All In The Family was NOT a sitcom

[GeeBee]

Although many people consider ALITF to be one of the world's funniest sitcoms, it really wasn't a sitcom at all, at least not according to Caroll O'Connor.


"Well the public knew what we were doing. They knew this was not a sitcom. I don't think (the average guy) was erudite to know that we were doing a satire. But he knew what he was looking at..." Caroll O'Connor talking about All In The Family and Archie Bunker.

Read more:

http://html.local10.com/sh/entertainment/ontheset/entertainment-ontheset-20000417-181405.html

[Ireneparalegal]

link doesn't work...

[GeeBee]

link doesn't work...


Now, it does.

[Ireneparalegal]

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As long as one is consistent and concedes that All In The Family is not a sitcom since Caroll O'Connor said it wasn't. I know this isn't really the place for this subject, so look for more about it on the All In The Family board.

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08-23-2005, 07:12 PM #49
Ireneparalegal
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I will speak on Soloman's behalf (is this okay w/you soloman?)...anyhow, i believe since Carroll made that comment, it doesn't make a difference. IF THE PRODUCERS of the show said it, then it makes a difference...according to Soloman (not me mind you) the producers of GT stated it is NOT A SPIN-OFF. That's the difference between your line of thinking and Soloman's. My opinion is GT is a spin-off due to the character having the same name on Maude / Good Times



I copy/pasted the above cuz I had responded to your last post and decided to also put it here, since you brought the post from Good Times to here also.

[Brian Damage]

All in the Family was certainly a sitcom, topical, but a sitcom none the less.

[GeeBee]

All in the Family was certainly a sitcom, topical, but a sitcom none the less.


Not according to Caroll O'Connor. Although he wasn't the producer, he certainly had first hand knowledge to what the producers had in mind, possessed a lot of creative control, and would certainly have more expertise on it than the average viewer.

I actually heard Caroll O'Connor discuss this in more depth during an interview many years ago. He said that the comedy on All In The Family had to do with the characters' personalities and who they were, not simply the situations that they were in. (Hence, not a sitcom which stand for "situation comedy"). He said that a situation comedy was Laverne and Shirley that relied more on predicaments that the characters found themselves in. He made it clear that it was not a put-down on Laverne and Shirley, it was simply a distinction between two forms of comedy.

So, since Caroll O'Connor says it's not a sitcom, I haven't heard any producer of the show dispute it, and there is a logic to his reasoning, we must concede that AITF is NOT a sitcom.

(Unless, of course, we simply accepted that definitions such as "sitcom" and "spin-off" can be subjective and a matter of opinion, rather than a scientific term that's written stone).

[Ireneparalegal]

Did you check out the link i posted regarding situation comedy by LABOR LAW TALK? Just asking. check it out

[Mikado]

I think it was both a sitcom AND a parody, and why not? So were:
Get Smart, Married with Children and M*A*S*H.... MANY sitcoms have been both, I just gave the best examples

[GeeBee]

I think it was both a sitcom AND a parody, and why not? So were:
Get Smart, Married with Children and M*A*S*H.... MANY sitcoms have been both, I just gave the best examples


BUT...Caroll O'Connor said AITF was NOT a sitcom. Wouldn't he have known best?

[rc.uk]

You can't fully say that it WAS a sitcom or that it WASN'T a sitcom. The comedy came from both the character personalities and the situations they found themselves in (i.e. the plot line of each episode).

The Golden Girls featured comedy derived from both personalities (i.e. Blanche being a sex maniac, Rose being stupid etc) as well as the situations they found themselves in.

I think you'll find that all sitcoms have an element of both types of comedy in them - I think you're going to be hard-pressed to find a show that only has comedy from one or the other.

[Mikado]

true enough

[TV DVD Fan]

Carroll was being modest, its a sitcom, and its hilarious. A show that makes you laugh on purpose is a sitcom, and thats exactly what Carroll and company did every blessed week on the set of All In The Family.



pat

[GeeBee]

You can't fully say that it WAS a sitcom or that it WASN'T a sitcom. The comedy came from both the character personalities and the situations they found themselves in (i.e. the plot line of each episode).

The Golden Girls featured comedy derived from both personalities (i.e. Blanche being a sex maniac, Rose being stupid etc) as well as the situations they found themselves in.

I think you'll find that all sitcoms have an element of both types of comedy in them - I think you're going to be hard-pressed to find a show that only has comedy from one or the other.


You mean, terms like "sitcom" and "spin-off" aren't absolute definitions written in stone?? Wow!

