The Orange Sock Murders

[Dislimb]

I was watching Heather's compilation DVD last night and this one seemed to jump out at me more than it had before. Were there ever any other suspects in this case besides the husband or was this case ever solved? Personally, I don't think the husband had anything to do with it. It was such a small town that I don't find it hard to believe that he picked up the other woman when she was hitchhiking and gave her his business card. They even said that the "local" bar was a 30 minute drive away and everyone around there hitched rides now and then. This is just a weird case.

[Kane]

I know that the segment has a short update mentioning that Bobbie Jo Oberholtzer's husband was no longer considered a suspect, and that the detectives were looking into other things. Although it didn't elaborate, the update appeared to imply that there other people of interest.

A serial killer named Thomas Luther has been considered a possible suspect in the murders of Bobbie Jo Oberholtzer and Annette Kay Schnee. I don't think he's been ruled out, but as far as I know, there is not enough evidence to link him to either murder. But Thomas Luther isn't going anywhere; he's incarcerated for murders he committed during the 1990s.

A book has been written about him: "Monster", by Steve Jackson.

[Dislimb]

Thanks for the info, Kane. Man, you always seem to come through when asked about these old cases. I never saw the update before, but I'm glad they don't think the husband had anything to do with it. He just seemed like a straight up, laid back guy. Like the kind of cat you'd sit on the porch and drink a few tall boys with, not the type of dude to kill his wife and then some random broad for no reason.

[crystaldawn]

I didn't realize there was an update that said that. I never thought her husband was responsible either. I read a book months back that profiled some unsolved crimes and Annette and Bobbi's murders were in there. They made it sound like Bobbi's husband's brother was the one trying to implicate him. They made mention that Bobbi's husband thinks his brother had a thing for his wife and thats why he was doing it.

[Kane]

Thanks for the info, Kane. Man, you always seem to come through when asked about these old cases.

Well, not literally always, but I admittedly come through very often. Nevertheless, thank you for the compliment. ;)

[Dislimb]

They made mention that Bobbi's husband thinks his brother had a thing for his wife and thats why he was doing it.

The plot thickens! Maybe the brother had something to do with it. Perhaps his jealousy got the best of him and he snapped like a rubber band. Then again, why would the brother kill the other girl? Some of these cases just seem like they can never be solved.

[wiseguy182]

I didn't think it was the husband either. It just seems more likely that it was some stranger who murdered two women he probably didn't know than it would be a guy murdering his wife and somebody else he knew only vaguely. In other words, they could come up with a motive for Bobbi Jo's husband to kill his wife, but what would his motive be for Annette? One thing that jumped out about me in this case was that it was mentioned that hitchhiking was very common in this town at the time. I think somebody driving through the town picked up on that, and unfortunately took advantage of people's kindness and trust, twice.

[Beetlejuice69]

Henry Lee Lucas was convicted and sentenced to death (later reduced to life, now dead) for the murder of an "Orange Socks". Same one you're talking about? :confused:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/BigTMan/jrstreaktwo.jpg

[Ireneparalegal]

Henry Lee Lucas was convicted and sentenced to death (later reduced to life, now dead) for the murder of an "Orange Socks". Same one you're talking about? :confused:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/BigTMan/jrstreaktwo.jpg
That's what I last heard. Henry Lee Lucas is a supposed serial killer, who was either tied to the orange socks murder or convicted, don't remember. Is this the same murder or is there another murder called the orange socks murder?

as for the brother being a possible suspect, maybe he killed the other woman to throw the detectives off the trail. Kinda like when those people who put poison in many pill bottles...they wanted several people to get sick, maybe die, so the finger couldn't be pointed at them for killing a family member.

[Kane]

Henry Lee Lucas was convicted and sentenced to death (later reduced to life, now dead) for the murder of an "Orange Socks". Same one you're talking about? :confused:

No, that's a different case. The "Orange Socks" case for which Lucas was charged was in Texas; the woman was found dead in October 1979 (sadly, she has never been identified). The murders of Bobbie Jo and Annette occurred in Colorado in 1982.

The "Orange Socks" cases in Colorado are not connected to the Texas one. Well, maybe CINO (Connected In Name Only). :lol:

[Beetlejuice69]

I saw a pair of orange socks at SEARS last week and it reminded me of "Orange Socks". :(

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/BigTMan/orange-socks.jpg

[dynoguy88]

IMO, this segment was the scariest one Unsolved Mysteries ever featured.

Yes, Thomas Luther has long since been considered a suspect in these murders. Unsolved Mysteries never mentioned him but I guess they wanted to keep it that way at the time. I've read the book "Monster" and here are some interesting facts concerning Luther and Oberholtzer/Schnee murders. -

*Both Bobbie and Annette matched the physical descriptions of ALL of Luther's other victims - Attractive, petite females with shoulder length hair.

*Annette's body wasn't found until 6 months after her murder. While Luther was in jail for the assault on a girl named Mary Brown (a woman hitch hiker he attacked a month after the Schnee/Oberhotlzer murders) he saw a news segment showing Annette's picture - he stared at the picture with this awful glare and said, "They'll never find that b*tch."

*Also while he was in jail for the assualt on Mary Brown, Luther bragged to other inmates that he had killed two other women out in the woods.

*Luther's live in girlfriend stated that he was gone the entire evening of the murders and didn't come home until very late that night.

*Luther called off of work the day before and the day after the murders but he told police that he worked both days.

Back in 1982, EVERYONE in that area (women AND men) hitchhiked. Everyone got to know each other. Murders were extremely rare for that area and time period. The murders threw Summit County, and particularly Breckenridge, into a panic.

Here is a passage from the book -

Breckenridge was still the sort of town where people didn't bother to lock their doors. Anybody who had lived there more than a couple of months knew everybody else, and they watched out for each other. Even strangers were greeted warmly, so long as they didn't act too much like the monied snobs in Vail or Aspen.

The only violent crime was apt to be the heat of passion sort of thing - friends who got in an argument after having a little too much to drink and took a few swings. A night in the pokey and they were friends again by morning. There was the occasional robbery of a gas station or conveniance store, usually by some stranger passing through. But people in these parts couldn't remember the last time there'd been a murder so near Breckenridge until Bobby Jo Oberholtzer (and eventually Annette Schnee).

The dissappearence and murders of the two women changed the town, forever. It would never again be as innocent and trusting. Residents went out and bought guns for protection, something nobody would have imagined before the murders.

The difference in the atmosphere seems pretty different than before. Here is another passage taken from the book that also makes Luther look pretty guilty -

Detectives Richard Eaton and Charlie McCormick keep Luther on the short lists of suspects and follow each lead as it appears. They have tried to trace a report that an airline stewardess in California, who sold Luther the truck he was driving in 1982 when he assaulted Mary Brown, was later found beaten to death. But so far, it remains a rumor.

