Breakthru in Mary Mcginnis Morris Murder?

[Koala]

I never questioned it years ago but I did the research recently. Lana Walker RN of Atascosita, Texas married to Doyle Wayne Walker, daughter - Lisa Jones - (both Lana and Lisa worked at Union Carbide with Mary Morris (and Teresa Washburn Grant) . Lana stated to me that Laurie Gemmell and Katy Morris had appeared before a Grand Jury to testify about the relationship of the Morris couple. However, my research indicates that someone is first charged before there is a grand jury. Question - Is someone trying to snow someone? It is not me.

[themaninblack]

will the mary morris saga never end?

[freakmagnet]

Greetings from Kelowna!

I'm looking for a break through, too! I think mine will be better.

[SP4CE INV4DERZ]

I am curious as to know what sorta break-through do you hope coming here to this message board?

[freakmagnet]

I am curious as to know what sorta break-through do you hope coming here to this message board?

What?

[SP4CE INV4DERZ]

What?

That wasn't aimed at you; I'm just saying that the Koala guy keeps bringing this stuff here and what does he hope it will prove?

[freakmagnet]

Ahhh!

So you too are a Koala sceptic?

Maybe we should talk about why Koala feels the need to keep opening threads on this forum? Or why his last one disappeared? Or how long he thinks this one will last?

Maybe we should talk about why someone whose claim to fame as "angry co-worker" would spend so much time digging around in something when he claims to have no connection?

Koala is an enigma wrapped in a mystery, smothered is secret sauce.

[Koala]

Ahhh!


Koala is an enigma wrapped in a mystery, smothered is secret sauce.

I used to be a werewolf but I'm alright nowoooooooooooo!

[freakmagnet]

So what happened to your brother?

[Koala]

Died December 1988, Changmai area of Thailand. He was a paramedic on days off from Jordan. Things of his were missing like foot wear and some other things when his stuff was returned. My mother was in contact with people from Kelowna whose son also died in Thailand. They were told he drowned in a pool or something like that. They demanded his body be returned intact and his tongue was apparently cut out and bullet holes in his head. My mom did more research and found out the Thais often tried to cover up crimes to save the tourist industry. We opted to have him cremated so it was too late for a Canadian autopsy. He had tickets in his pocket to go on a walking tour the next day. The autopsy report from Changmai indicated he had traces of morphine in his bile. Due to the other reports of cover ups we strongly speculated a possible murder. The other alternative would be a heroin overdose. Our family could never get closure because we did not know what happened and Thailand is too hard to do research on something like this. If you really need to do this you can call my dad in Salmon Arm which is 60 miles away from Kelowna. He is 82 years old and has suffered from the death of his son. I hope you can be tactful enough not to hurt him or just leave it alone. I know full well what it means not to have closure and in some ways that is what strenghthens my resolve. I can't do much more in Mary's death but I know people do not consistently tell lies without a motive.

[Koala]

My brothers name is/was Dale Douglas Young. Born June 10th or 11th 1952(always got his birthday mixed up between the 2 dates.) My nephew Ryan Young lives in Kelowna. He was too young to know much about it. But he can turn you on to his dad, Randy Young in Salmon Arm if you are intent on doing research. You could also look up archives in the Kelowna paper about the other family and their obviously murdered son. You may recall a guy named Josh Mcdowell from the early 80s. His research came out of sceptisizm and he wrote a book called More than a Carpenter. I hope your research will lead you down a similar path to truth.

[freakmagnet]

I would never hurt your father.

I can't imagine the kind of person it would take - to drag up the painful death of someone outside thier own family, knowing the agony it must cause the people involved who do not have closure, over and over and over again.

Maybe you could help me with an answer to that one?

[Koala]

I have thought about it. That is what I have done is caused more grief and anguish for the friends and family of Mary. Some of it is selfish. I just can not stand to have people get away with trying to make me out to do things I did not do. Death threat, notes in computers, and then what I determine must be lies for a reason that don't make sense. The other part is yes, it is painful but if there is something I can do to help, which is worse, trying to find the truth and get closure for everyone (maybe) or risk hurting the family of Mary? I asked Stephanie Loar some very painful questions about Mary. My intention was not to hurt her or others. I had been presented with some hard questions that I needed answered both due in part that I had observed and the fact that Lana Walker had told me that she thought Mary had framed me. I was only searching for the truth and trying to make sense of it all. I still do not have the answers but I am fairly sure now. Mary did not kill herself. Mary probably did not try to frame me. Someone killed her. The lies tell a story. To me, especially after reviewing everything and then finding out there is no grand jury without charges being laid first reinforces my past suspicions without a doubt. There can be no other explanation unless Lana Walker has a very good one. alternate sources - They can always be traced. She has some explaining to do. That is why I have being wanting to find the source of all the crap. The source killed Mary.

[Koala]

The pain is still here. Because there was no closure. All of my family have laid awake asking questions, sufferring, trying to get by and wondering. There never is closure. I guess this comes from me these days but I am quite sure it applies to my brothers and my dad. We don't talk about it anymore. I just know what I go through and guess it is the same off and on for the others. I am referring to the death of my brother and friend.

