystaldawn, I was going to have it out by now, but a bout of laryngitis kept me bedridden for a few days. She may put it on vol 13, or at least the clip of the second death threat.

I should mention that I recently realized that my copy came from Space Invaderz, so I should give him most of the credit.

[Thiussat]

I have posted about this case before, but have just now discovered this thread after quite a long absence from these forums. I am interested in what Corky is saying and I think he/she is pretty much dead on. As I have stated in other threads, this Lombardi case is very similar to the Tommy Burkett case, both of which I think were suicides.

Now on to Corky:

The murder scenario, as described by Tony’s mom, states that the murderer was inside Tony’s room when his mom got home and indeed stayed in there for several hours, with the lights off, before leaving while mom was in her bedroom. She comes back out of her room and noticing that Tony’s bedroom light is now on, enters his room to discover him deceased. I have a problem with this recounting because I don’t feel the mom is credible. In her UM interview, and the way the recreation is presented, she hears a specific door noise which prompts her to come out to the hall. However, as the police officer interviewed in the segment reveals, in her original statement, while all the events are fresh in her mind, she couldn’t say what the noise was. When asked, “Was it a regular house noise” and given specific choices, one of which was a door being shut, she states “I don’t know what it was”. I find this inconsistency troubling and I think it discredits her later insistence that she specifically heard a door being shut, presumably the killers leaving, which leads her to find Tony. Extrapolating from that, coupled with the officer’s revelation that she needed time to calm down and make her statement, I don’t count her story of the lights going from off to on as being credible either. Not only because I find her to be is lacking in credit, to me the whole situation HIGHLY unlikely.

Bingo!

The mother's scenario doesn't add up. The killer would have had to be one sly and experienced killer to pull off the scenario the mom indicates. As with the Burkett case, why would the supposed killer pick Lombardi's home in order to off him, especially when his parents live there?

Remember what Robert Stack says is the one thing everyone agrees on, that Tony was dead long before his mom ever came home at midnight. So a killer comes to the house, murders Tony, and then hangs around for several hours, in the dark, until someone else comes home? Then the killer decides to hang around even longer, all the while in possession of a working and fully loaded gun, already having overpowered and murdered a 22 year old man, and is afraid to come out and leave while a middle aged woman is alone in the house doing laundry?

Another bingo. None of the murder theorists can explain the gap in time, nor why the killer hangs around the house for so long after the deed was done.

** - I think the gun belonged to the Lombardis. Its never stated in the UM segment but if it wasn’t somehow connected to the family I think the family would point to a strange gun being found at the scene as proof positive of a murder. I also think if it wasn’t traceable to the Lombardi family the police would have explained in the segment that they investigated and surmised Tony copped a gun in secret. The fact that it’s never mentioned leads me to believe the gun belonged in that house.

3rd Bingo.

In order for the murder scenario to be plausible, the killer would had to have very intimate knowledge of Tony's home and where his gun was stored. If the killer did indeed have such info, he would surely have known that Tony's parents also live there and his chances for success were not that great. Further, if such an individual did exist, certainly the parents would know him since he must have spent a lot of time in Tony's house in the weeks/months/years prior to the murder.

I would counter by saying that those are some serious wounds to sustain while there is absolutely NO evidence of a fight occurring. No kicked over chairs, no scraped knuckles on Tony, no fibers or hairs or blood or anything from the killer.

Bingo again.

I would like to add that not only was there no physical evidence indicating anyone else was in that room, but in order for us to accept the murder hypothesis, one must also accept that the murderer somehow got into perfect position next to Tony in order to fire the shot from Tony's own gun at a near perfect trajectory in order to produce a suicide scenario. All the while Tony just lays there naked allowing this to take place. Sure, one could argue that the killer knocked Tony out, thus incapacitating him so that he could arrange the staged crime scene, but as far as I have seen, the coroner has never indicated any such head wounds which would have obviously resulted from such a blow. All there was on Tony's body were very superficial bruises etc., which any medical examiner will tell you nearly all humans will exhibit if they are examined closely after death. In, fact I heard Cyril Wecht state this very fact recently when he was discussing the Stacy Peterson case (though I do think Drew is guilty of two murders).

A very bright and funny individual suggests that this was a “crime of passion”. I’m assuming that she means to suggest a scenario in which the killer came to the house, found Tony and a woman romantically engaged, and then murdered Tony in a fit of rage. This scenario doesn’t make sense to me because how many crimes of passion, fit of rage, type murders end with only a single bullet being fired? This scenario demands that a single bullet is fired after NO physical confrontation and in the all-too-common-UM-explanation “murder made to look like suicide” criminal-master-mind motif by someone who was apparently killing in the heat of the moment.

Exactly. Such a motive is definitely implausible for a number of reasons.

First, I have no idea how Tony's parents ran their household, but I do know that even if I was a 22 year old adult living at home, my parents would not have approved of me banging a chick in their house. As a result, I would likely carry my sexual escapades elsewhere (like my GF's apartment or a back seat of a car). I know this argument alone is not the strongest since some parents are more liberal than others, but most people wouldn't conduct themselves at home like this, especially since Tony had to know his mom would be home in short order.

Admittedly, there is the possibility that Tony thought he and his GF had time to do the deed before anyone arrived home, but even if this is the case, I find it hard to believe that a jealous man would enter the house and carry out such an elaborate murder without regard for who else might be there. It's a pretty brazen act to carry out in someone's parent's house. I realize there are people out there who would have the insanity level required to attempt such a murder, but it would have been so sloppy that we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

IF this was a murder (and that's a big if), I definitely don't see it being the work of another early 20's jealous boyfriend. The only scenario where this would be plausible is if this jealous BF hired Mr. Brooks (Kevin Costner's character in the movie) to pull off a professional hit. Only someone with as much murder experience as Mr. Brooks would have enough guile to stay in the room for hours and attempt an escape when someone is alive in the next room.

To further compound the incredulity factor, if it was indeed a crime of passion, then who is this woman Tony was sleeping with and where is she? Certainly she would suspect that the murder was carried out by a former lover. Did the killer sit outside in a car watching and waiting for them to finish their sexual act and allow the woman to leave before he entered to kill Tony? It's possible, but still the girlfriend should have suspected something after Tony turned up dead, yet no such woman has ever came forward to my knowledge.

It's true that such a crime of passion scenario might explain Tony's nudity, but there are so many flaws in the theory (mainly that this case has no hallmarks of a crime of passion) that it must be dismissed in my view.

[Thiussat]

Let me also add something in regard to Tony's bruises and other injuries. I just now saw where he had a broken jaw, as I had forgotten that. I find it likely that he perhaps was engaged in a fight with another guy at some point before his suicide, just as Corky suggests. This is far more of a simple explanation than the elaborate theory of a criminal mastermind sneaking into his house and killing him without leaving a trace of evidence, hair, blood, or signs of a struggle behind.

[Thiussat]

I just watched the Burkett segment and HE was the one with the broken jaw, not Lombardi as someone else in this thread said. Or did they both have broken jaws?

[wiseguy182]

Lombardi had a broken jaw.

[Thiussat]

Lombardi had a broken jaw.

Interesting. I thought I had the Lombardi case stored on my TIVO from a year or two ago but I don't. I am in the process of transferring them all to DVD so I can get them off my TIVO. This is why I watched the Burkett case again. After watching it, I found even more flaws in the story of the parents, which I wont go into in this thread. I might start a new thread about it.

[peachysquirt21]

what is with all this loser at 22 stuff? ok so he had a crap job, hardly atypical for someone that age. He seemed to pretty happy/popular, which makes the suicide angle harder to believe.

Exactly... There is no evidence that I know of anyway that Tony hated his job. The guy was still young & had plenty of time to get a better job if he had chosen too.

As far as Tony getting into a fight the day/night before his death, I find that to be a bit of a stretch.

[hostedbyrobertstack]

This case is a sad one, for the family and for him being so young. He looked a lot older than 22 in the pictures. I do not believe he was unhappy. I am around this age and it is a tough time, not everyone is doing what they want, but not everyone is really unhappy (like high school). I believe it was suicide. Anyways, I live about an hour from columbus (which westerville is a suburb of) and have been there a few times. I go up to columbus a lot to visit my sister, and it would be nice to drive around the area. It is a very nice more upper class area, and I would like to know where this happened just to see it.

[wiseguy182]

i wonder what Tony's plans were, college or otherwise. might be helpful in understanding this case more.

[Corky Kneivel]

Finally somebody who agrees with me!! (your $100 payoff is coming in the mail shortly)

You and I are pretty much on the same path when it comes to our interpretation of the known facts and evidence, as well as the implausibility of that evidence coming together in a murder.


I have posted about this case before...

I'd be interested in reading what you wrote in those posts. I did a search but was pressed for time and I may have missed it. In any of those threads did people come up with any murder theories that sounded convincing to you at all?

Were you like me in that you were convinced that this was strictly a suicide, with no nefarious interlopers, from the get-go? Or did you come around to this conclusion after having discussions about the case?


As I have stated in other threads, this Lombardi case is very similar to the Tommy Burkett case, both of which I think were suicides.

Its funny you bring that case up, as I immediately came to the conclusion that too was obviously a suicide. I have since changed my position on Tommy Burkett and lean more to the murder scenario.

Now on to Corky

Who is a man, btw.


...any medical examiner will tell you nearly all humans will exhibit if they are examined closely after death. In, fact I heard Cyril Wecht state this very fact recently...

Wow! That's something else I'd be interested in reading about.

[kamy]

There is NO way that Tommy Burkett could have shot him self and remained in an upright position AND continued holding the gun as the UM recreation depicted. Unless this is a mistake on their part, it's not possible. I've researched and read enough to know that. Ridiculous on the killer's part to not have set the scene up better, then maybe suicide would have been a more believable cause of death.

[kadrmas15]

I agree Kamy, not only that, but that Fairfax County, Police mouthpiece (spokesman) struggled to keep a straight face during his interview. He struggled to keep a straight face, he appeared nervous, his eye contact wasnt the best, he just basically made little effort to hide the fact he was lying and just repeating the same line of bunk that his bosses told him to repeat after presumably the Drug Enforcement Administration came knocking on the Fairfax County police chief's door and told him to stay out of the Burkett case and to write it off as a suicide.

It was just obvious the gun was planted, heck the gun wasnt even in working order! If people want to argue about Lombardi and some of these other ones fine, but in my opinion Burkett's "suicide" isnt a suicide, it is an obvious murder, it just isnt even in .01 percent doubt for me that it was a murder, anyone with a functioning cerebellum could tell the same I would think. It sort of reminds me of Danny Williams who was also sitting up in his couch holding the gun in a similiar way right in his lap, it was just an obvious plant.

[peachysquirt21]

You and I are pretty much on the same path when it comes to our interpretation of the known facts and evidence, as well as the implausibility of that evidence coming together in a murder.

The known facts don't support a suicide. They support more of foul play was involved.

[Corky Kneivel]

The known facts don't support a suicide. They support more of foul play was involved.


Nuh-UHHH!!!!

[peachysquirt21]

There is no evidence to support a reason for him to commit suicide. There is no evidence that he was depressed, no evidence that he hated his job. There is no reason given that is plausable for him to commit suicde.

The possible theories given here to even support a suicide IMO are way to weak. Just like that ridiculous reason the cops gave for Tony to commit sucide. That is the most asinine thing I have ever heard & they should bow there heads in shame for even coming up with that theory let alone the poor job they did on this case.

I just don't know how anyone can ignore that this guy had at least 2 death threats against him & then ends up dead. Come on, that is no coicindence.

To each is own tho...

[GaryJ06]

i agree..they probably would have never taken the case. Despite being moved towards suicide at one point, I still can't shake the bullet trajectory aspect.
I am also by no means a member of the tinfoil hat alliance, but Burkett's "suicide" was about as shady as Vince Foster's (funny how many government officials raided his office through a police seal, and how some went in and took files etc BEFORE they found his body. I also love how some of his personal files were found in the private residence of the white house with only one person's prints on them...i'll leave speculation at that)

[peachysquirt21]

i agree..they probably would have never taken the case. Despite being moved towards suicide at one point, I still can't shake the bullet trajectory aspect.
I am also by no means a member of the tinfoil hat alliance, but Burkett's "suicide" was about as shady as Vince Foster's (funny how many government officials raided his office through a police seal, and how some went in and took files etc BEFORE they found his body. I also love how some of his personal files were found in the private residence of the white house with only one person's prints on them...i'll leave speculation at that)

I had done some major reading on the Vince Foster case & don't know how they can claim he committed suicide. I was surprised to read what all took place with that case & for certain ones to still claim he committed sucide.

[GaryJ06]

i know, it does seem very shady, like I wonder what he really knew and if it was enough to get him killed

[kamy]

I had done some major reading on the Vince Foster case & don't know how they can claim he committed suicide. I was surprised to read what all took place with that case & for certain ones to still claim he committed sucide.

I posted about this a while back, talking about the Foster/Burkett murder/suicide (whatever you wish to call it) and didn't get much of a response on it, (except Corky and Dark Dante) so it's nice to see people are taking an interest in it now.

Here's a link to the old thread....it also discusses the boys on the track murder.....

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=3671482#post3671482


LE must really think the public is stupid enough to buy a suicide verdict when most if not all the facts point to another theory. You'd think they would try to do a better job covering their tracks.....

[Corky Kneivel]

I'm real sure Unsolved Mysteries would chose to air the Burkett and Lombardi cases if they were 100%, definitely, positively, blatantly obvious suicides. UM would be considered a joke show, and wouldn't have lasted a year in that case.

Yeah...it definitely would tarnish the reputation of the show that aired such high brow intellectual offerings such as:

The Death Chair
The Good Luck Rock
Fertility Statues
Skunk Ape

I mean a television show titled UNSOLVED MYSTERIES, wouldn't benefit AT ALL from taking a solved case and presenting it to look much more...oh I don't know...MYSTERIOUS. Would it? And as much as you want to repeat the words bullet trajectory bullet trajectory bullet trajectory, you have no professionals stating that the bullet trajectory is explainable and that this is anything but a solved case.


I stopped replying to you because it seems like for some reason you're getting all emotional just because we disagree on this thing. You've been in a bunch since before I even went into any long explanation of my opinions, back when I had said in a couple of different replies in a couple of different threads that I strongly disagreed with the opinions that thjis was a murder and that I would be soon replying. Remember back when you "personally challenged" me to prove you wrong? WTH? Since then your replies have been filled with snide comments and smilies rolling their eyes. I've never criticized any of you for the opinions you hold, or how much we disagree, I just gave reasons why I thought those opinions weren't plausible.



Not only that wiseguy182, I kinda got tired of retyping the same things over and over again just so you could ignore, misconstrue, and misinterpret them. I can't tell if you're doing it on purpose or not, but it just gets repetitious when I say something and then in your very next reply you make statements as if I've never addressed that topic.

The one thing that has gotten me bothered in this whole thing, and why I chose to reply, is your repeated insistence, along with peachysquirt21's, about my comments regarding Tony's emotional state. I stated, at least twice, that this was purely MY OPINION, that it was all conjecture, and I know I said at least once that I NEVER MEANT TO IMPUNE THE MAN'S LIFE. Yet you two are continually going back to this and misconstrucing my statements.

R.I.F.