Initially, Eaton was troubled that Bobby and Annette were executed with a gun, while Luther attacked his other known victims with a hammer and his hands. But then Luther was convicted of shooting Cher Elder to death in 1993.

Breckenridge is no longer a stranger to murders and other violent crime. It keeps Eaton too busy to devote much time to the murders of Bobby and Annette. But he still pulls over whenever he reaches the summit of Hoosier Pass and also pauses by the small white cross beside a stream if other matters take him to Alma. "No one stops being a suspect until I got the guy who did it," he says.

Although they're not his cases and he keeps a discreet distance, Richardson remains convinced that Oberholtzer and Schnee are Luther's work. He points out that the murders, rare for the area back then, stopped when Luther was arrested.

There are other factors that continue to point the finger at Luther for the murders. He wasn't working the day of or after the murders yet he told investigators that he was. He drove a truck similar to the truck the hitchhiking Breckenridge couple insisted having seen Bobby in the night she hitched a ride home. And by his own accounts, he had access to several guns.


Here is a good link involving the case. It's got plenty of details, pictures, maps and even has pictures of the women's belongings including the orange socks.....

http://www.Rockymountaincoldcase.com

[Dislimb]

Wow, just wow. That's an excellent site! Thanks for the info! :)

[dynoguy88]

Wow, just wow. That's an excellent site! Thanks for the info! :)

Yes, it is a very good site. And I didn't notice until now the updated link (posted just last week) about the new TV program "Sensing Murder" on the Discovery Channel where this case will be featured later this year. We'll have to keep our heads up. Wouldn't want to miss it.

http://parkbull.com/newsextra/filmingcoldcase050706.html

[KKT22603]

I'm researching the 'Orange Socks' case in Texas. Anyone have any info on that, or know where I might find some info on it? I'm looking everywhere; not much investigation done on it, especially on trying to ID the woman. Anyone?

[Dandy]

Try the Doe Network: Case File 33UFTX. Hope this helps.

[Dislimb]

Old threads are fun to remember a few years afterward. I had forgotten how hot Annette Schnee was. She was a real "stormbringer" if I've ever seen one!

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Oh, Dislimb.... you slay me. :)

[Dislimb]

Oh, Dislimb.... you slay me. :)

If I "literally" slayed you then who would defend me when I was on trial for said slaying, my dear? ;)

[lilmissd]

I watched the show "Sensing Murder" and I do agree with them when they said that they think these 2 women were killed by 2 different killers! I agree. I think they were operating together to prey on women. They were collaborating with each other, which is why the 2 women disappeard on the same day only within a few hours of each other. It's more than likely that one killer would not have the time to do this. They were probably on the lookout for women who were alone and looked vulnerable; they were easy prey for guys like that. It didn't hurt that the women were attractive either; but I do think that they were definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time and paid the price for it, sad!

[dynoguy88]

I watched the show "Sensing Murder" and I do agree with them when they said that they think these 2 women were killed by 2 different killers! I agree. I think they were operating together to prey on women. They were collaborating with each other, which is why the 2 women disappeard on the same day only within a few hours of each other. It's more than likely that one killer would not have the time to do this. They were probably on the lookout for women who were alone and looked vulnerable; they were easy prey for guys like that. It didn't hurt that the women were attractive either; but I do think that they were definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time and paid the price for it, sad!

I remember watching the "Sensing Murder" special when it originally aired and I was dumbstruck over how accurate the psychics were in their notes compared to the Unsolved Mysteries segment, aritcles and book I have read on the case.

As I recall, the psychics said they thought two different men committed these murders, however BOTH of them were present for the murder of Annette. They suspected the friend that helped dump Annette's body got some sick high over the murder and wanted to do it himself...so he went out alone, found Bobbi and killed her.

The psychics believed the way in which the women were killed were pretty close to what we saw in the Unsolved Mysteries segment except for a few differences in Annette's case. In the UM segment, investigators speculated that she was driven down that dead end road, raped and murdered in that same area. However, the psychics saw in their visions Annette being driven to a different location and being raped inside a car. Then she dressed again in a hurry (her shirt was on inside out and one of her socks was in her jacket pocket) and was let go for some reason only to be shot. The men then put Annette's body in the trunk of the car, drove out to the creek and dumped her body where it would be found 6 months later.

Bobbi's death was spot in every detail with what we saw in the UM segment. Her attacker picked her up, drove her about 10 miles, attempted to rape her by binding her wrist, she fought him off and escaped out of the van running about 100 feet down the road. The killer followed her in his van and When he stopped his vehicle, Bobbi turned and ran off the road (probably in an attempt to hide behind some trees) and that was when she was shot in the back and killed.

One more detail in regards to Bobbi's killer, the psychics said she knew her killer and he had come on to her before when she had always wished he would just go away.

Even all these years later, this case still gives me the creeps.

[StackTime]

I have no idea why, but the Speed Limit 50 sign really freaks me out in the segment

[mozartpc27]

I have no idea why, but the Speed Limit 50 sign really freaks me out in the segment

?

[slasherman]

I watched the show "Sensing Murder" and I do agree with them when they said that they think these 2 women were killed by 2 different killers!
No one killer.
I think many times psychics destroys more than they help in a case. As to why the psychics is "spot on" many times is because they know the case. It is simply not believable that they did not have a lot of information on this case and all other cases on Sensing Murder. These are well know cases and a psychic are more interested in murder cases than a average person. They lie when they say that they know nothing about the cases. And this lie tells me that these people are not helping, on the contrary they are confusing and damaging the investigation. I have seen a lot of the episodes of Sensing Murder and not one new thing have "they" come up with. Not a single thing. What is the name of the killer, where is the licenses plate number, where does the killer live. Just bull**** like: I'm inside the head of the killer now, I can feel the victims pain, she is okey where she is now(talking to the victims parents).
But it is always good to have a case on the tv anyway. But I don't understand the concept of these programs: The lesser you know the better. This is of course bull****. The more information you have even if you are so called a psychic the better. And stop pretending you know nothing because you wanna impress with your psychic ability's; Deb Webber, Sue Nicholson, Kelvin Cruickshank and the rest.

And now to the Thomas Edward Luther speculation. It's not him ! Get that!
“We were sure it was Luther,” McCormick said. But there wasn’t enough evidence to take the case to trial. No physical evidence tied him to the murder scenes, and when investigators interviewed him, he denied involvement.
Then in 1993, Luther was charged with the murder of Cher Elder, who was shot in the head and dumped. Luther had cut off her ring finger and lips because she threatened to expose an illegal sports-card ring connected to him.

Thomas Edward Luther

The following year, Luther was convicted in West Virginia in a the rape of a 30-year-old Virginia woman. In each of Luther’s convictions, he attacked women who resembled his mother, who abused him, prosecutors have said.