[freakmagnet]

That all sounds very righteous of you, Duane, but I have some problems with the picture you're painting.

You were in no way identified except as an "angry co-worker." As near as I can find, you're name didn't appear in the paper or on television as a suspect at all. Your righteous indignation is void because no one knows who the hell you are. All the pain and suffering at the cost of your reputation is untrue.

You take your "story" to the internet to find "closure" for the injustice against you. You tell everyone who you are - your name, your address, your phone number - everything in the world that would keep you anonymous - and you plaster it here along with claims that you are being slandered, when the truth is - you are not.

But now you have your moment of fame, right? Now people know your name. Now you look like some kind of authority on something that happened near you, but you missed it all because you were so involved with your own demons that it passed you by!

So you don't know anything. No one tells you anything. The police don't supply you with your information. People who are actually close to the case have restraining orders against you. The truth is, you frequently don't even have your own "facts" straight. People are lying to you to get you off their backs. Guess what, Duane? No one owes you the truth here. You are a hindrance to a very serious investigation.

I used to think you were involved, but I don't think so anymore. I think you are a sad little man who missed his one chance to be Duane Young and has been reduced in history to "the angry co-worker" title.

As far as Mary's family is concerned, I haven't met them. But if she were my family, I would want you to butt out - or confess. The one thing I know for sure at this point is that you can produce nothing new about this case. You can't tell the lies from the truth.

You have enough compassion to not want me to talk to your father? Not rip the scabs off the wounds of an unsolved mystery in his life and yours? Yet you open this wound for Mary's family constantly.

I just don't get your logic. Maybe it's because there's none there.

[Koala]

Houston Chronicle - May or June 2002. The rest you figure out.

[Koala]

HOUSTON CHRONICLE ARCHIVES
Paper: Houston Chronicle
Date: SUN 05/26/2002
Section: A
Page: 1
Edition: 4 STAR

The two deaths of Mary Morris / Days apart, killings linked by names leave families pondering connection

By ROMA KHANNA
Staff

Over the course of five days in October 2000, two women, both mothers, both named Mary Morris, were reported missing and later found slain.

One was burned so severely that tooth fragments were the only remains that confirmed her identity. The other was beaten and shot once in the head. Both women were left dead in their cars and found by strangers. More than a year and half later, both killings remain unsolved.

Authorities are skeptical of any link between the slayings, but as the women's families grapple with their deaths, they say a connection may be the only explanation.

"It is just so astounding that two people by the same name, who to me look very similar, were murdered so close together," said Marilyn Blalock, daughter of Mary Henderson Morris. "They were both brutally murdered, and no one has been charged in either case. It's hard to say it was just coincidence."

The families' rationale hinges on the possibility that Mary Henderson Morris, 48, who was found dead in her charred car three miles from her Baytown home, was mistakenly killed by whoever wanted 39-year-old Mary McGinnis Morris dead.

"The (first) Mary Morris appears to have been killed by a total stranger, with a complete absence of physical evidence," said Kim Ogg of Crime Stoppers, who has aided both families' search for answers. "The (second) has multiple suspects and could have been a hit."

The families draw on this contrast to explain a potential link. Henderson Morris' case has had few leads and no suspects; McGinnis Morris was known to have had an unraveling marriage and problems with a co-worker.

"If you look at the whole picture, there were certainly people who could be perceived as having a reason to kill her," said Harris County sheriff's Detective Wayne Kuhlman, who is investigating the latter case.

On Oct. 12, 2000, Henderson Morris left the Baytown ranch she had built with her husband of five years, Jay Morris. He walked her to the car before 6 a.m. and watched as she turned from their Burnett Bay home in the direction of her regular gas station.

Jay Morris presumed she would stop and proceed to her job of 15 years at the Chase Bank at the Katy Freeway and Campbell in Spring Valley. That day he made several calls to his wife, with whom he spoke several times a day, but each time he got her voice mail.

Henderson Morris' supervisor called the house after 2 p.m. asking for her. The supervisor did not identify herself, so Jay Morris simply said his wife was at work.

"When Mary had not called me back, I did not think it made any sense," he said. He eventually called Chase and was told his wife had never shown up. Worried, he called police and Blalock, his stepdaughter.

The two began to retrace Henderson Morris' steps. They realized she had forgotten her cell phone that morning and began to speculate that she had gotten into an accident or had car trouble.

As Jay Morris made a missing-person report with the Sheriff's Department around 5 p.m., deputies received a call about an abandoned, burned-out car discovered by someone off-roading in a remote area.

Authorities identified the car as Henderson Morris' Chevrolet Lumina that evening, but they would need three days to confirm the remains inside were hers. Just 3 miles from her home, in the opposite direction of the bank, in an isolated drainage area, Henderson Morris' scorched body and car were nearly unidentifiable.

After the Oct. 16 funeral, Blalock called the Medical Examiner's Office to retrieve her mother's jewelry. A supervisor said it would be ready at the same time as the body.