I stated that these were my opinions and I would assume that logically that means I'm basing my theories on those opinions. Yet here comes wiseguy182 to give another smartass reply about how he loves how I'm stating my opinions as facts. I mean what does that even mean!??! Should I state my opinions and then set up theories contradicting them? I mean I only said it in plain English that I understood this was all pure conjecture.

What's more, you couldn't even get it straight what I said about the Tommy Burkett case!! Do you actually read the posts or just choose to remember the parts you want to disagree with?

[Corky Kneivel]

Your comment that Lombardi was worthless because he was 22 and living at home and had a crap job is extremely offensive.



This is exactly what I'm talking about right here. If you need to deliberately change what I say just so you can argue with me then your argument isn't valid in the first place.

Real slow…for you wiseguy182…once more…
I even said that this wasn’t MY opinion of the guy, but in MY OPINION it was the way HE felt about himself!!

[crystaldawn]

Okay enough with the bickering. You guys need to agree to disagree and move on.

[Corky Kneivel]

Okay enough with the bickering. You guys need to agree to disagree and move on.


**KICKS CARPET**

Aww gee whiz, mom! HE started it!!

[LooksLikeCRicci]

*sigh* Do I have to put my mediator hat on and start charging you two $150 an hour to settle these issues?

:D

[kadrmas15]

Wow, well, I disagreed with Corky's opinion, but I do not think Corky was saying that Lombardi or that he was somehow a worthless human being and therefore should have killed himself. Heck, I am 23 years old, a part-time college student, unemployed, and havent yet accomplished what I want to in life, and have a drunk driving arrest, I would certainly hope Corky doesnt think anyone in this type of situation should wind up with a bullet in them? Corky, I am kidding, I know you dont think Lombardi deserved to die. Also, CRicci, thanks for the PM, I will respond to it sometime later today.

[Corky Kneivel]

I watched this segment again the other night, this time with all the extended, special, un-rated, "director's cut" bonus footage - (thanks Crystaldawn and wiseguy182) - and to me this is still so obviously a suicide.

I'd be interested in seeing how the board swings...was it suicide? Or murrrdeeerrrrrrr (said all creepily and eery)

[crystaldawn]

I watched this segment again the other night, this time with all the extended, special, un-rated, "director's cut" bonus footage - (thanks Crystaldawn and wiseguy182) - and to me this is still so obviously a suicide.

I'd be interested in seeing how the board swings...was it suicide? Or murrrdeeerrrrrrr (said all creepily and eery)

I definitely think he was murdered.

[Pixies]

I think it was suicide. :(

[Corky Kneivel]

I definitely think he was murdered.

I know YOU do, cee to the dee, you wily rascal you, you think it was a "catching lovers in bed/crime of passion" type thing right?

Hey! You write to all kinds of police departments and people featured on UM don't you?

I just got a wacky idea!!

How about you, or me, or us together, or you, or you again writes to the investigative authorities on this one and axe them if they ever figured out who the gun belonged to or if they figured out if Tony ever left his house that day. Those, for me, are thje two biggest unknowns that would maybe cause me to look at this case in a new way. I think the threatening phone calls and crazy driver guy are red herrings but if the coppers were to write us back and say those people are still "of interest" then that too would lend credence to the other side of the debate.

**jumps around**

Huh? Wanna do that? Huh? We're pals, ain't we spike huh? We're pals, ain't we??!??

[synthisislab]

Corky, your new avatar is representing the jackass way that you are acting now quite perfectly.

Speaking of jackasses, who is your new avatar of, crystaldawn?

[crystaldawn]

Speaking of jackasses, who is your new avatar of, crystaldawn?

Care to venture a guess? He's aged a bunch now but he was profiled on UM so maybe looking at his face he'll look familiar. If not I'll clue you in.

[Corky Kneivel]

[QUOTE=synthisislab]Corky, your new avatar is representing the jackass way that you are acting now quite perfectly.
[QUOTE]


Haroo?!? What'd I do now?

And Billy Mitchell is an American Hero!! He wears America ties fer cryin' out loud!!

[mphs95]

This case was on UM yesterday. 22 year old Tony Lombardi Jr was found dead in his bedroom by his mother in August of 1990. The police of course came over and instantly ruled it suicide. The police said the reason why he killed himself was because he was depressed over getting arrested for drunk driving two days earlier and having his corvette impounded. Let me tell you, I have been arrested for drunk driving myself once, and it does stink it is embarassing and it makes you feel stupid. BUT I would certainly never kill myself over something like that and I cant imagine anyone else that would.

There was so much to this case that tells me it wasnt suicide. This young man had no obvious signs of depression, he was popular with many people, especially the ladies and had a couple of women he was seeing at the time of his death. Tony was found naked in his room. His mother said that Tony was the type that he wouldnt sleep naked. She also said his head was on top of two pillows and that the bullethole was in the headboard in a place that was below the pills. There were obvious defensive wounds on Tony's knuckles and he also had a gash on his chest I think. It was obvious that at least one person had been holding him down forcibly. Where the gun landed was questionable as well. The cops said that he killed himself also because he had traces of metal on his hands. Yet Tony worked in a factory where he constantly handled metal cans.

The creepy thing was when Tony's mom came home and saw his light off with the door closed. She actually went about the house and did her nightly chores and she actually went into her bedroom and shut the door and was laying in bed reading or something right before she was going to go to bed. She then heard the door open and close and she heard footsteps. She assumed it was Tony coming home. She got up and went out into the hallway and saw his door closed but the light was now on. She knocked on the door a couple of times opened it and went in the room and what a sight she saw. She called the cops and I think they estimated Tony had been dead for at least 5 hours. That is scary to think that the footsteps Tony's mom heard was his killer. Why the killer was hanging out in Tony's room for hours after the murder is what I dont understand.

I think the killer was the boyfriend of one of Tony's girlfriends. Remember one of Tony's girlfriends was with another man at the same time she was seeing Tony and this man did not like her seeing another man. Tony tried to mediate the situation and this man had told Tony's friend "Tony is going to get what is coming to him." That doesnt look good and I am surprised the cops never investigated it. I know Tony's friend said the cops never interviewed him, never even attempted to contact him. This seems like another example of shotty police work. A case where the cops instantly decide it is suicide and basically either dont have the manpower or just dont want to investigate and spend all the time on it so they just label it suicide to make it easy. Kind of reminds me of the Danny Williams case in terms of the cops labeling an obvious murder, suicide.

Suicide my foot! Who in the world would get naked and shoot themselves over a DUI? Whatever.

The cops either didn't have the manpower, decided suicide was easier to deal with, or worst case scenario, the killer(s) have an inside track w/ the locals and got a get out of jail free card from them regarding the investigation. If he was naked, there is a possibility he was with someone in the room, doing what comes naturally. Probably the bf got in the house, found them together, then him, possibly with someone else, shot him dead. If a woman was there, she was probably scared s***less.

[mphs95]

This is OT, but CD, who's on your avatar this time? I know the face but can't place the case.

[mphs95]

You keep pointing to the bullet trajectory as evidence. The bullet trajectory theory as provided by…who? That esteemed forensic analyst Dr. Cheryl Lombardi? The lady who said if “[she] doesn’t exceed in proving her son was murdered in this life, she’ll do it from eternity”? Well, I certainly understand why you’d throw in with her…I mean she’s obviously an unbiased and impartial authority with several years training in ballistics. I’ll even admit to this, make of what you will: I don’t understand what she’s saying about the pillows and the bullet. I’ve watched the segment about a half dozen times and I still don’t see how this is proof he was being held down and shot. Maybe you can use that as proof I’m too stupid to get it, or maybe you can explain it to me better.


More importantly though, I'm curious as to how "a boatload of bruises on his chest, a broken jaw, a broken watch on the floor" automatically mean that he was murdered? Those things prove murder about as much as a guy receiving a death threat in the weeks prior to his death. Uh…whoops. That’s another of the “rock solid” cornerstones of the murder theory.


Well I got a little theory, like to hear it?


Tony Lombardi was a depressed young man who was very unhappy with his life. In his eyes he worked a dead end factory job filling up cans of baby food, was prematurely balding, still lived with his mom and the baby food job wasn’t going to put enough cash in his pockets for his own place, and in recent weeks had a couple of altercations in which he needed his dad and his best friend to intercede and stick up for him. Here was a guy who felt emasculated, trapped, and absolutely terrified that life was going to get no better than this. Then, on top of all that, he gets arrested for a DUI. Not only does he lose his car, his last vestige of freedom, he now has a record and impending legal troubles.


ATTENTION: I know all of this, especially the DUI part, would not be enough to make any of us, or any other rational and sound-thinking individuals commit suicide. I know this. However in this scenario, which makes sense enough to the investigating authorities, we aren't dealing with someone who was thinking rationally. In this scenario, Tony had already broken with the basic human instinct for self preservation. Please do not dismiss a theory as to why someone would commit suicide with the deliberately misleading or incredibly naïve comment "nobody would kill themselves over a DUI". The DUI is just the excuse, the final bit of proof to the suicide that their life is worthless and they are better off dead.


And you know what?! Maybe the DUI WASN’T the straw that broke the camel’s back in this situation. Perhaps Tony did have a confrontation the night before with the guy threatening Tony’s life. Tony, full of self loathing and humiliated that he can’t fight his own fights and has his dad and friend step in for him, has a confrontation with this guy that leads to fisticuffs. Tony then gets his jaw broken in the fight, sustains bruises, and perhaps gets his watch broken holding his hands up trying to protect his face. He goes home and sleeps. He wakes up in the morning finally a broken and defeated young man. He cannot stand the humiliation, the pain from his jaw, nor the thought of going on any longer.
-----ORRRRRR-----
He has no altercation with the guy, yet still wakes up that morning feeling worse than the day before and not able to bear it getting much worse. He gets the family gun and lays in bed suffering an almost incomprehensibly tortuous depression in which he considers his life over and he considers himself worthless. He holds the gun and hits himself with it, punishing himself for being weak or for whatever he perceives as his flaws. He breaks his watch to signify the time of death for his family, holds his gun (where? Did they ever say the path the bullet traveled through Tony?) to his head and…it is over. The lights are on in his room. The gun is on the body where it has come to rest after the shot. Several hours later Tony’s mom hears the gun drop from the body to the floor and goes to investigate.


Without question I got some of the events wrong in my little scenario. Maybe Tony held the gun to his head with one hand while punching himself in the chest with other trying to get up the nerve to do the deed. Maybe Tony broke his jaw when his body jerked during the shot. Maybe he broke his watch the night before in an accident on the can line and THAT was the final straw. Maybe the gun hit the floor as soon as he shot himself. I’m just supposing with these theories. But these suppositions of events, or supposition of events similar, in my opinion tell the true story behind the tangible evidence; infinitely more plausibly than any murder theory does.

Corky, you're entitled to your opinions, but you need to get off the "woe is me" high horse and take a chill pill. This is a posting board where people post their OPINIONS. Just because someone disagrees does not make it wrong. You're entitied to your theories as much as kadramas is. I think we're getting away from the goal of this site, which I thought was to have thought provoking converations regarding several cases and throw ideas off of each other.

Before this becomes a raging P contest, lets get back to the topic at hand. Tony Lombardi....suicide or murder. Me, I say murder, but if someone disagrees, let's hear why, not a name calling competition.

[mphs95]

CD, is your avatar "Rusty", the nudist camp dude who tried to molest a young girl and ripped off the residents w/ a stolen video inventory?

[Corky Kneivel]

Corky, you're entitled to your opinions, but you need to get off the "woe is me" high horse and take a chill pill. This is a posting board where people post their OPINIONS. Just because someone disagrees does not make it wrong. You're entitied to your theories as much as kadramas is. I think we're getting away from the goal of this site, which I thought was to have thought provoking converations regarding several cases and throw ideas off of each other.

Before this becomes a raging P contest, lets get back to the topic at hand. Tony Lombardi....suicide or murder. Me, I say murder, but if someone disagrees, let's hear why, not a name calling competition.


I really do not understand this reply.

First off, this was all written a long while ago.
Where did I call people names?
Where do I come across as "woe is me"?

The snarky back and forth I had with wiseguy182 was the only thing I got upset about in this post and I avoided it for as long as I could until I felt like I had to write something. I got it off my chest, he got it off his. I have no hard feelings towards the guy, I appreciate his contributions to this post and the many many others he offers his thoughtful and educated opinions on. I went overboard in this post with antagonizing him and for that I was wrong. I should have stayed on the topic.

Speaking of which...off course everyone's titled to their own opinion, as I am entitled to mine, and my opinion is that this is OBVIOUSLY a suicide. Fine, no big deal. You said "suicide my foot!" But I'm not going to tell you you need to get off your high horse because you, as well as others, insist nobody in the world would commit suicide naked. I don't understand this argument. Its like you accept that suicide is okay, that ending your own life is an act of a rational and sound mind...buuuuuuttt, the concept of doing it naked is somehow so bizarre that its evidence of a staged murder.

I find it much MUCH more implausible that someone murders a man in their own bed, hangs around in the house with the body for hours and hours with the lights off, sticks around when someone comes home, hangs around in the dark for an hour for whatever reason not going to confront a middle aged woman with a gun after already murdering her 23 year old son, takes the chance of leaving the house without the murder weapon, turns on the lights now after carefully staging a suicide and keeping quiet enough not to let anyone know someone was in the room, leaves zero trace evidence after spending untold hours in the room with the corpse, and leaves the house leaving no discernable evidence.

[crystaldawn]

CD, is your avatar "Rusty", the nudist camp dude who tried to molest a young girl and ripped off the residents w/ a stolen video inventory?

Yes, very good! I couldn't believe how much he's aged. Looks pretty scary which is why I thought I'd put him on here....to creep you guys out. :eek: :lol:

[mphs95]

Yes, very good! I couldn't believe how much he's aged. Looks pretty scary which is why I thought I'd put him on here....to creep you guys out. :eek: :lol:

I was thinking Freddy Krueger for a second before being torched! LOL

[peachysquirt21]

Was Tony from Ohio? I cannot rember but if he was, I believe his grandmother died in June.

Mary Ellen Lombardi
LOMBARDI Mary Ellen Lombardi, age 86, June 7, 2008 at OSU East. Preceded in death by husband Anthony F. Lombardi and grandson Tony Lombardi. Survived by daughter, Mary Lou (Jerry) Axline; sons, Tony (Cheryl) Lombardi and Jimmy Lombardi; sister, Ruth Burt; grandsons, Keith Burton and Sean Burton. Friends may visit Tuesday 2-4 p.m. at the SHAW-DAVIS FUNERAL HOME CLINTONVILLE CHAPEL, 4341 N High St., where a funeral service will follow at 4 p.m. Private family interment Sunset Cemetery. Sign the online guestbook at www.dispatch.com/obituaries

Published in The Columbus Dispatch from 6/8/2008 - 6/9/2008.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Corky... your avatar CRACKS me up.

I rented "The King of Kong" not too long ago with The Boyfriend and we were howling over how funny it was. I heard they're going to make a movie out of the documentary, which upsets me because the documentary is going to be way better than any Hollywood movie. Billy Mitchell is an arrogant @$$, but he plays a mean game of Donkey Kong. :)

Oh, right. Tony Lombardi. Totally murdered.

[ididn'tdoit]

Yes, very good! I couldn't believe how much he's aged. Looks pretty scary which is why I thought I'd put him on here....to creep you guys out. :eek: :lol:

CD, lucky for us he kept his clothes on in that photo :lol:

[Corky Kneivel]

Corky... your avatar CRACKS me up.

