Missed cue & Audience member on stage?

[Bill S.]

In Donna McCrohan's book, "The Honeymooners Companion," there is a story on page 95 about a missed cue. It explains the whole story, how Gleason and Meadows went in the bedroom and never came back. Carney was left alone on stage and didn't say a word for two minutes straight, instead he peeled an orange that he found in the ice box. The person who told the story said it was "the funniest two minutes I've ever seen." This is a great story but the episode is never revealed. From what I can make of the story, the sketch was being filmed but I can't figure out what episode it was. Anyone have any idea?

The second thing that caught my attention was on page 98 of the same book. It reads as follows: "On one of the trip-to-Europe episodes, someone from the audience marched up on stage on an impulse. Art Carney, thinking it was a gag arranged by Gleason, played along. Gleason, knowing better, clowned around just long enough to get the man off stage." Once again, it doesn't mention which episode it was. It also doesn't mention if it was from the 50's europe shows or the 60's ones. Does anyone know?

I've also noticed one possible mistake in the book that I just wanted to point out. It's on the same page as the Europe incident (Page 98). It mentions the story of "Stand-In For Murder," how there was so much laughter from the audience that it ran overtime. Now, we all know this story as being about the released version (aired on 4-17-54). This is the episode released by MPI. However, the book says that this took place on June 4, 1955, which is the date the remake of "Stand-In For Murder" aired. Is the book wrong or did MPI mix up the dates like they did with several other episodes?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

[W.B.]

In Donna McCrohan's book, "The Honeymooners Companion," there is a story on page 95 about a missed cue. It explains the whole story, how Gleason and Meadows went in the bedroom and never came back. Carney was left alone on stage and didn't say a word for two minutes straight, instead he peeled an orange that he found in the ice box. The person who told the story said it was "the funniest two minutes I've ever seen." This is a great story but the episode is never revealed. From what I can make of the story, the sketch was being filmed but I can't figure out what episode it was. Anyone have any idea?

The second thing that caught my attention was on page 98 of the same book. It reads as follows: "On one of the trip-to-Europe episodes, someone from the audience marched up on stage on an impulse. Art Carney, thinking it was a gag arranged by Gleason, played along. Gleason, knowing better, clowned around just long enough to get the man off stage." Once again, it doesn't mention which episode it was. It also doesn't mention if it was from the 50's europe shows or the 60's ones. Does anyone know?

I've also noticed one possible mistake in the book that I just wanted to point out. It's on the same page as the Europe incident (Page 98). It mentions the story of "Stand-In For Murder," how there was so much laughter from the audience that it ran overtime. Now, we all know this story as being about the released version (aired on 4-17-54). This is the episode released by MPI. However, the book says that this took place on June 4, 1955, which is the date the remake of "Stand-In For Murder" aired. Is the book wrong or did MPI mix up the dates like they did with several other episodes?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.
I seem to remember that as to The Color Honeymooners, there was at least one episode where Mr. Gleason, in the closing curtain call, mentioned an incident on stage that was (to be) cut out. I'll have to go back to see what's what. Sounds like it was one of the c.1967 episodes.

But The Honeymooners' Companion seemed to mess up on certain dates, period. Confusing the 4/17/54 and 6/4/55 versions of "Stand-In for Murder" (as was probably the case) was the least of it. Ms. McCrohan had Gleason moving to Miami (not Miami Beach) in 1962, and in a conversation I had with her at one of the Honeymooners conventions in the '80's she remained firmly convinced this was the case even though I pointed out that the first two seasons of The American Scene Magazine originated (in Johnny Olson's words) "from New York City, The Entertainment Capital of the World," and that The Great One's actual move to Florida was 1964. (And at the time I spake with her on this, I'd already seen the first TASM episode at what was then the Museum of Broadcasting.) And of course, not mentioning the titles of the non-"Trip to Europe" color episodes, and skipping the 1969-70 season (and the sketch from Gleason's 1973 special) altogether. But then, in a way, back then this was all understandable, I suppose - interest in The Honeymooners was at an absolutely low ebb in 1978 when the book was published (by the same company whose other famous publication was something called TV Book by Judy Fireman), there was a very real danger that the show would drift into obscurity like so many B&W shows made way-back-when, and there wasn't the kind of abundance of information we see today on everything Honeymooners. As to the bit with the orange, sounds like one of the Lost Episodes, though which one I can't ascertain at this time.