"I said, `That is impossible; we just had the funeral,' " Blalock said. "And they told me they still had Mary Morris' body.

"I was freaking out. I was thinking we just had the funeral. I saw the remains, and I was looking at something that wasn't even my mother."

But the body in the morgue was nurse practitioner McGinnis Morris, who had been found slain that day.

McGinnis Morris planned to spend Oct. 15 the way she would most Sundays, running errands. She gave a flu shot to Laurie Gemmell, a friend and co-worker, and went to the post office, grocery store and drugstore.

As she shopped at the Eckerd store at U.S. 290 and West Little York, McGinnis Morris saw someone who made her uneasy. She called Gemmell.

"She said, `There is someone here who is giving me the creeps,' " Gemmell said. "She said it matter-of-factly. She did not sound scared. She was aware that she was uncomfortable and was going to head home."

Less than 15 minutes later, McGinnis Morris dialed 911. Investigators have not released the details of the call.

When McGinnis Morris did not come home that evening, her husband of 17 years, Mike Morris, reported her missing to police, friends and family. The next morning, a wrecker driver found her body, with a single gunshot wound to the head, in her company car, a 2000 Dodge Intrepid, on West Little York near the Eckerd, in the opposite direction of her workplace.

"It had the appearance of a suicide," said Kuhlman, of the Sheriff's Department. "But there was physical evidence that suggested it couldn't be."

McGinnis Morris was killed with a gun, registered to Mike Morris, that she had been carrying. Its placement could indicate it was a suicide, but there was clear evidence of a struggle, Kuhlman said. She was severely beaten and may have been gagged. Detectives found blood on the passenger door, which was left open, and the keys were outside the car.

The day McGinnis Morris' body was found, Stephanie Loar, her sister in West Virginia, called the Sheriff's Department and the medical examiner, which is how she found out about the other Mary Morris.

"They mentioned something about the Mary Morris that had been burned," said Loar. "Sometime right after that point, I began to think how strange and coincidental it all was.

"Both of these women, viciously murdered and left. There have been points when I begin to think they were not connected. But I always come back to it. It cannot just be coincidence."

Detectives investigating Henderson Morris' death quickly determined she had been a happy woman with a stable life. She met Jay Morris through a personals ad and had been content in their five-year marriage, the second for each of them.

Her first husband, Jim Henderson, remained a part of her life through their daughter, Blalock. He helped search for his ex-wife that October afternoon.

"She has no apparent enemies," said sheriff's Detective Robert Tonry. "No drugs. No affairs. It has been hard to track down suspects, just short of some mysterious person that abducted her."

Henderson Morris' body was found in an area secluded by a gate and thick trees that must be accessed by way of a busy Baytown thoroughfare. No one knew that the smoke reported to the Fire Department about 10:20 a.m. Oct. 12 - which was dismissed as burning leaves - was from the fire that gutted Henderson Morris' car.

Robbery seemed an unlikely motive, Tonry said.

The fire was set using massive amounts of accelerant, which singed nearby trees and melted everything from the car wheels to Henderson Morris' jewelry, all of which, except for her wedding ring, was left behind. Though her purse was missing, no charges were made on her credit cards, and her phone card was not used until five months later.

"The majority of the time, somebody committing a robbery wants to get the most money with the least amount of trouble," Tonry said. "If you would take a purse, wouldn't you take jewelry? Why be discriminating?

"Whoever did this took a great deal of time to seclude her in that area. If you get someone (out for drug money), he may kill her and try to wipe off the prints. But someone went to the trouble to make sure there was absolutely no evidence left."

With few clues, detectives cannot account for the time between her departure before 6 a.m. and the reports of fire at 10:20 a.m.

A cashier at a gas station at Interstate 10 and Thompson recalled someone matching Henderson Morris' description, but the store's surveillance video from that morning was destroyed before police could view it. And Henderson Morris, known to carry little cash, did not make any credit card charges.

Then in April, six months after the killing, Jay Morris received $2,000 in bills for his wife's phone card, which detectives traced to a 16-year-old Galveston girl.

She told detectives she found a purse with the card and other belongings in March sitting in the parking lot of a Galveston convenience store. The girl, who detectives determined was not connected to the slaying, said a neighbor kept the purse. Tonry found the purse, but Henderson Morris' family said it could not have been hers. The neighbor had thrown away the other contents.

About the same time, Jay Morris began receiving phone calls to his unlisted line from people asking for Mary. Caught off-guard, Morris initially said she was not home. By the third call, he followed detectives' advice and gave the caller Tonry's number as a place to reach her. The caller replied, "Oh, yeah, right," Morris said. That was the last call Morris received.

Detectives traced the phone calls to a Baytown apartment on Northwood but have no further leads.

"At this point, no one has been ruled out," Tonry said. "We are looking at everything."

Though doubtful, Tonry said he is willing to consider a link to the other Mary Morris' slaying.

"We have found no evidence of a connection," Tonry said. "But you can't rule it out."