At about the same time, the blood on Oberholtzer’s wool glove that was found on the other side of a barbed wire fence along U.S. 285 was tested for DNA. Investigators had long believed that it was her blood because it was her blood type. But the DNA was that of a man.
“Whoever’s blood it is has a lot of explaining to do,” McCormick said. “We’re 99 percent sure it’s the blood of the killer.”
McCormick said investigators were convinced that the blood would link Luther to the crime and be the key evidence leading to his conviction. But his DNA did not match.

One theory is that Luther was with someone that night and that the blood is that of an accomplice, McCormick said. But when they tested the DNA of a friend of Luther’s from Vermont who had been with Luther in Colorado, there was no match, he said.
Luther remains a suspect, but in all likelihood, the culprit is someone else, McCormick said.
Jeff Oberholtzer’s blood was tested and also did not match. Several other suspects have been tested and excluded.

But another suspect, Tracy Petrocelli, on death row in Nevada after killing a man during a cross-country spree with stops in Colorado, continues to be a suspect, even though his blood didn’t match, either.
So now that he is out of question. Lets talk about the case ;)

[MegtheEgg86]

I have no idea why, but the Speed Limit 50 sign really freaks me out in the segment

I get you, bro.

One more detail in regards to Bobbi's killer, the psychics said she knew her killer and he had come on to her before when she had always wished he would just go away.

I haven't seen the Sensing Murder episode, but I have read that Jeff Oberholtzer was sure his wife wouldn't have taken a ride from someone she didn't know, especially at night--she wasn't exactly fond of hitching, but had no choice as Jeff needed their only vehicle for work. He believed that whoever killed her was a friend or acquaintance; someone she trusted enough not to bother with calling Jeff and asking him to come pick her up.

The personalities of the two women are interesting elements. Bobbi has been described as "scrappy", outspoken, a very strong personality. Annette was somewhat docile, quiet, and introspective. Of the two, Bobbi would've been far more likely to fight against her attacker (evidence of which was found on Bobbi's wool glove and the several Kleenexs found with her backpack--the blood was not hers, but almost certainly the assailant's; authorities believe she may have popped him in the nose at some point during the struggle). I think her killer knew her--and this particular nuance of her personality--for two reasons:

1. The killer DID drive the correct route towards Bobbi's Alma home from Breckenridge with no deviations or detours. Perhaps he believed doing so would immediately arouse his passenger's suspicion and compel her to cause an unmanageable ruckus. That is why he waited until he got to Hoosier Pass before attacking her--it's not an uncommon place to find a parked vehicle, but obscure enough at that time of night, away from city lights, traffic, and activity.

2. The killer attempted to restrain her with flex-cuffs, something he did not do during the attack on Annette. He knew she would fight.


There is no way of knowing exactly where Annette was killed. If she was indeed murdered where she was found near the dead-end road off CO HWY 9, she was driven a pretty fair distance from her home in Blue River--past the Oberholtzer home, in fact. She would've certainly known she was in danger well before she was murdered. It seems Annette did not resist in an attempt to survive, and perhaps this is why her attacker felt he could take more liberties with her. Possibly he was acquainted with her as well. Perhaps he was simply banking on the debilitating fear he'd strike in her or just the stereotype that women are passive.

As a sidenote, Annette seems to have a lot of people in her story that are yet to be identified--the unknown woman she was talking to that day at The Drug Store in Breckenridge shortly before she set to hitch home, and an unidentified man whose photo was found with her belongings:

http://www.rockymountaincoldcase.com/images/mysterywoman50.jpg

http://www.rockymountaincoldcase.com/images/schneeunknownphoto.jpg

[Mastermind]

2. The killer attempted to restrain her with flex-cuffs, something he did not do during the attack on Annette. He knew she would fight.

Really, he used flex-cuffs? How common are they among non-law enforcement back then?

I assume they could be bough in any army/navy store? no?

[MegtheEgg86]

Really, he used flex-cuffs? How common are they among non-law enforcement back then?

I assume they could be bough in any army/navy store? no?

I stand corrected. Turns out they were cable ties, the plastic zip ties used to bundle electronic wires together.

That provides a whole other interesting element altogether. One would have to at least know of cable ties, and where to go for them. I can't imagine those being readily available at your average discount store, especially in Alma. Perhaps an electronics store or repair shop (or someone's place of employment) in a bigger city, like Breckenridge or Denver.

[MegtheEgg86]

From COLD CASE ARREST STIRS HOPE FOR LOCAL INVESTIGATORS, Park County Bulletin NewsExtra (2 FEB 2008):


Can You Help Investigators?
Do you have any recollection of
or information on:

Old Colorado License Plate ZD-25
Anyone with any information or tips on possible owner of old local license plate is asked to contact investigators
(see image below)

Former Placer Valley residents sought Note: These individuals are sought for possible information only and not as suspects..
Do you remember two brothers who rented a house in Placer Valley known as the Chicken Coop? (2191 Park County Road 6 near Alma)
Other information on the brothers:
-Employed by NORDIC PLUMBING, a 1980s local business owned and operated by Fairplay resident, Brian Nordby
-They may have been from Kentucky or Tennessee.
-The younger brother may have just married at the time and had a small infant child
-They drove a gray Chevrolet or Dodge van


(Information released by Investigators)


See Contact Information Bottom of Page

http://parkbull.com/newsextra/080202dnadatabase.html

[kadrmas15]

Yes Megtheegg, very interesting. Cable ties. I would imagine that the killer's occupation also would involve something that used cable ties. Clearly he was familiar with them and how to use them to restrain someone. I think the odds are pretty good that Bobbie and Annette were killed by the same person or persons. I am not sure if it was one man or a two man team that did these killings.

I will say though, regardless of who did it, assuming it was the same person or persons that did this, they were pretty bold to do these killings on the same night. That tells me they were experienced in what they were doing. An inexperienced killer would not do two killings on the same night like this because frankly he would not know what to expect. So that tells me these were not the first and probably not the last killings this guy did.

I also find it interesting and I think there is a reasonable chance that at least Bobbi Oberholtzer knew who this killer was or at least had met him before. Clearly he knew where she lived, in that case he went the way of her home, whereas in Annette's case he went in a completely opposite direction. This leads me to believe that while the killer knew Bobbi Oberholtzer before this happened, he did not know Annette. That photo that Annette had of that unidentified man is interesting. Judging by his haircut he looks like he was in the military at the time the photo was taken. Either that or he was perhaps even a state prisoner as at least at that time it was not uncommon for prisoners to be required to have haircuts like that depending on what state they were in.

[MegtheEgg86]

Yes Megtheegg, very interesting. Cable ties. I would imagine that the killer's occupation also would involve something that used cable ties. Clearly he was familiar with them and how to use them to restrain someone. I think the odds are pretty good that Bobbie and Annette were killed by the same person or persons. I am not sure if it was one man or a two man team that did these killings.