[Bill S.]

I just found a couple more interesting things in "Love, Alice" that I was hoping somebody might know about. Here's an excerpt about a door:

"Of course, it happened to me as the only one left onstage, but, as I recall with clarity, while Jackie made his exit, hearing an ominous click as the door slammed. I thought there couldn't possibly be a lock on that door, no reason for it, but there was. Art was to enter next, but all I could hear were people jiggling the knob back and forth and whispering. Meanwhile, left all alone onstage, I resisted the temptation to exit myself through the bedroom door. I hummed my way over to the stove and started to put a pot on, stirring nothing furiously. Consequently, my back was to the window. It seemed as though an hour had gone by--it was probably a few seconds--when I turned to see Art coming through the window saying, "There's more than one way to skin a cat." He had forgotten to open the window, since there was naturally no glass in it. Jackie had sent him around to the Kramden fire escape outside our window, hissing, "Run, Aud can't stall out there forever." The next one supposed to enter was a Western Union boy. He knocked, and as I started for the door, Art said, "Good luck." The studio audience had caught on by now that the door had turned into concrete, and they loved it. Yet this time it opened to applause for the door, and, thank God, another live TV crisis was over." (Page 173)

Anyone have any idea what episode that might be? Since she said "another live TV crisis," I'd assume this is something we've all seen. My other question is, when they did a two-week gig at the Paramount, were those shows filmed? There was a gag Gleason and Carney pulled on Audrey during that time that would be hilarious to see. Any help would be appreciated.

[VIDEOWACK]

The episode where Gleason tells the home audience about a "surprise" visitor to the stage during the taping was "We're Off To See The Wizard" from 2/21/70.

[Bill S.]

The episode where Gleason tells the home audience about a "surprise" visitor to the stage during the taping was "We're Off To See The Wizard" from 2/21/70.
I guess they made another mistake in the book by saying it was a "Trip To Europe" episode.

Any idea about the episode with the orange or the door not opening?

[W.B.]

The episode where Gleason tells the home audience about a "surprise" visitor to the stage during the taping was "We're Off To See The Wizard" from 2/21/70.
I guess they made another mistake in the book by saying it was a "Trip To Europe" episode.
I figured that it might've been post-Trip to Europe . . . but thanks for pinpointing it specifically.

[Teck]

on the wit and wisdom of ed norton after the narrator says norton eats the kramdens out of house and home, he seems to be retrieving an orange in one segment (he's wearing a coat) could this be the episode? Arrgh! Someone tell me the "missed cue" episode. thanks.

[VIDEOWACK]

The second thing that caught my attention was on page 98 of the same book. It reads as follows: "On one of the trip-to-Europe episodes, someone from the audience marched up on stage on an impulse. Art Carney, thinking it was a gag arranged by Gleason, played along. Gleason, knowing better, clowned around just long enough to get the man off stage." Once again, it doesn't mention which episode it was. It also doesn't mention if it was from the 50's europe shows or the 60's ones. Does anyone know?

I've also noticed one possible mistake in the book that I just wanted to point out. It's on the same page as the Europe incident (Page 98). It mentions the story of "Stand-In For Murder," how there was so much laughter from the audience that it ran overtime. Now, we all know this story as being about the released version (aired on 4-17-54). This is the episode released by MPI. However, the book says that this took place on June 4, 1955, which is the date the remake of "Stand-In For Murder" aired. Is the book wrong or did MPI mix up the dates like they did with several other episodes?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

I don't know about a "Trip to Europe" episode, but in the episode titled "We're Off To See The Wizard" that aired on 2/21/70, Jackie explains during the curtain call that a piece had to be cut out and that "you people at home won't see it", that a "dirty ole" (as he would say) came running up on stage during a scene. As far as "Stand In For Murder" is concerned.....the episode that ran "over" and went off air before they could end it for the home audience was from 1954. The 1955 remake finished on time....so much so, in fact, that Gleason had to ad-lib about 2 minutes during his curtain call, and joking as to how they ended the previous year. I was able to view a kinescope of the remake at a 1985 R.A.L.P.H. convention.....that's the only reason I am able to state this.