McGinnis Morris left her home and family in West Virginia in 1998 to become medical director for Union Carbide in Houston, where she oversaw several of the company's clinics.

"She missed (her family) greatly," said Gemmell, who also worked at Union Carbide. "Them and the hills of West Virginia."

As McGinnis Morris settled into her life in Houston, she grew to love her job and made fast friends with Gemmell. But her life was not without problems.

Her marriage was troubled. Problems escalated when the couple moved to Houston, where Mike Morris was out of work. They argued often and, at one time, he believed she was having an affair.

"I confronted her and the person," Mike Morris said. "They looked me in the eye and denied it. I chose to believe them. We had problems in the last few years, but we were well on our way to solving them. We were back at the point of being best friends when she died."

Friends and family, however, suggest the marriage had not mended. They said Mike Morris was distrustful and often followed his wife.

"Mary put it to me that she had fallen in love with someone else," said Loar, her sister. "But she was not going to leave Mike. She was trying to make her marriage work. But after they had gone through three or four marriage counselors, it had gotten to the point where she would have asked him for a divorce."

There also was tension at work. Early in 2000, a temporary employee joined McGinnis Morris' staff and complained to her superiors, questioned her authority and often seemed agitated, Gemmell said.

"The problems with him started immediately," she said. "But in the last few weeks of her life, things had become very stressful for her. She was really afraid."

The co-worker, Duane Young of Kemah, denied any involvement in McGinnis Morris' death but declined to elaborate in an interview. He said he is prohibited by a court order sought by Union Carbide from speaking about the case.

McGinnis Morris began to carry a gun about two weeks before she was killed. Then, the Thursday before she was killed, McGinnis Morris found a disturbing note written on a desktop calendar at her Clear Lake clinic. It said, "Death to her."

She told her superiors, who advised her to stay home that Friday. Later that day, Young returned to the office to make sure his timecard had been signed. He made a scene and was asked not to return, Gemmell said.

"He was banging on the windows and asking for Mary," she said. "He had to be escorted out."

McGinnis Morris was killed three days later.

The investigation into McGinnis Morris' killing has been difficult.

"She had a co-worker doing everything in his power to wreck her career and a husband with whom she had a bad relationship," Kuhlman said. "She had a $500,000 life insurance policy.

"We have not been able to eliminate these people as suspects. The problem with this one is a lack of cooperation by the people closest to her. We didn't have access to her daughter for two months, and her husband has not helped out."

Friends and family acknowledge McGinnis Morris began to carry a gun because of problems at work, but some offered conflicting reports about whether she had stopped.

"Mike told us she was carrying the gun up until her death, but a friend and co-worker said she was going to quit carrying it," Kuhlman said. "How would someone know she had a gun in her car? If she had been killed by just anyone with a gun, that would be one thing, but she was killed with the family gun."

McGinnis Morris' car had doors that locked when the car was put into gear, suggesting the person who attacked her had access to the car, Kuhlman said.

"She did not let anybody in," Kuhlman said. "It appeared it was somebody who would have been able to get into the locked car."

McGinnis Morris was not robbed; the only item Mike Morris reported missing was a ring she was known to wear. But months after the killing, a friend of the family who was having dinner with Mike Morris noticed that his 16-year-old daughter, Katy, was wearing the ring. The Morrises told the friend they had found it, and the friend later told Kuhlman.

Mike Morris, who moved back to West Virginia with Katy, said he has done everything asked of him.

"The police labeled me uncooperative as soon as I hired an attorney, which is my right," he said. "I gave them access to my apartment, fingerprints, blood samples - everything, with the exception of a polygraph."

In her call to Gemmell, McGinnis Morris she said she may have recognized the person who made her nervous.

"She said she thought she had met this person through the person at work she was having problems with," Gemmell said.

Though the employee gave McGinnis Morris trouble, he had been to her home for a party, Kuhlman said. She and Mike Morris also attended a party that the employee had thrown.

"He was not excluded from company events," Kuhlman said. "They all know each other. They had been out together."

About two hours after McGinnis Morris called 911, she received a call on her cell phone. Mike Morris, who was at the movies with Katy, told detectives he never reached his wife. He said the phone rang unanswered. But phone records indicate the call lasted four minutes. That was the final incoming call completed to McGinnis Morris' phone.

Kuhlman maintains that the slayings, which happened on opposite ends of the county, are not connected.

"As far as the dates go, they are so close they could be linked," he said. "But when someone is hired to kill someone, they are going to have their information and know their habits. Hit men don't just go out with nothing."

Regardless of whether the Mary Morrises' deaths were connected, their families are united in their grief.

"There was no reason for my Mary to be killed," Jay Morris said. "She would want the person who did this to both of them caught, but in trying to find the killer, she can't even die in peace."

...

Coincidence or mistaken identity?

Within five days in October 2000, two women named Mary Morris were killed in Harris County.

Mary Henderson Morris

Oct. 12, 2000

Morris' body was found north of the 2600 block of Lynchburg Cedar Bayou Road.

Mary McGinnis Morris

Oct. 16, 2000

Morris' body was found north of the 8600 block of West Little York.