I will say though, regardless of who did it, assuming it was the same person or persons that did this, they were pretty bold to do these killings on the same night. That tells me they were experienced in what they were doing. An inexperienced killer would not do two killings on the same night like this because frankly he would not know what to expect. So that tells me these were not the first and probably not the last killings this guy did.

I agree. It was brazen to commit two murders on the same night, and I too think whomever did this had certainly done it before--maybe in the same area, perhaps not. I get a weird feeling I can't quite put my finger on that leads me to believe the individual(s) had lived in the Breckenridge/general vicinity of South Park area for a good while, but was/were not originally from that area. And aren't in that area anymore.

I also find it interesting and I think there is a reasonable chance that at least Bobbi Oberholtzer knew who this killer was or at least had met him before. Clearly he knew where she lived, in that case he went the way of her home, whereas in Annette's case he went in a completely opposite direction. This leads me to believe that while the killer knew Bobbi Oberholtzer before this happened, he did not know Annette. That photo that Annette had of that unidentified man is interesting. Judging by his haircut he looks like he was in the military at the time the photo was taken. Either that or he was perhaps even a state prisoner as at least at that time it was not uncommon for prisoners to be required to have haircuts like that depending on what state they were in.

That's exactly what I thought about the photo. It's poor quality, but the clothing he's wearing reminds me of an enlisted Navy uniform--or a prisoner's attire. His hairstyle is a stark contrast to the longish looks of the early '80s worn by many men--facial hair was also fashionable then; this man is clean-shaven. In fact, I contacted rockymountaincoldcase.com and mentioned that. The individual who replied agreed and allowed to me that absolutely no one with ANY ties whatsover to Annette thus far has been able to provide even an idea of who the man may be--including her family in Iowa. (The people at rockymountaincoldcase.com are great, by the way. They replied to my message within 24 hours and are very friendly.)

Is it just me, or does his right eye look impaired in some way? It almost looks like someone's socked him, but there's not any intelligible significant bruising surrounding the eye that I can see.

[dynoguy88]

Unfortunately, the locations of the murders made them pretty easy to get away with which makes me think they were not too brazen.

These crimes took place out in the wilderness, in the middle of nowhere on a bitterly cold night where temperatures reached zero degrees. The chances of any witnesses coming by were slim to none. Nobody would hear the gun shots. Heck, you could have fired a dozen cannons off at the same time and nobody would have heard a thing.

I guess that's another thing that always creeped me out about this case. That helpless feeling both women must have felt. There's nobody within miles to hear their screams for help and there was no place for them to hide. Bobbie tried to escape with hopes of hiding in the trees about 200 yards from the scenic overlook. But even if she had made it to the trees, she still would have had to run through deep snow banks once she got off the road. Have you ever tried sprinting through deep snow? You're not going to outrun a bullet.

[lilmissd]

dynoguy88-you bring up some good points here. From the feeling I get about the whole case even though Annette was killed first, her body was found last. 6 months after the murders. This leads me to believe from the location that it was found, that the killer(s) had more time with her and found a secluded spot,because they didn't want her body to be found! That is why it was in such a secluded spot, off the beaten trail. With Bobbie, it was different, they were in a hurry to leave the area, so they just shot her and left her where she lay. They didn't care if/where HER body was found. And they got rid of the back packs that the women were wearing in totally different locations, they just dumped them off and ran. I think they seperated the womens' bodies from the backpacks to throw the cops off the trail. This case has always bothered me for years. I hope one day that it is solved!

[Mastermind]

This crime has to be serial in nature. Unless he's in jail or dead, I find i hard to believe that this guy only committed this act twice.

1.One thing that has occured to me is the possibility that this killer is more a rapist than a murderer. It could be only a coincidence that he killed both women because they resisted his advances.

2. This guy has to be somewhat local to the area if he knows that hitchiking was a common practice around those parts. Though I think this incident happened around the tail end of the "hitchiking is safe!" period of Americana.

[mattc]

I also think that this was a serial type of killing. It has all the signs of a sadistic, psychopathic type of slaying. In fact, I looked up Ted Bundy to see what date he was arrested, b/c I remember that he killed someone in Colorado, and wondered if he was in the area at the time; turns out he was arrested a few years before the orange sock murders.

I also agree that this was one of the scariest segments ever featured, especially because the feeling of horror was so dramatic and intense; I can't even imagine how horrible and debilitating Bobbie Jo and Annette must have felt. Really sad case.

I am really surprised that this case has not been solved, honestly, because with the DNA evidence, and the fact that this person most likely has killed before/after (or at least committed other crimes), it would seem that a match would have turned up by now. Perhaps the killer is dead. One last thing, the whole idea that the killer drove bobby in the direction of her house, it doesn't necessarily mean she knew him, as she would have told him where she lived immediately after getting in the car... he might have been heading in that direction to no arose suspicion.

I was just thinking, it seems possible that he drove her past her own house before committing the murders, which I find very very creepy.. talk about feeling completely helpless.

I really hope this case is solved, b/c that bastard(s) needs to be off the streets.

[Mastermind]

Regarding the crime of rape:

1. There are a lot of police departments that don't treat rape the same way as other departments. Some police departments don;t even put rape on their statistics for the year!. It's not a given that a rape case in that area is treated with as strongly as a case.

2. Many rapes are never reported. Victims embarassed, afraid, scared, etc..

The point I'm making is their could be a serial rapist at work without anyone knowing.

Somewhere out there is another crime that can be linked to these two.:mad:

[dynoguy88]

I also think that this was a serial type of killing. It has all the signs of a sadistic, psychopathic type of slaying. In fact, I looked up Ted Bundy to see what date he was arrested, b/c I remember that he killed someone in Colorado, and wondered if he was in the area at the time; turns out he was arrested a few years before the orange sock murders.

The woman Ted Bundy killed in Colorado was named Caryn Campbell. She was from my city of Dearborn, MI. My parents even went to her funeral. My family has known Caryn's family for over 40 years. She was vacationing in Colorado with her fiance and his two children at the time. The four of them left their hotel room and went downstairs to the swimming pool. As soon as they reached the swimming pool, Caryn realized she forgot her magazine in their room. So she left to get it and she never returned. The next day, her body was found just off the road about 2 miles from the hotel.

It was case of extremely bad timing. Some time between leaving the pool and getting upstairs to the hotel room, she met up with Ted Bundy. Bundy's usual act was to fake having a broken leg while hobbling along on crutches and trying to carry a set of books or a few bags. Any time he saw a young woman alone anywhere near him, he would deliberately drop his things so the woman would pick them up and while feeling sorry for him, help him carry his things out to his van. Once they reached the van, he would knock the woman out (usually with a crowbar), throw her inside the van, drive away and then rape and kill her. That's what ended up happening with Caryn.