[GeeBee]

Carroll was being modest, its a sitcom, and its hilarious. A show that makes you laugh on purpose is a sitcom, and thats exactly what Carroll and company did every blessed week on the set of All In The Family.



pat


On the contrary, Caroll O'Connor seemed to be saying that All In The Family was a different type of comedy that did not rely on humorous situations, but rather humorous personalities, interactions and issues. He never denied that the show was a comedy; he just said that it wasn't a situation comedy or sitcom for short.

[Brian Damage]

You mean, terms like "sitcom" and "spin-off" aren't absolute definitions written in stone?? Wow!


Touche!

[Ireneparalegal]

Touche!
:cheers: Besides, situation comedy according to the definitions I posted yesterday, that you GeeBee are now using to defend the spin-off debate, it states a situation comedy is situated in usually a home, work, etc. Words to that effect. AITF was situated mostly in the Bunker home. And besides, what Carroll says is HIS OPINION, HIS VIEW. If he was quoted as saying the show is racist, (just a hypothetical statement mind you) would we then say the show is racist based on Carroll's statement? John Amos stated alot of things abt Good Times, which ended up causing his dismissal, does that mean his statements are based on fact or opinion? Maybe the JJ character is crazy, and makes the show look bad, but is that a true statement or something John said in his opinion? We on this forum say alot of things based on our opinion, but not necessarily based on fact. I insert web site info so others could see what this says or what that site says, but if I say something, it's usually my opinion, unless based on fact, then I will say that.

[GeorgeWBushGOP]

They were the first comedy to deal with social issues for certain.


But they did go to some sitcom formulas to get their message across sometimes.

Like we never seen two people locked in a room when a business was closed before.


And they would use some slapstick used as far back as Laurel and Hardy such as Mike and Archie trying to squeeze through a door at the same time. That is always good for a chuckle.

[rusyd]

However you want to classify the show, one thing is for sure-it was great and I still love watching it today. :)

[tdr]

I think it was a "sitcom" as opposed to a domestic comedy, in spite of the fact that much of the humor derived from personalities and their predictable reactions. It's not always easy to divide sitcom from 'domcom,' but Father Knows Best and My Three Sons are the classic example of domestic comedy; they are based on personalities, with each principle having his own room or space reflecting his own, and the comedy comes basically from knowing the characters and how they react and interact. But AITF, like the Lucy comedies, does depend on situations to drive the progressions.

If there is such a thing as a "satcom," AITF is probably the granddaddy. It's a social satire based on exaggerated differences brought close together; sometimes slightly exaggerated, and sometimes much more so, but it represents the different views and ideals of Americans who must live together under 'one roof,' symbolic of one country.

[Ireneparalegal]

I think it was a "sitcom" as opposed to a domestic comedy, in spite of the fact that much of the humor derived from personalities and their predictable reactions. It's not always easy to divide sitcom from 'domcom,' but Father Knows Best and My Three Sons are the classic example of domestic comedy; they are based on personalities, with each principle having his own room or space reflecting his own, and the comedy comes basically from knowing the characters and how they react and interact. But AITF, like the Lucy comedies, does depend on situations to drive the progressions.

If there is such a thing as a "satcom," AITF is probably the granddaddy. It's a social satire based on exaggerated differences brought close together; sometimes slightly exaggerated, and sometimes much more so, but it represents the different views and ideals of Americans who must live together under 'one roof,' symbolic of one country.
well put together post.

[Dr. John Becker]

I think it was a "sitcom" as opposed to a domestic comedy, in spite of the fact that much of the humor derived from personalities and their predictable reactions. It's not always easy to divide sitcom from 'domcom,' but Father Knows Best and My Three Sons are the classic example of domestic comedy; they are based on personalities, with each principle having his own room or space reflecting his own, and the comedy comes basically from knowing the characters and how they react and interact. But AITF, like the Lucy comedies, does depend on situations to drive the progressions.

If there is such a thing as a "satcom," AITF is probably the granddaddy. It's a social satire based on exaggerated differences brought close together; sometimes slightly exaggerated, and sometimes much more so, but it represents the different views and ideals of Americans who must live together under 'one roof,' symbolic of one country.

Well put!

[GeeBee]

I was so surprised the link to what Caroll O'Connor said didn't win this debate for me. So I kind of gave up after that-lol

[Ireneparalegal]

I was so surprised the link to what Caroll O'Connor said didn't win this debate for me. So I kind of gave up after that-lol
well, the fact being that Carroll was one of the stars of the show, he didn't develop it, he didn't create it, he wasn't the producer or director, so his opinion really doesn't make a difference. Now, if he was quoting someone else, say the producer or writer or someone in that capacity, that would be different, but he was giving HIS OPINION.

[GeeBee]

well, the fact being that Carroll was one of the stars of the show, he didn't develop it, he didn't create it, he wasn't the producer or director, so his opinion really doesn't make a difference. Now, if he was quoting someone else, say the producer or writer or someone in that capacity, that would be different, but he was giving HIS OPINION.