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[freakmagnet]

True. 3/4 of the way through an article published 4 days after the crime. Thank you for bolding it for me - I was losing interest.

Speaking of obscure, you might want to mention the real reason you want that AMW episode?

So one...?

In 5 years?

Sorry, Angry Co-Worker. You have no new light to shed on this case. Slink back into oblivion.

[Koala]

[QUOTE=freakmagnet]True. 3/4 of the way through an article published 4 days after the crime.

The article which was on the front page of the Chronicle was published 1 year and 8 months after the murder. I really hope your research skills improve. If you need to find out about my claims go to the TV stations that aired the broadcasts I described about Gemmell. Physically go to the courthouse and read all of the documentation. Actually speak to other people that were present for some of the events. Get the whole story or as much as you can. Ragging on me without doing your homework is not productive. I do not intend to provide you with every little detail about the case. It is an ongoing investigation. I can prove most of my claims but that is a matter for the police to decide when and where it is disseminated. The AMW tape would be for me to decide how to use it. It does not need further explanation to some obscure person named Nancy Chambers who has no phone numbers and does not even seem to reside in Auburndale.

[freakmagnet]

[QUOTE=freakmagnet] It does not need further explanation to some obscure person named Nancy Chambers who has no phone numbers and does not even seem to reside in Auburndale.

Would you like to explain to the listening audience why you know this information about me?

[Koala]

Research on the internet. Freakmagnet seemed suspicious and still does. I really do not believe you are who you say you are. If you are so be it but for a person who claims to have no connection to a case, does not know the "family" and has little in the way of explanations, wants to send me something from the road, has my address, wants to interview me about a possible book, dips in and out of character like a chameleon, sends me Email, well I sure gotta wonder. Jeepers.

[freakmagnet]

Research on the internet. Freakmagnet seemed suspicious and still does. I really do not believe you are who you say you are. If you are so be it but for a person who claims to have no connection to a case, does not know the "family" and has little in the way of explanations, wants to send me something from the road, has my address, wants to interview me about a possible book, dips in and out of character like a chameleon, sends me Email, well I sure gotta wonder. Jeepers.

Wow! I'm so mysterious! I bet you wish you were me!!!

My life has been genuinely exciting - and I never had to fake it.

[freakmagnet]

Just a little clarification for the audience out there, Duane contacted me first via e-mail at my private address. He found it in a former thread on this forum.

He then used the domain name listed in the e-mail address to find a website that had personal information about me.

One of the things on the site was my resume. Duane started at the top and called places I have worked in the past, telling them I was involved with a murder in Houston and I needed to contact the police right away. I don't live anywhere near Houston. Duane was talking about this murder.

I e-mailed Duane then - to make him stop calling my old home town and freaking out my old friends.

He has obviously tried to call me and research me further in some other way or he wouldn't know about the phone and address.

You're creeping me out here, Angry Co-Worker. Maybe you should start a thread and start looking for closure in your murdered brother's case?

[2curious]

Talk about shoddy research, a grand jury is convened to determine the validity of potential charges against a person. Therefore, obviously, it is held before charges are made.
"A grand jury is a type of common law jury; responsible for investigating alleged crimes, examining evidence, and issuing indictments. The grand jury can compel witnesses to testify. During the proceeding, the defendant and his or her counsel are generally not present. The grand jury's decision is either "true bill" or "no true bill." Where they exist, grand juries are part of the system of checks and balances that prevents prosecutors from harassing citizens with groundless prosecution. Before a defendant is ever forced to defend himself, the grand jury must find a "true bill" and issue an indictment.

In some jurisdictions that allow grand juries, defendants have the option of testifying before the grand jury. Most jurisdictions have abolished grand juries, replacing them with judges and evidentiary hearings; US jurisdictions are a notable exception."

[Koala]

Thanks 2curious. All the research I did was for Texas. If you or someone else finds some info on that could you paste the URL here. I checked numerous sites but perhaps there is something I missed. If that is the case I need to retract what I said and apologise. But I would like some evidence first. I could not find anything to indicate that a grand jury convenes before charges are laid but that does not mean that is always the case. This would have happened in Houston, Texas.

[Koala]

Well I spent time researching since my last post on many, many sites. The consensus as far as I can determine is that yes, grand juries in Texas can convene for investigative purposes before charges are initially brought by the DA. However, it seems that this is not the norm particularly for a homicide. Matters such as investigations into the Houston Crime Lab, Enron, or secondary suspects would seem to fall into the category of investigation before charges. The idea seems to be that witch hunts are to be discouraged. That is why grand juries usually do not consider investigating before a defendant has been arrested and charged and given the opportunity to waive the grand jury process if they desire. They rarely do apparently. In order to definitively answer the question I guess another step would be to call the DAs office and ask Chuck Rosenberg if they would ever or have ever gone straight to a grand jury before arrest and charges in a single homicide case.

[2curious]

Check out:
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/GG/jlg1.html

Once again it says the grand jury decides if there is sufficient evidence for indictment.