This happened in 1975 which was 7 years before Bobbie Oberholzter and Annette Schnee were murdered outside Breckenridge. Like you said, Bundy was already in prison by then. But even so, the orange sock killings never seemed like the work of someone as demented as Ted Bundy. They took place out in the middle of nowhere. Whoever killed these women knew the perfect place to strike and had knowledge of all the country roads where he wouldn't be found. That's why I always thought the killer might have been a local guy and not just some psycho driving through the area.

[leafygreens]

Any time he saw a young woman alone anywhere near him, he would deliberately drop his things so the woman would pick them up and while feeling sorry for him, help him carry his things out to his van. Once they reached the van, he would knock the woman out (usually with a crowbar), throw her inside the van, drive away and then rape and kill her. That's what ended up happening with Caryn.

Visions of Silence of the Lambs! :eek: I know it was based off of Ted Bundy but it's just creepy to see it on screen, what ended up happening to these women.

[SageSlowdive]

So, really no one suspects the husband, in the least?

[MissFit29]

So, really no one suspects the husband, in the least?

I never have suspected Jeff Oberholtzer. There wasn't any motive presented. Plus, Annette was murdered first - making it more unlikely, IMO.

[WishfulDreamer]

Wasn't the husband exonerated by way of DNA evidence? I never thought he was guilty, from the beginning. I found him to be quite sincere and when he spoke about his wife. He seemed like a good guy.

[WishfulDreamer]

Sorry for the doublepost. ^

[Mastermind]

So, really no one suspects the husband, in the least?

The cops had only one lead/piece of evidence. Which was that Jeff Oberholtzer knew both women and had his card in Annette Schnee's car.

IMHO, this was enough to list jeff as being a suspect in the murders. But far from enough to arrest him.

The DNA did not match Jeff Oberholtzer.

If you list the evidence in you yellow pad, you have 1 plus and 1 negative check mark on Jeff Oberholtzer. They both negate each other.

Unless new evidence comes to light against Jeff...I see no reason why he should be pursued anymore than another suspect?

There wasn't any motive presented.
Considering this is a potential serial killing..lack of motive isn;t an issue here. Psychosis requires no motive

[dynoguy88]

Jeff Oberholzter was considered the main suspect for about a decade but was finally ruled out when his DNA didn't match the blood found on Bobbie's mitten. He also put himself in a better light with police during the time frame that Annette was missing when he saw her picture in the newspaper and came forward and told them that he had picked Annette up once while she was hitchhiking and had given her his business card. That would have been hard for him to explain once Annette's body was found with his business card in her backpack had he continued pleading ignorance.

"Monster" by Steve Jackson points out many details about this case that seem to rule Jeff out as a suspect as well. The day of Bobbie's death actually started out wonderfully for her when she arrived at work that morning and found out she was getting a substantial pay raise. After work, she called Jeff at around 6:00 p.m. and told him she was going to the village pub with two of her co-workers to celebrate. Those two friends would drive her home afterwards. An hour and half later, it was clear that Bobbie's friends wanted to make a night out of this while Bobbie just wanted to go home. So she told her friends that she would hitchhike home. She left the bar around 7:30 p.m.

Annette, on the other hand, had vanished hours earlier. She was last seen in Breckenridge at 4:30 p.m. at a pharmacy in the company of a mysterious dark haired woman. She bought one pack of cigarettes and a prescription because she had not been feeling well that day. Both women left the pharmacy together making small talk. Annette set off to hitchhike home. She had to get home to change into her work clothes because she worked at a bar in the evenings. She never made it home and her uniform was neatly laid out on her bed when police later investigated.

Finally, Jeff has an alibi for that evening. Unsolved Mysteries brought it up but the book goes into more detail. Shortly before 7:00 p.m., a friend of Jeff's named Joe Urban stopped by for a visit. The two men then went to a nearby gas station and got a can of gas for Joe’s truck. From there, they went to a liquor store and bought a six pack of beer. (Receipts and workers at the two locations confirmed seeing them.) After leaving the liquor store, the two men returned to Jeff’s house where they drank beer and watched television for an hour. Joe then left at 8:00 p.m.

If you combine these 3 angles together in a timeline, it would have been impossible for Jeff to commit these murders. If Jeff was involved, he would have had to have abducted Annette in Breckenridge some time after 4:30, driven back over Hoosier Pass to the area around Sacramento Creek and killed her. Somewhere during that time, he would have forced her to undress, raped her, and then let her dress again. All by 6:00, when he was home to receive his wife’s telephone call.

After that, he would have had to calmly shovel snow until Joe Urban arrived shortly before 7:00, gone to the gas station, a liquor store and back home to drink beer and watch TV until 8:00. Then, only after his friend left, could he have driven to Breckenridge, located his wife in the darkness, driven her to the Hoosier Pass summit and finally murdered her. It all seems very unlikely.

[SageSlowdive]

I wasn't necessarily saying he was guilty, but I find it surprising no one is still accusing him.

[mwcarolina]

I wasn't necessarily saying he was guilty, but I find it surprising no one is still accusing him
he was cleared for reasons i dont know about, but i didn't suspect him much anyway. I think it's someone who they hitched rides with, thought they could trust, couldn't.

[SageSlowdive]

Hmmm...after reading a little bit, I wonder if there was a female accomplice who sort of lured the women in...anyone feeling this?

[Guardian]

How so? Just to put them at ease? That isn't the general MO of a serial killer/rapist. Rarely would there be an accomplice much less a woman accomplice. Not impossible I suppose, just doesn't seem likely.

[Hambone2421]

How so? Just to put them at ease? That isn't the general MO of a serial killer/rapist. Rarely would there be an accomplice much less a woman accomplice. Not impossible I suppose, just doesn't seem likely.

I agree. Sure,there are people out there that would feel reassured if a woman was there but there are also people who wouldn't think twice about it. The people that wouldn't think twice are the ones that were targeted and killed, most likely.

[dynoguy88]

This took place in 1982. A very different time. Homicides were nonexistent in the area. Everyone knew each other. Nobody locked their doors and hitchhiking was done by the majority of the public who didn't have a car. It was second nature to get rides with strangers. Again, this was just a very different time.

It's possible Annette may have been a little too trusting with who she hitched a ride with. She was younger, just 21 years old, and probably easier to subdue. Bobbie was a little older, 29 years old, married and by all accounts, was very scrappy in nature. Despite her small size, if you cornered her, she wouldn't go down without a fight. And that was proven the night she was killed. She used her king ring to stab her attacker and he bled all over her mittens.

[SageSlowdive]

Uh, Annette was last seen with an unknown female, no one had even seen....did everyone forget this?

[lilmissd]

Yes. That is a well known fact. But according to eyewitness statements Annette talked to the woman who reminded her to buy cigarettes. She seemed to be friendly with her and knew her, and the authorities believe that this woman had nothing to do with her disapperance/murder, they just want her for questioning as to what she may have seen that day.