I rented "The King of Kong" not too long ago with The Boyfriend and we were howling over how funny it was. I heard they're going to make a movie out of the documentary, which upsets me because the documentary is going to be way better than any Hollywood movie. Billy Mitchell is an arrogant @$$, but he plays a mean game of Donkey Kong. :)

Oh, right. Tony Lombardi. Totally murdered.


Don't you love when Billy Mitchell compares himself to Abortion? The man has a way with words.

Lombardi murdered? Seriously? I promise I won't be snarky if you present why you think so. As long as you don't "personally challenge" me to refute your post.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

LOL! Corky, I'm a criminal defense lawyer. I'm used to folks getting snarky with me. :)

But seriously... I think Lombardi was murdered for three reasons:
1. The trajectory of the bullet and where it lodged into his headboard suggests that someone was sitting on him at the time he was shot.
2. Lombardi's body was found with bruises that are consistent with someone kneeling on his chest.
3. Lombardi's mother saw the light on in his bedroom and then saw it off after the police figured he was already dead.... suggesting that there was a second person in the room.

A distant fourth reason would be because Lombardi was found nude. I know a bit about suicide, and people rarely kill themselves in the buff. Also, I want to say that I've read somewhere that Tony was extraordinarily modest and wouldn't even let girlfriends see him naked. This would be out of character for him.

HOWEVER... someone mentioned that no one would commit suicide over a DUI. As a defense attorney, I'm totally going to differ on that one. I know that in the grand scheme of things, a DUI is not a big deal, especially when compared to crimes like deliberate homicide. HOWEVER... that does not mean that it's not a big deal to the person who's been cited with the offense. I've sat with some clients in my office who were totally freaking out over DUI's. Were they freaking out to the point I thought they were going to kill themselves? No. Would it surprise me if I found out that someone killed themselves over a DUI? Absolutely not.

Despite that, I still think Lombardi was murdered. And, no, Corky. You don't have to refute my post. I'm down with your opinion. :D

[Corky Kneivel]

Really...a criminal defense lawyer?!? Geee you've never mentioned that before....;)


Okay so its what...3 for murdered and 2 for suicide?

And LookslikeCRicci - I like how you stated your opinion and gave reasons based on your interpretation of known facts. You didn't say things like "the police didn't feel like doing their jobs" or that they were overworked and inefficient or anything. Nor did you come up with your own rationalizations on why it couldn't be suicide. And mostly I'm glad you didn't choose to talk more about me than the segment.

[pinkturtle08]

Whoa... hold the phone! What do you mean it aired YESTERDAY? What channel are you watching it on?

[crystaldawn]

And mostly I'm glad you didn't choose to talk more about me than the segment.

Don't make me get out my violin for you Corky..:p

Cricci has some good points. How would Tony have gotten beat up before his death if he kills himself? I don't necessarily think Tony was "caught in the act" with one of his many women but I definitely think the person who murdered him could have been someone who found out Tony had been dating their significant other. I know this isn't a monumental fact in the case but I can't see Tony stripping down naked before he shoots himself. Obviously he knew had he ended his own life in his bed that his mom would be the one to find him. Just a little fact but one of many that point toward murder especially if the person responsible was linked to one of Tony's women he was seeing, you know the whole humiliation factor. Tony seemed full of life and of course loved the ladies so I can't see a DUI pushing him over the edge. Its not like he would have jail time for that or anything, probably a fine and probation. Tony seemed to have his fair share of enemies from what the segment told and it just seems much more believable that he was murdered than that he killed himself.

I actually think way more people on this board think it was murder than suicide. Corky maybe you should start a thread with a poll asking "murder or suicide". It would be interesting to see the results.

[Corky Kneivel]

Don't make me get out my violin for you Corky..:p



LOLOLOLOL!! Would that be the world's smallest violin, crystaldawn? I swear though...how did I end up being the bad guy in this thread? I know I acknowledged and apologized for getting personal (and I think I asked you to take down one of my posts where I got personal on kadrmas15 but after re-reading this entire thread from start to finish I remembered why I was getting all up in arms in the first place. I swear I didn't start with the personal stuff, nor did I start with the snarky and smug stuff, and I wasn't the one intentionally misrepresenting what others said and changing my responses. I did answer back more than my fair share, though...and I look like a jerk off in some of those replies. Others, however I am the height of hilarity and intellectual wizardry. In all of them though, I am 100% right in my assertion that it was a suicide.:wave: <-- me doing my "that was a joke" wave




I actually think way more people on this board think it was murder than suicide. Corky maybe you should start a thread with a poll asking "murder or suicide". It would be interesting to see the results.


I agree with you that way more people on this board think it was murder than suicide. You know I actually entertained the thought of starting a new poll? I decided against it and decided to re-open this thread, apparently in a self-deluded desperate fit of frustrating ego-maniacal futility, because I hoped that my drawn out and step by step analysis of the known facts, coupled with my incredibly adept insightful and sophisticated detective work, partnered with my devastatingly handsome face and sculpted physique, added with a splash of my modest humility, could convert some of these sheeple from "murder" to suicide".

Boy was THAT a miscalculation.




Speaking to your post (and, by association, to LookslikeCRicci's):

Cricci has some good points. How would Tony have gotten beat up before his death if he kills himself? I don't necessarily think Tony was "caught in the act" with one of his many women but I definitely think the person who murdered him could have been someone who found out Tony had been dating their significant other. I know this isn't a monumental fact in the case but I can't see Tony stripping down naked before he shoots himself. Obviously he knew had he ended his own life in his bed that his mom would be the one to find him. Just a little fact but one of many that point toward murder especially if the person responsible was linked to one of Tony's women he was seeing, you know the whole humiliation factor. Tony seemed full of life and of course loved the ladies so I can't see a DUI pushing him over the edge. Its not like he would have jail time for that or anything, probably a fine and probation. Tony seemed to have his fair share of enemies from what the segment told and it just seems much more believable that he was murdered than that he killed himself.


This is something I was struggling to get people to acknowledge before. How can you be sure Tony got "beat up"? We don't know the trajectory of the bullet, nor where it was fired into Tony. But surely if he placed the gun under his chin, against his temple, or anywhere around his face, the impact of a metal projectile slamming into your head could lead to a fractured jaw. Its possible isn't it? Neither the doctor nor the police pointed to the bruising as being indicative of anything. I have the faith in both parties that if they noticed significant bruising of the variety that indicates someone kneeling or forcing someone into restraint, that would have raised a flag for them. This one of those things, along with the "death threats" (sarcasti-quoties), that I think the family is skewing to point to murder but, according to the professional investigative authorities, are of no real importance or significance.

Now to your words specifically:
1. This is one of the things I have a hard time with and I will address just so we all watch how we word things, when you say something like, "Obviously he knew had he ended his own life in his bed that his mom would be the one to find him. Just a little fact but one of many that point toward murder..." - You are giving your own opinion about what you think was going through his mind, and then you attribute it to being "a fact" and use it as evidence to support your theory. In reality all you have done is made up a "fact" because none of us can know what was going through his mind. We all have our opinions, and those are based off of, and are our best estimations of how to explain, the actual "facts" of the case.

2. When you say, "Tony seemed full of life and of course loved the ladies so I can't see a DUI pushing him over the edge. Its not like he would have jail time for that or anything, probably a fine and probation." - Again this is your rational mind seeing it this way. When someone is suicidal, not because of a DUI but because of any number and culmination of reasons, they see each and every small problem as insurmountable and further evidence that things will never get better. We just are 180 degrees opposite in our estimation of the guy. My opinion is that he was not full of life and happy, just because we see a couple pictures of him smiling. Which leads me to...

3. You say, "Tony seemed full of life" and point to the UM segment stating how he was seeing 4 women, one of whom was alreadfy married. Then you say, "Tony seemed to have his fair share of enemies from what the segment told..." I think a guy who's slutting around with married women, keeps getting harassed by people legitimately wanting to kill him, his friend knows him enough to ask if TL wants him to fight his fight for him, wouldn't be a carefree "lovin the life" kinda guy for whom suicide is just a crazy idea. It sounds like someone who might not have too hgh of an opinion of the life they're leading. Does that make sense to you? Also, you say that he had his fair share of enemies then you go on to wonder how he could have gotten beat up. Couldn't it have been one of his many enemies beating him up?



I look at all the facts and see "suicide". No doubt about it, 100% explainable. But I don't begrudge anyone their differing opinion and I enjoy discussing this case with folks who don't get upset at how adamant I am that he killed himself.


I would LOVE to know the answers to some key questions:

1. When was the last time Tony was seen alive, and by whom, before his mother found his body?
2. Where was the bullet fired into Tony?
3. How did the coroner desribe the bruises on Tony?
4. Who's gun was it and where was it normally kept?
5. Did any of the women TL was seeing have babies, abortions, or miscarriages within 9 months of his death?
6. Why the "death threats" portion of the segment was cropped?

[SP4CE INV4DERZ]

Given the evidence presented on Unsolved Mysteries and discussion here, I think that it's most likely he commited suicide rather than being murdered. So Cork, I'm with you ;)

[crystaldawn]

LOLOLOLOL!! Would that be the world's smallest violin, crystaldawn? I swear though...how did I end up being the bad guy in this thread? I know I acknowledged and apologized for getting personal (and I think I asked you to take down one of my posts where I got personal on kadrmas15 but after re-reading this entire thread from start to finish I remembered why I was getting all up in arms in the first place. I swear I didn't start with the personal stuff, nor did I start with the snarky and smug stuff, and I wasn't the one intentionally misrepresenting what others said and changing my responses. I did answer back more than my fair share, though...and I look like a jerk off in some of those replies. Others, however I am the height of hilarity and intellectual wizardry. In all of them though, I am 100% right in my assertion that it was a suicide.:wave: <-- me doing my "that was a joke" wave

I agree with you that way more people on this board think it was murder than suicide. You know I actually entertained the thought of starting a new poll? I decided against it and decided to re-open this thread, apparently in a self-deluded desperate fit of frustrating ego-maniacal futility, because I hoped that my drawn out and step by step analysis of the known facts, coupled with my incredibly adept insightful and sophisticated detective work, partnered with my devastatingly handsome face and sculpted physique, added with a splash of my modest humility, could convert some of these sheeple from "murder" to suicide".

Boy was THAT a miscalculation.

Speaking to your post (and, by association, to LookslikeCRicci's):

This is something I was struggling to get people to acknowledge before. How can you be sure Tony got "beat up"? We don't know the trajectory of the bullet, nor where it was fired into Tony. But surely if he placed the gun under his chin, against his temple, or anywhere around his face, the impact of a metal projectile slamming into your head could lead to a fractured jaw. Its possible isn't it? Neither the doctor nor the police pointed to the bruising as being indicative of anything. I have the faith in both parties that if they noticed significant bruising of the variety that indicates someone kneeling or forcing someone into restraint, that would have raised a flag for them. This one of those things, along with the "death threats" (sarcasti-quoties), that I think the family is skewing to point to murder but, according to the professional investigative authorities, are of no real importance or significance.

Now to your words specifically:
1. This is one of the things I have a hard time with and I will address just so we all watch how we word things, when you say something like, "Obviously he knew had he ended his own life in his bed that his mom would be the one to find him. Just a little fact but one of many that point toward murder..." - You are giving your own opinion about what you think was going through his mind, and then you attribute it to being "a fact" and use it as evidence to support your theory. In reality all you have done is made up a "fact" because none of us can know what was going through his mind. We all have our opinions, and those are based off of, and are our best estimations of how to explain, the actual "facts" of the case.

2. When you say, "Tony seemed full of life and of course loved the ladies so I can't see a DUI pushing him over the edge. Its not like he would have jail time for that or anything, probably a fine and probation." - Again this is your rational mind seeing it this way. When someone is suicidal, not because of a DUI but because of any number and culmination of reasons, they see each and every small problem as insurmountable and further evidence that things will never get better. We just are 180 degrees opposite in our estimation of the guy. My opinion is that he was not full of life and happy, just because we see a couple pictures of him smiling. Which leads me to...

3. You say, "Tony seemed full of life" and point to the UM segment stating how he was seeing 4 women, one of whom was alreadfy married. Then you say, "Tony seemed to have his fair share of enemies from what the segment told..." I think a guy who's slutting around with married women, keeps getting harassed by people legitimately wanting to kill him, his friend knows him enough to ask if TL wants him to fight his fight for him, wouldn't be a carefree "lovin the life" kinda guy for whom suicide is just a crazy idea. It sounds like someone who might not have too hgh of an opinion of the life they're leading. Does that make sense to you? Also, you say that he had his fair share of enemies then you go on to wonder how he could have gotten beat up. Couldn't it have been one of his many enemies beating him up?

I look at all the facts and see "suicide". No doubt about it, 100% explainable. But I don't begrudge anyone their differing opinion and I enjoy discussing this case with folks who don't get upset at how adamant I am that he killed himself.

I would LOVE to know the answers to some key questions:

1. When was the last time Tony was seen alive, and by whom, before his mother found his body?
2. Where was the bullet fired into Tony?
3. How did the coroner desribe the bruises on Tony?
4. Who's gun was it and where was it normally kept?
5. Did any of the women TL was seeing have babies, abortions, or miscarriages within 9 months of his death?
6. Why the "death threats" portion of the segment was cropped?

It sounds like you still have many questions about this case which seems to indicate you're not as convinced of suicide as you say. You keep telling me the comments I've made aren't supported by the facts of the case. I can say the same for you. First off how in the world did you get from watching the UM segment I just finished watching minutes ago that Tony could possibly be suicidal? There wasn't one fact presented that would make you come to that conclusion so I don't see why you seem so convinced of that. How does the fact that Tony got a DUI lead you to believe he was suicidal? No one interviewed in the segment that knew him well seemed to have the slightest indication he was depressed (and these are the people who knew him the best), just some questionable detectives after the fact speculating. You seem to believe yourself that he was probably beaten up before his death. Surely even you can admit that if Tony had been in a fight with someone that its also very possible that this someone could have finished the fight by shooting Tony.

You also keep saying that I don't know Tony's mental state at the time of his death....do you? How do you know what Tony was thinking? How do you know he wasn't happy in his life? Was there some fact presented in the case that I'm not aware of? When you pick apart my post the same can be done of yours. Just pointing out that all of your theories are purely speculative as are mine. I do think the UM segment portrayed Tony as being a fairly happy guy and lets assume this portrayal was based on what people close to Tony said about him. If he was so depressed as to be suicidal than why wouldn't any of his friends or family state that? He certainly wasn't acting like someone who is in the deep throws of a depression. OF COURSE THIS IS MY OPINION!! You can't give me one fact stated on UM that supports your theories, you can't because its all your opinion. Just as the belief that Tony Lombardi was murdered is mine.