[Koala]

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:-_abFaRyfGoJ:www.texaslre.org/downloads/witnessthis.pdf++%22united+states+and+texas+grand+juries+today%22&hl=en

This explains how it works.

[2curious]

In the Morris case, it must have been the investigative function of the grand jury that was used. I suppose when muder is involved, you don't want to arrest someone unless you feel you have a strong case

[freakmagnet]

Case closed - mystery solved.

You can rest easy now, Duane.

I'm on my way to Tailand this afternoon - want me to do any research for you? Send you a postcard? Look into a brutal murder that is a little closer to you?

Now that would be a good thread, don't you think? We can help you find closure.

[Koala]

In the Morris case, it must have been the investigative function of the grand jury that was used. I suppose when muder is involved, you don't want to arrest someone unless you feel you have a strong case

Do you think a prosecuting District attorney would bring in the daughter of the man accused and a close friend to testify about Mike Morris' and Mary Morris' relationship? That would hardly bolster their case. That is something that would be left to a trial jury. The members of the grand jury would not supoena those 2 people to testify about something like that. They are their to decide if their is sufficient evidence to bring formal charges against an accused.

[2curious]

Since grand jury proceedings are private, you must be going on conjecture and heresay about who gave testimony and what that testimony was. In general, grand jury witnesses are under oath, they are sworn to tell the truth. Why wouldn't the prosecution use this as a fact finding tool to help determine the strength of a case?

[Koala]

They do that on their own outside of a grand jury. They present their findings to a grand jury to try to proceed with judicial process. It is their goal to try to persuade a grand jury to indict. They don't waste a grand jury's time with trying to determine someone's relationship, especially when the parties giving testimony would have a natural bias in favor of the accused. Also, 12 members of a grand jury would not bring in that type of testimony and particularly from those 2 people. Their testimony would not mean much. - unless the testimony was say something like "Yea, my dad regularly beat my mom and I heard him threaten to kill her." That type of scenario would make sense. However, given the vehement support of Katy Morris for her father, I really, really doubt this was the case.

[2curious]

Again, you are assuming you know witnesses and testimony. If you think you do know, you are basing it on heresay. Let me remind you that heresay is not usually admissable in a court of law. Think about this - people don't have to cooperate with the police, if subpeonaed, they have to appear in front of a grand jury. Further, when questioned by police, people are not under oath and are allowed to have counsel present. Witnesses in front of a grand jury ARE under oath and DO NOT have counsel present.

[Koala]

Believe me, I have thought about it. That is why this discussion is taking place on an Unsolved Mysteries forum. Anything is possible, and what you say is true, but in my opinion, the whole scenario makes little sense.

[Koala]

5. What happens at an initial appearance or preliminary hearing? During the preliminary hearing the court will tell you the rights that I have listed earlier under number two. Usually, the Court will also make a determination as to whether or not you have the funds to hire an attorney or if one should be appointed to represent you. Next, the prosecutor, either the County or District Attorney, must present evidence to the Court showing a reasonable suspicion that an offense was committed and that you did it. If the charge is a felony, the case will be reset for there to be a presentation by the District Attorney to the Grand Jury. 6. What is a Grand Jury?

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:kWU9RJ0f4X0J:cobrand.lawinfo.com/common/attydocs/RogerBridgewaterFAQ.pdf+degree+felony+prosecutor+arrest+texas+indictment++grand-jury+%22charges+%22+-delay&hl=en

[Koala]

Maybe this helps.

http://www.texaspress.com/Lawpress/LawMedia/Criminal/CourtProcedure.htm

[freakmagnet]

However, my research indicates that someone is first charged before there is a grand jury. Question - Is someone trying to snow someone? It is not me.

So have we determined that you weren't snowed (although why anyone would try to snow the angry co-worker is beyond my ability to grasp).

[Koala]

The determination is inconclusive. The sources would need to be contacted to cut through any heresay.

I thought you were going to Thailand. I have been inspired by an old friend, Dennis Hillyer and Robert Service (never knew him) to go to Timbuctoo.

Tim and I a hunting went. Came upon three girls in a tent. Since they were three and we were 2, I bucked one and Timbucked 2.

[freakmagnet]

I leave at 5:00 Kelowna time.

You're not free yet.

So, are you gonna miss me when I'm gone for those 20 hours of fly time?

[Koala]

About all I can say is I hope you have a good frequent travellers miles program. First you are in Kelowna, then to Toronto, then back to Kelowna. Now off to Thailand. Saw-at-di-crap. Say hi to the girls on Patpong street and if you get the chance to go to the festival in Surin City the elephants are amazing. Not far away is the Moon river. It is a good little excursion on a motorized dugout canoe. When I went one of my Thai friends fell in the water and hit his hand on the prop. The prop was on a along handle, 10 feet or so that was also used to steer the craft. It actually stalled the motor. Amazingly, he came out of it with a swollen hand and pain but it didn't cut his hand badly. They ate lunch of some kind of eyes. I didn't like to be rude but I just could not eat it so I said I wasn't hungry. Pataya isn't probably what it used to be when it wasn't so big and commercialized. Do they still have the sign in the airport that said no hippies allowed? Have a great time and keep out of trouble.