[dynoguy88]

Yes. That is a well known fact. But according to eyewitness statements Annette talked to the woman who reminded her to buy cigarettes. She seemed to be friendly with her and knew her, and the authorities believe that this woman had nothing to do with her disapperance/murder, they just want her for questioning as to what she may have seen that day.

Exactly. Although I do find it pretty weird that here it is 28 years later and police STILL have no idea who this woman is. She knew Annette well enough to know what brand of cigarettes she smoked yet her identity remains a mystery even after all these years.

[Mastermind]

Hmmm...after reading a little bit, I wonder if there was a female accomplice who sort of lured the women in...anyone feeling this?

1. I don;t know that the killer necessarily has to use a lure. Apparently women were already comfortable hitching rides with strange men in the area. Not like the killer was doing anything out of the ordinary.

2. I would argue a lure might hurt his chances. Women might think that he is some sort of swinger looking for a threesome.

[slasherman]

Women might think that he is some sort of swinger looking for a threesome.
Don't bring your personal life into this... ;)

Anyway my theory is still:
- One killer
- Two killings because the first rape attempt failed
- The killer probably a person on vacation in the area
- Probably not a serial killer

I cannot see why people think this killer is a sadistic killer and a serial killer. There is no sign of sadistic behavior and the killings seems more like a act of incidental panic. When he had killed the first one he had nothing to lose by killing the second. This is often seen when a person is on a rampage.

[Mastermind]

Anyway my theory is still:
- One killer
- Two killings because the first rape attempt failed
- The killer probably a person on vacation in the area
- Probably not a serial killer

He may be a serial rapist, though.

Not all rapes get reported.

There is no sign of sadistic behavior and the killings seems more like a act of incidental panic

Rape isn't sadistic, enough?

[Hambone2421]

Don't bring your personal life into this... ;)

Anyway my theory is still:
- One killer
- Two killings because the first rape attempt failed
- The killer probably a person on vacation in the area
- Probably not a serial killer

I cannot see why people think this killer is a sadistic killer and a serial killer. There is no sign of sadistic behavior and the killings seems more like a act of incidental panic. When he had killed the first one he had nothing to lose by killing the second. This is often seen when a person is on a rampage.

The fact that the killer killed someone is sadistic enough for me, but I see your point.

I agree though that it wasn't a serial killer, but more of a spree killer. If more murders are confirmed to be from this person, then I would agree that it is a serial killer.

[slasherman]

Rape isn't sadistic, enough?
Rape has nothing to do with sadism but a rapist can be a sadist. It's a big difference.
Luckily very few people are sadists...

[Mastermind]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
Rape isn't sadistic, enough?
Rape has nothing to do with sadism but a rapist can be a sadist. It's a big difference.
Luckily very few people are sadists...

People use rape to torture and humiliate people all the time.

[MegtheEgg86]

The DA responsible for the case in Colorado was seeking information a while back on a "couple of brothers" who owned a van and lived in the area at the time. What does everyone think of the possibility that two different men launched attacks on Annette and Bobbie Jo?

[slasherman]

The DA responsible for the case in Colorado was seeking information a while back on a "couple of brothers" who owned a van and lived in the area at the time. What does everyone think of the possibility that two different men launched attacks on Annette and Bobbie Jo?
The sock pretty much dismisses that possibility. They where also shot by the same gun if I remember correctly....

[MegtheEgg86]

The sock pretty much dismisses that possibility. They where also shot by the same gun if I remember correctly....

Not if they're brothers and use the same vehicle to commit their separate crimes. The socks belonged to Annette Schnee. She was, LE has theorized, murdered first. In her haste, she failed to replace one of the orange socks, leaving it in the van. It later comes out as Bobbie Jo tries to escape. The socks don't discount the theory at all. I guess I should've been a bit clearer there.

[dynoguy88]

I don't think we know for sure that the orange socks were Annette's. She was already wearing longer white and red striped socks when she hitched the ride out of Breckenridge. After she was raped, she was allowed to get dressed but couldn't find one of her white socks (it was later found in her coat pocket once her body was found.)

http://www.rockymountaincoldcase.com/images/schnee_1_rightbootsock50.jpg

Those orange socks were little booties. Certainly not the kind of socks you'd wear in that part of Colorado where the Winter temperature reaches below zero more often than not.

I think the socks might have belonged to the girlfriend or wife of the killer and they happened to be in the van that night.

[MegtheEgg86]

Thanks, dynoguy. I was always under the impression that they were hers as she put one on, but I suppose it never occured to me that the orange socks could've been there before Annette ever got in the vehicle.

That photograph is chilling. All of the evidence photos from this case are, really. :(

[slasherman]

Not if they're brothers and use the same vehicle to commit their separate crimes. The socks belonged to Annette Schnee. She was, LE has theorized, murdered first. In her haste, she failed to replace one of the orange socks, leaving it in the van. It later comes out as Bobbie Jo tries to escape. The socks don't discount the theory at all. I guess I should've been a bit clearer there.
So do you mean both brothers were in the Van or that they worked separately? If so where was the other brother when he was not in the Van?
Either way that theory don't seem plausible.

[MegtheEgg86]

So do you mean both brothers were in the Van or that they worked separately? If so where was the other brother when he was not in the Van?
Either way that theory don't seem plausible.

It's not that implausible at all.

What I mean is, one brother went out and killed Annette--alone, by himself, with no one accompanying him. Where the other brother was during that time is irrelevant. Later, the other brother takes the van--alone, by himself, with no one accompanying him. He kills Bobbie Jo. The premise, as it goes, was that the brothers had committed similar crimes, together as well as separately. When the first brother came home and told the second brother what had transpired earlier, it excited and compelled him to commit a crime of his own.

Check out the "Can You Help Investigators?" box:

http://parkbull.com/newsextra/080202dnadatabase.html

[mwcarolina]

Not if they're brothers and use the same vehicle to commit their separate crimes.
are the crimes separated by DNA?? If not, unless they are twin brothers, it's likely one man did this.
She was, LE has theorized, murdered first. In her haste, she failed to replace one of the orange socks, leaving it in the van.
it showed in the segment that she couldnt find her own sock and put on an orange booty.
It later comes out as Bobbie Jo tries to escape. The socks don't discount the theory at all.
yep, Bobby kicked the sock out, As for the theory, you are right, the socks dont discount your theory, i could agree with you theory IF i knew DNA evidence shows that two men did this. If it shows it, then it could be two brothers.
It's not that implausible at all.
your right, it's not, it could happen.