[Bill S.]

As far as "Stand In For Murder" is concerned.....the episode that ran "over" and went off air before they could end it for the home audience was from 1954. The 1955 remake finished on time....so much so, in fact, that Gleason had to ad-lib about 2 minutes during his curtain call, and joking as to how they ended the previous year. I was able to view a kinescope of the remake at a 1985 R.A.L.P.H. convention.....that's the only reason I am able to state this.
So I guess that verifies that the "Stand In For Murder" remake WAS shown at one of the R.A.L.P.H. conventions. Can you tell us anything about how it ended differently?

on the wit and wisdom of ed norton after the narrator says norton eats the kramdens out of house and home, he seems to be retrieving an orange in one segment (he's wearing a coat) could this be the episode? Arrgh! Someone tell me the "missed cue" episode. thanks.
I've never seen "The Wit and Wisdom of Ed Norton," but I might have to pick that up just to see what episode you're talking about. The problem is, there's so many episodes where Norton sneaks into the ice box when nobody's looking that it's hard to pinpoint one exactly.

However, regarding the episode where Norton has to enter the apartment through the fire escape, I have a vague memory of that scene. For some reason I can't think of the episode but I remember Norton coming in the window and saying "There's more than one way to skin a cat." If anyone has any idea please fill us in. Thanks.

[C Ingram]

.
However, regarding the episode where Norton has to enter the apartment through the fire escape, I have a vague memory of that scene. For some reason I can't think of the episode but I remember Norton coming in the window and saying "There's more than one way to skin a cat." If anyone has any idea please fill us in. Thanks.

I don't recall this episode, and have never seen it, but I do remember the "skin a cat" line being quoted in Donna Crohan's book or elsewhere. No idea which episode this might be.

[T-Greg]

I've never seen "The Wit and Wisdom of Ed Norton," but I might have to pick that up just to see what episode you're talking about.

It's on the Lost Episodes Box set #3.

http://www.mpihomevideo.com/?p=25467&pid=55&pcid=&ccid=

[Benno123]

I think once the color Europe shows are out, then the originals will make their appearance on the home video market. I've always wondered if one reason why they weren't released wasn't because there wasn't an interest to see the b&w versions (which I don't believe) but because of rights issues with the songs. Just an idea . . .

I do think that as far as the Trip To Europe shows go, the color episodes are better known than the original. My Dad (who got me hooked on all the old comedy movies and TV shows) remembers the color shows very well (he was in his teens when the Gleason show was on in color) and he remembers watching the Honeymooners go to Europe. He was shocked when I told him that there were the originals in the 50s. When the DVDs of the color shows come out, I can't wait to show them to him, I know he's going to enjoy them.

[Benno123]

For some reason, Bill, I think the Gleason Estate, as well as private collectors, sit on a wealth of footage that will be making itself to the home market in due time.

I'd like to see a release of Gleason's "Million Dollar Incident" special that he did. Is that even available on the collectors market?

[VIDEOWACK]

So I guess that verifies that the "Stand In For Murder" remake WAS shown at one of the R.A.L.P.H. conventions. Can you tell us anything about how it ended differently?

I honestly can't recall EXACTLY how the 1955 remake ended (in detail) since 21 years has gone by since I viewed it only once, but Ralph, Alice and Norton were together and happy as Ralph recounted what he had been thru. Somehow, the crooks "got theirs".

:lol:

[VIDEOWACK]

I'd like to see a release of Gleason's "Million Dollar Incident" special that he did. Is that even available on the collectors market?

Ben, "Million Dollar Incident" has not surfaced in the collectors market.....at least, not as far as I have ever seen, and I have been a collector for 30 years.

[C Ingram]

For some reason, Bill, I think the Gleason Estate, as well as private collectors, sit on a wealth of footage that will be making itself to the home market in due time.

I certainly hope they put the "American Scene Magazine" shows on DVD in their original form, as well as the color Gleason variety hours from the late 1960's.