[freakmagnet]

so wadi ka, ACW.

Want a post card?

[Koala]

Sorry about this. I didn't know you cared. Too late anyway. You will have to make some choices here. You can leave your laptop behind or risk having it confiscated by the RCMP at the Vancouver Airport for analysis. They might detain you and ask why you don't have it. You might miss your flight because of all this. My other concern for you is that if you do not show up for your flight they will put out an APB. I guess you are smart enough to figure it out for yourself. Chock dee little friend. Duane

[freakmagnet]

Ok, I'm working on figuring that one out - no luck so far.

The laptop goes where I do - I got it into Canada - I think I can get it out. I just know they stamped my passport wth an exit date I'm I'm sticking to it.

mi pen li, little buddy.

[freakmagnet]

Since this is becoming my travel log, I'm in Vancouver, through security, and my laptop is still with me. I board in 2 hours for a 14 hour trip to Hong Kong with an 8 hour layover there. If I get some sleep on the flight - which is likely since I've been up since 1:00 in the morning yesterday - I might try to look around Hong Kong.

Canada is not the best place to make this trip from.

[2curious]

I'm terribly confused by this whole thread. I've reread this a couple of times and I don't see anything that amounts to a breakthrough. What's the relevance of whether or not a grand jury was held and who testified? (I guess that was Koala's point) Regardless, no arrests before one and no charges after one, at least not that I'm reading about here. What difference does it make?

[freakmagnet]

I've reread this a couple of times and I don't see anything that amounts to a breakthrough.

Then you DO get the point - there is none!

Greetings from Hong Kong! I'm waiting for my connection flight and just coudn't resist stopping in to say hi. Five more hours and I'm in a hotel for a while - I can hardly wait.

They have European electicity here. I can't power up :-(

[Koala]

I'm terribly confused by this whole thread. I've reread this a couple of times and I don't see anything that amounts to a breakthrough. What's the relevance of whether or not a grand jury was held and who testified? (I guess that was Koala's point) Regardless, no arrests before one and no charges after one, at least not that I'm reading about here. What difference does it make?

If a tree falls in a forest and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?

[freakmagnet]

I like the one about the mime better.

[Koala]

And just how does that one go to illustrate the point?

[freakmagnet]

Equally well, I think.

Let me see, how does it go? If a mime falls in the forest, does anyone really care?

[Koala]

They say a mime is a terrible thing to waste - so, well whoever said that must care.

[freakmagnet]

I think a mime's mother wrote that one.

[Koala]

While you are here, I want you to know that you are right in many ways about what you said about me. (I think you are a sad little man who missed his one chance to be Duane Young and has been reduced in history to "the angry co-worker" title.

As far as Mary's family is concerned, I haven't met them. But if she were my family, I would want you to butt out - or confess. The one thing I know for sure at this point is that you can produce nothing new about this case. You can't tell the lies from the truth.)

I have a pretty good idea about how to tell the lies from the truth. If it just does not add up no matter how one looks at it, I tend to to think it's BS and then try to figure out why. It is not an exact science and that is why I hope that the persons involved would just explain their actions and comments. I have said and done some suspicious things but I can sure explain why without resorting to untruth or deception.

[freakmagnet]

So let's talk about your anger. Where was that directed? Where was it coming from?

[Koala]

Which or what anger? I won't say I was never annoyed or even somewhat angry in my last week of work. You will have to be specific. I was not banging or yelling when I was at Union Carbide. I had absolutely no anger, a little bewildered.

[freakmagnet]

I may have my recollections confused, but didn't you tell me you were angry - maybe seeking anger management help - on something that was not related to Mary?

Since we are investigating, why don't we rule you out, ACW?

[freakmagnet]

Sadly, Duane - I have some appointments today and need to go out for a while. I'll check in later and see how things are going.

[Koala]

I gave my notice to take 4 weeks off 2 weeks before Oct. 6, 2000. I had intended to seek some help for my problem of holding grudges or thinking too much about my reaction to those persons in authority that I had percieved (rightfully) as being unreasonable. I could not decide if this was a normal reaction or I should get some counselling so better to deal with it and make the best of it or whatever would be helpful. I talk too much and I let Linda Thorp and Gayle Hall know about my intention. I told them other things I was going to be doing on my month off. These things happened in the last ten days. -message left on my desk that Linda Thorp had contacted me several times about something. I took it to her and she signed it with a note saying I only left one message and it was there at the same time I saw the message. I informed Mike Keller about it. I thought Mary was passing the buck. It bugged me. I saved the message and compared it to Mary's signature and I have reason to believe it quite possible that Mary did not even write the message.
There was a client who was quite angry with Mary for writing things in her chart that Mary had not even asked. Specifically that she had asked the client about suicidal ideation and found none. Mary got mad at me that the person had seen the chart during a physical. It was not my fault the person saw it. I talked to Mary about it. I advised her why not just tell the truth. I read the chart on my last day and Mary had written in it that she had not asked the client the questions. (the client was very angry about what had been written) You already know about the fake lab report from the last thread. I still have no confirmation that this even happened or it was a setup by my coworkers. I talked to a guy named Mike Mcnab about a message I left for Mary on her keyboard. It fell on the floor and she never saw it at the earliest moment. I wanted to check this out. It seems it did fall on the floor. I was very upset about the alleged fake lab report as that is extremely serious. I was also upset about lack of charting by Mary. I was upset that Mary treated Lana unlike as an RN. She was not allowed to give out any meds. I was, and I had been there less time. I did seek help for my problem. I had an intake at the Hospital of the Mainland. I met a guy named Robert, I explained my thoughts, not just the examples with Mary but others. He said I think that is normal. I called back, I think twice, but they never got back. One point is in that time I was not obsessing about Mary. I was thinking about what was going on with the investigation of the fraud. That is the truth. There is nothing more about anger.