What I mean is, one brother went out and killed Annette--alone, by himself, with no one accompanying him. Where the other brother was during that time is irrelevant. Later, the other brother takes the van--alone, by himself, with no one accompanying him. He kills Bobbie Jo. The premise, as it goes, was that the brothers had committed similar crimes, together as well as separately. When the first brother came home and told the second brother what had transpired earlier, it excited and compelled him to commit a crime of his own.
if i hear that this case has two cases sepearted by DNA, i could buy into this theory, if not, then i think the case could be like this. Two men were together, one was dropped off, while the other one was out looking for victims, but that's only if we find out that both women were killed by the same man.

[Drakken]

People use rape to torture and humiliate people all the time.

There's a big difference between the two: intent.

Non-sadistic rapists use rape to overpower women and use them for sexual gratification and dominance. They overwhelm the woman, rape her, then let her go/kill her.

Sexual sadists use rape as one of the tools for the explicit aim to inflict pain and humiliate the victim for the sexual pleasure of it. What's important is not the power, nor the sex, but pain and suffering as sexual gratification. The sadist will seek to make it last in time until he has had his kicks, then he will let her go/kill her if she hasn't already died of shock or her wounds.

One cannot be a sexual sadist if he or she doesn't derive sexual pleasure from the suffering inflicted on others. It's how they frame it.

[dynoguy88]

As many of you know, the Oberholtzer/Schnee murder case was featured on a short lived television program called "Sensing Murder" in 2006. I was able to buy all the episodes on DVD from Amazon.com for just $9.00.

I've uploaded the entire episode to the forbidden site if anyone wants to watch it. Just send me a pm and I'll give you the links which have 3 parts.

Some things I liked about this special:

*The police detectives and psychics go to the exact locations of where the women's bodies were found. So you get to see what the surrounding area looks like during the daytime. It's beautiful up in the mountains but very remote.

*One of the psychics takes a detective to the area she believes Annette was raped and murdered. It's a rock quarry on private property about 3 miles from the creek where her body was found.

*A couple people from the Unsolved Mysteries segment that you might recognize although they have obviously aged; Jeff Oberholtzer and Det. Jim Hardtke are interviewed again.

*Tons and tons of pictures of Bobbie and Annette. Both women really were beautiful.

*Plenty of crime scene photographs and pictures of evidence.

*The psychics trace the women's final moments extremely accurately and add some interesting tidbits of what they feel motivated the crimes.

Again, just send me a note if you would like to watch this and I'll pass the links along to you.

[alistaircrane]

How so? Just to put them at ease? That isn't the general MO of a serial killer/rapist. Rarely would there be an accomplice much less a woman accomplice. Not impossible I suppose, just doesn't seem likely.

I guess you haven't heard of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka...

[88keys]

He said it was unlikely, not impossible. Bernardo/Homolka is kind of a rare, extreme case.

[mwcarolina]

As many of you know, the Oberholtzer/Schnee murder case was featured on a short lived television program called "Sensing Murder" in 2006.
hmm..didnt know that, i hope they put this case on another show so we can find out other information.

[QUOTE=dynoguy88]Some things I liked about this special:

*The police detectives and psychics go to the exact locations of where the women's bodies were found. So you get to see what the surrounding area looks like during the daytime. It's beautiful up in the mountains but very remote.
hmmm....interesting.

*One of the psychics takes a detective to the area she believes Annette was raped and murdered. It's a rock quarry on private property about 3 miles from the creek where her body was found.
from the segment, it showed her being raped in a van, i dont know where it was, but hopefully they find the guy or guys who did this.

*A couple people from the Unsolved Mysteries segment that you might recognize although they have obviously aged; Jeff Oberholtzer and Det. Jim Hardtke are interviewed again.
not a shock because Jeff is the husband and the Det. is the guy investigating.

*The psychics trace the women's final moments extremely accurately and add some interesting tidbits of what they feel motivated the crimes.
what did they say motivated the crimes and do the psychics say the same person did it??? i heard some opinions of it being two guys, i think it was only one though, my guess is that the motivation is he wanted to sexually assault them.

[MegtheEgg86]

what did they say motivated the crimes and do the psychics say the same person did it??? i heard some opinions of it being two guys, i think it was only one though, my guess is that the motivation is he wanted to sexually assault them.

One of the psychics said she felt Annette Schnee's murder was committed by two men, and that one of those two men also committed Bobbie Oberholtzer's murder. The idea, she felt, was that Oberholtzer's murder excited this man, which in turn excited the second man, who resolved to go out with the first man for a crime to commit together.

[dynoguy88]

One of the psychics said she felt Annette Schnee's murder was committed by two men, and that one of those two men also committed Bobbie Oberholtzer's murder. The idea, she felt, was that Oberholtzer's murder excited this man, which in turn excited the second man, who resolved to go out with the first man for a crime to commit together.

The feeling was that both men were friends and they were both present for the murder of Annette. It is believed that both men might have raped her as well. But obviously only one of them can pull the trigger. According to the psychic, the smaller man came up with the idea to do this to Annette and he needed his friend to help him dispose of her body. So once she was dead, she was placed in the trunk of the guy's car and driven 3 miles away to the creek where her body would be found 6 months later. As far as the rape itself, it seems the circumstances around it match what happened in the UM segment. She was sexually assaulted in a vehicle and then appeared to get dressed in a hurry. She might have tried to flee once she got dressed but she was eventually shot in the back.

The bigger guy who helped his friend roll Annette's body into the creek apparently got some sort of sick high off this and drove by himself into Breckenridge where he picked up Bobbie, tried to rape her and then killed her on top of Hoosier Pass. Her death was much more cut and dry then Annette's because Bobbie's body was found so much sooner.

It is also interesting to note that the other psychic came up with possible names of these two men which were bleeped out. Apparently one of these men drove the type of car seen in the psychic's vision of Annette's murder and he bought a gun a week before the murders took place. This man eventually was killed in the 90's after trying to rob a bank. All we know about the other man from the psychic (which we were allowed to see on TV) was that he was not a highly educated man. He had come on to Bobbie in the past and she had always wished he would just go away. After the murders, he left the area but came back many times because his mother still lives there. Police have run DNA samples on both men but the results obviously were not made public. I guess it takes a while to find out.

[SageSlowdive]

The feeling was that both men were friends and they were both present for the murder of Annette. It is believed that both men might have raped her as well. But obviously only one of them can pull the trigger. According to the psychic, the smaller man came up with the idea to do this to Annette and he needed his friend to help him dispose of her body. So once she was dead, she was placed in the trunk of the guy's car and driven 3 miles away to the creek where her body would be found 6 months later. As far as the rape itself, it seems the circumstances around it match what happened in the UM segment. She was sexually assaulted in a vehicle and then appeared to get dressed in a hurry. She might have tried to flee once she got dressed but she was eventually shot in the back.

The bigger guy who helped his friend roll Annette's body into the creek apparently got some sort of sick high off this and drove by himself into Breckenridge where he picked up Bobbie, tried to rape her and then killed her on top of Hoosier Pass. Her death was much more cut and dry then Annette's because Bobbie's body was found so much sooner.