I think Caroll would know what the producers and directors had in mind better than the average viewer since he was right there behind the scenes from the beginning. Don't kid yourself; O'Connor was very much a part of the creative process.

[TV Guy]

It doesn't matter what Carroll O'Connor, or even the producers, thought. It fits many people's definition of a sitcom - a comedy based on situations. O'Connor said it wasn't a sitcom because he was trying to separate it from lesser lights in the genre. This is understandable, but it doesn't change what the show is. It reminds me of when actors insist they're not doing television shows, but are instead making "mini movies" each week. I don't buy those silly arguments, either.

As far as O'Connor's creative input - it was far greater after season five, when Norman Lear began to take a less hands-on approach so that he could focus on his other shows. O'Connor actually didn't have an official behind-the-scenes title until "Archie Bunker's Place". And frankly, the more creative control O'Connor had, the less funny the show became. He actually thought that "Archie Bunker's Place" was a good idea, so his opinion of whether or not something qualifies as a sitcom doesn't hold a lot of weight with me.

[GeeBee]

It doesn't matter what Carroll O'Connor, or even the producers, thought. It fits many people's definition of a sitcom - a comedy based on situations. O'Connor said it wasn't a sitcom because he was trying to separate it from lesser lights in the genre. This is understandable, but it doesn't change what the show is. It reminds me of when actors insist they're not doing television shows, but are instead making "mini movies" each week. I don't buy those silly arguments, either.

As far as O'Connor's creative input - it was far greater after season five, when Norman Lear began to take a less hands-on approach so that he could focus on his other shows. O'Connor actually didn't have an official behind-the-scenes title until "Archie Bunker's Place". And frankly, the more creative control O'Connor had, the less funny the show became. He actually thought that "Archie Bunker's Place" was a good idea, so his opinion of whether or not something qualifies as a sitcom doesn't hold a lot of weight with me.


Actually, Caroll O'Connor had creative input early on. In the episode where Archie got trapped in an elevator with a woman who gave birth, the writers wanted to play it strictly for laughs. O'Connor insisted that it be handled in a more sensitive manner and he prevailed.

[Lexx82]

sitcoms...tv shows?? wut da hell is da difference??? its a funny show period

[comedyfreak]

You can't fully say that it WAS a sitcom or that it WASN'T a sitcom. The comedy came from both the character personalities and the situations they found themselves in (i.e. the plot line of each episode).

I think you'll find that all sitcoms have an element of both types of comedy in them - I think you're going to be hard-pressed to find a show that only has comedy from one or the other.
Like for instance, when Edith had that accident with the Cling Peaches. That was a situation.

[ethelmaepotter]

I think AITF was indeed a sitcom, at least in the traditional sense. If you look at it from a production standpoint. The show had jokes and a live audience, so it was certainly intended to be a comedy. It was "situation-driven" because you simply couldn't put the character of Archie Bunker on TV barking all kinds of racial slurs without there be riots all across the country. It was tolerable because of the situation and the context it was placed in. Norman Lear, who produced and created the show, knew that what he had was something very different and daring for television in 1971. I am certain he had some sort of idea the impact the show would have, either positive or negative. Did he put AITF on the air to get America to think or simply because he wanted to be an employed TV producer? We will never know. However, I can tell you that in television, everything is driven by the almighty dollar. He gambled and the gambled paid off.

[Scoobiedoo30]

What do you mean by All In The Family was not a Sitcom

[Mikado]

hmmm I cant believe this thread is still going on...ok, we ALL know AITF is a sitcom, but, ill just put this to bed by saying, "Ok GeeBee, AITF isnt a sitcom, Mickey wasnt a mouse, The Earth isnt a planet, the rose isnt a flower....ok, are you happy now?" :lol:

[Ireneparalegal]

hmmm I cant believe this thread is still going on...ok, we ALL know AITF is a sitcom, but, ill just put this to bed by saying, "Ok GeeBee, AITF isnt a sitcom, Mickey wasnt a mouse, The Earth isnt a planet, the rose isnt a flower....ok, are you happy now?" :lol:
:rofl: :rofl:

you forgot, Tom Cruise is a catholic, George Bush really didn't want to go to war, Saddam is really a nice guy!;)

[Mikado]

:rofl: :rofl:

you forgot, Tom Cruise is a catholic, George Bush really didn't want to go to war, Saddam is really a nice guy!;)
:rotflmao:

[Dr. John Becker]

hmmm I cant believe this thread is still going on...ok, we ALL know AITF is a sitcom, but, ill just put this to bed by saying, "Ok GeeBee, AITF isnt a sitcom, Mickey wasnt a mouse, The Earth isnt a planet, the rose isnt a flower....ok, are you happy now?" :lol:


I think GeeBee is long gone anyway. lol

[Ireneparalegal]

I think GeeBee is long gone anyway. lol
:lol: :lol:

[Mikado]

I think GeeBee is long gone anyway. lol
He was "gone" when he was still here :rolleyes:

[Dr. John Becker]

He was "gone" when he was still here :rolleyes:


true

[manoverfire]

all in the family was a citcome dig bat

[TV Knowledge Fan]

"ALL IN THE FAMILY" was a sitcom. But, in its later years (as Carroll O'Connor began to dominate the production), it featured more dramatic moments. That's why O'Connor claimed it wasn't a "sitcom"- at least, when HE took over and eliminated the live audience. Without the "live responses" after 1975, the show [and "ARCHIE BUNKER'S PLACE"] plays as a "dramedy"....much as "THE GOLDBERGS" had been two decades before. You can tell when the show stopped taping before an audience....when you see more close-ups and different set angles that couldn't have been shown with an audience in attendance.

[TVFactFan]

"ALL IN THE FAMILY" was a sitcom. But, in its later years (as Carroll O'Connor began to dominate the production), it featured more dramatic moments. That's why O'Connor claimed it wasn't a "sitcom"- at least, when HE took over and eliminated the live audience. Without the "live responses" after 1975, the show [and "ARCHIE BUNKER'S PLACE"] plays as a "dramedy"....much as "THE GOLDBERGS" had been two decades before. You can tell when the show stopped taping before an audience....when you see more close-ups and different set angles that couldn't have been shown with an audience in attendance.


I knew something was different about all in the family after 75, and that was the change, no live audience,. I think live audiences give a show ENERGY!!!!

[GeeBee]

I think GeeBee is long gone anyway. lol


GeeBee is always around...

(See what happens when you think, doc?)






HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN! :lol:

[GeeBee]

hmmm I cant believe this thread is still going on...ok, we ALL know AITF is a sitcom, but, ill just put this to bed by saying, "Ok GeeBee, AITF isnt a sitcom, Mickey wasnt a mouse, The Earth isnt a planet, the rose isnt a flower....ok, are you happy now?" :lol:



Well, some would say Pluto isn't really a planet... :)

Mickey actually wasn't a mouse; he was pen and ink. (Didn't you know?)

As for All In The Family not being a sitcom, that was a direct quote from Carroll O'Connor. If you know more about the show than he did, more power to ya, son.

HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN! :p

[GeeBee]

:rofl: :rofl:

you forgot, Tom Cruise is a catholic, George Bush really didn't want to go to war, Saddam is really a nice guy!;)


I know some conservatives who might actually believe that second one...








HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN! :D

[TVFactFan]

GeeBee is always around...

(See what happens when you think, doc?)






HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN! :lol:



Can you come back to the Good Times Board? We missed YOU!!!!!!!!-lol

[Dr. John Becker]

GeeBee is always around...

(See what happens when you think, doc?)






HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN! :lol:

In some strange way, I'm glad you're back.:wave:

[GeorgeWBushGOP]

All in the Family was a sitcom.

Not a traditional one for certain at the time.

But was an original that changed the sitcom world for shock in the decade.


Than in the 80s it went back to sugarsweet bullcrap with the occasional serious episode or issue peppered in every now and then.

[ethelmaepotter]

In later years, Carroll O'Connor's age, declining health and obvious bitterness towards Norman Lear forced him to say things that weren't really true. He seemed to want to take much of the credit for the success of the show. True, Archie Bunker was the central force behind the show, but certainly not all of it.

Since the show's premiere in 1971, entertainment industry analysts to scholars have tried to understand the success of the show. Was it a sitcom? Was it a political message? Some liked the show because they agreed with Archie's beliefs and some liked it because they felt it made conservatives, bigots and the like look stupid. However, I am in the camp of people who believe it was a sitcom, with an edge, that shot it to the Number One rated show on television for five years in a row. Ever since All in the Family, Hollywood has tried to outdo itself with edgy, racy television shows that raise eyebrows and network advertising rates.

Television is a business. While many people who work in the business of television, especially the Hollywood creative crowd, have strong leftist political views, I think the bottom line is money. Whatever it takes to make money, they will do. They took a gamble with AITF, and it paid off in the millions.

[dragster58]

Quite satirical for us in Australia.....LOVED Archie's antics!!!!
RIP Mr. O'Connor.....you are missed!!!

[Steve Carras]

Having replied on an old topic "Edith's Rape" I'd say ALL IN THE FAMILY was a drama with some comedy..