[Koala]

I had found the time card that I was seeking about 2 years later in some papers. That is when I compared the writing and thought maybe Mary had not written the message about Linda Thorp. Mary had meticulous writing features. The message was printed but kind of messy looking. I could not determine much because of that. Mary's signature had the mark of excellent penmanship. The printed message was not so. Having nothing to compare Mary's printing to I could not come to a conclusion. I just thought if someone could write that neat, what about printing? As I said years ago, I got fed up and threw everything out to distance myself and quit obsessing. Regrettably.

[Koala]

Another thing about anger. Yes, I did call Detective Wayne Kuhlman a choice word. Who wouldn't?
I was also anoyed when Mary said that she had flown to New Orleans to give immunizations to a family. It didn't make sense. A waste of money. She said she flew and her family drove. Any clinic can give immunizations. She would not have to fly there to do that. But as was explained to me - big companies - no problem. But the key point is - yes these things bugged me but I do not kill people for that or anything else. Ask my marina. Marina Del Sol in Kemah. I always report stuff to save the enviroment or whatever. I feel some anomosity sometimes from them, but they are still alive. This is the truth. If there has ever been said much more then you have the killer's in your face lying to save whatever sorry butts they have left.

[Koala]

Do you sorry people not get it? Mike Morris is innocent. The reason the phone bill was ever brought up about him was to snare you. You called me at 6:10 AM with the word that you had caught Mary red handed. Did you ever think that the message was really for you? It was designed to screw you up so that you could not use the same defense. He never did it. You did. The phone bill says it all. Remember, some people lie, phone bills don't.
The bit about the ring, you were the first to mention it. You were the first to talk about that the detective in the other Mary Morris case that he said that he thought that it was a hit gone wrong. Yet the detectives say this is not the case. You told me about counsillors that were part of the police telling you that Mary had all kinds of boyfriends and not to blame yourselves for anything. You repeatedly told me it was a suicide. What you said about me is something I know not. Others do though. If you can explain please do.

[Koala]

Everything in the media is all about you. You already know that.

[2curious]

I know I'll probably get an incomprehensible answer, but my curiosity has the best of me. Who is/are the "you" that you refer to in your last postings? If you really know something about the "WHO" in this case, you should come forward.

[Koala]

You may refer to the first post on this thread for a clue.

[2curious]

I think that your writing isn't as clear as you think it is. I read the first post again and it rambles. Names a bunch of people, but unclear as to why they are all named. Again, what's the relevance? I believe that you've gone over this so many times in your mind that its all etched there and you assume that others have the same info etched in their brains. We don't and therefore the connections that you make don't make sense to us.

[Koala]

Perhaps someone else on this forum that read the attatchments in the last thread (shut me up) could answer that for you. I'm too rambly, mixed up, paranoid and delusional as you may recall.

[2curious]

If its not important enough for you to explain personally, then I guess its not that important to me. I'm sorry I missed the other thread. I tried to find it, but couldn't. Just a suggestion, when you make postings you ought to make it so anyone who stumbles upon it can understand what's being said in that thread. Why expend the energy to make these postings, if you're not clearly representing your thoughts to others? You might as well just write in a journal for your own entertainment and edification.

[Koala]

I did just that. Then I posted on the last thread which was yanked. Contact TJ the administrator of sitcoms online. He will have all the information you are looking for. I have no records as my motherboard gave out and when win XP was reinstalled I lost all of my documentation about everything. I do not wish to keep repeating everything over and over. Maybe somebody saved it. You ask the questions on this thread or whatever process you want to use and I am sure you will find it. That is what this forum is about, people asking questions, getting feedback and discussing. Many people on this forum are very knowledgable, insightful and objective. You just have to ask and I am quite sure someone will help you.

[Koala]

I can also suggest that you start your own thread and ask whatever it is you need to know. Be clear in the title and people will respond.

[freakmagnet]

I'm back!

Could you be incorrect about the grand jury? About who appeared? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

[TJ]

I was already asked by one of the detectives of this case to close the other thread as he said it was interferring with it. I'd kindly ask that no other threads be created on this as they will just get out of hand. Please take it to another forum.