[videohunter]

from what i remember from the segment, to me it does seem pretty obvious that he was murdered, with the trajectory of the bullet, bruises, him being naked ect..., but what doesn't make sense to me is with all the seemingly obvious clues leaning toward murder, do u really think the the westerville PD was really that naive ?, with all of us who see what we precieve as blantant clues leaning toward murder, do u think the PD wouldn't come to same conclusion ? i don't know, it just makes me scratch my head, initally i personally thought he was murdered , but reading this thread and everyones interesting opinions, i really don't know anymore.......i think there is info either UM left out or something was told in the segment in error, now i also think the confrontation with the person in the truck was real, remember tony's friend tried to talk someone out of wanting to beat tony up without success, or maybe it had to do with Tony cutting a person off or what not, but has anyone considered , he may have been beaten up or in a fight earlier in the night or day asteming from the infedelities, or road issue ect...,which could account for the bruises ?, maybe with the preasures of the DUI, perhaps one of his women he was seeing could have broke it off with him, i am assuming that with this dui, he could of had a drinking problem, which could of lead to fogged judgement which could have lead to him bein distraught over losing one of the girls,(people have commited suicide in the past over losing someone they had strong feelings for), the dui, potentially losing his vehicle(remember he loved his car), and perhaps getting beatup earlier, all of that compounded in addition to apotential drinking problem, could have lead to him wanting to end his life...:confused: , for years ,i was 100% certain that he was murdered ,but now i really don't know anymore...:confused:

[Corky Kneivel]

Given the evidence presented on Unsolved Mysteries and discussion here, I think that it's most likely he commited suicide rather than being murdered. So Cork, I'm with you ;)


yAayayayyyy!!!

Alright now with NA4STER joining the Alliance, the rebels don't stand a chance. And along with an inbox I've received, we've got another joiner...so that makes it 4 for suicide, and 3 for murder.

And also, after crystaldawn's last post, and her recent inbox, she totally wants to change her vote and has come around to my way of thinking. Don't pay any attention to any lies she may spew henceforth about this, she totally has changed he rmind because of my genius breakdown and illumination.

[crystaldawn]

yAayayayyyy!!!

Alright now with NA4STER joining the Alliance, the rebels don't stand a chance. And along with an inbox I've received, we've got another joiner...so that makes it 4 for suicide, and 3 for murder.

And also, after crystaldawn's last post, and her recent inbox, she totally wants to change her vote and has come around to my way of thinking. Don't pay any attention to any lies she may spew henceforth about this, she totally has changed he rmind because of my genius breakdown and illumination.

You might be a little concerned if NA4STER agrees with you...:p

Me, agree with you?? What have you been sniffing Corky? Remember when you start your car before work in the morning open the garage door first and stop trying to do a reenactment of the Kennethy Ingy segment. The more I argue with you the more I'm convinced he was murdered.

Really all this humor on your part is just trying to mask that my rebuttal of your most recent post has left you at a loss for words...:D

[Corky Kneivel]

Crystaldawn..."denial" ain't just a river in Canada, honey. Its time you just readilly admit that my stunningly cunning deductive powers have gotten ahold of you. The people won't think any less of you for changing your mind.

No get busy and reply to my last pee em!! Each time I come back to this site and am not immediately informed of a super-secret message from you popping up on my screen means I have to actually do some work!!

[Cori aka ChrisSCrush]

Crystaldawn..."denial" ain't just a river in Canada, honey.

Nor is Canada anywhere near Egypt.

[mphs95]

Nor is Canada anywhere near Egypt.

Good one!:lol:

[wiseguy182]

Tony Lombardi was a depressed young man who was very unhappy with his life. In his eyes he worked a dead end factory job filling up cans of baby food, was prematurely balding, still lived with his mom and the baby food job wasn’t going to put enough cash in his pockets for his own place,

1. most jobs are monotonous
2. 21 is hardly an old age to be living with your parents.
3. most people that age don't have loads of extra cash laying around.
4. none of the pics I've seen of Tony have him prematurely balding.
5. Tony didn't appear to be any worse off than anyone else his age. He was apparently charming and attractive enough to have 3 ladies interested in him at the time of his death.

I fear I'm going to open up a can of worms with this one. :)

[LooksLikeCRicci]

LOL. Yeah, Tony didn't seem to have any trouble in the Ladies Department. In fact, as Robert Stack would have said... it could have been a motive for his murder. :D

[videohunter]

i know this is an old thread, but this was always a case that caught my interest as it really is a real mystery, but after re-reading this thread i'm def leaning toward suicide also .. corky you def have great valid points and i enjoy reading your posts ! , now think of how brazen it would be to go into someone's house undetected kill a healthy 22 year old human being and leave the same way , undetected !., i mean the best hitmen in the world r paid thousands for such a circumstance (from what i see on t.v. anyway lol)

i'll focus on what is the biggest murder arguement ,and that would be the tragectory of the bullet and the fact his head while propped up on pillows was above the bullets path !

now this is just conjecture on my part but i may have an explaination for this, first let me say that being a parent myself i was tell you with 100% certainty that if i opened my child's door and saw him in a state like that the first thing i would do is go over to him and grab him and comfort him and try a revive him without even thinking, meaning it's a parents instinct, correct ?, i can't see a parent going into there child's room whether they think they r dead or not , and not going over to their child with some physical contact of some kind , just on disbelief of what they r seeing and in doing so may not at all have recollection of it do to severe shock ! , so i think his own mother took what would have been a scene showing a lot worse state of postition of her son and within a mother's instinct propped her sons head on those pillows as a last ditched effort to make her son peaceful whether it was done with or without all her mental/emotional capacities due to the shock! i really don't think she would've had memory of this at all !

just my thought :)

[justins5256]

I always thought this was a suicide.

The fact that UM doesn't disclose where the gun came from is a clue in itself - why didn't they disclose? Because it probably came from the Lombardi house. Tony knew where it was kept, or maybe it was even his. I don't think some killer (assuming it was one of Tony's enemies mentioned in the segment) would have known about the gun.

Plus I doubt the killer would have stuck around the house for hours risking discovery until Mrs. Lombardi came home as Corky and others have already pointed out.

That being said, I'm just stating my opinion, and I really don't feel like debating this one. Sorry if that seems like a cop out, normally I would be up for a good debate but I think this one has been beaten to death already. I know I won't change my opinion, and I doubt I can change anyone else's.

[videohunter]

i will also add one more reason i'm leaning toward suicide, i just finished re-watching the segment, and the trajectory of the bullet's path was upward not downward ., meaning if 1 or 2 people were holding him down the bullets path most likely IMO would be in a downward path as the murderer(s) r on top of him. NOW being a suicide lying on his back gun pointed to his forehead pulling the trigger would make the path upward which is how the trajectory was ...

[crystaldawn]

i will also add one more reason i'm leaning toward suicide, i just finished re-watching the segment, and the trajectory of the bullet's path was upward not downward ., meaning if 1 or 2 people were holding him down the bullets path most likely IMO would be in a downward path as the murderer(s) r on top of him. NOW being a suicide lying on his back gun pointed to his forehead pulling the trigger would make the path upward which is how the trajectory was ...

Well I think either is a possibility but I'm still leaning towards murder. They gave various reasons that some people would have wanted to kill Tony in a rage type killing. I'm basing this next comment on the assumption that the UM reenactment is 100% accurate but his body seemed like it was in a posed position. His heads appeared to be propped up on pillows and his arms placed there on his chest not to mention the odd fact of his wrist being broken. There were some things that seem to indicate he could have been in an altercation.

As far as the gun I do wish they could have said more about it. If Tony were in fear for his life he may have very well carried one. More info on the gun could have been purposely left out by UM as they were known to leave out a few key facts on most cases. Just a theory.

[MysteryStacks]

i agree...the facts about the gun were not disclosed and are a crucial clue to this case...my opinion is that he was murdered

why sleep naked and kill yourself? makes no sense

the broken watch? makes no sense (for the suicide theory anyways)

but this is what i dont get...why risk getting seen by the mother and kill Tony in his bedroom? why not kill him when he is out side on his own and away from his mother/parents risking to see the killer? this makes a good argument for the suicide theory...however the evidence of the case has more murder evidence IMO than suicide...contract killers dont actually care where you are as soon as they see the chance they will take you out...so maybe someone hired someone to kill tony?? someone with experience??

i saw the segment various times and i just cant force my self to believe that this was a suicide

its sad to think that whenever the police/sherrif cannot continue/solve the investigation of a case they just throw the suicide possibility around..its sad

[Mastermind]

but this is what i dont get...why risk getting seen by the mother and kill Tony in his bedroom

Your assuming the killer considers Tony's mother as an obstacle. Worse comes to worse he just needs to kill two people and fake a murder suicide by Tony.

[rhzunam]

I'm torn on this case. The only thing that makes me think it could have been a murder is the mother's timeframe and who turned on that light. If she's telling the truth, then I would agree that there is a possibility he wouldn't kill himself.

On the other hand if the gun does belong to Tony or his family, the I have no doubt it was a suicide. Everything else points to it. The whole threat and "getting his" and all that to me points more to a fight than a murder being set up the way it was.

To me it's also key what Corky said which is something that I thought immediately but I'm surprised everybody took UM's point of view on what was stated. When they show the home video and Stack says "this home video shows him just as his friend remember him, fun loving and always with a smile in his face" , I immediately thought, "he doesn't look that great to me". He looked totally uneasy with the camera and he didn't scream "fun loving, happy person either". Same thing with the photo were he is with a tux. He looked a little bit gloomy in that picture too. So if the family says see him as fun loving based on that little thing I saw of him, I could definitely cast doubt on their judgement and I wouldn't be surprised if he commited suicide. A lot of people here talked like there is no doubt that he was having a blast in life and would never commit suicide based on a DUI, but I totally didn't get that. I'm not saying he was depressed or commited suicide as I don't know him or his situation but I also don't buy this "he could never commit suicide" stuff that some people have expressed here as well as his family.

Also commiting suicide naked in his room is a totally weird and not that credible story, so I can get that argument. But to me the "sneaking up to a guy's room, killing him and staying there for hours until the parent came home" is even less believable. And unlike other cases where there is hair tissue and blood of other people, if there was a fight, why wasn't there physical evidence of a fight in the room, like blood from the other guy or hair samples?

Only the light and the mom's testimony is making me feel it may be a murder, otherwise I would say suicide all the way.

[Corky Kneivel]

**sigh**

I don't think I've ever been so amazingly smart and yet such a complete @$$-hole in one post quite like this one.



hey MysteryStacks, when you say "...however the evidence of the case has more murder evidence IMO than suicide..." - what "murder evidence" do you speak of?

[rhzunam]

**sigh**

I don't think I've ever been so amazingly smart and yet such a complete @$$-hole in one post quite like this one.


Which post are you talking about?

[justins5256]

Maybe he figured "I came into this world naked, I'll leave this world naked".

Just a thought.

[Corky Kneivel]

Maybe he figured "I came into this world naked, I'll leave this world naked".

Just a thought.


"We all enter this world in the same way: naked; screaming; soaked in blood.
But if you live your life right...that kind of thing doesn't have to stop there."
© Dana Gould





@rhzunam: Oh…I’m sort of joking. Even though I wouldn’t truly ever refer to myself as “amazingly smart” ((although I wouldn’t stop anyone else trying to refer to me that way :wave: heh)), I don’t really think I was ass-hole. However I willfully acknowledge that I can get boorish and react pissily if I feel like I’m being misunderstood. It’s a childish trait. In this thread I got petty in some places and I shouldn’t have tried to argue so much. I think I did my argument a disservice by making it more about the bickering than about what is known about the Lombardi suicide. Plus a lot of my replies were in response to stuff that has since been deleted. All that being said, there STILL are replies this thread that make me want to http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/4.gif out of sheer frustration.



I just don’t see how anyone can view this as a murder. No, wait that’s incorrect. IF you believe Tony Lombardi’s mother’s account then it can’t be anything but murder, so I guess I can see HOW people think it’s a murder. However, I don’t believe her. I just don’t find the woman’s account credible. This is due in large part to the sheer implausibility of the scenario, and also in part due to her giving conflicting statements. My heart goes out to any parent who has to bury their child and its obvious this woman loved her son, but I think, make that I KNOW, she has just flat out decided to not accept any scenario involving his suicide. She says as much in her interview.

Take away any of my conjecture on: what Tony may have thought of himself, his friend’s statement, what may have happened to him in the hours preceding his death, what his home life may have been like; take all of that away…what is left is what is known. What can be reasoned from what we know, point in no other direction than suicide, IMO.

If anyone would like me to extrapolate on why just ask, but my reasoning for suicide is based on the following factors:

Timeline
Gun
Gunshot residue on his hand
Lack of any evidence of a struggle
Lack of evidence of another human being in that room
No statements from anyone else about people in or around the Lombardi home
Conflicting statements from the mother ((discredits any of her later revisions, IMO))

I would also like to clarify that I’m operating on the assumption that if any of the preceding factors were to be incorrect, UM would have reported it as it would only serve to deepen the mystery. Surely the Lombardi family would have brought out any direct evidence which would support the mother’s theory ((such as witness statements from neighbors, the ownership of the gun, any hair fibers or fingerprints, etc…))


I can’t understand how anyone reasons that it couldn't be suicide just by saying:

He had a broken watch
There were threats ((Which is, IMO, actually worth looking in to…however all of the other actual evidence points so strongly to suicide I think that this becomes a red herring…also, a question for any of you lawyerly types…this is just hearsay isn’t it?))
Robert Stack said he was a ladies man
The mother’s bullet trajectory analysis
“Nobody kills themselves in the nude over a DUI”

[rhzunam]

The mom and the light to me is the only credible think that can make it a murder. Everything else points to suicide and I'm almost convinced it was so. I think UM had one of the weakest cases and by the amount of information that was left out, I expect that they knew how weak a case it was. That's why I'm surprised by so many people going on about how the police had blinders and they did a bad investigation when the amount of info for their case that it wasn't suicide is so weak as opposed to other suicide cases.

[egswanso]

I agree with Corky; I didn't find the mother credible, and it's very difficult to believe there would be NO evidence of third parties, if indeed, there were third parties.

Let's also look at Lombardi in another light: He fancies himself a "player," a shallow, immature person treating women like objects and obsessed over "cool" cars and image; in reality, he's a loser, stuck in a dead-end, menial job, living at home with his parents, no real future, and now facing legal troubles and the loss of his car, that will destroy his facade. I could see him killing himself. Admittedly, this kind of post-factual analysis could be done on almost anyone, and seems harsh and overly negative - but the point is that it's certainly possible to see why (in his mind) he had cause to kill himself; nor is it inconsistent with how the segment portrayed him and as likely, if not more-so, then his mother's beliefs.

While LE is certainly not perfect, in this or any other case, that the police, coroner, and DA, with all the evidence at their disposal, all came to the same conclusion means, to me, at least, the burden of proof must rest on the murder theorists, and while there are a few questions (which could likely be answered if we had access to the case file), there is little to no hard evidence suggesting murder.

[peachysquirt21]

I agree with Corky; I didn't find the mother credible, and it's very difficult to believe there would be NO evidence of third parties, if indeed, there were third parties.

Let's also look at Lombardi in another light: He fancies himself a "player," a shallow, immature person treating women like objects and obsessed over "cool" cars and image; in reality, he's a loser, stuck in a dead-end, menial job, living at home with his parents, no real future, and now facing legal troubles and the loss of his car, that will destroy his facade. I could see him killing himself. Admittedly, this kind of post-factual analysis could be done on almost anyone, and seems harsh and overly negative - but the point is that it's certainly possible to see why (in his mind) he had cause to kill himself; nor is it inconsistent with how the segment portrayed him and as likely, if not more-so, then his mother's beliefs.

While LE is certainly not perfect, in this or any other case, that the police, coroner, and DA, with all the evidence at their disposal, all came to the same conclusion means, to me, at least, the burden of proof must rest on the murder theorists, and while there are a few questions (which could likely be answered if we had access to the case file), there is little to no hard evidence suggesting murder.


I think it's uncalled for you to be calling him a loser just cause of his job & him living at home still. You have no proof whatsoever that he was unhappy with his job & depressed.