And, of course, I'd love to see the DuMont kinescopes make it to DVD, but those would have to come from the MT&R (to which they were donated by Snag Werris' family).

[Bill S.]

For some reason, Bill, I think the Gleason Estate, as well as private collectors, sit on a wealth of footage that will be making itself to the home market in due time.
And I can't wait for that day. The day that I can stop writing countless letters and e-mails to the people in charge that is.

I honestly can't recall EXACTLY how the 1955 remake ended (in detail) since 21 years has gone by since I viewed it only once, but Ralph, Alice and Norton were together and happy as Ralph recounted what he had been thru. Somehow, the crooks "got theirs".
That sure sounds like the way it should've ended. Hopefully you'll be able to refresh your memory sometime soon. :)

[Bill S.]

I certainly hope they put the "American Scene Magazine" shows on DVD in their original form, as well as the color Gleason variety hours from the late 1960's.

And, of course, I'd love to see the DuMont kinescopes make it to DVD, but those would have to come from the MT&R (to which they were donated by Snag Werris' family).
I'm worried about those Honeymooners sketches to be honest. The 7 DuMont sketches might make it to DVD, but the other 2 sketches with Pert Kelton from the Ed Sullivan Show probably won't be included. Then there's the 3 American Scene episodes which, if released, would probably end up on one lonely DVD. But who knows? If the upcoming Honeymooners releases do well, these might pop up.

[Teck]

[QUOTE=Bill S.]
Do you own it? If so, maybe you can verify for us what episode Teck's talking about. I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you what part of the special it's at so you don't have to watch the whole thing over again.

QUOTE]

As i said it's right after the narrator says, "it was norton who ate the kramdens out of house and home." I don't know the episode as the wit and wisom is a montage. In the clip ed wipes his prints of the icebox, with the fruit in his left hand. I tried zooming in but an orange has no distiction in black and white. Hope this helps.

P.s. Anyone know other forums i could try?

[C Ingram]

I'm worried about those Honeymooners sketches to be honest. The 7 DuMont sketches might make it to DVD, but the other 2 sketches with Pert Kelton from the Ed Sullivan Show probably won't be included. Then there's the 3 American Scene episodes which, if released, would probably end up on one lonely DVD. But who knows? If the upcoming Honeymooners releases do well, these might pop up.

One wonders who holds the rights to a Honeymooners sketch on the Ed Sullivan show. Is it SOFA Entertainment (which has the Sullivan rights) or Gleason's estate?

I've heard it said that there isn't much demand for any Honeymooners that doesn't feature the "Classic 39" cast (Gleason, Carney, Meadows, Randolph). Hopefully the "Color Honeymooners" DVD set will prove them wrong, but so far on Amazon, it's something like #6,000 in sales rank. (The fourth season of Mary Tyler Moore, which was released yesterday, is in the top 20.)

[W.B.]

Hopefully the "Color Honeymooners" DVD set will prove them wrong, but so far on Amazon, it's something like #6,000 in sales rank. (The fourth season of Mary Tyler Moore, which was released yesterday, is in the top 20.)
Just curious, what's Amazon's ranking for MPI's DVD releases of The Beverly Hillbillies and Petticoat Junction? That might give a clue as to how The Color Honeymooners ranks in relation. As for me, I've certainly pre-ordered my copy and it should be mailed next week. . . .

[C Ingram]

I just checked at Amazon, and as of the time of this posting, here is your answer:

Beverly Hillbillies Ultimate Collection Vol. 1 ranks #7,713
Beverly Hillbillies Ultimate Collection Vol. 2 ranks #7,895
Petticoat Junction Ultimate Collection Vol. 1 ranks #3,611

So, neither these nor the "Color Honeymooners" box set are among the top DVD sellers...or anywhere close.

By comparison, the Adventures of Superman 3rd & 4th season set ranks #9 (not too surprising, considering the new movie debuts next week), and the Mary Tyler Moore Show 4th season set ranks #15.

[Bill S.]

One wonders who holds the rights to a Honeymooners sketch on the Ed Sullivan show. Is it SOFA Entertainment (which has the Sullivan rights) or Gleason's estate?
I'd assume SOFA holds the rights to those particular Honeymooners sketches since Gleason was a guest on Ed Sullivan's show. As far as I know, guests that were on Gleason's show don't have the rights to the shows they appeared on so I don't see why it would be any different in this case.