It is also interesting to note that the other psychic came up with possible names of these two men which were bleeped out. Apparently one of these men drove the type of car seen in the psychic's vision of Annette's murder and he bought a gun a week before the murders took place. This man eventually was killed in the 90's after trying to rob a bank. All we know about the other man from the psychic (which we were allowed to see on TV) was that he was not a highly educated man. He had come on to Bobbie in the past and she had always wished he would just go away. After the murders, he left the area but came back many times because his mother still lives there. Police have run DNA samples on both men but the results obviously were not made public. I guess it takes a while to find out.

Wow, that's really interesting. It seems like a plausible theory too - hopefully the DNA will prove something.

[slasherman]

When it comes to psychics and murder cases I want to quote myself...


I think many times psychics destroys more than they help in a case. As to why the psychics is "spot on" many times is because they know the case. It is simply not believable that they did not have a lot of information on this case and all other cases on Sensing Murder. These are well know cases and a psychic are more interested in murder cases than a average person. They lie when they say that they know nothing about the cases. And this lie tells me that these people are not helping, on the contrary they are confusing and damaging the investigation. I have seen a lot of the episodes of Sensing Murder and not one new thing have "they" come up with. Not a single thing. What is the name of the killer, where is the licenses plate number, where does the killer live. Just bull**** like: I'm inside the head of the killer now, I can feel the victims pain, she is okay where she is now (talking to the victims parents).
But it is always good to have a case on the TV anyway. But I don't understand the concept of these programs: The lesser you know the better. This is of course bull****. The more information you have even if you are so called a psychic the better. And stop pretending you know nothing because you wanna impress with your psychic ability's; Deb Webber, Sue Nicholson, Kelvin Cruickshank and the rest.

[dynoguy88]

A sad anniversary today for Jeff Oberholzter. Bobbie's body was found 29 years ago today. 1/7/82

[SageSlowdive]

It's horrible knowing this case still hasn't been solved...

[dynoguy88]

As usual, I'm playing with Google Street View and I found the area of Bobbie's murder on Highway 9 between Breckenridge and Alma.

This is Hoosier Pass which is used as a scenic overlook. Bobbie's killer attempted to rape her in this parking lot.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/andy80_bucket/Orange1.jpg

This next photo shows you the path of Bobbie's final steps. After the killer attempted to bind her wrists inside his vehicle, she escaped from him and ran along Highway 9. The circle to the right is the south side of the parking lot where she exited and the circle to the left is where she was killed.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/andy80_bucket/Orange2.jpg

Going further down Highway 9, we get a closer look at the trees surrounding the spot where she ended up. This set of trees was where Bobbie hoped to hide from the killer after escaping him in the parking lot. Just on the other side of the 50 MPH speed limit sign is where she turned to run off the road.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/andy80_bucket/Orange3.jpg

I was able to find the cross that was placed where Bobbie's body was found. It's circled. When you zoom in on Google Street View, the picture quality gets a little blurry so it's not the best photo. But I was surprised I found the cross.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/andy80_bucket/Orange4.jpg

You'll notice that the cross is very close to the edge of the road suggesting she didn't make it very far. But that's not exactly where she was shot. Her tracks and blood in the snow turned around back to the road suggesting that the killer drove off right after he shot her and she tried to make it back to the road in hopes of flagging somebody down. Unfortunately, the snow banks at the time were so deep that it was next to impossible to climb back up to the road in her condition. She made it about halfway before finally losing strength and collapsing where the cross is.

[MegtheEgg86]

Thanks for taking the time to do this, dynoguy. This is by far one of my favorite UM cases and it was a real treat to find the thread bumped with your latest street view finds. :)

That stretch of highway looks virtually unchanged since 1982.

[hostedbyrobertstack]

DynoGuy, looks good! Funny, I had actually street-viewed this and found the cross a couple of weeks back as well...I wasn't sure if it were the cross or not, so I'm glad someone else found it as well. Now, if you can just find Annette's location for me :) It's a dirt road area, so it won't be street-viewable. Also, I was on a colorado hitch recently and you can actually street-view the road up to the Mother Cabrini shrine where Mark Groezinger's car was found, not sure of the exact spot though where it was found.

Yes, it is crazy to think that this road probably looks identical to how it looked almost 30 years ago, no changes and no reason for changes. It is a very strange feeling to think

[dynoguy88]

It took me a while to find the cross at first. From the book and the articles I read, it said Bobbie's body was found just about 100 yards from the parking lot. I had to go back and watch the Sensing Murder episode clip where the psychics spot the cross and they see it from the road right after walking past the speed limit sign, so I knew it had to be very close by.

Kudos to the Unsolved Mysteries crew. When they reenacted Bobbie's death scene for the segment, the actress playing Bobby ran off the road at the speed limit sign. They were were very precise in using the exact location of the actual murder for filming.

I tried looking for the location of where Annette's body was found in Sacramento Creek but the road isn't available in street view. The best I could find was the turnoff of the road from Highway 9 which takes you to the crime scene. But street view won't let me travel down it.

[88keys]

What a beautiful location. Sad to think something so horrible happened there.

[mwcarolina]

On this psychic show i seen online, one person thinks there are two killers while the other thinks there's one. To me though, they need to identify the person behind one of the killings, then check in to see if this guy did the other killing or if he had a friend who did it.

[soilentgreen]

Thanks for the images, dynoguy. I've always wanted to see that area, and unfortunately haven't traveled near it.

I have no idea if this has been posted, but it mentions more about Annette and Bobbie's last hours before they were picked up:

http://www.summitdaily.com/article/20050827/NEWS/108270031

[idol]

The only part about the husband that had sketchy details was his times did not match the other guys times that he said he was hanging out with on that night. Only problem and odd part was the police didn't find and confirm with the guy he was hanging out with on the night of the killings until 9 years later. Than again 9 years is a long time and who knows he could have messed up the times.

[mwcarolina]

The only part about the husband that had sketchy details was his times did not match the other guys times that he said he was hanging out with on that night.
i am over the husband, i know some people will say the husband did it because of his story and all, but the police have eliminated him as a suspect with good reason, i still think that the killer was a guy who just raped and killed hitchikers.

[SageSlowdive]

i am over the husband, i know some people will say the husband did it because of his story and all, but the police have eliminated him as a suspect with good reason, i still think that the killer was a guy who just raped and killed hitchikers.

Exactly - he is still making himself public and trying to find his wife's killer. He is innocent.

[mwcarolina]

Exactly - he is still making himself public and trying to find his wife's killer. He is innocent.
yeah, plus he was (if i am right) proven innocent thanks to DNA, i just think that the guy who did this was a killer who likely did this before and he had two opportunitities.