[Mastermind]

I think it's uncalled for you to be calling him a loser just cause of his job & him living at home still. You have no proof whatsoever that he was unhappy with his job & depressed.

If everyone that had a lousy job and lived at home was clinically depressed there would be a lot more suicides in the world.

I don;t see how his job position and the fact that he lives at home matters here.

Hell, Kurt Cobain committed suicide and he had a life most of us would die for.

[mwcarolina]

[QUOTE=Mastermind]If everyone that had a lousy job and lived at home was clinically depressed there would be a lot more suicides in the world. [/QUOTE=Mastermind]

I don;t see how his job position and the fact that he lives at home matters here.

I agree with you, i don't see how a job position and the fact he lives at home determines a suicidal factor, i know people who live at home with their parents and enjoy it because of no big bills to pay. I say murder because of all the bumps and bruises he had, the gash and of course the watch and people keep bashing the mom on the nude thing, remember mom's usually know a lot about their kids.

[egswanso]

I think it's uncalled for you to be calling him a loser just cause of his job & him living at home still. You have no proof whatsoever that he was unhappy with his job & depressed.

Well, the proof is that, IMO (and far more important, the opinion of every law enforcement and legal body in the jurisdiction) he committed suicide.

On a less flippant note, you're right, but that was my point - a harsh, post-factual analysis as to he would have killed himself, which is the counter-argument to "he wouldn't kill himself over a DUI," put simply, the man had reasons to be depressed. Does it mean he killed himself? Not by itself, of course, but it's the necessary counter-argument to the mother's rosy picture of a happy-go-lucky philanderer.

[egswanso]

If everyone that had a lousy job and lived at home was clinically depressed there would be a lot more suicides in the world.

I don;t see how his job position and the fact that he lives at home matters here.

Hell, Kurt Cobain committed suicide and he had a life most of us would die for.

You don't? It clearly matters as the potential reasons for suicide. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting it's GOOD reasons for suicide (can't say there are any of those, frankly), but I've known multiple people who've attempted suicide for exactly the same reason, i.e., one's cosmology is shaken, which makes them question their life and brings them to suicide. From an outsider perspective, these people had "lots to live for" and only minor problems, but that's all it can be take for those of fragile states (and behaviors such as womanizing and alcohol abuse are often are masks for fragile emotional states).

The Kurt Cobain example is actually a good one, if not for the reasons you probably meant - he was full of self-loathing for what most normal people would consider rampant success (and some people think he was murdered too).

[rhzunam]

I totally agree. I don't think his situation is a terrible situation worhty of suicide (what is except horrible diseases and even then) but I also think it's not that positive and I wouldn't be surprised about it. It's definitely far from the "living life" thing a lot of people have given as reason of what it was a murder. Especially after the video that UM showed as proof about how happy he was.

[Mastermind]

You don't? It clearly matters as the potential reasons for suicide.

In my experience there really mozart.

The Kurt Cobain example is actually a good one, if not for the reasons you probably meant - he was full of self-loathing for what most normal people would consider rampant success (and some people think he was murdered too).

Actually the point I was making was that Kurt Cobain had money lived in his own house and had his own freedom AND still had the potential dark mood to kill himself.

Kurt Cobains living arrangements had nothing to do with whether he would commit suicide.

You insinuated that the fact that Tony was living at home at such an age was a sign that he would be suicidal. Yet Tony could have had a rosy outlook on life contrary to Kurt Cobain.


You equated living at home=loser. Yet in your very own words. Kurt Cobain viewed himself as a loser.

A rich man is just as likely to committ suicide as a poor man.


When determining circumstantial evidence for suicide the things you tend to look for are:
1. Prior suicide attempts.
2. Fears from relatives and friends that subject was depressed or might commit suicide.
3. Psychological visits or evidence from doctors
4. History of suicide or depression in family
5. Major inciting incident(s) (loss of job, serious illness, loss of loved one, pending arrest, financial ruin, public embarassment, flunking out of school. etc.etc.)


Do we have any of the above in this case? Is the DUI significant enough to be a major inciting incident for this suicide.

[kadrmas15]

Hmm, I am inclined to agree. Personally I found the comments on the reasons why Tony committed suicide to be disgraceful. I am 25 years old and live with my parents due to various twists and turns in my life. Does that make me some loser too that is going to go and off himself tomorrow? No. That is absurd. I tend to believe Tony Lombardi did not kill himself but even if he did I will say it is not for the ridiculous reasons you insinuated. He was a 22 year old young man that enjoyed partying and the ladies, hardly unusual. He never did go to college and he worked at a factory, not unusual even now let alone back in 1990. He got a DUI, again for a young man that likes to party, not unusual. If he did kill himself it was not for any of these reasons there was something deeper there. I think part of the problem here is people have a tendency to treat people that are considering or do commit suicide as rational people when they are clearly irrational because if you think death is the only way out of your troubles or that is looking good to you than clearly you are not rational. Again, you may be right that Tony Lombardi committed suicide but if he did, the reasoning goes deeper than just getting arrested for drunk driving or living at home and working at a factory. People might attempt suicide in crap like that but it is more to draw attention to themselves because they want help but do not know how to go about it. I have been arrested and convicted of drunk driving myself. While I was angry that I got busted and later depressed it was never anywhere near severe enough I would off myself over it.

[rhzunam]

Hmm, I am inclined to agree. Personally I found the comments on the reasons why Tony committed suicide to be disgraceful. I am 25 years old and live with my parents due to various twists and turns in my life. Does that make me some loser too that is going to go and off himself tomorrow? No. That is absurd. I tend to believe Tony Lombardi did not kill himself but even if he did I will say it is not for the ridiculous reasons you insinuated. He was a 22 year old young man that enjoyed partying and the ladies, hardly unusual. He never did go to college and he worked at a factory, not unusual even now let alone back in 1990. He got a DUI, again for a young man that likes to party, not unusual. If he did kill himself it was not for any of these reasons there was something deeper there. I think part of the problem here is people have a tendency to treat people that are considering or do commit suicide as rational people when they are clearly irrational because if you think death is the only way out of your troubles or that is looking good to you than clearly you are not rational. Again, you may be right that Tony Lombardi committed suicide but if he did, the reasoning goes deeper than just getting arrested for drunk driving or living at home and working at a factory. People might attempt suicide in crap like that but it is more to draw attention to themselves because they want help but do not know how to go about it. I have been arrested and convicted of drunk driving myself. While I was angry that I got busted and later depressed it was never anywhere near severe enough I would off myself over it.

I've been in the same boat too and at times it was depressing but at other times it doesn't matter at all. For some people it could be a whatever but it could also be depresing to some and I tend to believe that to a guy who appears to have commited suicide, it might be what pushed him. Just because you wouldn't, it doesn't mean he wouldn't. I think some people are projecting their lives to him in that way. I wouldn't think he was a loser but neither would have I think suicide is out of the question when the proof of him being lively was dubious. To me as opposed to other cases, the proof point more to suicide than anything.

The situation of him being murdered has a stranger entering his house, getting into a fight without leaving physical trace of him being there, shooting him with his gun and then waiting a couple of hours until his mom arrives and escaping after she was in her room. If he was caught in the act of having sex, then it's worse since what would have happened with the female subject? To me all that has bigger weight that the though it could have happened because some other people wouldn't do the same act if they were in their place or because somebody threatened him before.

[mwcarolina]

When determining circumstantial evidence for suicide the things you tend to look for are:
1. Prior suicide attempts.
2. Fears from relatives and friends that subject was depressed or might commit suicide.
3. Psychological visits or evidence from doctors
4. History of suicide or depression in family
5. Major inciting incident(s) (loss of job, serious illness, loss of loved one, pending arrest, financial ruin, public embarassment, flunking out of school. etc.etc.)
agreed, that is what we look at, i like numbers 1, 2 and 3. Now there are some cases where you don't need that, but it seems the police gave up too soon on this case.
Personally I found the comments on the reasons why Tony committed suicide to be disgraceful. I am 25 years old and live with my parents due to various twists and turns in my life. Does that make me some loser too that is going to go and off himself tomorrow? No.
See, you are 25 and live at home with your parents, but you are alive, you didn't kill yourself which proves that living with your parents doesn't make you depressed or want to kill yourselves, maybe they just don't want to live alone??

[rhzunam]

See, you are 25 and live at home with your parents, but you are alive, you didn't kill yourself which proves that living with your parents doesn't make you depressed or want to kill yourselves, maybe they just don't want to live alone??

What? It doesn't prove anything at all? It would prove as much as much as if Tony Lombardi killed himself, that means that all young people living at home kill themselves. It makes no sense.

[Mastermind]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwcarolina
See, you are 25 and live at home with your parents, but you are alive, you didn't kill yourself which proves that living with your parents doesn't make you depressed or want to kill yourselves, maybe they just don't want to live alone??

What? It doesn't prove anything at all? It would prove as much as much as if Tony Lombardi killed himself, that means that all young people living at home kill themselves. It makes no sense.


Being 25 and living at home is not really that uncommon nor unusual. If he was 30 or 40 you might make a case, but 25 is not that uncommon.

If Tony was able to live with his parents for that long without killing himself, apparently he was reasonably okay with the situation. Most people kill themselves because a situation becomes untolerable. You have to make me think that living with your parents while being 25 had become so untenable a situation for this guy at this point that he decides to off himself with a gun


BTW, technically if you really think about it, you can come up with any reason for someone to commit suicide. I could find any person dead in an alley and
come up with a reason why they might committ suicide. That doesn;t mean that they necessarily that it is a suicide. It is always easy to use insanity as as a motive in crimes. When probing the depths of insanity any and every theory becomes possible. That's why all other theories need to be eliminated before we come upon the ruling that this case is suicide.

[rhzunam]

Being 25 and living at home is not really that uncommon nor unusual. If he was 30 or 40 you might make a case, but 25 is not that uncommon.

If Tony was able to live with his parents for that long without killing himself, apparently he was reasonably okay with the situation. Most people kill themselves because a situation becomes untolerable. You have to make me think that living with your parents while being 25 had become so untenable a situation for this guy at this point that he decides to off himself with a gun


BTW, technically if you really think about it, you can come up with any reason for someone to commit suicide. I could find any person dead in an alley and
come up with a reason why they might committ suicide. That doesn;t mean that they necessarily that it is a suicide. It is always easy to use insanity as as a motive in crimes. When probing the depths of insanity any and every theory becomes possible. That's why all other theories need to be eliminated before we come upon the ruling that this case is suicide.

Tony wasn't 25. kadrmas15 is 25, Tony was 22.

And I don't really get your case about how they have to "make you think it was a suicide" or that anybody can make any reason for a suicide. If the guy commits suicide without leaving a note, then you will never know for sure what made the guy commit suicide. I don't really see the need to make something the motive so clear, when it's never going to be known and it's really doesn't take away from suicide. If a guy is alone in a room with his gun and ends up being shot, chances are it's a suicide or an accident and they don't have to go thru his possible motives to prove that.

[Mastermind]

Tony wasn't 25. kadrmas15 is 25, Tony was 22.



He was only 22!!!!!?????:confused:

That makes my point even more relevant!!!!!!!

That's less than a year out of college for most people. If there were so many people upset at still living at home at age 22, we'd have suicides all over the place!:eek:

[Mastermind]

If a guy is alone in a room with his gun and ends up being shot, chances are it's a suicide or an accident and they don't have to go thru his possible motives to prove that.

How do you know this proverbial guy is alone? Unless the room is a jail cell locked form the outside...he does have a door that can be opened and a house that can be entered in or someone can be let in through. That is by no means an open and shut suicide.

Suicide/murder/accident are never as clear as we make them out to be.

That is why murder has to be ruled out first. That is always the case in any unexplained death case. If you cannot rule out murder, then the case needs to be investigated as a murder. That's why police detectives are called in on any attempted suicide. Especially in a firearm suicide.

And I don't really get your case about how they have to "make you think it was a suicide" or that anybody can make any reason for a suicide. If the guy commits suicide without leaving a note, then you will never know for sure what made the guy commit suicide. I don't really see the need to make something the motive so clear, when it's never going to be known and it's really doesn't take away from suicide.

Because if the 5 qualifications I mentioned before are not met, this case becomes less probable a suicide and more unexplained death.
1. Prior suicide attempts.
2. Fears from relatives and friends that subject was depressed or might commit suicide.
3. Psychological visits or evidence from doctors
4. History of suicide or depression in family
5. Major inciting incident(s) (loss of job, serious illness, loss of loved one, pending arrest, financial ruin, public embarassment, flunking out of school. etc.etc.)

From what I understand the only qualification we have is #5. Which the answer given was "he was still living at home and had a DUI". Neither which are life-altering situations. And if they were they would be dire situations to a mentally unstable person or someone with a history of instability...which we don't have here.

I buy this case more as an accident or possible homicide than as a suicide.

[Corky Kneivel]

I know this thread makes ME want to commit suicide!

[mwcarolina]

What? It doesn't prove anything at all?
yes it does!!! it proves that the theory of being 22 and living at home with parents is NOT a factor in suicide, which is why i disagree with that, whoever said his living situation is a factor in suicide doesnt know people who live at home with their parents. It gives them cheaper room and board and to top it off, they won't be living alone.

That is why murder has to be ruled out first. That is always the case in any unexplained death case. If you cannot rule out murder, then the case needs to be investigated as a murder. That's why police detectives are called in on any attempted suicide.
I agree, the police ruled it suicide and left, they should've at least gave the possibility that is was a murder!!! there is evidence from both sides to suggest murder and suicide.

Because if the 5 qualifications I mentioned before are not met, this case becomes less probable a suicide and more unexplained death.
1. Prior suicide attempts.
2. Fears from relatives and friends that subject was depressed or might commit suicide.
3. Psychological visits or evidence from doctors
4. History of suicide or depression in family
5. Major inciting incident(s) (loss of job, serious illness, loss of loved one, pending arrest, financial ruin, public embarassment, flunking out of school. etc.etc.)
Like i said, i like these qualifications, in my book all don't have to be used for a person who committed suicide, but it makes the case of suicide stronger.

From what I understand the only qualification we have is #5. Which the answer given was "he was still living at home and had a DUI". Neither which are life-altering situations. And if they were they would be dire situations to a mentally unstable person or someone with a history of instability...which we don't have here.
That is true, the DUI to me was one factor, but who would kill themselves over that??? i wouldn't and i know other people who have DUIs but having committed suicide, now he COULD be different, but the fact is the police didn't seem to investigate this case at all.

[kadrmas15]

Well exactly Mastermind and Carolina. I agree with both of your views. Again, NO ONE is saying that Tony Lombardi for sure did not commit suicide. Maybe he did commit suicide. The keyword there though is maybe, not did or did not. Thus the cause of death should have been listed as undetermined, not suicide.

It just seems to me and I supported the mother in ripping on the police department, in my opinion everyone should regardless of whether you think Tony Lombardi committed suicide or not. The reason is the Westerville, Ohio Police Department had tunnel vision which is a big problem. They never did investigate the possibility of murder, at least not seriously. It is very obvious that they did not do that. Any detective will tell you that at least in theory you are supposed to handle any unnatural death as a homicide until it is proven otherwise. In this case the Westerville cops I think thought it was a suicide from the moment they were on scene and never seriously considered even the possibility that it could have been a murder. That is a problem. Once they considered it a suicide, than they no longer considered even the possibility of murder, opportunity to investigate potential suspects for a potential murdered ceased. Basically these guys did not do their jobs and I can tell you, the odds in my opinion are far better that the boyfriend or husband of one of the several women Tony was having a relationship with, the odds are far better a jealous husband or boyfriend would kill Tony Lombardi than Tony Lombardi killing himself because he was 22 and living with his parents or because he got arrested for drunk driving. I mean in 1990, getting a DUI even then was VERY different from getting one now. A lot less stigma, fines and punishment were a lot less.