[T-Greg]

Ben, "Million Dollar Incident" has not surfaced in the collectors market.....at least, not as far as I have ever seen, and I have been a collector for 30 years.

That's true. I've also looked for it and it's nowhere to be found. However, about 3 years ago I was in touch with someone who claimed to know someone who had it. I tried to get it, but before I was able, I lost touch with him.

[Teck]

I think we can all agree that the on the on air mistakes added to the charm of the show.

That said, can not anyone name the missed cue, audience member on stage, and "more than one way to skin a cat" episodes? Are they in the lost dvd sets?

The box sets go thru volume 24, but isn't there highter number volume of lost episodes, or are they just repeats from other disk.


thanks!

[Teck]

Any luck finding the above episodes?

[Bill S.]

I found another story about the time the door didn't work, on Page 181 of "The Honeymooners Lost Episodes." Maybe this can help shed some light on which episode it could be...
One time, Norton is supposed to come into Kramden's apartment and talk to Alice. Norton tries the door. The door doesn't open. It doesn't budge. He tries again. Nothing. Finally, he climbs through the window. Since there's no glass in the window, he forgets to open the sash. He just steps right through. The audience howls. Carney ad-libs, completely in character, "There's more than one way to skin a cat." A Western Union messenger knocks at the door. By now, it's common knowledge that the door is a lost cause. Norton says, "Good luck, pal." But the door has been repaired. The messenger breezes in. The audience goes wild.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of many episodes in which a Western Union boy comes by the apartment. I'm surprised there's so many different accounts of this story but no one ever thinks to mention what episode it was. :(

[Teck]

You said you remember the episodes, so that means it must be available.

I want to see this classic moment.

Any Success?

Do you have any suggestions?

[Bill S.]

You said you remember the episodes, so that means it must be available.

I want to see this classic moment.

Any Success?

Do you have any suggestions?
Well, we found out that the kinescope of the episode with the orange incident had deteriorated over time (See: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=187344). It's always possible that there's another copy but we'll just have to wait and see for that one. I'm still searching for the "more than one way to skin a cat" episode, I've still got a few Lost Episodes to go through before I can be sure though. If I don't end up finding it in my personal collection, then I don't know where else to go from there. According to an interview I read recently (See Post #2 of this thread: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=187441), the episode is out there and was kept as is.

[Bill S.]

on the wit and wisdom of ed norton after the narrator says norton eats the kramdens out of house and home, he seems to be retrieving an orange in one segment (he's wearing a coat) could this be the episode? Arrgh! Someone tell me the "missed cue" episode. thanks.
I finally got around to checking this out, somebody posted it on YouTube. Here's the clip with the part you're referring to:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v5oSta59214&mode=related&search=
The part with the orange is at around 8:36. Unfortunately, I can't think of which episode this is off the top of my head. Judging from the ice box and the "light" on the wall from the window, it shouldn't have aired any later than 1953. I'll start looking through some earlier episodes to try and find it, unless someone else can tell us for sure. There's another episode shown in this clip that I can't seem to figure out off the top of my head either (I'm a little rusty), it comes on at around 6:36, when Norton is juggling the apples. Anyone know which episode this is?

[W.B.]

I finally got around to checking this out, somebody posted it on YouTube. Here's the clip with the part you're referring to:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v5oSta59214&mode=related&search=
The part with the orange is at around 8:36. Unfortunately, I can't think of which episode this is off the top of my head. Judging from the ice box and the "light" on the wall from the window, it shouldn't have aired any later than 1953. I'll start looking through some earlier episodes to try and find it, unless someone else can tell us for sure. There's another episode shown in this clip that I can't seem to figure out off the top of my head either (I'm a little rusty), it comes on at around 6:36, when Norton is juggling the apples. Anyone know which episode this is?
Looks like the clip with the "orange" was c.1954, given the way the door looked like then. As for the apple juggling, I'd date it 1956-57 (the door was the same as in the Classic 39 shows). You can narrow the origin from there.