Again, I am not saying Tony Lombardi did not for sure commit suicide, he may very well have killed himself. However I do not for a minute believe he killed himself for some of the absurd reasons I have read here. In particular about how he killed himself because he was 22 and living at home. When I was 22, I obviously lived at home because I still do now however even the majority of my high school classmates still lived at home at that age. I mean if every 20 something that lived at home was going to kill themselves because they hated living at home you would have a lot less 20 somethings wondering the streets. I mean yes I suppose over the course of time there has been someone, somewhere that killed themselves because they were depressed about living at home but I have honestly never heard of someone killing themselves over that.

I mean, like I said, there needed to be reconstruction of the scene, see where the gun should have fell had Tony shot himself in the head. I mean the way that the scene was, I just think had he shot himself in the head, his hand would not be like it was on the gun. I mean like I said, that whole scene, I would have to watch the segment again to remember it completely but from the way I remember it, it just seemed like it was staged to me. But it just seemed the police pretty much jumped on the bandwagon of suicide right from the word go and thus hey, no real need to investigate this since it was a suicide right? I mean regardless of whether Tony Lombardi killed himself or not, the investigation was not handled properly.

[kadrmas15]

Yes Carolina, as someone who not only lives with his parents at age 25 but had a DUI at age 21 I would agree, I just do not see Tony Lombardi killing himself over a DUI either. I mean, as I said in one my posts above, Tony Lombardi was a 22 year old young man, single guy who lived at home. I am sure he could afford to live on his own but hey, if your parents do not mind you living at home, and you are only 22 why not stay? Free room and board most likely or even if they did charge him rent which I doubt but if they did it would still be a lot lower than renting your apartment.

But Tony was a young, single guy, he liked the ladies, he liked his cars and he liked his booze, not really unusual for a young man. From what I can tell or at least how he was portrayed, Tony Lombardi was into all of those things and was very charismatic thus he was well liked by most people, except for the boyfriends of his girlfriends but that is about all. I mean from what I understand, the boyfriends were the only ones that had a motive to kill Tony and one of them had threatened to do exactly that. Now just because a guy says 'I am going to kill you' does not mean he will follow through. Most of the time it is not followed through on, I mean most if not all of us have used the saying at one time or another. It does not mean we are actually going to kill anyone. However from what I understand, that lead was never investigated.

Basically, even if we were to assume that Tony Lombardi did commit suicide, as I said, it just seems that the cops did not really ever investigate, at least not seriously, the possibility that he could have been murdered. The key word there is possibility. I mean I get it is easier for me to play Monday morning quarterback and talk about what the investigators could have done, should have done, etc. However some of this stuff is pretty basic, I mean investigations 101 type stuff and yet the cops in this case did not follow even basic protocol.

This reminds me of the investigations or lack thereof in other cases where the family thought the person was murdered but the cops said suicide. I mean look at the Danny Williams case on UM, Galesburg, Illinois Police Department never investigated that one as a possible murder. Fairfax County, Virginia Police Department was I think in on a cover up in trying to cover up Tommy Burkett's murder. I mean they were even in conflict with the EMT's that arrived at the scene. I guess it was very obvious to Tommy parents and to the EMT's that Tommy had been dead for several hours. His hands were ice cold and I guess even some rigor had started in. Yet the cops tried to say Tommy had only been dead for several minutes which was a bunch of crap. Also the police never canvassed the neighborhood and they even destroyed the 911 tapes. Plus that spokesman for the FCPD you could tell he was lying his tail off. I mean he had a hard time keeping a straight face at times. The Maryland State Police in how they too covered up a homicide in the death of Ralph Seigler. Again because they never considered murder, I mean Seiglers own army buddy was in on the cover up probably because they threatened him too if he did not stick to the story. Or in Riverside County, California where the Sheriff's Department there never considered that Jeff Digman was murdered. Now, in terms of Digman and Williams I am kind of on the fence on whether those two killed themselves or not but I will say that the cops in both cases never seemed to really consider anything other than suicide. Burkett and Seigler I both feel were murdered and their deaths covered up by government officials.

[rhzunam]

yes it does!!! it proves that the theory of being 22 and living at home with parents is NOT a factor in suicide, which is why i disagree with that, whoever said his living situation is a factor in suicide doesnt know people who live at home with their parents. It gives them cheaper room and board and to top it off, they won't be living alone.

No it doesn't. It proves Kadrmas15 wouldn't have killed himself. It's just a single case.That's it. There are people who love their parents, other that hate it. How can anyone say that because ONE person, didn't kill himself for that reason, it means NO ONE would. If Tony did kill himself or not (I'm not even interested that much in the reason because we will never find out why) the fact that kadrmas living situation will have nothing to do with it.


Well exactly Mastermind and Carolina. I agree with both of your views. Again, NO ONE is saying that Tony Lombardi for sure did not commit suicide. Maybe he did commit suicide. The keyword there though is maybe, not did or did not. Thus the cause of death should have been listed as undetermined, not suicide.

It just seems to me and I supported the mother in ripping on the police department, in my opinion everyone should regardless of whether you think Tony Lombardi committed suicide or not. The reason is the Westerville, Ohio Police Department had tunnel vision which is a big problem. They never did investigate the possibility of murder, at least not seriously. It is very obvious that they did not do that. Any detective will tell you that at least in theory you are supposed to handle any unnatural death as a homicide until it is proven otherwise. In this case the Westerville cops I think thought it was a suicide from the moment they were on scene and never seriously considered even the possibility that it could have been a murder. That is a problem. Once they considered it a suicide, than they no longer considered even the possibility of murder, opportunity to investigate potential suspects for a potential murdered ceased. Basically these guys did not do their jobs and I can tell you, the odds in my opinion are far better that the boyfriend or husband of one of the several women Tony was having a relationship with, the odds are far better a jealous husband or boyfriend would kill Tony Lombardi than Tony Lombardi killing himself because he was 22 and living with his parents or because he got arrested for drunk driving. I mean in 1990, getting a DUI even then was VERY different from getting one now. A lot less stigma, fines and punishment were a lot less.

Again, I am not saying Tony Lombardi did not for sure commit suicide, he may very well have killed himself. However I do not for a minute believe he killed himself for some of the absurd reasons I have read here. In particular about how he killed himself because he was 22 and living at home. When I was 22, I obviously lived at home because I still do now however even the majority of my high school classmates still lived at home at that age. I mean if every 20 something that lived at home was going to kill themselves because they hated living at home you would have a lot less 20 somethings wondering the streets. I mean yes I suppose over the course of time there has been someone, somewhere that killed themselves because they were depressed about living at home but I have honestly never heard of someone killing themselves over that.

I mean, like I said, there needed to be reconstruction of the scene, see where the gun should have fell had Tony shot himself in the head. I mean the way that the scene was, I just think had he shot himself in the head, his hand would not be like it was on the gun. I mean like I said, that whole scene, I would have to watch the segment again to remember it completely but from the way I remember it, it just seemed like it was staged to me. But it just seemed the police pretty much jumped on the bandwagon of suicide right from the word go and thus hey, no real need to investigate this since it was a suicide right? I mean regardless of whether Tony Lombardi killed himself or not, the investigation was not handled properly.


I don't know why the police deparment failed so much in the investigation when the evidence for it not being a suicide is so weak. It's probably the weakest case of it profiled in the UM. I don't know why the odds are better than somebody else did it when there was no apparent physical evidence of somebody else being there in his house and when the guy killed himself with his gun or the family gun. I don't think how important is the reason for him to kill himself since everybody else is either speculating that the reason he killed himself was for being at home at 22 with a DUI(as we will ever find out the reason) and then saying it's not probable because they themselves wouldn't kill themselves for that. If that's the case I could just show that it was because the video that the family showed as proof that he was happy and living life, showed anything but.

[kadrmas15]

It is hardly weak. You assume it was suicide when there is really nothing to point to it. Explain how he got the injuries he had? He did have injuries, how did they get there? I mean, it is not just me saying that cops typically look at homicide first. Regardless if the evidence according to you is weak or not cops are still supposed to investigate every possibility. They simply did not do it in this case. They determined pretty much from the word Go that it was suicide and that was that. In terms of the other scenario, we were not just talking about me. We were talking about anybody in that situation. I have known people personally who have killed themselves, I have known of many more that have killed themselves and none killed themselves for such absurd reasons as living at home or getting arrested for drunk driving. I mean I can see how either might push an already vulnerable person that is already teetering on the brink of suicide, over the edge, however none of that is evident in Lombardi's case. All I was trying to tell you is that Lombardi MIGHT not have killed himself.

[egswanso]

People seem to be ignoring or not understanding my point re: Lombardi's situation. What I have seen and fully accept as motivation someone may have for suicide is a shattered cosmology.

That is, we each have a mental picture of ourselves, what we hold important, etc. Each is different, and may or may not mesh with the persona we adopt; and there can be serious consequences for our mental health when/if this cosmology is shattered (a crisis of faith, or of conscious, if you will).

Do the known facts re: his history and lifestyle prove Lombardi committed suicide? No, of course not. They merely suggest a plausible hypothesis that is consistent with known facts.

I don't get bad police work here, at least to the extent we often see it in these murder v. suicide UM. You have an inconsistent witness, no physical evidence of a third party, and no murder hypothesis consistent with the physical evidence. If we presume the "bruises" to be evidence of a struggle, why no evidence of a struggle, for instance? It seems more like a situation where a proper investigation was done that the parents just can't accept, based NOT on evidence, but on magical thinking.

Of course, I caveat this, in a big way, frankly, that I have not seen the police file; I do not really know what all investigation was done, so this is more opinion then argument I can support with factual citations.

[mwcarolina]

No it doesn't. It proves Kadrmas15 wouldn't have killed himself. It's just a single case.That's it.
yeah, but i am willing to bet money that there is more than one case that 22 year olds don't mind living at home, it is better than living alone, living at home is NOT a reason for Suicide, the only two reasons i could see Tony killing himself is a DUI and maybe friends wanting to hurt him, but living at home with his parents???? NO! not a factor.

[justins5256]

No it doesn't. It proves Kadrmas15 wouldn't have killed himself. It's just a single case.That's it.
yeah, but i am willing to bet money that there is more than one case that 22 year olds don't mind living at home, it is better than living alone, living at home is NOT a reason for Suicide, the only two reasons i could see Tony killing himself is a DUI and maybe friends wanting to hurt him, but living at home with his parents???? NO! not a factor.

Well, to throw in my two cents, when I was 22 and living at home and dating, it was pretty darn embarrassing to bring girlfriends home especially after hours because my parents were there and well, you know how that goes.

Now, I'm not saying this is why he killed himself. Like you said, the reason he did so will never be known.

I also tend to lean toward suicide in this case.

[mwcarolina]

Now, I'm not saying this is why he killed himself. Like you said, the reason he did so will never be known.

I also tend to lean toward suicide in this case.
well in my opinion it is unknown if it is suicide or murder because the police really didn't investigate murder, they ruled it out it seems quick as possible, if it is suicide, living at home is NOT the reason. The reason would be two things either the DUI (which would be STUPID) or some type of friend being angry at him or girlfriend angry at him and he became depressed because of that.

[peachysquirt21]

Now, I'm not saying this is why he killed himself. Like you said, the reason he did so will never be known.

I also tend to lean toward suicide in this case.
well in my opinion it is unknown if it is suicide or murder because the police really didn't investigate murder, they ruled it out it seems quick as possible, if it is suicide, living at home is NOT the reason. The reason would be two things either the DUI (which would be STUPID) or some type of friend being angry at him or girlfriend angry at him and he became depressed because of that.

At this point I see nothing pointing to him being suicidal. Noone has come forward claiming he was depressed or was thinking about suicide, tried to commit suicide in the past. For the police to say he committed suicide over his dui troubles, they should be smacked for even suggesting it given they have nothing to back that theory up.

[rhzunam]

It is hardly weak. You assume it was suicide when there is really nothing to point to it. Explain how he got the injuries he had? He did have injuries, how did they get there? I mean, it is not just me saying that cops typically look at homicide first. Regardless if the evidence according to you is weak or not cops are still supposed to investigate every possibility. They simply did not do it in this case. They determined pretty much from the word Go that it was suicide and that was that. In terms of the other scenario, we were not just talking about me. We were talking about anybody in that situation. I have known people personally who have killed themselves, I have known of many more that have killed themselves and none killed themselves for such absurd reasons as living at home or getting arrested for drunk driving. I mean I can see how either might push an already vulnerable person that is already teetering on the brink of suicide, over the edge, however none of that is evident in Lombardi's case. All I was trying to tell you is that Lombardi MIGHT not have killed himself.

How is there nothing to point to it? He was shot in his room, with his gun and with there not being evidence of a struggle. The mom claimed the person who shot there was hours there will she was at hom and then left but didn't leave blood or any physical evidence? How is the nothing to point to it ? To me everything but the mom's testimony points to a suicide. And I'm surprised that people aren't picking up on that clue that would lead me to believe it could be murder but by their own opinions that he wouldn't kill himself because the reason for a suicide is "stupid". As if that was the reason or that we would ever find the reason for him killing himself.



No it doesn't. It proves Kadrmas15 wouldn't have killed himself. It's just a single case.That's it.
yeah, but i am willing to bet money that there is more than one case that 22 year olds don't mind living at home, it is better than living alone, living at home is NOT a reason for Suicide, the only two reasons i could see Tony killing himself is a DUI and maybe friends wanting to hurt him, but living at home with his parents???? NO! not a factor.

Living at home is better than living alone? To some but to most probably isn't. You don't know how Tony felt about that and you never will. Same thing for the reason he killed himself. To go on about how it's not a factor based on your opinion is careless and wrong. We can't ever know if he did, why he did so.

At this point I see nothing pointing to him being suicidal. Noone has come forward claiming he was depressed or was thinking about suicide, tried to commit suicide in the past. For the police to say he committed suicide over his dui troubles, they should be smacked for even suggesting it given they have nothing to back that theory up.

They may not have a reason to say the motive for it, but they do have plenty of reason to think it was a suicide. I think they did an alright job.

[peachysquirt21]

No signs of a struggle??? Well he had to have been in some kind of struggle given he had a broken jaw, bruises on his chest & a laceration to his face.

[rhzunam]

No signs of a struggle??? Well he had to have been in some kind of struggle given he had a broken jaw, bruises on his chest & a laceration to his face.

I meant no signs of a struggle in the house. The only thing they pointed out was a broken watch but I didn't hear anything about blood from another person, hair, etc.

[kadrmas15]

He did actually have all of those injuries. Broken jaw, lacerations on his face and bruises on his chest as if someone was holding him down. I mean to me that is the big one is the broken jaw. I mean no one seems to know how he got that, he did not have that the last time his parents saw him alive. So that is what makes me think that he was beaten severely and then murdered and the scene staged to make it look like a suicide. I mean when you hit someone hard enough to break their jaw, I would imagine it would knock them out. Plus if the killer spent a couple hours in the house straightening things out that is why you would not see a struggle. I believe Tony Lombardi was in the house alone, well, at least 3 or 4 hours before his mother returned home. I mean to me, those injuries, it should have been investigated how that broken jaw in particular occurred.

[rhzunam]

He did actually have all of those injuries. Broken jaw, lacerations on his face and bruises on his chest as if someone was holding him down. I mean to me that is the big one is the broken jaw. I mean no one seems to know how he got that, he did not have that the last time his parents saw him alive. So that is what makes me think that he was beaten severely and then murdered and the scene staged to make it look like a suicide. I mean when you hit someone hard enough to break their jaw, I would imagine it would knock them out. Plus if the killer spent a couple hours in the house straightening things out that is why you would not see a struggle. I believe Tony Lombardi was in the house alone, well, at least 3 or 4 hours before his mother returned home. I mean to me, those injuries, it should have been investigated how that broken jaw in particular occurred.

If you believe he was alone in the house, then you discount the mother's testimony since she says there was a sound and the light was turned on when she went to check and it wasn't before that. And I believe it would be a proffesional to be able to clean it out and not leave any trace of forced entry and set up the scene without anybody noticing it. And not to forget shooting him with his gun. We never knew where he got the broken jaw from. But I find that a lot harder to believe (that the killer would sneak up, have such a big struggle, shoot him with his gun and leave without no evidence) than he killing himself after a fight gone wrong or because he was depressed.

[kadrmas15]

When I said alone I did not mean literally alone. I meant alone without his parents there. Also you assume that it had to be 'forced' entry. It is not unusual for people to leave their doors unlocked. So if the door was unlocked than there would be no need for forced entry. How do you know how professional the killer was? Since this was never looked at as a potential homicide I guess we will never know now will we? But I still am looking for the explanation of how Tony Lombardi got the broke jaw? I mean did it just magically appear? Also who the hell kills themselves after a fight gone wrong? I mean, I have never heard of someone doing that either. They lose at a fistfight so they figure, boy, instead of getting the guy back, better go home and off myself? No, that makes zero sense. Again, you assume that there would be this big struggle and all this stuff would be disturbed but that is not necessarily true. I mean, Tony Lombardi was seen earlier that day by his parents and did not have a broken jaw. Having a broken jaw is not exactly something you could fake or cover up. So if he was alive it would be obvious his jaw was broken. So when did this 'mystery fight' happen? I mean, it could have only occurred within a very narrow period of time and also how would Tony have got to and from a certain place? His car was not at the house remember because it had been impounded by the police. Clearly he got a ride home from someone but then someone would also have had to have driven him to this 'mystery fight' I mean to me, it is kind of an absurd notion. I just think there are way too many holes in the story here, it is like a swiss cheese. I mean certainly there is not enough there to label this death either a homicide or a suicide, it should have been labeled undetermined and investigated. But it was not done.

[Mastermind]

I meant no signs of a struggle in the house. The only thing they pointed out was a broken watch but I didn't hear anything about blood from another person, hair, etc.

1. If more than one person was responsible for the injuries...Tony probably had no chance at all to commit any damage to the other person or persons.

Two guys could have attacked Tony while one guy had him pinned down. The classic "stand him up-punch him up" scene we see in gangster movies.

2. I don;t believe the struggle happened inside the house..I believe it happened elsewhere and Tony was placed at the scene.

3. If the victim isn;t struggling, then there isn;t any reason for their to be a struggle. Tony may have been layed out with the first blow.

[Mastermind]

I know this thread makes ME want to commit suicide!

Fine.

Just make sure you leave a legible suicide note before you do. I wouldn;t want the police detectives to waste time solving your murder.

(Just kidding...:) )

[Corky Kneivel]

Fine.

Just make sure you leave a legible suicide note before you do. I wouldn;t want the police detectives to waste time solving your murder.

(Just kidding...:) )



Ehhhh...maybe I'll get lucky. Maybe two aspiring professional hitmen, embarking on a "practice hit", while involved in an international jewel smuggling conspiracy, will take me out and dress it up like a suicide. The cops will of course not look into any of those entirely plausible scenarios and, because they hate doing their jobs competently, will surmise I killed myself because I was despondent over how this thread went.

THEN, a rag tag group of plucky go-getter internet sleuths, who had never heard of anyone killing themselves over a stupid reason, will rise together and crack the case!! Thus vindicating me. Of course I'd be dead then so you guys could really half-ass it and it wouldn't bother me none.

;)

[rhzunam]

When I said alone I did not mean literally alone. I meant alone without his parents there. Also you assume that it had to be 'forced' entry. It is not unusual for people to leave their doors unlocked. So if the door was unlocked than there would be no need for forced entry. How do you know how professional the killer was? Since this was never looked at as a potential homicide I guess we will never know now will we? But I still am looking for the explanation of how Tony Lombardi got the broke jaw? I mean did it just magically appear? Also who the hell kills themselves after a fight gone wrong? I mean, I have never heard of someone doing that either. They lose at a fistfight so they figure, boy, instead of getting the guy back, better go home and off myself? No, that makes zero sense. Again, you assume that there would be this big struggle and all this stuff would be disturbed but that is not necessarily true. I mean, Tony Lombardi was seen earlier that day by his parents and did not have a broken jaw. Having a broken jaw is not exactly something you could fake or cover up. So if he was alive it would be obvious his jaw was broken. So when did this 'mystery fight' happen? I mean, it could have only occurred within a very narrow period of time and also how would Tony have got to and from a certain place? His car was not at the house remember because it had been impounded by the police. Clearly he got a ride home from someone but then someone would also have had to have driven him to this 'mystery fight' I mean to me, it is kind of an absurd notion. I just think there are way too many holes in the story here, it is like a swiss cheese. I mean certainly there is not enough there to label this death either a homicide or a suicide, it should have been labeled undetermined and investigated. But it was not done.

Once again, we will never know the reason why he killed himself. So to analzye how he wouldn't kill himself over losing a fight or a DUI or anything like that is a futile exercise. Apparently every reason to kill himself is stupid in your eyes but a conspiracy of people banding together and killing someone with his gun in his house without leaving any physical evidence is perfectly understandable.

[kadrmas15]

Whoa, where did I say it was stupid? I never said any reason was stupid. I said, I did not understand why you thought it was far fetched for a person to kill him yet you evidently do not think it is far fetched for a 22 year old man to kill himself all because he had a DUI and lived at home? I mean if that was the criteria for suicide you would see many 22 year old men out there.

[Mastermind]

Of course I'd be dead then so you guys could really half-ass it and it wouldn't bother me none.

You probably come back as ghost to bother all of us.

Just don;t leave your ghostly face on my television. It;s a plasma and I'd hate to junk it.

;)

[Mastermind]

Ehhhh...maybe I'll get lucky. Maybe two aspiring professional hitmen, embarking on a "practice hit", while involved in an international jewel smuggling conspiracy, will take me out and dress it up like a suicide. The cops will of course not look into any of those entirely plausible scenarios and, because they hate doing their jobs competently, will surmise I killed myself because I was despondent over how this thread went.


Actually has the makings of a pretty good novel....

Maybe the Lifetime Network is interested.......

[Mastermind]

THEN, a rag tag group of plucky go-getter internet sleuths, who had never heard of anyone killing themselves over a stupid reason, will rise together and crack the case!! T

If Tom Voigt solves the Zodiac...internet sleuthing boards may come to prominence in a huge way. That would be a milestone in investigative work if a huge case like that was solved via an internet board.

[egswanso]

If Tom Voigt solves the Zodiac...internet sleuthing boards may come to prominence in a huge way. That would be a milestone in investigative work if a huge case like that was solved via an internet board.

The big difference between Voight and this site, or Websleuths, or similar things is that Voight posted actual case documents. Until and unless we have access to the files and records in ALL these cases, we're doing nothing more than spouting opinions with little importance then hearing ourself opine (myself included) and anyone who thinks otherwise is, IMO, delusional.

I, for one, think the police would have nothing to lose by making their case files on some of these cold cases public (I suppose anyone could make a FOIA request, actually) - then the amateurs might give the professionals a run for the money.

[Mastermind]

The big difference between Voight and this site, or Websleuths, or similar things is that Voight posted actual case documents. Until and unless we have access to the files and records in ALL these cases, we're doing nothing more than spouting opinions with little importance then hearing ourself opine (myself included) and anyone who thinks otherwise is, IMO, delusional.

Websleuths has links and access to documents. I'm also on there under a different name.

This board is impractical to do any serious work on it, but several of the cases listed have their own individual websites with documents, evidence and documents.

I highly recommend that if anyone is looking to explore or even actively take part in an investigation to go to a few of them.

Usually when I talk about cases, it;s usually less to frame a scenario and more to point to where I think an investigation should go. I have no illusions that armchair detective work will actually solve a case on this board.

Any real investigative work requires legwork and intesive Q & A which is something that is beyond the capabilities of ANY website.

For example solving the Tammy Leppert case involves actually visiting the site where she last was seen. how many of us can actualy do that. It also involves talking to the last person she was with. That;s a dangerous scenario considering most of us do not have a badge or gun.

70% of detective work is talking, 20% is gathering evidence, leaving a whopping 10% involved in actual deductive reasoning.

[rhzunam]

Whoa, where did I say it was stupid? I never said any reason was stupid. I said, I did not understand why you thought it was far fetched for a person to kill him yet you evidently do not think it is far fetched for a 22 year old man to kill himself all because he had a DUI and lived at home? I mean if that was the criteria for suicide you would see many 22 year old men out there.

Once again, I don't know the reasons for him to commit suicide and nobody else does or will ever know. It's futile to think of finding out the reason. I think its far fetched because of the circumstance of the case (dying from bullets from his own gun, in his room and with no physical evidence from other parties except himself) and even more so if the evidence of the momo is discoutned, which I think are the only reasons to give doubt to the suicide verdict. The fact that most of the arguments against suicide are because of the reasons for them to be committed when they are judged by somebody else to be invalid, when we don't even know if those were the true reasons and we will never know, makes me even more certain of my take on the case.

[egswanso]

In cold cases where the actual investigation has stalled and/or been closed, armchair investigation is most useful; albeit it when it is based on the actual evidence.

[Mastermind]

In cold cases where the actual investigation has stalled and/or been closed, armchair investigation is most useful; albeit it when it is based on the actual evidence.

1. How do you find new evidence from your armchair?
2. How do you visit a crime scene from your armchair?
3. How do you talk to people involved in the investigation by your armchair?
4. how do you interrogate someone via your armchair?
5. How do you do technical and chemical analysis from your armchair?
6. How do you apprehend someone for a crime from your armchair?


Also keep in mind that the evidence that your looking has been looked at already a multitude of times by other investigators. What are the odds that you are going to find something new that hasn;t already been looked at or discussed ad infinitum?

[Corky Kneivel]

Just don;t leave your ghostly face on my television. It;s a plasma and I'd hate to junk it.

;)


HEY!! Did you just make an ugly joke? I resemble that remark.

WhyIoughtta....

[Mastermind]

uote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind

Just don;t leave your ghostly face on my television. It;s a plasma and I'd hate to junk it.



HEY!! Did you just make an ugly joke? I resemble that remark.

WhyIoughtta....

I only have your avatar to go by....:lol:

[egswanso]

1. How do you find new evidence from your armchair?
2. How do you visit a crime scene from your armchair?
3. How do you talk to people involved in the investigation by your armchair?
4. how do you interrogate someone via your armchair?
5. How do you do technical and chemical analysis from your armchair?
6. How do you apprehend someone for a crime from your armchair?


Also keep in mind that the evidence that your looking has been looked at already a multitude of times by other investigators. What are the odds that you are going to find something new that hasn;t already been looked at or discussed ad infinitum?

Slim to none, which is the likelihood most cold cases get solved, but fresh eyes can always be useful.

[Mastermind]

Slim to none, which is the likelihood most cold cases get solved, but fresh eyes can always be useful.

That's what police departments cold case squads are for.

Actually the closure rate on cold cases is a lot higher than you think. It's not a good closure rate but they do get closed. Your thinking of the more popular cases that are in the media that are decades old. Most cold cases are 3-5 year investigations that get solved because they're connected to another current murder.

[Corky Kneivel]

A few questions for those who think Tony Lombardi was murdered:

Do you believe the mom's story is credible?
How do you imagine the sequence of events?
What would you point to as evidence of murder?
Do you think the police did a sufficient job? If not, what leads you to believe this?


Thanks.

[Mastermind]

Do you believe the mom's story is credible?
Some of it might be. She's a biased witness so everything she says has to be looked at with a degree of skepticism. She's also not an experienced investigator. So it's not like she knows how to come up with a feasible scenario. More interested in what private detectives think.


How do you imagine the sequence of events?
To little evidence to determine that. More investigation is needed.

What would you point to as evidence of murder?
Bruises that indicate a struggle. He was in some type of altercation recently. All it proves is that he was beat up, but the person that beat him is a person of interest that needs to be found.

Do you think the police did a sufficient job? If not, what leads you to believe this?

No, they did not do a sufficient job.
1. simple matter of not wanting to have deal with a difficult case that would stay uncleared on the books. When giving the chance at suicide they jumped at the chance to remove the case from the board.
2. The investigator might have been overworked or inexperienced.




Thanks.[/QUOTE]

1.

[Wamisto]

There is no evidence to support a reason for him to commit suicide. There is no evidence that he was depressed, no evidence that he hated his job. There is no reason given that is plausable for him to commit suicde.

The possible theories given here to even support a suicide IMO are way to weak. Just like that ridiculous reason the cops gave for Tony to commit sucide. That is the most asinine thing I have ever heard & they should bow there heads in shame for even coming up with that theory let alone the poor job they did on this case.

I just don't know how anyone can ignore that this guy had at least 2 death threats against him & then ends up dead. Come on, that is no coicindence.

To each is own tho...

Re: Suicide. Let us remember that the most common reason for death among the people in Tony's age range (18-23) is suicide. Those reasons the police and UM gave for suicide are more than enough to make a young man depressed and push him to kill himself. Many young people in his age range have committed suicide over much less.

As for "There is no evidence that he was depressed, no evidence that he hated his job", this statement is based solely on the segment. Just because UM did not say anything about his job or a history of depression, that doesn't mean there was "no evidence" if it. Even if there is no such evidence, the reasons given in the segment, as I said before, are enough to push some over the edge, because others have done so over much less.

I do not think it is helpful to the discussion to be told that the reasons those of us who believe it might have been suicide give are some of "the most asinine things" you have ever heard (I guarantee you have heard things in your life much more asinine than this, so please spare us with the hyperboles), and that we should "hang our heads in shame" for believing such a "ridiculous" theory (which I do - I mean the believing the theory part, not the hanging my head part). Such language probably gives you a self-esteem boost by belittling those who are not quite smart enough to figure out it was obviously a murder (as you do), but it does not open us up to really listening to what you have to say. Posts like this I usually ignore - if I see another one (I am on page 4 right now), I will not read beyond the first "ridiculous" or "asinine" I see.

[Wamisto]

Let's also look at Lombardi in another light: He fancies himself a "player," a shallow, immature person treating women like objects and obsessed over "cool" cars and image; in reality, he's a loser, stuck in a dead-end, menial job, living at home with his parents, no real future, and now facing legal troubles and the loss of his car, that will destroy his facade. I could see him killing himself. Admittedly, this kind of post-factual analysis could be done on almost anyone, and seems harsh and overly negative - but the point is that it's certainly possible to see why (in his mind) he had cause to kill himself; nor is it inconsistent with how the segment portrayed him and as likely, if not more-so, then his mother's beliefs.

This is why I disagree with those who point to the fact that Lombardi was a hit with the ladies and that he had a lot of a girlfriends as evidence that he would not commit suicide. I remember when Terrell Owens had his "near-death experience", and his spokeswoman got on TV and said, "Terrell would not commit suicide - he has 24 million reasons to be alive" - referring to the amount his contract was worth, of course. I thought to myself when I heard that, "Yes, and Marilyn Monroe had even more 'reasons' to live, but obviously those 'reasons' did not make her very happy".

Two of the most common deaths among male "adult" stars, those who make it a career to sleep with hundreds of beautiful women every year, are suicide and drug overdose - and the latter is often motivated by the drive or need to numb various hurts and pains.

[Wamisto]

Hmm, I am inclined to agree. Personally I found the comments on the reasons why Tony committed suicide to be disgraceful. I am 25 years old and live with my parents due to various twists and turns in my life. Does that make me some loser too that is going to go and off himself tomorrow? No. That is absurd. I tend to believe Tony Lombardi did not kill himself but even if he did I will say it is not for the ridiculous reasons you insinuated. He was a 22 year old young man that enjoyed partying and the ladies, hardly unusual. He never did go to college and he worked at a factory, not unusual even now let alone back in 1990. He got a DUI, again for a young man that likes to party, not unusual. If he did kill himself it was not for any of these reasons there was something deeper there. I think part of the problem here is people have a tendency to treat people that are considering or do commit suicide as rational people when they are clearly irrational because if you think death is the only way out of your troubles or that is looking good to you than clearly you are not rational. Again, you may be right that Tony Lombardi committed suicide but if he did, the reasoning goes deeper than just getting arrested for drunk driving or living at home and working at a factory. People might attempt suicide in crap like that but it is more to draw attention to themselves because they want help but do not know how to go about it. I have been arrested and convicted of drunk driving myself. While I was angry that I got busted and later depressed it was never anywhere near severe enough I would off myself over it.

Are you saying that just because these reasons would not drive you personally to suicide, they could not possibly drive anyone else to suicide?

[Wamisto]

I want to respond to a few things, and then give my opinion on this case.

1. Trajectory of the bullet. I think this can be consistent with a suicide. I would think that if Tony did kill himself, he would have been very tense - even when you want to do yourself in, it is still a nerve-wracking thing, just because of the nature of what you are about to do. I would think that if he was "bracing" himself for a bullet through the head, he would have driven his upper body into the pillows far enough that his head would temporarily sag to the level of the bullet hole. Think about it for a minute - it would be similar to how you would brace yourself when riding a roller coaster.

2. As for the bruises, the laceration, the broken watch, and the broken jaw, these could have been sustained elsewhere. One of the boyfriends of the girls he was seeing might have stalked him that night, and after he left the local hangout, he confronted him and gave him a good roughing up. If he was already depressed, this latest episode might have been a final trigger as well. Suicidal people are already quite fragile - a harsh insult or a good butt-kicking is sometimes all it takes to break the camel's back.

3. The light. If it was suicide, the sound that Tony's mother heard was obviously the gun shot. It is possible that Tony turned the light on shortly before killing himself, but after his mother went to bed. Why would he do this? Who knows. People who are about to kill themselves are probably not thinking that straight to begin with. There could be a hundred reasons - many of them concerning some symbolic act. That is why his being naked does not necessarily rule out suicide on the grounds that it is irrational. There could be a hundred reasons someone would commit suicide naked - none of them probably making much sense, but all of them quite possible when you are in such a state of mind.

Now, what do I personally think? I really don't know. I lean towards suicide, for many of the reasons given by Corky especially but also others (although I would have preferred Corky use a nicer, less condescending tone). But I can't get over some things, namely, the injuries. The most logical explanation for this particular array of injuries is that he was assaulted on his bed in an attempt to murder him. The trajectory of the bullet is probably more consistent with murder, as is the nakedness (most likely humiliation), I would say. The death threats from the guys whose girlfriends he was screwing around with also points towards murder.

But then again, the evidence does not eliminate the possibility of suicide, and in fact, the evidence given for it being murder have other very logical explanations, as opposed to other cases profiled on UM where the explanations are a real stretch. The impression I get is that his mother is grasping at whatever she can to point towards it being a murder. Some of the evidence she gave as "proof" that he was murdered I did not find too convincing.

[Corky Kneivel]

All of your above posts said things I agree with and you made your points much more eloquently than I did.

The only spots I'd like to address are these:



3. The light. If it was suicide, the sound that Tony's mother heard was obviously the gun shot. It is possible that Tony turned the light on shortly before killing himself, but after his mother went to bed....

On the segment, Robert Stack says (paraphrasing): "The only things both sides agree on is that Tony was dead long before his mother got home". So her hearing the gunshot is impossible. This was the first thing that really made it obvious to me that the mother wasn't credible.




Now, what do I personally think? I really don't know. I lean towards suicide, for many of the reasons given by Corky especially but also others (although I would have preferred Corky use a nicer, less condescending tone).


Just to defend myself a bit, a lot of stuff that I was replying to ((and that got me upset)) was deleted. Also, the way you addressed peachysquirt above was how I was trying to do it but I just got too pithy.

[Corky Kneivel]

To little evidence to determine that. More investigation is needed.





No, they did not do a sufficient job.
1. simple matter of not wanting to have deal with a difficult case that would stay uncleared on the books. When giving the chance at suicide they jumped at the chance to remove the case from the board.
2. The investigator might have been overworked or inexperienced.


See I don't understand how you can say that there's too little evidence for you to imagine a scenario of what could have happened, and yet you are certain, even providing possibilities as to why, that the police didn’t do enough? What exactly indicates police laziness or ineptitude? Not being flippant at all but the only reason I can surmise people don’t think the police did enough is because UM didn’t say “The police did enough”.

[peachysquirt21]

Re: Suicide. Let us remember that the most common reason for death among the people in Tony's age range (18-23) is suicide. Those reasons the police and UM gave for suicide are more than enough to make a young man depressed and push him to kill himself. Many young people in his age range have committed suicide over much less.

As for "There is no evidence that he was depressed, no evidence that he hated his job", this statement is based solely on the segment. Just because UM did not say anything about his job or a history of depression, that doesn't mean there was "no evidence" if it. Even if there is no such evidence, the reasons given in the segment, as I said before, are enough to push some over the edge, because others have done so over much less.

I do not think it is helpful to the discussion to be told that the reasons those of us who believe it might have been suicide give are some of "the most asinine things" you have ever heard (I guarantee you have heard things in your life much more asinine than this, so please spare us with the hyperboles), and that we should "hang our heads in shame" for believing such a "ridiculous" theory (which I do - I mean the believing the theory part, not the hanging my head part). Such language probably gives you a self-esteem boost by belittling those who are not quite smart enough to figure out it was obviously a murder (as you do), but it does not open us up to really listening to what you have to say. Posts like this I usually ignore - if I see another one (I am on page 4 right now), I will not read beyond the first "ridiculous" or "asinine" I see.

Next time I have any thoughts on a case, I will be sure to run them by you first for approval to make sure they are appropriate & add to the discussion.

[Wamisto]

Next time I have any thoughts on a case, I will be sure to run them by you first for approval to make sure they are appropriate & add to the discussion.

I think this is meant to be sarcastic, but I cannot tell for certain. I do not care much for sarcasm either.

No, this is not necessary - I regard all opinions here as good opinions, because they are, after all, "opinions". I would just ask that you recognize this and write accordingly.

The substance of what you have said is not a problem - in fact, I agree with a great deal of what you have said. But the way you have said it, and the way you choose to disagree with others, is what I object to.

I will read your next post on this thread (if there will be a next post), and if it is along this nature again, I will ignore all future posts from you (at least on this thread). It is your choice - but I hope you do not use it to get one more good jab in on me.

[Wamisto]

Just to defend myself a bit, a lot of stuff that I was replying to ((and that got me upset)) was deleted. Also, the way you addressed peachysquirt above was how I was trying to do it but I just got too pithy.

Ah, I figured as much. I just didn't know which came first - the chicken or the egg (ie. Corky's rhetoric or the rhetoric of some of the thread's murder-proponents). Anyway, it's never good to fight fire with fire - as tempting as that is!

So nix point #3 then - I usually make sure I double-check those details before posting on them. IF it is suicide, then, there is something that does not check out with the mother's story. Whether it is a deliberate lie, or whether her memory has been clouded by a refusal to believe her son would kill himself, I don't know. I suppose either is possible - though I don't know why she would lie deliberately about it.

As I said before, I really do not know whether it was murder or suicide, but I still lean towards the latter.

[peachysquirt21]

I am done debating over this case. I have stated my thoughts on this matter. To continue with this topic is like beating a dead horse. If others here wish to continue debating over it that is there choice.

[TracyLynnS]

Watched this one again today, so of course, I had to do a search and see what everyone's thoughts were on the subject and to see if there's been any progress in the case. Unfortunately, I see that it's still unsolved.

As for the "committing suicide in the nude" discussion that's been going on in this thread for a few years... Well, I never would have thought someone would do such a thing, it seems so weird, considering that you know that very soon, you are going to be found dead, *and* you're naked!

But then, just this year I watched a special about how winning the lottery has affected people. One of the guys was middle aged, won a ton of money, immediately started cheating on his wife and spending his money so fast that he sold a Ten Million dollar future lottery payment to one of those place that give you cash now for your structured settlements (or whatever it is that they do) for only Two Million dollars. Seems like he blew all that money too.

Anyway, within about two years of winning, he was separated or divorced from his wife and pretty much broke. He wanted her back but she didn't want to reconcile. He went to her house while no one was home and was apparently under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol.

He locked himself in her bedroom, stripped naked, and shot himself to death with a shotgun. IIRC, he locked the bedroom door and left a note outside of it saying that he would be found dead in that room. I have no idea why he decided to get naked for his suicide, but they made the statements about it during the show and there were even the police photos, showing his clothes in a pile on the floor.

In Tony's case, I'm still leaning toward it being a murder, but I'm wondering if they did toxicology on him to see if he was high or drunk at the time. This happened in 1990 and I don't know what kind of drugs were available then, but I do know that meth (I think that's the one) makes people wanna start taking off their clothes for some reason. At least that's what I learned from watching way too many episodes of Cops where those poor officers are trying to arrest a nekkid or nearly nekkid person who's completely out of their minds on drugs....

[Kyte]

Just watched this case.

I have to say, this is one of the most obvious cases of murder in UM history. As to why the LE, DA, and coroner ruled it a suicide, I really have no clue. I'm starting to think that the guy who killed him might have been the son of a cop or something and they were all involved in a cover up.

[cuba_libre]

I've always though the young Mr. Lombardi was a murder victim. Some chick's pissed of boyfriend was always in the fore, but how about a very angry woman? I'm not sure about 1990 technology, but I wonder if there was any, er, "physical evidence" on him that could/would indicate if he'd been with a woman in the room.....:eek:

[Sketch]

I'm sure some of this has already been pointed out but this is the case that made me a lurker on this site so here goes -

Did anyone come forward to say they got into a fight or knew of a fight Tony had gotten into earlier that day? There was a gash over his eye, broken jaw and other bruises. Not a slight skirmish. No witnesses?
I wouldn't think he would shoot himself while naked because the obvious people to find him would be his parents.
Where were his clothes? Could they have been taken in case they had someone other than Tony's dna on them?
Why was his broken watch on the floor? If he threw it there because he was angry why wasn't the room in more disarray?
It is possible the mom heard the killer. They could have been trying to clean up and stage the room.
His mom found him around 12:45 and the police arrived around 1:15. Did it take them half an hour to get there? Was that normal for that area in that time period?
Sure, he could have been bracing himself as someone said before in this thread but there were two pillows under him and the gun was in an odd position to where his hands were for him to have dropped it after bracing and shooting himself, plus bruises were directly under his clenched hands.
His hands were still clenched but he dropped the gun?
Tony was seeing three women that they knew of and one of them was living with a man. Not just in a relationship.
Who owned the gun? Did they check out the guy who left the message saying he was going to use a gun?
The police said they contacted everyone they could. The friend said he was never contacted even though he knew of a specific threat. This makes me believe the police are covering their butts when they say the mom said she didn't know what kind of noise she heard. They admit she said she heard something but they want to blow it off. I believe her.
His car was impounded. The police indicated this meant he was stripped of his freedom? No. Jail strips you of your freedom and wasn't one of the things they said he was facing for the DUI. Lack of car temporarily slows you down and we don't know that his parents didn't have a car they were letting him use.

I would love to know if he had arranged a ride to work. He missed. I assume he didn't call in. (can't remember if they specified) Did he miss a ride? Could he have taken the bus? Taxi? Walked? Did his parents have a car he would have used? Don't know.

[mwcarolina]

i think that Lombardi was murdered. i just feel that the way the body was found was suspicious.

[idol]

Tony was murdered IMO. Ladies and more ladies, living at home with mom which means he had plenty of money, steady full time job and seemed to live life even it meant having more than one girlfriend at a time. No way he commited suicide.

[welshman]

This thread has so many replies, there's a good chance I'm repeating someone elses words so excuse me if I do, personally I think Tony could have killed himself and these are the reasons.

1.He came from a middle class background but didn't seem to have a great job.
2.Not only did he receive a DUI citation but his car was impounded and he possibly could have lost his licence.
3.Possibly an alcoholic.
4.No girlfriend.
5.In 1990 I'm sure many of his friends didn't live with their parents.
6.Two seperate death threats.
7.One of the girls he could get was living with someone else.
8.Anyone can kill themselves they could be rich, popular, or seem happy.

Most of the points above apply to me however I would never kill myself but I'm trying to make a point that he might have had the idea to kill himself.

Yes it could have been murder but if the murder threats were serious it could justify his suicide, if it was murder then they were either lucky or very good to manage to kill him with one bullet, if he was knocked out would there have been more signs of a struggle, i'm sure his jaw could have been broken by the gunshot and the bruises could come from his job, was his watch even broken before countless police officers walked in and wouldn't the murderer jump out of his bedroom window as soon as someone came home?

[ernmerica]

Those are viable reasons, but the thing I still can't explain was when his mom said she heard the door close then someone walking. Unless she misspoke, there was someone else in the house.

[welshman]

Those are viable reasons, but the thing I still can't explain was when his mom said she heard the door close then someone walking. Unless she misspoke, there was someone else in the house.

If she did hear someone then it's murder but if she just heard a noise then it could still be suicide.

[mwcarolina]

here's my deal, wow, i think signs point to suicide, i think it was murder due to the way it looked, now i can see why people say it's suicide and he had his reasons for being upset and depressed, but i think it was someone angry at him and killed him.

[1990 UM fan]

If he had indeed killed himself, why wasn't there any blood on him, on his bed and possibly on the wall and floor? I think he was killed elsewhere and placed in his bedroom the way he was in order to make it look like suicide when in fact it's most likely a homicide. Any updates on this case or if they're still investigating this?

[mwcarolina]

I think he was killed elsewhere and placed in his bedroom the way he was in order to make it look like suicide when in fact it's most likely a homicide. Any updates on this case or if they're still investigating this?
i dont know where he was killed, but i do think people killed him and put his body on the bed to make it look like a suicide too.